Deseret News | Reader comments: MormonTimes.com: Mormons on N.Z. team face Sunday-play quandary

Reader comments
MormonTimes.com: Mormons on N.Z. team face Sunday-play quandary

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So what? | 12:50 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Remember Steve Young. I'm sure the team will do fine with those players committed to their team and nation.

Paul Newling from Australia | 3:34 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

I think it is fantastic that these ladies are more committed to the gospel than a game of basket ball. I'm sure they will be blessed for making the right choice

why? | 4:33 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

The Sabbath rule is for the benefit of man, not the other way around. Didn't Jesus Christ himself break the Sabbath in his day to prove that point? You don't earn special points with God by being obsessive compulsive sticklers to little rules when circumstances may call for sacrificing little rules for the big picture. If God blesses you with a chance at a great career that will support your family (the most important thing there is) it's better to keep the higher law of working for your family than to make sure you cross all Sabbath t's and dot all Sabbath i's. The spirit of the law, people!

Comments continue below

KDC | 4:50 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

I applaud these for therir no play position on the Sabbath. I do have a hard time with the difference between watching and playing,in a case like this where the focus is also important. Of course it is better to be there then away when the mind is focused on the outcome

With so many | 5:58 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

LDS athletes competing on Sundays in the pros, I just don't understand why these ladies believe they have to let their team and country down by not supporting them. There are exceptions to everything. I would think this would qualify as an "ox in the mire" situation. I think it is too bad that they believe that their religion is so rigid that they cannot compete.

Howard | 6:43 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

They should have NEVER been on the team if they had not agreed to participate in all games, including on Sunday. Their decision not to play makes the church look bizarre and demonstrates a lack of patriotism for their country. If I was a citizen of New Zealand I would not find their behavior a positive trait but rather inconsistent with other church teachings. They are representing their country!! Do church General Authorities travel on Sunday - of course they do. These b-ball players need a dose of common sense their actions makes the church look weird. Bottom line - they should have never been on the team to begin with if Sunday play was so troublesome to them!!

Darrel | 6:48 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

I applaud all behavior that permits Mormons to call themselves "the peculiar people."

Pro | 6:55 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Amen to Howard-they would never be on my team!

Great Sisters | 7:26 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

It's nice to hear about the few people who don't get caught up in fame and fortune, to follow something they believe in.

Don't bring up Steve Young... He's a bad example of somebody choosing to follow something more on the lines of being worshipped as a golden idol, as opposed to choosing the better path. Great football player, but bad example.

Every other NBA and Pro Football player also serve to fuel an industry that is a religion of its own on Sundays. Unfortunately, these games are not centered around Sunday appropriate worshipping, and the industry continues to wrap its grasp around the would be worshippers... The world continues to shun appropriate Sabbath behavior... And those who choose to take a stand are mocked...

SAD!

Sasha Pachev | 7:46 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

I've never heard a talk in General Conference that praised or even justified a professional athlete for participating in his sport on Sunday. I've heard lots of talks praising athletes for refusing to participate on the Sabbath. I think the principle we are being taught is very clear. Do no do it even if it means some sacrifice. Winning the game is not as important as keeping the promise you've made to God. That is where our first loyalty goes. I am glad to see Olympians that follow that principle.

Example | 7:51 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

The greatest blessings are yet to come. The day that they need to explain to their children how important it is to keep the sabbath day holy, I doubt that the kids activity will be more important than the example that their mother can give them. Some people have to get the ox out of the mire and some people put the ox in the mire on Saturday night so that they have an excuse on Sunday. These ladies told the coach on "Monday" not to put the ox in the mire because they wouldn't be available to help get it out on Sunday. What a great example to all of us.

samhill | 8:04 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

I hope they had made their resolve not to play on the Sabbath known to their coaches before accepting their positions on the teams. If everyone was informed and accepted the "no sabbath" terms underwhich these players were willing to participate, then I have no problem with their decision. Otherwise, I think their decision was improper at best.

Please | 8:07 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Don't be on the team if you know you are going to play on Sunday. Bottom line. It's the same reason byu won't be in the pac 10.

Sad Commentary | 8:25 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

These girls should have known the expectations in the beginning. I have to believe that somewhere in New Zealand there are two female athletics that didn't make their Olympic team who would have loved to be playing today had these two 'sabbath observers' not finished ahead of them. If one was to know from the get go that the possibility of having to play on the sabbath was likely, and they wern't willing to do it, then they shouldn't have made themselves available to represent their Country in the first place.

Sounds like a future 'New Era, Ensign' article to me.

games | 8:41 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Don't join a team that plays on Sunday if you can't do it. I hope the rest of the people on their team hate them for their selfishness.

David | 8:53 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

If you read the article you know a third member of the team who is LDS is playing on Sunday. I believe it is not the teachings of the LDS church that prohibit Sunday play (or watching). Instead, If I were taking that action it would be because of a desire to do the things They believe will strengthen their relationship with their God. Their not getting "extra points" Instead they are refraining from something they believe is contrary to the express wish of their creator. They value their relationship with their God and perhaps through experience they have learned that relationship is stronger and they feel closer to Him when they make such choices. Others, who have the same basic teachings, may not have had such experiences and may feel otherwise. As long as everyone new from the beginning what their position was, all can make adult choices and they are not letting anyone down.

Cats | 8:54 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Steve Young is not a fair comparison because his Sunday playing was a matter of his livelihood. When it's your livelihood, it IS the "ox in the mire." The Church has never told members they cannot work on Sunday when there is no choice. Christ did not break the Sabbath. He only broke with Jewish law, at the time, which had become unreasonable and fanatical. Christ, as the God of this world, set the standard of what is acceptable on the Sabbath.

These girls are not earning a livelihood at the Olympics. (Remember "Chariot of Fire?")I applaud them for their standards. They are great examples and they told their coaches in advance of their decision.

Thank you, for being such great examples.

Easy there, Howard and Pro | 9:26 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Whether or not to let them on the team is the coach's decision, not yours. He obviously thought they would still be able to represent their country adequately. When you have your own team to coach, then you can make those decisions.

evensteven | 9:38 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Ditto to many of the comments. They knew what was ahead of them and should not have "picked up the stick if they didn't like what was on the other end". (Elder Maxwell)

Selfish | 9:40 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

These women are obviously more interested in themselves than giving their nation the best opportunity for Olympic success. If they knew they weren't going to play on Sunday they should never have pursued a spot on the NZ Olympic team in the first place. Yes, LDS members have a responsibility to God, but when you're an Olympian you also have an important responsibility to your team and country.

Anonymous | 9:59 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

The sabbath is Saturday. And, there must be a way around it, kind of like how I see many people in Walmart on sunday dating cheques for Monday. The lord apparently audits records, not behaviour. Finally, this is the olympics. Amateurs, who get together to 'play' a 'game'. Surely given how religious words have been twisted to fit the fashion of the time this activity could be seen as innocuous as a couple kids shooting baskets in the backyard on Sunday. Or Saturday.

ruler | 10:05 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Is browsing the internet and commenting on news stories a proper Sabbath activity?

Carolyn Cheney | 10:13 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Great job Charmian Purcell and Nonila Wharemate. Thank you for standing up for what the Lord has asked us all to do. The Lord will bless those who follow His commandments. Thank you for being great examples!

KWT | 10:22 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

I agree with Cats. Steve Young chose a profession that required him to WORK on sunday. These girls, from my understanding, were not WORKING. They were playing in the Olympics. I know in my profession, there were times when I HAD to work on Sunday. I didnt want to, but to keep my job, I had to. Anyone that has heard Steve Young speak knows he is a great guy. I just think there is a big difference between working on sunday because your employer requires it, and PLAYING on Sunday.

Again We Look Silly | 10:42 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

I wish people could realize that stories and decisions like this may strengthen a few fellow LDS Pharisees but in the big picture really only makes us look more and more silly and strange (call it "peculiar" if it makes you feel better I suppose). It seems like the Church has become more and more about the little observances rather than the big picture like the Savior taught. The only thing these two ladies demonstrated was it is okay to watch or attend games on the Sabbath but don't you dare play. I guess I can keep my NFL package and continue to feel just fine. At least Larry Miller drove up the canyon so as to not even be tempted to go into the arena to watch his Jazz. I thought he was very pharisee-like as well but at least he was a Pharisee through and through. I just hope he filled up the car on Saturday.

I know we all make our personal choices but those choices should be based around the Savior, love, service and touching others. I just hope these two did not take too many steps on the Sabbath getting to and from the stadium.

Laurie | 10:45 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

My goodness folks,everyone needs to take a step back and remember..."Judge not lest ye be judged."Matt.Chapter 7.1-2. Pretty much sums it all up for me!We all need to remember the power of Christ's Atonement!!

James | 10:58 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Mormons love to wear their religion on their sleeves. Anyone see the game today?? The two Mormon players were on the bench in uniform although they did not play. Clearly they were not off at a Bejing branch of the church or studying scriptures in their rooms. Give me a break - it's OK to sit on the bench and cheer but not play?? They should not have been on the team. Throughout the world, police officers, military personnel, medical staff and countless others all work on Sunday. A gov't or other representative that is Mormon may occasionally have meetings on a Sunday due to unforseen events. In other words, these individuals represent an organization greater than themselves. Such is true with the players - they are representatives of New Zealand. These two young ladies could have made a much better impression of the church by showing some patriotism for the vast majority of New Zealanders and played their hearts out!There are exceptions to the rule. Next time a missionary knocks on a door in Auckland do you think the majority of responses is going to be positive? Unlikely.

Mark Berry | 11:02 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

I can't believe the harsh words that have been vented. These young ladies have made a decision that they feel is best for them. I don't believe they are selfish. I'm sure we don't know the background concerning the team or coaches and this issue from the beginning. This probably isn't the first time they made this decision, and I have to believe the coaches and team knew prior to their selection that this would be the case. They were chosen because they would be an asset to the team. We each have our own personal trials and decisions to make. It would be far more constructive to worry about those. If the decision to not play on Sunday has made these young women happy and more positive then 'Go Girls'.

lds | 11:30 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

When I worked in the MTC, I had to work on Sunday.

Let's Get Real | 11:29 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

What a fantastic opportunity it is to represent your country at the Olympics. I truly think their decision not to play on Sunday will only benefit a few fellow rigid, strict constructionist, fundamental members and on balance turn off others who may have looked to these ladies for an idea of what the Mormon Church is all about. We are not about unyielding obedience to laws but rather to a Gospel of Jesus Christ. I have a certain respect for the decision of a Muslim woman who keeps her face covered at all times in public but it only confirms my belief that her religion is largely about obedience, actions, and behaviors. Many look at the Mormon Church in much the same way - what we CAN'T do, say, eat or drink rather than our commitment to the Savior and His atonement. I'm afraid this decision only solidified the idea that we are all about rules and outward appearances and actions. Very few people have had a bigger positive impact on non-members than people like Steve Young and Dale Murphy. I wish these two ladies had followed their example rather than doing what they did.

Your choice. | 11:53 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008

What is right or wrong on this one? It is up to you and your God. I am sure this was not a surprise to the coach. I would suggest that Steve Young or these 2 will talk with God and work it out. It is not my place to state what is right or wrong other than for myself on this one. I am sure there are those in NZ that will agree with both sides.

Anonymous | 12:19 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Free agency people!!!!!!!!!

sb | 12:30 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

These girls are representing themselves, their families, and their country just fine. It seems there are those who would say if you can't participate on Sunday then you shouldn't participate at all. It used to be there were things that were considered sacred. Seems more and more folks just want to push the edge and then make fun of those who try to do what's right. These girls have worked hard to be where they are. They'll give what they can 6 days and then give one to the Lord. Nothing wrong with that.

As long as the | 12:34 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

players informed the coaches BEFORE they were chosen for team -- and this was indeed the case -- that is great. However, if it is true that they were dressed to play but sat on the bench, I don't get the purpose. I don't see how that is in keeping of the Sabboth any more than if they had actually played in the game. It reminds me of Larry Miller being in the dressing room during some of the big Jazz playoff games on Sundays. Why didn't he just come out and watch the game. What is spiritual about a dressing room. It is where your heart is, not where your body is that is important. If everybody concerned here was in church or at a fireside, or home reading scriptures, etc., no problem, but this wasn't the case. This must be extraordinarily confusing to non-LDS.

giving their word | 2:07 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

It really is quite simple. They gave their word they would not play on Sunday.
Case closed.

Like the other LDS player they could have played on Sunday if they did not give their word not to.

The world makes a hero and a movie out of the Chariots of Fire guy, but the commentors here chastize these two women.

They gave their word they would not play... this was said before their selection on the team. They are keeping their word.
In today's world I think this is wonderful. Good for them. In this world all you really have is your character.

kyle from AZ | 3:53 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

They will regret their decision later in life when they realize how foolish their decision makes them look to their country.

Darrell K. | 4:22 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

In the movie "Chariots of Fire" regarding the 1924 Olympics in Paris the subject of Sunday play was explored even involving royal and political influence upon a lad that was not of the LDS faith.

Also of some note is the decision of a couple of noted LDS New Zealand All-Black rugby football members not to play on on Sundays.

Either way I applaud their Courage in the difficult challenges of life.

Carolina Kid | 4:40 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

If the players did not show up for the game and were in church I could understand it but sitting on the bench watching but not playing ??

I do not understand that position but then again as some others have pointed out NFL players play every Sunday.

DennyG | 4:53 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

God gives you a talent.
You decide not to use it.
And you will be blessed.
I'm confused.

Ox in the Mire | 5:08 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

For some people this IS their living. The money olympians can make after it is all said and done is pretty incredible.

Ruth | 5:18 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

A fanatic is a fantic, is a fanatic, is a fanatic and a poor example to community and inteligence.

Honesty | 5:30 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

People should not try and explain Steve YOung's choices away.

He has a college education and post degree in law.

He CHOSE to play football.

He CHOSE to play on the sabbath when he could have chosen another occupation.

His ox was not in the mire.

He put ox in the mire by own choosing.

Any Mormon who chooses to play any sport on the sabbath for a living is doing so by their own choice.

And yet they will still be lauded and written up in the Church News or other church publication and invited to speak a firesides and other church gatherings.

NO ONE should go after these Women who openly made their choices with full beforehand knowledge of their coaches.

I can understand those who need to work on the sabbath who provide the basic daily needs, health, welfare of others.

But even I am left scratching my head when I see them still going to the game or I see larry miller still attending a game on the sabbath (even though he hides himself and still expects his employees to work on the sabbath.)

None of which constitutes observing the sabbath, and even smacks of hypocrisy.

Duke | 5:46 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Exodus 20:8

Rest on the 7th??? | 6:26 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

They wont play on a Sunday?? Who do they think they are ..................... obviously their not Utah Mormons!!!

Ridgerunner | 6:27 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

I was told by my Seventy Day Adventist friends the Sabbath is actually Saturday. So what's the problem?

kathyn | 6:57 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

Actually, these girls did exactly what they said they'd do. None of us has the right to judge them. I'm sure they won't judge you if you won't judge them.

HRU | 7:13 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

The decition was made from the beginning with the coach,I am a player myself,the other players will be happy to play in their place even that they already are out of the medal round,the BKB team has at least 12 players and in my opinion any of them should do an excellent job if they have the oportunity to represent their country...I did not participate in many tournaments for the same reason and when they let me knowing that I will not play the finals in sunday,I was Happy because I love to play,and I started in the USA at the age of 50,and my testimony is that my Heavenly Father knew and I had the oportunity to win in big tournaments because my games were not in sundays....coincidence?..not for me....we have the free agency to choose,we know what is expected if we Obey the covenants we made and they are between God and me,I am the only responsable,I respect other people choices...until you understand the joy that brings to make the right chices,knowing the blessings....then it is easy to critize...

RE: ridgerunner | 7:13 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

The bible never even mentions sunday or saturday,

Just that you should observe a "sabbath" every seventh day.

It's obesrvaing the sabbath that is important not the day of the week.

Calenders, the week, were inventions of men not God.

Whats the point? | 7:55 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

The team has already been eliminated from medal competition. It was not because the two players sat out the game and they lost because of it. The two girls saying they would not play on Sunday is a moot point now since the team was eliminated Friday. I donï¿½t understand, why all the discussion?

These two girls will bring no shame to their teammates or their country. Now if it was Sunday and they had been eliminated from competition because of that game, it may have been a different story.

huh? | 8:16 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

When I grew up in Utah County we played baseball, basketball, football, etc. on Sundays. Mormons every one... except me. Sunday was a great day for exercise: football was a hoot.

What is this hypocrisy? I played sports every Sunday with 5-25 Mormon kids, outside, inside, etc. Bishop's kids. Get serious... when did this hypocrisy sneak in to the Mormon wards?

Oh well.

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