Deseret News | Olympics badly need big change

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Olympics badly need big change

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SLC gal | 10:12 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008

I would hate to see the Olympics contained to one spot. Half the fun of the Olympics is seeing other countries. They shouldn't have awarded it to the Chinese with all the medal cooking that has been going on. However I had a blast when the Olympics was here and UT got to experience, and I would hate to deprive others of that same two weeks of nonstop parties and fun.

Olympic reform? | 11:05 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008

We don't need Olympic reform, we just need to not give the Olympics to a communist country. It's China, what do you expect?

Its their leadership | 11:09 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008

A lot of people are defending the chinese people and thier virtues. I don't think the article said anything about the people in general. I think the point is about the government and those who are the controlers. The athelets that are competing are just doing as they are told. They don't have a choice. If the government wants to send out 13 year old little girls and they tell the girls to lie if asked, or they will put their families in jail or worse, they can. The government can produce its own docuemntation or passports if it wants.
The point is the this comunist country beleives it can do what it wants and how it wants when it wants. Don't be supprised if it comes out that judges were threatened or paid off.
I am sure the people of China love their country and are proud of their culture and herritage, that does not mean they agree with communisim. They don't have a choice to beleive anthing other than what they are told to do.

Comments continue below

Slyder | 11:17 a.m. Aug. 20, 2008

The communist regime in China is just that. Till communism is taken out and democracy put in it's place, nithing will change in this country. That is a sad fact. In my opinion, these Olympics have left a bad taste in my mouth because of the "Win at all cost" attitude of the Chinese. It seems however that more and more American companies go to China and sell there souls to them just to make a buck. We help fuel this problem. I purposely look for items made anywhere but China to buy. I don't care if it costs me twice as much. China will be one of the next people we will wind up having to fight.

Open Arms and Open Eyes | 12:02 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008

Having spent a great deal of time in China over the past 10 years, there's no question that they have made significant strides towards becoming good world citizens. However, Doug's assessment is still mostly right on the money. As is the case with most organizations, China does everything possible to hide the warts. The problem is that in doing so, they often trample on individual freedoms that we enjoy and take for granted (i.e. free speech). China desperately seeks validation from the rest of the world and we should celebrate their progress, while continuing to condemn the many methods they use to get the desired results.

Also, knowing a bit about how business gets done in China, there's no question in my mind that judges have been bribed and athletes and other individuals manipulated, threatened, or otherwise cajoled to help China achieve its goals. The Chinese people are wonderful, but the culture in general is devious. Trust, honesty, and fair play are simply not part of the Chinese culture...YET! All positive actions should be accepted with open arms, but also viewed with open eyes.

Anonymous | 12:22 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008

There's always some ticket scandal or bribery or boondogle of some kind associated with Olympics. Now, you've found China to be ...not America. I don't care if they lip synch or CGA the fireworks. It's been a great show; the best thing to happen to summertime tv. Goldman Sachs predicted that the Chinese economy would outpace ours in the mid 2040's, now have revised to about 2025. Sure, they've got warts. But we should probably not base our relationship with them on pointing the warts out all the time.

one Olympic site for ever | 1:25 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008

The Olympics stated in Greece and that is where the permanent site should be. Each country could help build and maintain the site and facilities. Of course the chances of having one Olympic site are about the same as having a College Football playoff - it just ain't EVER gonna happen. Too many fat cats in high places controlling the cash. In the mean time we will have to suffer through the communist's cheating and the false facades as well. It does give Bob Costas something to talk about.

Sarge | 1:56 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008

Just an interesting thought... I saw on the news last night that in Denver (Colorado, USA) free haircuts are being offered to the homeless to "spruce them up" so the city can present a better face to the world during the Democrat National Convention. Well, at least the DNC, the City of Denver, the State of Colorado or whoever didn't tell the homeless what shoes and socks to wear! So we don't have to look to far to see people trying to put a "pretty" spin on things. Its only human nature to make your city, state or country look good to the rest of the world. I agree with Sasha. Communist states thrive in real repression and isolation (e.g., Cuba and North Korea) but the systems begin to collapse when the people are exposed to the rest of the world, and the freedoms enjoyed (and too often taken for granted) by people in non-communist countries. See the documentary Peoples Republic of Capitalism. I found it a fascinating take on the dichotomy that is the current Peoples Republic of China.

Anonymous | 2:00 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008

I agree avbout making Athensw the permanent home of the summer games and let the winter games go wherever . . . AND let participating nations subsidize the Greek government to pay for upkeep, inprovement and expansion of the venues as needed. That is not a small part of such a cost. When I was in Athens in 2004, I was shown with great pride from my Greek friend, the original stadium of 1896. Small, but impresive. But it is still thre and is used regularly.

16? | 3:30 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008

I admit I'm not a gymnastics coach but I am an intelligent adult with eyes.

And...when I see some of the Chinese female gymnasts I reeeeeally wonder if they'll all turn 16 during 2008 like the Olympic eligibility rules stipulate. I bet 13 or 14 is more like it. It didn't strengthen China's rebuttal when one of China's own newspapers reported approximately 9 months ago that one of the gymnasts in question was 13.

Strangely enough, that particular story can't be accessed anymore on the newspaper's website.

I will say that cheating or no cheating, the U.S. is currently leading in the overall medal count (America - 82, China - 79), and, in the gold medal count (America - 26, China - 45), considering that China has more than 3 times the population pool of America to pull from, we've more than held our own against the Chinese!

Go USA!

Shocking, actually.... | 4:05 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008

Wow!, we're into the 3rd page of comments and they're hasn't been a single anti-LDS comment on this thread!

Considering that many LDS-haters take a negative slant of what the Mormon church did to help the SL 2002 Olympics succeed (which essentially was to just encourage it's members to volunteer their foreign language abilities and their time) I'm kind of surprised.

Anyway, I think China, for the same reasons that the article author stated, will be at or near the top of the medal count at the next Olympics. If the U.S. drops severely in it's medal count in future Olympics, that would not bode well for America.

No, it's not that medals matters in and of itself but it DOES reflect the willingness of the rising generation of Americans to sacrifice and work for their dreams (a former American pole vaulting Olympic gold medalsit named Bob Richards pointed out that fact) and that IS something to keep close tabs on.

Re: Shocking, actually.... | 6:24 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008

Oh yeah, we almost forgot to bash the LDS church. Come on people...what are you thinking? Let's get with the program! And, to you, Shocking....thanks for the gentle reminder.

Anti-PC Infidel | 7:27 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008

How in the world could anyone be surprised about a corrupt Beijing Olympics? Did anyone seriously believe that one of the most tyrannical and corrupt national states in history (China) could team up with one of the most corrupt organizations in history (the IOC) to create something that was fair and legitimate? As anyone who has dealt with either knows, bribes and intimidation are expected and standard practice for both China and the IOC. They don't even really try to hide it anymore.

pohaku-1 | 8:00 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008

Every time you walk out of a store with
something marked "Made in China", you are
saying to the world, "Who cares, that's OK,
WE are paying for it..."

Riyadh Right | 8:41 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008

It is amazing that a major local journalist in the Salt Lake market can exhibit such unexamined ethnocentricity and still pretend to the objectivity norms of his profession. Crooked teeth problem - yes we are so much better with our worship of Brittany Spears and Hannah Montana. Human rights - Abu Ghraib comes quickly to mind. Filling venues and other "unethical" practices - SLC Olympics. Spending huge on sports while poverty exists - building new stadiums in many US cities. Turning children into fear driven, single-minded athletes - the local little league games on any given Saturday. And I could go on.

Let me just add my voice as somebody who has lived overseas, worked overseas, done business overseas, and traveled overseas. The USA is just one country among many in this big world and we need better from journalists who would pretend to serve as guides to our interactions with other nations. I, for one, would welcome a more thoughtful and well researched follow-up from the author.

TRUTH!! to Open Arms and Open... | 9:21 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008

THAT is the most accurate comment I have read. I could not possibly agree more!

Those that know the truth are the most hated on this Earth.

China will get hit harder the harder they push against agency. We should try to ease them to a better world by encouraging good and discouraging bad just as a parent government would teach a child government but because the world sits passively among a bad tempered child, the child will burn himself and much more severely than the child ever would have needed to. By those who accept the actions of the Chinese government and are passive to it. Remember that Hitler was voted in and allowed to act as he wished without the people stopping him but more so the people were SUPPORTING him. There are truth seekers but the crowd generally does not follow truth but follows the animal within man and not the tempered, good decision making, God-fearing or educated individual.

Those that ignore China communism are those who are as bad as those who ignored Hitler. I will NOT have my name counted among those who weren't ready for the world!

The real TRUTH is... | 10:27 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008

The more a country develops, the more democratic it becomes. I don't ignore Chinese communism. I just realize it has long been on its way out. Maybe Doug's comments were dead on 30 years ago, but they seem out of touch now.

GoodGuyGary | 11:17 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008

To Riyadh Right: Save it, Doug and other people on this board like to "make the car with a closed door", they will never change.

Man lived in China | 11:30 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008

I lived 2 years in Beijing. China did a wonderful job. How much changed Bejing in last ten years. Total make up. But many Sky rises are still half empty. If you foreigner- will be under constant surveillance. They are still communist...

What a hypocrite!! | 3:43 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008

I found this column unnecessarily strident...Sure China has it's problems...but the US media is constantly giving us lipsynching beautiful people and tries to dress things up to look better than they really are. The Utah '02 games are infamous for bribery. You can't tell me you guys in Utah didn't try to dress things up and let people see your best side.

I agree that political opression is still an issue in China, but look how far they've come. I go to China several times a year on business and find them excellent business partners and hosts. No more self absorbed than the US.

When we stop telling other people what to do and start listening, when we act more gracious and humble, then we can complain about others' pretenses. We are not the gold standard for behavior on this planet!!!

Joe | 5:10 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008

Oh, Doug, here you go on about how China is run by a bunch of despots (showing your paranoia), only to be followed by an article Thursday on how protesters are being sent to labor camps.

To those who say Doug is all wrong, and that the Chinese government is benign and misunderstood, just try and stage a little protest within China and see how long you can stand with your "Free Tibet" flag.

By contrast, protesters turned out in force the last time Bush was in town. How many of them are still walking around free?

Does it pay well? | 9:00 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008

Good guy Gary, does the Chinese government pay you well for writing nice things about them?

Anti-PC Infidel | 10:17 a.m. Aug. 21, 2008

Believe it or not, China is even more corrupt than Mexico, and almost as corrupt as the DNC.

GoodGuyGary | 8:45 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008

I don't get paid, and please just answer my questions.

By the way, does people get paid by the money Bush made form the oil to bash Chinese here? Doug, any comments?

I agree 100% | 7:50 a.m. Aug. 22, 2008

Why the IOC allowed the Olympics to be held in a communist nation is beyond me. I support my team, always will but I do not support where they are held sometimes and this year its disappointing that communism was in the spotlight...aka China...as being a great way to live. What is this world coming too???

GoodGuyGary | 8:59 a.m. Aug. 22, 2008

I think at least 90% of the posters here do not know what Communism is, and maybe 95% of the posters here cannot tell why "Communism" is not suitable to describe China. Just because you learn this BIG word from the colums of Deseret News doesn't mean you have to use it whenever it is possible.

hey goodbuygary | 8:28 a.m. Aug. 23, 2008

Name the party running China, of the three bodies. Here's a hint: The Communist Party of China run by the Politburo Standing Committee of the Communist Party of China.

IOC REFORM!! | 7:16 p.m. Aug. 23, 2008

I could care less what happens. Because I have tried to fix things and no one else will so therefore let the world rot. Let it rot, let it rot. I will keep doing good things to help but I could care less what other people do because they will never listen to the people who actually want to save Tibet, MOST of Africa, the poor, the needy, anyone who actually needs help. This is a selfish world which will fall.

aaron | 8:39 p.m. Aug. 23, 2008

"When fake audiences are shipped in to fill empty seats in Olympic venues to make the event look better on TV, even while real fans are trying to get tickets"

Are you sure that accusation is correct?

I can see them filling empty seats for free to make a better show, but turning away paying spectators?

That can't be true. It makes no sense, even for a communist.

To GoodGuyGary, from Late Me | 8:21 p.m. Aug. 24, 2008

Sorry for my late comment, but all of the columnist's claims of what happened during the Beijing Olympics has been admitted to by the Chinese government, with the exception of the gymnist age issue. They also admitted to filling Olympic venue stands with Olympic volunteers to avoid the appearance of empty seats. This, in itself, is not necessarily a problem, but before the Olympics even started, the Chinese government said that all of the tickets for all of the events had been sold. Just a little note.

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