Deseret News | College in Salt Lake City joins initiative on alcohol

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College in Salt Lake City joins initiative on alcohol

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Lame | 10:04 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I think that it is stupid that I can go to war and die for my country, but I can't have a beer when I am 18. I think that it is stupid that I can cast my vote to decide the next president, but can't get a bloody mary when I am 18. I think that it is stupid that in America we try and force so many to do stupid things because some people believe that way. I promise you that if the legal drinking age was lowered, you would have a lot less teens getting drunk. It wouldn't be as fun anymore, because it wouldn't be taboo. And here is a thought, instead of whining about lowering the drinking age, why don't you get off the computer and be a parent and teach your kids how do be responsible, if they choose to drink or not to drink! HELLO!

Robert | 10:09 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Two thoughts: First, has Westminster College experienced problem-drinking among its students? If so, Mr. Bassis does not say so as a reason for placing his signature on the petition. If not, then why the concern on his campus?

Second, I don't understand the logic. How will lowering the drinking age prevent alcohol abuse and binge drinking? Do students drink to excess simply because it is illegal to do so? If problem-drinking can be solved or alleviated by lowering the legal age to drink alcohol, where is the proof? Is this simply the belief of Mr. Bassis and others like him, or is there some actual basis for the decision? The news article does not mention this.

Just a note, | 10:09 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I find it interesting that so many people believe an 18 year old is not responsible enough to drink yet these same people have no problem sending their kids off to war. When my father in law returned home from fighting in Veitnam he was 20 years old. Here was a man sent to fight for his country and when he came back he couldn't go into an off base bar and order a beer. Where is the logic in that?

Comments continue below

Wow | 10:12 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Really everyone here needs to understand that the underage drinking problem is more then the fact that they are drinking! Its the fact that they drink tell they can have no more. True this happens everywhere, but in all the places I have been the drinking problem here in USA is by far WORSE then everywhere else I have been.

I read one of the comments saying that this was a scam being backed by breweries. Ya and they found bigfoot (moron)

Look I know this has been said many times before, but until the laws change on when you can serve in the military, and when you can vote, I will always have no problem with a 18 year old having a drink. Don't tell me their brain is still developing crap, but have no problem with them dieing in Iraq, hypocrisy at its best.

John E. | 10:15 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Alcohol causes so much behavior that is damaging and stupid. Lowering the legal age in this country will obviously increase that behavior. Maybe there is a correlation in Europe between legal age and incidents of bad behaivor, but that doesn't prove causation. European culture is different and people do things differently. Perhaps the reason the legal age is so high in America is because history has proven that a lower age cause more problems. Also, military service in wars has nothing to do with drinking alcohol, so that comparison should be stopped immediately. Military service can be a good thing for somebody to help keep them busy and doing something useful for their country. Alcohol only serves to kill brain cells and encourage bad behavior. The military doesn't want its young people drinking because it gets them in trouble. Just stop using that comparison to justify a lower legal age.

Stephen | 10:38 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Drinking at 18 (or younger) is undeniably a bad idea.

But it is also a bad idea to make laws that prevent them from doing so. Considering there is no conclusive evidence that teenagers are any better off with these laws on the books, this burden on law enforcement is unwise.

Imagine what it would be like to have college students welcome the presence of law enforcement in their midst. Imagine driving down the road and being relieved at the sight of a police car. We need to use laws much more carefully and sparingly.

There have to be better ways to keep ourselves safe without pitting the average citizen against law enforcement. The drinking age laws are a problem not because drinking is good, but because the law is not a good way to discourage young people from doing so.

CP | 10:39 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I have to say I have to agree with MADD AGAIN. It really doesn't matter what age you make it legal to drink. Kids will do it anyway. And not just 18 yr olds. But even younger. I don't understand the "logic" with why they would want to drink. I guess it's because it makes them look "cool". Just like they think it's "cool" to use drugs. Stupid logic.

Sounds Dumb but ... | 10:49 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Never been to europe, but according to people who have been to France that I have listened to here is what they told me.

In France, it is the custom that everyone in the family will drink a small cup of wine with dinner, even the little kids.

They don't have the binge or other drinking problems there that we do here.

If I had to guess why here is what I would say, they are taught to drink responsibly from the time they are young, there is no getting to college age and thinking now I can drink so I will go overboard.

Lannea Cangelosi | 11:02 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

The only obvious one sided opinion is the following by national Madd president Laura Dean-Mooney who is not willing to have the problem of college drinking debated. Her opinion disreguards any other solutions or the debate of solutions and is one sided and not democratic.
(Officials with Mothers Against Drunk Driving have said lowering the legal drinking age would result in more incidents of drunken driving. They've asked parents to reconsider supporting the colleges and universities that have signed on to the Amethyst Initiative.
"It's very clear the 21-year-old drinking age will not be enforced at those campuses," said Laura Dean-Mooney, national president of MADD.)
I am a mother with a son who is serving this country in the military and has done so in different manners since age 18. I do believe that if our children can go into battle at the age of 18 then they should be considered adult enough to enjoy a beer.
Resposibility is learned by being put into a situation and dealing with it. Denying our young adults the right to make the decision on drinking only creates a resistance that is not healthy.

Susan Hales | 11:11 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

In 1973 the state of Wisconsin made the legal drinking age 18 and this included all types of alcohol. I was a senior in high school and I watched friends who had turned 18 leave school at lunch not to return because they had gone out drinking for lunch. That is not the most tragic part of the story. Wisc. borders Illinois to the south. Ill. did not join Wi. in lowering the drinking age. I can not quote the statitcs on the number of young people who were killed on the highways going back to Ill after drinking all night in Wi. But more than the lost life of one was too many and there were hundreds of lives lost, before Wi changed their law. How can a University Pres be so uniformed to think that making the drinking age lower could some how fix the problem of college age drinking?

chuck | 11:14 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Does this mean the Church shouldn't send missionaries out until their 21, since their brains are still developing and all?

Himself | 11:22 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

From the philosopher Homer Simpson

"Alcohol, the cause and cure of all man's problems."

FYI Bassis did not endorse lowering the legal age.

Driver | 11:23 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Dear Mr.Westminster President: I believe your desire to change this law is the wrong decision. We do not need any more damage to our culture from libertine leftist academics, thank you very much.

Now, let's see if we can get some cops down to Westminster and crack down on any illegal activity there- underage drinking, drug use, drug sales, illegal aliens, or even spitting on the sidewalk.
We are a nation of laws, and while I respect the right of people to argue for changing laws, we need to enforce the laws until such time as they are changed.

Zero tolerence!

CB | 11:26 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Shame on you Mr. Bassis, I would think you would be striving to enhance your students, not encourage a behavior that could debilitate them for the rest of their lives. Quit trying to be 'Mr. Nice Guy' and take on the role of the mentor that you should be.

As an alum | 11:27 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Westminster can no longer count on my support in its endless round of fundraisers.

Bishop Rick | 11:38 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Leave the drinking age where it is and raise the driving age to 18.

You reap what has been sown | 11:38 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

We never had any problem getting alcohol. There's was something rewarding about defeating a system that tried to keep alcohol away from us.

There is clarity in hindsight. Laws must be realistic in what they can achieve. When, we beat the prohibition on alcohol, we were learning that you can beat other laws too.

Stationed in Germany, I saw a culture who had more respect for there laws because citizens weren't drown in a sea of laws.

A policeman wouldn't stop a drunk from his walk home, they never intervened if you drank in public but, when the police got involved people didn't see it as harassment.

I'm slamming down a beer before I get in the passenger seat.

Klaus asks: "What are you doing"

"I can't carry a open beer in a car so, I'm drinking it."

"Why can't you have a beer? I'm driving and I'm not drinking."

I love simple logic.

Another issue | 11:41 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

One issue with lowering the drinking age to 18 is the introduction of legally obtained alcohol into the high schools. An 18 year old college freshman drinking illegally among 21 to 25 year old college buddies who legally purchased alcohol is one thing. A 14 year old high school freshman illegally drinking alcohol that was legally purchased by 18 year old high school seniors is quite another.

Admittedly, the extent to which current laws actually limit alcohol availability to those under age is another question. But presuming such laws do limit the availability of booze to those underage, then introducing legal alcohol to the High School social scene drops the effective minimum age a lot lower than 18.

How dumb! | 11:43 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Everybody knows alcohol consumption is stupid....just a way to help you feel better about yourself. So go on, drink up...you'll get those hot girls you want and everybody will like you. That's all it is...self-confidence in a bottle.

Alcohol kills | 11:49 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

As a Canadian trained doctor living in the US, let me just say something from my personal experience. On 3 separate occasions while I practised in Canada I was involved in cleaning up the mess and establishing the cause of death for drunk driving fatalities occurring on the victim's 18th birthday. I personally think the legal age for drinking should be changed to age 40, but it's a lot safer for 21 year old than teenagers.

Un ami de Guillaume W. | 11:56 a.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I have lived in France and there are lots of drunks wandering around the streets urinating on parked cars at night. They probably were taught to drink moderatedly, but were genetically doomed to be alcoholics.

Most French alcoholics drink at home, not in bars, so drunk driving is a lesser problem there.

Chris | 12:02 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

It always struck me odd that one can be drafted or enlist to die in the service of America's military, yet be deemed unsuited to decide about one's drinking.

It seems that legalizing it or not is not really the issue: why are America's young so prone to drinking? Why are most American men so prone to it as well? Is it genetic? Is it cultural? What are we as a culture that seems to create the best circumstances in the world for all types of addiction?

All the best.

To: COLLEGE STUDENT | 12:04 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Yes, some 18 yr olds have ways to get alchohol, BUT,
the laws DO keep many from getting it.
Removing the law is foolish.

Up Chuck | 12:15 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Someone just has to bring the LDS church in...I think there is quite a difference from a sober 19 year old than a drunk one. Based on your logic...since brains deteriorate as we get older...maybe we should change our laws so that people over 60 can't drink!

If... | 12:18 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

If you don't lower the drinking age to 18, which is the legal age of adulthood, then raise the legal age of adulthood to 21. That solves it. That means that you have to be 21 to: get drafted; enlist in the militarty; vote; serve on a jury; get sentanced as an adult; etc. etc.......

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If your an adult at 18, then you should be an adult. If not, then change the legal age of adulthood to 21. That is your choice.

I think that lowering the drinking age to 18 for personal choice to consume makes sense. Also, add that those under 18 can consume alcohol at any age when in the supervision of a parent or legal guardian. Maybe more adult, parent, supervision would curb the binge drinking because drinking wouldn't be viewed as a "party." It is the party aspect of drinking in the US that is the problem.

I drink beer or wine often. However, I do not get "drunk." Believe it or not. It is the truth.

Kevin | 12:19 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Wow Bob Anderson, let's go back to prohibition. Worked the first time, right. The mob running the country, that would be a wonderful thing.

How naive!

Before prohibition there was no drinking age. Prohibition wasn't created due to problem drinkers, it was temperance and the 'big sin' of drinking. Everything in moderation people! It's a fact that drinking in moderation (1-2 daily) is healthy. Studies show that those that drink even 2-4 drinks daily live longer than those that do not drink at all.

Most, if not all European countries have no drinking age, consume more alcohol then Americans yet have a lower incidence of binge drinking and drunk driving.

SpenceOC | 12:27 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

18 year old students are all ready famous for making really stupid decisions. Lowering the legal drinking age will just make it more difficult for drivers to avoid getting killed by drunk drivers and all other kinds of alcohol related ills.

Police Officers the world over spend a great deal of their work time dealing with alcohol related issues. Adding the relative stupidity of youth to the mix just adds insult to injury.

It sure seems like our higher institutions of learning are having a great deal coming up with intelligent thought. Wonder why that is!

Wrong message. | 12:39 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

This is a cop out on the part of these universities to avoid dealing with the problem of underage drinking on campus. This sends the wrong message to college kids about drinking and will have the opposite effect. This also reveals a common problem in our society today. Parents and leaders want to be friends to the young people more than they want to lead them and teach them. Yes, it is harder to say no when they beg and plead or go behind your back, but giving in is not the solution.

John S. | 12:42 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

It is a myth to say that the Europeans don't have a drinking problem.
Look at the number of suicides in Finland.
Look at how much alcohol is consumed in Russia. They are not a happy people.
I remember riding on a train from Sweeden to Norway with a train full of drunk teenagers. It was most unpleasant.
Lowering the drinking age will just distract the students from what they are going to college for -- to get an Education.
The Westminister President has shown that he is a fool by signing the petition.

Conejo | 12:45 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I have to wonder what the motivation for this initiative is.

The European argument that their children learn their limits quickly is fine if we approve of drunken 5 year old children stumbling around in the sandbox. At least they are learning their limits.

The University President's argument that the limit set at 21 encourages binge drinking seems misplaced. Would they have us soak an infant's pacifier in rum to get them used to the taste and effects of alcohol? I suppose that way the thrill will be diminished when they are older. Of course, that may cause other harmful affects to society like diminishing brain function and development.

Like all vices in the world, the solution is a good parent's constant attention to their child's well being. It doesn't matter if or when something harmful is deemed legal. What matters is that it is harmful, and should not be approved of in any way, shape, or form.

Todd | 12:45 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I have a different approach, move the age of legally being an adult to 21 and pass laws that voting, drinking, driving, accepted for military service, ect. is based of being age 21 and over. What is wrong looking forward to reaching age 21. Also, I believe colloeges have a hard time following through with current drinking laws because the colleges receive less money when a student is arrested and has to leave school. This could be a money issue more that a caring issue....

False info in comments | 12:48 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

It is absolutely false that most of Europe has no minimum drinking age. Poland and Portugal are the only nations that have it as far as I know.

There are several with the minimum at 16 (France, Germany, Italy) and many with the age at 18 (UK).

There are plenty of alcohol-related problems in Europe.

Lowering the drinking age isn't a magical cure for anything, but it is interesting that adulthood starts at 18 in the U.S. but not drinking.

Ello | 12:49 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

This may be shocking to some of you, but kids start drinking around 15.
The difference is that when they feel like they are doing something wrong, and they only have tonight to do it, they bing drink. Bing drinking increases the risk of alcoholism.
If we teach them how to be responsible then they will drink the correct way.
I know that many of you think drinking is wrong at any age, so teach your children that, but the rest of us who think that it is enjoyable and fine should have rights as well.

John S. | 12:53 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I think the main reason that Europeans have a lower incidence of drunk driving is that less drive. They have public transportation over there. So when they get drunk, they just take the bus home and make life miserable for the other passengers.
I remember riding on a train from Sweeden to Norway with a trainload of drunk teenagers. It was very unpleasant. And don't tell me that teenagers over there don't binge drink because I saw it first hand.

P. Fugax | 12:56 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Out of curiosity, what's the legal age to own a gun in this state? I assume it's at least 21, since that is apparently the age at which you become capable of making rational and informed decisions.

Frustrated in WA | 1:04 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Don't compare our culture to Europe's, it is not the same. In Germany if you drink and drive you lose your licence for good.

The real reason these college presidents want to lower the drinking age is that they are tired of being critized for the underage drinking in the Frat Houses. They don't like the bad press. If the law changes their problem goes away. Our family knows of a nice young lady who went to college as a 17 year old. Someone helped her to get drunk and then raped her. Think about it. Preditors use alcohol to get what they want. Lets not open the door to more. The more kids that stay away from alcohol until they are older the better. About 1500 college students die each year in alcohol related accidents (falls, alcohol poisoning, etc).

Better idea: Ban all alcohol from the frat houses and those that insist on drinking will disperse further from the colleges and will reduce the numbers in their drinking groups.

Kevin | 1:12 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

John S,
You assume the reason for suicide rates in Finland are related to alcohol when in fact many northern lying countries and states for that matter have high rates of suicide. Seattle Washington at one time (and maybe still does) had the highest rate in the country, not because of alcohol, but due to lack of sun light. In Russia alcohol is a symptom not a cause. Sure, there are problem drinkers in every part of the world. When people use Europe as an example it's to point out that it's not necessarily the drinking, it's how responsible the drinker is and whether they have to get in a car to get home.

The argument to lower the drinking age is based on the increased rate of binge drinking. It's thought that if 18 year olds could drink casually, legally, they wouldn't binge when given the opportunity, they would have more self control because there's always tomorrow. It's a fact that binge drinking has increased since the drinking age was raised nationally.

Dr. Booty | 1:30 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

You've got to be kidding, right? This president is what he is: a liberal college president. I can see why he has chosen to suggest that we lower the legal drinking age to 18. (Bad choice, Mr. college
president)

re ridgerunner | 1:35 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

are you serious? there are plenty more things that cause more human suffering that alcohol. and kids who drink at age 18 are going to do it whether it is legal or not, maybe lowering it would take away the "thrill" of underage drinking.

Europe drinks.... | 1:42 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

...and drinks a lot. Please stop with the "Europeans don't have drinking problems" rountine. They do. Let's focus on the problem here.

Dray | 2:03 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

The drinking age doesn't stop anybody from not drinking when they are 18. Maybe this would provide some places that they could drink more safely. I think it would cut down on drinking and driving, you would have less young adults drinking and driving around, they could go to an establishment, and catch a taxi afterward. I don't think they'll actually lower the age, but it an interesting topic.

Hatuletoh | 2:18 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Many posters here illustrate why such an initiative even exists. No one (with any sense, at least) is advocating an immediate, arbritrary drop in the legal drinking age. They are advocating a dispassionate, fact-based discussion as to whether or not something other than total prohibition for people under 21 might be more effective to prevent dangerous behaviors like binge drinking, under age drinking, and drinking and driving.

Mention the word "alcohol" and we get a board full of emotion and anectdote, both of which are terrible standards for setting public policy. Maybe that's why we have so much terrible public policy: self-serving politicians know that all they have to do is mention a couple of trigger words to whip you people into a senseless frenzy.

What's the harm in collecting some data and testing some hypotheses? Heck, we don't even have to change the laws based on the data we collect, but what could possibly be wrong with setting aside our own biases and using facts to make our collective decisions? It'd be a refreshing change, if nothing else.

awesomeron | 3:00 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Bull!!! No need to have Legal Drinking until age 21. Just no need to do it. Weather people are doing it anyway does not matter. If you do not have the Ability to enforce the law does not mean it is a useless law, just means that people have No Respect for the Law, not that the Law is Disrespectful to them. Drinking, Trumps Social Filters and causes bad behavior. College is expensive and there is No Draft to focus the Males not going to College so many are just drifting, no job skills, and no reason to find a job or acquire a skill. No desire to Serve. However a desire to drink just to party, have fun and be drunk. Perhaps have Sex with Females who have damaged their Social and Moral Filters through exposure to drinking. Increase Abortion, and Single Mothers not getting child support. 21 years of age is more then soon enough.

Kevin | 3:04 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Dr. Booty, did you read the entire article or just stop at title? President Bassis signed the initiative to explore options. "I signed the Amethyst Initiative because I advocate exploring new ideas and new approaches about the best ways to prepare young adults to make responsible decisions about alcohol. I did not sign to advocate changing the legal drinking age from 21 to 18." It's time to look at the real reason college students choose to drink. Drinking age laws are just a band aid not a solution.

Europe drinks... I haven't seen one post here that suggests that there are no drinking problems in Europe, but rather just trying to point out that drinking age laws do not curb drinking, and possibly have the opposite affect.

So many here are too closed minded to consider the possibility this initiative may be right. Do some research, I found one study after reading this article that showed that binging increased and grades went down at colleges AFTER the drinking age was raised to 21. MADD wants to claim that drunk driving decreased after the change, the truth is, drunk driving started to decline before the law was changed due to education.

Pro abolition | 4:37 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

People say it's better everywhere else.

Swiss law is that you can drink young... people on here PRETEND!!! to think that that means we should do the same. While most American 18 year olds are MUCH more ignorant than some other countries.... it would not be good to allow this here. SWISS LAW also is that a DUI means you use public transportation from then on.

When my neighbor even has access to alcohol his decision making abilities instantly diminish from the first drink. "Drunk" is a level of blood/alcohol percentage. As one drink leads to another and our NATION'S STATISTICS on DUI's, Deaths related to being under the influence, any event which is influenced by a factor which FOR EVERY HUMAN will cause someone to be drunk, after 2 beers "That's my limit"!?!? How do you decide when to stop if it is ALREADY in your system. You will never know and if you ask someone who has killed someone driving drunk they would agree that THIS IS STUPID to even talk about.

18 year olds in America are having ENOUGH problems and our statistics are going DOWNHILL in EVERYTHING, WHY ADD TO THE TROUBLE!?!? This intelligence test= FAILED

Research | 5:21 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

It's unfortunately clear that 90% of the responders to this article did not actually research the Amethyst Initiative.

Although the AI discusses the possibility of lowering the legal drinking age, it ï¿½does not prescribe a particular policy change.ï¿½ Rather, the whole purpose is to provoke serious debates and discussions about current policiesï¿½which is EXACTLY what Michael Bassis is advocating. It is clear that he DOES NOT support changing the drinking age to 18 as so many of the readers and media have misinterpreted.

Iï¿½d say that if the ultimate goal of the Amethyst Initiative and Westminster is to provoke serious debate and discussion about underage drinking and responsible decision-making, than they are most certainly achieving that goal. Isn't it better to discuss a better solution than stick with the status quo if it's not working?

Kevin | 5:30 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Pro abolition? So you are saying that alcohol should be banned, period? If so, have you forgotten the consequences of prohibition? We have a tendency to create laws in this country condemning the possible cause rather than the action.

Ridgerunner | 6:57 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I hope to see some of you in the next AA meeting! Trust me, its a real eye opener to see what alcohol does to people and how so many struggle trying to live without it! The vast majority do not succeed and live a life of hell on earth! Rather than worry about minimum age limit drinking, make it a law to attend AA meetings before you drink your first drink!

PROOF!! | 7:53 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Google: Drinking-age proposal draws attacks

and you will find all you need to know that this will never go anywhere.

At least read the article | 9:25 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

Amazing how many people commenting on this story obviously didn't read the article. Mr. Bassis only signed the letter saying all options should be explored. I do think that many here also have a false sense of security.. it's illegal so MY child couldn't possibly be doing it. I do find it funny that an 18 year old is an adult legally and is allowed to make every decision for themself except one.

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