Comments about ‘Utah case raises the question: vigilantism or protecting kids?’

When is a crime considered a hate crime? Is it when a minority is beaten by some one other than a minority? Is it when a gay person is beaten by a strait person? What if a strait person were beaten by a Gay person. Would that be considered a hate crime as well? Is it a hate crime if a black person beats a white person while called him whitey or cracker? I argue that a crime is a crime and that hate crime legislation has done harm to our legal system. Does anybody care to answer these questions intelligently?

After watching the news coverage of this case, it is more than quite clear something is very rotten about all of this.

Why on earth did the Salt Lake County Attorney's office choose not to file charges against those who assulted Mr. Bell and Mr. Fair? ESPECIALLY MR. FAIR assialants? That's just the first rotten apple here!

Next, what was the reason Mr. Bell felt the need to take the children out of their home in the first place? Did he suspect abuse or was it something else? Was their drugs at this July 3rd party?

I feel Mr. Bell's case should be moved out of Salt Lake County's jurisdiction. As far as I'm concerned County Attorney Lorha Miller and her fellow clowns are clearly too inept to handle this case.

Whether someone wants to raise the issue of hate crimes or vigilante justice, there are still clealry a lot of question marks invloved with this case. The biggest question mark of all is, why were no charges filed the beating of Mr. Bell and Mr. Fair?

I thought Lorha Miller's office was incompotent, before, but this takes the cake! Will it no be okay to beat up your neighbor if they don't return your lawn mower right away?

So let me get this straight. (no pun intented) If you are gay then you can take someone's children and you don't have to return them to their home. And if the parents get upset well then the parents are charged with a hate crime.... What is our world coming to. This guy and his partner got what they deserved!

Okay, so what about the children? You can put this guy's picture in your paper showing his wounds but how about the damage that was done to the children???? You seem to be ignoring that.

The problem here is that particulary gay people are victims of this type of crime. Hate Crimes are different than other crimes. The problem and the need for hate crime legislation is the fact when the victim is a gay person it is hardly ever prosecuted. The perpetrators are rarely brought to justice. This happens every day in this country. Gay people continue to be treated as second class citizens everyday of their lives. And this is just one example. Hate is not always a motive for assault, murder, etc. Hate crimes are deliberate crimes committed against another person because of race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. Hate Crimes legislation includes all of these categories not just sexual orientation. The conservative side of the political spectrum likes to tell everyone different and say that their are sufficient laws against these type of crimes already. Well, there isn't. That is a lie!

There is an investigation going on.

Can we refrain from jumping to our favorite conclusions and posting our opinions here, until the facts are discovered by those responsible to do that?

Many Uthans love and support vigilante violence no matter the circumstances. Usually there is lots of support for the beater/ shooter no matter what might have actually happened...often the tenor of the support seems to be applauding the vigilantes for delivering to outsiders "what they had coming". While it doesn't happen every day, its something for out of state companies and people to take into account before relocating here- it's still the wild west, and you must be prepared to defend yourself against rabid "do gooders" as well as "evil doers" in Utah. If you are attacked, people will come out of the woodwork to say what "good people" the perps are no matter what they do to you if the perps are long time locals.

"Although court documents say Bell admitted in his post-Miranda statement that he "brought the children ... to his residence," If a neighbor took my children to their bedroom during the middle of the night, I am not sure that my reaction would be much different. Homo-sexual or not I am sure I would fly into a blind rage. Also, doesn't the fact that they had been invited to the party and spent over 4 hrs at the victims home somewhat negate that the attackers were anti-homosexual?

Fact of the matter is that parents should be given a lot of leeway when it comes to protecting their children. Unfortunately societal norms has shifted more towards protecting the criminal rather than our children. When it's all said and done, I hope the message is this: parents don't fear the law when it comes to protecting your children from any form of abuse. If we have a few cases that cross the line from justified defense to vigilantism, as a whole our society will probably be better off.

Sounds like just another bunch of out of control Polys to me.

There is NO intelligent definition of a hate crime. So-called 'hate' crimes are a politically correct pandering to certain vocal communities. A crime is a crime, no matter WHO is perp.

Hate crime my hinnie, if it were my children, double tap, end of story. Stop preferential treatment, prosecute the crime not the thought. No leinacy on child molesing perverts.

For the last time......
They were not in his BEDROOM. They were at the top of the (short, entryway) stairs.

(First rule of the blogosphere:
"If you have no facts, make some up!")

I don't believe this was a hate crime. These people knew and trusted this man enough to invite him to the party and allow their children to play in his yard and carport. Obviously, they are not "homophobic." The police should have been called as soon as the mother got home and they should have been allowed to handle the situation. The children were safe. These people viviously beat two men without even knowing for sure what happened. They say they just wanted justice, but our society can't have everyone taking justice into their own hands. These people are a danger to others because who knows what provocation they may think warrants a beating the next time, without stopping to find out the details? I would feel nervous about living near such hot heads, if I were their neighbors. They should be charged.

Say what you will about the beating those two guys took ... but I bet they won't ever do it again.

I don't know that investigators will ever truly find out what happened. By the time this gets to court, if ever, all parties involved will have told themselves it happened one way so many times, they will believe it themselves, regardless of the truth.

should be filed. No question about it. Not doing so would be an absolutely disgraceful failure by prosecutors.

Let's see, a party, for four hours, after midnight, lots of other people at both houses. Do you think anyone was drunk or high? When I was a cop these messes always involved alcohol or drugs. What type of a safe environment is that for children?

Anyone remember the pedophile in Florida a few years
ago, that took a little girl from her home, raped,
and buried her alive. And he was just down the street, from where she had lived. What if this story
had gone along those lines. Do any of you think that
these parents might have had thoughts like those in their minds.
Have any of you so civilized people seen how a mother, in the animal world will fight anything for
her young,even to her own destruction?
By the Laws of God, or the Laws of Natural Selection
thes parents were defending their young. They will be the ones that will survive, not the ones that cannot defend it's own.

one should never interact one on one with someone elses kids. What bell should have done is called the police as soon as he saw children wandering around his house in the middle of the night. This was clearly a case for CPS, Bell has animals or nieghbors and these poor kids are probably better off in foster care. Also this is why we have the right to bear arms, first person that comes breaking into another persons home has earned the right to be shot and killed.