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4 FLDS men bail out of Texas jail
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Justice | 3:44 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008
Hopefully the abusers will all be brought to justice and this will lead to
positive changes in the FLDS community where women and children are treated as
real people, instead of objects.
Justice for all | 4:12 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008
Hopefully people will learn the difference between allegations and convictions.
Hopefully we can all learn to treat facts as "real" and
"accusations" as unproven.
IF there are abusers, put them in jail.
IF the women are "treated as objects", let them break free of their bonds
IF the community is acting within the bounds of reasonable law, leave them alone.
If the community is acting outside the bounds of UNreasonable law, let them prepare to do battle as in any case of civil disobedience.
IF there are abusers, put them in jail.
IF the women are "treated as objects", let them break free of their bonds
IF the community is acting within the bounds of reasonable law, leave them alone.
If the community is acting outside the bounds of UNreasonable law, let them prepare to do battle as in any case of civil disobedience.
Doctor reports? | 4:35 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008
Completely apart from this sad case, will someone please tell me whether the
doctors in this nation routinely report births of babies by underage girls, and
if so, who is reporting all the unwed mothers in America and what, if anything
is being done about it?
If it is against the law for underage girls to deliver babies, no wonder our abortion mills are going full time. What a clever way to give them work!
If it is against the law for underage girls to deliver babies, no wonder our abortion mills are going full time. What a clever way to give them work!
Comments continue below
re Justice for all | 5:28 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008
it's tough for the women to "break free of their bonds" when they
are repressed, indoctrinated, and abused from the day they are born.
perhaps if you had ever been in that situation, you would understand that it is easier said than done.
and if they were acting within the bounds of morals or ethics, we would see their children at colleges around the country, now wouldn't we? what don't you get? how would you like to be an FLDS child?
I didn't think so.
perhaps if you had ever been in that situation, you would understand that it is easier said than done.
and if they were acting within the bounds of morals or ethics, we would see their children at colleges around the country, now wouldn't we? what don't you get? how would you like to be an FLDS child?
I didn't think so.
re Doctor reports | 5:48 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008
what you fail to realize is that abortion clinics have to report underage girls
too. So your arguement doesn't hold water.
You also seem to (conveniently) be ignoring the fact that other young girls become pregnant because they were fooling around with someone they wanted to be with, and usually around the same age. The FLDS girls are forced (through coersion) to submit to old men, uncles, stepfathers, and others not of their own choosing.
HUGE difference. (btw - your post has the tone of a woman. I'm suprised you hadn't thought that through. And I'd have thought you'd be on the side of the childen, not the FLDS. Usually the only women supporting the FLDS are their own brainwashed women, after their husbands tell them to.)
You also seem to (conveniently) be ignoring the fact that other young girls become pregnant because they were fooling around with someone they wanted to be with, and usually around the same age. The FLDS girls are forced (through coersion) to submit to old men, uncles, stepfathers, and others not of their own choosing.
HUGE difference. (btw - your post has the tone of a woman. I'm suprised you hadn't thought that through. And I'd have thought you'd be on the side of the childen, not the FLDS. Usually the only women supporting the FLDS are their own brainwashed women, after their husbands tell them to.)
nosugrof | 6:30 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008
When the women from the FLDS were incarcerated at San Angelo, they were observed
by mental health professionals. The women had a high sense of self-esteem and
showed no signs of being brainwashed. They and their children were
pschycologically healthy and showed no signs of abuse. Hardly the kind of people
who have been forced into anything. I have learned that if you violate the
rights of parents who have not abused their children, then you can only hurt
the children. Whenever someone cracks down on polygamy, they always hurt the
women and chldren, the very people they say they want to help.
zxcvbnm | 7:35 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008
All doctors are supposed to report all births to the health department........SS numbers are assigned at birth now.
to re-Justice for all | 10:24 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008
I don't know any members of the FLDS church personally, but I do know some
other polygamous ladies who live in AZ and southern Utah. And they do go to
college, both in their late teens and early twenties and as older women going
back into the work force--many of them do very well, too. Probably some of the
FLDS do, too. They certainly do defense contracting and other technical
contracting that presupposes some degree of education and skill.
It is stereotyping to assume that just because we don't agree with the lifestyle (and I don't) that these women are all being coerced, brainwashed, etc. I give them the credit of believing in what they do and being willing to sacrifice for something they think is true.
I think there have been several splits among the polygamous groups and the FLDS are one group of them, and not all of them are totally united in following Mr. Jeffs either. We are not helping them by demonizing all the men and trivializing all the women.
As for those who are guilty of child brides, forced marriages, and those sorts of abuses--of course they should be prosecuted.
Woman, not FLDS
It is stereotyping to assume that just because we don't agree with the lifestyle (and I don't) that these women are all being coerced, brainwashed, etc. I give them the credit of believing in what they do and being willing to sacrifice for something they think is true.
I think there have been several splits among the polygamous groups and the FLDS are one group of them, and not all of them are totally united in following Mr. Jeffs either. We are not helping them by demonizing all the men and trivializing all the women.
As for those who are guilty of child brides, forced marriages, and those sorts of abuses--of course they should be prosecuted.
Woman, not FLDS
Cosmo | 8:14 a.m. Aug. 15, 2008
Re Doctor reports 5:48;The Abortion Mills do not always report underage rape, so
the argument does in
fact hold water. There has been an ongoing case in
Kansas, over the past two years involving, the Attorney General, and Governor of that state, along with Planned Parenthood. Records have been found proving that underage girls have had abortions done
at certain "facilities", in Kansas, and the formentioned powers involved have been covering up.
Just thought you might like to know.
fact hold water. There has been an ongoing case in
Kansas, over the past two years involving, the Attorney General, and Governor of that state, along with Planned Parenthood. Records have been found proving that underage girls have had abortions done
at certain "facilities", in Kansas, and the formentioned powers involved have been covering up.
Just thought you might like to know.
re - nosugrof 6:30pm | 10:32 a.m. Aug. 15, 2008
this has nothing to do with polygamy. it has to do with repression and
abuse.
and the fact that they believe they have to hide from the world and cannot lead a normal life is definately brainwashing. They accept it because they have been indoctrinated since birth.
They have also been told since birth that they are the chosen people and everyone else will be smite from the earth (very soon). That would give anyone a "high sense of self esteem". It also causes people to forsake all ideas of a different life, as they don't want to be smite along with us.
So while they live all repressed and isolated, the world goes on and no smiting is seen. They force their children to waste their entire lives by convincing them the world will end soon and they will only survive if they stay.
Many seem to find this acceptable. I think it's no different than parents training their children that they must chop off their hands and feet. Pretty much would restrict their entire future if they do it. At what point is a teaching considered child abuse? Is teaching dismemberment abuse?
Think about it.
and the fact that they believe they have to hide from the world and cannot lead a normal life is definately brainwashing. They accept it because they have been indoctrinated since birth.
They have also been told since birth that they are the chosen people and everyone else will be smite from the earth (very soon). That would give anyone a "high sense of self esteem". It also causes people to forsake all ideas of a different life, as they don't want to be smite along with us.
So while they live all repressed and isolated, the world goes on and no smiting is seen. They force their children to waste their entire lives by convincing them the world will end soon and they will only survive if they stay.
Many seem to find this acceptable. I think it's no different than parents training their children that they must chop off their hands and feet. Pretty much would restrict their entire future if they do it. At what point is a teaching considered child abuse? Is teaching dismemberment abuse?
Think about it.
re cosmo 8:14am | 10:44 a.m. Aug. 15, 2008
illegally covering it up and following the law are two different things. if the
law is folowed, the argument doesn't hold water. Illegal actions are
obviously a different story.
re: re - nosugrof 6:30pm | 10:32 | 3:05 p.m. Aug. 15, 2008
Jews teach their children they are the chosen people. Should we go after the
jews now?
Also, what is the "normal life" you speak of? This is a diverse country, and in this country are a lot of different cultures, religions, lifestyles, "intentional communities," etc. What exactly do you call normal? I'm curious to know. Everything is relative. As long as there is only teaching and lifestyle, and no physical abuse involved, there is no reason to take their kids, that much the Appeals court has already ruled.
Also, what is the "normal life" you speak of? This is a diverse country, and in this country are a lot of different cultures, religions, lifestyles, "intentional communities," etc. What exactly do you call normal? I'm curious to know. Everything is relative. As long as there is only teaching and lifestyle, and no physical abuse involved, there is no reason to take their kids, that much the Appeals court has already ruled.
zxcvbnm | 3:13 p.m. Aug. 15, 2008
Oh no Cosmo..that can't be right. Only FLDS doctors are guilty of any wrong doing. Haven't you been reading the blogs?
realitycheck | 4:01 p.m. Aug. 15, 2008
hahaha - oh, boy.
Jews what? It never ceases to amaze me that people will take an obvious issue and try to compare it to people living a totally different fair-handed life. You really can't see the difference between Jewish people and the FLDS?
I don't even kow what to say about a comment that is that ridiculous.
and yes - it's a very diverse country. TONS of opportunity. Everyone else seems to be taking advantage of all these opportunities (including Jewish people - lol) except the FLDS.
And I never said my issues with FLDS were a good reason to take the kids. I said they should throw everyone in jail that they can charge and the kids can choose their own life. And I stand by that.
All the parents should go to jail for conspiracy (teaching children polygamy is conspiracy to commit a crime) and throw away the keys on any actual pedophiles like Jeffs.
As far as your arguement goes, Jewish people want their children to grow up and be successful, choosing their own life's path. FLDS want their children to stay home forever and either make babies or work construction.
What don't you get?
Jews what? It never ceases to amaze me that people will take an obvious issue and try to compare it to people living a totally different fair-handed life. You really can't see the difference between Jewish people and the FLDS?
I don't even kow what to say about a comment that is that ridiculous.
and yes - it's a very diverse country. TONS of opportunity. Everyone else seems to be taking advantage of all these opportunities (including Jewish people - lol) except the FLDS.
And I never said my issues with FLDS were a good reason to take the kids. I said they should throw everyone in jail that they can charge and the kids can choose their own life. And I stand by that.
All the parents should go to jail for conspiracy (teaching children polygamy is conspiracy to commit a crime) and throw away the keys on any actual pedophiles like Jeffs.
As far as your arguement goes, Jewish people want their children to grow up and be successful, choosing their own life's path. FLDS want their children to stay home forever and either make babies or work construction.
What don't you get?
realitycheck | 4:04 p.m. Aug. 15, 2008
and I know what the appeals court said. I never said my issue with FLDS is a
legal one. My issues with FLDS are on ethical and moral grounds. I personally
don't think it's right for parents to pre-determine the futures of
their children. It's like cutting them off at the knees, and TOTALLY
unfair to the children.
Not a legal basis - and just my opinion.
Not a legal basis - and just my opinion.
I-M-1 | 8:13 p.m. Aug. 15, 2008
Realitycheck - I'm a polygamist -was FLDS. I served 6 years in the
Military. I've never received welfare or been on any state subsidy. I
went to college, & have worked my entire life in electronics and
engineering. My parents (also polygamists) didn't 'predetermine'
my future. My wives CHOSE me to be with - they weren't forced to by
anyone.
I don't go around advertising that I have more than one wife, because people like you think it's 'perverted', but I'm committed to taking care of my family and raising them responsibly.
Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, & others in the Bible had more than one wife. You seem to think that if they lived in our day, they should be jailed.
I have a great family. My children go to school. I teach them to make their own choices. I encourage them to continue their education & become whatever they wish to be.
I encourage my wives to pursue their dreams, & because there are several adults in the home, they are free to come and go with no worries about who's taking care of the kids.
Brainwashed? Think again......
I don't go around advertising that I have more than one wife, because people like you think it's 'perverted', but I'm committed to taking care of my family and raising them responsibly.
Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, & others in the Bible had more than one wife. You seem to think that if they lived in our day, they should be jailed.
I have a great family. My children go to school. I teach them to make their own choices. I encourage them to continue their education & become whatever they wish to be.
I encourage my wives to pursue their dreams, & because there are several adults in the home, they are free to come and go with no worries about who's taking care of the kids.
Brainwashed? Think again......
Interloper | 1:57 a.m. Aug. 16, 2008
A relative few men in polygamous groups are allowed some education beyond the
eighth grade so they can fulfill roles that require skills. That is why a
doctor and their former dentist had their educations paid for by the FLDS
leadership. BUT, women are not chosen to participate in such pursuits.
Furthermore, anyone reading the comments of FLDS members, can see that literacy
is a problem for most of them. They are not prepared to function in
contemporary society.
We are not living in Biblical times, so it is not a defense to point to polygamy in the Bible to try to justify contemporary exploitation of women and children. One should also note that polygamists often suffered harm in the Bible.
We are not living in Biblical times, so it is not a defense to point to polygamy in the Bible to try to justify contemporary exploitation of women and children. One should also note that polygamists often suffered harm in the Bible.
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