Deseret News | Reader comments: LDS gays pushing church for progress

Reader comments
LDS gays pushing church for progress

Prosecutor | 5:15 a.m. Aug. 11, 2008

RE: "LDS Gays Pushing for Progress"

Progress? Seeking to counsel the Lord and remake the Church in their own image is progress?

Trotting out that discredited lie that suicide rates are higher among Church members is progress?

Blaming the Church for the cognitive dissonance suffered by those who demand to be saved in sin, rather than saved from it, is progress?

I'd say progress is just about the last thing they're pushing the Church for.

Don't Ask , Don't Tell | 6:04 a.m. Aug. 11, 2008

The article states: "Throughout the church, families are being broken apart, often forever, because family members don't know how to deal with a loved one who tells them that he or she is gay."

Might I suggest THAT YOU JUST DON'T TELL. After all, there are huge numbers of other Church members who are living happy family lives and happy lives in the Church today because they have "kept their mouths closed" about all kinds of things-- ie: past sins that were properly repented of, past mistakes or bad decisions, unhappy, unfortunate often devastating experiences, current sins being honestly and properly dealt with, emotional or mental or physical issues of all kinds, and untold numbers of other "untold" things. I say all this from experience. It doesn't help, and isn't fair, for family members to know some things. You may counter, "Well, I am marginalized by not being allowed to tell everybody everything about myself." NOT SO. You are performing the greatest service and the greatest self-sacrifice by keeping it between you and the Lord. JUST LIVE THE COMMANDMENTS AND KEEP YOUR COVENANTS, and some fine future day, it will all be okay. You're not alone in this

Danny C. | 8:29 a.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Is it just me or is the DesNews doing a lot of repeat articles lately, with just the headlines changed?

Comments continue below

Amen | 8:59 a.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Amen to Prosecutor

Amen and Amen | 9:09 a.m. Aug. 11, 2008

I too agree with Prosecutor

Karl | 9:22 a.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Same old stuff, new headline is right.

Same people will write on this blog giving logical, well thought out ideas, based on the laws of the United States, based on human rights, based on intelligence, and most of all based on common modern day sense.

The same people will come on hear yelling about scriptures, bibles, and evil, and sin, and how they have the right to control the lives of other people in these United States of America in the year 2008.

It will take time, but hopefully not to long, before all citizens of this wonderful country share the same rights as prescribed by our constitution.

I am married, straight as an arrow and teach my children about treating people with dignity, and humanity. I wish all people could see the light about real Christianity.

Ed H | 12:12 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Yes, this is certainly the church of the Jesus I learned about in Sunday school. He would not let anyone into his church who was not already perfect. Why did he come to earth anyway? Didn't we already know that if you were not perfect, you couldn't go to heaven and, therefore, did not deserve to be ministered to by a church? I guess John's writings of what Jesus said about loving one another surely must be wrong. Probably the Bible was not interpreted correctly in that passage. Maybe what gay religious people are asking for is not progress... maybe they are simply asking to be treated as Jesus preached we should treat each other over 2000 years ago.

There is no persecution | 12:44 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

The LDS church has never persecuted gays (though some members may have). The Church has been very consistent in requiring members to follow its doctrine and part of that doctrine is that homosexual activity is sin. It has never said being attracted to the same sex is a sin, despite the untruths that Affirmation claims. Look at any church talk on the subject and they teach to love the person with those attractions, but not the sin.

Thomas | 12:51 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Ed, the issue here is not that a church should allow people in who are "not already perfect." The issue is that the gay-rights movement is trying to convince Christendom that there is anything "imperfect" about alternative sexuality in the first place. It's an article of their faith that to call gay sex a sin is itself sinful.

So, no -- "gay religious people" are not "simply asking to be treated as Jesus preached we should treat each other over 2,000 years ago." Like it or not, the only sexual arrangement endorsed by Jesus in the Gospels was marriage between a man and a woman, and everything else appears to have been classed as "fornication." And Paul (whose writings Christians have, for 2,000 years, recognized as equally authoritative as the actual words of Jesus in the Gospels) specifically condemned homosexual sex.

Now, that doesn't make any of it necessarily right or wrong. All it means is that you can't honestly stuff the normalization of homosexuality into a Christian box, without totally reconstructing the latter.

Re: prosecutor | 1:21 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Exactly. The word progress is being used to make it sound good and better. When it's just a lie. I want to add that there is no such thing as a "Gay Mormom." If they are practicing that lifestyle, they are not members in good standing and have either been excommunicated, or only haven't because of inactivity and church leaders not knowing about it. At the same time, no one, not anyone, has the right to ridicule to shun someone who has made such choices. They are priceless to the Lord, just like all of God's children and should be treated with genuine love and respect. But that doesn't include continuing a lie.

Dave | 2:13 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

My son has same sex attraction. While he does not broadcast it, he has characteristics that cause many to draw the conclusion. It is difficult for him to be with some LDS people because of their attitudes towards gays. It is difficult for us as his parents to watch this. We love him and want him to be as happy as possible in this life. Being gay is a huge challenge. It is as much a part of him as our personalities are part of us. He said asking him to be strait is as strange to him as asking us to change our orientation and becoming gay. He is just pointing out to us that people with same sex attraction feel very alienated and traped. He is a very loving person and can't imagine never feeling the complete love (sexual and non-sexual) that married couples feel. He sees my wife and I and the strong love we have and he feels very alone and hopeless. Where does he fit in Heavenly Father's plan? Why was he born with such a heavy burden? How do we help him? What can we tell him?

TO Thomas> | 2:29 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Do you believe that all scriptures in all religions are the true word of God?

Do you, with all your heart and soul, believe everything ever written as the word of God in the New Testament, Old Testament, and the Bom ( if you are LDS)?

to Dave: | 2:46 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

All you can do is love your son. But it is your son that needs to take this burden to the Lord and ask for help. He may even want to go to his bishop (which is a huge help for those who are struggling). You can advise and love him and help him with his goals if he decides to do something.

Karl | 2:50 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

To Dave.
You just have to always let him know that he is unconditionly loved by you and yours always.

If you are a very religious person, I can see that you need to let your son know that he is not less of a person in the eyes of God.

Please consider that all religion is only Theory at best, that includes every religion that has ever had a following.

To let your son suffer because of religion would be criminal.

John Pack Lambert | 4:17 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

The fact that man members who suffer from same-gender attraction commit suicide can not be blamed on the leaders of the church.
Studies have shown that even in areas where homosexuality is fully accepted the practitioners of homosexuality have a much highter suicide rate than the overall population.
It is not Elder Holland's fault that more people have not read his well written article on this subject in the Ensign.
I also take objection to the Affirmation person saying that the church has changed its doctrine on same gender attraction. Spencer W. Kimball was very clear that what he was condemning was homosexual acts. People may not have fully understood all the factors of same gender attraction than, and in fact we do not understand them now, but that does not mean that church leaders in the past ever said that people who felt ueges and desires of attraction to those of the same gender were sinful.
What has happened is that we have come to see that the factors that create sexual atttraction are deep and hard to control. There is not a change in doctrine.

John Pack Lambert | 4:23 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

I reccomend that everyone read Elder Holland's article in the October 2007 Ensign.
To Dave,
Your son needs to realize that having attraction to those of the opposite gender is what God wants for him. It may not be easy or even possible in this life, but it is part of the plan. We can not pridefully hold on to our failings, but must have a desire to reject them, even if it is difficult.

MY SLC to Dave | 4:52 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

Dave, the best thing to do is to let your son know you love and support him. Depending on his age and independence I would advise him to get out of Utah if you are here now. College, jobs & careers are all great incentives and will build self confidence..

I am a gay male, son of a bishop, 6th generation Utah / Mormon. I left the state for 15 years. Best thing I did. I came back after I had matured and built a career. Also the company had a opening and the relocation was set up.

My partner and I live in downtown SLC, own a house and love it. The family is acceptive, (not always approving) and acknowledges how things are. No one tries to the do the ï¿½guilt thingï¿½ on the others.

Getting away and having him build a life for himself is the best.

To John Pack Lambert | 4:54 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

How do you pretend to know what God thinks?
Scripture was written by men. The same men who gave us killing gays, stoning women, and killing our kids who disobey us.

I pose the same question to you as the above post.
Is all scripture in all religions true?

Do you believe with all you heart that everything written about God in the old testiment and new testiment is true? How about the BOM?

Did god make hermaphrodites because they get to choose which sex they can be? How silly we can be.

If you want conversation that effects real lives, use intelligence and logic please. Religion belongs in church where you can believe in magic stones, capes, hats, and burning witch's.

Thomas | 5:41 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

"TO Thomas" -- No, and no. Where are you going with that?

steve | 11:00 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008

the issues of homosexuality and the church position on it is one deals with temporal desires which is homosexuality and the one spiritual commandments of God which is the church. i believe that gays and lesbians might be better off which includes gay members of the church to find other churches that support their lifestyles and views. this includes lds members. the church promotes the spreading of the gospel of jesus christ and eternal life. it is not a church about pop culture and interpreting correct doctrine from the eyes of men. get over it.

LDSBOY | 12:16 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008

The Lord's gospel is perfect. His church is perfect. It's members are not perfect. The Lord's gospel will not change. It is the same forever. Gay sex does not promote the Plan of Salvation. There seems to be some changes in the definition of gay. Are you gay if you prefer the same sex but do not act upon it? True and faithful members of the church will have a desire to follow the Lord's plan. His plan means marriage and children. If you say you are gay, and you are not acting out on your desires, how can you consider yourself faithful members of the Lord's church? You should be praying for strength to have desires taken away, the strength to resist temptations, the knowledge of what people, places, and things made lead you to temptation. Before a sin is committed you have to think about it. A thought occurs before you act.
If the suicide information is true, look at the parents and families. The church is here to help and support. But, don't expect the church to help you be gay. They will not. They can help you with those feelings.

The Deuce | 1:23 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008

We continue to debate this issue when both sides have completely different agendas/points of view to start with. First, the Gay/Lesbian movement is all about acceptance. We have been taught tolerance of others who do not share our beliefs, which is right. But to keep pushing an agenda that is directed towards complete acceptance is what this issue is all about. Civil rights is not the issue as these rights are already in place for Gay/Lesbian couples. This movement is trying to redefine the term marriage in an attempt to gain acceptance. This term has been defined and has been beneficial for society for ages. We do not need another definition that fits only a minority of people. The Gay/Lesbian movement continues to confuse the issue stating that they are fighting for rights they already have. Civil rights are not the issue. Both sides need to state the obvious and get moving forward from there.

trey | 2:51 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

all i have to say is that everyone talks about gay being a sin and this and than but we all sin everyday, all the time...it is critical to look at one own life and see that you too are sinfilled. No one, I mean no one is sin free. That goes for the Pope to the crackhead on the street. if you stole a pen at the doctors office, or lied about something on your taxes, or told your son or daughter to tell the person on the other end of the phone that you were not at home...that is a lie and thats a sin. Lets not look at the sin that people claim is so big and flaunted in the media...we all know we do things that are not right everyday even without thinking.

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