Deseret News | LDS leader's '07 address still causing controversy

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LDS leader's '07 address still causing controversy

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lost in suburbia | 12:35 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

I'm a mother of 5. I loved Julie Beck's talk because it was so bold. I love this debate, too, quite honestly. I think there should be more dialog between church leaders and those of us who are swimming in young motherhood.

But I also think that while Beck's talk was aimed at value in motherhood, her list of traits was not exhaustive. It could have gone on for hours if she were to outline all the ways that women show they "know." The value of this debate will be if women make their own list of ways they show they know individually. Our strength comes in our collective individuality.

still lost | 12:36 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

Most ward and stake male leaders have no earthly idea what they're asking of a mother when they ask her to take a major calling. All they know is that they need their organization to function and they don't want to have to do all the hard work. Men must become more sensitive to women's roles and pressure. We're not here to perform for you. If we're going to believe that motherhood is the highest and noblest calling, then men in the church are going to have to start respecting our time and stress management issues.

Marcus W | 2:05 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

What is the point of this life? To bring to pass the eternal life and immortality of man!

Why do church leaders hope that we will get married quickly? So that we can focus on someone else other than ourselves. When we serve others we serve our Heavenly Father.

Why should we have children? So that again we can focus on serving others. The Lord wants us to raise children righteously, he wants them to learn the gospel, and know that they are loved.

Why do we judge others as LDS members? To make ouselves feel better. Take some stress off of your life and let the Lord be the Judge.

It all comes back to pride. What identity do "I" have? What about "MY" developement? Me Me Me.

Comments continue below

Kellie | 2:09 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

I probably would have been offended by Julie Beck's talk about twenty years ago, when I was twelve and thought I was a feminist. Since then, I have learned for myself, not by anyone else telling me, what is important to me and where I fit in the grand scheme of things. It boils down to having our own confirmation of our purpose in life. Mine right now is to be a great mom when I am with my kids and a great therapist when I am at work and a great person of service when I am doing the duties I owe to God and humanity. I don't think Julie Beck is binding us to one role- she is encouraging us to set our priorities straight, and to rely on our Heavenly Father for guidance.

LVIS | 2:21 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

Re: Member Teachings at 5:55PM, Aug 13--

Jeffrey Holland speaking:

"May I suggest that wherever possible a white shirt be worn by the deacons, teachers, and priests who handle the sacrament. For sacred ordinances in the Church we often use ceremonial clothing, and a white shirt could be seen as a gentle reminder of the white clothing you wore in the baptismal font and an anticipation of the white shirt you will soon wear into the temple and onto your missions.

That simple suggestion is not intended to be
pharisaic or formalistic. We do not want deacons or priests in uniforms or unduly concerned about anything but the purity of their lives. But how our young people dress can teach a holy principle to us all, and it certainly can convey sanctity. As President David O. McKay taught, a white shirt contributes to the sacredness of the holy sacrament"

So, you're right--not official "policy", for the pharisaic or formalistic in the crowd.

To ALL | 2:40 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

Reading the ranting and raving about motherhood just makes me want to say: I Love you, I love you, I love you!

Do the best you can. That's all you can do!

re: still lost | 3:19 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

While I understand and agree that a major calling for a woman with multiple children is a huge, exhaustive undertaking, you do have to realize that they don't come from male leaders looking to make their lives easier. Church leaders pray for inspiration in filling every single last calling in the ward. Those choices are then verified by counselors who also pray for inspiration. I've seen it happen that way for callings as "small" as working in the library, playing piano in RS, or leading the YW choir. Callings come from the Lord, not from men or women in the ward.

HeManWomanHater | 3:41 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

I was getting scared for a second.. where is the opposition that fights true religion? ah ha! here it is!

Glad to see we're still running against the wind.

Long live Sister Beck!

and I don't hate women, I love them! I'm married to one of the best!

Oh how I wish | 3:59 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

members would stop judging and worrying what others - including our leaders - think of us and just worry about our relationship with the Savior. Are you doing the best YOU can do in your uniques situation? That's all that matters. And that answer is between you and the Lord - not Sister Beck, your Bishop, or anyone else. Each leader will likely have a different opinion of your situation so save yourself the guilt and just walk this life with the Lord. The Church is here for fellowship and opportunities to serve and love not to make us feel inadequate or judged.

Non-LDS Observer | 4:19 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

I think some of the tumult surrounding "the talk" by Julie Beck could be done away with (i.e., the alleged de-valuation of unmarried or childless women) by noting that Beck's second counselor in the General Relief Society Presidency, Barbara Thompson, has never been married. Judging from her bio, she is career woman with a lot of accomplishments to her credit.

Lacy S. | 4:22 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

I have read Beck's talk, and I have read this article, and I have read these comments, and you know what? This has helped me make up my mind. I am tired of trying to please everyone else. I am tired of being told what to do by everyone else. Call me selfish if you want, but I don't care anymore. I am going to resign from my Church calling and spend my Sundays just relaxing. I don't need all this condemnation just because I work fulltime. My life and my decisions are mine and none of you have any right to judge me. I have had it. I quit.

to re: still lost | 4:31 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

Um, excuse me. I beg to differ with your opinion that "church leaders pray for inspiration in filling every single last calling in the ward. . ." I have been in the meetings where members are traded - I'll give you Jane if I can have Joe and Peter, I've got Paula and Molly up - how about giving me Dick, etc. I've also been called in and asked where I would like to next serve and we've hammered out a deal. I seen similar in wards in 19 states.

I would say your experience of "every calling inspired" happens in a very small percentage of wards.

read it again | 5:20 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

After hearing the initial post conference Beck Bash my wife asked that I read the talk and try to explain to her what all the excitement was about. We've read it together 5 times and still can't figure out why there's so many women turned sideways. My wife's been a starving college student, a poor newly wed, a middle income new mother, a successful business woman, and now a stay at home mother of 7 (ages 5-17) with money. Her view on this is..."women, use your energy and time on making your life as successful as you can, the Lord will fill in the gaps."

To: Lacy S. | 5:34 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

We've all been there, Lacy. You've given all you have, and you barely have strength to walk to the outside trash to dump the diaper. But don't give up. Remember the Lord said,(D&C 10:40)Do not run faster or labor more than you have strength ... but be diligent unto the end. It's not about the Church or your calling or what your neighbors think about you working full-time. It's about your relationship with your Savior. Focus on that and on your family. Find out how the Atonement can work in your day--every day. Love your kids. Forget about what others may think. Remember this talk had to apply to 6 million women, and therefore had to be general. Forget about it. I wish we were neighbors. I'd be there for you. Maybe someone is. No one condemns you. Your life is yours, but Christ paid the price for it. Don't discount him. Chin up, girl. Working full-time does not devalue you. You are doing what you can. Keep it up. Don't try to please any one. It never works. God knows your heart. No one else's opinion means squat.

newcomer to utah | 5:54 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

I just got in. Who's this Sister Beck lady?

just wondering | 5:56 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

I appreciate the clarification on Aaronic priesthood and white shirts. I understand the only men that need to wear white shirts to Sacrament mtg are those who sit on the stand. I see lots of white shirts and lots of colored shirts on worthy Melchizedek priesthood holders. My opinion is that it should be clean and pressed regardless of color. Some men wear suits, some sport coats and some are coatless, especially in warmer weather. Women aren't told exactly what to wear, just general guidelines of what is appropriate. I'd like to know an official answer, not a members opinion. thanks

kathyn to Lacy S | 5:59 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

I can honestly say that I have benefitted from every church calling, even though I may not have liked every calling. I have learned so much and continue to learn. At times, when I have had a lot of stress to deal with, kind bishops have been there to help me through things, and yes, have released me when I needed some time off. Each of us is an individual with different strengths and needs, and we are at different seasons in our lives. The bishop will understand that you are tired.

So do take some time off, but don't remove yourself from the support the other ward members can give you. I am not judging; in fact I totally understand where you're coming from. I've been there. The older I've gotten, the more understanding I've become. The Lord knows your situation. He's the One who really matters, ultimately. Trust Him, please.

anonymus | 6:09 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

I think people forget that when the original Releif society was formed the only role women had at that time was to be a mother. Times have changed and while some women can stay at home.. Some for whatever reason cant have children..

Basically. I want to be respected for as a human being on this earth. Not for something that my body can do or not do.

I dont want my membership to be any less because of that status

Re Marcus W | 7:01 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

You are so right my brother! You nailed it! Dead center! Spot on! You are wise, maybe even a genius!

Some of the rest of you sound really scarey! "Its all about MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!" Nothing else is as important as my FEELINGS!!!! I am a slave to how I FEEL! If you don't respect my FEELINGS, you are insensitive. If you don't respect MY feelings, you are despicable! That's what some of you sound like to me! Get over yourself! The world doesn't revolve around how you feel! Sister Beck is right on!

Firestorm? | 7:02 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

A firestorm of controversy occurred after the talk? I wouldn't call 500 signatures and the same old groups grinding their axes against the church a firestorm.

Lacy S | 7:55 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

I understand what you are saying, but I just can't continue with all these other women criticizing and condemning me because I work fulltime. I have overlooked it for so long. They treat me like an outsider because I am not a stay at home mom like them. I know what they say behind my back. They say the same sickening things I have read on these comments. They accuse me of being worldly because I try to take care of myself and dress professionally and well. I like to look good, but I also dress well for my job. I like what I do and dressing well is who I am. I am tired of being judged for it because I am not like the other women. They are so condescending toward me, just like all the people on these comments. This has been brewing for me for about 5 years. I've talked with my husband about it. He supports me in whatever I want to do. But this is just it. I have had enough. I refuse to spend anymore nights crying myself to sleep because these women make me feel like such a horrible person.

Ken | 8:23 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

I just listened to Julie Beck's talk again, I must say that I don't hear anything in there that hasn't been said by the leadership of the LDS Church many times before. She stated a set of true parenting principals that represent ideals, not absolute expectations or reality. For anyone to read insults into this talk to me seems unfair to Sis. Beck.

Those who have and continue to take offense at this kind of fundamental Church doctrine are walking on their way out the door. My guess is that parenting outside the Church doesn't get any easier or more liberating than inside it.

Boy, it's cliche, but beware of kicking against the pricks....

to Lacy | 8:26 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

I hear you.

Best wishes for walking your walk with integrity to yourself. It's amazing how freeing and empowering it is. Oh, that everyone could feel the joy of being true to themselves.

Culture of "Perfection" | 9:25 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

I prefer Sister Beck's interpretation of perfection than the encroaching Utah culture of botox, breast implants, liposuction, tanning, microdermabrasion, and so many other procedures proudly practiced by women with a lot of money, too much time, and low self esteem.

She teaches the gospel principles of developing spiritual talents that we will need in the life after this and asks us to take the responsibility to attend to our children whom we decided to have.

All women work either in the home or outside of the home. Some are paid money. Some are not. That isn't the issue. It is what we do with our time and talents in preparing the next generation to be able to stand true to gospel principles.

I am a product of a mom who went to work outside the home after her husband died. I have never viewed her as a perfect mom, although I know that in both circumstances she did the best that SHE could do. In both circumstances she had her priorities straight. She is not LDS. However, I have felt more empowered as an LDS woman than in the religion I was raised in. Sister Beck is right on.

A Non-Utah Mormon | 10:13 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

Honestly, the root of our problems here in Utah root for the culture of religious extremism. Although we have one of the most liberal christian religions in the world... Shall I recall the abortion policy by church, the no side on stemcell, openess to work with other religions (for all of you neocons, that means middle eastern terrorist organisations), and the comprehensive sight on homosexuals. Yet, we still intend to generate full-time mothers, and not respect the choice of some to help the family by full-time working. I find it so hypocritical. In my opinionreligion is true, but Utah mormons are getting so off their rockers on so many things that I feel we are competing with the bible belt to be the most self-righteous. Funny you get out of Utah, still keep it in the church, and you would never get such comments and reactions of people like the pro Beck movement. If you ever attend a church in other country and other language, you will notice they actually spend time talking about stuff that is worth it, and not about indoctrinating women into an idea of a mother-centric role. They are people too. This comes from a Mormon.

Dear Lacy, | 10:12 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

You will be missed. I sincerely mean that. I wish you could see how many in your ward see you, as a wonderful, organized woman and a cherished sister. My best friend is a Mom of 5 and has always worked full time. Every one of her kids are active in the Church and happy, healthy adults. She has asked me on several occasions if I think she should quit her job. I've always told her that it's not my place to tell her what to do. (I'm a SAHM) Only she knows the condition of her bank account or stress level or a myriad of other factors in why she works. She is prone to depression and for her, working helps her deal with it. BTW she is a RM. I love her and I love you and want what is best for you. Please don't let the critical ones bring you down. Your posts have opened alot of eyes and brought them to a realization of the error of their ways. I think the self rigteous attitude is far more common in Utah, having lived there 33 years. You could move:D just kidding. You are loved.

A mother who wants to know | 10:16 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

I am shocked. I was not raised in this culture. I have seen and experienced much. This was my favorite talk and one I want to live. I want to be a mother who knows. A mother who knows Christ. I thought it was beautiful. I am choosing to stay home with my children. I am choosing to follow the council given in conference. I am not perfect. BUT I will try to be a mother who knows. If that means I cut the cord of the T.V like Sister Erying than I will. I have had to not be prideful, try harder, and repent. I will do it because I know it is true and I love it.

to Lacy | 11:59 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008

I hope you just mean you'll quit your calling and not quit the church. We need you, sister, and you need us. I've had some of the same feelings you describe about giving up on trying to meet others' expectations, and that's fine. I'd say it's good to go thru that -- it's growth. I find much of the social/cultural aspects of the church are actually discouraging to me, too, but I find simple joy in trying to live the commandments and have a relationship with the Lord. I hope you do, too.

kourtney | 1:18 a.m. Aug. 15, 2008

Sister Beck's talk was absolutely amazing. I have had it on my mp3 player ever since and listen to it often. If what she said was not the doctrine of the church, then they would not have let her give the talk. Grow up and stop complaining about something that the church has held as one of it's core doctrines since the beginning. All the whining isn't going to change anything, just make those who understand the values and doctrines of the church more annoyed.

to Ken | 1:22 a.m. Aug. 15, 2008

They called it. . .

Lacy S | 8:32 a.m. Aug. 15, 2008

Well, I did it. Last night I called the Bishopric Counselor (the Sunday School President was not available) and told him I would not be continuing in my calling. I was Gospel Doctrine instructor. I cancelled my visiting teaching appointments. I feel such a relief and so empowered! I donï¿½t care what the other women think of me anymore. It is so liberating! I can hardly describe how good it feels!

Thank you for reading my comments. It was important for me to work through this. I am as excited about the future as I have ever been!

To Lacy | 9:02 a.m. Aug. 15, 2008

As a male and ex-bishop, I understand your frustration. My wife and I spent the first 3 years of our marriage childless (not by choice). I was called as a bishop shortly after we got married and so many people made comments to me like, "When are you going to have children? Or, "You are the bishop, shouldn't you be setting the example?" This hurt us, as we were spending tons of money on fertility treatments, and desired to have children. My point is that people can be very hurtful, even when they do not mean to be. One thing that I have learned is that we are all on our own (I include families in the singular) when it comes to our eternal salvation. It is a real shame when people make the choice to distance themselves from the gospel based largely on how other imperfect people make them feel. I have often wondered if any of us will ever make it to the Celestial kingdom based on our natural state and imperfections, but have come to realise that if we are trying hard and doing our very best, then a loving Father will welcome us back. Keep going.

tinytrooper | 9:17 a.m. Aug. 15, 2008

I hope i dont offend any women out there, but the one person i look up to and love more than any person in this world is my mother. Say all you want about disrespect, but in the eyes of a child a mother is the most important person around. i Love you Mom.

to Lacy S | 9:35 a.m. Aug. 15, 2008

You go, girl!

Remember the feeling. There will be times when you struggle and when the hurt seems overwhelming, but remember you are in charge of your direction. You know the situation you're in and what will work. Looks like you have the support of your husband as well. Together work out what's best for your family and follow that no matter what anyone else says. You will be happy.

to To Lacy 9:02 | 9:44 a.m. Aug. 15, 2008

Interesting you underscored "ex-bishop" with "male." Probably not necessary. :o)

Re: Still Lost | 10:08 a.m. Aug. 15, 2008

While human beings make mistakes, and I have seen many mistakes made extending callings, my experience is that most callings are carefully and prayerfully considered.

The real issue is not callings, however, but the slow expansion of demands on families (church programs/responsibilities/meetings, labor markets, schools/training, etc.). The gospel doesn't change, but church programs must change as needs do. Men are feeling the heat too; A 10-30+ hr/wk calling such as Bishop, StakePresident, Counselor, Scoutmaster, YMAdvisor, EQPresident, 11-Year-Old-Scout-Leader, ExecSecretary, etc.), providing for a family with a 40-60 hr/wk commitment to an employer, taking care of parents/ siblings/neighbors, keeping skills current in an increasingly competitive job market, etc., going to GirlsCamp/HighAdventure/ScoutCamp/YouthConferenc, etc. and still trying to be a husband and father.

Demands outside of Utah/West are even greater with early morning seminary (teachers called from the wards-a 20-25+ hr/wk calling that starts at 5:00am M-F, kids up at 5:15) and more needy families with less extended family support. It's not uncommon to have 6-8 hometeaching families and multiple callings in an effort to meet all the needs and run church programs.

We need to downsize the programs and demands on families or the church will end up harming rather than supporting families.

Anna | 12:07 p.m. Aug. 15, 2008

Don't forget that if you have the gift of the Holy Ghost, you can know the truth for yourself. We're supposed to get our own confirmation of what our leaders tell us. If something doesn't sit with us right, we can take the matter to the Lord and say, "This doesn't sit with me right." Maybe the Holy Ghost has a personalized interpretation for us.

to Re: Still Lost 10:08 am | 5:48 p.m. Aug. 15, 2008

You said a mouthful. For years I have felt that being an active church member meant I had to choose between having a real family life and being at meetings, doing callings, and serving others. As a family we were running ragged. Finally wised up and downsized our outside activities, including church callings and meetings. We are much closer and much, much happier. We still attend church on Sundays, but mid-week activities are optional depending on what else we have going on as individuals and as a family.

To Lacy from Denise | 6:35 p.m. Aug. 17, 2008

"Well, I did it. Last night I called the Bishopric Counselor (the Sunday School President was not available) and told him I would not be continuing in my calling. I was Gospel Doctrine instructor. I cancelled my visiting teaching appointments. I feel such a relief and so empowered! I donï¿½t care what the other women think of me anymore. It is so liberating! I can hardly describe how good it feels!"

I'm happy for you! As someone who was openly judged for not wanting children and not wanting the "mothers who know" lifestyle, I am so much happier in a community that accepts me completely for who I am, which the LDS church didn't.

Robert | 12:15 p.m. Aug. 19, 2008

I wonder what the emails and blogs would have been saying years ago when Noah was commanded to start building an ark in the middle of the desert. Thank you Sister Beck!

Kristina | 1:53 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008

Perhaps there's more to this life than defining our roles down to one narrowminded, foolish talk. Why would heavenly father give us our amazing brains if we weren't supposed to use them? Maybe there's a lot more to this thing we call life than what we've been allowed to think. Think about that...

Sis. Black | 10:42 a.m. Sept. 18, 2008

I loved Sis. Beck's talk. I don't know anyone who doesn't want to be better than they are now. I needed the advice she gave on what to do to become a better Mother, wife and house keeper. She is giving us the message that the Lord want us to hear. These women who complain about this talk know better. Thank you Sis. Beck.

Thank You, Sis. Beck! | 10:52 a.m. Sept. 18, 2008

The talk that Sis. Beck gave was to the general public (all women in the church). Of course there are acceptions to the talk. It she listed every acception to what she had to say, it would take up the time of her talk. Elder Bednar gave a talk in Conference a year or two ago about "taking offense". I think a lot of these women who are haveing problems with this talk need to read his talk. She gave us the message that the Lord wanted us to here. All the Lord asks of us is to do our very best in all we do. How many women are doing there very best? I know that there is so much more I can do!

Motherhood IS all things | 4:31 p.m. March 14, 2009

I feel this whole discussion is self-evident of the motives of those who question their own religion in unproductive ways. When a person who views their membership in a faith as a tangential thing for which its customs and morays are not really relevant, they should not be upset or surprised when claims made by those whom they say lead them are different from what they would like to hear. I fully understand the pain of many, but it seems to me that this is an extremely powerful indicator of how powerful the original words were and powerfully different the spirit of the listeners was also. I don't pretend to think that anyone should swallow and word without pause, but those in the church already know that the words chosen by their leaders are careful, especially at the top and that the words spoken already account for the arguments made against it. Motherhood IS a broad term and should be accepted as inclusive and there is not real conflict in what was said even for our times. It will, has and should be said forever.

Kirsten | 9:17 a.m. April 15, 2009

I don't believe "risking" membership is the right phrase. They would be making the choice to no longer attend because of their "offended" nature. They would not be asked to leave. That is highly overdramatized.

I liked a lot of the previous comments. I choose as did several of my non member friends to stay at home and raise my children. There is nothing degrading or lessening my purpose in life. There is no where I would rather be then at home. I feel sorry for my husband that he can't be here to see and experience the joys of our children everyday.

The church has always said there are those who have no choice but to go to work. There is nothing wrong with that. Those to feel they are not complete until they have something outside to make them whole need to rethink why.

Don't be so quick to be offended. Sister Beck was not speaking to offend, it is your choice to take it that way.

Kirsten | 3:16 p.m. April 16, 2009

After reading through more of these comments it seems there are a lot of complaints about work and time. Boy the time and work involved with all this complaining has me exhausted! I'm going to take a nap with my 2 year old while my hubby is at work.

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