Deseret News | FLDS struggle beyond YFZ Ranch borders

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FLDS struggle beyond YFZ Ranch borders

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Kevin | 12:54 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

Perhaps boys should get married as well when they reach puberty. Then everyone can start families early and get it over with, so by the time they are 30 yrs old they will have a chance to do whatever is they wanted to do as a teenager. The kids will all be grown so atlas FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rita | 1:13 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

zxcvbnm, what is her daily lesson plan?
I am sure the kids will be tested to see how educated they are, compared to other kids the same age.

Jackson | 1:17 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

I have NEVER NEVER EVER! in my life read so much news on such an organized group of liars as are the Flds. A extremely scary group of primitive people who lie lie lie.

Comments continue below

NCHLS | 2:01 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

Wow, Sammy, you are so quick with the polygamy game!

Obama Republican | 2:06 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

Did anyone pull up the link to the captive children? It takes you to a website sellin FLDS clothing. Those are some good looking night gowns!

realitycheck | 2:12 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

I'm still trying to figure out about this 14 yr old girl.

The mother wasn't upset in the video. She didn't seem to mind the girl going to foster care. But the child was crying a lot.

So - is this a little 14 yr old child, or is this a married woman? PICK ONE.

If she's married, why is she acting like such a little child?

And was the mother not that upset in the video because she figures the girl's married and shouldn't be living at home anymore anyway?

Or was the mom not upset because she's pretty much had all her emotions drained out of her after so many years of abuse in the FLDS?

Anyway, the girl has no business putting up such a scene. She wanted to get married, the mother wanted her married, so they should all live with it. Get a job, raise a family - quit leeching off mom.

If she can't support herself, then I guess foster care is the best place for her, or actually a women's shelter - she's married and doesn't need to be a foster child. She's not a kid anymore - she's a married woman.

re soccorrmom 08 11:09am | 2:23 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

Zavenda Young is not married to Edsun Jessop. They just live together and make children. Most of the women in FLDS aren't married - they just sleep with one man (their boyfriend) while their boyfriend sleeps around. Not really that unusual, except that the girlfriends all know about each other and the other babies!!

The problem is Warren Jeffs does the ceremonies. His father died, and he told everyone he's the new prophet. Now, unless somehow speaking to God is genetic, and can be handed down from father to son, then Jeffs has never spoken to God, and he's not really a prophet.

So it's entirely possible (and actually extremely likely) that all these women sleeping with some guy with 8 other "wives" are actually just the guy's girlfriends and baby-machines.

It's very likely that the men have been sinning a lot by sleeping around so much. If they aren't really married because the guy that married them is a fake - then they have broken a bunch of sacriments and don't even know it.

Wow - I would hate to be one of them come judgement day - it could get really ugly.... I bet they're scared..

re Joey 9:00am | 11:00 a.m | 2:33 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

In some states, foster care gives a child a 50% chance of being physically or sexually abused. But that's okay with you I know. "hard times" but at least they get choices regarding their future... Ok, so why do 75% of all foster care kids end up on the street or in prison (Dr. Phil)? Doesn't sound like much choice to me...must have something to do with attachment issues due to not having their biological parents around who have a genetic interest in their wellbeing.

But granted, okay, growing up in the FLDS itself is abuse, because you turn out a "drone." Well, FLDS look at the people doing their 9-5 jobs, all dressed alike, all watching the same TV shows, all lauging at the same stuff, and they see drones. So, it's all a matter of perspective. So save the "drone" business. We're all drones for our government, no matter how much you think your free, you're brainwashed...into voting for a bogus two party system, to rallying behind the torturing mothers and children, talk about zombies.

Interloper | 3:00 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

Cue the violins! Not. These articles meant to create sympathy for white supremacist polygamists who abuse children, sexually and otherwise, are perverse. Their effect is the opposite of what is intended for those who are well-informed.

It would be interesting to have some corroboration of dubious claims made in this piece. For decades, the FLDS used the school system in Short Creek for featherbedding, ie., employing often unqualified persons as teachers and administrators to acquire money for the organization. Is Tammy Jessop one of those 'teachers'? Since when do benign tumors cause seizures? How does Barbara explain away the other eight daughters Merril Jessop has 'married' to the 'prophet,' usually while they were underaged? Edson Jessop has other 'wives' and children back in Short Creek. How are they being supported?

BTW, where is Merril Jessop?

common sense | 3:08 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

I never realized how pro polygamy arizona and utah are. If its true, please come get FLDS!

re Cooperation | 3:08 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

re Cooperation 12:51pm

wow - I guess you just answered zxcvbnm's 10:46am post. With distinction, I might add....

tigerlily -

did you really just say that if you look at the picture you will see how "it could be fake"? Didn't you say earlier that it was fake? Pick one, girl. Can't be both.

Kind of like the 14 yr old girl. Either she's a little child, crying for her mother, or she's a married woman that has no business acting like that - and no business still living at home with her parents. Most people move out when they get married.... Pick one.

zxcvbnm | 3:22 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

CPS has already tested the kids, they are for the most part at or above grade level.
No need to submit a lesson plan for homeschooling but I am sure CPS will monitor the situation.

To:Obama Republican | 3:32 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

I did...that's funny they are trying to make some money out of a website that was set up to help "save" their children!!! Ha ha ha ha ha...super overpriced! But might make a good Halloween costume!!! Will have to learn to do the hair...but I have time to practice until the end of October!

Joey | 3:47 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

"Most people move out when they get married.... Pick one"

------

If, she got married or even just betrothed, she would have moved across the street to live with some sister wives. Probably would not have had sex until 17.

Big difference moving across the street with people you know, who are part of your culture, and being plunged into the worst foster care system in the country, to live with total strangers, who don't understand her upbringing or beliefs.

Ray and Iris | 3:51 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

We want to thank the paper for this article these people continue to be abused by the powers of Texas.
Now is the time to let all of the innocent folks return to the homes of their choice worship the way they see fit,raise their children the way they want to and leave them alone.
Surely Texas has bigger fish to fry.

Re: zxcvbnm | 3:55 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

The woman helping Barbera [sic] is a certified school teacher."

Certified or certifiable? There is a difference.

realitycheck | 4:22 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

re 2:33pm

and so now you believe Dr Phil? Talk about a drone...

We don't all work 9-5 nor watch the same tv shows. Otherwise we wouldn't have 100's of channels. I work as a mountain rescue K-9 handler. I've never even seen an FLDS person out here. I know people all over the country that have such a variety of jobs I couldn't even count them if I tried. And vry few are 9-5 desk jobs. And no one I have ever spoken to has ever met an FLDS person.

I know many people that went through the foster care system. I know some who were abused. None of them are criminals nor do they now in turn abuse their children. I was abused as a child and I turned out fine, but after I finished school, I went out on my own.

My point is you can get past foster care and create a good life for yourself. But if you are FLDS, you have no chance for a different life.

You don't see these people out in jobs around the country. They remain in their little world, doomed to that life forever.

I'll take foster care.

realitycheck | 4:27 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

re Joey 3:47pm

So.. she should move in with the guy's other girlfriends? Isn't that kind of messed up? Are they so immature they can't get by on their own?

Either she's a child and the mother was a poor excuse of a parent by pimping her out at 12 yrs old, or she's an adult and shouldn't be living at home anyway. And moving in with the guy's other girlfriends is just nasty.

So yes, she should go into"the worst foster care system in the country" because at least she'll stand a chance of doing something with her life, instead of sitting around waiting to get pregnant. (Even though that's exactly what she wants to do - sit around and wait to get pregnant - since that's her job.)

zxcvbnm | 4:34 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

Ask the Author of this article to verify the womans teacher certification. CPS has a terrible reputation for verifying certificates.

x | 4:59 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

does everyone see flds people as a circus? The fact is the media reads to many news articles and looks at the big picture. All the women are brain washed, men are rapist, and children are victims of abuse. This may true, but wake up everyone, it doesn't only happen in the flds, but all across our country. What i don't get is,jeffs is sitting in jail for crimes that someone else hasn't even been convicted of. And as for the texas raid,some where a long the line a judge or supreme court will throw out all the evidence against wanting to be used. There was no proper search warrant, no one is willing to confess, and all the children were returned before the investigation was done.
If this happened to any other religion cult or united states citizen, they would exercise their constitutional rights. So polygamy is against the law, but isn't breaking into people's homes with out a search warrant? Besides the texas compound had many homes, not just one, so who is at fault?
Maybe people need to research how flds folks live and what their religion is actually about. Instead of thinking they are crazy.

tigerlily | 5:00 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

to the picture is fake. did i expect any respect from this board? of course not because if you can't respect the flds people and their religion you don't deserve any respect yourself.

Round em up! | 5:23 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

Re X

It's much easier to round em up by the herds than to go out and find them one by one. It's up to people to report the abuse. Flds have got a way with murder far too long.

where.. | 5:43 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

...is Merrill? You know, the children's father? Why is he in hiding? Does he not care about his kids? Or is it just that he has so many, that he can't keep track of them?

I have no sympathy for the mother. She eluded caseworkers and then sat silent in court. Maybe she's realizing her actions aren't helping. Allowing her 12-year-old child to marry a middle-aged man doesn't make her look good either.

Gal50 | 6:09 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

There's a history of polygamist men not providing adequately for their families. Many of the FLDS men are hard-working, but it's too difficult to support several wives and children. When the Mormons were polygamists, women would rent out rooms in their homes to strangers in order to make money. A book about Mormon polygamy, "Thy 27th Wife" details this practice. In Arizona, Utah and Bountiful, the government has provided various kinds of assistance. There have been news reports hinting that some of this assistance was misused.

When it comes to this Jessop girl recently removed again by CPS, it seems that her "husband" Warren Jeffs hasn't thought to provide for her as his behavior has landed him in jail. The misappropriation of UEP funds makes me wonder if there isn't a bit of a pyramid scheme going on within the church. It seems many children and adults at the bottom rungs work tough physical jobs for long hours and the fruits of the labor go to the church where the leadership can reallocate it. It seems there are secret funds as the indicted men were able to make bail even though people on the ranch didn't hold paying jobs.

zxcvbnm | 6:22 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

Merril is sitting in Mexico with a cold drink .....Sure isn't illegal since he isn't indited.

Cats | 6:36 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

Tiger Lily's assertion that the pictures are "fake" is an excellent example of the state of denial the FLDS live in. You must all understand that their way of life is under attack here and for good reason. But, they don't know any other way and it's hard for them. They don't know what to do except to lash out.

Warren Jeffs has publicly proclaimed, ON TAPE, that he is NOT a prophet, he NEVER was a prophet and he is one of the MOST WICKED men of this dispensation. I have seen this tape and there is NO QUESTION that it is GENTUINE. He has also attempted suicide in prison. The man clearly is a megalomaniac and has lived his life as a fraud. Now he is so distraught over having to confront himself with his own crimes and the unrighteous dominion he has exerted over these pathetic people, he can't live with himself. I'm sure he's terrified to meet his maker.

I hope these people will finally get out of denial and face the truth. But, in order to get away from this perverted lifestyle, they need help. That's why this state intervention is necessary.

zxcvbnm | 6:59 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

Someone better call the law. The boy is building a chicken coup in the city. The coup is in direct violation of the city anti chicken ordinance......before long the boy will corner the egg market in his neighborhood and the state won't be able to collect its egg taxes.
Darn those flds....breeding chicken criminals at such a young age......quick ....hand Swinton a cell phone and lets put a stop to this blatant violation of our laws.
First the mothers trains her son to violate the anti chicken ordinance then who knows.......the lemonade stand goes up.
Get CPS over there fast before the girl gets involved in illegal lemonade activity.

zxcvbnm | 7:14 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

Look at the picture of the boy and his sister with the illegal chicken coup. Absolute of the early training of flds women to be pasive and subserviant.
Was the girl involved in the engineering and design of the coop......heck no. She cowers in the background watching and perhaps cheering on her dominant brother.
Darn.....she will be doomed to a life of only looking on while the flds men graduate from chicken coops to larger structures.
Save the girl now from a life of obvious second class status.......she needs the training to build her own chicken coops.

Sally | 7:15 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

I am SCREAMING and very sick of these FLDS perverts!!! Get them all and throw them ALL in jail. We do not need child molesters getting away with this stinking crime and longer.

zxcvbnm | 8:25 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

Stop the chicken coop building early and you will get at the root of the alleged perversion.
Chicken raiseing in the city must stop.
The flds avoids the egg tax by eating farm eggs with no farm, they will surely get rid of extra male chickens (roosters) to increase the availability of hens.
I know this is only a picture of a chicken coop but we all know that there are chickens somewhere.
A coop means chickens and a desire for chickens.
Where is PETA when they are needed..........quick, call the law.

Phillip | 9:21 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

When I see the FLDS men women and children with their clean cut appearance, their basic way of life, I cant help admiring them. Then I look at the vedios of the fat, ugly social worker women taking away the children, I get a feeling of disgust. I say let them be. ... Leave them with their faith, and their unique way of life. I see nothing wrong here. I see no wailing children running to the outsiders with fear to get away. This is not a the way an abused child reacts to an opprotunity to leave, the abuse and life affecting harm is in being taken from the only peacefull home they ever have known. This is a wrongfull action by Texas gov., and must be made right. This is their religon and it should be respected. Maby our lawmakers should do some research about what child abuse is, and is not. Look at the children and look at outside children to compare with. These people know something that we dont!!! Their clean crimefree towns are their own proof of who is doing something right!

zxcvbnm | 10:30 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008

Phillip.........oh you poor misguided flds supporter. Didn't you see the photos.....the photos of the child building the illegal chicken coop.

These aren't wholesome children...these are children groomed to disobey the Texas anti chicken raiseing laws from birth. Children manipulated by their parents to raise chickens within an urban environment.
It is such a shame that the flds has brainwashed you as well as their own children to support illegal chicken raiseing statutes.
First the coop...then the chickens..then the slaughter of unproductive chickens. These children are taught in a systematic fashion to become chicken outlaws from birth........why are you so blind?

Rita | 12:11 a.m. Aug. 26, 2008

x | 4:59 p.m.,
What is the address of the FLDS ranch?
Do each of the houses have a different address, as apartments or condo's do?
Or are they all the same?
This would determine if it was one household or several households in the compound.
Also, did anyone hear the social worker ask the girl about living with her aunt on the tape?

Hmm | 12:49 a.m. Aug. 26, 2008

zxcvbnm quiet a few of the kids are at or below grade level not above get your facts straight your the one that loves the FLDS did you like how Barbara thru her daughter under the bus

stunned | 1:14 a.m. Aug. 26, 2008

I'm shocked surely this is not the America I know. Polygamists ?At first I thought they were Moslems.

David | 6:16 a.m. Aug. 26, 2008

While child abuse clearly needs to be handled, the cries of "polygamy is illegal" are ridiculous. Once upon a time, not long ago, blacks marrying whites was also illegal as were gay relationships. That has since changed. If consents ADULTS want to be in a polygamous union, that is their business and certainly superior to non-consenting adultery...just look at the John Edwards situation.

zxcvbnm | 6:37 a.m. Aug. 26, 2008

RE Hmmm: I am refering to CPS reports from their own psycologist concerning the childrens educational and social development. CPS information.....CPS psycologist......darn, don't you believe the CPS.
As far as Barbara "threw her daughter under the buss" ......they home school..there are no buss rides unless you include the transportation provided by CPS.
I know that the misinformation and information provided by CPS can get confusing but it's ok.....just learn to sift thru the info and remain objective.
One more time.......CPS reported that the education level of the children was for the most part at or above grade level. Of course Texas officials are compareing the flds kids to Texas kids....so perhaps with such a barometer there may be confusion.

JK | 7:04 a.m. Aug. 26, 2008

Did anyone else not realize that Tammy is one of Barbara's sister wives??? If anyone had read Carolyn Jessop's book, than they could realize that. I wonder how Carolyn feels about her daughter Betty living with Barbara?

R | 7:47 a.m. Aug. 26, 2008

Rita:

//So, if not your theory doesn't work does it? //

Nonsense - that's an apples and oranges comparison. Are members of the Tennessee legislature on record stating they want to implement legislation to make life difficult for a religious group?

Anonymous | 7:50 a.m. Aug. 26, 2008

//zxcvbnm quiet a few of the kids are at or below grade level not above get your facts straight//

Can you name any? As for education, you need to work on your English grammar. For example, you need to learn about the use of apostrophes, and how to avoid run-on sentences. Then, maybe you'll have some credibilty when talking about others' education levels.

//And no one I have ever spoken to has ever met an FLDS person. //

So? Considering how small their numbers are, I'm curious what that's supposed to prove. The FLDS do interact with people outside the sect. Many of the women of YFZ got jobs after the raid.

zxcvbnm | 10:15 a.m. Aug. 26, 2008

Geez Anonymous..........I'll just keep up with the run on sentences ......they seem to distract you from the subject that is being discussed. Go for the misspelling too....
I am so happy that you can look up the CPS report on the education level of the kids.
With a 40% drop out rate in Texas and the obvious substandard ability of CPS to read documents are you going to subject those kids to such a failed system?
'''''''''''' here,,,,,,, just a few extra commas and apostrophes........ Lets' see if you can stay focused on the facts.

realitycheck | 10:51 a.m. Aug. 26, 2008

zxcvbnm - I cannot even tell you how annoying your post get when you act childish.

R | 1:45 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008

I did address the subject. Apparently reading comprehension is an area you need to work on as well, since you couldn't answer my question. I'll repeat it for you: Can you name any of the kids that fell below grade level?

David | 2:14 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008

Realitycheck, I cannot even tell you how annoying your posts get when you act childish, emotional, and irrational. But then, such occurs daily.

realitycheck | 2:18 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008

re - R 1:45pm

yes - their names were mostly Jessop and Barlow.

Cal | 2:26 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008

Re: Phillip...Clean cut? So is the Devil. They say the devil is a nice looking guy. If you ask me, it is clean cut devils. No one is pulling the wool over my eyes by there sheep's clothing, and that goes towards ALL FLDS and the cowardly men. You FLDS are nothing but control freaks!

John Pack Lambert | 2:31 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008

To the 6:43 commentator,
Well, if a reporter did get Ms. Jeffs to give an off the record statement on the issue than you would not know about it, at least if the reporter had any integrity.

cz | 2:32 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008

I spent 8 years in a cult that was very different from FLDS. We were not married early; everone in the higher levels of leadership could "pick and choose", and the men and women under them had no choice in the matter. If the women became pregnant (in one year, 1/3 of the women in the leadership program did), they were ordered to have an abortion. The moral level (hyper-moral, as the FLDS claims to be...or amoral, as was the group that I was with) does not determine whether a group is a healthy spiritual environment or not. The unhealthy situation that is shared by my group, FLDS, and by so many groups that are labeled "cults" is this: the presence of a human leader that exerts total authority over the decisions and belief systems of the members. The freedom of the members of the FLDS, children or adults, will never be accomplished through governmental intervention or legislation; if it happens, it will be accomplished through Jesus Christ and it will be a work of the heart. No man will ever take His place, and no government can ever legislate freedom that only comes from His presence in a life.

John Pack Lambert | 2:37 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008

I think Magdalena's response was abtly put after SLC Gal.
There may be polygamists who support all their wives, but there is quite a bit of evidence that many polygamists men provide little support to their wives.
The numbers of people in Hillale recieving forms of welfare is one illustration of this.

John Pack Lambert | 2:46 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008

To tigerlily,
I have major issues with your comment. What does it mean "most people in Utah are related to someone who is a polygamist"?
Most people in Utah have 0 living polygamist relatives. If you include relatives they ever knew, it is still 0 for most, considering that most people in Utah were born after 1975 (in fact, that may be way too early).
If you change it to "Most people in Utah have Polygamists ancestors" we have a statement that might be correct. However, considering everything, I doubt it. With the various influxes of new converts from the southern United States in the 1890s through to the recent influxes of people from Brazil, It is probably a very close most, if it is a most at all.

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