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Pignanelli & Webb: Obama lovefest could backfire in Utah
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Flummoxed in Zion | 1:34 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008
The effect Obama will have will be a reflection of how well informed Utah voters
become. There are a small number well informed on the issues, but the average
Utah voter is of the "low information" variety, often relying on (now
outdated) stereotypes of party to guide their voting.
Utah may have escaped the worst of the current economic downturn. But Utahns certainly suffer the national middle class dilemma that a single income is now inadequate to support a family and that the financial squeeze continues to get worse. 30 years ago being middle class wasn't so economically painful.
If more average voters (regardless of proclaimed party affiliation) really understood the depths and the profound effects of tax policies they may begin to think differently. They might even vote Democratic.
David Leonhardt beautifully explains Obama's approach to tax policy and economics. He also makes it very clear (contrary to Republican ads) that taxes would not be raised for those whose annual income is under $ 250,000 and under that level the tax cut would be larger than McCain offers. Go to nytimes.com and in the search box type David Leonhardt. Well worth the read.
Utah may have escaped the worst of the current economic downturn. But Utahns certainly suffer the national middle class dilemma that a single income is now inadequate to support a family and that the financial squeeze continues to get worse. 30 years ago being middle class wasn't so economically painful.
If more average voters (regardless of proclaimed party affiliation) really understood the depths and the profound effects of tax policies they may begin to think differently. They might even vote Democratic.
David Leonhardt beautifully explains Obama's approach to tax policy and economics. He also makes it very clear (contrary to Republican ads) that taxes would not be raised for those whose annual income is under $ 250,000 and under that level the tax cut would be larger than McCain offers. Go to nytimes.com and in the search box type David Leonhardt. Well worth the read.
Not Convinved | 6:35 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008
Obama is an empty suit. Take away the rhetoric, and there is no substance.
Comments continue below
Dave | 8:00 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008
One of the reasons Utah has not suffered from the economic slow-down as badly
as other states like Ohio is our right to work law. Obama Nancy and Harry have
a plan to correct that if they get the power.
JMT | 8:11 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008
I am both mystified and entertained by Mr Flummoxed in Utah.
Two quite interesting points. First, Utahns are dumb or they would vote for Obama. Second, "Utah may have escaped the worst of the current economic downturn."
Would his second point provide evidence that Republican policies outperform Democratic policies?
Informed about Obama. Like his economic proposals are right up there with Marx, complete redistribution of wealth programs? His tax increases would be felt all the way down to people making $30k a year. He has no plan to go after the AMT as well, and wants to increase the payroll taxes.
Obamanomics is quite scarey indeed. If only we could get the Democrats to inform themselves on it, as Mr Flummoxed in Zion advocates.
Two quite interesting points. First, Utahns are dumb or they would vote for Obama. Second, "Utah may have escaped the worst of the current economic downturn."
Would his second point provide evidence that Republican policies outperform Democratic policies?
Informed about Obama. Like his economic proposals are right up there with Marx, complete redistribution of wealth programs? His tax increases would be felt all the way down to people making $30k a year. He has no plan to go after the AMT as well, and wants to increase the payroll taxes.
Obamanomics is quite scarey indeed. If only we could get the Democrats to inform themselves on it, as Mr Flummoxed in Zion advocates.
Elkman | 8:42 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008
Obama needs to get elected in order to save the United States. Bush has sold us
down the river. We can't even defend our own borders. Bush has spent
trillions fighting an illegal war. Why should anybody want to vote for McCain
and have another four years of these Republican clowns. Besides, the national
GOP hates Mormons.
evensteven | 9:29 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008
Obama may get a healthy bounce from the convention. But, my informal poll
around the water cooler shows a marked decline in enthusiasm for him. Not to
the point of crossing over, yet, but a slide from definitely voting for him to
maybe not voting at all. When asked, the change is attributed to his
"flip-flops" as he moves to the center. They like him out on the left
fringe. Not so much in the middle.
This convention will be all about moving Obama and his "he talks real good for a black guy" VP closer to the center. Which will further alienate his base. Biden, for all his 36 years in the Senate is a vauous and empty as is the rookie Obama. This lipstick convention won't change that.
I fully expect Obama's speech to be great. At some point, however, we need to see some deeds. The real test will be after the Republican convention when the gloves come off. Obama seems very comfortable speechifying in a scripted envrironment. The Saddleback performance showed how weak he is without a script. And Biden is, well, Biden. That scar on his tongue is from his own foot.
This convention will be all about moving Obama and his "he talks real good for a black guy" VP closer to the center. Which will further alienate his base. Biden, for all his 36 years in the Senate is a vauous and empty as is the rookie Obama. This lipstick convention won't change that.
I fully expect Obama's speech to be great. At some point, however, we need to see some deeds. The real test will be after the Republican convention when the gloves come off. Obama seems very comfortable speechifying in a scripted envrironment. The Saddleback performance showed how weak he is without a script. And Biden is, well, Biden. That scar on his tongue is from his own foot.
Karl | 9:37 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008
It will take huge sums of money to begin fixing America again.
Without every single person paying more money, including small business, big business, we will never dig out of the hole we are in.
That is unless you want to keep borrowing from China. We are losing our country to China as it is, they are buying up the stock market and they are already major holders in many companys.
Big government, over spending, for years now, needs to be fixed, sooner than later.
Open up the bank books, we will all be paying more very soon. It is the only way.
What are the other opptions?
Without every single person paying more money, including small business, big business, we will never dig out of the hole we are in.
That is unless you want to keep borrowing from China. We are losing our country to China as it is, they are buying up the stock market and they are already major holders in many companys.
Big government, over spending, for years now, needs to be fixed, sooner than later.
Open up the bank books, we will all be paying more very soon. It is the only way.
What are the other opptions?
Oh Please | 12:29 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
Hey Lavar, I'm waiting to puke next week when McCain and his trophy wife
stand under the "Family Values" banner at the GOP convention. Mrs.
McCain I and her abandoned children will be nowhere to be seen. The hypocrisy is
breathtaking.
Sam | 2:01 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
I'm very informed about Obama... that's why I will vote against him. I
love my country... enough said.
Bob in line | 3:17 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
One note about McCain and his "trophy" wife is that they have been
together closing in on 40 years. At what point do we say he made a mistake as a
young man but has spent almost as long with this one woman as I have been alive.
In fact, he has been with Cindy longer than the average Utahn has been alive.
Weak smear by our Democratic brethren.
It should be noted that Cindy's family passed onto her a large number of rental units, somewhere between 6-9. McCain is a US Senator not a property manager so he was not aware of how many properties are being managed. FEC those are her properties, not his.
Another weak smear by our Democratic brethren.
AOL is doing one of those informal polls. Really interesting that McCain is getting over 175,000 votes, Obama around 84,000 with McCain leading in every state in the Union. Very unscientific but with over quarter-million responding eye opening.
The Clintons are going to dominate day one and two of the Democrat convention. Obama get's the third day. Then GOP convention starts within 72hours. The bounce will go to McCain.
Bidens a millstone!
Who will McCain nominate?
Weak smear by our Democratic brethren.
It should be noted that Cindy's family passed onto her a large number of rental units, somewhere between 6-9. McCain is a US Senator not a property manager so he was not aware of how many properties are being managed. FEC those are her properties, not his.
Another weak smear by our Democratic brethren.
AOL is doing one of those informal polls. Really interesting that McCain is getting over 175,000 votes, Obama around 84,000 with McCain leading in every state in the Union. Very unscientific but with over quarter-million responding eye opening.
The Clintons are going to dominate day one and two of the Democrat convention. Obama get's the third day. Then GOP convention starts within 72hours. The bounce will go to McCain.
Bidens a millstone!
Who will McCain nominate?
Not So Common Sense | 4:10 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
Re: to Sam 2:01
I am very well informed about Obama and McCain myself.
That's why I will vote for Obama.
I love my country.
Enough said.
I am very well informed about Obama and McCain myself.
That's why I will vote for Obama.
I love my country.
Enough said.
Grover | 5:31 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
Better an empty suit than an empty head in the White House. Time to change
partners. Utah has looked in the mainstream far too long. Can you feel the
pendulum swinging?
Somewhat cynical | 7:53 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
I can't support either McCain or Obama. This nation is in dire need of a
viable third-party candidate, and I don't mean Ralph Nader.
There's got to be somebody out there....
There's got to be somebody out there....
Lewt | 9:35 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008
Dear Cynical: Vote for Cheney. He's plenty cynical - and open to the
suggestion that he be dictator.
I think the word "Lovefest" is a deliberately chosen word meant to sneer at the Obama campaign. And, "backfire"? What's that supposed to mean? That he goes from 32% to 31%? Trust me, whatever happens in Denver won't make anyone think, "Oh gosh. I'm worried that we went too far and may have lost Utah."
I think the word "Lovefest" is a deliberately chosen word meant to sneer at the Obama campaign. And, "backfire"? What's that supposed to mean? That he goes from 32% to 31%? Trust me, whatever happens in Denver won't make anyone think, "Oh gosh. I'm worried that we went too far and may have lost Utah."
Who cares what Utah thinks | 8:59 a.m. Aug. 25, 2008
Fact is, Obama doesn't need Utah, and would alienate most of the country if
he tried to please the majority of voters here. This is a silly column. How
'bout some discussion of issues, not meaningless gossip?
Anonymous | 1:25 p.m. Aug. 25, 2008
It�s interesting that some people say that Obama has no
experience. Yet, over the past eight years we have had
�W� the worst ever in the white house.
It�s kind of scary to think that this country has been
marginalized by an alcoholic C-student coke head from Texas.
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