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LDS leader's '07 address still causing controversy
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Follower | 2:19 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
Sister Beck is not focused on the resume she will leave behind or her ego or her
power to control others in the world? She doesn't even have a hyphenated
name. Wow what a fool she is. All she will have in the after life is the reward
she gets for being a selfless servant of her fellow beings and her maker. All
she will have is the love she built between her, her family and others. What a
pity.
Take a second look | 2:45 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
Maybe if you really looked at what Sister Beck said, this wouldn't be such
a discussion.
She said nothing about women having to have children - she said "mothers who know DESIRE to bear children". She speaks of ironed clothes and brushed hair as an example - people she has actually seen - of how mothers can influence their children to "desired eternal goals". She doesn't speak of having an immaculate home, but making a home that has a climate for SPIRITUAL GROWTH. It's hard to have scripture study if you can't find a place to sit down!
Go through the talk people. You can find offense anywhere you look hard enough, but I just find a woman showing me the ideal. When she says "Latter-day Saint women should be the very best in the world at upholding, nurturing, and protecting families" I believe that - as a group. If you truly believe the LDS faith is the Lord's church, than as a group we should be able to do his work the best, and that includes raising families.
She said nothing about women having to have children - she said "mothers who know DESIRE to bear children". She speaks of ironed clothes and brushed hair as an example - people she has actually seen - of how mothers can influence their children to "desired eternal goals". She doesn't speak of having an immaculate home, but making a home that has a climate for SPIRITUAL GROWTH. It's hard to have scripture study if you can't find a place to sit down!
Go through the talk people. You can find offense anywhere you look hard enough, but I just find a woman showing me the ideal. When she says "Latter-day Saint women should be the very best in the world at upholding, nurturing, and protecting families" I believe that - as a group. If you truly believe the LDS faith is the Lord's church, than as a group we should be able to do his work the best, and that includes raising families.
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 3:25 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
Validity draws the fire.
Re: Bruce Willis | 3:34 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
What's a hourse?
Me | 3:43 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
Maybe Ms. Toscano would rather live in a patriarchy such as Africa, any Muslim
country, India or China, where women provide for the family and bear the
children, raising them primarily on their own and the men take all of the money.
I don't think that is what you are seeing in the Mormon culture. Sister
Beck was speaking to Mothers. If a woman isn't a mother, than maybe she
wasn't speaking to those that aren't raising children. Sister Beck
has stated that she didn't write the talk, but that it was given her of
God. What is God's opinion about who you are and what you should be?
Wheat and the tares | 3:44 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
Wheat and the tares...You cannot petition and protest truth away. Great leaders
are unapologetic about truth, and care more speaking it than being popular.
Sister Beck is in pretty good company: Abinadi, Samuel the Lamanite, Joseph
Smith...
Interesting... | 3:56 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
Its amazing to me how much discussion is taking place on a talk that was given
in 2007! Both sides of the debate need to get a life and stop arguing about
something that is a pointless argument to begin with.
Only in Mormon Land can a discussion take place over what is right and what is wrong when it comes to parenting. I don't support 100% of what Sister Beck said but I don't condemn it. Sure it made it through the "Powers that be" and it was presented with approval. However, we all make the choice whether to cry about it or personally accept it.
My wife and I can't have kids and have more right to be offended over this talk than most...Are we still thinking about a talk given in General Conference months ago?
NOPE! We have more important things to do.
One last thing. Just because it comes from "The Church," it doesn't necessarily mean its doctrine. There have been many things that have been said and done that weren't inspired.
Only in Mormon Land can a discussion take place over what is right and what is wrong when it comes to parenting. I don't support 100% of what Sister Beck said but I don't condemn it. Sure it made it through the "Powers that be" and it was presented with approval. However, we all make the choice whether to cry about it or personally accept it.
My wife and I can't have kids and have more right to be offended over this talk than most...Are we still thinking about a talk given in General Conference months ago?
NOPE! We have more important things to do.
One last thing. Just because it comes from "The Church," it doesn't necessarily mean its doctrine. There have been many things that have been said and done that weren't inspired.
Consider the Ego | 3:56 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
I'm an educated woman with letters after my name. Big woop. Sister
Beck's talk was inspired, uplifting, and full of wisdom. It may be time
for many of her critics to thoughtfully consider the role of their own egos. I
had children late in my marriage, especially for Utah. I'm now a full-time
mother and health challenges preclude me from having as many children as I would
like. I am, in the words of Siddharta Gautama, "working out my own
salvation," and not everyone else's, through the miracle of
Christ's Atonement. Sunstone and Beck's critics would do well to
remember that "men go crazy in congregations, they only get better one by
one."
To: I have letters after my name | 4:18 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
Ha! I just read your post and it sounds exactly like mine (see mine:
"Consider the Ego"). We should get together. It sounds like
you're a few years ahead of me; I'd love to get some advice sometime.
Toscano | 4:37 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
Why go to Margaret Toscano for commentary. She is an ex-communicated member that
talks freely of her disagreements with church leaders and policies. What kind of
comments do you expect to get from her?
Chuck Farley | 4:37 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
In the immortal words of Don Henley - "Get over it!"
Big Whoop | 4:44 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
To Consider the Ego,
I would bet a small fortune that I have more letters behind my name than you do. If that is a "big whoop" for you, then it did not need to be said at all, right?!
I confess, your point is somewhat important, if people would really abide by it. I feel the same way. Where you and I differ is that I found nothing Sister Beck said to give my any help in working out my own salvation. Her talk was completely and entirely worthless in helping me with that.
My response to her talk was (and still is): Big Whoop! It was a waste of time to listen to it.
I would bet a small fortune that I have more letters behind my name than you do. If that is a "big whoop" for you, then it did not need to be said at all, right?!
I confess, your point is somewhat important, if people would really abide by it. I feel the same way. Where you and I differ is that I found nothing Sister Beck said to give my any help in working out my own salvation. Her talk was completely and entirely worthless in helping me with that.
My response to her talk was (and still is): Big Whoop! It was a waste of time to listen to it.
LW | 6:16 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
From Sister Beck's talk:
"Mothers who know desire to bear children. Whereas in many cultures in the world children are �becoming less valued,�2 in the culture of the gospel we still believe in having children. Prophets, seers, and revelators who were sustained at this conference have declared that �God�s commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force.�3
Some women are not given the responsibility of bearing children in mortality, but . . . the value women place on motherhood in this life and the attributes of motherhood they attain here will rise with them in the Resurrection (see D&C 130:18)."
Many people have mentioned that this talk was not directed at everyone (single, childless, men, etc), but I disagree. Clearly Sister Beck was teaching the PRINCIPLE of motherhood - not merely the act of it. Principles need to be learned and understood by all. An early commandment given to humanity was to be fruitful and multiply, and Sister Beck was reminding us of the universality and eternal nature of that commandment. Her talk included examples of the types of acts that might help us develop the attributes of motherhood.
"Mothers who know desire to bear children. Whereas in many cultures in the world children are �becoming less valued,�2 in the culture of the gospel we still believe in having children. Prophets, seers, and revelators who were sustained at this conference have declared that �God�s commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force.�3
Some women are not given the responsibility of bearing children in mortality, but . . . the value women place on motherhood in this life and the attributes of motherhood they attain here will rise with them in the Resurrection (see D&C 130:18)."
Many people have mentioned that this talk was not directed at everyone (single, childless, men, etc), but I disagree. Clearly Sister Beck was teaching the PRINCIPLE of motherhood - not merely the act of it. Principles need to be learned and understood by all. An early commandment given to humanity was to be fruitful and multiply, and Sister Beck was reminding us of the universality and eternal nature of that commandment. Her talk included examples of the types of acts that might help us develop the attributes of motherhood.
Beck Misses the Mark | 7:05 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
re:LW
"Clearly Sister Beck was teaching the PRINCIPLE of motherhood".
Soooooo...
The principle of motherhood can be taught in 10 minutes?
It's cut and dry, either you are the perfect mom (Stay at Home), or you are not (you work because you are selfish).
Mothering to do with controlling your six kids while you stay at home. Keep them out of the neighbors garden, don't let them out with a can of spray paint. These "Mothers Who Know" do nothing to control them in church. They climb, they eat, they color. I'm always missing the talks in church, picking up toys for the stay at home's kids, cleaning up their snacks, and trying to keep their "goldfish" yellow hands off my suit while SAHM ignores her brood, and my children pay attention in church.
Sister Beck really missed the mark.
Just staying home, pumping out kids, and having family night doesn't cut it. Get work-horse father involved.
He's too tired?
I know many mothers who work whose chilren are well behaved, respectful, and spiritual.
To just say SAHM = good, Working mother = bad is an ignorant topic.
The only thing that offends me about the talk is the premise.
"Clearly Sister Beck was teaching the PRINCIPLE of motherhood".
Soooooo...
The principle of motherhood can be taught in 10 minutes?
It's cut and dry, either you are the perfect mom (Stay at Home), or you are not (you work because you are selfish).
Mothering to do with controlling your six kids while you stay at home. Keep them out of the neighbors garden, don't let them out with a can of spray paint. These "Mothers Who Know" do nothing to control them in church. They climb, they eat, they color. I'm always missing the talks in church, picking up toys for the stay at home's kids, cleaning up their snacks, and trying to keep their "goldfish" yellow hands off my suit while SAHM ignores her brood, and my children pay attention in church.
Sister Beck really missed the mark.
Just staying home, pumping out kids, and having family night doesn't cut it. Get work-horse father involved.
He's too tired?
I know many mothers who work whose chilren are well behaved, respectful, and spiritual.
To just say SAHM = good, Working mother = bad is an ignorant topic.
The only thing that offends me about the talk is the premise.
DT | 7:09 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
Whine about it!!!
Frustrated! | 7:42 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
I can't believe what I'm reading in some of these comments. We are
not mindless, we are not slaves, we make choices based on the spirit, and we are
not expected to be perfect mothers, but to strive to do our best.
The family is what the gospel is about, Satan knows this, and he's destroying it, and those of you offended by Beck's talk are supporting him in that effort.
To those who are offended with Sis. Beck's talk need to get on their knees and ask Heavenly Father if it is true, much like most of us did with the Book of Mormon. And then go from there. You are not defending the rights of all the women in the church by publicly criticizing Sister Beck, this is a matter to be dealt with between you and your Father in Heaven.
I sincerely hope, this is the last article I ever see on this topic.
The family is what the gospel is about, Satan knows this, and he's destroying it, and those of you offended by Beck's talk are supporting him in that effort.
To those who are offended with Sis. Beck's talk need to get on their knees and ask Heavenly Father if it is true, much like most of us did with the Book of Mormon. And then go from there. You are not defending the rights of all the women in the church by publicly criticizing Sister Beck, this is a matter to be dealt with between you and your Father in Heaven.
I sincerely hope, this is the last article I ever see on this topic.
Logan Tom's Fan | 8:18 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
On one side, we have the Gospel to give us guidelines...
On the other side, we have society to contradict the guidelines...
I wonder which side to pick?
On the other side, we have society to contradict the guidelines...
I wonder which side to pick?
Ha! To Big Whoop | 8:28 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
What makes you so sure you have the most letters? I find that rather
presumptive. The most important letters I've earned are M-A-M-A =)!
Respectfully,
Consider the Ego
Respectfully,
Consider the Ego
CP | 8:55 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
Hey I think most of those commented in the article are totally off the mark. But
I do applaud the lady who stood up to defend her role of a mother and to tell
the dude off afterwards who told her she was a slave. Motherhood is not a
disgusting role. And it appears to me that this Toscano sounds like another
Rocky Anderson. And anyone who follows someone like that is nuts. And I think
that these so called "mothers" who have signed a petition against the
talk of Sis. Beck just plain were not hearing what she was saying, and just came
to their own ding-dong conclusion about what she really said. Try reading it
again before you get your shorts all knotted up. And all you just need to take a
chill pill.
SAHM | 9:16 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
I'm sorry, can someone please help me out. What does SAHM mean?
I'll try to guess. You correct me if I'm wrong:
SAHM = Sheep Ambling as Homebound Mothers
SAHM = Self-righteous, Arrogant Home Makers
SAHM = Simpletons Aspiring to be Help Mates
SAHM = Staying Away from Higher Mentation
SAHM = Superiority Attitude about Home Making
... let me know if I'm getting close...
I'll try to guess. You correct me if I'm wrong:
SAHM = Sheep Ambling as Homebound Mothers
SAHM = Self-righteous, Arrogant Home Makers
SAHM = Simpletons Aspiring to be Help Mates
SAHM = Staying Away from Higher Mentation
SAHM = Superiority Attitude about Home Making
... let me know if I'm getting close...
Cindy | 9:26 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
Re: SAHM
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
Don't shoot the messanger | 9:32 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
"Wisdom is the principle thing, therefore, get wisdom, and with all thy
getting, get understanding". (Proverbs)
Self mastery brings lasting happiness. Thankfully when we stumble and fall short of expectations (self imposed or otherwise) we have the blessing of the Atonement to make us whole.
Don't shoot the messenger for preaching the principle...
Self mastery brings lasting happiness. Thankfully when we stumble and fall short of expectations (self imposed or otherwise) we have the blessing of the Atonement to make us whole.
Don't shoot the messenger for preaching the principle...
Re: ello | 9:55 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, and I'm a woman who
has spent nearly 30 years in the church.
President Hinckley was giving an interview a few years ago, and one of the questions asked was how the church treats its women. His reply is one of my favorite quotes, though I'm paraphrasing at the moment.
"How do we treat women in the church? We get out of their way! And then we stand back and marvel at all the things they are able to accomplish."
President Hinckley was giving an interview a few years ago, and one of the questions asked was how the church treats its women. His reply is one of my favorite quotes, though I'm paraphrasing at the moment.
"How do we treat women in the church? We get out of their way! And then we stand back and marvel at all the things they are able to accomplish."
unmet expectations | 9:59 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
re: reply at 1:16. I grew up in Utah and lived there 33 years. I know there are
many good people in Utah, but was responding to the poster who commented about
the high need for antidepressants in Utah. I remember in 1979 Sister Barbara
Smith, the General RS president at that time, gave a talk on KSL about Mormon
Women and Depression. I believe she said in part it was from women expecting
too much of themselves. I saw this all the time in Utah. The "steps to
perfection" wasn't unique to my ward. It was even suggested at a RS
presidency mtg here in CA by someone who heard about it from her sister in Utah.
It was instantly rejected. We compare ourselves at our worst against others at
their best and of course we fall short. Programs like this aren't helpful,
they just create more pressure. Women need to stop comparing and then trying to
be better than their neighbors. It's divisive and unhealthy. I loved Sis
Beck's talk because I can compete against myself to improve my life. Love,
serve, do your best and be happy.
in addition... | 10:05 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
I loved Sis. Beck's talk and would add the following:
Mothers who know watch their small children and don't let them wander the neighborhood unattended for hours on end. Mothers who know, know it is their responsibility to supervise their kids, not the rest of the neighborhood.
Mothers who know, know their limits. They don't expect to get a free pass simply because they're overwhelmed. Their 8th child deserves the same attention and care as their first and shouldn't be left to their own devices simply because Mommy is going through menopause with a toddler on her hip.
Mothers who know don't take the easy way out just because it's easier. They'll stick to a principle even if a child whines for two hours instead of giving in because the kids knows next time she'll cave eventually.
Mothers who know are willing to take their turn in Primary callings. Most of us would rather be in RS than dealing with her bratty undisciplined kids and she needs to do her fair share. Being with your kids all day is not a valid excuse. So were the rest of us and we take our turn.
Mothers who know watch their small children and don't let them wander the neighborhood unattended for hours on end. Mothers who know, know it is their responsibility to supervise their kids, not the rest of the neighborhood.
Mothers who know, know their limits. They don't expect to get a free pass simply because they're overwhelmed. Their 8th child deserves the same attention and care as their first and shouldn't be left to their own devices simply because Mommy is going through menopause with a toddler on her hip.
Mothers who know don't take the easy way out just because it's easier. They'll stick to a principle even if a child whines for two hours instead of giving in because the kids knows next time she'll cave eventually.
Mothers who know are willing to take their turn in Primary callings. Most of us would rather be in RS than dealing with her bratty undisciplined kids and she needs to do her fair share. Being with your kids all day is not a valid excuse. So were the rest of us and we take our turn.
CP | 10:40 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
To SAHM: YOU ARE SO RIGHT!
Lori | 10:48 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
I loved Sister Beck's talk. To me there is nothing better in the world
than the joy of being a mother. I have six children, now all grown. I loved
every minute of motherhood, and would go back and gladly do it all over again!
Thank you Sister Beck for your inspired words.
Nailed It you Mothers who Knew | 11:34 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
Dear:
in addition... | 10:05 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
unmet expectations | 9:59 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
SAHM | 9:16 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
This discussion is finally getting sensible. Now all of the Molly's and Anti's have had their say, isn't Motherhood about being the best mother you can to those precious little heavenly gifts, whether you choose to stay at home, or work? It's not either/or.
I know some sisters who marry money, or demand their husbands put in extra hours so they can stay at home, then hire maids and nannys, and get playdates to dump their kids off, and sit in the pew like a queen bee because they stay at home, and look down their noses at the less fortunate. Just like a closet alcoholic, they are one thing for show, but not really there for their kids.
Other moms take on small jobs, or even work full time, but do it to take the responsibility off the father so that he can be part of the family unit.
Others do it to shelter, feed and clothe their kids.
I applaud the Mothers Who Knew, well before the talk was given...
(Slow clap... Applause)
in addition... | 10:05 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
unmet expectations | 9:59 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
SAHM | 9:16 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
This discussion is finally getting sensible. Now all of the Molly's and Anti's have had their say, isn't Motherhood about being the best mother you can to those precious little heavenly gifts, whether you choose to stay at home, or work? It's not either/or.
I know some sisters who marry money, or demand their husbands put in extra hours so they can stay at home, then hire maids and nannys, and get playdates to dump their kids off, and sit in the pew like a queen bee because they stay at home, and look down their noses at the less fortunate. Just like a closet alcoholic, they are one thing for show, but not really there for their kids.
Other moms take on small jobs, or even work full time, but do it to take the responsibility off the father so that he can be part of the family unit.
Others do it to shelter, feed and clothe their kids.
I applaud the Mothers Who Knew, well before the talk was given...
(Slow clap... Applause)
re:re:Bruce Willis | 11:49 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
Boy, that sure helped the discussion along. Do you feel better now that you had
a chance to make someone feel less than you?
I read it and saw it also, but I knew it was a horse.
I'm guessing you're a person who lives to point out everyone's imperfections, because you have low self esteem, and pointing out errors makes you feel superior to all of the rest of the world.
It's ok.
You can relax, this is a posting board, none of us know who you are. None of us care what you are, only you should care.
Isn't that what this whole thing is about? Everyone thinks they have to be perfect, and if you can make someone less than you, that makes you better?
Life is not a "zero-sum gain". We can all win.
Every mother who cares about her children, who bandages their cuts, who has a soft word when they need it, who puts her children before herself, working or not, is a valiant soilder in God's army, and he cares, and knows who you are.
You are special and worthy of his love.
I'll give you another chance to let it go.
HOURSE.
I read it and saw it also, but I knew it was a horse.
I'm guessing you're a person who lives to point out everyone's imperfections, because you have low self esteem, and pointing out errors makes you feel superior to all of the rest of the world.
It's ok.
You can relax, this is a posting board, none of us know who you are. None of us care what you are, only you should care.
Isn't that what this whole thing is about? Everyone thinks they have to be perfect, and if you can make someone less than you, that makes you better?
Life is not a "zero-sum gain". We can all win.
Every mother who cares about her children, who bandages their cuts, who has a soft word when they need it, who puts her children before herself, working or not, is a valiant soilder in God's army, and he cares, and knows who you are.
You are special and worthy of his love.
I'll give you another chance to let it go.
HOURSE.
re:Wheat and the Tares | 12:06 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
"Great leaders are unapologetic about truth, and care more speaking it than
being popular."
Pure, honest people are great because of who they are.
That's good company also. Gordon B. Hinckley, Spencer Wooley Kimball, David O. McKay, Gahndi, Jesus, Dr. King, Muhammed Ali, Rosa Parks, Cesear Chavez, George Washington, John Adams, Mother Teresa, Abraham Lincoln, Nelson Mandela, Stephen Biko, Joseph Smith Junior, Moses, my mother, my father, my grandfather, my grandmother, my first grade teacher, my wife, my two sweet daughters... all pure and honest.
Most have no letters behind their names, some had titles that preceded their names, but they were not great because of their titles.
Nope, they were great because they were pure and honest. They did not lead their lives worried what others thought. It was all between themselves and God. No one had to set a standard for them. They set it themselves.
So please, grab the caravan to heaven and enjoy the ride. I'll just be living here trying to figure out what God has in store for me, and then doing it. I'll see ya'all in the hereafter, and I just hope that I am worthy to sit at the feet of God.
Pure, honest people are great because of who they are.
That's good company also. Gordon B. Hinckley, Spencer Wooley Kimball, David O. McKay, Gahndi, Jesus, Dr. King, Muhammed Ali, Rosa Parks, Cesear Chavez, George Washington, John Adams, Mother Teresa, Abraham Lincoln, Nelson Mandela, Stephen Biko, Joseph Smith Junior, Moses, my mother, my father, my grandfather, my grandmother, my first grade teacher, my wife, my two sweet daughters... all pure and honest.
Most have no letters behind their names, some had titles that preceded their names, but they were not great because of their titles.
Nope, they were great because they were pure and honest. They did not lead their lives worried what others thought. It was all between themselves and God. No one had to set a standard for them. They set it themselves.
So please, grab the caravan to heaven and enjoy the ride. I'll just be living here trying to figure out what God has in store for me, and then doing it. I'll see ya'all in the hereafter, and I just hope that I am worthy to sit at the feet of God.
Odds and Ends | 1:24 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
To some who have commented on friends and sisters who are beating themselves up
with the stick they are measured by, I would suggest some prioritizing. God, nor
the Church, expects any of us to "run faster than we are able",
including mothers. Do the best you can, do all you can, but you can't do
it ALL, and you shouldn't feel that you have to.
I have raised 9 children and helped raise 4 stepchildren. I LOVE being a mother. My own mother couldn't have children, so she and dad adopted me and my sister. I know wonderful women who have not had children, but they "mother" all the children in their Primary class, or nieces and nephews. Being a mother means doing the best we can do, with the help of the Lord and loved ones around us, to raise our children to be decent, honorable people. Sometimes I have been able to stay home, especially when they were young. Sometimes I've had to work due to financial need. I've cleaned motel rooms, taking my children with me. They learned how to work together, and we have good memories of those times. I worked at school, too.
I have raised 9 children and helped raise 4 stepchildren. I LOVE being a mother. My own mother couldn't have children, so she and dad adopted me and my sister. I know wonderful women who have not had children, but they "mother" all the children in their Primary class, or nieces and nephews. Being a mother means doing the best we can do, with the help of the Lord and loved ones around us, to raise our children to be decent, honorable people. Sometimes I have been able to stay home, especially when they were young. Sometimes I've had to work due to financial need. I've cleaned motel rooms, taking my children with me. They learned how to work together, and we have good memories of those times. I worked at school, too.
Zeelander | 4:42 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
"Pride" comes before being 'offended.' Pride comes before a
fall. Beware least you fall!
It seems that many complainants do not have a true spiritual perspective of God's Great Plan of Happiness; a mother's roll in life; women's rolls in general; or earthly families, etc. There will be eternal JOY and felicity for those of us who make it to the Celestial Kingdom. Not to worry!
A single and previously married and divorced mother who is very happy in the Church.
It seems that many complainants do not have a true spiritual perspective of God's Great Plan of Happiness; a mother's roll in life; women's rolls in general; or earthly families, etc. There will be eternal JOY and felicity for those of us who make it to the Celestial Kingdom. Not to worry!
A single and previously married and divorced mother who is very happy in the Church.
ramper | 7:28 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Re: ello
You sharing of Pres. Hinckley's quote was great.
Re: unmet expectations
Your comment "We compare ourselves at our worst against others at their best and of course fall short"
was super.
Being a male, I do marvel at our women and do try to get out of the way. If not, my wife tosses me out of the way. And, I'm an ex-boxer.
You sharing of Pres. Hinckley's quote was great.
Re: unmet expectations
Your comment "We compare ourselves at our worst against others at their best and of course fall short"
was super.
Being a male, I do marvel at our women and do try to get out of the way. If not, my wife tosses me out of the way. And, I'm an ex-boxer.
Travis | 7:35 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Camille Aagard, I respect your courage. Thanks for speaking up.
Moms | 8:45 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Well, I am just glad that my mom was home with me. She wasn't always, as
she divorced early, but when she remarried she was in the home. I love and
respect all women. This is a personal choice, as with all personal choices, for
which we will individually be held accountable for. The proclamation of the
family states the roles of fathers and mothers as preordained by God the Father,
thus we know our responsibilities. The time in the home is so short, kids will
be raised before you know it, thus the sacrifice is limited to those few years
that the kids are not in school. My wife worked the first two years of our
oldest daughter and it was tough on all three of us, but with our second she has
been home and enjoys "most" days. I respect her for taking on the
most challenging job in the world (mother, wife (hardest part:), home-maker
(whatever that is), and member of this great Gospel and this wonderful nation.
Take heart women of this Church, don't let anger, pride or resentment
persuade you to forget Christ's love, patience and longsuffering. Know
that you are loved and respected.
Women's roles | 8:50 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
I haven't bothered to read all the comments here. While I do believe women
should be educated and able pursue careers equally with men, I also agree that
women are an integral part of the family. Children need to be reared by a
parent. When they spend all day at the day care, they learn nothing of their
parents or their parents' values. When they come home, they eat dinner,
bathe and go to bed. There is little quality time. We are paying for virtual
strangers to raise our children.
On the other hand, I am also part of the many families who need a second income to cope with the expenses of day-to-day living. We do not have children yet, but we are trying. Both of us desparately want for me to stay home and raise our children.
I believe the womens role in the family is divine. One of the most basic and beautiful doctrines in the church is that of the eternal family. What better way to strengthen the family than to have a mother who raises her children?
On the other hand, I am also part of the many families who need a second income to cope with the expenses of day-to-day living. We do not have children yet, but we are trying. Both of us desparately want for me to stay home and raise our children.
I believe the womens role in the family is divine. One of the most basic and beautiful doctrines in the church is that of the eternal family. What better way to strengthen the family than to have a mother who raises her children?
diligentdave | 8:51 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Sister Beck was speaking to LDS women worldwide. In many countries, including
Mexico, the average LDS family is SMALLER than the average Mexican family!! Even
the Wall Street Journal, almost 4 years ago, pointed to the fact that about half
of all Brazilian women of child-bearing age had had tubal ligations (many paid
for by local politicians running for office).
Worldwide, plummeting human fertility rates are at the core of many growing problems. In the U.S., I assert that the average 1.71 babies born to the average white woman is behind the need for many more immigrants. And, since our legal limits are so low, hence the NEED, and not only the "PROBLEM" of "too many 'illegal' immigrants".
Worldwide, plummeting human fertility rates are at the core of many growing problems. In the U.S., I assert that the average 1.71 babies born to the average white woman is behind the need for many more immigrants. And, since our legal limits are so low, hence the NEED, and not only the "PROBLEM" of "too many 'illegal' immigrants".
Anonymous | 9:44 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
While living in Oregon my wife was applying for a job she was not qualified for.
She would be in charge of a group in the judicial department at the court house.
When a group of professionals, many of which where woman, asked her about her credentials. She simply replied,� I�m just a mother�.
The main interviewer, the chief judge, replied quite frankly, �that is the most important job you will ever have.�
I find it funny that a liberal judge, quite unfamiliar with life in Utah, surrounded by carrier women, would recognize and emphasize such an important truth.
He then said, �If more women were like you, there would be less people in front of me�.
He pushed for her hire and as her boss made sure she placed her children before work.
When a group of professionals, many of which where woman, asked her about her credentials. She simply replied,� I�m just a mother�.
The main interviewer, the chief judge, replied quite frankly, �that is the most important job you will ever have.�
I find it funny that a liberal judge, quite unfamiliar with life in Utah, surrounded by carrier women, would recognize and emphasize such an important truth.
He then said, �If more women were like you, there would be less people in front of me�.
He pushed for her hire and as her boss made sure she placed her children before work.
Don't tell | 9:59 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
The number and force of regrets that my wife and I hear from married LDS female
friends and acquaintances is just sad. They cannot share their unhappiness with
their limited say in their church and marriages. I really feel for them.
Great Talk | 9:58 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
I appreciated Julie Beck's talk--even though I am a working professional
LDS woman with a JD who has not had the opportunity to be a mother--yet.
Someday we will all stand before God to account for our lives: to show we've done the best with the hand we were dealt. At-home moms deserve all the respect & kudos they receive. As Oprah says, It's the hardest job on earth and the most important. It's the world that measures success by degrees.
Someday we will all stand before God to account for our lives: to show we've done the best with the hand we were dealt. At-home moms deserve all the respect & kudos they receive. As Oprah says, It's the hardest job on earth and the most important. It's the world that measures success by degrees.
Sally | 10:25 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Give it a break! Don't you fathers on here have jobs, and need to work, to
support your wives and children? BLAH BLAH BLAH!
RE: Don't tell | 10:51 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Dear Don't tell: There is more to you than meets the written word;
"they cannot share their unhappiness with their limited say in their church
and marriages"
There is a veiled predjudice in your comments towards the church and the women of the church. You have a hypothesis which is condescending at a minumum. It's obvious that you only pay attention to the information that supports your hypothesis.
There is no lack of strong, articulate women in our church...
There is a veiled predjudice in your comments towards the church and the women of the church. You have a hypothesis which is condescending at a minumum. It's obvious that you only pay attention to the information that supports your hypothesis.
There is no lack of strong, articulate women in our church...
Hard Working Mom of 5 | 11:58 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
You know, it's funny. When I first heard that talk, I felt like it
affirmed all of the things I was trying to do as a mother and reminded me of how
important they all were, even though some (laundry, anyone?) are real drudgery.
I didn't feel at all guilty for working outside of the home. I didn't
have any idea anyone felt that way until my visiting teacher came to see me and
mentioned the controversy.
I have a job because my husband is in a line of work (computer science) where he is occasionally either changing jobs or getting laid off. I like the feeling of knowing that our family is protected with constant insurance.
I'm trying my hardest to be the best mother I can be. I've arranged my schedule so that I'm usually home when my kids are home (all of them are in school). I'm not the perfect housekeeper, but my kids all know how to clean a kitchen, do their own laundry, vacuum and dust, clean a bathroom, and clean up after themselves.
Please don't be so hard on yourselves, mothers! Nobody is perfect. Heavenly Father loves all of us for just trying.
I have a job because my husband is in a line of work (computer science) where he is occasionally either changing jobs or getting laid off. I like the feeling of knowing that our family is protected with constant insurance.
I'm trying my hardest to be the best mother I can be. I've arranged my schedule so that I'm usually home when my kids are home (all of them are in school). I'm not the perfect housekeeper, but my kids all know how to clean a kitchen, do their own laundry, vacuum and dust, clean a bathroom, and clean up after themselves.
Please don't be so hard on yourselves, mothers! Nobody is perfect. Heavenly Father loves all of us for just trying.
RE: SAHM | 12:10 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008
Actually, that happens to be my last name (German). Please stop slandering it
with your rediculous acronyms. Bottom line, people should be able to chose...
it's bad if they are forced to stay at home and bad if they chose to stay
at home and people make fun of and criticize them. Lay off eachother children!
women have rights to happiness | 12:11 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008
I can't believe it is even the church's business whether a woman has
children, stays at home, has a career, etc. Who exactly do you think you are?
I'm sure the moderator will squash this post, but PLEASE. Women are
capable of the same things men are, and have the same right to asperations.
I'm a guy, and I'm not LDS. But if a person (man or woman) loves God and leads a true life, then why do any of you care whether a woman has children or not? Telling women to have a lot of children and stay home to raise them is a little too FLDS for me....
what if she wants to be a pilot or scientist? They have a right to happiness just like everyone else. Trying to coerce them into having babies is just wrong. (I know "coerce" is a strong word but religious pressures can be very strong...)
I'm a guy, and I'm not LDS. But if a person (man or woman) loves God and leads a true life, then why do any of you care whether a woman has children or not? Telling women to have a lot of children and stay home to raise them is a little too FLDS for me....
what if she wants to be a pilot or scientist? They have a right to happiness just like everyone else. Trying to coerce them into having babies is just wrong. (I know "coerce" is a strong word but religious pressures can be very strong...)
cpo | 12:17 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008
If God calls a Relief Society President through inpsiration and by devine means,
I'll sustain. No need to be offended by her words
Stay at home mom :) | 12:15 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008
As a college graduate and stay at home Mom of five, I heard the talk and it
INSPIRED me to be BETTER, I was not at all offended!! Being a stay at home Mom
is hard, but worth it!! :)
Kicking against the pricks | 12:15 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008
I have heard on several occasions how offended some people were at President
Beck's address. Each time I've gone back to her talk and read it
again, thinking, "Did I miss something?". I was there when she spoke.
I heard her words. She spoke truth. The naysayers referred to in this article
are confused. I don't think they have read the talk. If they have, they
didn't understand it. It was not offensive, not limiting, not
condescending, and not controlling. It was good leadership. It was not demeaning
of women in society. It was addressed to mothers. Even behavior specialists
couldn't argue with what she said because all that she said would be in the
best interest of children and society. Those who were offended are acting
selfishly. They are kicking against the pricks of the spirit of truth.
Will Pearson | 12:27 p.m. Aug. 12, 2008
I support Sister Beck. Thank God I had a "Mormon Mother" in spite of a
father indifferent to religion and self improvement either in himself or his
(many) children. She saw to it that all eight of us gained our high school
diplomas and learned about college opportunities. My "Mormon Mother"
taught us virtue, self-respect and respect for women and girls as well as
shepherding us gently through homework and adolescent problems. Sunday after
Sunday she begged rides or walked with us three miles to Church while dad stayed
home and "read the funnies." We learned both Mother Goose rhymes and
Bible stories at her knees while she rocked babies, sewed on the old Singer, or
baked bread. The only thing she ever complained about were nose-in-the-air women
who were too busy or self-centered to get involved with children. Thank God for
my "Mormon mother."
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That conference inspired me to get back in school and finish my degree. It encouraged me to develop my talents and work harder as a mother. What's so bada bout that?