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Texas widens FLDS probe

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Careful | 9:39 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

Seems the state of Tezas cannot leave it alone.

Sort of like finding a snake in a field and riling it up by poking at it with a stick.

Just don't get bit.

the Texas A-Team | 11:00 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

I love it when a plan comes together.

GO TEXAS!! | 7:02 a.m. Aug. 13, 2008

I don't understand why people on here are throwing out Edwards and others as excamples, seems to me they ALL were over the age of 16 they were involved with, so they shouldn't be in this forum. It doesn't apply to them. if it's someone 12-15 their are laws in the state against what they have been doing.. then bring these people up. Our LAWS apply to all, not a few.

To Cats, Upnorthguy, enjoyed your comments..

Comments continue below

Laurie... | 7:55 a.m. Aug. 13, 2008

Rob Parker's law firm makes millions defending sexual predators cloaked in religious clothing. What a slime-ball...

Polygamists ALWAYS prey on young girls...in a polygamous society there are no single women in their 30's or 40's, women that age are already married and have a dozen kids. If a 55 year old polygamist wants another wife, the only females available are adolescent.

Rob Parkers law firm (Snow Christensen & Martineau) has defended FLDS sex predators for over a decade, and that same law firm represents the State of Utah and it's agencies. FLDS perpetrators bleed 30,000,000 a year from taxpayers and a good bit of that BLOOD MONEY ends up in Parker's pocket. Imagine a career of defending child rapists...

Hat's off to the Mormon woman who said Utah and Arizona should have acted long ago...

BANKING ON HEAVEN

realitycheck | 11:48 a.m. Aug. 13, 2008

I hadn't realized that the FLDS had never registered as a church, only as a corporation. So all the talk by naysayers about how the evidence could be squashed due to clergy privilege were pretty much just blowing smoke.

outstanding.

I also hadn't thought about the bleed-the-beast money being used to pay Parker. If I was a Utah or Arizona resident, I'd be pretty mad about my taxes paying to defend a bunch of child abusers.

and to John Lambert - forced rape isn't just physical rape. A person/child can be forcibly raped through mental intimidation and coercion. You might not think of it that way, but then you've probably never been in that kind of situation. It's just like it is for a POW, or someone with Stockholm Syndrome.

And believe me - the children of FLDS definitely have Stockholm Syndrome....

common sense | 1:47 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008

It seems very strange to me, that only 26 men from that ranch gave DNA. If their children were so precious to them, why werent they there when the DNA office opened?
So, there are over half these children who CPS has NO DNA for a father.
We keep hearing Flds have nothing to Hide, then why are the men running from their responsibilty?
You hide because there was and is illegal activity going on within FLDS.

Laurie... | 2:51 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008

I do believe the FLDS has tax exempt status, and according to ex-Senator Linda Binder in BANKING ON HEAVEN, that tax exempt status should be stripped away. I mean really folks, pedophile prophets getting a tax break... give me a break!

Lazy legislatures and law enforcement in Utah and Arizona don't care about the thousands of women and children in their States being systematically mind controlled and raped. Clearly they'd rather go home at 5pm and drink martinis. Cleaning up polygamy is far more work then they're willing to do...

BANKING ON HEAVEN

some utah guy. | 3:26 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008

realitycheck,

Your tax money does go to pay for the defense of criminals including child abusers. It is called a court appointed attorney. This happens all the time.

GO TEXAS | 3:35 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008

Well well! Texas will someday soon feel sorry for what they have done to the FLDS, but someday soon will be too late. Always the truth: TRUTH WILL PREVAIL and it will. Texas and every other state that has persecuted the FLDS will have to soon own up to what they have done. Utah, Arizona, and every other state that puts their hand against these people will get their reward. Are you curious of what the reward will be? Well, PUNISHMENT, PUNISHMENT, PUNISHMENT!!! More punishment than they can imagine. There is absolutely no other people on earth that could hold up to the virtues and statutes that these people hold up to. NONE of them smoke. NONE of them wear anything, but appropriate clothing. NONE of them drink or swear or chew. NOW, what is up with this? If these people are considered the worst of all men and women on the face of the earth and they do none of this??????? THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!

re - GO TEXAS 3:35pm | 5:54 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008

what?

what does smoking have to do with anything? When did smoking become a sin? didn't God create tobacco?

what is "appropriate clothing"? Do you really think it's "appropriate" for kids to have to wear long johns in the summer? What's wrong with shorts and a t-shirt? (that's what Warren Jeffs was wearing when he was arrested.) God ever say "be totally covered"?

what is wrong with drinking in moderation? or mild swearing as long as you aren't using God's name in vain? And what do you consider swearing? It's not the same thing it was 100 yrs ago.

And no one ever said FLDS were "the worst of all men and women on the face of the earth". But you're certainly not the kindest, given how you treat your followers.

You read some books and listened to some men that told you what to do... and you believed them. And yet you fail to follow God's only real rule... "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". If you did, you wouldn't treat your people the way you do.

You have tons of crazy rules yet miss out on the main one. That's really sad.

realitycheck | 6:05 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008

re GO TEXAS 3:35pm:

for the hundredth time, religion is no reason to repress, isolate, and abuse, and condemn children to your way of life.

You talk about punishment, yet I would think God is about as displeased with you as He can get. Keep it up - He's watching.

and throwing out some minor supposed "rightousness" things like not smoking (which isn't even a sin) won't help you when you continue to do all your other evils things - like handing over your children like pieces of meat. How is that virtuous?

Kilbarry1 | 6:47 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008

Quote from Houston Chronicle: "One of the indicted men was also charged with bigamy, which in Texas covers anyone who marries or purports to marry more than one person. The Texas law was recently amended to include the "spiritual marriages" that are common within the group."

I knew that Texas raised the age of consent from 14 to 16 in 2005 specifically in order to target the FLDS. However I did not realise that the definition of Bigamy was also deliberately changed to target this group. In every other country that I know of, "Bigamy" means REGISTERING a second marriage with the State while your first marriage is still valid. It does NOT mean a married man who has a mistress, a one-night-stand or visits prostitutes. It certainly does not include the concept of a "spiritual marriage".

Do all of the anti-FLDS people approve of this change as well? Would you all agree to jail married men who have mistresses - and maybe jail the women also?

concerned in Colorado | 11:07 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008

The FLDS has moved into our county and neighboring county in Colorado. We are a very small county (3500 pop.)and do not want our community to become another Hildale or Colorado City. I say "GO TEXAS". Someone has to stand up to the human rights abuses and fraud! I hope our state will follow suite.

to GO TEXAS | 11:49 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008

see - that's exactly the extremist and wild views that got you into this in the first place.

Wasn't the world supposed to have ended already? What happened? Some of your "prophets" have picked dates long gone now.

Do you REALLY think the great hand of the Lord is going to come down and smite everyone but you? Do you REALLY believe you are better than everyone else? It's a nice idea for you but pretty much a fantasy.

And in fact, since you force your ways onto innocent children, I'd say you were a lot worse off than many. So if there's any "smiting" to be done, you might want to tuck and roll....

Just because someone told you that you're better than everyone else and you're "chosen" doesn't make it true. Better learn how to treat people that trust you before you count on that reservation in heaven.

There's more to being "rightous" than not smoking or drinking or in wearing prairie dresses. In fact, that doesn't even matter. How you treat others will far outweigh any of your examples. And you are sorely behind the eight-ball on that front.

good luck and godspeed. you'll need it.

To concerned in Colorado | 6:45 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008

Once upon a time in Germany, Jews were also kicked out of areas for being well, Jewish. It was claimed they committed many crimes which ultimately turned out to be false. I find it marvelously hypocritical that John Edwards has a mistress for years, and now allegedly a child = therefore a second family. Because he did not legally acknowledge that second "wife" there is no crime, but flds men that have the honor to spiritually marry are charged with a crime.

Did some FLDS men commit crimes? Yes, but at a lower rate than outside the compound.

Grandpa Phil | 8:04 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008

RC, I'm not in denial of the facts, I'm in denial that you have any of the facts. Neither does anyone else. We have the same 'ole accusations being flaunted by the same 'ole camp followers and STILL no facts on the street to back them up. Like I have said a hundred times in here, get the facts and use them in a REAL court of law and prosecute real crimes and you will have ALL of our support. UNTIL THEN, all of the bluster and innuendo in the WORLD will not convince me that there is substance to the accusations. You said that all of the "whiners" in here are eating crow now; not true. Your definition of "whiners" is anyone who hasn't hung the FLDS yet. Can't say I even know what crow tastes like. Unlike you, I am not one to convict people in Kangaroo Courts or the court of public opinion. When REAL convictions come for REAL crimes backed up by REAL evidence, I will stand beside you and lead the HIP HIP HOORAH!!! cheers for justice. Until then, I might suggest you keep that plate of crow in a warming oven close by.

to concerned reply 6:45am | 8:52 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008

how can you possibly compare your example to FLDS? It's not even in the same league. And why do you continually think this is about polygamy? That's not even an issue. It's the repression, isolation, and constant abuse of the women and children that's the issue.

If you haven't figured that out yet, you never will. And if the FLDS thinks polygamy is the issue here, they will never be left alone. You could live next door to us all and have 5 wives and 30 kids and we wouldn't care - as long as you support them, they get a decent education, and you're not hiding them from a future of their choosing. That assumes you don't abuse them of course.

I didn't know John Edwards is going to isolate and repress his other child. Interesting. Is he also going to prevent the child from fulfilling his or her dreams? I seriously doubt it. In fact, I imagine the child will have added help finding it's place in the world, rather than be forced into isolation and servitude.

You really have no clue what this is all about, do you? How very sad for you and the FLDS....

realitycheck | 10:21 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008

Phil,

I really don't care whether these people have committed crimes that are on the books (even though it's obvious). As far as I'm concerned, just the way they isolate and repress their children is a crime against freedom and needs to be fixed.

You and I have totally different ideas on what the definition of freedom is. Your freedom only applies to parents, and especially fathers. My freedom applies to everyone, especially women and children. That's where we differ.

You protect those in power while I root for those being taken advantage of.

Personally, I like my side better, but that's just me. And I don't care whether you eat crow or cheer - if it doesn't help the children get free from this repression, isolation, and abuse, it really doesn't matter to me.

Yes, there's freedom of religion. That gives you the right to pre-determine the futures of thousands of children? Maybe legally, but not ethically or morally. And just because it's legal doesn't mean I have to like it, and I'll continue to state that it needs to be fixed by whatever means. You just stay in your little bubble and keep out of the way.

lol to concerned reply | 11:43 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008

too funny that you would compare John Edward's child to the FLDS.

Ask 10,000,000 people who they would rather be - John Edward's child or an FLDS child, an 9,999,990 will say John Edward's child with barely a thought. That's because they know the child will get a fair shake at life, unlike an FLDS child. (The 10 people that would prefer to be an FLDS child are Grandpa Phil, zxcvbnm, and 8 brainwashed FLDS parents).

Doesn't that tell you anything? Oh - wait - I forgot - you are the chosen people so we must be crazy to not want to be like you..... we are soon to be "smitten" from the face of the earth. Maybe I should change my mind...... nah - not partial to repression and abuse. I'd rather live free and maybe be a pilot or a scientist rather than an abused mandatory mother of 12.

still waiting to be smitten. Could you give me a timeline? what says your "prophet"? I like to plan ahead...

eating crow | 11:59 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008

well, Grandpa Phil - if you have never eaten crow, I suggest you try it. It's very humbling, and you could use a dose of humility.

meant smite | 12:49 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

obviously I meant smite, not smitten on my 11:43am post. I'm not waiting to be smitten - I'm smitten with my wife....

Glenn Fuller | 2:39 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

Hate crimes against the FLDS by the Texas authorities. SS KGB type goons.

The sham should end.

re Glenn Fuller | 3:10 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

yes - the sham should end. Hate crimes against the children, perpetrated by their parents. SS KGB type goons forcing children into servitude and repression.

The sham should end. free the children from a life of servitude and repression in the FLDS. this is america. let the children choose their future.

zxcvbnm | 5:28 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

Everyone uses the "sneaking around" issue to try to understand the bigamy-polgamy vs mistress issue.
The US supreme court has no issue with multiple partners......adultery is not even a punishable seperate offense anymore. Consensual sex between consenting adults is legal......one or twentyone partners........male or female is none of the governments business and the government said so.
The adultry and sneaking issue are religious ....morality issues not open to government regulation or interpretation......so says the government.
Living with a group of free love hippies on a commune or as a church isn't the issue here.
The age of consent to sex is the issue.

re; Go Texas 3:35 | 6:03 a.m. Aug. 15, 2008

It's called wolf in sheeps clothing. Rape of a child, and that is what a 12 year old is, a child, and brainwashing and manipulation is not okay, regardless of what pretty, perfect little package it is wrapped up in. If a few girls are rescued this will all have been worth it!!Go Texas!!!

zxcvbnm | 10:40 a.m. Aug. 15, 2008

I laugh my hiney off when many say religion and polygamy are not the issue.
Jeffs uses fundamental LDS teachings to justify his actions. The BOM(pre78) is his guide and polygamy is the tool that has he used to get in the position he and the church are in today.
Bigamy charges stem from the practice of polygamy and teen marraiges are justified by biblical interpretations and 19th Century church history.
Lets get to the root cause of this mess instead of beating around the bush.

Grandpa Phil | 11:35 a.m. Aug. 15, 2008

Uhm, zxcvbnm, sorry, but must correct one thing. Adultery is still a punishable crime under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. It is still prosecuted under military law even between consenting adults because it is "contrary to good conduct and discipline" and can undermine morale in a unit depending upon the "players". Wrongful cohabitation - two unmarried adults living together - is also punishable under the same Paragragh. Since I work on a military base in NC, I hear about these kinds of prosecutions on a regular basis.

realitycheck | 3:34 p.m. Aug. 15, 2008

and I "laugh my hiney off" when people say it IS about religion and polygamy.

Polygamy is simply the tool being used by authorities to break up this band of repressive slaveowners. No one really cares how many wives (or husbands) people have.

You are confusing the published and discussed issue with what the real problem is....

think about it.

and while Phil is a bundle of info, the FLDS do not serve in the military so the UCMJ doesn't apply to them. But you're right - that is UCMJ code - and a good one, since we can't have people trained to kill running around screwing each others wives. Now that's a dangerous situation...

zxcvbnm | 3:40 p.m. Aug. 15, 2008

Well gramps..........the military gets a pass on a lot of things by going the 'order and discipline route". Don't ask don't tell is another example of rules that don't apply in the civilian world.
But hey........can't have those gays or adulters carrying a gun......they might shoot the straights or their lovers husband.

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