Deseret News | Lowering legal drinking age an absurd idea

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Jay Evensen: Lowering legal drinking age an absurd idea

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TreeLimbsForEveryone | 8:11 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

College students are far more responsible than the general population as everyone knows. So why not lower the legal drinking age to 12 to better groom future college students for their proposed new-found role of responsible drinking?

Nic in Germany | 8:19 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

So, I read a handful of counter-studies against the study about underage drinking. Perhaps a better comparison would be a real-life one. Let's compare the youth and young adults of all other developed countries, who start drinking at either 16 or 18, but many start as young as 13.

While there still are those that abuse alcohol, there is still a substantially lower rate of alcoholics and drunk driving than the US.

First of all, binge drinking is a part of the learning process. In Europe, it starts under the supervision of parents. Many of the parents require the children to wake up early and do chores the day after drinking while the child is hangover.

Then, by the time the kids reach 16 or 17, it is socially very uncool to over-drink. So, peer pressure adds to the learning process of responsible drinking. Then, by the time the children are 18 and allowed to drive, drinking alcohol has lost the novelty that it still holds for their American peers, and it just isn't an issue.

The perspective of these nations: America is backwards. People shouldn't learn to drink after they learn to drive. They start driving at 18.

leoblt | 8:22 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

if you lower the drinking age to 12 yrs. the
consumtion of alcohol would not change one glass
you want the truth see your local distributors

Comments continue below

Should be discussed | 8:23 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

You can buy a gun, defend the country in war, vote for elected officials running the country at 18. But you can't but a beer or glass of wine at dinner? Why should a 20 year old get a ticket for purchasing a beer, but they are trusted to vote, drive a motorized vehicle, and gun? If you look at a list of International legal drinking ages, you'll find that the U.S. along with a handful of Muslim countries like Pakistan and the United Arab Emirates are the only ones in which the drinking age is 21.

What needs to change is the culture in America associated with alcohol in general. The real problem is the binge drinking by young college age Americans. There needs to be a cultural change. You don't see 19 year old Europeans in frat houses getting black out drunk and vomiting out of balconies. Their culture is one of temperance, where as we Americans tend to supersize and consume everything beyond what is reasonable.

John | 8:36 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

if I'm old enough to fight for my country at 18 then i'm old enough to drink.

At issue | 8:43 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

Where does one find the greatest risk for alcoholism? It is found among children of alcoholics and from those that abstain completely in the household. It seems that neither teaches responsible behavior with regards to drinking. The problem with the 21 age limit, is that it prohibits parents from teaching their children how to drink responsibly, if the person choses to do so, in a safe home atmosphere.

Meth/speed were issues in the 1930's and it seems that laws prohibiting the use has only increased the problem. Prohibition is what gave strength and money to mafia the parent of modern gangs.

This allows discussion, and discussion only. If you chose not to drink or teach your children what responsible behavior is in drinking, that is fine but please allow me the legal right to teach my offspring responsible behavior.

David | 8:47 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

Perhaps if young soldiers could unwind with a can of beer after fighting in Iraq, we would have lower rates of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Instead, we tell them they are old enough to fight, but too young to have any sort of "release" from the horrors they have witnessed as have soldiers for thousands of years. But then, many here have never experienced a good Irish wake.

Young ADULTS | 8:51 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

Binge drinking isn't something that is turned on or off by a numeric age. Or drunk driving accidents. There will likely always be people who do that, no matter what rules are there. Why isn't the focus on teaching moderation instead of just "no, no, no" - obviously this isn't working for abstinence either. I think the youth today are certainly more open of contraceptives than they were generations before and that's done more than teaching abstinence. They are young ADULTS and should be treated that way. They will make choices, good and bad. No amount of rules will change that. Europeans are far better than Americans when it comes to actually dealing with the problems of alcohol instead of treating their young adults like children.

pedobear | 8:52 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

please just keep the age of consent equal to or above the drinking age.
thanks.

Sanity | 9:02 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

Accidents go up:
THERE ARE THREE TYPES OF LIES:
*Lies
*Damn Lies
*Statistics

Accidents go up as responsibility goes down. You cannot legislate responsibility without opression. You are either responsible or you aren't. Quit givivg up the choice to act responsibly!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dan Lenarz | 9:00 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

Keep the age at 21. It is only through prohibitionist laws like this that a healthy disregard for the law is born and maintained. When a citizen breaks one law breaking another becomes easier.

evensteven | 9:05 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

It is clear that some posters should have gone to English class sober and learned about reading comprehension and inference. By specifically calling the age requirement into question the Initiative implies that the minimum age should be changed. This is plainly illustrated by the challenge to the federal highway funds penalty for lowering the age.

Changing the legal drinking age will not reduce consumption or binging. Rather, it will increase since it will be perceived as acceptable and the alcohol will be more available. Does anyone really believe that the party school rankings play no role in deciding where to go to college, or that they result in a change in campus enforcement?

I am old enough to remember when WYO had a lower drinking age than Utah and many college kids made the weekend pilgrimage to Evanston to pick up booze and get smashed. At least when they couldn't find a pliable 21 y.o. to buy for them here.

Binge drinking is cultural. Lowering the drinking age will not reduce its frequency. These college president's know it. They just want to change the drinking age and remove the enforcement responsibility, liability and cost from their own shoulders.

Brian | 9:10 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

I am 20. So to recap your opinion...

You feel I am responsible enough to vote.
You feel I am responsible enough to get married.
You feel I am responsible enough to serve in the military and make life-or-death decisions.
You feel I am responsible enough to be tried as an adult and be put in prison or even be executed in certain cases.

BUT...you do not think I can handle drinking alcohol?

No-where anywhere else in our legal system does such a disparity in legal rights exist. The "effect" of lowering the drinking age is irrelevant. This is about rights as an adult. If you don't agree, then you shouldn't be sending 20-year-olds to war.

uncannygunman | 9:10 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

As to alcohol, this column is fair enough. If the Amethyst people want a dialogue, they have to be prepared to listen to people who support keeping the drinking age the same, or even raising it.

I don't like the use of tobacco as a rhetorical bogeyman though. At least the column recognizes that tobacco and alcohol are very different--I don't think there is any such thing as binge smoking, and if there is it just does not have the same dramatic effects as binge drinking. But I for one would not reject a proposal to bring Utah law into line with the vast majority of the country by lowering the age of tobacco use from 19 to 18. Also, the idea that there is no such thing as responsible tobacco use is ridiculous and represents a categorical rejection of adult autonomy.

I think that we need to remember that all of these laws are only a part of our overall goal to transition the citizenry from childhood to adulthood (or what passes for adulthood in Utah). I'm not sure that treating any particular birthday as a "magic day" is the best or only way to achieve that goal.

Alan | 9:13 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

Maybe we should we raise the drinking age to 24. Wouldn't that "protect" even more people and make our society safer and healthier? Or, perhaps we should embrace reality and lower the drinking age to 15 or 16? Or maybe lower the age to equate to the age of consent for each state (e.g., 14 in New Mexico, but 17 in Texas and 18 in most states). Maybe the federal government should take its nose out of the states' business and let them decide? In any event, I believe it is highly inconsistent to not lower it to 18 if we are going to draft 18 year olds into military service and treat 18 year olds as legal adults in a court of law. That is so hypocritical to burden them with adulthood but not give the right to have a beer. Sure, more of them will drink and certainly more will die from it (and probably kill others in DUI accidents). But we shouldn't make laws based on fear and protectionism. We need some balance and consistency.

TM | 9:15 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

I started drinking at 16 and I think many other have done the same. Legal drinking age makes no difference for young folks that want to drink. The travesty here is that the people signing this document appear not to want to be responsible for enforcing the existing laws.

Liability | 9:18 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

As other posters have stated, the issue here isn't to "have a discussion". It's to avoid liability.

Universities and colleges are, to a certain degree, liable when one of their students gets hurt on their property. And a LOT of binge drinking occurs in - guess where - university dorms.

So, when little Johnny 18-year old gets plastered in his dorm during a kegger and ends up hurting himself (e.g., falling off a balcony) or, worse yet, commits a criminal act (there's a reason that alcohol and sexual assault cases are closely intertwined in colleges), Johnny's parents - or even Johnny himself - can actually sue the university for failing to protect their child from alcohol.

And, based on precedent, they will probably win.

Also, as others have pointed out, binge drinking is not the realm of the under 21 crowd - it occurs well beyond 21 years of age.

Perhaps there are arguments to lower the drinking age to 18 - the rights and responsibilities of an adult among them. That can be debated. But let's not pretend for one minute that those pushing this have noble intentions - they're just trying to cover themselves.

Scott | 9:20 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

I was in New Mexico awhile back and they have drive-thru liquor stores. Some folks from Ct heard that and flipped out! Oh my, you cant do that, it encourages people to drink and drive! No, it saved the trip out of the car.
Point is, think before reacting. Many people wont open their minds to this debate.
Live and let live. Oh no you can't do that, because God knows YOU know best.

An example | 9:20 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

The UK and Ireland have legal drinking ages of 18, and not only is weekly binge drinking among teens and young adults a way of life, but they have more alcoholics than any other countries in western Europe who have higher drinking ages. They have a pub culture, where they go out drinking at least weekly, usually more often, and their binging rates are at an alltime sky high. They're trying to figure out how to lower it as we speak. I have many friends that live in those countries, and I go there often. I've even lived in Ireland myself, and I've seen it all first hand.

Lowering the drinking age is only going to make the problem worse. Kids aren't binging because it's illegal, they're binging because they think it's fun. But if it's more easily accessible, more kids will try it.

Pete | 9:23 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

No voting, credit cards, legal contracts, marriage, tobacco, military serivce, guns, or anything until the age of 21. If you're not mature enough to consume alcohol, then ALL the rest is simply out of the question. Kids live at home until they're 30 anyway. Make the legal age 21.

Scott | 9:24 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

Japan has alcohol in vending machines all over the place. They trust thier young tonot be idiots, and it works. In America, one idiot kid of a loudmouthed parent makes laws.
Dont believe me? Go buy some ephedra.

Anonymous | 9:31 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

Haha, get with the times. It is ridiculous to have our drinking age at 21. I am 25 and have attended university in both the U.S. and in Europe. I can honestly say that the latter is a much more responsible atmosphere for drinking (although I am not sure that the drinking age has everything to do with it). It is about nailing down an age for adult-hood (which is 18 for everything BUT drinking). Ask your boys to go to war for you old man, but slap them on the hands when they go for a beer at 19. What a joke.

JR | 9:35 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

What we need is to follow the german model. Their drinking age for beer and wine is 16, and 18 for spirits. Their legal driving age is 18. If people know how to drink responsibly several years before they can drive, we would not have so many drinking related driving accidents. If we have a two year window before the legal driving age, people will have had time to know how to drink, and to know how alcohol affects them personally. There is an idea in the US that alcohol is a forbidden substance which adds to the binge drinking problem. Regardless, a limit on alcohol consumption for persons 21 years or older is ridiculous and the highest in the world. I have been drinking from a young age in the home of my parents, a few sips of beer or wine, or when i was a little older, about 17, a beer or glass of wine with dinner. To me, alcohol is not that important. I love to drink (i study enology) but rarely get drunk and do not find that binge drinking is that cool, as opposed to many of my friends that didn't grow up drinking

Gerry F | 9:37 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

One reason the drinking age is 21 is because legal age drinkers will purchase alcohol for their younger friends, 18-20. So, if the legal age is 18, then you will see an upsurge in alcohol abuse from 16-17 year olds. Easy to verify. That's what happened in Michigan years ago when the limit was 18, you had a lot of alcohol abuse in HIGH SCHOOL

Jan | 9:52 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

People like to look at Europe as a reason to lower the drinking age. What they don't realize, is that traffic violations that result in drinking fatalities are much lower, because if you get caught drinking and driving, you have your license taken away for YEARS, and can get thrown in jail for a good long while for violations. Here any alcoholic that drinks and drives and is caught, can just pick up, move to another state, and continue to put their life as well as innocent peoples lives at risk. I knew a few people who did that. (I am no longer friends with these people.) There need to be MUCH harsher consequences for drinking and driving here, without exceptions for the rich and/or famous. People who use a vehicle to kill should rot in jail like any other murderer. I do not agree with lowering the drinking age, no how, no way. Drinking illegally is one thing, marketing alcohol to teenagers creates alcoholics. That is really why these college presidents want the age lowered.... $$$ and to make life easier for themselves.

TD | 9:57 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

Deseret News = Mormon Church = no credibility whatsoever on advocating, or opposing, an open debate on a reasonable issue of public discourse. This is an important issue that deserves debate. I have lived around the globe, and nowhere have I seen more binge drinking problems than among American youth. Maybe that is what these college administrators see and want to try to address. The Deseret News should stick to issues it might have some credibility on-- like what fruit is proper in a jello salad.

MetricWrench | 9:59 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

The college presidents should just be honest and tell us they are tired of having to deal with illegal behavior on their campuses so that want to make what was illegal, legal. Then they will be off the hook. If a 19 year old wants to ruin their college career and therefore their life by drinking irresponsibly and not studying then so be it. All the more opportunities will be available for my children.

Anonymous | 10:04 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

I subscribe to the Bill Cosby philosophy that all children are brain damaged. To even think that someone who's 18 will make a responsible choice on the matter is absurd. I've seen today's 18 year-olds. They're worse at responsibility and moderation than any I've seen. Pop culture has rotted their minds and given them an illusion of power/ability, which has fostered a culture of disrespect and excess. And such people are supposed to be able to make responsible decisions before the real world is given a chance to beat that nonsense out of them?! Please!

And the points about the military here are just ridiculous. There's no comparison. In the military you can't even go to the bathroom without permission. The military is more supervised than any other environment out there. There are rules galore, and if you don't follow them, the punishments are severe. And guess who the supervisors and rulemakers are...I'll give you a hint, they're not 18!

In sum...yeah...let's give the brain dead, spoiled, over-indulged, disrespectful, irresponsible the legal right to increase DUI fatalities...great idea. No, we should raise the drinking age to 30, after people have been forced to live with responsibilities for a good while.

Frank | 10:07 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

If you can vote, smoke, and DIE for your country then you should be able to drink at 18 too.

Prohibition does not work! Lower the age and the "taboo" will fade.

Marc | 10:08 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

It is ridiculous to pretend that the government cares about taking care of the health of the 18-21 demographic by denying them access to alcohol while simultaneously allowing them to serve in the military, work on oil rigs, etc. The 21 drinking law is prohibition applied to a specific demographic. Shouldn't we outlaw alcohol for people over 65 too? They might fall down and get hurt.

This country tried prohibition and it was an abject failure. Pandering to the moralistic minority and criminalizing socially accepted behavior will always fail. Moreover, it creates a climate of distrust for authority and disrespect for the law.

WHS | 10:13 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

1. Prohibition has never worked, and will never work. The exact reason this group wants to lower the age is to reduce "binge" drinking, which they have observed often occurs with "underage" drinkers. Without the "taboo," there will be less reason to indulge in binge drinking, thus ameliorating the potential damage caused by drinking.

2. Old enough to kill, but not old enough to legally drink? Give me a break.

EUROMADE | 10:25 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

I was born and raised in Europe (Bosnia). There was no drinking age but you had to be 18 to drive. It was a big thril to take my Dad's car while I had no license. A much more dangerous activity! I would start removing drinking age slowly drop it to 20, then to 18....over the years "underage" drinking craze would loose its lust and disapear. Budweiser would not like this but in the end, young adult would not be pressed to drink fast and illegaly, so the whole thing would issue would be solved. Finally, did the prohibition stop people from drinking?

dcc | 10:38 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

I've never understood why 18-21 yr olds took this. You are being denied rights because you are not an "adult" but are subject to the reponsibilities of being declared an "adult". It's outright discrimination. They should be screaming at the government.

Your arguments about binge drinking or drunk driving are beside the point. Either make "adulthood" 21 or give 18 yr olds total rights as an adult.

Alice | 10:53 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

I raised 4 boys I know it isn't easy to keep them on the straight and narrow line, but it is up to the parents to impress on them right from wrong then you can do no more. At eighteen my boys were in the service protecting our country but they were not allowed to drink. We have to make up our mines are they considered adults or not they can't even vote why not if anyone should have a say our boys over in Iraq should. Ask them their opinion.

Even across the board | 11:01 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

I can understand why Govt agencies and groups such as MADD are up in arms about this issue but here is my take. You need to make it straight across the board, either say okay you have to be 21 to vote, drink, smoke, gamble, serve your country, go to prison as an adult/be sentenced to death or say you have to be 18 to do all the above. Its absolutely ridiculous that we put these responsibilities on young adults at the age of 18 but then tell them you know but you can't go enjoy a beer responsibly if you want (and more than likely they are going to go enjoy regardless of what the law says)...all I think most people want is a little consistency because honestly having 18 year olds drink should be the least worries of this country.

To Evensteven | 11:47 a.m. Aug. 24, 2008

You may not realize it, but you proved the point for changing the age of consent for drinking with your WY example. The students would binge drink because they had to be sneaky and cross state borders, as opposed to regular and boring access to alcohol. Had Utah allowed for alcohol, heck Brigham Young even owned a distillery, the novelty would no longer be at issue and there would be no need to "chase" alcohol. Along with that, I say that we implement the same types of laws that Europe has for DUI's. You lose your license, without negotiation since you proved yourself irresponsible. No multiple chances permitted, you are caught, you lose your license. Naw, we would rather waste our time demanding adults not be permitted to drink, while ignoring the legal drinking age adults that are repeat offenders.

Anonymous | 12:11 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008

dcc,

18-21 yr olds don't do anything about the obvious inconsistency because... guess what? They show themselves as a group to be irresponsible and apathetic about important issues that should concern those who claim to be "adults"!

Their apathy just proves that we should raise the legal age of emancipation to 21.

woah | 12:22 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008

my underage friends and i would love to go have a couple beers at the bars then ride our bicycles home to sugarhouse, because us 20 year olds understand the gas crisis. dont coddle us. we know not to drink and drive.

i was a valet for a while, and only the 30 and 40 year olds would come out sloshed and i would hand them the keys to their bimmers and they would swerve off. most of the younger kids would ask to leave their cars there for the night.

Anonymous | 12:23 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008

No matter what age its set at there will always be underage drinking and binge drinking. No matter what age its set at you'll always have the idiot who can't handle their alcohol and drives drunk causing accidents.

AR | 12:40 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008

"how absurd it would be for government to approve something that would permanently harm young minds"

So, let's make 25 the minimum age to enroll in the military, since I'm pretty sure going to war is more harmful to a young mind than drinking. Also, since 20 year olds are not mature enough to decide whether they want to have a beer, let's also raise the legal age to vote, smoke, drive a car, sign a contract...

The 21 limitation started as a way to reduce drunk driving, but it is increasingly clear that now it's just being pushed by people who is against all forms of drinking at any age.

To 'accidents go up': the legal drinking age in Canada is 18, and it has seen the exact same reduction in alcohol related accidents than the US since the US raised it to 21.

Common Sense | 12:45 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008

If anything, they should make the drinking age higher. Alcohal is poison. Why do you think it's called 'alcohal poisoning'?

Eastern Observer | 1:04 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008

Kids who want to drink are going to drink regardless of the legal age.

To Common Sense | 1:04 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008

Did you know that you can be in a state of water intoxication? Ban water at the higher age that you think alcohol should be placed.

That Guy | 1:49 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008

Just some info on the military, as a sea soldier with 14 years of active service. My young killers do not have to ask to use the head 99% of the time which is no different than any job. When I went to combat training after bootcamp in Sep ï¿½94 Marines and sailors could drink beer at E-clubs in San Diego County. Did my friends and I all run over there and get drunk everyday, nope. Well in ï¿½96 the Mommies-Of-America decided that 17-20 year olds were not responsible enough to drink, so we all had to go to Tijuana. Letï¿½s just say we then came back with hangovers and some had a few extra critters. This policy has been axed and now commanding officers can allow their Marines to drink at unit functions on base. Thereï¿½s nothing worst than sitting at a table in dress blues with your wife (b-day ball) and hearing a bell struck for every Marines in your unit that has been killed since the last ball and then telling your 20 year old Cpl who was shot twice and now has PTSD that he can not have a beer because heï¿½s not mature enough.

A Fair Trade | 1:54 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008

It's obvious that there are many people out there (who never lose a chance to take a shot at the local predominant faith) who like the idea of lowering the drinking age to get us out of the "stone ages," etc. They harp about adults being adults, responsibility, blah blah blah. I agree, but with a condition: Go ahead and lower the legal age, but I want to see the consequences for DUI to be doubled or tripled. With freedom comes responsibility, and anyone who drives drunk should be willing to lose their license for life. Yes, it IS that serious. Lose a family member or a friend to someone who drank irresponsibly and then you can tell me it is no life-and-death deal. The good people of this state have a hard enough time driving safely and politely without adding more youthful knuckleheads fueled by alcohol into the equation. People keep forgetting that driving is a privelege, and not a right. Lower the age? Be my guest. Just be sure to up the ante for those who can't handle adult responsibility.

treat them as adults | 2:10 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008

Long ago, the government gave up treating 18 year olds as children, giving them the vote, and the great burden of military service. It does not make sense to treat them as children in the case of alcohol. As Libertarian candiate for Utah Attorney general, I will campaign to restore this lost right, alsong with others. I call on young voters to rebel, and to demand equal rights. Vote Libertarian and be free.

evensteven | 2:43 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008

To Whomever @ 11:47

To the contrary. The easier alcohol is to obtain, the more it will be used and at younger ages. The problem will be pushed down to high schools. Drinking to excess is not due to "sneaking around" or "chasing". It is a product of culture and no amount of wishing will make the prevalence of a 'spring break' mentality go away. Watch MTV for awhile and you get the picture.

Popular culture focuses on, is obsessed with, alcohol. Drink to be pretty, drink to have fun and be fun, drink to be smart, drink to be popular. Whatever you do, just drink.

Lowering the drinking age will unfetter an over-indulgent culture from any semblance of moderation and responsibility.

Mahonri | 3:06 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008

Absurd, why? One can join the military, fight, kill and die at that age. Why not the freedom to take in all their constitutional republic has to offer at the same time?

an 18 yeat old | 3:51 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008

If I'm allowed to fight for my country and possibly DIE, then I should be allowed to drink alcohol. It is not absurd to lower the drinking age. If someone wants to drink let them. Its their body and their decision. Change the drinking age to 18. But have restrictions.
Examples
1. 18-20 not allowed in bars.
2. have a limit of alcohol they can purchase

You may think just because we are just becoming adults doesn't mean we aren't responsible. So you know we always have things planned. Like taxis, dd's, or we make arangements to stay where we are drinking. We are not irresponsible. Let us do what we want. Its our desicion not yours.

To evensteven | 4:13 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008

Marijuana is illegal and already in high and middle schools, so your point is moot especially since alcohol has been also in both middle and high schools. It is naive of you to think otherwise. The fact remains that training up your children to drink responsibly, actually lessens the probability of them having later life problems with alcohol. You want to couple that with more severe penalties for dui? I could not agree with you more with a loss of license the first offense.

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