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More FLDS indictments today?
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Making judgments | 1:30 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
God gave me a brain to make fair judgments of good from evil, and I am making a
good judgement RIGHT NOW, and that judgment is, that the Flds, cult men, are of
the DEVIL.
Evidence | 1:46 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
For months, the FLDS and their sympathizers have been claiming that there was no
evidence of sexual abuse or illegal forced marriages of child brides.
Now that the evidence is starting to come out, they claim that the evidence was not obtained legally.
That remains to be seen, but the "illegally obtained" evidence may be the lynchpin to prove that CPS was correct in their claim that there is a pattern of abuse with the FLDS community.
The decision to remove all of the children may have gone too far, but more and more we're seeing that the sexual abuse of children through forced marriages was being promoted and practiced by the leaders of the FLDS community.
These weren't isolated incidents by members acting on their own, the abuse was being orchestrated by the men in charge of the community.
Now that the evidence is starting to come out, they claim that the evidence was not obtained legally.
That remains to be seen, but the "illegally obtained" evidence may be the lynchpin to prove that CPS was correct in their claim that there is a pattern of abuse with the FLDS community.
The decision to remove all of the children may have gone too far, but more and more we're seeing that the sexual abuse of children through forced marriages was being promoted and practiced by the leaders of the FLDS community.
These weren't isolated incidents by members acting on their own, the abuse was being orchestrated by the men in charge of the community.
Cats | 2:04 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
TO Franz: RIGHT ON!!!!
Comments continue below
Cats | 2:06 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
To Evidence: MORE RIGHT ON!!!!
getreal | 2:07 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
Patiently waiting to see who is indicted next. No doubt there will be more,
including some of the women. And the custody cases are still ongoing. Lots
more court dates for the FLDS to come. We'll see how much Slick Willie has
to say in a few months.
Janice | 2:10 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
WRZ
In this case if i cannot have my two dead husbands in the next life, who i have children with both of them. And what you have said sounds pretty sexist to me, and one sided. Guess it's time for me to drop my membership.
In this case if i cannot have my two dead husbands in the next life, who i have children with both of them. And what you have said sounds pretty sexist to me, and one sided. Guess it's time for me to drop my membership.
Cats | 2:22 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
I have a lot of anger toward some of these mothers and I agree that some of them
should be indicted, but we have to remember that they are victims, too.
These women have also been programmed from the time they were born. They have no power and are completely under the thumb of the men. If they oppose the men they may be severely beaten.
Warren Jeffs actually brought one of his wives into a meeting of men and then yanked her hair until she crumpled to her knees. He did this to demonstrate what men should do to ensure obedience and compliance from their wives.
Worse yet, women are taught that if they don't "keep sweet" and do what they're told, their husband has the power to take their eternal salvation from them.
The role Elissa Wall's mother played in the crimes committed against her is disgraceful. Something drastic needs to be done and it needs to include the women. But, we must remember that these women really are victims, too.
These women have also been programmed from the time they were born. They have no power and are completely under the thumb of the men. If they oppose the men they may be severely beaten.
Warren Jeffs actually brought one of his wives into a meeting of men and then yanked her hair until she crumpled to her knees. He did this to demonstrate what men should do to ensure obedience and compliance from their wives.
Worse yet, women are taught that if they don't "keep sweet" and do what they're told, their husband has the power to take their eternal salvation from them.
The role Elissa Wall's mother played in the crimes committed against her is disgraceful. Something drastic needs to be done and it needs to include the women. But, we must remember that these women really are victims, too.
realitycheck | 2:29 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
re To Jay 12:56pm
I totally disagree. Most are NOT ordinary, decent folks. Most are abuse enablers. If they had listened to their conscience when all this was happening, and stopped it, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I mean, any normal person's conscience would be screaming "STOP, STOP - YOU CAN'T DO THAT TO A 12 YR OLD", or "YOU CAN'T KICK OUT THAT BOY - HE'S ONLY 15", or "RE-ASSIGNING FAMILIES IS WRONG". I'd settle for a whispered "call the real cops - this is abuse".
The collective conscience of the FLDS (their souls)has been taken away. They are no longer decent people. No one stood up for these children, and protecting their child IS THE ENTIRE FUNCTION OF A PARENT. It's also the duty of every adult. Yet none said anything.
They have no conscience telling them right from wrong.
Or maybe not. If the next time that little voice in the back of your head (that's God's voice, just so you know) tells you something is wrong or immoral, take the time to listen. Then think about it and stop the abuse - no matter the risk to you.
Then perhaps there's hope for you.
I totally disagree. Most are NOT ordinary, decent folks. Most are abuse enablers. If they had listened to their conscience when all this was happening, and stopped it, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I mean, any normal person's conscience would be screaming "STOP, STOP - YOU CAN'T DO THAT TO A 12 YR OLD", or "YOU CAN'T KICK OUT THAT BOY - HE'S ONLY 15", or "RE-ASSIGNING FAMILIES IS WRONG". I'd settle for a whispered "call the real cops - this is abuse".
The collective conscience of the FLDS (their souls)has been taken away. They are no longer decent people. No one stood up for these children, and protecting their child IS THE ENTIRE FUNCTION OF A PARENT. It's also the duty of every adult. Yet none said anything.
They have no conscience telling them right from wrong.
Or maybe not. If the next time that little voice in the back of your head (that's God's voice, just so you know) tells you something is wrong or immoral, take the time to listen. Then think about it and stop the abuse - no matter the risk to you.
Then perhaps there's hope for you.
wrz | 2:57 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
Cats | 9:27
"The photo of Warren Jeffs kissing a twelve year old is ample evidence of abuse."
Not unless it was a French kiss. And there's no way to tell from the picture.
"That alone is enough for a conviction."
How do you know the photo was not modified?
"An adult in a romantic embrace kissing a child is, by definition, child molestation."
I looked up the word in the dictionary and didn't find your definition. Where are you getting this?
"No proof of sex is necessary."
In a court of law it is.
"Matt. 18:6 'But whoso shall offend one of these little ones...it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.'"
The offense of the children was perpetrated by Texas CPS.
"Warren Jeffs has publicly admitted that he is a FALSE PROPHET."
You believe what Jeffs says? Interesting.
"The photo of Warren Jeffs kissing a twelve year old is ample evidence of abuse."
Not unless it was a French kiss. And there's no way to tell from the picture.
"That alone is enough for a conviction."
How do you know the photo was not modified?
"An adult in a romantic embrace kissing a child is, by definition, child molestation."
I looked up the word in the dictionary and didn't find your definition. Where are you getting this?
"No proof of sex is necessary."
In a court of law it is.
"Matt. 18:6 'But whoso shall offend one of these little ones...it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.'"
The offense of the children was perpetrated by Texas CPS.
"Warren Jeffs has publicly admitted that he is a FALSE PROPHET."
You believe what Jeffs says? Interesting.
Shameful & Evil | 2:58 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
Thanks Cat's for bring up the warren Jeffs story on here. I had heard the
same story from close associations to FLDS, from two of their members. These
people NEED TO BE STOPPED!
Warren Jeffs is a genuine swine!
Warren Jeffs is a genuine swine!
realitycheck | 3:05 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
re - Sleuth 11:20am
actually, this is simply a matter of right and wrong. Promoting child rape to 12 yr olds is wrong.
I would love to go on the witness stand for you, and I'll answer all your questions honestly.
But then it's my turn. And I will want you to explain to everyone why you believe pimping out 12 yr olds to a 50 yr old pedophile is a good thing.
And why you believe kicking out a 14 yr old boy is in his best interest.
And how it's right to tell a woman and her children that they now "belong" to another man and need to "keep sweet".
And about how it's a parents' right to prevent their children from have a working knowledge of the world around them. And how it's perfectly acceptable to isolate your childen so they have but one future - the one you chose for them.
Can't wait to hear your answers. But don't forget to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God.
Should be interesting....
actually, this is simply a matter of right and wrong. Promoting child rape to 12 yr olds is wrong.
I would love to go on the witness stand for you, and I'll answer all your questions honestly.
But then it's my turn. And I will want you to explain to everyone why you believe pimping out 12 yr olds to a 50 yr old pedophile is a good thing.
And why you believe kicking out a 14 yr old boy is in his best interest.
And how it's right to tell a woman and her children that they now "belong" to another man and need to "keep sweet".
And about how it's a parents' right to prevent their children from have a working knowledge of the world around them. And how it's perfectly acceptable to isolate your childen so they have but one future - the one you chose for them.
Can't wait to hear your answers. But don't forget to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God.
Should be interesting....
Anonymous | 3:05 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
common sense | 11:26
"But I do believe in a HOLY GOD, who gave us words and wisdom to live by. And some of those words were, Do NOT harm little ones, if you do, you deserve to have a milestone tied around your neck, and drown in the deepest sea."
I agree. And I believe that the Texas CPS should pay dearly for harming these children.
"But I do believe in a HOLY GOD, who gave us words and wisdom to live by. And some of those words were, Do NOT harm little ones, if you do, you deserve to have a milestone tied around your neck, and drown in the deepest sea."
I agree. And I believe that the Texas CPS should pay dearly for harming these children.
re anonymous 3:05pm | 3:36 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
so in your opinion, it is worse to put children in a child-care facility than it
is to stand by and watch parents pimp out a 12 yr old to a 50 yr old
pedophile....
interesting. Warped, definitely FLDS bizarre, unethical and immoral, but also interesting.
do you have any other beliefs that totally go against human decency? we are interested to know.
interesting. Warped, definitely FLDS bizarre, unethical and immoral, but also interesting.
do you have any other beliefs that totally go against human decency? we are interested to know.
Cats | 3:41 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
Well, I guess we can ALSO count WRZ out as a fair-minded, reasonable person.
Yes, Warren Jeffs has finally told the truth for the first time in his life. He just folded up like a cheap little two dollar suit, admitted he was a fraud and tried to off himself. The sad fact is that he is now confronted with the kind of person he is, the fact that he is going to have to pay for it and he can't stand to live with himself. And the charges just keep on comin'.
It's really sad the way these bloggers continue to defend child rapists and those who throw young boys out into the cold.
Yes, Warren Jeffs has finally told the truth for the first time in his life. He just folded up like a cheap little two dollar suit, admitted he was a fraud and tried to off himself. The sad fact is that he is now confronted with the kind of person he is, the fact that he is going to have to pay for it and he can't stand to live with himself. And the charges just keep on comin'.
It's really sad the way these bloggers continue to defend child rapists and those who throw young boys out into the cold.
Sarah | 4:46 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
By the time they're done, Texas will have proven that in fact they were
justified in taking all the children because all are at risk of abuse, neglect
and/or abandonment.
Anonymous | 7:17 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
re anonymous 3:05pm | 3:36
"so in your opinion, it is worse to put children in a child-care facility than it is to stand by and watch parents pimp out a 12 yr old to a 50 yr old pedophile...."
Ripping a two year old away from his mom's breast is not abuse?
Abuse of children in child-care facilities and foster care is well known and rampant.
"so in your opinion, it is worse to put children in a child-care facility than it is to stand by and watch parents pimp out a 12 yr old to a 50 yr old pedophile...."
Ripping a two year old away from his mom's breast is not abuse?
Abuse of children in child-care facilities and foster care is well known and rampant.
John Pack Lambert | 7:22 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
In Thailand that average marriage age for females is under 10.
I do think we should enforce our laws. However I think people need to accept there is a big difference in sexual relations with a three year old as opposed to with a thirteen year old.
I have yet to see any case of an FLDS marriage that involves true pedophilia, although the marriage of the 12-year-old does come close. 12-year-olds are generally in puberty, so they do not fit the technical definition of pedophilia.
There are alegations from Jeffs' nephew that he was sexually abused by Jeffs when he was about ten. If that is so, than Jeffs would fit the true definition of a pedophile. However that is a case where it is the word of the nephew against Jeffs.
I do think we should enforce our laws. However I think people need to accept there is a big difference in sexual relations with a three year old as opposed to with a thirteen year old.
I have yet to see any case of an FLDS marriage that involves true pedophilia, although the marriage of the 12-year-old does come close. 12-year-olds are generally in puberty, so they do not fit the technical definition of pedophilia.
There are alegations from Jeffs' nephew that he was sexually abused by Jeffs when he was about ten. If that is so, than Jeffs would fit the true definition of a pedophile. However that is a case where it is the word of the nephew against Jeffs.
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51st District Court Evidence
A 12-year-old girl, with face blurred to protect her identity, holds a picture of her purported husband, FLDS leader Warren Jeffs, in a photograph that was part of a letter penned by the girl. Both were exhibits in a child-custody battle involving another girl in 51st District Court in San Angelo, Texas.
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