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LDS leader's '07 address still causing controversy
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Be ye therefore perfect... | 12:02 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
Christ has taught that we need to be perfect. Why aren't we all in our
"closets crying"? This is a tall order, is it not? What Sister Beck so
eloquently spoke of in her talk said the same thing. We should strive for
perfection step by step, moment by moment. No doubt we will stumble and fall
along the way.
I loved this talk! I have 5 sisters and a mother who are not perfect, but are doing the best they can. They are not beating themselves up if they fail now and again, but they are doing the things we are all taught to do, that is read the scriptures, pray, teach your children righteousness, etc. They are all very happy and well grounded with a firm foundation.
The process of perfection won't happen in this lifetime for most of us. We all need to do the best we can. The plan outlined by Sister Beck is the way we are to find the most joy in this life. I hope those who are offended or feel over burdened will eventually see this and stop beating themselves up about it.
I loved this talk! I have 5 sisters and a mother who are not perfect, but are doing the best they can. They are not beating themselves up if they fail now and again, but they are doing the things we are all taught to do, that is read the scriptures, pray, teach your children righteousness, etc. They are all very happy and well grounded with a firm foundation.
The process of perfection won't happen in this lifetime for most of us. We all need to do the best we can. The plan outlined by Sister Beck is the way we are to find the most joy in this life. I hope those who are offended or feel over burdened will eventually see this and stop beating themselves up about it.
Revelation | 12:01 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
We can recieve personal revelation from the Lord.
Sis Beck spoke for the church as a whole, but we as individuals have to act on our own personal revelations, and we will all be fine.
Sis Beck spoke for the church as a whole, but we as individuals have to act on our own personal revelations, and we will all be fine.
Comments continue below
Simon Says | 12:01 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
Growing up my mom and dad made the decision that mom would stay at home and take
care of us kids. I remember after school on many days that the neighborhood
kids would line up for snacks and a drink at our kitchen door. It was a great
blessing to me and my siblings to have a mom in the home. My dad was a teacher,
and with mom at home we didn't have much. I had a close friend who was
very wealthy. He would always want to come to my house. I couldn't
understand this as he had so many cool things to play with. I asked him one day
why he never wanted us to play at his home after school and he told me that he
liked that my mom was at home.
As an adult and a father of 4, my wife has needed to work from time to time outside of the home. The past 4 years, she has stayed at home with the kids. I am truly blessed to have a wonderfully talented, degreed wife, who works harder at home than I could ever at work. Being a SAHM is a thankless job.
As an adult and a father of 4, my wife has needed to work from time to time outside of the home. The past 4 years, she has stayed at home with the kids. I am truly blessed to have a wonderfully talented, degreed wife, who works harder at home than I could ever at work. Being a SAHM is a thankless job.
luvsisbeck! | 12:20 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
To Larry in Manti - thanks for that awesome post!!
Don't Be Naive | 12:21 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
To Women "Leaders" - what a myopic and naive comment and perspective,
to suggest Julie Beck . Julie Beck is one of the most well-traveled women in the
world, and none of it for herself. She's been in the mud hut, the grass
shack, the cardboard, tin, or concrete dwelling in the slum all over the world.
To suggest that she is "out of touch" is patently rediculous.
She's been there, she listens, and has connected with just about every
culture you can name. When she, and other women leaders speak, they've been
there and experienced others' pain and successes.
luvsisbeck! | 12:27 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
***Because, face it, your degrees and colleagues won't come visit you when
you're 90 and can't get around anymore. Your kids will, if you gave
them what they needed.***
Wow, so true....great comment!
Wow, so true....great comment!
magnus | 1:19 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
there are all too many women in the church who simply cannot feel fulfilled by
being a stay at home mom alone.
Blame it on whoever or whatever you want but facts are facts, and staying at home with children makes some women miserable. Even though they love and cherish their children and the gospel the thought of spending years as a full-time houswife fills them with despair.
The sad thing is that often women in the church who feel this way are looked upon as broken or "unrighteous".
I see what Sister Beck was trying to say but to me it felt a little heavy handed.
My wife battles with three young boys, one of whom is disabled, every day. She really tried to accept Sister Becks message, she read it and listned to it several times and every time she felt the same, discouraged and angry.
The last thing she needs to hear form her spritual leader is that "Women who know" are doing things that she tries and fails at daily.
Blame it on whoever or whatever you want but facts are facts, and staying at home with children makes some women miserable. Even though they love and cherish their children and the gospel the thought of spending years as a full-time houswife fills them with despair.
The sad thing is that often women in the church who feel this way are looked upon as broken or "unrighteous".
I see what Sister Beck was trying to say but to me it felt a little heavy handed.
My wife battles with three young boys, one of whom is disabled, every day. She really tried to accept Sister Becks message, she read it and listned to it several times and every time she felt the same, discouraged and angry.
The last thing she needs to hear form her spritual leader is that "Women who know" are doing things that she tries and fails at daily.
nativeways | 1:50 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
Yea, I used to be part of that Mormon bubble which tends to look at everything
as black and white, right or wrong. I never saw it that way, blame my indigenous
self. I believe in families, communities, spiritualism, good morals and all
people have a right to good, safe life but this planet doesn't always
guarantee that. It really doesn't matter what one person's opinion is
like Sister Beck's opinion is because you as a Mormon member are living
your religion the best way you know how already, right? Why does matter, your
not a robot? I have never seen the perfect Mormon human being yet, even lived in
Utah many years. It really is a tough organized religion to live if you are a
woman who thinks outside the box all the time.
Great talk | 2:20 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
Very nice Sister, well put, it is always faith promoting to see the decaying
morals and righteousness of even those in the church, surely a sign of more
things to come. It is interesting that this coincides with all of the
"Affirmation" stuff. I love my mom and know the way she did it was the
BEST way. May sound arrogant but it is merely a tribute to my mother who really
did do her best and worried more about me than her.
The people writing this crap are worried more about themselves than their children and their earthly obligations/suggestions. That selfishness is evident in our kids today. They are raised seeking the career and the almighty dollar, MAY WE REAP THE WHIRLWIND OF THAT GREAT REWARD-
Great Talk!!! Points well taken. We would be wise to listen or just ignore it and hope our kids pick it up on their own:)
The people writing this crap are worried more about themselves than their children and their earthly obligations/suggestions. That selfishness is evident in our kids today. They are raised seeking the career and the almighty dollar, MAY WE REAP THE WHIRLWIND OF THAT GREAT REWARD-
Great Talk!!! Points well taken. We would be wise to listen or just ignore it and hope our kids pick it up on their own:)
NOT a SAHM | 2:23 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
The problem with these comments and with Sister Beck's talk is that so many
of them demean the "career" women.
Sister Beck said "Mothers who know bear Children". That is not true. Many women "Know" but do NOT bear children, and they are not sinners! Beck implies that women should at least DESIRE to bear children. That is also not true. Many wonderful women have no desire to bear children, and that does not make them sinners nor detract from their "knowing"!
Beck said "Mothers Who Know Are Nurturers" and "Another word for nurturing is homemaking." The obvious message is that women who are gainfully employed outside the home, and especially those who WANT to be a "career woman" DON'T KNOW and are sinners! That is absolutely NOT TRUE!
The entire tone of Beck's talk was essentially this: "Women who KNOW are like me! Women who are NOT like me are ignorant (don't know) and sinful!"
We take offense because it was OFFENSIVE. We are bothered by it because (as shown by these comments) it is an all-too-common attitude of self-righteous arrogance in the Church. SAHMs have a strong animosity toward us and we are hurt by it!
Sister Beck said "Mothers who know bear Children". That is not true. Many women "Know" but do NOT bear children, and they are not sinners! Beck implies that women should at least DESIRE to bear children. That is also not true. Many wonderful women have no desire to bear children, and that does not make them sinners nor detract from their "knowing"!
Beck said "Mothers Who Know Are Nurturers" and "Another word for nurturing is homemaking." The obvious message is that women who are gainfully employed outside the home, and especially those who WANT to be a "career woman" DON'T KNOW and are sinners! That is absolutely NOT TRUE!
The entire tone of Beck's talk was essentially this: "Women who KNOW are like me! Women who are NOT like me are ignorant (don't know) and sinful!"
We take offense because it was OFFENSIVE. We are bothered by it because (as shown by these comments) it is an all-too-common attitude of self-righteous arrogance in the Church. SAHMs have a strong animosity toward us and we are hurt by it!
luvsisbeck! | 2:29 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
A Mormon Stuck in 2008 said: ***As much as I respect the advice of the prophets
of old, they lived in the context of their times, and we live in ours.***
Their words apply to us today just as much as they did to others in their day. No different than saying that Christ's words applied to us then & they apply to us now as they were his mouthpiece...then & now.
Their words apply to us today just as much as they did to others in their day. No different than saying that Christ's words applied to us then & they apply to us now as they were his mouthpiece...then & now.
Anonymous | 2:39 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
A Mormon stuck in 2008 said: **The church is there to provide
"advice", and doctine so that we can become an eternal family.**
It's not just advice but counsel from the Lord to our Leaders which the Lord expects us to heed/follow. Of course we have our agency to do so or not & if we choose not we'll answer to the Lord for that choice.
**Being an active Mormon, I am always left thinking, Mormons are weird.
Peculiar, maybe, but definately weird...**
We get enough flak from the world because they feel our standards & way of life are weird, too strict, etc. Who cares what the world thinks anyway...as a member, seems you'd be more concerned what the Lord thinks about you/the things you do here regardless of if the world thinks you're weird, peculiar, etc.
It's not just advice but counsel from the Lord to our Leaders which the Lord expects us to heed/follow. Of course we have our agency to do so or not & if we choose not we'll answer to the Lord for that choice.
**Being an active Mormon, I am always left thinking, Mormons are weird.
Peculiar, maybe, but definately weird...**
We get enough flak from the world because they feel our standards & way of life are weird, too strict, etc. Who cares what the world thinks anyway...as a member, seems you'd be more concerned what the Lord thinks about you/the things you do here regardless of if the world thinks you're weird, peculiar, etc.
luvsisbeck! | 3:05 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
Clarify said: "Young men who were blessing and passing should be
encouraged to wear a white shirt, but it was not required and they should not be
denied the opportunity to participate if they had on another colored shirt. When
Sis. Beck said white shirt I don't think she meant it literally, just clean
and pressed."
A while back a GA talked about this. The color white represents purity - same reason we wear white in the temple & our chapels should be treated with the same respect as are our temples. I think Sis. Beck meant white literally for the reasons I stated. The Lord tests our commitment & obedience even in the smallest of things such as men & boys wearing white shirts to church. Our level of commitment to the Lord or lack of it comes through in the way we respond to even the small things the He asks of us.
A while back a GA talked about this. The color white represents purity - same reason we wear white in the temple & our chapels should be treated with the same respect as are our temples. I think Sis. Beck meant white literally for the reasons I stated. The Lord tests our commitment & obedience even in the smallest of things such as men & boys wearing white shirts to church. Our level of commitment to the Lord or lack of it comes through in the way we respond to even the small things the He asks of us.
Anonymous | 3:18 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
Podium said: 'I find it interesting that they are so angry with Sister
Beck. Why not the LDS church in general? She is just the messenger.'
Exactly.
Exactly.
luvsisbeck! | 3:17 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
Many have said her talk only applies to mothers but I disagree as many aspects
can apply to all women.
mother7 | 3:18 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
So much clatter and chatter over the words of one person. These questions and
concerns are very important, indeed. The Being to address and listen to
regarding deeply important issues of how to live our best lives, using ALL of
our God given capacities, is God. God loves all and is available to all.
We do not need a another human being to represent our Father and His divine
guidance for each one of us. Ask, trust and learn to commune with God.
Follow God's voice. Learn to trust that beautiful inner voice and
knowing. The "how" has been written in your hearts. This is
one of the greatest responsibilities and gifts we have been given. Though I
am human, I will give some advice. NEVER give over your own Divinely graced
mind, heart and will to anyone who claims to speak to you on behalf of God.
Lisa P. | 3:25 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
My mother worked fulltime outside the home, pursued a college education and a
professional career, and raised seven children, ALL of whom graduated from
seminary, served honorable missions, married in the temple, and remain faithful
to this day.
She also supported the Equal Rights Amendment in its day, supports women's right to have an abortion, and supports the right of gay people to be married. She and her second husband (my father died of cancer) are serving their third mission for the Church right now.
She is one of the most remarkable women I have ever met. She is highly educated, retired from a successful career, raised 7 children very well, taught early morning seminary while working full time and raising us, completed her education AFTER having started her family and while working fulltime, and served in every Ward and Stake calling imaginable for women (Stake RS President, Stake YW President, and others). She has emailed me that she thinks Sister Beck's talk was "an abomination". I agree completely.
Each woman must find what her own heart tells her regarding having children, education, career, and personal matters. Beck has no right to condemn others for being different than her.
She also supported the Equal Rights Amendment in its day, supports women's right to have an abortion, and supports the right of gay people to be married. She and her second husband (my father died of cancer) are serving their third mission for the Church right now.
She is one of the most remarkable women I have ever met. She is highly educated, retired from a successful career, raised 7 children very well, taught early morning seminary while working full time and raising us, completed her education AFTER having started her family and while working fulltime, and served in every Ward and Stake calling imaginable for women (Stake RS President, Stake YW President, and others). She has emailed me that she thinks Sister Beck's talk was "an abomination". I agree completely.
Each woman must find what her own heart tells her regarding having children, education, career, and personal matters. Beck has no right to condemn others for being different than her.
Talk didn't solve one problem | 3:56 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
I remember as a boy, playing baseball with my friends, mom would call us in with
a soft, sweet voice, our sandwiches were made, with only 1/2 flass of juice, If
you finished the juice, water was your preferred beverage for the rest of the
meal. Dad was there, I'd jump on his lap, and beg him to go play catch with
us and our dog Spike. Good days.
It was fun. that was the way we lived, or at leas the way I imaginied it. I had a staty at home mom, We'd get home and try to sneak out, but the house was alarmed. After a paddle, we'd get to work on our chores that often took us until 2-3 in the morning, Mom and Dad, passed out on the bed half naked, my biggest brother would put us to bed. He often got the belt because our jobs peren't perect.
My Big Brother
Brad killed himself about 5 years ago, same day Mary, my youngest sister moved out with her boyfriend, They were pregnant.
My Mothere Knew she needed babies to make her life easier.
She was one of those "Mother's who Know".
Thanks Sis Beck.
UKNEW2.
It was fun. that was the way we lived, or at leas the way I imaginied it. I had a staty at home mom, We'd get home and try to sneak out, but the house was alarmed. After a paddle, we'd get to work on our chores that often took us until 2-3 in the morning, Mom and Dad, passed out on the bed half naked, my biggest brother would put us to bed. He often got the belt because our jobs peren't perect.
My Big Brother
Brad killed himself about 5 years ago, same day Mary, my youngest sister moved out with her boyfriend, They were pregnant.
My Mothere Knew she needed babies to make her life easier.
She was one of those "Mother's who Know".
Thanks Sis Beck.
UKNEW2.
TO: NOT a SAHM... | 4:09 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
QUOTE
"Beck said "Mothers Who Know Are Nurturers" and "Another word for nurturing is homemaking." The obvious message is that women who are gainfully employed outside the home, and especially those who WANT to be a "career woman" DON'T KNOW and are sinners! That is absolutely NOT TRUE!" UNQUOTE
To truly understand the message, you have to first believe that God loves us. I believe that the leaders do as well for that is the foundation of their calling. You can then understand Sister Beck's intent. By not making excuses and simply doing the best you can in the situation you find yourself in is all that God asks. It really is that simple. It's not easy, but worth it in the end.
If you choose not to do them, that is your choice. However, you might not find what your looking for. True and meaningful happiness is in doing what is right. The best way to know these things is to listen and follow the directions given to us by our church leaders, that is if you believe they are called of God. I believe they are.
Experiment on her words. You might be surprised:).
"Beck said "Mothers Who Know Are Nurturers" and "Another word for nurturing is homemaking." The obvious message is that women who are gainfully employed outside the home, and especially those who WANT to be a "career woman" DON'T KNOW and are sinners! That is absolutely NOT TRUE!" UNQUOTE
To truly understand the message, you have to first believe that God loves us. I believe that the leaders do as well for that is the foundation of their calling. You can then understand Sister Beck's intent. By not making excuses and simply doing the best you can in the situation you find yourself in is all that God asks. It really is that simple. It's not easy, but worth it in the end.
If you choose not to do them, that is your choice. However, you might not find what your looking for. True and meaningful happiness is in doing what is right. The best way to know these things is to listen and follow the directions given to us by our church leaders, that is if you believe they are called of God. I believe they are.
Experiment on her words. You might be surprised:).
Anonymous | 4:27 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
See her bio below, which explains her remarks to some extent. Note that she
only had three kids - you can draw the conclusion you want from that.
Julie Bangerter Beck biography
Family: Born Sept. 29, 1954, in Salt Lake City, Utah to Wm. Grant and Geraldine Hamblin Bangerter. Married Ramon Paul Beck on Dec. 28, 1973, in the Salt Lake Temple. Three children: Gerilyn (Seth) Merrill, Joseph (Andrea) and Heidi (Daniel) Shin; eight grandchildren.
Education: Graduated from Dixie College with associate degree, 1974; graduated from BYU with bachelor's degree in family science, 1981.
Community service: PTA president and officer; local contest director with America's Junior Miss Scholarship program; officer and member in various music teacher associations.
Church Service: First counselor in Young Women general presidency (2002-2007); former member of Young Women general board, Primary president, teacher and counselor, Scout leader, Young Women adviser, counselor and president, camp director, Relief Society teacher, counselor in stake Relief Society presidency; served with husband in Missionary Training Center branch.
Julie Bangerter Beck biography
Family: Born Sept. 29, 1954, in Salt Lake City, Utah to Wm. Grant and Geraldine Hamblin Bangerter. Married Ramon Paul Beck on Dec. 28, 1973, in the Salt Lake Temple. Three children: Gerilyn (Seth) Merrill, Joseph (Andrea) and Heidi (Daniel) Shin; eight grandchildren.
Education: Graduated from Dixie College with associate degree, 1974; graduated from BYU with bachelor's degree in family science, 1981.
Community service: PTA president and officer; local contest director with America's Junior Miss Scholarship program; officer and member in various music teacher associations.
Church Service: First counselor in Young Women general presidency (2002-2007); former member of Young Women general board, Primary president, teacher and counselor, Scout leader, Young Women adviser, counselor and president, camp director, Relief Society teacher, counselor in stake Relief Society presidency; served with husband in Missionary Training Center branch.
Re; luvsisbeck | 4:36 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
It is my understanding that young men participating in blessing and passing the
Sacrament are not REQUIRED to wear a white shirt. They should be encouraged to
do so, but allowed to participate regardless of shirt color if they are worthy.
One Sunday many years ago, my teenage son got up early so he could come with me
and help set up the Primary room as I was in the presidency. I'd sent him
to the library when I heard someone loudly chastise him for not wearing a white
shirt. He told her he wasn't officiating that week and that he always wore
one when he blessed it. She angrily told him that didn't matter. I then
went into the hall and kindly explained to her that she was waaaay out of line.
My son was and still is a very good kid. In fact, he really isn't a kid
anymore. He's an RM and will be getting married in the Temple in a few
months. Her son hasn't set foot in church for years and is currently
living with his girlfriend. I say pick your battles.
member teachings | 5:55 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
Member teachings need to stop. They are someone's OPINION, not a directive
from Salt Lake. I read in a priesthood bulletin that was sent directly from
Church headquarters and sent to every unit in the Church that WHITE SHIRTS ARE
NOT REQUIRED TO BLESS OR PASS THE SACRAMENT. Personal worthiness is. Young men
should be encouraged to wear white shirts, but allowed to participate otherwise,
if they are worthy. If that policy has changed and someone can show me where I
can find the official policy change, I will stand corrected.
white shirts | 6:39 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
I see priests and deacons all the time wearing a white shirt underneath a
colored sweater. What is the big deal? Members freak out over the silliest
things sometimes. I agree, pick your battles. I've seen deacons with long
hair passing the Sacrament. They're good kids just going through a phase
that lots of teens go through. I tell their exasperated parents, "if thats
the worst thing they do, be happy, it could be far worse. It's not worth
damaging your relationship over and I guarantee the day will come when
you'll all have a good laugh over how silly they looked. Keep them close to
you and you'll keep them close to the Church."
me | 9:09 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
It seems as if the real issue behind the comments is, "Do my actions as a
person (man or woman) affect my relationships and personal sanity?"
Obviously, the answer is YES! Children (and people) respond to our actions and base their behaviors toward us by how we act. It is very evident that many families with SAHMs are dysfunctional, and many are also very successful. It can also be said for families with a career oriented mother. What really matters (if you disagree that's perfectly fine, because this is my opinion) is that no matter what your circumstance, as long as your children know that they are the most important aspect of your life and you do your best to allow them that security, you are doing your job as a parent.
I believe that what Sis. Beck is trying to say is that "Women who know" will do everything in their power to place their family first and really strive to create a safe and loving home. Also a little advice, give them some freedom to decide what they believe and they might suprise you! :)
Obviously, the answer is YES! Children (and people) respond to our actions and base their behaviors toward us by how we act. It is very evident that many families with SAHMs are dysfunctional, and many are also very successful. It can also be said for families with a career oriented mother. What really matters (if you disagree that's perfectly fine, because this is my opinion) is that no matter what your circumstance, as long as your children know that they are the most important aspect of your life and you do your best to allow them that security, you are doing your job as a parent.
I believe that what Sis. Beck is trying to say is that "Women who know" will do everything in their power to place their family first and really strive to create a safe and loving home. Also a little advice, give them some freedom to decide what they believe and they might suprise you! :)
Quiet One | 9:10 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
As an active member I find it difficult to attend R.S. I was raped years ago and
will never have children. I'm not asking for petty but understanding; that
we as women can be of great wealth in so many other ways beside having babies.
Including women with children. This seems to be an oversite in the wards
I've been in. No children-little worth. I KNOW that's not what my
Heavenly Father thinks of us. But, in many wards it the way members treat the
motherless.
Thank you Quiet One P.S. it's me | 9:25 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
Wow, I would have to agree with you. My comment earlier was pretty one-sided
towards women with children. As an LDS male teenager, I think that all women
have incredible value. I have seen time and time again sisters who don't or
can't have children performing countless acts of service in church and in
their communities. for some people who can't have children, it must be
incredibly painful, and I will probably never be able to understand that. and
for those who don't want them I can respect their decision. My opinion is
that as long as a person strives to be the best they can be within their own
personal beliefs, that anybody else's opinion is pointless, because as long
as they are striving to be better they are as close to perfection as can be
attained in this life!
no one | 10:07 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
should ever judge why someone doesn't have kids. it is none of their
business. give them the benefit of the doubt and know their reasons are valid
ones. some can't and don't want to adopt and don't want to
explain that to satisfy everyone's curiosity. some have tried to adopt more
than once and each time the birth mother changed her mind. maybe some are too
afraid to have kids because of emotional trauma. I know a prominent sister who
never had children and oh my goodness, what a wonderful, wonderful woman she is
and such a blessing to her extended family as well as the rest of us.
Betsy | 10:17 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
Pride goeth before a fall.
the Husband | 1:11 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008
I am married to a well-educated professional woman who is also the terrific
mother of our four children. We met in New York City where my wife earned an
MBA in international finance from NYU and had a very successful career on Wall
Street. She continued working full-time from home until the birth of our second
child. At that point, she made the difficult choice to stop working for others
and focus full time on raising our children and managing our home - for a
season. By that time, I had finished graduate school and started my career. We
are a TEAM! Both of us considered Julie Beck's conference address one of
the best we had ever heard. We are completely puzzled why anyone would be
offended by hearing Sis. Beck state so clearly the Church's postion on the
ideal of Motherhood.
Mothers love | 2:20 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008
Adam said:
Therefore shall a man leave his (father) and his (mother), and shall cleave unto his wife:
Adam loved his heavenly mother and was taught many wonderful things by her.
I grew up in an orphanage and missed the wonderful love I see so many LDS mothers giving their children.
And I have seen the love sons and daughters have for their wonderful mothers.
I worked hard so my wife could stay home with our four children, I will always be happy because I did.
Oh! That I could have had a childhood with an LDS mother.
You don't realize how much you are admired.
Therefore shall a man leave his (father) and his (mother), and shall cleave unto his wife:
Adam loved his heavenly mother and was taught many wonderful things by her.
I grew up in an orphanage and missed the wonderful love I see so many LDS mothers giving their children.
And I have seen the love sons and daughters have for their wonderful mothers.
I worked hard so my wife could stay home with our four children, I will always be happy because I did.
Oh! That I could have had a childhood with an LDS mother.
You don't realize how much you are admired.
Koko Warner | 3:50 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008
Sister Beck�s talk: two thirds just fine, one third rather
bewildering. Why would ANYONE want to tell a Mormon woman to be "the
best"? That is absurdly offensive to non-Mormon women, and laughable for
anyone who knows the industrious sub-culture of Mormon women. Most women and
girls are already killing themselves trying to keep up with strict cultural
norms--what we look like, how well we manage our lives, etc.
Beck�s unfortunate wording was a call to greater
competitiveness than a gentle reminder to love God and woman- and mankind. For
leading the world�s largest women�s
organization, Beck�s talk seemed oblivious of important
streams of thought on women and society (within and outside the church). Without
extending a word or a signal of "let�s discuss"
to alternative views, I felt alienated--the "best" of anything seems
unrealistic for me at this mid-life stage of keeping a marriage together,
raising little boys, pursuing a demanding and rewarding career, trying to keep
my tomato and zuchini plants alive... Beck�s talk was out
of touch--a more loving, pragmatic, "we can do this thing together"
tone would have been more effective. We must expect more from the leadership of
a nearly 5 million strong organization.
anonymous | 5:35 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008
It was an interesting talk and I have to admit I was angry at first. It has
been a difficult year for my family. I wish I oould know how to be a mother and
know what I was doing was right, but here I am after another night of no sleep
wondering how I am going to make it through the next day without yelling at my
children and teach them correct principles. Regardless mothering is important
and a serious job no matter how you put it.
Mike R. | 8:13 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008
If Margaret Toscanco says it it must be true. We should always follow the
advice of a former member of the church who was excommunicated for APOSTACY.
Since she is so smart and knows more than anyone else, including people that are
called by God, we should blindly follow her.
Her opinion is just that, an opinion. She thinks that she knows better than church leaders. I for one read Sister Beck's talk and I found nothing in it that was the least bit controversial. Only those looking to cast dispersions or nit picking are upset. Ms. Toscano needs to get over her education and humble herself. Or maybe pray to the Mother in Heaven for help.
Her opinion is just that, an opinion. She thinks that she knows better than church leaders. I for one read Sister Beck's talk and I found nothing in it that was the least bit controversial. Only those looking to cast dispersions or nit picking are upset. Ms. Toscano needs to get over her education and humble herself. Or maybe pray to the Mother in Heaven for help.
Full Time Mom | 8:13 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008
Who would ever feel victimized or acted upon or confined or enslaved by CHOOSING
to stay home with her children? It is very fulfilling for me to be able to play
the role of mother in every sense. Then there is my all time hero, Ardeth Kapp,
who didn't have any children of her own and yet became mother to thousands
(me included) by her gentle and loving leadership. The key is asking the Lord
what His will is for us and then run with it. The Church is here to help us in
our road to become Christ's disciples, which cannot be done if we have the
"me first" mentality.
J. | 8:52 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008
It is so sad when so many people become apostate over the words of a church
leader. What makes it even worse is the deceptive tactics used by the leaders of
this anti movement.
"For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts." 2 Tim. 3: 6
"For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts." 2 Tim. 3: 6
carlee | 9:06 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008
When I heard the talk, I wasn't offended at all, but thought "here we
go." I knew some would be. I knew when she talked about being the best
Mothers and homemakers many would be offended. Guess which ones I was thinking
of? Those whose homes and children are completely out of control. (I wonder if
there is a correlation.) These are the women who whine about how overwhelmed
they are and expect loads of sympathy. All the while they do nothing to solve
their own problems. They expect everyone else to cut them some slack. After
all a woman with 5 kids has absolutely no idea what stress is since she
doesn't have 8 kids. They don't think they should be asked to serve in
Primary because I'm with kids all day long. Guess what, so are we!!!
I'm soooo sick of their whining. Take her talk to heart and then get up
and do something about your sad state of affairs. Just do it. I"m so
grateful for the oh so slightly dysfunctional Mormon families since there is no
such thing as perfection in this lifeand appreciate counsel and motivation to
help us do better.
CougarKeith | 9:06 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008
Well when 1 Talk gains so much adversity, yet so much support from the Brethren,
something isn't right in the WORLD! Sounds like a lot of SELFISH WOMEN
& Men to me! Ever stop to consider the roll of women in the future
generations after they are gone, there are the Fruits of their work, not so much
while they are here! Those who oppose the views are selfishly considering what
else they could be doing with their time and efforts rather than look out for
the NEXT GENERATION and keep it on the right track. For those who can't be
Mothers, your role is no less diminished, You are of royal inheritance,
teachers, nurturers and loving women who will be mothers on the other side of
the veil if you prepare yourselves for it. Then again, once more, there is
selfishness allowing anger to take over the natural man and not allow the
spiritual man to take over and understand the message which was being given, and
the spirit by which it was meant to be understood. May God Bless You to see by
the Spirit the true meaning of the message, that you might understand it better.
luvsisbeck! | 9:20 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008
I just re-read my many posts on this thread and it hit me in the face that I
have said things that could be hurtful and imply judgement toward my sisters in
the community. I apologize. I could have phrased things better. I could have
better considered your perspective.
I think I was coming down off a sleepless high after serving at girls camp and getting caught up on canning. Please forgive me. We all have value and there are many, many ways to walk a righteous path including being former LDS.
I think I was coming down off a sleepless high after serving at girls camp and getting caught up on canning. Please forgive me. We all have value and there are many, many ways to walk a righteous path including being former LDS.
Repentence | 9:56 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008
Isn't that what Conference is all about...? Learning our errand from the
Lord, seeing if our lives match it, and then adjusting, repenting, obeying if it
needs amending. The people in Noah's day had their own thoughts about
life. The prophet, and other leaders do have our best interests at heart. We
can choose to obey and find eternal happiness, or we can choose to follow a more
selfish path and learn the consequences. Its our choice.
Harriet | 10:02 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008
I enjoyed Sisters Beck's comments. Every woman married or not with children
or not could get something of worth out of her address. We should all aspire to
to be and do better. If you are upset by what was said by her you should look in
a mirror and ask what part of this problem is mine.
DC | 10:13 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008
Whatwomenknow.org should be asking themselves why they really find offense at
this talk
1 Ne. 16:2
...the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.
2 Ne. 9:40
I know that the words of truth are hard against all uncleanness; but the righteous fear them not, for they love the truth and are not shaken.
John 3:20
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
1 Ne. 16:2
...the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.
2 Ne. 9:40
I know that the words of truth are hard against all uncleanness; but the righteous fear them not, for they love the truth and are not shaken.
John 3:20
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
re:Anonymous | 2:39 p.m | 10:59 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008
**Being an active Mormon, I am always left thinking, Mormons are weird.
Peculiar, maybe, but definately weird...**
"We get enough flak from the world because they feel our standards & way of life are weird, too strict, etc. Who cares what the world thinks anyway...as a member, seems you'd be more concerned what the Lord thinks about you/the things you do here regardless of if the world thinks you're weird, peculiar, etc."
Re-read my quote again. I did not say that I cared what the world thinks...
I said that "mormons are weird". We are. We get all torqued up over the smallest things, and we can't rest until everyone comforms to my, wait his, no, her... no their particular way of thinking.
I'm fine with what the Lord thinks of me. I don't care what other LDS, such as yourself thinks. That's what bugs you, and makes you weird.
Loosen up all fellow Mormons. Perfections is a goal, and I don't need 90 posts by John Pack Lambert telling me how to live. Just the "Advice/Counsel (synonyms--you're splitting hairs)" from the GA's and I'll be fine. The Lord and I have a deal.
I'm gonna be GREAT.
You're weird.
Peculiar, maybe, but definately weird...**
"We get enough flak from the world because they feel our standards & way of life are weird, too strict, etc. Who cares what the world thinks anyway...as a member, seems you'd be more concerned what the Lord thinks about you/the things you do here regardless of if the world thinks you're weird, peculiar, etc."
Re-read my quote again. I did not say that I cared what the world thinks...
I said that "mormons are weird". We are. We get all torqued up over the smallest things, and we can't rest until everyone comforms to my, wait his, no, her... no their particular way of thinking.
I'm fine with what the Lord thinks of me. I don't care what other LDS, such as yourself thinks. That's what bugs you, and makes you weird.
Loosen up all fellow Mormons. Perfections is a goal, and I don't need 90 posts by John Pack Lambert telling me how to live. Just the "Advice/Counsel (synonyms--you're splitting hairs)" from the GA's and I'll be fine. The Lord and I have a deal.
I'm gonna be GREAT.
You're weird.
Gettin the flak from fellow LDS | 11:12 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008
luvsisbeck! | 2:29 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
A Mormon Stuck in 2008 said: ***As much as I respect the advice of the prophets of old, they lived in the context of their times, and we live in ours.***
The point is, canning, quilting, keeping the outhouse clean, sweeping the dirt floor, driving the wagon to town for suppies once a week are part of the "home-makers" job tuition.
We both have jobs, are home when the kids leave and return, my wife does not like to clean and I don't like to mow lawns, so we pay someone to do it.
That is the context of our times. We both work outside the home, and both nuture our kids. We don't have family night, because every night is spent with our children, we pray and read scriptures (I have a calling that i do during church, so I'm not at the chaple at night and all day Sunday).
I think in 2008 we can use some of the modern stuff, and utilize to be better parents than those from olden days.
My grandfather was working the fam from sun-up to sundown.
I can spend that time with my family.
A Mormon Stuck in 2008 said: ***As much as I respect the advice of the prophets of old, they lived in the context of their times, and we live in ours.***
The point is, canning, quilting, keeping the outhouse clean, sweeping the dirt floor, driving the wagon to town for suppies once a week are part of the "home-makers" job tuition.
We both have jobs, are home when the kids leave and return, my wife does not like to clean and I don't like to mow lawns, so we pay someone to do it.
That is the context of our times. We both work outside the home, and both nuture our kids. We don't have family night, because every night is spent with our children, we pray and read scriptures (I have a calling that i do during church, so I'm not at the chaple at night and all day Sunday).
I think in 2008 we can use some of the modern stuff, and utilize to be better parents than those from olden days.
My grandfather was working the fam from sun-up to sundown.
I can spend that time with my family.
Response | 11:23 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008
"Re; luvsisbeck | 4:36 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
It is my understanding that young men participating in blessing and passing the Sacrament are not REQUIRED to wear a white shirt. They should be encouraged to do so, but allowed to participate regardless of shirt color if they are worthy."
So about 20 years agao, I was Elder's Quorum President and we were working hard to keep one of our Elder's active. He and I were blessing the sacrament, and he was wearing a colored shirt without a tie.
The meeting was just about to start when the Deacon's Quorum Adviser came up and told him about the white shirt and tie thing, and told him he could bless the sacrament instead. I told him we were fine, I took off my tie and gave it to him and I belssed the sacrament without a tie. I do not think anyone partaking the sacrament that day lost their "soul", but I never saw my friend in church again.
Don't we get a bit twisted up in the little things there, fellow LDS.
One of the reasons I think Mormons are weird.
Wouldn't the lord be pleased all made it back?
It is my understanding that young men participating in blessing and passing the Sacrament are not REQUIRED to wear a white shirt. They should be encouraged to do so, but allowed to participate regardless of shirt color if they are worthy."
So about 20 years agao, I was Elder's Quorum President and we were working hard to keep one of our Elder's active. He and I were blessing the sacrament, and he was wearing a colored shirt without a tie.
The meeting was just about to start when the Deacon's Quorum Adviser came up and told him about the white shirt and tie thing, and told him he could bless the sacrament instead. I told him we were fine, I took off my tie and gave it to him and I belssed the sacrament without a tie. I do not think anyone partaking the sacrament that day lost their "soul", but I never saw my friend in church again.
Don't we get a bit twisted up in the little things there, fellow LDS.
One of the reasons I think Mormons are weird.
Wouldn't the lord be pleased all made it back?
re:luvsisbeck! | 9:20 a.m. | 11:25 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008
Wow, do you think so.
Now multiply that by 300 plus per ward, and there are plenty of peopl out there to tell us what to do.
Get some rest, and can some apricots for me. Otherwise, I'm going to need to buy a can at the store for 79 cents, and just think how that will affect my eternal salvation.
Now multiply that by 300 plus per ward, and there are plenty of peopl out there to tell us what to do.
Get some rest, and can some apricots for me. Otherwise, I'm going to need to buy a can at the store for 79 cents, and just think how that will affect my eternal salvation.
Richard - Moral Agency | 12:05 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008
I concur with the comment that Sister Beck's focus was on motherhood. I can
appreciate that not all capable LDS women want to be mothers. It is a very
challenging and demanding responsibility. It is also a calling that is essential
to Heavenly Father's objective of bringing to pass the eternal life of his
children. Those who determine that it is in their best interest not to be a
mother are loved and appreciated by Heavenly Father. Such women may concurrently
and consciously be deciding that they did not want the role of motherhood in the
life to come. The Savior taught that in his Father's house are many
mansions, or kingdoms. Not all women will be exalted beings. That does not mean
that the cannot, nor will not, be happy in the life to come. "Know this
that every soul is free to choose his life and what he[she] will be, for this
eternal truth is given, God will force no man[women] to heaven [exaltation in
the celestial kingdon]." God and all faithful LDS saints love women
regardless of their choices.
Knock it off | 12:17 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008
respond"Repentence | 9:56 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008
"Isn't that what conference is all about"...
Have you read these posts? Don't ya'll think people get tired of others telling them what to do? Quoting you "We can choose to obey and find eternal happiness, or we can choose to follow a more selfish path and learn the consequences. Its our choice."
Where in conference was the word "selfish" used?
From a fellow Mormon, cut all the judgemental, self-righteous, know-it-all, arrogant crap, life your OWN life, and let us live ours. I see where all the mormon hate in this area comes from.
And I know, me posting tha is judgemental, but please, leave me alone. I don't want your help. God and I have a deal, and I'm fine...
"Isn't that what conference is all about"...
Have you read these posts? Don't ya'll think people get tired of others telling them what to do? Quoting you "We can choose to obey and find eternal happiness, or we can choose to follow a more selfish path and learn the consequences. Its our choice."
Where in conference was the word "selfish" used?
From a fellow Mormon, cut all the judgemental, self-righteous, know-it-all, arrogant crap, life your OWN life, and let us live ours. I see where all the mormon hate in this area comes from.
And I know, me posting tha is judgemental, but please, leave me alone. I don't want your help. God and I have a deal, and I'm fine...
Easy street | 12:24 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008
It's to hard wa wa wa! I want a religion that doesn't require any
effort or wa wa wa.
re: DC | 10:13 a.m. | 12:27 p.m. Aug. 14, 2008
Serious dude, if iwanted pentacostal, I would be thumping bibles down in the
South.
Imagine this possibility, God knows us, loves us, and is our friend.
Don't take this too hard:
To:
You, Luvsibeck, John Lambert et al.
Please stop pontificating and leave us alone...
1 Ne. 16:2
...the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.
Pray about all the selfrighteous damage you have done over the past few days.
Imagine this possibility, God knows us, loves us, and is our friend.
Don't take this too hard:
To:
You, Luvsibeck, John Lambert et al.
Please stop pontificating and leave us alone...
1 Ne. 16:2
...the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.
Pray about all the selfrighteous damage you have done over the past few days.
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Are you going to form your own church?
Will you allow men to attend?
Will you have women apostles?
Will you build your own temples?
Will you design your own Kingdom of Glory in the eternities, one without men?
I don�t know if the purpose of my questions is obvious or not, so let me be clear. As a husband, father, grandfather and great grandfather, I want to express my sorrow and disappointment for your apparent dissatisfaction, but having seen the hand of God in the lives of the women in our family and heard the powerful testimonies of hundreds of those you would consider oppressed, I feel to warn you that your course is a dangerous one that is leading you away from the light and truth, the eternal realities and what might be called the divine �facts of life�. You are in danger of forfeiting the opportunity to partake of a �fullness of joy� prepared from the foundation of the world for those who are humble and committed followers of the Lord (2 Nephi 9:18). I cannot imagine any sister who is sensitive to the spirit following such a course.