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A quick reference guide to the '08 football season
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Games to skip? | 8:08 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008
A true football fan skips no games because a true football fan knows a game
against Weber St. or Northern Iowa is better than any basketball or baseball
game.
WMD | 8:49 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008
"Is it just me, or does this sound like the argument for war in Iraq?"
- Brad Rock
Not exactly because one of the main reasons for the war - weapons of mass destruction - was never found. The big difference will be BYU unleashing its weapons of mass destruction on their opponents. Yewt fan thinks his team will beat BYU at LES North this season? To quote Mr. T, "I pity the fool!"
Not exactly because one of the main reasons for the war - weapons of mass destruction - was never found. The big difference will be BYU unleashing its weapons of mass destruction on their opponents. Yewt fan thinks his team will beat BYU at LES North this season? To quote Mr. T, "I pity the fool!"
Anonymous | 9:11 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008
Games to skip-Rock's reading audience is not true BYU or Utah fans-it is
the general readership of the newspaper as a whole.
Comments continue below
East River Cat | 10:13 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008
Thanks Brad - but I must confess to being amused at all the speculation of
Bronco being tempted by "high profile" programs to go elsewhere.
Minnesota? Are you serious? Syracuse? Arizona? Come on. BYU has more football tradition than any of those programs. Or let me phrase it differently - in the past 30 years BYU has consistently been more relevant than any of them on the national scene. Other than one brief run by Arizona in the early 90s they've all been pretty poor. To use your own phrasing - BYU owns a higher profile in college football than any of the three, BCS affilitations not withstanding.
As for Iowa or UW - really lateral moves for Bronco.
Minnesota? Are you serious? Syracuse? Arizona? Come on. BYU has more football tradition than any of those programs. Or let me phrase it differently - in the past 30 years BYU has consistently been more relevant than any of them on the national scene. Other than one brief run by Arizona in the early 90s they've all been pretty poor. To use your own phrasing - BYU owns a higher profile in college football than any of the three, BCS affilitations not withstanding.
As for Iowa or UW - really lateral moves for Bronco.
East River Cat | 10:14 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008
More importantly you just don't seem to get Bronco - the dude's values
and sense of mission about BYU run deep. He's able to apply his life
philosophy in running the BYU program in ways that he never could at another
program.
Even if REAL profile programs like Penn St or Va Tech were to come knocking Bronco would be unlikely to go. The sense is very strong that he finds the challenge and opportunity of making BYU a Top 10 national power more compelling than anything he could do elsewhere.
So if Bronco leaves BYU it's either going to be (a) to retire (which could happen sooner than we think) or (b) for a true heavyweight like Michigan.
That you even consider the "profiles" of Minnesota and Syracuse tempting is pretty telling.
Even if REAL profile programs like Penn St or Va Tech were to come knocking Bronco would be unlikely to go. The sense is very strong that he finds the challenge and opportunity of making BYU a Top 10 national power more compelling than anything he could do elsewhere.
So if Bronco leaves BYU it's either going to be (a) to retire (which could happen sooner than we think) or (b) for a true heavyweight like Michigan.
That you even consider the "profiles" of Minnesota and Syracuse tempting is pretty telling.
Northern Iowa 17 | 10:17 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008
BYU 21
Anonymous | 10:27 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008
How come other high profile jobs don't come knocking on Kyle
Whittingham's door?
haha | 12:01 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
northern iowa state community college 17????? what happened to this superb
defense? If they can do that its going to be scary for the "quest"
when you play ucla or utah.
RE East River Cat | 12:20 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
Remember....it has and is and always will be about one thing....the
ALMIGHTY!$(dollar)$
As much as you think Bronco's sense of "mission" values, tradition etc run deep, I promise you that his sense of duty to provide as much for his family as he can runs infinately deeper. As it should.. Is the saying "Family First" or "Football First"?
Though the aforementioned schools lack tradition they do not lack the money that could lure Bronco away. And who would blame him?
The head coaching position at BYU is NOT (as some believe) a calling. It is a job. And comparitavely speaking a relatively low paying job compared to what he could earn in a BCS conference (see Urban Meyer)
And Yes I am a Utah fan... However I have nothing but respect admiration (and a little envy!) for Bronco as a man, a fellow Mormon, and a leader. He is great. As great as they come. And I hope that someday he serves as Mission President to one of my sons. Good luck cougs but as always...follow the Prophet and GO UTES!!
As much as you think Bronco's sense of "mission" values, tradition etc run deep, I promise you that his sense of duty to provide as much for his family as he can runs infinately deeper. As it should.. Is the saying "Family First" or "Football First"?
Though the aforementioned schools lack tradition they do not lack the money that could lure Bronco away. And who would blame him?
The head coaching position at BYU is NOT (as some believe) a calling. It is a job. And comparitavely speaking a relatively low paying job compared to what he could earn in a BCS conference (see Urban Meyer)
And Yes I am a Utah fan... However I have nothing but respect admiration (and a little envy!) for Bronco as a man, a fellow Mormon, and a leader. He is great. As great as they come. And I hope that someday he serves as Mission President to one of my sons. Good luck cougs but as always...follow the Prophet and GO UTES!!
Watching Coaches | 12:40 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
Never seen Bronco under pressure? You're kidding, right? How about that
first season? Or that fact that his team has a habit of dropping two early
games?
Whittingham fired if the team is down this year? Good grief, I hope not. They expect to get a better replacement? Kinda doubt it.
Whittingham fired if the team is down this year? Good grief, I hope not. They expect to get a better replacement? Kinda doubt it.
davidutefan | 1:44 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
To Watching Coaches: While Bronco has done an outstanding job rebuilding a
program in shambles, the true test of coaching skill comes from real adversity,
not just losing early games. That's bad season preparation I would like to
see if he can win 9 games with the number of injuries in skill positions that
Utah had last year. I don't mean that as an insult, just one more vote of
confidence for Whit and his resilience. I wish the cougs well this season, it
will just make our win in Nov. sweeter
Buckeye Ute | 2:35 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
East River Cat I find it funny that you think that BYU is more relevant than
Minnesota or Iowa. Both are in the Big Ten and would pay much more than the
400K or so that BYU is paying Bronco and Minnesota has a brand new on campus
stadium that will be one of the nicest in the country. Iowa has been a good mid
level team in the Big Ten for the past 15 - 20 years ending the season in the
top ten 4 times. Plus if he could win the Big Ten he would play in a BCS bowl
and possible a national championship, not the Las Vegas bowl. Of course he is
not a good enough coach to win the Big Ten as long as Jim Tressel is at Ohio
State. Bronco isn't even good enough to hold Tressel's clip board.
Hayden Fry | 3:21 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
Iowa has be good for a lot longer than 15 - 20 years. Hayden Fry had them
rolloing for a long time. As for Washington being a lateral move, give me a
break Seattle VS. Provo Pac 10 VS. MTN West. I am a total homer but come on.
Jimmy | 3:24 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
Hey East River Cat, wake up.
If you can win in a REAL CONFERENCE, you go to a REAL BOWL GAME. Every year. You can actually play for the NC in the PAC 10, Big Ten, etc. You cannot do that in the MWC.
But hey, I guess the Vegas bowl tops that.
If you can win in a REAL CONFERENCE, you go to a REAL BOWL GAME. Every year. You can actually play for the NC in the PAC 10, Big Ten, etc. You cannot do that in the MWC.
But hey, I guess the Vegas bowl tops that.
Re: davidutefan | 3:34 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
Typical ewete fan, always making excuses instead of rising above the challenges.
Did you not hear that BYU lost Tafuna and Tialiavea due to injuries in fall
camp? Both were picked to start the season before they went down? Did you not
hear that Vakapuna, BYU's best known running back was injured at the end of
'06 and BYU didn't know if he'd be well enough to start again?
did you not know that Hall suffered a shoulder separation at least as comparable
in severity to the one Johnson suffered?
Did you hear BYU make excuses? NO, in fact, BYU was proud that they had athletes who could step it up and make plays. Did you not hear that BYU also started 4 walk-ons in the secondary and ended up with a top 10 pass defense?!!!
Excuses are for losers. Winners overcome the tribulations and trials and get the job done. Oh, that's right, BYU beat Utah even with comparable injuries and without excuse.
I just hope that Utah has no injuries this season so that when BYU beats them again, there will be NO EXCUSES.
Did you hear BYU make excuses? NO, in fact, BYU was proud that they had athletes who could step it up and make plays. Did you not hear that BYU also started 4 walk-ons in the secondary and ended up with a top 10 pass defense?!!!
Excuses are for losers. Winners overcome the tribulations and trials and get the job done. Oh, that's right, BYU beat Utah even with comparable injuries and without excuse.
I just hope that Utah has no injuries this season so that when BYU beats them again, there will be NO EXCUSES.
Re: Re: davidutefan | 5:30 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
Have you heard the phrase "overly intense?"
Take it down a few notches. Maybe "davidutefan" had reason to be responded to, but at least his post was civil and tried to credit the other team to some degree. I used to think there was some truth to BYU fans claiming Utah fans were first and foremost BYU haters. Throughout the past few years, though, I've learned hate is spewed on both sides in equal amounts.
As far as your comment about plugging in players to replace starters. Maybe you'll change your tune if Max Hall goes down and Austin Collie begins playing the QB position. Yeah, if that happens I'm sure we won't hear any excuses about injuries will we? I guess you left all of your excuses with the Crowton era.
Take it down a few notches. Maybe "davidutefan" had reason to be responded to, but at least his post was civil and tried to credit the other team to some degree. I used to think there was some truth to BYU fans claiming Utah fans were first and foremost BYU haters. Throughout the past few years, though, I've learned hate is spewed on both sides in equal amounts.
As far as your comment about plugging in players to replace starters. Maybe you'll change your tune if Max Hall goes down and Austin Collie begins playing the QB position. Yeah, if that happens I'm sure we won't hear any excuses about injuries will we? I guess you left all of your excuses with the Crowton era.
Anonymous | 6:36 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
I'm sure you meant "IF" BYU beats them (Utah) again, there will
be no excuses.
Big 10 | 6:48 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
Buckeye ute follows 2 over-rated teams. The Buckeye bowl record is joke and the
3rd place utes are a legend in their own mind. As a private university, BYU
doesn't have to publish Bronco's salary so if you know how much it is,
you must be his banker.
Injuries and Excuses | 8:39 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
Can injuries be used as an excuse? Absolutely not...if the Utes lose, but
DEFINITELY if the cougs fall short.
Let's review a little statistical analysis of last season. Both Johnson and Hall suffered Grade 3 shoulder separations, but Johnson played with that separation for NINE games whereas Hall only had to soldier through THREE.
Prior to Hall's injury, he averaged 312.1 passing yds/game, but only 242.3 afterward. That's drop-off of almost 70 yds/game. Hall's post-injury production came against Utah, SDSU, and UCLA.
If we looked at Johnson's 1st 3 games following HIS injury, he averaged 237.7 passing yds/game -- about 4.6 yds/game fewer than Hall -- against Utah St, Louisville, and SDSU.
Interestingly, while SDSU was each team's only common opponent POST-injury, the 2 QB's performances were very similar. Hall passed for 227 yds, while Johnson threw for 220.
Hall won 3 of 3 games following his injury. Johnson won 8 of 9. One can only speculate how Hall would have performed should he have been called to take the field for another SIX!
Injuries were DEFINITELY a factor in the Utes' performance last year. I believe they really brought it together, and demonstrated a lot of resiliency.
Let's review a little statistical analysis of last season. Both Johnson and Hall suffered Grade 3 shoulder separations, but Johnson played with that separation for NINE games whereas Hall only had to soldier through THREE.
Prior to Hall's injury, he averaged 312.1 passing yds/game, but only 242.3 afterward. That's drop-off of almost 70 yds/game. Hall's post-injury production came against Utah, SDSU, and UCLA.
If we looked at Johnson's 1st 3 games following HIS injury, he averaged 237.7 passing yds/game -- about 4.6 yds/game fewer than Hall -- against Utah St, Louisville, and SDSU.
Interestingly, while SDSU was each team's only common opponent POST-injury, the 2 QB's performances were very similar. Hall passed for 227 yds, while Johnson threw for 220.
Hall won 3 of 3 games following his injury. Johnson won 8 of 9. One can only speculate how Hall would have performed should he have been called to take the field for another SIX!
Injuries were DEFINITELY a factor in the Utes' performance last year. I believe they really brought it together, and demonstrated a lot of resiliency.
Buckeye Ute | 8:42 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
Hey Big 10. Lets see Ohio State has played in 5 BCS bowls in 7 years and won
three including a national championship. What has BYU done in those seven
years? Two wins in the Las Vegas bowl and a loss in the Vegas bowl and a loss
in the Liberty bowl. Yeah, BYU has so much more to brag about. Bronco's
salary was published in the Des. News when he was hired and Kyle got more at the
U.
ramper | 9:19 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
Re: Buckeye Ute
"Mendenhall could not even carry Tressel's clipboard?"
After getting steamrolled in the last two championship games I think Tressel threw his clipboard away. OSU was outplayed, out-coached, and obviously overrated. Better luck this year.
"Mendenhall could not even carry Tressel's clipboard?"
After getting steamrolled in the last two championship games I think Tressel threw his clipboard away. OSU was outplayed, out-coached, and obviously overrated. Better luck this year.
Coug 4 | 9:20 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
Max Hall the greatest thing since Botox? Sounds like sour grape to me.
Fully Invested | 10:31 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
Injuries and Excuses, you're not to bright. Johnson sat out some of those
games, and tried to make his come-back against UNLV.(yes there's that hated
game again) Buckeye Ute, you're right there with him. Another D-news
article came out two years after Bronco was hired reporting that he signed an
extansion, and they "speculated" that it was in the neighborhood of
900,000+. I find it interesting that you diss Bronco, and yet Urban was an MWC
coach before he was an SEC coach. And I would argue that Tressel couldn't
carry Urban's clipboard. Get my point.
Re: Fully Invested | 4:53 a.m. Aug. 25, 2008
I'm a cougar fan. "Injuries and Excuses" had brought up some
pretty good points that I had not thought of before. The arguements were lucid
and well supported. You hadn't brought up any points, then called Injuries
and Excuses "not to bright", which I find ironic since it's
"not TOO bright" rather than "not TO bright", and,
you're arguements attacked the writer rather than refute the author's
position.
-BostonCoug
-BostonCoug
RIch | 8:40 a.m. Aug. 25, 2008
Utah looks good, and Coach Whit has done a good job recruiting, I would argue
that he has done a better job than Mendenhall.
This season could be good for both schools, but I am excited just to watch it go down.
BYU is overly confident and has their goals set on the BCS, that is a bad move. In Utah's 2004 BCS bust Utah did not talk about the BCS until after they beat BYU. I know that there was hype, but that didn't even start until mid season.
We have not seen BYU play this year. I know that they have a good offense, but they are not deep enough to start talking trash before they even take the field.
Utah will be good this year, and as a Utah fan I would love to see them run the table. I will be there hoping and cheering with them, but to have my eyes set on the BCS would be ignorant. Even if Utah or BYU runs the table they are not guaranteed anything. The BCS is a faulty system, so why do we care so much about it?
This season could be good for both schools, but I am excited just to watch it go down.
BYU is overly confident and has their goals set on the BCS, that is a bad move. In Utah's 2004 BCS bust Utah did not talk about the BCS until after they beat BYU. I know that there was hype, but that didn't even start until mid season.
We have not seen BYU play this year. I know that they have a good offense, but they are not deep enough to start talking trash before they even take the field.
Utah will be good this year, and as a Utah fan I would love to see them run the table. I will be there hoping and cheering with them, but to have my eyes set on the BCS would be ignorant. Even if Utah or BYU runs the table they are not guaranteed anything. The BCS is a faulty system, so why do we care so much about it?
Buckeye Ute | 9:45 a.m. Aug. 25, 2008
Hey fully invested I did not see the article about Bronco's raise. That
still makes him underpaid in the the Big Ten and SEC. Also I didn't
mention Urban who I think is a great coach and one of the few couches in the
country that is in Tressel's league, but he still is behind Tressel in wins
and yes Ohio State lost the last 2 national championship games, but they played
in two consecutive title games that is a rare feat and one that most teams never
get a chance to do. When BYU gets a BCS bowl you can start talking, but with
BYU's 9-16-1 bowl record I don't think they would win that game.
Re: Injuries and Excuses | 10:27 a.m. Aug. 25, 2008
Interesting analysis, but injuries still don't explain Utah's loss to
UNLV. Brian Johnson didn't give up 27 points and make a pedestrian running
back look like an all-American.
I don't recall Utah's defense being decimated by injuries in the UCLA game.
And what happened to the Utah offense that scored
44 vs UCLA
0 vs UNLV
34 vs Utah St.
44 vs Louisville
in consecutive weeks?
I don't recall Utah's defense being decimated by injuries in the UCLA game.
And what happened to the Utah offense that scored
44 vs UCLA
0 vs UNLV
34 vs Utah St.
44 vs Louisville
in consecutive weeks?
Fully Invested | 12:22 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008
Still behind Tressel? What are you talking about? Tressel's team got worked
by Urban's Florida team in the NC game. I would say he got out-coached. But
that still doesn't mean that Urban is better; maybe more of an equal. That
wasn't my point anyway. You're judging coaches based on where they
coach and I don't think you can do that. Bagging on MWC coaches means that
you are also bagging on the likes of Urban who happens to be doing quit well
right now.
And yes as a BYU fan I am definitely disappointed in their bowl record. Based on Bronco's 2-1 bowl record I can only hope that we are seeing the start of a trend, but only time will tell. And, by the way, how big of you to put your Ohio St. team up against BYU in any category. Yes, they are a program with better tradition and better teams. That's not even an argument. What BYU fans are excited about is the sudden rise in the program. Something that we all hope takes the program to places it has never been. But, once again, only time will tell.
And yes as a BYU fan I am definitely disappointed in their bowl record. Based on Bronco's 2-1 bowl record I can only hope that we are seeing the start of a trend, but only time will tell. And, by the way, how big of you to put your Ohio St. team up against BYU in any category. Yes, they are a program with better tradition and better teams. That's not even an argument. What BYU fans are excited about is the sudden rise in the program. Something that we all hope takes the program to places it has never been. But, once again, only time will tell.
CrimsonUte | 12:42 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008
I don't see Bronco going anywhere. I think he wants to be the next LaVell
Edwards.
Re:RIch | 1:39 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008
I haven't seen any BYU players actually talking "trash" about
their own offense, only BYU fans.
TJ | 3:19 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008
What is Bronco's non conference record as head coach? Including bowl games
Re: TJ | 4:04 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008
Utah coach Kyle Whittingham had a swift and firm response, "Win a Mountain
West Conference championship." League championships are an annual goal for
the Utes and something Whittingham believes is attainable every season.
So, how many conference titles has Kyle won? What is Kyle's best conference finish? What is Bronco's worst conference finish? What is Kyle's overall and head-to-head record vs Bronco?
So, how many conference titles has Kyle won? What is Kyle's best conference finish? What is Bronco's worst conference finish? What is Kyle's overall and head-to-head record vs Bronco?
TJ | 4:20 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008
To Re: TJ
I really was not trying to say who is a better coach and trying to compare the 2 coaches. I was simply asking what Bronco's non conference record was. I was not trying to say that Kyle is better than Bronco or vice versa. You read my comment the wrong way. The way you read it was not the way I intended and I am sorry for not stating more clearly. And I wasn't asking anything about conference championships or conference records at all. But if you must know I believe that Kyle has 0 conference titles. Kyle's best finish is 3rd. Bronco's worst finish was his first year when I think he was 3rd or 4th and I think Kyle is 1-2 head to head with Bronco but I really don't care about that. What I wanted to know is what Bronco's record was as a head coach when looking only at the games when he played non conference teams. I made no reference to Kyle or to the MWC. My question was very simple and you over thought it and over complicated it.
I really was not trying to say who is a better coach and trying to compare the 2 coaches. I was simply asking what Bronco's non conference record was. I was not trying to say that Kyle is better than Bronco or vice versa. You read my comment the wrong way. The way you read it was not the way I intended and I am sorry for not stating more clearly. And I wasn't asking anything about conference championships or conference records at all. But if you must know I believe that Kyle has 0 conference titles. Kyle's best finish is 3rd. Bronco's worst finish was his first year when I think he was 3rd or 4th and I think Kyle is 1-2 head to head with Bronco but I really don't care about that. What I wanted to know is what Bronco's record was as a head coach when looking only at the games when he played non conference teams. I made no reference to Kyle or to the MWC. My question was very simple and you over thought it and over complicated it.
SOCAL1 | 4:43 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008
Rich.....You are right on with your analysis and comments.......
Anonymous | 11:28 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008
Guys like East River Cat and the clown who responded with 'roid rage to
davidutefan are just two more reasons to think the worst of Cougar fans.
Ya'll talk about having a "classy" program, but you wouldn't
know it from those two.
BYU has a better tradion than Syracuse? You need a history lesson, man.
BYU has a better tradion than Syracuse? You need a history lesson, man.
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