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Utah's outlook is called 'recessionary'
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George Addington | 3:21 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
Well, years ago it was said that housing will lead you into a recession and will
lead you out; also, about 30 years ago there was a famous book by M. Friedman
titled: "Free to Choose" which became the conservative
bible. Well, they got what they wanted which was deregulation and look what it has got this country?
bible. Well, they got what they wanted which was deregulation and look what it has got this country?
It doesn't help to use ... | 6:47 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
the word "recessionary" when we're NOT in a recession. Ya might
wanna look up the definition.
Comments continue below
It's not deregulation | 7:01 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
it's greed from the masses.
Anonymous | 7:21 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
Construction jobs are mostly held by people that shouldn't have been here
in the first place.
When my neighborhood was being built it was impossible to communicate with any of the construction workers.
If those jobs are lost it will also mean less students to teach in our schools so the classroom numbers will actually drop back a bit.
Utah and the nation NEEDED this slowdown to get ourselves back to reality.
In the long run it will be a good thing.
When my neighborhood was being built it was impossible to communicate with any of the construction workers.
If those jobs are lost it will also mean less students to teach in our schools so the classroom numbers will actually drop back a bit.
Utah and the nation NEEDED this slowdown to get ourselves back to reality.
In the long run it will be a good thing.
Bob G | 7:47 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
Business and government better get tuned to the times. An economy in float
(unsecured debt) will not survive and is always going to have recessions. When
income and spending by consumers and business exceeds the ability to repay then
everything tumbles. Business and government are whining about losses but the
poor consumer isn't given a second thought. Because the consumers
can't float their accustomed and regular spending habits everybody is
becoming whiners. Consumers are being blungened with advertisements to keep
spending beyond their means. The financial market has created their own downfall
now its up to them to cut their profiteering and fraudlent lending. Reality is a
real eye opener that any one with inteligence could forsee. But business and
financial instutions have been deceiving consumers with corrupt and deceptive
lending, and its not favorable to business or government spending. The world
economy is based on the ameican consumer, other growing countries also rely on
the american spending. The time has come for save then spend, not spend to save
a fictious savings. Corporate america and government fear the day when the
working people demand higher wages to live within a reasonable level. It's
the only way out for consumers.
All is fine in Pleasantville | 7:58 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
Senator John McCain tells us:
"I don't believe we are in a recession."
LOL!
Why doesn't he tell that to the record-breaking amount of people of Utah who lost their homes recently?
And while he's at it, why not tell that to the people of Utah who had to file for bankruptcy?
As usual, to the neocons - All if fine and dandy in Pleasantville.
"I don't believe we are in a recession."
LOL!
Why doesn't he tell that to the record-breaking amount of people of Utah who lost their homes recently?
And while he's at it, why not tell that to the people of Utah who had to file for bankruptcy?
As usual, to the neocons - All if fine and dandy in Pleasantville.
Conejo | 8:02 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
I'm glad "they" have figured out the appraisers are inflating
values. I'm also glad it is just a recent thing because of the economy.
I'm sure they didn't want to keep the business before but now they do.
Good for them.
Not only Appraisers | 8:13 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
The housing collapse has many to blame, not just appraisers. I was a mortgage
broker for several years working for a crooked Piece of Garbage named Phil O.
Cochrane. His favorite loan was a liar's loan called a pay-option ARM. He
knew that 90% of the deals he originated were BAD loans. And when I say bad
loans, these were loans that he was able to fudge the numbers to the point where
the buyer could afford practically any house they chose. These were liars loans
because the buyer didn't have to prove an ounce of income, tax return, or
anything. All Mr. Cochrane had to do was pick the appraiser that he had an
agreement with: inflate the value to match the loan, (with a little kick-back to
the appraiser, of course), and wait for the check to come in. Every level of
that office was in on the shtick: From the underwriters, to the loan officers.
I was considered a sub-performer because my borrowers always seemed to end up in 30-year conventional loans. For that reason I left the company, and I have NEVER, not for one second, regretted getting away from that den of thieves.
I was considered a sub-performer because my borrowers always seemed to end up in 30-year conventional loans. For that reason I left the company, and I have NEVER, not for one second, regretted getting away from that den of thieves.
It's not just about Housing | 8:25 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
Inflation from the falling dollar and gas prices are my bigger concern. Fuel
prices and the resulting inflation in food and other products will continue to
delay a housing market recovery. It is also going to delay a stock market
recovery. If gas prices go down and stay down. The housing market will be fine.
Sara | 8:34 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
Wow, here we go again, blaming conservatives. As we all know it is the senate
who passes all these laws and makes the economy this way. When we had a
Republican senate a few years ago, everything was fine economically. Liberals
love to get us in messes, and then start screaming, blaming and name calling.
What a party. No wonder they keep getting us in trouble. No one of any
intelligence could belong to it.
Recession | 8:49 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
Pleasantville, do you know what a recession is? It's defined as two
consecutive quarters of contraction of the GDP.
We haven't even had one quarter of contraction yet - the last two quarters have been slightly positive.
So when McCain says we're not in a recession, guess what? He's right!
Sorry to rain on your emo liberal cutter parade.
We haven't even had one quarter of contraction yet - the last two quarters have been slightly positive.
So when McCain says we're not in a recession, guess what? He's right!
Sorry to rain on your emo liberal cutter parade.
41Cadillac | 9:01 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
The extra money, not earned, but taken out of the inflated value of homes in SLC
is also soon to bite back hard.
There is 184 homes for sale over $400,000 in Zip code 84102, 84103, and 84105. That is the area around the U of U.
One needs $100,000 a month income to purchase a $300,000 house and a down payment to buy these over-priced homes.
There is 184 homes for sale over $400,000 in Zip code 84102, 84103, and 84105. That is the area around the U of U.
One needs $100,000 a month income to purchase a $300,000 house and a down payment to buy these over-priced homes.
Re: Pleasantville | 9:04 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
You again?
Who's to Blame | 9:05 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
While it is true unscrupulous lenders, appraisers and others contributed to the
problem, let's get real about who is really to blame: the Federal Reserve
system with its fiat money. They determined at what interest rate to lend to the
banks, Greenspan encouraged everyone to get more creative with their products,
and their policies created the bubble. Go see IOUSA ***tonight only*** at
several SL theatres and learn what is really going on. It is a blockbuster
documentary that will open your eyes. Warren Buffett and others will be in on a
satellite town meeting along with billionaire Pete Peterson. Let's take
back our power!
Reality | 9:30 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
We have 4% unemployment! The economy here is still just FINE!
re 41Cadillac | 9:36 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
$100,000 a MONTH income to afford a $300,000 home? Really? People in this
valley must have some mighty well paying jobs to afford all these homes, by your
criteria.
Reality | 9:42 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
For nearly 20 years the housing and construction segment of our economy has been
in a boom. It has been growing faster than the larger economy, and some of
those years way, way faster. I could ask my eight year old what she would
expect to eventually happen given that recent history, and she would get it
right. Bang! The cupcake stroll is over and reality says that what goes up
really fast in the economy will have to come back to meet the broader economy at
some point. Notice how everyone and their dog was getting into anything related
to construction: mortgage lending, real estate developing and real estate
agents, etc. etc. It was only a question of when not if. The amazing thing is
that it lasted so long. Don't talk about all the greed but rather just
normal people mostly trying to get in on the ride before it ended. Well it has
ended and the economy in housing will retract for a time in order to even out
the previous imbalance. Economics 101, shouldn't be too tough for even
Deseret News journalists to follow.
Stewart | 9:45 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
The 15,000 jobs lost in construction don't show up in the Utah jobless rate
which is determined by the numbers looking for work and applying through
Workforce Services. So the Utah jobless rate is still near full employment
levels at 3.5% in July.
The reason that the we don't see a serious rise in the unemployment rate due to the 15,000 jobs lost is because most of those who have lost jobs are not eligible to apply at Workforce Services because they are in the country illegally. There is still significant employment in commercial building and some who have lost jobs in residential have gone there, and others have gone back to school or other lines of work.
The residential building and mortgage industries have been needing a house cleaning for sometime now. Most of those in this industry have never seen a correction, and failed to prepare for it. It has been in an up cycle for 20 years. This correction is not necessarily a bad thing, unless you work in these industries.
The reason that the we don't see a serious rise in the unemployment rate due to the 15,000 jobs lost is because most of those who have lost jobs are not eligible to apply at Workforce Services because they are in the country illegally. There is still significant employment in commercial building and some who have lost jobs in residential have gone there, and others have gone back to school or other lines of work.
The residential building and mortgage industries have been needing a house cleaning for sometime now. Most of those in this industry have never seen a correction, and failed to prepare for it. It has been in an up cycle for 20 years. This correction is not necessarily a bad thing, unless you work in these industries.
Blame where it starts | 9:51 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
There are some appraisers who can share blame in the down turn but why is Mr.
Lifferth throwing his very own profession under the bus? He makes a sizable
living off the appraiser's in the state of Utah and his organization. Stop
"kissing up to the state", Rick. The home loan or purchase transaction
begins with the realtor not the appraiser. The realtors are paid 6% commission
for a purchase or sale of a house. The loan officer is also paid on commission
depending on the viability of the loan and credit of the borrower. Commission
for two of the three "legged stool" in the whole transaction? Are you
seeing a pattern here? The only one paid on a predetermined set fee is the
appraiser. And the most regulated and governed of the three. Now I'm not
naive and think there are no bad appraisers, there are and they need to be delt
with, but in the whole process, who benifits more from dishonesty? A better
system to avoid "commissions" on all parties would be better for
everyone. The current system "breeds greed". Blame where and how the
house transaction starts and not the appraisal profession as a whole.
Republicans Fault | 9:58 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
I am a Republican and I am totally flabbergasted at the lack of reality
perception that exists in the GOP. You have Senator Phil Gram(current McCain
staffer) saying that we have become a nation of whiners. You have other
conservative talk show hosts clamming that everything is fine with the economy
(they do this to shine a more favorable light on the failed policies of George
Bush). McCain himself seems totally clueless with regard to the economy. His
only solution is drill for oil offshore -which will have a very minimal impact
on the price of oil. Nuclear Power is a good thing but again it won't have
ANY immediate impact on the economy other than create a few jobs in a couple of
selected states. The BIG drain on this economy is the IRAQ WAR. We are paying
BILLIONS monthly to support this mess with nothing in return. This dumb war
doesn't even generate jobs back home. With McCain you can bet your bottom
dollar we will continue with this war mess for the foreseeable future.
Anonymous | 9:58 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
Conservatives always get the economy into a jam (mostly because of their
insatiable greed) -
then the liberals always bails the country out of it while uniting the country once again from the nasty Limbaughites who have divided it.
then the liberals always bails the country out of it while uniting the country once again from the nasty Limbaughites who have divided it.
OC | 10:02 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
I live in Orange County in Southern California and have been discouraged by my
financial advisor's from buying any property in Utah...yet. Their
exhaustive studies indicate that property values, both residential and
commercial, in Utah are among the most artificially inflated in the country.
They know that values are "certain" to drop another 40% to 50% within
the next 12 to 18 months. I did recently buy a bank repo in Provo for my
daughter and son-in-law who are both going to the "Y", but believe I
will avoid investing in Utah for a while.
Definition of recession | 10:02 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
Recession: gross domestic product (GDP) growth is negative for two or more
consecutive quarters.
I don't have quarterly growth, but Utah GDP (real) annual growth was...
2004: 10%
2005: 10%
2006: 8%
2006-07: 5.3% (highest in the nation)
It may be slowing, but it sure doesn't sound like a recession to me.
Data source: U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis
I don't have quarterly growth, but Utah GDP (real) annual growth was...
2004: 10%
2005: 10%
2006: 8%
2006-07: 5.3% (highest in the nation)
It may be slowing, but it sure doesn't sound like a recession to me.
Data source: U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis
Lying with Statistics | 10:07 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
Recession and Reality,
Your arguments don't hold water because GOVERNMENT STATISTICS ARE MANIPULATED and BOGUS.
Go read up at "shadowstats".
If the statistical measures are messed up then the conclusions are wrong.
Long and short of it is-
Unemployment is far higher
Price Inflation is far higher
GDP is far lower
Your arguments don't hold water because GOVERNMENT STATISTICS ARE MANIPULATED and BOGUS.
Go read up at "shadowstats".
If the statistical measures are messed up then the conclusions are wrong.
Long and short of it is-
Unemployment is far higher
Price Inflation is far higher
GDP is far lower
Oh Please | 10:07 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
BushCo told regulators to back off. The Masters of the Universe proceeded to rip
off everyone. Now Bushco comes in to bail them out. As always, the Masters come
out fine and the little guy gets nailed. So what else is new in a Republican
universe?
Housing recession... | 10:10 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
A few months ago I discovered that our housing industry is in a recession, not
the entire economy itself. Housing has taken a hit, but has not negatively
affected the entire economy itself.
Next time you spout off about how bad our economy is make sure you understand the difference between the housing economy and the other economy.
On average, the economy is doing better during the Bush administration than during the Clinton administration.
Next time you spout off about how bad our economy is make sure you understand the difference between the housing economy and the other economy.
On average, the economy is doing better during the Bush administration than during the Clinton administration.
Reason | 10:10 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
We are not, technically, in a recession, but it is a slowdown, and its main
causes are the rising prices of housing, fuel, and food, because of stupid
regulations and poor leadership.
For example, in housing, the Fed's mismanagement and meddling in the economy. The Fed was created by Congress.
Second example: Draconian restrictions and regulations on prospecting, drilling, and refining oil have placed us in a position where we have to depend on other, less-friendly nations for our fuel. In this sense the environmentalists haven't helped, either, giving coal and nuclear power a bad name, and encouraging (even sponsoring and promoting) the above-mentioned restrictions and regulations. Increased transportation costs are passed along to the consumer, resulting in higher prices on everything.
Third example: Recently passed incentives for ethanol have squeezed the grain markets and increased prices of corn and other grains, thus increasing prices of the food sources that consume those products (beef, chicken, etc.), resulting in higher food prices.
We need to get rid of all the crooks and idiots in Washington and get some honest people in there who will do what's best for the United States. Let the revolution begin.
For example, in housing, the Fed's mismanagement and meddling in the economy. The Fed was created by Congress.
Second example: Draconian restrictions and regulations on prospecting, drilling, and refining oil have placed us in a position where we have to depend on other, less-friendly nations for our fuel. In this sense the environmentalists haven't helped, either, giving coal and nuclear power a bad name, and encouraging (even sponsoring and promoting) the above-mentioned restrictions and regulations. Increased transportation costs are passed along to the consumer, resulting in higher prices on everything.
Third example: Recently passed incentives for ethanol have squeezed the grain markets and increased prices of corn and other grains, thus increasing prices of the food sources that consume those products (beef, chicken, etc.), resulting in higher food prices.
We need to get rid of all the crooks and idiots in Washington and get some honest people in there who will do what's best for the United States. Let the revolution begin.
Anonymous | 10:12 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
"No recession."
How utterly stupid!
How utterly stupid!
Anonymous | 10:14 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
Why our neocons have not figured out how their leaders have been giving them the
shaft is a mystery to me.
Does Limbaugh really have THAT much power of these ignorant people?
Does Limbaugh really have THAT much power of these ignorant people?
robert j petersen | 10:31 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
If you think we are in a slowdown think what rescinding the Bush tax cuts,
raising capital gains tax, Extra taxes on those earing over $250,000 a year
will do. Oh I know Dems love to blame the rich. I would love to tax the rich
if it would help the economy, but it would hurt it severely. Mr. Obama wants to
tax the rich because it is "fair." That's income redistribution
from those who earned it to those who don't. Moreover the small
businessman will not hire you if he can't make a profit. Wonder why Ireland
and those eastern Euopean countries are doing so well: the flat tax.
re: Anonymous | 9:58 a.m | 10:33 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
I knew I could count on some clueless liberal for a good laugh.
whatever | 10:40 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
Anybody in Utah under the age of 30 has not experienced a recession or likely
cannot remember how utterly miserable the Utah economy was throughout pretty
much all of the 1980s. A slowing or recessionary economy is way overdue for the
Beehive State, unfortunately.
re: 10:33 | 10:48 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
Now that's pretty profound.
As always is from neocons who never have anything to add of substance to anything.
That's why progressives always step in and do what they have to do.
As always is from neocons who never have anything to add of substance to anything.
That's why progressives always step in and do what they have to do.
Jason | 10:46 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
As a country and state, we are NOT in a recession. We are in a slowdown. That
slowdown in partially due to housing and fuel cost problems. To those hurting,
it might feel to THEM like a recession, but 'recession' isn't the
right word. I started a business that currently employs 37 well paid employees.
In this economy, I am having a hard time filling our open employment spots
because the market is so tight for the employees we want to hire. We are in
software/technology and times are not just good, they are great.
This isn't meant as an 'in your face' comment to those hurting, only a perspective from someone outside of the housing industry.
This isn't meant as an 'in your face' comment to those hurting, only a perspective from someone outside of the housing industry.
To: Jason and Housing Recession | 11:02 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
The tide has pulled out and the tsunami wave is coming in. Careful about going
out to pick up the pretty seashells. It's nice you are in a stronger
industry, but you will NOT be immune.
HR,
"has not negatively affected the entire economy"
I can't wipe the smile smile off my face! That is so amusing! What color is the sky in your world?
HR,
"has not negatively affected the entire economy"
I can't wipe the smile smile off my face! That is so amusing! What color is the sky in your world?
On the numbers... | 11:06 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
I think we all should be more than a little suspicious of inflation and
unemployment numbers. Clearly inflation is understated. I calculated my rate
of inflation at 13% for EACH of the last three years, from my own bank records.
Unemployment numbers are cooked because the government STOPS COUNTING THE
UNEMPLOYED after 26 weeks. Employment numbers may be higher than 30 years ago,
but wages have fallen for six years now, even using government numbers. The
"pain" people feel is real and whether or not we fit the text book
definition of a recession is of little solace to those who are hurting.
Artificially Inflated Prices | 11:04 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
You all can argue semantics all you want.
BUT this is what the article was about: Artificially Inflated Home Prices. You have not seen even the tip of the tip of the iceberg with regards to how bad the housing market is going to get in Utah.
There have been back-door deals going on for years, even decades, between the lenders, appraisers, and their ilk. This to me has been coming for years and that is why I am out of the mortgage profession. I could not look myself in the face and feel good about destroying people financial future.
Further, now all of them: the appraisers, the lenders, etc., have to have STATE licenses because of all of the "corruption". Now you are all seeing the result of a corrupt system.
And if you think that the high price of OIL, and the devaluation of the dollar, and the RESOUNDING THUD of the housing market across most of America are unrelated, YOU ARE A FOOL.
WE ARE ALL TO BLAME: both sides of the political arena.
BUT this is what the article was about: Artificially Inflated Home Prices. You have not seen even the tip of the tip of the iceberg with regards to how bad the housing market is going to get in Utah.
There have been back-door deals going on for years, even decades, between the lenders, appraisers, and their ilk. This to me has been coming for years and that is why I am out of the mortgage profession. I could not look myself in the face and feel good about destroying people financial future.
Further, now all of them: the appraisers, the lenders, etc., have to have STATE licenses because of all of the "corruption". Now you are all seeing the result of a corrupt system.
And if you think that the high price of OIL, and the devaluation of the dollar, and the RESOUNDING THUD of the housing market across most of America are unrelated, YOU ARE A FOOL.
WE ARE ALL TO BLAME: both sides of the political arena.
Dems always blaming someone | 11:36 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
Im neither Democrat nor Republican, but I have to laugh when Liberals get on
here and ALWAYS blame their problems on Republicans. Here are the top 10 cities
in the country with the highest poverty rates. All of them are under Democratic
leadership!
For example, Detroit, whose mayor has been indicted on felony charges, hasn't elected a Republican mayor since 1961. Buffalo has been even more stubborn. It started putting a Democrat in office back in 1954, and it hasn't stopped since.
Unfortunately, those two cities may be alone at the top of the poverty rate list, but they're not alone in their love for Democrats. Cincinnati, Ohio (third on the poverty rate list), hasn't had a Republican mayor since 1984. Cleveland, Ohio (fourth on the list), has been led by a Democrat since 1989. St. Louis, Missouri (sixth), hasn't had a Republican since 1949, Milwaukee, Wisconsin (eighth), since 1908, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (ninth), since 1952 and Newark, New Jersey (10th), since 1907.
The only two cities in the top 10 that I didn't mention (Miami, Florida, and El Paso, Texas) haven't had Republicans in office either -- just Democrats, independents or nonpartisans.
For example, Detroit, whose mayor has been indicted on felony charges, hasn't elected a Republican mayor since 1961. Buffalo has been even more stubborn. It started putting a Democrat in office back in 1954, and it hasn't stopped since.
Unfortunately, those two cities may be alone at the top of the poverty rate list, but they're not alone in their love for Democrats. Cincinnati, Ohio (third on the poverty rate list), hasn't had a Republican mayor since 1984. Cleveland, Ohio (fourth on the list), has been led by a Democrat since 1989. St. Louis, Missouri (sixth), hasn't had a Republican since 1949, Milwaukee, Wisconsin (eighth), since 1908, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (ninth), since 1952 and Newark, New Jersey (10th), since 1907.
The only two cities in the top 10 that I didn't mention (Miami, Florida, and El Paso, Texas) haven't had Republicans in office either -- just Democrats, independents or nonpartisans.
Anonymous | 11:40 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
THE SKY IS FALLING !!!!
I literally LOL at someone from the OC telling us how home prices are going to run.
Having lived their for 20 years and in Utah for 20 years I can tell you ....
Don't listen to your financial planner.
I literally LOL at someone from the OC telling us how home prices are going to run.
Having lived their for 20 years and in Utah for 20 years I can tell you ....
Don't listen to your financial planner.
kathyn | 11:52 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
It's laughable the way the gov't figures out COLA (cost-of-living
adjustment) for those on fixed incomes. Anyone on SS or other pensions know
that the inflation rate is much higher than we are being told it is.
re: 10:33 | 10:48 a.m | 11:56 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008
I'm having another good laugh. This board is very entertaining.
To: The Sky Is Falling | 12:03 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
You are exactly right...I would give anything to live in Orange County
California for the past 20 years rather than Utah, especially now.
Re: The Sky Is Falling!!! | 12:09 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
Whoever you are, are you telling us that you lived in OC for 20 years and then
in Utah for 20 years??? If so, I would hate my financial planner as well. My
brother in OC retired at the age of 50, sold his home and is now comfortably
retired and living in Sun Valley Idaho in his mortgage free house, with LOTS of
money to spend. No wonder you claim "Anonymous", you are not very
bright!!!
Thomas | 12:09 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
Before everyone laughs at the alleged Chicken Littles warning of recession, keep
in mind that the LDS Church almost died once because of a bursting real estate
bubble.
The Kirtland Safety Society "anti-bank" got heavily into inflated land investments during the Ohio land boom of the 1830s, and got wiped out in the Panic of 1837. That caused a huge split in the early Church membership, and forced the Church leadership out of Kirtland.
I hope the present Church has learned from experience and hasn't gone too long in real estate related investments.
10:33, "progressives" never actually create anything. They milk the teats of those who actually do. That is, when they don't get greedy and actually kill the goose that lays the golden eggs, as they have a regular habit of doing.
The basic problem is that there are always more looters than producers, so whenever the producers expose themselves to criticism by making major mistakes -- which of course they, like everyone, eventually do -- the looters have no problem convincing everyone to join them in blaming everything wrong on the producers, and loot them.
The Kirtland Safety Society "anti-bank" got heavily into inflated land investments during the Ohio land boom of the 1830s, and got wiped out in the Panic of 1837. That caused a huge split in the early Church membership, and forced the Church leadership out of Kirtland.
I hope the present Church has learned from experience and hasn't gone too long in real estate related investments.
10:33, "progressives" never actually create anything. They milk the teats of those who actually do. That is, when they don't get greedy and actually kill the goose that lays the golden eggs, as they have a regular habit of doing.
The basic problem is that there are always more looters than producers, so whenever the producers expose themselves to criticism by making major mistakes -- which of course they, like everyone, eventually do -- the looters have no problem convincing everyone to join them in blaming everything wrong on the producers, and loot them.
It's all about the CHICKENS | 12:55 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
The biggest problem in our WORLD is that when faced with crisis situations,
people would rather argue about who is a Dem and who is a Repub., and which of
the others deserve the most blame. Most of you are too busy pointing the finger
at someone else or too busy trying to start a FLAME-WAR on an anonymous comment
board that you miss the point of the article and really the gist of the crisis
we as Americans are facing right now.
Most of you people make me sick. You would rather squabble over a few semantics and lob insults at one another rather than discussing the true nature of the problems in our country and our community.
We need to stand together and demand more from our leaders and from our government. There should be no mysteries why we are in the situations we are in. We are too interested in fighting each other than in taking responsible action and exercising the WILL of the PEOPLE.
The chickens are starting to come home to roost.
Most of you people make me sick. You would rather squabble over a few semantics and lob insults at one another rather than discussing the true nature of the problems in our country and our community.
We need to stand together and demand more from our leaders and from our government. There should be no mysteries why we are in the situations we are in. We are too interested in fighting each other than in taking responsible action and exercising the WILL of the PEOPLE.
The chickens are starting to come home to roost.
Anonymous | 12:58 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
After 9-11 the economy showed signs of slowing. The FED then pumped a lot of
money into the economy.
The Banks ( flush with low cost cash) then began to get creative in loaning all of that cash. This resulted in a housing boom that propped up the economy for 5 years.
We are now seeing the result of the creative financial instruments: Foreclosure, lack of credit,
bank Failures, ect. Also there is the devalued dollar, resulting in high prices in the international markets. (oil, and other commodities)
I don't know if you can blame President Bush or just the fed. The deregulation in the financial industry is also to blame. So I guess there is enough blame to go around.
The Banks ( flush with low cost cash) then began to get creative in loaning all of that cash. This resulted in a housing boom that propped up the economy for 5 years.
We are now seeing the result of the creative financial instruments: Foreclosure, lack of credit,
bank Failures, ect. Also there is the devalued dollar, resulting in high prices in the international markets. (oil, and other commodities)
I don't know if you can blame President Bush or just the fed. The deregulation in the financial industry is also to blame. So I guess there is enough blame to go around.
not MY heroes | 1:22 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
The country is clearly in a recession and John McCain doesn't know how many
houses he owns.
This mega-wealth is what neocons (richie-rich wanabes) worship. The wealthier the guy is the better a leader they seem him as.
The stupid neocons aren't concerned how many people these guys [blanked] to get where they are.
They are not MY heroes.
This mega-wealth is what neocons (richie-rich wanabes) worship. The wealthier the guy is the better a leader they seem him as.
The stupid neocons aren't concerned how many people these guys [blanked] to get where they are.
They are not MY heroes.
Willbur | 1:38 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
To OC, 10:02 am: I couldn't help but laugh that you and your so-called
financial adviser would believe that Utah(?) is the most artificially inflated
housing market in the country. Try looking in your own backyard in Orange County
and So. California where two-bedroom, one-bath dumps in crappy neighborhoods
usually are listed for no less than $400,000 on a good day.
Economics Historian | 1:40 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
Based on users comments on this post, there seems to be quite a bit of finger
pointing to parties perceived to be guilty of getting us into this debt crisis.
The truth is that many people are to blame, from individuals buying homes,
speculators, real estate agents, mortgage brokers, and appraisers. However, it
doesn't start there. Large banking institutions were selling complex
mortgage backed securities and other debt related investment products
(CDO's) they didn't understand. However, because of the insatiable
appetite in the marketplace for these products, the large investment banks
needed to keep their customers happy by offering these products through very
loose lending standards. All they needed were mortgages to kick off the chain
reaction. In addition, historical computer models tracking the industry were
wrong, which led bonds rating agencies to incorrectly classify these products as
"safe" or "money good" even though they were not.
To argue that the national collective mind of appraisers, agents, etc. to artifically inflate home values is not plausible. (i.e. Appraisers in Florida and Utah just "coindidentally" happend to inflate home values at the same time? Not likely.) The problem was driven by much larger international forces than your local appraiser.
To argue that the national collective mind of appraisers, agents, etc. to artifically inflate home values is not plausible. (i.e. Appraisers in Florida and Utah just "coindidentally" happend to inflate home values at the same time? Not likely.) The problem was driven by much larger international forces than your local appraiser.
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What you mean to say is TO LIE.
Give me a break. Greed Greed Greed and this is where it gets you. Hard to spin and cheerlead when reality smacks you in the face, huh?