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LDS leader's '07 address still causing controversy

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  • Kirsten
    April 16, 2009 3:16 p.m.

    After reading through more of these comments it seems there are a lot of complaints about work and time. Boy the time and work involved with all this complaining has me exhausted! I'm going to take a nap with my 2 year old while my hubby is at work.

  • Kirsten
    April 15, 2009 9:17 a.m.

    I don't believe "risking" membership is the right phrase. They would be making the choice to no longer attend because of their "offended" nature. They would not be asked to leave. That is highly overdramatized.

    I liked a lot of the previous comments. I choose as did several of my non member friends to stay at home and raise my children. There is nothing degrading or lessening my purpose in life. There is no where I would rather be then at home. I feel sorry for my husband that he can't be here to see and experience the joys of our children everyday.

    The church has always said there are those who have no choice but to go to work. There is nothing wrong with that. Those to feel they are not complete until they have something outside to make them whole need to rethink why.

    Don't be so quick to be offended. Sister Beck was not speaking to offend, it is your choice to take it that way.

  • Motherhood IS all things
    March 14, 2009 4:31 p.m.

    I feel this whole discussion is self-evident of the motives of those who question their own religion in unproductive ways. When a person who views their membership in a faith as a tangential thing for which its customs and morays are not really relevant, they should not be upset or surprised when claims made by those whom they say lead them are different from what they would like to hear. I fully understand the pain of many, but it seems to me that this is an extremely powerful indicator of how powerful the original words were and powerfully different the spirit of the listeners was also. I don't pretend to think that anyone should swallow and word without pause, but those in the church already know that the words chosen by their leaders are careful, especially at the top and that the words spoken already account for the arguments made against it. Motherhood IS a broad term and should be accepted as inclusive and there is not real conflict in what was said even for our times. It will, has and should be said forever.

  • Thank You, Sis. Beck!
    Sept. 18, 2008 10:52 a.m.

    The talk that Sis. Beck gave was to the general public (all women in the church). Of course there are acceptions to the talk. It she listed every acception to what she had to say, it would take up the time of her talk. Elder Bednar gave a talk in Conference a year or two ago about "taking offense". I think a lot of these women who are haveing problems with this talk need to read his talk. She gave us the message that the Lord wanted us to here. All the Lord asks of us is to do our very best in all we do. How many women are doing there very best? I know that there is so much more I can do!

  • Sis. Black
    Sept. 18, 2008 10:42 a.m.

    I loved Sis. Beck's talk. I don't know anyone who doesn't want to be better than they are now. I needed the advice she gave on what to do to become a better Mother, wife and house keeper. She is giving us the message that the Lord want us to hear. These women who complain about this talk know better. Thank you Sis. Beck.

  • Kristina
    Aug. 20, 2008 1:53 p.m.

    Perhaps there's more to this life than defining our roles down to one narrowminded, foolish talk. Why would heavenly father give us our amazing brains if we weren't supposed to use them? Maybe there's a lot more to this thing we call life than what we've been allowed to think. Think about that...

  • Robert
    Aug. 19, 2008 12:15 p.m.

    I wonder what the emails and blogs would have been saying years ago when Noah was commanded to start building an ark in the middle of the desert. Thank you Sister Beck!

  • To Lacy from Denise
    Aug. 17, 2008 6:35 p.m.

    "Well, I did it. Last night I called the Bishopric Counselor (the Sunday School President was not available) and told him I would not be continuing in my calling. I was Gospel Doctrine instructor. I cancelled my visiting teaching appointments. I feel such a relief and so empowered! I dont care what the other women think of me anymore. It is so liberating! I can hardly describe how good it feels!"


    I'm happy for you! As someone who was openly judged for not wanting children and not wanting the "mothers who know" lifestyle, I am so much happier in a community that accepts me completely for who I am, which the LDS church didn't.

  • to Re: Still Lost 10:08 am
    Aug. 15, 2008 5:48 p.m.

    You said a mouthful. For years I have felt that being an active church member meant I had to choose between having a real family life and being at meetings, doing callings, and serving others. As a family we were running ragged. Finally wised up and downsized our outside activities, including church callings and meetings. We are much closer and much, much happier. We still attend church on Sundays, but mid-week activities are optional depending on what else we have going on as individuals and as a family.

  • Anna
    Aug. 15, 2008 12:07 p.m.

    Don't forget that if you have the gift of the Holy Ghost, you can know the truth for yourself. We're supposed to get our own confirmation of what our leaders tell us. If something doesn't sit with us right, we can take the matter to the Lord and say, "This doesn't sit with me right." Maybe the Holy Ghost has a personalized interpretation for us.

  • Re: Still Lost
    Aug. 15, 2008 10:08 a.m.

    While human beings make mistakes, and I have seen many mistakes made extending callings, my experience is that most callings are carefully and prayerfully considered.

    The real issue is not callings, however, but the slow expansion of demands on families (church programs/responsibilities/meetings, labor markets, schools/training, etc.). The gospel doesn't change, but church programs must change as needs do. Men are feeling the heat too; A 10-30+ hr/wk calling such as Bishop, StakePresident, Counselor, Scoutmaster, YMAdvisor, EQPresident, 11-Year-Old-Scout-Leader, ExecSecretary, etc.), providing for a family with a 40-60 hr/wk commitment to an employer, taking care of parents/ siblings/neighbors, keeping skills current in an increasingly competitive job market, etc., going to GirlsCamp/HighAdventure/ScoutCamp/YouthConferenc, etc. and still trying to be a husband and father.

    Demands outside of Utah/West are even greater with early morning seminary (teachers called from the wards-a 20-25+ hr/wk calling that starts at 5:00am M-F, kids up at 5:15) and more needy families with less extended family support. It's not uncommon to have 6-8 hometeaching families and multiple callings in an effort to meet all the needs and run church programs.

    We need to downsize the programs and demands on families or the church will end up harming rather than supporting families.

  • to To Lacy 9:02
    Aug. 15, 2008 9:44 a.m.

    Interesting you underscored "ex-bishop" with "male." Probably not necessary. :o)

  • to Lacy S
    Aug. 15, 2008 9:35 a.m.

    You go, girl!

    Remember the feeling. There will be times when you struggle and when the hurt seems overwhelming, but remember you are in charge of your direction. You know the situation you're in and what will work. Looks like you have the support of your husband as well. Together work out what's best for your family and follow that no matter what anyone else says. You will be happy.

  • tinytrooper
    Aug. 15, 2008 9:17 a.m.

    I hope i dont offend any women out there, but the one person i look up to and love more than any person in this world is my mother. Say all you want about disrespect, but in the eyes of a child a mother is the most important person around. i Love you Mom.

  • To Lacy
    Aug. 15, 2008 9:02 a.m.

    As a male and ex-bishop, I understand your frustration. My wife and I spent the first 3 years of our marriage childless (not by choice). I was called as a bishop shortly after we got married and so many people made comments to me like, "When are you going to have children? Or, "You are the bishop, shouldn't you be setting the example?" This hurt us, as we were spending tons of money on fertility treatments, and desired to have children. My point is that people can be very hurtful, even when they do not mean to be. One thing that I have learned is that we are all on our own (I include families in the singular) when it comes to our eternal salvation. It is a real shame when people make the choice to distance themselves from the gospel based largely on how other imperfect people make them feel. I have often wondered if any of us will ever make it to the Celestial kingdom based on our natural state and imperfections, but have come to realise that if we are trying hard and doing our very best, then a loving Father will welcome us back. Keep going.

  • Lacy S
    Aug. 15, 2008 8:32 a.m.

    Well, I did it. Last night I called the Bishopric Counselor (the Sunday School President was not available) and told him I would not be continuing in my calling. I was Gospel Doctrine instructor. I cancelled my visiting teaching appointments. I feel such a relief and so empowered! I dont care what the other women think of me anymore. It is so liberating! I can hardly describe how good it feels!

    Thank you for reading my comments. It was important for me to work through this. I am as excited about the future as I have ever been!

  • to Ken
    Aug. 15, 2008 1:22 a.m.

    They called it. . .

  • kourtney
    Aug. 15, 2008 1:18 a.m.

    Sister Beck's talk was absolutely amazing. I have had it on my mp3 player ever since and listen to it often. If what she said was not the doctrine of the church, then they would not have let her give the talk. Grow up and stop complaining about something that the church has held as one of it's core doctrines since the beginning. All the whining isn't going to change anything, just make those who understand the values and doctrines of the church more annoyed.

  • to Lacy
    Aug. 14, 2008 11:59 p.m.

    I hope you just mean you'll quit your calling and not quit the church. We need you, sister, and you need us. I've had some of the same feelings you describe about giving up on trying to meet others' expectations, and that's fine. I'd say it's good to go thru that -- it's growth. I find much of the social/cultural aspects of the church are actually discouraging to me, too, but I find simple joy in trying to live the commandments and have a relationship with the Lord. I hope you do, too.

  • A mother who wants to know
    Aug. 14, 2008 10:16 p.m.

    I am shocked. I was not raised in this culture. I have seen and experienced much. This was my favorite talk and one I want to live. I want to be a mother who knows. A mother who knows Christ. I thought it was beautiful. I am choosing to stay home with my children. I am choosing to follow the council given in conference. I am not perfect. BUT I will try to be a mother who knows. If that means I cut the cord of the T.V like Sister Erying than I will. I have had to not be prideful, try harder, and repent. I will do it because I know it is true and I love it.

  • Dear Lacy,
    Aug. 14, 2008 10:12 p.m.

    You will be missed. I sincerely mean that. I wish you could see how many in your ward see you, as a wonderful, organized woman and a cherished sister. My best friend is a Mom of 5 and has always worked full time. Every one of her kids are active in the Church and happy, healthy adults. She has asked me on several occasions if I think she should quit her job. I've always told her that it's not my place to tell her what to do. (I'm a SAHM) Only she knows the condition of her bank account or stress level or a myriad of other factors in why she works. She is prone to depression and for her, working helps her deal with it. BTW she is a RM. I love her and I love you and want what is best for you. Please don't let the critical ones bring you down. Your posts have opened alot of eyes and brought them to a realization of the error of their ways. I think the self rigteous attitude is far more common in Utah, having lived there 33 years. You could move:D just kidding. You are loved.

  • A Non-Utah Mormon
    Aug. 14, 2008 10:13 p.m.

    Honestly, the root of our problems here in Utah root for the culture of religious extremism. Although we have one of the most liberal christian religions in the world... Shall I recall the abortion policy by church, the no side on stemcell, openess to work with other religions (for all of you neocons, that means middle eastern terrorist organisations), and the comprehensive sight on homosexuals. Yet, we still intend to generate full-time mothers, and not respect the choice of some to help the family by full-time working. I find it so hypocritical. In my opinionreligion is true, but Utah mormons are getting so off their rockers on so many things that I feel we are competing with the bible belt to be the most self-righteous. Funny you get out of Utah, still keep it in the church, and you would never get such comments and reactions of people like the pro Beck movement. If you ever attend a church in other country and other language, you will notice they actually spend time talking about stuff that is worth it, and not about indoctrinating women into an idea of a mother-centric role. They are people too. This comes from a Mormon.

  • Culture of "Perfection"
    Aug. 14, 2008 9:25 p.m.

    I prefer Sister Beck's interpretation of perfection than the encroaching Utah culture of botox, breast implants, liposuction, tanning, microdermabrasion, and so many other procedures proudly practiced by women with a lot of money, too much time, and low self esteem.

    She teaches the gospel principles of developing spiritual talents that we will need in the life after this and asks us to take the responsibility to attend to our children whom we decided to have.

    All women work either in the home or outside of the home. Some are paid money. Some are not. That isn't the issue. It is what we do with our time and talents in preparing the next generation to be able to stand true to gospel principles.

    I am a product of a mom who went to work outside the home after her husband died. I have never viewed her as a perfect mom, although I know that in both circumstances she did the best that SHE could do. In both circumstances she had her priorities straight. She is not LDS. However, I have felt more empowered as an LDS woman than in the religion I was raised in. Sister Beck is right on.

  • to Lacy
    Aug. 14, 2008 8:26 p.m.

    I hear you.

    Best wishes for walking your walk with integrity to yourself. It's amazing how freeing and empowering it is. Oh, that everyone could feel the joy of being true to themselves.

  • Ken
    Aug. 14, 2008 8:23 p.m.

    I just listened to Julie Beck's talk again, I must say that I don't hear anything in there that hasn't been said by the leadership of the LDS Church many times before. She stated a set of true parenting principals that represent ideals, not absolute expectations or reality. For anyone to read insults into this talk to me seems unfair to Sis. Beck.

    Those who have and continue to take offense at this kind of fundamental Church doctrine are walking on their way out the door. My guess is that parenting outside the Church doesn't get any easier or more liberating than inside it.

    Boy, it's cliche, but beware of kicking against the pricks....

  • Lacy S
    Aug. 14, 2008 7:55 p.m.

    I understand what you are saying, but I just can't continue with all these other women criticizing and condemning me because I work fulltime. I have overlooked it for so long. They treat me like an outsider because I am not a stay at home mom like them. I know what they say behind my back. They say the same sickening things I have read on these comments. They accuse me of being worldly because I try to take care of myself and dress professionally and well. I like to look good, but I also dress well for my job. I like what I do and dressing well is who I am. I am tired of being judged for it because I am not like the other women. They are so condescending toward me, just like all the people on these comments. This has been brewing for me for about 5 years. I've talked with my husband about it. He supports me in whatever I want to do. But this is just it. I have had enough. I refuse to spend anymore nights crying myself to sleep because these women make me feel like such a horrible person.

  • Firestorm?
    Aug. 14, 2008 7:02 p.m.

    A firestorm of controversy occurred after the talk? I wouldn't call 500 signatures and the same old groups grinding their axes against the church a firestorm.

  • Re Marcus W
    Aug. 14, 2008 7:01 p.m.

    You are so right my brother! You nailed it! Dead center! Spot on! You are wise, maybe even a genius!

    Some of the rest of you sound really scarey! "Its all about MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!" Nothing else is as important as my FEELINGS!!!! I am a slave to how I FEEL! If you don't respect my FEELINGS, you are insensitive. If you don't respect MY feelings, you are despicable! That's what some of you sound like to me! Get over yourself! The world doesn't revolve around how you feel! Sister Beck is right on!

  • anonymus
    Aug. 14, 2008 6:09 p.m.

    I think people forget that when the original Releif society was formed the only role women had at that time was to be a mother. Times have changed and while some women can stay at home.. Some for whatever reason cant have children..

    Basically. I want to be respected for as a human being on this earth. Not for something that my body can do or not do.

    I dont want my membership to be any less because of that status

  • kathyn to Lacy S
    Aug. 14, 2008 5:59 p.m.

    I can honestly say that I have benefitted from every church calling, even though I may not have liked every calling. I have learned so much and continue to learn. At times, when I have had a lot of stress to deal with, kind bishops have been there to help me through things, and yes, have released me when I needed some time off. Each of us is an individual with different strengths and needs, and we are at different seasons in our lives. The bishop will understand that you are tired.

    So do take some time off, but don't remove yourself from the support the other ward members can give you. I am not judging; in fact I totally understand where you're coming from. I've been there. The older I've gotten, the more understanding I've become. The Lord knows your situation. He's the One who really matters, ultimately. Trust Him, please.

  • just wondering
    Aug. 14, 2008 5:56 p.m.

    I appreciate the clarification on Aaronic priesthood and white shirts. I understand the only men that need to wear white shirts to Sacrament mtg are those who sit on the stand. I see lots of white shirts and lots of colored shirts on worthy Melchizedek priesthood holders. My opinion is that it should be clean and pressed regardless of color. Some men wear suits, some sport coats and some are coatless, especially in warmer weather. Women aren't told exactly what to wear, just general guidelines of what is appropriate. I'd like to know an official answer, not a members opinion. thanks

  • newcomer to utah
    Aug. 14, 2008 5:54 p.m.

    I just got in. Who's this Sister Beck lady?

  • To: Lacy S.
    Aug. 14, 2008 5:34 p.m.

    We've all been there, Lacy. You've given all you have, and you barely have strength to walk to the outside trash to dump the diaper. But don't give up. Remember the Lord said,(D&C 10:40)Do not run faster or labor more than you have strength ... but be diligent unto the end. It's not about the Church or your calling or what your neighbors think about you working full-time. It's about your relationship with your Savior. Focus on that and on your family. Find out how the Atonement can work in your day--every day. Love your kids. Forget about what others may think. Remember this talk had to apply to 6 million women, and therefore had to be general. Forget about it. I wish we were neighbors. I'd be there for you. Maybe someone is. No one condemns you. Your life is yours, but Christ paid the price for it. Don't discount him. Chin up, girl. Working full-time does not devalue you. You are doing what you can. Keep it up. Don't try to please any one. It never works. God knows your heart. No one else's opinion means squat.

  • read it again
    Aug. 14, 2008 5:20 p.m.

    After hearing the initial post conference Beck Bash my wife asked that I read the talk and try to explain to her what all the excitement was about. We've read it together 5 times and still can't figure out why there's so many women turned sideways. My wife's been a starving college student, a poor newly wed, a middle income new mother, a successful business woman, and now a stay at home mother of 7 (ages 5-17) with money. Her view on this is..."women, use your energy and time on making your life as successful as you can, the Lord will fill in the gaps."

  • to re: still lost
    Aug. 14, 2008 4:31 p.m.

    Um, excuse me. I beg to differ with your opinion that "church leaders pray for inspiration in filling every single last calling in the ward. . ." I have been in the meetings where members are traded - I'll give you Jane if I can have Joe and Peter, I've got Paula and Molly up - how about giving me Dick, etc. I've also been called in and asked where I would like to next serve and we've hammered out a deal. I seen similar in wards in 19 states.

    I would say your experience of "every calling inspired" happens in a very small percentage of wards.

  • Lacy S.
    Aug. 14, 2008 4:22 p.m.

    I have read Beck's talk, and I have read this article, and I have read these comments, and you know what? This has helped me make up my mind. I am tired of trying to please everyone else. I am tired of being told what to do by everyone else. Call me selfish if you want, but I don't care anymore. I am going to resign from my Church calling and spend my Sundays just relaxing. I don't need all this condemnation just because I work fulltime. My life and my decisions are mine and none of you have any right to judge me. I have had it. I quit.

  • Non-LDS Observer
    Aug. 14, 2008 4:19 p.m.

    I think some of the tumult surrounding "the talk" by Julie Beck could be done away with (i.e., the alleged de-valuation of unmarried or childless women) by noting that Beck's second counselor in the General Relief Society Presidency, Barbara Thompson, has never been married. Judging from her bio, she is career woman with a lot of accomplishments to her credit.

  • Oh how I wish
    Aug. 14, 2008 3:59 p.m.

    members would stop judging and worrying what others - including our leaders - think of us and just worry about our relationship with the Savior. Are you doing the best YOU can do in your uniques situation? That's all that matters. And that answer is between you and the Lord - not Sister Beck, your Bishop, or anyone else. Each leader will likely have a different opinion of your situation so save yourself the guilt and just walk this life with the Lord. The Church is here for fellowship and opportunities to serve and love not to make us feel inadequate or judged.

  • HeManWomanHater
    Aug. 14, 2008 3:41 p.m.

    I was getting scared for a second.. where is the opposition that fights true religion? ah ha! here it is!

    Glad to see we're still running against the wind.

    Long live Sister Beck!

    and I don't hate women, I love them! I'm married to one of the best!

  • re: still lost
    Aug. 14, 2008 3:19 p.m.

    While I understand and agree that a major calling for a woman with multiple children is a huge, exhaustive undertaking, you do have to realize that they don't come from male leaders looking to make their lives easier. Church leaders pray for inspiration in filling every single last calling in the ward. Those choices are then verified by counselors who also pray for inspiration. I've seen it happen that way for callings as "small" as working in the library, playing piano in RS, or leading the YW choir. Callings come from the Lord, not from men or women in the ward.

  • To ALL
    Aug. 14, 2008 2:40 p.m.

    Reading the ranting and raving about motherhood just makes me want to say: I Love you, I love you, I love you!

    Do the best you can. That's all you can do!

  • LVIS
    Aug. 14, 2008 2:21 p.m.

    Re: Member Teachings at 5:55PM, Aug 13--

    Jeffrey Holland speaking:

    "May I suggest that wherever possible a white shirt be worn by the deacons, teachers, and priests who handle the sacrament. For sacred ordinances in the Church we often use ceremonial clothing, and a white shirt could be seen as a gentle reminder of the white clothing you wore in the baptismal font and an anticipation of the white shirt you will soon wear into the temple and onto your missions.

    That simple suggestion is not intended to be
    pharisaic or formalistic. We do not want deacons or priests in uniforms or unduly concerned about anything but the purity of their lives. But how our young people dress can teach a holy principle to us all, and it certainly can convey sanctity. As President David O. McKay taught, a white shirt contributes to the sacredness of the holy sacrament"

    So, you're right--not official "policy", for the pharisaic or formalistic in the crowd.

  • Kellie
    Aug. 14, 2008 2:09 p.m.

    I probably would have been offended by Julie Beck's talk about twenty years ago, when I was twelve and thought I was a feminist. Since then, I have learned for myself, not by anyone else telling me, what is important to me and where I fit in the grand scheme of things. It boils down to having our own confirmation of our purpose in life. Mine right now is to be a great mom when I am with my kids and a great therapist when I am at work and a great person of service when I am doing the duties I owe to God and humanity. I don't think Julie Beck is binding us to one role- she is encouraging us to set our priorities straight, and to rely on our Heavenly Father for guidance.

  • Marcus W
    Aug. 14, 2008 2:05 p.m.

    What is the point of this life? To bring to pass the eternal life and immortality of man!

    Why do church leaders hope that we will get married quickly? So that we can focus on someone else other than ourselves. When we serve others we serve our Heavenly Father.

    Why should we have children? So that again we can focus on serving others. The Lord wants us to raise children righteously, he wants them to learn the gospel, and know that they are loved.

    Why do we judge others as LDS members? To make ouselves feel better. Take some stress off of your life and let the Lord be the Judge.

    It all comes back to pride. What identity do "I" have? What about "MY" developement? Me Me Me.

  • still lost
    Aug. 14, 2008 12:36 p.m.

    Most ward and stake male leaders have no earthly idea what they're asking of a mother when they ask her to take a major calling. All they know is that they need their organization to function and they don't want to have to do all the hard work. Men must become more sensitive to women's roles and pressure. We're not here to perform for you. If we're going to believe that motherhood is the highest and noblest calling, then men in the church are going to have to start respecting our time and stress management issues.

  • lost in suburbia
    Aug. 14, 2008 12:35 p.m.

    I'm a mother of 5. I loved Julie Beck's talk because it was so bold. I love this debate, too, quite honestly. I think there should be more dialog between church leaders and those of us who are swimming in young motherhood.

    But I also think that while Beck's talk was aimed at value in motherhood, her list of traits was not exhaustive. It could have gone on for hours if she were to outline all the ways that women show they "know." The value of this debate will be if women make their own list of ways they show they know individually. Our strength comes in our collective individuality.

  • re: DC | 10:13 a.m.
    Aug. 14, 2008 12:27 p.m.

    Serious dude, if iwanted pentacostal, I would be thumping bibles down in the South.

    Imagine this possibility, God knows us, loves us, and is our friend.

    Don't take this too hard:

    To:
    You, Luvsibeck, John Lambert et al.

    Please stop pontificating and leave us alone...

    1 Ne. 16:2
    ...the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.

    Pray about all the selfrighteous damage you have done over the past few days.

  • Easy street
    Aug. 14, 2008 12:24 p.m.

    It's to hard wa wa wa! I want a religion that doesn't require any effort or wa wa wa.

  • Knock it off
    Aug. 14, 2008 12:17 p.m.

    respond"Repentence | 9:56 a.m. Aug. 14, 2008

    "Isn't that what conference is all about"...

    Have you read these posts? Don't ya'll think people get tired of others telling them what to do? Quoting you "We can choose to obey and find eternal happiness, or we can choose to follow a more selfish path and learn the consequences. Its our choice."

    Where in conference was the word "selfish" used?

    From a fellow Mormon, cut all the judgemental, self-righteous, know-it-all, arrogant crap, life your OWN life, and let us live ours. I see where all the mormon hate in this area comes from.

    And I know, me posting tha is judgemental, but please, leave me alone. I don't want your help. God and I have a deal, and I'm fine...

  • Richard - Moral Agency
    Aug. 14, 2008 12:05 p.m.

    I concur with the comment that Sister Beck's focus was on motherhood. I can appreciate that not all capable LDS women want to be mothers. It is a very challenging and demanding responsibility. It is also a calling that is essential to Heavenly Father's objective of bringing to pass the eternal life of his children. Those who determine that it is in their best interest not to be a mother are loved and appreciated by Heavenly Father. Such women may concurrently and consciously be deciding that they did not want the role of motherhood in the life to come. The Savior taught that in his Father's house are many mansions, or kingdoms. Not all women will be exalted beings. That does not mean that the cannot, nor will not, be happy in the life to come. "Know this that every soul is free to choose his life and what he[she] will be, for this eternal truth is given, God will force no man[women] to heaven [exaltation in the celestial kingdon]." God and all faithful LDS saints love women regardless of their choices.

  • re:luvsisbeck! | 9:20 a.m.
    Aug. 14, 2008 11:25 a.m.

    Wow, do you think so.

    Now multiply that by 300 plus per ward, and there are plenty of peopl out there to tell us what to do.

    Get some rest, and can some apricots for me. Otherwise, I'm going to need to buy a can at the store for 79 cents, and just think how that will affect my eternal salvation.

  • Response
    Aug. 14, 2008 11:23 a.m.

    "Re; luvsisbeck | 4:36 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
    It is my understanding that young men participating in blessing and passing the Sacrament are not REQUIRED to wear a white shirt. They should be encouraged to do so, but allowed to participate regardless of shirt color if they are worthy."

    So about 20 years agao, I was Elder's Quorum President and we were working hard to keep one of our Elder's active. He and I were blessing the sacrament, and he was wearing a colored shirt without a tie.

    The meeting was just about to start when the Deacon's Quorum Adviser came up and told him about the white shirt and tie thing, and told him he could bless the sacrament instead. I told him we were fine, I took off my tie and gave it to him and I belssed the sacrament without a tie. I do not think anyone partaking the sacrament that day lost their "soul", but I never saw my friend in church again.

    Don't we get a bit twisted up in the little things there, fellow LDS.

    One of the reasons I think Mormons are weird.

    Wouldn't the lord be pleased all made it back?

  • Gettin the flak from fellow LDS
    Aug. 14, 2008 11:12 a.m.

    luvsisbeck! | 2:29 p.m. Aug. 13, 2008
    A Mormon Stuck in 2008 said: ***As much as I respect the advice of the prophets of old, they lived in the context of their times, and we live in ours.***
    The point is, canning, quilting, keeping the outhouse clean, sweeping the dirt floor, driving the wagon to town for suppies once a week are part of the "home-makers" job tuition.

    We both have jobs, are home when the kids leave and return, my wife does not like to clean and I don't like to mow lawns, so we pay someone to do it.

    That is the context of our times. We both work outside the home, and both nuture our kids. We don't have family night, because every night is spent with our children, we pray and read scriptures (I have a calling that i do during church, so I'm not at the chaple at night and all day Sunday).

    I think in 2008 we can use some of the modern stuff, and utilize to be better parents than those from olden days.

    My grandfather was working the fam from sun-up to sundown.

    I can spend that time with my family.

  • re:Anonymous | 2:39 p.m
    Aug. 14, 2008 10:59 a.m.

    **Being an active Mormon, I am always left thinking, Mormons are weird.

    Peculiar, maybe, but definately weird...**

    "We get enough flak from the world because they feel our standards & way of life are weird, too strict, etc. Who cares what the world thinks anyway...as a member, seems you'd be more concerned what the Lord thinks about you/the things you do here regardless of if the world thinks you're weird, peculiar, etc."

    Re-read my quote again. I did not say that I cared what the world thinks...

    I said that "mormons are weird". We are. We get all torqued up over the smallest things, and we can't rest until everyone comforms to my, wait his, no, her... no their particular way of thinking.

    I'm fine with what the Lord thinks of me. I don't care what other LDS, such as yourself thinks. That's what bugs you, and makes you weird.

    Loosen up all fellow Mormons. Perfections is a goal, and I don't need 90 posts by John Pack Lambert telling me how to live. Just the "Advice/Counsel (synonyms--you're splitting hairs)" from the GA's and I'll be fine. The Lord and I have a deal.

    I'm gonna be GREAT.

    You're weird.

  • DC
    Aug. 14, 2008 10:13 a.m.

    Whatwomenknow.org should be asking themselves why they really find offense at this talk

    1 Ne. 16:2
    ...the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.

    2 Ne. 9:40
    I know that the words of truth are hard against all uncleanness; but the righteous fear them not, for they love the truth and are not shaken.


    John 3:20
    For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

  • Harriet
    Aug. 14, 2008 10:02 a.m.

    I enjoyed Sisters Beck's comments. Every woman married or not with children or not could get something of worth out of her address. We should all aspire to to be and do better. If you are upset by what was said by her you should look in a mirror and ask what part of this problem is mine.

  • Repentence
    Aug. 14, 2008 9:56 a.m.

    Isn't that what Conference is all about...? Learning our errand from the Lord, seeing if our lives match it, and then adjusting, repenting, obeying if it needs amending. The people in Noah's day had their own thoughts about life. The prophet, and other leaders do have our best interests at heart. We can choose to obey and find eternal happiness, or we can choose to follow a more selfish path and learn the consequences. Its our choice.

  • luvsisbeck!
    Aug. 14, 2008 9:20 a.m.

    I just re-read my many posts on this thread and it hit me in the face that I have said things that could be hurtful and imply judgement toward my sisters in the community. I apologize. I could have phrased things better. I could have better considered your perspective.

    I think I was coming down off a sleepless high after serving at girls camp and getting caught up on canning. Please forgive me. We all have value and there are many, many ways to walk a righteous path including being former LDS.

  • CougarKeith
    Aug. 14, 2008 9:06 a.m.

    Well when 1 Talk gains so much adversity, yet so much support from the Brethren, something isn't right in the WORLD! Sounds like a lot of SELFISH WOMEN & Men to me! Ever stop to consider the roll of women in the future generations after they are gone, there are the Fruits of their work, not so much while they are here! Those who oppose the views are selfishly considering what else they could be doing with their time and efforts rather than look out for the NEXT GENERATION and keep it on the right track. For those who can't be Mothers, your role is no less diminished, You are of royal inheritance, teachers, nurturers and loving women who will be mothers on the other side of the veil if you prepare yourselves for it. Then again, once more, there is selfishness allowing anger to take over the natural man and not allow the spiritual man to take over and understand the message which was being given, and the spirit by which it was meant to be understood. May God Bless You to see by the Spirit the true meaning of the message, that you might understand it better.

  • carlee
    Aug. 14, 2008 9:06 a.m.

    When I heard the talk, I wasn't offended at all, but thought "here we go." I knew some would be. I knew when she talked about being the best Mothers and homemakers many would be offended. Guess which ones I was thinking of? Those whose homes and children are completely out of control. (I wonder if there is a correlation.) These are the women who whine about how overwhelmed they are and expect loads of sympathy. All the while they do nothing to solve their own problems. They expect everyone else to cut them some slack. After all a woman with 5 kids has absolutely no idea what stress is since she doesn't have 8 kids. They don't think they should be asked to serve in Primary because I'm with kids all day long. Guess what, so are we!!! I'm soooo sick of their whining. Take her talk to heart and then get up and do something about your sad state of affairs. Just do it. I"m so grateful for the oh so slightly dysfunctional Mormon families since there is no such thing as perfection in this lifeand appreciate counsel and motivation to help us do better.

  • J.
    Aug. 14, 2008 8:52 a.m.

    It is so sad when so many people become apostate over the words of a church leader. What makes it even worse is the deceptive tactics used by the leaders of this anti movement.

    "For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts." 2 Tim. 3: 6

  • Full Time Mom
    Aug. 14, 2008 8:13 a.m.

    Who would ever feel victimized or acted upon or confined or enslaved by CHOOSING to stay home with her children? It is very fulfilling for me to be able to play the role of mother in every sense. Then there is my all time hero, Ardeth Kapp, who didn't have any children of her own and yet became mother to thousands (me included) by her gentle and loving leadership. The key is asking the Lord what His will is for us and then run with it. The Church is here to help us in our road to become Christ's disciples, which cannot be done if we have the "me first" mentality.

  • Mike R.
    Aug. 14, 2008 8:13 a.m.

    If Margaret Toscanco says it it must be true. We should always follow the advice of a former member of the church who was excommunicated for APOSTACY. Since she is so smart and knows more than anyone else, including people that are called by God, we should blindly follow her.

    Her opinion is just that, an opinion. She thinks that she knows better than church leaders. I for one read Sister Beck's talk and I found nothing in it that was the least bit controversial. Only those looking to cast dispersions or nit picking are upset. Ms. Toscano needs to get over her education and humble herself. Or maybe pray to the Mother in Heaven for help.

  • anonymous
    Aug. 14, 2008 5:35 a.m.

    It was an interesting talk and I have to admit I was angry at first. It has been a difficult year for my family. I wish I oould know how to be a mother and know what I was doing was right, but here I am after another night of no sleep wondering how I am going to make it through the next day without yelling at my children and teach them correct principles. Regardless mothering is important and a serious job no matter how you put it.

  • Koko Warner
    Aug. 14, 2008 3:50 a.m.

    Sister Becks talk: two thirds just fine, one third rather bewildering. Why would ANYONE want to tell a Mormon woman to be "the best"? That is absurdly offensive to non-Mormon women, and laughable for anyone who knows the industrious sub-culture of Mormon women. Most women and girls are already killing themselves trying to keep up with strict cultural norms--what we look like, how well we manage our lives, etc. Becks unfortunate wording was a call to greater competitiveness than a gentle reminder to love God and woman- and mankind. For leading the worlds largest womens organization, Becks talk seemed oblivious of important streams of thought on women and society (within and outside the church). Without extending a word or a signal of "lets discuss" to alternative views, I felt alienated--the "best" of anything seems unrealistic for me at this mid-life stage of keeping a marriage together, raising little boys, pursuing a demanding and rewarding career, trying to keep my tomato and zuchini plants alive... Becks talk was out of touch--a more loving, pragmatic, "we can do this thing together" tone would have been more effective. We must expect more from the leadership of a nearly 5 million strong organization.

  • Mothers love
    Aug. 14, 2008 2:20 a.m.

    Adam said:
    Therefore shall a man leave his (father) and his (mother), and shall cleave unto his wife:
    Adam loved his heavenly mother and was taught many wonderful things by her.
    I grew up in an orphanage and missed the wonderful love I see so many LDS mothers giving their children.
    And I have seen the love sons and daughters have for their wonderful mothers.
    I worked hard so my wife could stay home with our four children, I will always be happy because I did.
    Oh! That I could have had a childhood with an LDS mother.
    You don't realize how much you are admired.

  • the Husband
    Aug. 14, 2008 1:11 a.m.

    I am married to a well-educated professional woman who is also the terrific mother of our four children. We met in New York City where my wife earned an MBA in international finance from NYU and had a very successful career on Wall Street. She continued working full-time from home until the birth of our second child. At that point, she made the difficult choice to stop working for others and focus full time on raising our children and managing our home - for a season. By that time, I had finished graduate school and started my career. We are a TEAM! Both of us considered Julie Beck's conference address one of the best we had ever heard. We are completely puzzled why anyone would be offended by hearing Sis. Beck state so clearly the Church's postion on the ideal of Motherhood.

  • Betsy
    Aug. 13, 2008 10:17 p.m.

    Pride goeth before a fall.

  • no one
    Aug. 13, 2008 10:07 p.m.

    should ever judge why someone doesn't have kids. it is none of their business. give them the benefit of the doubt and know their reasons are valid ones. some can't and don't want to adopt and don't want to explain that to satisfy everyone's curiosity. some have tried to adopt more than once and each time the birth mother changed her mind. maybe some are too afraid to have kids because of emotional trauma. I know a prominent sister who never had children and oh my goodness, what a wonderful, wonderful woman she is and such a blessing to her extended family as well as the rest of us.

  • Thank you Quiet One P.S. it's me
    Aug. 13, 2008 9:25 p.m.

    Wow, I would have to agree with you. My comment earlier was pretty one-sided towards women with children. As an LDS male teenager, I think that all women have incredible value. I have seen time and time again sisters who don't or can't have children performing countless acts of service in church and in their communities. for some people who can't have children, it must be incredibly painful, and I will probably never be able to understand that. and for those who don't want them I can respect their decision. My opinion is that as long as a person strives to be the best they can be within their own personal beliefs, that anybody else's opinion is pointless, because as long as they are striving to be better they are as close to perfection as can be attained in this life!

  • Quiet One
    Aug. 13, 2008 9:10 p.m.

    As an active member I find it difficult to attend R.S. I was raped years ago and will never have children. I'm not asking for petty but understanding; that we as women can be of great wealth in so many other ways beside having babies. Including women with children. This seems to be an oversite in the wards I've been in. No children-little worth. I KNOW that's not what my Heavenly Father thinks of us. But, in many wards it the way members treat the motherless.

  • me
    Aug. 13, 2008 9:09 p.m.

    It seems as if the real issue behind the comments is, "Do my actions as a person (man or woman) affect my relationships and personal sanity?"
    Obviously, the answer is YES! Children (and people) respond to our actions and base their behaviors toward us by how we act. It is very evident that many families with SAHMs are dysfunctional, and many are also very successful. It can also be said for families with a career oriented mother. What really matters (if you disagree that's perfectly fine, because this is my opinion) is that no matter what your circumstance, as long as your children know that they are the most important aspect of your life and you do your best to allow them that security, you are doing your job as a parent.
    I believe that what Sis. Beck is trying to say is that "Women who know" will do everything in their power to place their family first and really strive to create a safe and loving home. Also a little advice, give them some freedom to decide what they believe and they might suprise you! :)

  • white shirts
    Aug. 13, 2008 6:39 p.m.

    I see priests and deacons all the time wearing a white shirt underneath a colored sweater. What is the big deal? Members freak out over the silliest things sometimes. I agree, pick your battles. I've seen deacons with long hair passing the Sacrament. They're good kids just going through a phase that lots of teens go through. I tell their exasperated parents, "if thats the worst thing they do, be happy, it could be far worse. It's not worth damaging your relationship over and I guarantee the day will come when you'll all have a good laugh over how silly they looked. Keep them close to you and you'll keep them close to the Church."

  • member teachings
    Aug. 13, 2008 5:55 p.m.

    Member teachings need to stop. They are someone's OPINION, not a directive from Salt Lake. I read in a priesthood bulletin that was sent directly from Church headquarters and sent to every unit in the Church that WHITE SHIRTS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO BLESS OR PASS THE SACRAMENT. Personal worthiness is. Young men should be encouraged to wear white shirts, but allowed to participate otherwise, if they are worthy. If that policy has changed and someone can show me where I can find the official policy change, I will stand corrected.

  • Re; luvsisbeck
    Aug. 13, 2008 4:36 p.m.

    It is my understanding that young men participating in blessing and passing the Sacrament are not REQUIRED to wear a white shirt. They should be encouraged to do so, but allowed to participate regardless of shirt color if they are worthy. One Sunday many years ago, my teenage son got up early so he could come with me and help set up the Primary room as I was in the presidency. I'd sent him to the library when I heard someone loudly chastise him for not wearing a white shirt. He told her he wasn't officiating that week and that he always wore one when he blessed it. She angrily told him that didn't matter. I then went into the hall and kindly explained to her that she was waaaay out of line. My son was and still is a very good kid. In fact, he really isn't a kid anymore. He's an RM and will be getting married in the Temple in a few months. Her son hasn't set foot in church for years and is currently living with his girlfriend. I say pick your battles.

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 13, 2008 4:27 p.m.

    See her bio below, which explains her remarks to some extent. Note that she only had three kids - you can draw the conclusion you want from that.



    Julie Bangerter Beck biography

    Family: Born Sept. 29, 1954, in Salt Lake City, Utah to Wm. Grant and Geraldine Hamblin Bangerter. Married Ramon Paul Beck on Dec. 28, 1973, in the Salt Lake Temple. Three children: Gerilyn (Seth) Merrill, Joseph (Andrea) and Heidi (Daniel) Shin; eight grandchildren.
    Education: Graduated from Dixie College with associate degree, 1974; graduated from BYU with bachelor's degree in family science, 1981.
    Community service: PTA president and officer; local contest director with America's Junior Miss Scholarship program; officer and member in various music teacher associations.
    Church Service: First counselor in Young Women general presidency (2002-2007); former member of Young Women general board, Primary president, teacher and counselor, Scout leader, Young Women adviser, counselor and president, camp director, Relief Society teacher, counselor in stake Relief Society presidency; served with husband in Missionary Training Center branch.

  • TO: NOT a SAHM...
    Aug. 13, 2008 4:09 p.m.

    QUOTE
    "Beck said "Mothers Who Know Are Nurturers" and "Another word for nurturing is homemaking." The obvious message is that women who are gainfully employed outside the home, and especially those who WANT to be a "career woman" DON'T KNOW and are sinners! That is absolutely NOT TRUE!" UNQUOTE

    To truly understand the message, you have to first believe that God loves us. I believe that the leaders do as well for that is the foundation of their calling. You can then understand Sister Beck's intent. By not making excuses and simply doing the best you can in the situation you find yourself in is all that God asks. It really is that simple. It's not easy, but worth it in the end.

    If you choose not to do them, that is your choice. However, you might not find what your looking for. True and meaningful happiness is in doing what is right. The best way to know these things is to listen and follow the directions given to us by our church leaders, that is if you believe they are called of God. I believe they are.

    Experiment on her words. You might be surprised:).

  • Talk didn't solve one problem
    Aug. 13, 2008 3:56 p.m.

    I remember as a boy, playing baseball with my friends, mom would call us in with a soft, sweet voice, our sandwiches were made, with only 1/2 flass of juice, If you finished the juice, water was your preferred beverage for the rest of the meal. Dad was there, I'd jump on his lap, and beg him to go play catch with us and our dog Spike. Good days.

    It was fun. that was the way we lived, or at leas the way I imaginied it. I had a staty at home mom, We'd get home and try to sneak out, but the house was alarmed. After a paddle, we'd get to work on our chores that often took us until 2-3 in the morning, Mom and Dad, passed out on the bed half naked, my biggest brother would put us to bed. He often got the belt because our jobs peren't perect.

    My Big Brother

    Brad killed himself about 5 years ago, same day Mary, my youngest sister moved out with her boyfriend, They were pregnant.

    My Mothere Knew she needed babies to make her life easier.

    She was one of those "Mother's who Know".

    Thanks Sis Beck.

    UKNEW2.

  • Lisa P.
    Aug. 13, 2008 3:25 p.m.

    My mother worked fulltime outside the home, pursued a college education and a professional career, and raised seven children, ALL of whom graduated from seminary, served honorable missions, married in the temple, and remain faithful to this day.

    She also supported the Equal Rights Amendment in its day, supports women's right to have an abortion, and supports the right of gay people to be married. She and her second husband (my father died of cancer) are serving their third mission for the Church right now.

    She is one of the most remarkable women I have ever met. She is highly educated, retired from a successful career, raised 7 children very well, taught early morning seminary while working full time and raising us, completed her education AFTER having started her family and while working fulltime, and served in every Ward and Stake calling imaginable for women (Stake RS President, Stake YW President, and others). She has emailed me that she thinks Sister Beck's talk was "an abomination". I agree completely.

    Each woman must find what her own heart tells her regarding having children, education, career, and personal matters. Beck has no right to condemn others for being different than her.

  • mother7
    Aug. 13, 2008 3:18 p.m.

    So much clatter and chatter over the words of one person. These questions and concerns are very important, indeed. The Being to address and listen to regarding deeply important issues of how to live our best lives, using ALL of our God given capacities, is God. God loves all and is available to all. We do not need a another human being to represent our Father and His divine guidance for each one of us. Ask, trust and learn to commune with God. Follow God's voice. Learn to trust that beautiful inner voice and knowing. The "how" has been written in your hearts. This is one of the greatest responsibilities and gifts we have been given. Though I am human, I will give some advice. NEVER give over your own Divinely graced mind, heart and will to anyone who claims to speak to you on behalf of God.

  • luvsisbeck!
    Aug. 13, 2008 3:17 p.m.

    Many have said her talk only applies to mothers but I disagree as many aspects can apply to all women.

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 13, 2008 3:18 p.m.

    Podium said: 'I find it interesting that they are so angry with Sister Beck. Why not the LDS church in general? She is just the messenger.'

    Exactly.

  • luvsisbeck!
    Aug. 13, 2008 3:05 p.m.

    Clarify said: "Young men who were blessing and passing should be encouraged to wear a white shirt, but it was not required and they should not be denied the opportunity to participate if they had on another colored shirt. When Sis. Beck said white shirt I don't think she meant it literally, just clean and pressed."

    A while back a GA talked about this. The color white represents purity - same reason we wear white in the temple & our chapels should be treated with the same respect as are our temples. I think Sis. Beck meant white literally for the reasons I stated. The Lord tests our commitment & obedience even in the smallest of things such as men & boys wearing white shirts to church. Our level of commitment to the Lord or lack of it comes through in the way we respond to even the small things the He asks of us.

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 13, 2008 2:39 p.m.

    A Mormon stuck in 2008 said: **The church is there to provide "advice", and doctine so that we can become an eternal family.**

    It's not just advice but counsel from the Lord to our Leaders which the Lord expects us to heed/follow. Of course we have our agency to do so or not & if we choose not we'll answer to the Lord for that choice.

    **Being an active Mormon, I am always left thinking, Mormons are weird.

    Peculiar, maybe, but definately weird...**

    We get enough flak from the world because they feel our standards & way of life are weird, too strict, etc. Who cares what the world thinks anyway...as a member, seems you'd be more concerned what the Lord thinks about you/the things you do here regardless of if the world thinks you're weird, peculiar, etc.

  • luvsisbeck!
    Aug. 13, 2008 2:29 p.m.

    A Mormon Stuck in 2008 said: ***As much as I respect the advice of the prophets of old, they lived in the context of their times, and we live in ours.***

    Their words apply to us today just as much as they did to others in their day. No different than saying that Christ's words applied to us then & they apply to us now as they were his mouthpiece...then & now.

  • NOT a SAHM
    Aug. 13, 2008 2:23 p.m.

    The problem with these comments and with Sister Beck's talk is that so many of them demean the "career" women.

    Sister Beck said "Mothers who know bear Children". That is not true. Many women "Know" but do NOT bear children, and they are not sinners! Beck implies that women should at least DESIRE to bear children. That is also not true. Many wonderful women have no desire to bear children, and that does not make them sinners nor detract from their "knowing"!

    Beck said "Mothers Who Know Are Nurturers" and "Another word for nurturing is homemaking." The obvious message is that women who are gainfully employed outside the home, and especially those who WANT to be a "career woman" DON'T KNOW and are sinners! That is absolutely NOT TRUE!

    The entire tone of Beck's talk was essentially this: "Women who KNOW are like me! Women who are NOT like me are ignorant (don't know) and sinful!"

    We take offense because it was OFFENSIVE. We are bothered by it because (as shown by these comments) it is an all-too-common attitude of self-righteous arrogance in the Church. SAHMs have a strong animosity toward us and we are hurt by it!

  • Great talk
    Aug. 13, 2008 2:20 p.m.

    Very nice Sister, well put, it is always faith promoting to see the decaying morals and righteousness of even those in the church, surely a sign of more things to come. It is interesting that this coincides with all of the "Affirmation" stuff. I love my mom and know the way she did it was the BEST way. May sound arrogant but it is merely a tribute to my mother who really did do her best and worried more about me than her.

    The people writing this crap are worried more about themselves than their children and their earthly obligations/suggestions. That selfishness is evident in our kids today. They are raised seeking the career and the almighty dollar, MAY WE REAP THE WHIRLWIND OF THAT GREAT REWARD-

    Great Talk!!! Points well taken. We would be wise to listen or just ignore it and hope our kids pick it up on their own:)

  • nativeways
    Aug. 13, 2008 1:50 p.m.

    Yea, I used to be part of that Mormon bubble which tends to look at everything as black and white, right or wrong. I never saw it that way, blame my indigenous self. I believe in families, communities, spiritualism, good morals and all people have a right to good, safe life but this planet doesn't always guarantee that. It really doesn't matter what one person's opinion is like Sister Beck's opinion is because you as a Mormon member are living your religion the best way you know how already, right? Why does matter, your not a robot? I have never seen the perfect Mormon human being yet, even lived in Utah many years. It really is a tough organized religion to live if you are a woman who thinks outside the box all the time.

  • magnus
    Aug. 13, 2008 1:19 p.m.

    there are all too many women in the church who simply cannot feel fulfilled by being a stay at home mom alone.

    Blame it on whoever or whatever you want but facts are facts, and staying at home with children makes some women miserable. Even though they love and cherish their children and the gospel the thought of spending years as a full-time houswife fills them with despair.

    The sad thing is that often women in the church who feel this way are looked upon as broken or "unrighteous".

    I see what Sister Beck was trying to say but to me it felt a little heavy handed.

    My wife battles with three young boys, one of whom is disabled, every day. She really tried to accept Sister Becks message, she read it and listned to it several times and every time she felt the same, discouraged and angry.

    The last thing she needs to hear form her spritual leader is that "Women who know" are doing things that she tries and fails at daily.

  • luvsisbeck!
    Aug. 13, 2008 12:27 p.m.

    ***Because, face it, your degrees and colleagues won't come visit you when you're 90 and can't get around anymore. Your kids will, if you gave them what they needed.***

    Wow, so true....great comment!

  • Don't Be Naive
    Aug. 13, 2008 12:21 p.m.

    To Women "Leaders" - what a myopic and naive comment and perspective, to suggest Julie Beck . Julie Beck is one of the most well-traveled women in the world, and none of it for herself. She's been in the mud hut, the grass shack, the cardboard, tin, or concrete dwelling in the slum all over the world. To suggest that she is "out of touch" is patently rediculous. She's been there, she listens, and has connected with just about every culture you can name. When she, and other women leaders speak, they've been there and experienced others' pain and successes.

  • luvsisbeck!
    Aug. 13, 2008 12:20 p.m.

    To Larry in Manti - thanks for that awesome post!!

  • Simon Says
    Aug. 13, 2008 12:01 p.m.

    Growing up my mom and dad made the decision that mom would stay at home and take care of us kids. I remember after school on many days that the neighborhood kids would line up for snacks and a drink at our kitchen door. It was a great blessing to me and my siblings to have a mom in the home. My dad was a teacher, and with mom at home we didn't have much. I had a close friend who was very wealthy. He would always want to come to my house. I couldn't understand this as he had so many cool things to play with. I asked him one day why he never wanted us to play at his home after school and he told me that he liked that my mom was at home.

    As an adult and a father of 4, my wife has needed to work from time to time outside of the home. The past 4 years, she has stayed at home with the kids. I am truly blessed to have a wonderfully talented, degreed wife, who works harder at home than I could ever at work. Being a SAHM is a thankless job.

  • Revelation
    Aug. 13, 2008 12:01 p.m.

    We can recieve personal revelation from the Lord.

    Sis Beck spoke for the church as a whole, but we as individuals have to act on our own personal revelations, and we will all be fine.

  • Be ye therefore perfect...
    Aug. 13, 2008 12:02 p.m.

    Christ has taught that we need to be perfect. Why aren't we all in our "closets crying"? This is a tall order, is it not? What Sister Beck so eloquently spoke of in her talk said the same thing. We should strive for perfection step by step, moment by moment. No doubt we will stumble and fall along the way.

    I loved this talk! I have 5 sisters and a mother who are not perfect, but are doing the best they can. They are not beating themselves up if they fail now and again, but they are doing the things we are all taught to do, that is read the scriptures, pray, teach your children righteousness, etc. They are all very happy and well grounded with a firm foundation.

    The process of perfection won't happen in this lifetime for most of us. We all need to do the best we can. The plan outlined by Sister Beck is the way we are to find the most joy in this life. I hope those who are offended or feel over burdened will eventually see this and stop beating themselves up about it.

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 13, 2008 10:58 a.m.

    Questions:
    Are you going to form your own church?
    Will you allow men to attend?
    Will you have women apostles?
    Will you build your own temples?
    Will you design your own Kingdom of Glory in the eternities, one without men?

    I dont know if the purpose of my questions is obvious or not, so let me be clear. As a husband, father, grandfather and great grandfather, I want to express my sorrow and disappointment for your apparent dissatisfaction, but having seen the hand of God in the lives of the women in our family and heard the powerful testimonies of hundreds of those you would consider oppressed, I feel to warn you that your course is a dangerous one that is leading you away from the light and truth, the eternal realities and what might be called the divine facts of life. You are in danger of forfeiting the opportunity to partake of a fullness of joy prepared from the foundation of the world for those who are humble and committed followers of the Lord (2 Nephi 9:18). I cannot imagine any sister who is sensitive to the spirit following such a course.

  • Lori
    Aug. 13, 2008 10:32 a.m.

    Sister Beck's talk wasn't meant to "enslave" women and lessen a woman's role in the world today, rather it was to strengthen and build those women who have "chosen" to be mothers. We live in a world where many women, LDS and non-LDS alike, look at their role as a mother as secondary, as confining, and nongratifying. Sister Beck's talk was designed to let women know that when you take on the responsibility of having children there is more to it than just giving birth, it is taking that role very seriously to nurture, teach, and provide for their wellbeing. I know too many "mothers" today that have chosen to have children, but then expect for the daycare provider, the school teacher, the neighbor, the friends, the television, the computer, etc. do the job of raising, entertaing, and counseling those children while the mother tries to find her gratification by working, going to the gym, going to the salon or day spa, etc. It is all about balance...having those extra activities that bring that kind of happiness but also taking care of those that we have brought into the world and have stewardship over.

  • What's the big deal
    Aug. 13, 2008 10:26 a.m.

    Just another point that the LDS people are frauds and liars to themselves. The question is, "WHat do you want" DO you want the church to conform to your personal needs? What are you looking for? I live in a great ward in San Clemente, CA and many of the women I associate with had no beefs with Sister Beck's talk. YOu need to figure out your testimony before you go siging some wannabee petition. Imagine if our husbands came home after priesthood and went ahead to start debating the doctrine. Then everytime I hear someone bare their lifeamony on fast sunday I am just going to walk out.

  • chill out !!!
    Aug. 13, 2008 9:59 a.m.

    Holy cow, women need to chill out. Sis Beck is called by the Lord to speak to the women of the church. I wonder how many of those who were offended by Sis Beck's talk would also be offended if the Lord him self were giving the address? Probably the same number! The Church understands the need for many women to work in the world today and doesn't condemn them. Economic conditions today force many mothers into the work force and the vast majority of those women would rather be at home than punching the time clock. For those women who feel that children are a burden and would rather be at Gold's Gym primping their bodies I am sorry for you and your kids.

  • JB
    Aug. 13, 2008 9:41 a.m.

    Sister Beck's talk was spot on and was exactly what needed to be said. The truth of it was more than evident as she spoke. IMO, anybody taking offense is either 1) misinterpreting what was ACTUALLY said, or 2) looking for an excuse to push a feminist movement in the LDS church.

    Obviously there are lots of understandable exceptions to the standard roles of men & women. Most reasonable members get that. That's not the issue she was addressing. I am condifent that every church leader in SLC understands these exceptions.

    The most important thing is that we are trying to do the best we can - keeping in line with the principles of the gospel - based on the situation we are in.

    I wish she would get up in General Conference in October and give the same talk, verbatim.

  • Denise
    Aug. 13, 2008 9:41 a.m.

    Statements such as "Faithful daughters of god desire children" (quote from the talk) are the main reason I initially left the church. I don't want children. I have never wanted children and would be miserably unhappy in the "ideal" life that Sister Beck portrays. There are many other women out there like me, and some give into what they think god wants for them and suffer for it. Their children likely suffer as well.
    Pressuring every woman into one limited role is unhealthy for women, as well as men and children.

  • its time
    Aug. 13, 2008 9:38 a.m.

    Wheat and Tares

  • Warren Pugh
    Aug. 13, 2008 9:26 a.m.

    Anyone who is or has been LDS or not understands how delicate this subject is. I recall a letter received from an unwed Japanese convert who grieved because her understanding was that the afterlife for her did not provide full celestial rewards. Neither was she to be consoled by any rhetoric suggesting that her understanding was misguided.

    However, this has been going on for tooooo many years, and the bretheren must put an end to the grief and srrife. It is not healthy for the church
    nor is it Christlike.

  • Camille P.
    Aug. 13, 2008 8:41 a.m.

    I remember listening to Sis. Beck's talk. And I do agree with her. And as a former lds church leader commented earlier, I will not disagree until another in authority stands up to correct her. And also as I have seen and to those I have talked to, this seems to be a "Utah Thing". I stay home with my children and I raise and nurture them. My husband works. It's our personal choice. We just don;t want a day care raising our kids. I did work outside the home for a couple of yrs. but our home didn't run smoothly. We have discovered that for us - it's better for me to be at home.

  • lds0024
    Aug. 13, 2008 8:28 a.m.

    to awesomeron,

    The LDS Church's doctrines are the ones that are "ever-changing".

    In the early 1900's, women in the Church were required to be homemakers. Even if their husband was killed or incapacitated, they were not to go out and work, but instead stay at home and take care of the children and be provided for out of the Church storehouse.

    Read D&C 83. Why isn't the Church following its own revelations?

    During the 70's and 80's, Church leaders changed, and widows or women whose husbands could not provide were "allowed" to work outside the home. But President Benson taught against women working outside the home for any other reasons.

    Today, women work outside the home with their heads held high. They are no longer marginalized and ostracized... until Sister Beck's retrograde talk! Now the comment section here is evidence of a subtle hostility and condemnation of women who work and have careers. All the self-righteous SAHMs have always had this hidden hostility against "career women". Sister Beck's talk just put it in grand relief for everyone to see!

  • Reality
    Aug. 13, 2008 8:02 a.m.

    I think if every woman on this board would just spend more time in the kitchen and less time getting "all upset" about this talk, everyone would be better off.

  • awesomeron
    Aug. 13, 2008 3:55 a.m.

    The choice between the Doctrines of The Church and the ever changing Doctrines of what Man Wants which for Women depends at lot on where they where born and what faith group they where born into. I ranges from almost total lack of social filters and standards to complete subjugation with burkas and long dresses and in one or two places the women have to have permission to work and the single ones have to have male guardians. And all steps in between. The Church just asks for a few standards, basic morals, that make for a better life for all concerned. The LDS are not great embracers of the wounded but I have seen great, great strides made in the last 20 years. LDS Social Services can handle just about anything. From adopting Kids to Addiction Programs. So the choice between following man or following God is simple, "as for me and my house we will serve the lord." My family is somewhat different and there has been some resistance, but also great love expressed. Choice to hang with them that choice you. Your friends will be your friends regardless. God loves you always.

  • concerned
    Aug. 13, 2008 1:54 a.m.

    These comments are disturbing to me. The talk I heard doesn't seem to fit with some of the comments I've been reading. I didn't feel she was asking us as women to do or be anything less than the best we can be. There is no need to compare ourselves everyone has different circumstances. But whatever our circumstance whether married with children, married but childless, or single with children, or a single woman , the responsibility to be a mother is a role we all should be honored to hold. There are so many children in our world in need of a loving caring mother to guide them through the mazes of growing up. I have been a foster parent and have seen the turmoil that these children live with because they didn't have someone to be a mother to them. That the attachment and trust cycle has been broken and these children struggle with every relationship after that if there isn't some intervention to reverse the damage.So instead of worrying about being offended or not don't you think we should be thinking of the children and forget ourselves in doing so just as Christ would.?

  • luvsisbeck!
    Aug. 13, 2008 1:43 a.m.

    ***Anonymous | 8:34 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008
    Sister Becks Talk was a landmark talk. One of the best talks ever given to women. It was a companion talk to Elder Oaks talk of that same conference, Good, Better, Best. He also mentioned some points about todays families that some might have taken to be hard. Those of you who are a part of this website and are participating in criticizing your leaders...do you realize what you are doing? You are not a law unto yourselves. Say what you want, do what you want, but the Lord is in charge and His leaders will say and must say what He commands. If you have a problem don't point your finger at His servants, look in the mirror.
    Sister Beck is the leader for these times. EVerything she said was right on the mark.***

    Oh, so true! I so appreciate your comments & many others here who truly understand & 'know' what Sis. Beck's words meant & that her words were nothing short of inspired!

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 13, 2008 1:30 a.m.

    ***Anonymous | 7:21 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008
    As an educated, intellectual, stay-at-home AND work-from-home mother, I was completely inspired by Sister Beck's talk. For me it was a clarion call to stand a little taller, and to reflect on the enormous importance of nurturing and teaching my children in love and righteousness. My children cover the spectrum of mental ability and each presents unique challenges, but regardless, each child needs to be spiritually grounded. I find I am able to meet their spiritual needs when I am spiritually fed myself; likewise I can meet their intellectual needs when my mind is intellectually stimulated. There is nothing wrong with taking time to nuture myself as an individual, and I think much of the controversy comes down to the erroneous assumption that in motherhood we must all run faster than we have the strength, or until we have no more strength. "Women who know" are swift to tap into that higher power, that unfailing source of strength, and find that the seemingly impossible tasks of motherhood are not so impossible after all.***

    Ahh, beautifully stated!

  • I agree
    Aug. 13, 2008 1:14 a.m.

    that it seems that people are looking for ways to be offended here--on both sides.

    I listened to Sis. Beck's talk and didn't think that it was particularly controversial or offensive. And I went to the "What Women Know" website and didn't see anything there other than good common sense. I don't think anyone risks their church membership by signing their name.

    I really think both sides are saying the same thing. For some reason, they seem obsessed with criticizing the way the other person says it. That's not Sis. Beck's fault. That's something going much, much deeper and has to do with another of the favorite pastimes of church members: converting our own personal approaches to life into the doctrines of salvation. I'm LDS and I believe that there are bedrock principles...but not everything I do qualifies.

  • mandy
    Aug. 13, 2008 12:42 a.m.

    to the priesthood men who think they shouldn't have to do women's work because they've worked all day-please reconsider. I'll bet most of you have some sort of support helping you do your job-secretaries, assistants, co-workers, employees, subcontractors etc. Why then am I expected to work far more hours than you and then be entitled only to the help a five year old can provide, just because I'm at home during the day unless I'm chauferring kids, or buying groceries or visiting the doctor or doing Church service. Of course, if your wife is home all day and spends all her time watching TV or pursuing hobbies, recreational shopping or socializing, then you shouldn't have to work hard and then come home and be responsible for running the house. Just give me a few minutes of help every day and I will be much happier. You're also setting a wonderful example to your children of what a real man does.

  • Marg Toscano
    Aug. 12, 2008 10:07 p.m.

    Don't you pray to Mary, or Ruth or Mother?

  • Janet
    Aug. 12, 2008 9:55 p.m.

    The way Camille was treated after the session was horrible, but nobody from the panel treated her horribly or asserted the ludicrious things she assumed we meant (SAHMs are bad, everyone needs a PHD). Most of us on the panel are SAHMs, even though we've got pesky letters after our names. Please, for the love of pete, stop assuming the DN article accurately represented the panel. It didn't. And CAmille A. didn't either--she was less courageous than flat-out rude, though admittedly not half as rude as the person who called her a slave.

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 12, 2008 7:49 p.m.

    I can't believe we're still going over this. People, live your life. Whatever you do to use your talents, help others and is enjoyable, DO IT. No one is stopping you or thinking bad of you. Cheeeee!

  • good, better, best
    Aug. 12, 2008 7:44 p.m.

    It's good to have a clean house. It's better to sacrifice vacuuming to render compassionate service. It's best to have a posterity who will rise up and call us blessed.

  • incorrect traditions
    Aug. 12, 2008 7:27 p.m.

    I think much of the guilt Mormon women feel is from their own mothers. My mother would tsk-tsk about a neighbors gray bra straps. She may have had the whitest laundry in town, but left a whole lot to be desired as a mom. As for me and my house, we'll use hot water, detergent, oxiclean and call it good. I have no desire to scrub my bra straps to prove my superiority to someone else. I know sisters who feel they have to protect their reputation as being the best seamstress or housekeeper, or cookie maker etc. Please do us all a favor and stop. Understand there are some things we should excel in such as keeping the commandments and honoring our covenants. Otherwise recognize when "good enough" will do. Vacuuming the entire house twice a day or refusing to buy Oreos or clothes from the mall will not get you into the celestial kingdom. It may however, grant you entrance to the loony bin. I love a clean house as much as the next mom, and it's quite often that way. It's just that sometimes other things take priority.

  • Tamara
    Aug. 12, 2008 7:06 p.m.

    As soon as they ask "are you a stay-at-home-mom" in the Temple Recommend interview, then and ONLY then will we know it is a "doctrine of salvation".

    Otherwise, it is just Sister Beck's opinion. There is nothing wrong with NOT wanting children. There is nothing wrong with NOT wanting to be a homemaker. There is nothing wrong with "knowing" but not agreeing with Sister Beck.

  • Linda
    Aug. 12, 2008 6:58 p.m.

    This just goes to show that you can be a mother and run the world too. Men seem to have a hard time with both.

  • CindyAcre
    Aug. 12, 2008 6:26 p.m.

    Sister Beck's talk was a reaffirmation of the importance of "mothering" in a family - all types of families. Motherhood is not a second class status thing - as feminists would like to paint it as. Women have so much opportunity in the world today - we are to get as much education as we can, and use that education and our very real God-given talents and gifts to help our families, neighborhoods, country, and each other. Whether you want to put a $dollar value on it or not, the experience of losing one's self in "going forth to serve" IS what is important, not the "box" or "podium" or whatever the experience is put in. We gotta look outside the box, sisters.

  • It's about the children
    Aug. 12, 2008 5:50 p.m.

    Thank you, Sis. Beck, for your faith, courage, and inspired instruction. If the men would do better at encouraging their wives to take seriously what you said, our children would be stronger. It's really more about the children's success, not our own.

  • Mrs.
    Aug. 12, 2008 5:19 p.m.

    I loved Sister Beck's talk! I think people are taking offense for no reason. I found her talk motivational and inspiring. For those of us who are mothers, it is nice to have some validation that what we are doing is right and good. I am going to continue trying to be the best homemaker I can be, no matter what our liberal church feminists say. Go Sister Beck!

  • Wyo Reader
    Aug. 12, 2008 4:30 p.m.

    Oh I love this page of comments! You are all spot on! Being from Wyoming I love the "Cowboy Up" comment! Very appropriate! Let's put this puppy to bed and live the gospel ladies! Thanks Sis Beck!

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 12, 2008 3:58 p.m.

    **Lucy | 5:25 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008
    If men were to get as upset by the Brethren beating on them about pornography, the women of the church would be up in arms. If you're upset by Sis. Beck's talk, maybe it's time to ask yourself why. Ladies, cowboy up!**

    LOL!! And so true!

  • luvsisbeck!
    Aug. 12, 2008 3:51 p.m.

    **RE: Just Wondering

    ...but the doctrine is not on a menu. We can't just pick the parts we like and leave the rest, as you can with other religions. If it's true, and there's a living prophet, then he speaks for God and there's really no room for quibbling.

    And I haven't heard the General Authorities taking back anything that was said by Sis. Beck, so I take that as being affirmed and condoned by our prophet.

    There just isn't any room for argument in a voluntary membership organization that claims leadership directly from God. Either it's true and you follow it, or it's not and you don't.**

    Amen, what else is there to say??

  • Sustaining hands...
    Aug. 12, 2008 3:48 p.m.

    How thankful my wife and I are for the inspired words of Sister Beck's talk. The furor behind Sunstone's continuing attempt to cast dispersions upon the Church this time around caused my wife and I to go back and read the talk together. Such loving encouragement! All the negative talk here and on the Sunstoned panel make me question whether they listened or read the same talk I did. Where is the error in striving to be the Mother that makes such an impact on her children that their faith is strong enough for them to withstand all the evils and temptations in this day?

    Are we perfect? No, but we're striving to go in that direction. We're both working parents who come home together and strive to teach and raise our kids together as best we can. We pray that our daughters and our son learn early to always strive to be better; strive to be good; strive to do good toward others; above all strive to be as Jesus.

  • Women RULE!
    Aug. 12, 2008 3:48 p.m.

    Queen Elizabeth ruled England and she was a women. She did a better job at it than her dad, Henry IIIV, the looser king.

  • luvsisbeck!
    Aug. 12, 2008 3:42 p.m.

    jrccmsmom | 4:44 p.m. Aug. 8, 2008

    **People, people, people... Did you listen to the same talk that I did? Nowhere did it say that we were just supposed to become the best homemakers in the world. There were so many great and wonderful things in that talk - she talked about standing strong and immovable in faith. She asked all LDS women to have a current temple recommend, pray every day, follow the Holy Ghost, study the scriptures. She talked of standing strong and immovable in family and DEFENDING the family. She talked of standing strong and immovable in relief which means to lighten up and lift others. Again, I say, people, people, people, were you even listening to the same talk I heard and have reread several times?**

    Thanks, that was beautifully said!

  • Build a bridge
    Aug. 12, 2008 3:40 p.m.

    And get over it!!
    Bit cold in Auckland today!!

  • Hate is not a family value.
    Aug. 12, 2008 3:33 p.m.

    I grew up in a single parent family. My mother worked part-time while trying to raise four children. Many fellow Sisters in the ward looked down on her for being single. (My father died at a young age.) The church leaders placed so much guilt and blame on her for not allowing a man to join her so she could stay at home as they had intended. Even us kids were treated as second class members because we did not have the Ideal Family Dynamic. We were outcasts partially fueled by the local members but greatly encouraged by the Bishop and Stake President. I wish more women/mothers would voice their concern over the persecution that transpires within the the church. I am so thankful that I no longer feel the oppression and judgement of a flawed patriarchy.

  • Phoenix
    Aug. 12, 2008 3:29 p.m.

    I like symposia, they are a great place to learn new things and get fresh perspectives, but I never go to the Sunstone Symposium because I have never seen a report on their meetings that included the descriptives "fair" or "balanced discussion" or "sought to present all sides." I understand doubt and disagreement, I have had many in my 40 years of LDS Church membership, but I have never had a problem finding answers, and no Church leader has ever resorted to polemics, insults or degrading the experience of others in answering my questions. It appears to me that all Sunstone has is the disgruntled, the disaffected and those who think they can change what some of us accept as Divine doctrine by pushing their view on the rest of us until we are no longer willing to stand firm. Ain't gonna happen, bubba.

  • Apostacy
    Aug. 12, 2008 3:20 p.m.

    As most of us either know, heard or experienced, Satan is very clever in his deceptions. He'll mix a little truth with some lies. He'll supress truth but at the same time blend it with democracy. He'll espouse agency, freedom and self-expression but at the same time affiliate them with sin. He's doing the same thing in connection with movements like "What Women Know" and "Sunstone". Combining some truth with a lot of error....and maybe....as we've seen in this forum, activly deceiving some of the very elect.

  • STOP
    Aug. 12, 2008 3:14 p.m.

    This is extremely ridiculous. Whats the point?

  • Don't limit yourselves
    Aug. 12, 2008 3:01 p.m.

    I think the Sunstone Symposium is causing the controversy, not the address as is the claim. The address has inspired much good in women. Has any good come from these symposiums? The symposium argues that by praising motherhood, we are somehow saying that women who aren't mothers, are not great women. How do you read that into it?

    The message is that all women can be great & have potential to be great mothers; if anything, men are excluded.

    The LDS church in no way diminishes womanhood by professing the sacred divinity of mothers. How does success in the home take away from any accomplishments outside of the home? It doesn't! Defining any noble endeavors of motherhood does not diminish from what a woman can do, but rather adds to it? I am disgusted with the "What Women Know" movement, because you are the ones limiting what you can know and do. Shame on you for discrediting yourselves.

    My mother has as many accomplishments outside the home as she does in the home, but she will tell you her greatest accomplishment is raising righteous children who contribute to society (And even more importantly raise valiant families of their own).

  • Mary Admires Sis. Beck
    Aug. 12, 2008 2:53 p.m.

    I am a working, accomplished woman in the LDS church, I am a RS President for nearly 4 years, I work full time and I have 5 children and I've even served in the legislature. For those 500 women who claim to have risked it all, locked themselves in their bathrooms sobbing, etc... Get a life and get over your bad self! Too many people don't need much of an excuse to rebell, back bite and tear down their leaders (it's called murmuring, an ancient concept and nothing new). It is a choice to be happy and a choice to be a faithful member of this church and I'm happy to make them mine.

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 12, 2008 2:39 p.m.

    Having just read the talk and read the what women know web page. It is clear to me who knows what. And it is clear that there is a reason that only hundreds of people have joined with this group compared to millions. Sister Becks talk is in perfect unison with past talks and teachings, while even a quick review of the what women know site will expose great uneasiness. what women know distorts the meaning of Sister Becks talk, the churchs stand on family and even fundamental teachings in the Book of Mormon. Women who know will have nothing to do with what women know.

  • Andy N
    Aug. 12, 2008 2:07 p.m.

    Wow, the "What Women Know" movement has really helped to mobilize the Sisters of this Church. What I am seeing is a large number of Sisters going back, rereading the talk, and recognizing it as a powerful message of courage and purpose.

    You just can't buy advertising like that.

    Thank you "What Women Know," you've done more to strengthen the resolve of these Sisters and at the same time provided them with a list of individuals they should be mindful of.

    Beware of wolves in sheep's clothing.

  • Allison Murray
    Aug. 12, 2008 2:01 p.m.

    Maybe we should take the advice given in the scriptures, if you lack wisdom, ask of God. We are all striving to become like our Heavenly FATHER and Heavenly MOTHER. If we listen to our church leaders with the spirit, we will understand how each word applies to us personally rather than to take offense. Use the words of our spiritual leaders to help us become better people rather than rip each other down. Instead of making a website about how horrible the talk is, make a website that helps give ideas and support on how to be better mothers and better people.

  • Beck is right
    Aug. 12, 2008 1:53 p.m.

    Whats wrong with a different opinion other than feminism? Maybe those mothering values really make a female feel like a woman! As far as I can tell, feminism is an effort to make women feel like men. It certainly makes a calculated effort to degrade men.

  • Great talk
    Aug. 12, 2008 1:47 p.m.

    Sis. Beck should give another talk like that. It was a defining talk that brought into focus values that have been lost for decades.

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 12, 2008 1:42 p.m.

    I agree with those who think Sister Beck's talk was inappropriate at times. I was even inclined to support the "What Women Know" movement. However, the way Camille Aagard was treated was horrible. Because of it, the movement has lost a lot of respect in my eyes.

  • sarah
    Aug. 12, 2008 1:26 p.m.

    I think that motherhood and helping others raise children into wonderful people and leaders is one of the most important roles to have and it isn't looked down upon.In the end i think eternal perspective is more important to god than a CEO position.

  • Wyo Reader
    Aug. 12, 2008 1:22 p.m.

    I think the only ones who are offended by this talk live in Utah! Everyone I've talked to from Indiana to Wyoming and several places in between are completely unaware of this controversy. It's just another Utah Mormon thing that the rest of the sisters in the church just don't get. I was a life long Utah Mormon until 3 1/2 years ago when my eyes were opened when I moved to Wyoming. Pull it together Utah Sisters and realize the church nor the Relief Society revolve around you. I am a Relief Society President and spoke of this controversy on Sunday and they all looked at me like I was from another planet! The sisters in my ward took this talk to heart. I loved the talk and it gave me reasons to look at my own life and see if there is room for improvement and guess what! There is! I'm not perfect and if I'm not willing to change and be better in many aspects of my life in being a better person, wife, mother, daughter & sister than there is a problem. "Doesn't Matter" I could not agree with you more!

  • Re: unmet expectations
    Aug. 12, 2008 12:39 p.m.

    How true that we compare ourselves at our worst with others at their best. I remember watching families file into church dressed in their Sunday best and thinking what kind of problems could they possibly have? Silly me, they probably had the same crazy Sunday morning I did, trying to find church shoes that hadn't seen the light of day since last Sunday, dawdling preschoolers or trying to get a teen up and going. They have insurance hassles, work stresses and kid craziness too. It just isn't obvious at Church. We need to remember that they probably don't look so great all the time. If anyone tries to convince you they are so organized and righteous they handle it all, they're not showing humility. I really am well organized-most of the time. I'm punctual-most of the time. I'm not a gourmet cook-most of the time. My kids have clean clothes-most of the time. I don't quilt-ever. I have low energy-most of the time. I sew my kids clothes-never. My home is clean-usually, immactulate-rarely. Food storage yes, home bottled-no. The only perfection I can claim is never failing to write a weekly letter to sons on missions.

  • Doesn't matter
    Aug. 12, 2008 12:39 p.m.

    I think when there is any kind of instruction given by the church or any organization, the only people who take offense are the ones who feel guilty. Church leaders have always encouraged women to get an education and have skills that can provide for their family if necessary. No one said motherhood was easy or that we should enjoy every minute of it, but it is the single most important job of all mankind because we are raising the next generation. What happened to the Nephites in the Book of Mormon? Their fathers taught them the gospel and slowly down the line people fell away and had their own opinion about things instead of taking counsel from their great leaders. Eventually they were all destroyed. Aren't you people just a little bit nervous about going against the counsel given by our church leaders? I would be. One more thing, there was a talk given awhile ago about being offended. If you're offended, that's your problem. Suck it up, and move on with life.

  • Former Church Leader Opines
    Aug. 12, 2008 12:35 p.m.

    As a former LDS church leader, I want to say that in my opinion, what Sister Beck taught is correct church doctrine. If the leading brethren ever give subsequent talks to clarify what she taught, I'll follow that counsel. But for now, to avoid the fringes of the road to apostacy, I would counsel every women and man out their with a conflictive position to re-think their position, repent and hold to the iron rod of correct doctrine.

  • Will Pearson
    Aug. 12, 2008 12:27 p.m.

    I support Sister Beck. Thank God I had a "Mormon Mother" in spite of a father indifferent to religion and self improvement either in himself or his (many) children. She saw to it that all eight of us gained our high school diplomas and learned about college opportunities. My "Mormon Mother" taught us virtue, self-respect and respect for women and girls as well as shepherding us gently through homework and adolescent problems. Sunday after Sunday she begged rides or walked with us three miles to Church while dad stayed home and "read the funnies." We learned both Mother Goose rhymes and Bible stories at her knees while she rocked babies, sewed on the old Singer, or baked bread. The only thing she ever complained about were nose-in-the-air women who were too busy or self-centered to get involved with children. Thank God for my "Mormon mother."

  • Kicking against the pricks
    Aug. 12, 2008 12:15 p.m.

    I have heard on several occasions how offended some people were at President Beck's address. Each time I've gone back to her talk and read it again, thinking, "Did I miss something?". I was there when she spoke. I heard her words. She spoke truth. The naysayers referred to in this article are confused. I don't think they have read the talk. If they have, they didn't understand it. It was not offensive, not limiting, not condescending, and not controlling. It was good leadership. It was not demeaning of women in society. It was addressed to mothers. Even behavior specialists couldn't argue with what she said because all that she said would be in the best interest of children and society. Those who were offended are acting selfishly. They are kicking against the pricks of the spirit of truth.

  • Stay at home mom :)
    Aug. 12, 2008 12:15 p.m.

    As a college graduate and stay at home Mom of five, I heard the talk and it INSPIRED me to be BETTER, I was not at all offended!! Being a stay at home Mom is hard, but worth it!! :)

  • cpo
    Aug. 12, 2008 12:17 p.m.

    If God calls a Relief Society President through inpsiration and by devine means, I'll sustain. No need to be offended by her words

  • women have rights to happiness
    Aug. 12, 2008 12:11 p.m.

    I can't believe it is even the church's business whether a woman has children, stays at home, has a career, etc. Who exactly do you think you are? I'm sure the moderator will squash this post, but PLEASE. Women are capable of the same things men are, and have the same right to asperations.

    I'm a guy, and I'm not LDS. But if a person (man or woman) loves God and leads a true life, then why do any of you care whether a woman has children or not? Telling women to have a lot of children and stay home to raise them is a little too FLDS for me....

    what if she wants to be a pilot or scientist? They have a right to happiness just like everyone else. Trying to coerce them into having babies is just wrong. (I know "coerce" is a strong word but religious pressures can be very strong...)

  • RE: SAHM
    Aug. 12, 2008 12:10 p.m.

    Actually, that happens to be my last name (German). Please stop slandering it with your rediculous acronyms. Bottom line, people should be able to chose... it's bad if they are forced to stay at home and bad if they chose to stay at home and people make fun of and criticize them. Lay off eachother children!

  • Hard Working Mom of 5
    Aug. 12, 2008 11:58 a.m.

    You know, it's funny. When I first heard that talk, I felt like it affirmed all of the things I was trying to do as a mother and reminded me of how important they all were, even though some (laundry, anyone?) are real drudgery. I didn't feel at all guilty for working outside of the home. I didn't have any idea anyone felt that way until my visiting teacher came to see me and mentioned the controversy.

    I have a job because my husband is in a line of work (computer science) where he is occasionally either changing jobs or getting laid off. I like the feeling of knowing that our family is protected with constant insurance.

    I'm trying my hardest to be the best mother I can be. I've arranged my schedule so that I'm usually home when my kids are home (all of them are in school). I'm not the perfect housekeeper, but my kids all know how to clean a kitchen, do their own laundry, vacuum and dust, clean a bathroom, and clean up after themselves.

    Please don't be so hard on yourselves, mothers! Nobody is perfect. Heavenly Father loves all of us for just trying.

  • RE: Don't tell
    Aug. 12, 2008 10:51 a.m.

    Dear Don't tell: There is more to you than meets the written word; "they cannot share their unhappiness with their limited say in their church and marriages"

    There is a veiled predjudice in your comments towards the church and the women of the church. You have a hypothesis which is condescending at a minumum. It's obvious that you only pay attention to the information that supports your hypothesis.

    There is no lack of strong, articulate women in our church...

  • Sally
    Aug. 12, 2008 10:25 a.m.

    Give it a break! Don't you fathers on here have jobs, and need to work, to support your wives and children? BLAH BLAH BLAH!

  • Great Talk
    Aug. 12, 2008 9:58 a.m.

    I appreciated Julie Beck's talk--even though I am a working professional LDS woman with a JD who has not had the opportunity to be a mother--yet.

    Someday we will all stand before God to account for our lives: to show we've done the best with the hand we were dealt. At-home moms deserve all the respect & kudos they receive. As Oprah says, It's the hardest job on earth and the most important. It's the world that measures success by degrees.

  • Don't tell
    Aug. 12, 2008 9:59 a.m.

    The number and force of regrets that my wife and I hear from married LDS female friends and acquaintances is just sad. They cannot share their unhappiness with their limited say in their church and marriages. I really feel for them.

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 12, 2008 9:44 a.m.

    While living in Oregon my wife was applying for a job she was not qualified for. She would be in charge of a group in the judicial department at the court house.

    When a group of professionals, many of which where woman, asked her about her credentials. She simply replied, Im just a mother.

    The main interviewer, the chief judge, replied quite frankly, that is the most important job you will ever have.

    I find it funny that a liberal judge, quite unfamiliar with life in Utah, surrounded by carrier women, would recognize and emphasize such an important truth.

    He then said, If more women were like you, there would be less people in front of me.

    He pushed for her hire and as her boss made sure she placed her children before work.

  • diligentdave
    Aug. 12, 2008 8:51 a.m.

    Sister Beck was speaking to LDS women worldwide. In many countries, including Mexico, the average LDS family is SMALLER than the average Mexican family!! Even the Wall Street Journal, almost 4 years ago, pointed to the fact that about half of all Brazilian women of child-bearing age had had tubal ligations (many paid for by local politicians running for office).

    Worldwide, plummeting human fertility rates are at the core of many growing problems. In the U.S., I assert that the average 1.71 babies born to the average white woman is behind the need for many more immigrants. And, since our legal limits are so low, hence the NEED, and not only the "PROBLEM" of "too many 'illegal' immigrants".

  • Women's roles
    Aug. 12, 2008 8:50 a.m.

    I haven't bothered to read all the comments here. While I do believe women should be educated and able pursue careers equally with men, I also agree that women are an integral part of the family. Children need to be reared by a parent. When they spend all day at the day care, they learn nothing of their parents or their parents' values. When they come home, they eat dinner, bathe and go to bed. There is little quality time. We are paying for virtual strangers to raise our children.

    On the other hand, I am also part of the many families who need a second income to cope with the expenses of day-to-day living. We do not have children yet, but we are trying. Both of us desparately want for me to stay home and raise our children.

    I believe the womens role in the family is divine. One of the most basic and beautiful doctrines in the church is that of the eternal family. What better way to strengthen the family than to have a mother who raises her children?

  • Moms
    Aug. 12, 2008 8:45 a.m.

    Well, I am just glad that my mom was home with me. She wasn't always, as she divorced early, but when she remarried she was in the home. I love and respect all women. This is a personal choice, as with all personal choices, for which we will individually be held accountable for. The proclamation of the family states the roles of fathers and mothers as preordained by God the Father, thus we know our responsibilities. The time in the home is so short, kids will be raised before you know it, thus the sacrifice is limited to those few years that the kids are not in school. My wife worked the first two years of our oldest daughter and it was tough on all three of us, but with our second she has been home and enjoys "most" days. I respect her for taking on the most challenging job in the world (mother, wife (hardest part:), home-maker (whatever that is), and member of this great Gospel and this wonderful nation. Take heart women of this Church, don't let anger, pride or resentment persuade you to forget Christ's love, patience and longsuffering. Know that you are loved and respected.

  • Travis
    Aug. 12, 2008 7:35 a.m.

    Camille Aagard, I respect your courage. Thanks for speaking up.

  • ramper
    Aug. 12, 2008 7:28 a.m.

    Re: ello
    You sharing of Pres. Hinckley's quote was great.
    Re: unmet expectations
    Your comment "We compare ourselves at our worst against others at their best and of course fall short"
    was super.
    Being a male, I do marvel at our women and do try to get out of the way. If not, my wife tosses me out of the way. And, I'm an ex-boxer.

  • Zeelander
    Aug. 12, 2008 4:42 a.m.

    "Pride" comes before being 'offended.' Pride comes before a fall. Beware least you fall!

    It seems that many complainants do not have a true spiritual perspective of God's Great Plan of Happiness; a mother's roll in life; women's rolls in general; or earthly families, etc. There will be eternal JOY and felicity for those of us who make it to the Celestial Kingdom. Not to worry!

    A single and previously married and divorced mother who is very happy in the Church.

  • Odds and Ends
    Aug. 12, 2008 1:24 a.m.

    To some who have commented on friends and sisters who are beating themselves up with the stick they are measured by, I would suggest some prioritizing. God, nor the Church, expects any of us to "run faster than we are able", including mothers. Do the best you can, do all you can, but you can't do it ALL, and you shouldn't feel that you have to.

    I have raised 9 children and helped raise 4 stepchildren. I LOVE being a mother. My own mother couldn't have children, so she and dad adopted me and my sister. I know wonderful women who have not had children, but they "mother" all the children in their Primary class, or nieces and nephews. Being a mother means doing the best we can do, with the help of the Lord and loved ones around us, to raise our children to be decent, honorable people. Sometimes I have been able to stay home, especially when they were young. Sometimes I've had to work due to financial need. I've cleaned motel rooms, taking my children with me. They learned how to work together, and we have good memories of those times. I worked at school, too.

  • re:Wheat and the Tares
    Aug. 12, 2008 12:06 a.m.

    "Great leaders are unapologetic about truth, and care more speaking it than being popular."

    Pure, honest people are great because of who they are.

    That's good company also. Gordon B. Hinckley, Spencer Wooley Kimball, David O. McKay, Gahndi, Jesus, Dr. King, Muhammed Ali, Rosa Parks, Cesear Chavez, George Washington, John Adams, Mother Teresa, Abraham Lincoln, Nelson Mandela, Stephen Biko, Joseph Smith Junior, Moses, my mother, my father, my grandfather, my grandmother, my first grade teacher, my wife, my two sweet daughters... all pure and honest.

    Most have no letters behind their names, some had titles that preceded their names, but they were not great because of their titles.

    Nope, they were great because they were pure and honest. They did not lead their lives worried what others thought. It was all between themselves and God. No one had to set a standard for them. They set it themselves.

    So please, grab the caravan to heaven and enjoy the ride. I'll just be living here trying to figure out what God has in store for me, and then doing it. I'll see ya'all in the hereafter, and I just hope that I am worthy to sit at the feet of God.

  • re:re:Bruce Willis
    Aug. 11, 2008 11:49 p.m.

    Boy, that sure helped the discussion along. Do you feel better now that you had a chance to make someone feel less than you?

    I read it and saw it also, but I knew it was a horse.

    I'm guessing you're a person who lives to point out everyone's imperfections, because you have low self esteem, and pointing out errors makes you feel superior to all of the rest of the world.

    It's ok.

    You can relax, this is a posting board, none of us know who you are. None of us care what you are, only you should care.

    Isn't that what this whole thing is about? Everyone thinks they have to be perfect, and if you can make someone less than you, that makes you better?

    Life is not a "zero-sum gain". We can all win.

    Every mother who cares about her children, who bandages their cuts, who has a soft word when they need it, who puts her children before herself, working or not, is a valiant soilder in God's army, and he cares, and knows who you are.

    You are special and worthy of his love.

    I'll give you another chance to let it go.

    HOURSE.

  • Nailed It you Mothers who Knew
    Aug. 11, 2008 11:34 p.m.

    Dear:
    in addition... | 10:05 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
    unmet expectations | 9:59 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008
    SAHM | 9:16 p.m. Aug. 11, 2008

    This discussion is finally getting sensible. Now all of the Molly's and Anti's have had their say, isn't Motherhood about being the best mother you can to those precious little heavenly gifts, whether you choose to stay at home, or work? It's not either/or.

    I know some sisters who marry money, or demand their husbands put in extra hours so they can stay at home, then hire maids and nannys, and get playdates to dump their kids off, and sit in the pew like a queen bee because they stay at home, and look down their noses at the less fortunate. Just like a closet alcoholic, they are one thing for show, but not really there for their kids.

    Other moms take on small jobs, or even work full time, but do it to take the responsibility off the father so that he can be part of the family unit.

    Others do it to shelter, feed and clothe their kids.

    I applaud the Mothers Who Knew, well before the talk was given...

    (Slow clap... Applause)

  • Lori
    Aug. 11, 2008 10:48 p.m.

    I loved Sister Beck's talk. To me there is nothing better in the world than the joy of being a mother. I have six children, now all grown. I loved every minute of motherhood, and would go back and gladly do it all over again! Thank you Sister Beck for your inspired words.

  • CP
    Aug. 11, 2008 10:40 p.m.

    To SAHM: YOU ARE SO RIGHT!

  • in addition...
    Aug. 11, 2008 10:05 p.m.

    I loved Sis. Beck's talk and would add the following:
    Mothers who know watch their small children and don't let them wander the neighborhood unattended for hours on end. Mothers who know, know it is their responsibility to supervise their kids, not the rest of the neighborhood.

    Mothers who know, know their limits. They don't expect to get a free pass simply because they're overwhelmed. Their 8th child deserves the same attention and care as their first and shouldn't be left to their own devices simply because Mommy is going through menopause with a toddler on her hip.

    Mothers who know don't take the easy way out just because it's easier. They'll stick to a principle even if a child whines for two hours instead of giving in because the kids knows next time she'll cave eventually.

    Mothers who know are willing to take their turn in Primary callings. Most of us would rather be in RS than dealing with her bratty undisciplined kids and she needs to do her fair share. Being with your kids all day is not a valid excuse. So were the rest of us and we take our turn.

  • unmet expectations
    Aug. 11, 2008 9:59 p.m.

    re: reply at 1:16. I grew up in Utah and lived there 33 years. I know there are many good people in Utah, but was responding to the poster who commented about the high need for antidepressants in Utah. I remember in 1979 Sister Barbara Smith, the General RS president at that time, gave a talk on KSL about Mormon Women and Depression. I believe she said in part it was from women expecting too much of themselves. I saw this all the time in Utah. The "steps to perfection" wasn't unique to my ward. It was even suggested at a RS presidency mtg here in CA by someone who heard about it from her sister in Utah. It was instantly rejected. We compare ourselves at our worst against others at their best and of course we fall short. Programs like this aren't helpful, they just create more pressure. Women need to stop comparing and then trying to be better than their neighbors. It's divisive and unhealthy. I loved Sis Beck's talk because I can compete against myself to improve my life. Love, serve, do your best and be happy.

  • Re: ello
    Aug. 11, 2008 9:55 p.m.

    That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, and I'm a woman who has spent nearly 30 years in the church.

    President Hinckley was giving an interview a few years ago, and one of the questions asked was how the church treats its women. His reply is one of my favorite quotes, though I'm paraphrasing at the moment.

    "How do we treat women in the church? We get out of their way! And then we stand back and marvel at all the things they are able to accomplish."

  • Don't shoot the messanger
    Aug. 11, 2008 9:32 p.m.

    "Wisdom is the principle thing, therefore, get wisdom, and with all thy getting, get understanding". (Proverbs)

    Self mastery brings lasting happiness. Thankfully when we stumble and fall short of expectations (self imposed or otherwise) we have the blessing of the Atonement to make us whole.

    Don't shoot the messenger for preaching the principle...

  • Cindy
    Aug. 11, 2008 9:26 p.m.

    Re: SAHM
    YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

  • SAHM
    Aug. 11, 2008 9:16 p.m.

    I'm sorry, can someone please help me out. What does SAHM mean?

    I'll try to guess. You correct me if I'm wrong:

    SAHM = Sheep Ambling as Homebound Mothers

    SAHM = Self-righteous, Arrogant Home Makers

    SAHM = Simpletons Aspiring to be Help Mates

    SAHM = Staying Away from Higher Mentation

    SAHM = Superiority Attitude about Home Making

    ... let me know if I'm getting close...

  • CP
    Aug. 11, 2008 8:55 p.m.

    Hey I think most of those commented in the article are totally off the mark. But I do applaud the lady who stood up to defend her role of a mother and to tell the dude off afterwards who told her she was a slave. Motherhood is not a disgusting role. And it appears to me that this Toscano sounds like another Rocky Anderson. And anyone who follows someone like that is nuts. And I think that these so called "mothers" who have signed a petition against the talk of Sis. Beck just plain were not hearing what she was saying, and just came to their own ding-dong conclusion about what she really said. Try reading it again before you get your shorts all knotted up. And all you just need to take a chill pill.

  • Ha! To Big Whoop
    Aug. 11, 2008 8:28 p.m.

    What makes you so sure you have the most letters? I find that rather presumptive. The most important letters I've earned are M-A-M-A =)!

    Respectfully,

    Consider the Ego

  • Logan Tom's Fan
    Aug. 11, 2008 8:18 p.m.

    On one side, we have the Gospel to give us guidelines...

    On the other side, we have society to contradict the guidelines...

    I wonder which side to pick?

  • Frustrated!
    Aug. 11, 2008 7:42 p.m.

    I can't believe what I'm reading in some of these comments. We are not mindless, we are not slaves, we make choices based on the spirit, and we are not expected to be perfect mothers, but to strive to do our best.

    The family is what the gospel is about, Satan knows this, and he's destroying it, and those of you offended by Beck's talk are supporting him in that effort.

    To those who are offended with Sis. Beck's talk need to get on their knees and ask Heavenly Father if it is true, much like most of us did with the Book of Mormon. And then go from there. You are not defending the rights of all the women in the church by publicly criticizing Sister Beck, this is a matter to be dealt with between you and your Father in Heaven.

    I sincerely hope, this is the last article I ever see on this topic.

  • DT
    Aug. 11, 2008 7:09 p.m.

    Whine about it!!!

  • Beck Misses the Mark
    Aug. 11, 2008 7:05 p.m.

    re:LW

    "Clearly Sister Beck was teaching the PRINCIPLE of motherhood".

    Soooooo...

    The principle of motherhood can be taught in 10 minutes?

    It's cut and dry, either you are the perfect mom (Stay at Home), or you are not (you work because you are selfish).

    Mothering to do with controlling your six kids while you stay at home. Keep them out of the neighbors garden, don't let them out with a can of spray paint. These "Mothers Who Know" do nothing to control them in church. They climb, they eat, they color. I'm always missing the talks in church, picking up toys for the stay at home's kids, cleaning up their snacks, and trying to keep their "goldfish" yellow hands off my suit while SAHM ignores her brood, and my children pay attention in church.

    Sister Beck really missed the mark.

    Just staying home, pumping out kids, and having family night doesn't cut it. Get work-horse father involved.

    He's too tired?

    I know many mothers who work whose chilren are well behaved, respectful, and spiritual.

    To just say SAHM = good, Working mother = bad is an ignorant topic.

    The only thing that offends me about the talk is the premise.

  • LW
    Aug. 11, 2008 6:16 p.m.

    From Sister Beck's talk:

    "Mothers who know desire to bear children. Whereas in many cultures in the world children are becoming less valued,2 in the culture of the gospel we still believe in having children. Prophets, seers, and revelators who were sustained at this conference have declared that Gods commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force.3

    Some women are not given the responsibility of bearing children in mortality, but . . . the value women place on motherhood in this life and the attributes of motherhood they attain here will rise with them in the Resurrection (see D&C 130:18)."

    Many people have mentioned that this talk was not directed at everyone (single, childless, men, etc), but I disagree. Clearly Sister Beck was teaching the PRINCIPLE of motherhood - not merely the act of it. Principles need to be learned and understood by all. An early commandment given to humanity was to be fruitful and multiply, and Sister Beck was reminding us of the universality and eternal nature of that commandment. Her talk included examples of the types of acts that might help us develop the attributes of motherhood.

  • Big Whoop
    Aug. 11, 2008 4:44 p.m.

    To Consider the Ego,

    I would bet a small fortune that I have more letters behind my name than you do. If that is a "big whoop" for you, then it did not need to be said at all, right?!

    I confess, your point is somewhat important, if people would really abide by it. I feel the same way. Where you and I differ is that I found nothing Sister Beck said to give my any help in working out my own salvation. Her talk was completely and entirely worthless in helping me with that.

    My response to her talk was (and still is): Big Whoop! It was a waste of time to listen to it.

  • Chuck Farley
    Aug. 11, 2008 4:37 p.m.

    In the immortal words of Don Henley - "Get over it!"

  • Toscano
    Aug. 11, 2008 4:37 p.m.

    Why go to Margaret Toscano for commentary. She is an ex-communicated member that talks freely of her disagreements with church leaders and policies. What kind of comments do you expect to get from her?

  • To: I have letters after my name
    Aug. 11, 2008 4:18 p.m.

    Ha! I just read your post and it sounds exactly like mine (see mine: "Consider the Ego"). We should get together. It sounds like you're a few years ahead of me; I'd love to get some advice sometime.

  • Consider the Ego
    Aug. 11, 2008 3:56 p.m.

    I'm an educated woman with letters after my name. Big woop. Sister Beck's talk was inspired, uplifting, and full of wisdom. It may be time for many of her critics to thoughtfully consider the role of their own egos. I had children late in my marriage, especially for Utah. I'm now a full-time mother and health challenges preclude me from having as many children as I would like. I am, in the words of Siddharta Gautama, "working out my own salvation," and not everyone else's, through the miracle of Christ's Atonement. Sunstone and Beck's critics would do well to remember that "men go crazy in congregations, they only get better one by one."

  • Interesting...
    Aug. 11, 2008 3:56 p.m.

    Its amazing to me how much discussion is taking place on a talk that was given in 2007! Both sides of the debate need to get a life and stop arguing about something that is a pointless argument to begin with.

    Only in Mormon Land can a discussion take place over what is right and what is wrong when it comes to parenting. I don't support 100% of what Sister Beck said but I don't condemn it. Sure it made it through the "Powers that be" and it was presented with approval. However, we all make the choice whether to cry about it or personally accept it.

    My wife and I can't have kids and have more right to be offended over this talk than most...Are we still thinking about a talk given in General Conference months ago?

    NOPE! We have more important things to do.

    One last thing. Just because it comes from "The Church," it doesn't necessarily mean its doctrine. There have been many things that have been said and done that weren't inspired.

  • Wheat and the tares
    Aug. 11, 2008 3:44 p.m.

    Wheat and the tares...You cannot petition and protest truth away. Great leaders are unapologetic about truth, and care more speaking it than being popular. Sister Beck is in pretty good company: Abinadi, Samuel the Lamanite, Joseph Smith...

  • Me
    Aug. 11, 2008 3:43 p.m.

    Maybe Ms. Toscano would rather live in a patriarchy such as Africa, any Muslim country, India or China, where women provide for the family and bear the children, raising them primarily on their own and the men take all of the money. I don't think that is what you are seeing in the Mormon culture. Sister Beck was speaking to Mothers. If a woman isn't a mother, than maybe she wasn't speaking to those that aren't raising children. Sister Beck has stated that she didn't write the talk, but that it was given her of God. What is God's opinion about who you are and what you should be?

  • Re: Bruce Willis
    Aug. 11, 2008 3:34 p.m.

    What's a hourse?

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 11, 2008 3:25 p.m.

    Validity draws the fire.

  • Take a second look
    Aug. 11, 2008 2:45 p.m.

    Maybe if you really looked at what Sister Beck said, this wouldn't be such a discussion.

    She said nothing about women having to have children - she said "mothers who know DESIRE to bear children". She speaks of ironed clothes and brushed hair as an example - people she has actually seen - of how mothers can influence their children to "desired eternal goals". She doesn't speak of having an immaculate home, but making a home that has a climate for SPIRITUAL GROWTH. It's hard to have scripture study if you can't find a place to sit down!

    Go through the talk people. You can find offense anywhere you look hard enough, but I just find a woman showing me the ideal. When she says "Latter-day Saint women should be the very best in the world at upholding, nurturing, and protecting families" I believe that - as a group. If you truly believe the LDS faith is the Lord's church, than as a group we should be able to do his work the best, and that includes raising families.

  • Follower
    Aug. 11, 2008 2:19 p.m.

    Sister Beck is not focused on the resume she will leave behind or her ego or her power to control others in the world? She doesn't even have a hyphenated name. Wow what a fool she is. All she will have in the after life is the reward she gets for being a selfless servant of her fellow beings and her maker. All she will have is the love she built between her, her family and others. What a pity.

  • KIT
    Aug. 11, 2008 2:02 p.m.

    Sister Becks talk said NOTHING about staying home. It talked about stepping up and doing our responsibility as women . Whether you do this while working or staying home is up to you and the Lord. There is nothing wrong with being reminded of the sacredness of the home and raising children.
    That conference inspired me to get back in school and finish my degree. It encouraged me to develop my talents and work harder as a mother. What's so bada bout that?

  • Re: JC
    Aug. 11, 2008 1:36 p.m.

    Right on brother!

  • A dude
    Aug. 11, 2008 1:32 p.m.

    I make $12.80/hr. I go to school. My wife stays at home with our son. We get by (with no assistance from govt, church, family, school, etc). It can work, but we don't have a nice TV or any fancy new game consols or a new car.

  • I have letters after my name. .
    Aug. 11, 2008 1:24 p.m.

    Big whoop. After a long and successful career I married and was able to give birth to two terrific children. I chose to stay home and raise my best friends rather continue my profession. There are times I miss things about the professional world. Although I've kept up with my field of study and continue to take on-going classes so I can perhaps one day re-enter my profession, I have learned for myself that there is nothing more grand and all encompassing than motherhood. Sister Beck knows what she's talking about--as do all our general authorities. I know this because I have a testimony that these people are guided by Jesus Christ Himself. What we need is not more intelligence, but more faith--the kind that follows real soul searching.

    Motherhood is/was hard--hardest thing I've ever done. Now that they're in their later teens, I look back at my wonderful family with one major regret--that I was not blessed (unable) to have more children. I pray I'll live worthy so I may have that exquisite blessing throughout eternity. True motherhood is the most soul-expanding venture I've ever been through.

  • Re: Maren
    Aug. 11, 2008 1:25 p.m.

    I work with alot of women, and I can tell you that some of them are working for selfish reasons. One women I know has the biggest house in the entire neighborhood, she had a great house that fit her family. Her husband has a good job. It was all about having the new house. That all she talked about. That is why she is working. I feel sorry for her kids going to daycare all day.

  • Professional & MOM
    Aug. 11, 2008 1:22 p.m.

    If you think women's roles are adequately acknowledged by the patriachial leadership, notice the Ensign & Church News bios for mission presidents, temple presidents, & other Church leaders. The man's professional accomplishments are always listed, the women's rarely are. And yet, the women partner with their husband in fulfilling these callings. What are they trying to hide? Where would healthcare & education be without women?

  • re: unmet expectations
    Aug. 11, 2008 1:16 p.m.

    Utah is a great place, like everywhere else we have our share of looney's. It sounds like you know that 1st hand from the experience you had. I agree that was a weird and inappropriate activity. It could have been a looney's idea or just a misguided well meaning sister. Don't charactize all of Utah this way, because I promise you don't know what it is like eerywhere in Utah.

  • JC
    Aug. 11, 2008 12:53 p.m.

    Well, I'm sick and tired of only being good for providing for my family and getting my wife pregnant. I feel like a old tired work horse. Get up, goto work, come home, feel guilty for not spending enough time with kids and not doing enough around the house, and on and on and on...

    Get over it people. So you don't agree with something that was said in General Conference. Big deal, it doesn't make it any less true because so many people are mad about it. Both genders have a divine destiny and like it or not that is the way it is.

    The church teaches pure principles and the highest ideals that we should all be striving to become. What are the suppose to preach? How crappy it feels somedays to get up and and fulfill our responsiblities. Reality is that life sucks some days but we get up and try again to do better the next.

    I however, appreciate leaders that preach the ideal and encourage me to be a litte bit better each day.

    ps. Me: employed outside home, Wife: homemaker. Works for us...

  • ello
    Aug. 11, 2008 12:43 p.m.

    The LDS church does not respect women. We all know it, anyone who studies the Church knows it.

  • Satan's work
    Aug. 11, 2008 12:34 p.m.

    "Firestorm?" 340 blogs? Why?

    The only question is, did God ordain men and women as partners in the creation of the human family, with their distinct and complementary roles?

    It was been hard work in our family, and worth every day of it. If you believe differently, then try out your plan.

    Some folks seem plenty able to leave the Church and its teachings. But they just can't leave it alone.

  • Missing the point
    Aug. 11, 2008 12:18 p.m.

    If the liberal thinking Sunstone group would get a clue and accept the amazing role that women/mothers play in the course of the world then they would not have any trouble with Sister Beck's talk. Pride will be the downfall of society as it is those who assume that motherhood is a limiting and demeaning philosophy.

  • Maren
    Aug. 11, 2008 12:13 p.m.

    Where are all these people who work for "selfish" reasons, and how do you know? Have you talked to every single one of them? Because I do talk to all the mothers I work with, and I do know that they all have their own reasons for working, none of them selfish. It is amazing to me that those who have the priviledge and blessing of having enough to live on look down on those who may not. My husbands family literally often do not know where their next meal will come from. So many people have financial worries. I do not think we should judge. I think women who stay at home are great. I think women who work are great. I think it is bad of anyone to say that someone is selfish because of their choices. No one knows but God. It is no wonder some of us feel left out in Relief Society. People who do not know my circumstances call me selfish. I have learned that no one knows anothers heart. All we should do is love one another and leave it up to God.

  • Respectfully
    Aug. 11, 2008 12:10 p.m.

    I have no wish to offend, but I was reading a few of these comments and have to repond. I don't have time to read all of them because I'm at work. I'm amazed at the controversy these words caused. I went back and read the whole talk, and believe it was a great talk!
    As for the person who wrote "Women leaders...make me cringe" I must have misunderstood you. Are you saying that they shouldn't use life experiences in this global church due to cultural differences. By that token you won't learn anything today from any of the Old Testament Women and their stories. Or any of our scriptures for that matter in our NEW, Refined, and High Tech world. IF WE ARE listening with the spirit(D&C 50:17-23 / Nep 8:12)
    If we aren't listening with the spirit confusion can occur. I've had to go back and read a few myself because of distraction or unpreparedness to listen and hear. When we are searching for God in these words, have the spirit, and look for comfort we will find IT. Knock, Ask, and Search. I feel bad for those not listening in this case, because it was spiritually guided.

  • Brian
    Aug. 11, 2008 11:44 a.m.

    My wife and I have raised three children. The oldest son has a degree from Utah State, served a mission for the church and was married in the temple. The second, a daughter, has a degree from the University of Utah, teaches first grade, plays piano in Primary and hopes to be married in the temple and will be a wonderful mother. The third child is currently serving a mission in South America. My wife is a full time mother, a wonderful wife, and a part time nurse. On top of her many accomplishments she would say that being a mother of these three wonderful and beautiful children is her greatest accomplishment. Together, my wife and I have changed many diapers, washed many dishes, vacuumed many floors, cleaned many little messes, relished every primary talk, smiled during every hour of piano practice, and stood with pride at high school and college graduations. No, our lives aren't perfect. We look for talks like Sister Beck's to help us become better. I love my wife and I am proud of her as the mother of our children. My greatest accomplishment is to be a husband and father.

  • re:Maren | 10:19 a.m.
    Aug. 11, 2008 11:43 a.m.

    Maren, Sister Beck was speaking as President of the Relief Society, the church's organization, so she was speaking directly to you,

    Saying that she wasn't is like saying the church leaders were not speaking to me about drinking, smoking and playing poker.

    The church is about you becoming perfect here on earth, therefore setting us on a road where we can never achieve success.

    The Gosple of Jesus Christ is about intelligence, thining and understanding gosple principles, families, and eternal salvation.

    I live the gosple, but find thing that are said in church are sometimes weird.

    Just remember that in heaven, there will be no need for a "church", kids in white shirts and ties, and mormons to walk around and inspect your homes. Just do the best raising your kids. The church is there as a tool to help you, but if you're doing some plumbing, and don't need a hammer, don't pull it out of the tool box.

  • Dana
    Aug. 11, 2008 11:19 a.m.

    I feel like many others on that have commented that what Sis Beck talked about in her talk was a very important thing for us as women and mothers to hear. When I heard her talk it gave me hope and encouragement that what I am doing as a mother has eternal influence and power in this world. I feel bad for those women who got offended from her talk. You have to ask yourself really deep down why you are feeling that way? Maybe you will be surprised the answer, maybe not. I feel that all this talk against what Sis Beck said about the importance of our roles as mothers will lead to what the Family Proclamation to the world says "Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets." I believe that as mothers we are the glue that will hold our families together. It is important that we have the correct understanding of what our roles are in our family. Not everyone will be the same because we all live in different circumstances. SO PRAY TO KNOW YOUR ROLE!

  • re:Steve
    Aug. 11, 2008 11:19 a.m.

    When people say you are judgemental, they can be observing a behvior of making personal judgements of "someone elses morals", something I think the Bible talked about, "Judge not lest ye be judged".

    When someone tells you that you feel guilty, are wicked, that the caravan to heaven is going to leave without you (insinuating you're not going to make it to heaven but they are...

    I think that is wrong, and really one of the things my fellow LDS do that get's sort of old.

  • Love Being a Mom
    Aug. 11, 2008 10:55 a.m.

    I think much of what is causing so much controversy is difference in perspectives and circumstances. The last comment that was addressed to Maren was right on. Everyone's situations are different and thus result in different ways of raising a family. Everyone has to do what works for them and their families. The Spirit will confirm our decision as correct if it is in line with the Lord's will for us.

    Sister Beck was addressing where our hearts and desires should be. There are many women out their who must work to keep their families up and running, that have a great desire to be with their children as much and has fully as they can. I think that that is all she is talking about. Just be your very best!

    I have the wonderful blessing of being able to stay home to raise my children. Financially this is possible for us. We live quite frugally but very happily. I am just happy to know that I get to raise my children rather than someone else who may not be striving to be the best mother - a mother who knows and holds a testimony of the truth.

  • Mary
    Aug. 11, 2008 10:42 a.m.

    I loved Sis Beck's Talk. Am I the woman in her talk? Absolutely not...but I can try to be. For me, the talk simply illustrated how to be better, I'm not offended by that or overwhelmed by it - I'm grateful for it. As a 27 year old mother of 1 and 1 on the way, I have no clue what I'm doing, nothing prepared me for this. I want to be the best for my children and do what's best for them. And I believe that between God and myself, we can decided what is best for me and my family, and I think that is true for us all.

  • To Maren:
    Aug. 11, 2008 10:38 a.m.

    Sister Beck wasn't speaking to working mothers, she was speaking to stay at home mothers. Everybody knows that sometimes, it's just not possible to stay home with your kids. Nobody's faulting you for that.

    What these comments are referring to are those families that can afford to have a parent without employment, but because of selfish reasons, that parent goes out and gets a job anyway, regardless of whether his or her children need him/her around at home more than they need to be earning a paycheck.

    Sister Beck's talks have highlighted the idea that being a mother is the most important job a woman can have. Some women feel that their career is the most important job they can have, and when they hear what the LDS church teaches, they become offended. Nobody is speaking about the women who, due to financial concerns, HAVE to work in order to provide for the needs of their families.

  • Maren
    Aug. 11, 2008 10:19 a.m.

    I love the idea that we all "choose" to be selfish and work for our own desires. Funny, I desire my daughter to eat, so I work. Wow, what selfishness I possess. Other ladies in my neighborhood trade babysitting days so they can go to the gym, scrapbook, or just have some quiet time. Which, I am sure, is much better than the fact that I so selfishly go to work so my child can have a roof over her head. I have never owned a scrapbook because the materials seem like a luxury, but my selfishness in wanting to clothe my child is apparent. The reason some of us "evil" women felt hurt by the talk is simply that we already struggle to find a place in the church. I have a testimony, but it does not mean I am immune to hurt. I just have to choose to rise above it. I really wish that condemnation would really be reserved to those without sin, and the rest of us would just love one another.

  • unmet expectations
    Aug. 11, 2008 10:06 a.m.

    I was pleasantly surprised when I moved out of Utah, to find a RS that wasn't filled with women who were freaking out over whether or not they ironed their 5year olds t=shirts. So much of the guilt Mormon women feel is self inflicted. It is not coming from our leaders. I love Pres. Hinckley's wise counsel of "just do your best." I've had friends who've moved to Utah and say they feel the pressure to be perfect. When my ward suggested doing a "steps to perfection" program, I told them I would not participate and why. I was supposed to set goals and when I achieved them, my husband or VT had to sign off that I'd accomplished it. How offensive, I'm an adult and I know and God knows if I've accomplished my goal. I've been out of Utah for 20 years now and have never once had a RS have this type of goals program. I'm grateful. Your Eternal welfare does not depend on how many quarts of peaches you bottle or how many quilts you make. Love, serve and be happy. It's all so simple.

  • To some things to consider
    Aug. 11, 2008 10:01 a.m.

    Consider this: Start by living within your means. Sell your ATVs and your boat. If you can't make your mortgage payment then don't send your wife to work, rather, look at getting into a home that you could afford in the first place. Just because the Jones family next door has those things doesn't mean you can even afford to live in the neighborhood.

    Education is great, but if your kids want it, make them pay for it themselves. Your responsibility is to educate them enough to where they want an education and pursue it on their own, not to pay for it for them.

    Don't blame any of your or anyone else's financial difficulties on the Church because it's not the Church's fault. I'm a father of three and sole bread-winner in my family and we make it just fine. The trick is to know your limits. Our children will benefit more by having their mother at home than by having a bigger house, nicer cars, and being spoiled with everything they want.

  • mrs. ink
    Aug. 11, 2008 9:34 a.m.

    Thanks! I appreciate this article and the comments (inane or otherwise) because it made me go back and reread Sis. Beck's talk with new eyes, and I think I got even more out of it than the first time around. Mothers who know (like me) got the uplift, the rest of you got offended.

    "And the eyes of them that see shall not be dim, and the ears of them that hear shall hearken."

  • Re: some things to consider
    Aug. 11, 2008 9:36 a.m.

    It is possible to have one wage earner. I am a father of 6 and a sole wage earner. You just can't keep up with the neighbors.

  • Some things to consider
    Aug. 11, 2008 9:24 a.m.

    Some things to consider. Utah leads the nation in the proscribing of anti-depressant medication. Utah has led or is very high in the rates of bankruptcies. There are some serious problems in our communities and I think it ties back to what we believe. In today's world, especially recently, it is simply not possible to have one wage earner in a family. I say this and for many years my wife was a stay at home mother. In today's economy with inflation many times higher than officially stated, and with wage growth stagnant, it is not possible for many people to pay 10% of their (gross) income to an organization. Many people, like myself, pay tithing, but any objective look at what it is doing shows that we can not save adequately for retirement by doing this and we can not save for our children's education by doing this. The church needs to adjust tithing so that the sacrifice does not drive people away out of a fear of not being able to do it. It needs to adjust what it expects out of its members. Unmet expectations causes many good people to get depressed.

  • 3rd quote
    Aug. 11, 2008 9:24 a.m.

    "and in our belief that the life story we are ultimately responsible for is our own." This is the last line on the whatwomenknow website. Sounds kinda selfish doesn't it. Sounds kinda like they aren't responsible for their children. Every kid isn't going to turn out perfect. I didn't, and my parents tried pretty hard. What a crock. Read both the talk and this website. Then you decide.

  • It's too easy to follow ?
    Aug. 11, 2008 9:16 a.m.

    Number 21:4-9 - Look and Live. Beck speaks the truth, doesn't suit some - so they have their reward of their own heart anyway. What's the big deal ?

  • Cowboy
    Aug. 11, 2008 9:10 a.m.

    Fatherhood is as good as motherhood any day. I agree with COWBOY UP! Get on your saddles and get to riding. Life is too short to be whiner.

  • 2nd quote
    Aug. 11, 2008 8:56 a.m.

    "Effective parenting is a learned behavior, and, as parents, we learn and grow with each child. Children come with their own gifts, challenges, and freedom of choice. (We reject teachings that encourage women to shoulder ultimate responsibility for every aspect of child-rearing and family life), and to take on shame and guilt when things do not go according to plan." Here is a quote from the opposition website. Sounds like they don't want to take responsibility for their own children. You decide!

  • Quote
    Aug. 11, 2008 8:48 a.m.

    "They do not abandon their plan by succumbing to social pressure and worldly models of parenting" Here is a quote from Sister Beck's talk. It descibes this opposition to a tee. Read the talk on lds.org and then read this article and decide for yourself.

  • Stephanie
    Aug. 11, 2008 8:21 a.m.

    "Women Leaders" - are you aware that Sister Beck was partly raised in South America? Her mother was the first mission president's wife, and she organized the first Relief Society ever in South America. Perhaps you ought to get to know her a bit more before saying, "As I listen to them it is apparent that so many of them have never lived overseas or have been exposed to any other culture". She likely knows more than you.

  • flip answers
    Aug. 11, 2008 8:13 a.m.

    I cowboy'd up by finally finding the edification I was longing for in my quest for a closer relationship with my Father in Heaven. Each day there is much reason to rejoice as I leave the caravan and look for the one to assist and nurture in their own struggle. After long years of heartache and disillusion in faithful obedience, I found peace by following my heart and acting with integrity to the moral purposes of living my best life and supporting others in doing the same. This took me right out the doors of the LDS church. As I read some of these comments stating 500 people don't matter, that the church caravan detours for no one, I can see why. What has happened to compassion for the individual? Seems it may have just become too much for this organization to deal with people one on one, or perhaps the members have become too busy to enjoy the neighborly behavior that builds trust and helps identify those that could use some support.

  • Wow
    Aug. 11, 2008 7:38 a.m.

    Wow, so many comments are so far off the mark. I was raised in Alpine and know members of Julie Bangerter Beck's family personally. Sis. Beck does not speak from some provincial uninformed position. When she was a girl, her father (Wm. Grant Bangerter) served as a mission president in Brazil, with the family living there. The members of her family are among the best, down-to-earth people I know. If her message upsets you, I would look inward and ask yourself why.

  • Steve Masterson
    Aug. 11, 2008 5:16 a.m.

    Are people who say others are judgemental,judging them as judgemental? How silly to say someone is judgemental. Everyone is judgemental! Including those on here who say others who disagree with them are judging those whom they condemn.

  • Bruce Willis
    Aug. 11, 2008 3:00 a.m.

    "Cowboy up" means you get on your hourse and ride.

    No excuses, no whining, just doing it.

  • Ernst T. Bass
    Aug. 11, 2008 1:26 a.m.

    Why does Sunstone have a problem with this?

    If your kids don't come out squeaky clean, it's your fault.

    Dad's OK, he has a job.

    Why would one woman do this to all the other women? Give them a difficult standard, and set them up to fail?

    (I'd quote a scripture here, but the best ones have been taken).

  • Beck or Dew?
    Aug. 10, 2008 11:55 p.m.

    There is no doubt that Church leaders, both women and men, infuse a great deal of their own, personal perspectives and viewpoints into what they teach as Church "doctrine."

    Sister Beck infused a bit more than a little of her own narrow views into her talk, and did so with an indelicacy that is somewhat shocking, even for those of us who are faithful Latter-day Saints.

    If the Prophet and First Presidency were committed to the kind of narrow view of women's roles that Sister Beck described, they would never have approved the calling of Sheri Dew as a counselor to Mary Ellen W. Smoot in the R.S. General Presidency from 1997 to 2002, the first non-married woman called to this position in Church History!

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 10, 2008 11:27 p.m.

    Call me crazy, but I think this was a very poorly written article! I wish they would have put a link to Sister Becks talk. Then we could really think it through by ourselves. And quoting so many different random people...
    If the talk by Sister Beck is the one that I think it was, it was very well done! As women, we all have our place in this world. We all have different stories. Different journeys. Sister Beck has simply been called to try to shed some light on how to find our way through the choices that we have to make as women. Once we find our path, whatever that is, motherhood or not, just enjoy it and don't try to be one to pull others to your life's journey simply because you think it's the best. It is your journey! Let others find theirs and be happy for them when they do. That is true sisterhood.

  • RE: Lucy
    Aug. 10, 2008 11:10 p.m.

    What does "cowboy up" mean?

  • just a thought
    Aug. 10, 2008 10:49 p.m.

    Those who are very offended by Sister Beck's talk might want to re read the recent conference talk given recently by - was it Bednar? - where he talked about how " people CHOOSE to be offended". It was a great talk and would help a lot of you. Those of you who are running around going crazy about this talk might want to consider reading the Proclamation on the Family again. If you don't like the content, take it up with the prophet!!!

  • rogerdpack
    Aug. 10, 2008 10:39 p.m.

    I had a friend once who told me "you know it's too bad--you and I never get to have the best calling. We never get it." He was referring to motherhood and a little tongue in cheek, but also serious.
    Something to think about.
    -R

  • Dear Sister Beck
    Aug. 10, 2008 10:36 p.m.

    By perpetuating the either/or myth about women -- they can be successful in their careers or good homemakers -- you miss an opportunity to address the real fact that many women are both.

    A missed opportunity.

  • Geoff
    Aug. 10, 2008 10:32 p.m.

    Sister Beck is telling Mothers what David O. McKay told Fathers - that no success can compensate for failure in the home.

    Fathers work hard to support and nurture their families.
    Mothers work hard to support and nurture their families.

    This process is what helps us develop as human beings with understanding, empathy, service, and love. The products of this environment of hard work and sacrifice are better prepared for their own journey of becoming.

    Feminists, please understand, this is no end-around, but a direct attack on your idealogy. We accept that you will not understand that the hard working, selfless, engaged mothers who sacrifice and raise children are doing so out of choice, not by blindly following a patriarchal "order". Hard? Challenging? Difficult? Exhausting? All of the above, and worth it.

    It is our belief that our children's success, and even our societies success, depends on a mother and father, working together, to raise children properly. Yup, sacrifice is involved.

    It seems that the feminists think that Sister Beck did not see the "firestorm" coming. Unlikely. We do agree, that Mothers blindly following "patriarchal orders" should rethink why they are doing what they are doing.

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 10, 2008 10:24 p.m.

    "Social science affirms that a woman's place in society marks the level of civilization."

    Elizabeth Cady Stanton

    I hear Utah is getting one of those fancy electric lights soon.

  • --------------------------------
    Aug. 10, 2008 10:08 p.m.

    To The Non-LDS | 8:17 p.m.

    Can I just add that anyone posting does NOT represent the attitudes of the leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the vast, vast majority of it's members or the Savior we love and worship.

  • Cleaning my backyard
    Aug. 10, 2008 9:56 p.m.

    No shriek from me. Do you often shriek? I would have to care what you think, and I don't. You, I don't care what you say.

    Boyd Packer is a friend of the family, but still, his talk in Priesthood was creepy for one so young as I was, and the factory was not producing yet, and made my skin crawl. I don't like my skin to crawl during priesthood meeting.

    Sister Beck is not the prophet, and her talk was the same as anyone else's talk in church. If I spoke in your ward, you might blow me off to.

    I love my slice of Eden, Christ, my wife, my family, BYU Football, the Temple and the gospel. The church is weird, but the gospel is true.

    Sis Beck's talk did not pertain to me, I have daughters, so I don't need to dress my sons up as "Ken Doll Missionaries".

    I am not either ticked at you or Christ, I love Christ. You, I do not know, but you sound a little nutty.

    So thanks there, Samuel the Lamanite, but I'm working on my backyard, and you should work on yours.

    Sounds like you have a caravan stop.

  • To The Non-LDS
    Aug. 10, 2008 8:17 p.m.

    Please know that "Obvious", who posted on 10 Aug at 7:44, does NOT represent the attitudes of the leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the vast, vast majority of it's members or the Savior we love and worship.

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 10, 2008 8:15 p.m.

    "Mothers who know desire to bear children."

    Those who don't have kids, well, they are not mothers, which makes sense, I guess.

  • Counting on you mothers.
    Aug. 10, 2008 8:05 p.m.

    The fathers get a pass.

    Mothers who know, "their sons wear white shirts and ties and have missionary haircuts."

    All of you "mother's who know" are being found lacking.

    I will be at church next week, checking shirts for ironing and crispness. I will also be checking for grooming on all young men.

    White shirts, wash and wear; not easily wrinkled; business-like style

    Suit(s), traditional style and cut, conservative, dark colors; no sport coats. No baggy or pegged pants. Extreme or faddish styles are inappropriate. A suit coat is required while at the MTC and while traveling to and from the mission field; the extent to which you wear a suit coat in the field will be determined by your mission president.

    Belts, black or dark brown, with conservative buckles.

    Ties, conservative in color, width and design. No pictures or bright colors, no western string ties or extremely narrow ties.

    Black or bwon shoes with matching socks.

    No hair over the ears, and watch that facial hair.


    I think the LDS women have more to fear from sister Beck than the non LDS.

    I will be judging you.

  • To Glenn Foley:
    Aug. 10, 2008 7:55 p.m.

    I understood exactly what you were trying to say, there was no need for clarification for many of us. We all, every single person alive on this earth, need to know our place in our Heavenly Father's plan. That's the only possible way we can return to live with Him, and that's the only possible way we can be really, truly happy for longer than a short season. I found your words to be comforting and supportive. Please don't feel as though you need to apologize for giving offense.

  • Re: Clean Up Your Own Backyards
    Aug. 10, 2008 7:54 p.m.

    You say you have a happy life with great kids. I'm happy for you.

    However, in your own admission, you "blew off" Elder Packer's talk and did the same thing to Sis. Beck's talk.

    You won't have your picture perfect life for long.

    "What?!", you shriek, "how dare you! you narrow minded, judgemental pinhead!"

    Yes, I'll warn you again: you won't live in Eden for long. Christ said no man can serve two masters and you just chose yours by "blowing off" the counsel of a prophet, seer and revelator that as a Latter-day Saint you're supposed to sustain. Don't get ticked at me, get ticked at Christ and see how well that works...

    "And wo be unto him that will not hearken unto the words of Jesus, and ALSO TO THEM WHOM HE HATH CHOSEN AND SENT AMONG THEM; for whoso receiveth not the words of Jesus AND THE WORDS OF THOSE WHOME HE HATH SENT RECEIVETH NOT HIM; and therefore he will NOT receive them at the last day; And it would be better for them if they had not been born." - 3rd Nephi 28:34-35

    The choice is yours, but God's caravan detours for no one.




    "

  • re:Wicked
    Aug. 10, 2008 7:24 p.m.

    Do these words mean anything to you?

    Judgemental, arrogant, self-centered?

    I think these are all "sins", and therfore someone with these traits might also be considered wicked.

    Just something to think about.

    re: Glenn Foley | 2:58 p.m.

    I would suppose that when you suggest that "Sisters, know your place.", most of them know exactly where they are at.

    I would guess that "you know" where their place "should" be, but it is not up to you, or me, or Sister Beck to tell anyone where their place is.

    Isn't it the gospel plan for all of us to figure that out for ourselves?

    I appreciate Sister Beck's "advice and counsel", but other than being just that (has her talk been made a doctrinal cannon yet?) I think the rest of us should listen, she how and if it afects us, and look to the Lord for guidance, follow his promptings, and get out noses out of others lives -- that also means the Sunstone Group.

  • Vicki
    Aug. 10, 2008 7:24 p.m.

    There are two main reasons we are uncomfortable with someone's words. One is that the words are simply not true. The other reason is that the words are true, but inconsistent with either our current beliefs or practices. Either Sister Beck's words are inspired or they are not. To LDS women, the answer is crucial and may likely effect their eternity. I don't care if 500 or 5,000,000 people disagree with Sister Beck. I only care what God thinks about these issues. I believe it behooves each one of us to ask God. I asked and got an answer.

  • Wicked
    Aug. 10, 2008 6:17 p.m.

    To you 500 women: The wicked taketh the truth to be hard. I suggest you re-read the talk again, and instead of just reading the "Headings" you read all the sentences inbetween. If you are going to bash Sis. Beck for saying what she did, then you obviously have an issue with our prophets who have said the same thing time and again. It is obvious this talk was needed. Women who know, spend their time wisely instead of trying to tear down leaders of the church and trying to rationalize and justify their current situation.

  • Listener
    Aug. 10, 2008 6:00 p.m.

    The Deseret News should be ashamed to publish an article that so poorly represents the events it reports. This piece misquotes panelists, misspells the name of at least one, and selectively emphasizes a few minor details (such as one comment by one audience member) over some major details (such as the fact that most of the panelists are themselves dedicated mothers). That's really unfortunate--it would be far more interesting for the online discussion to be about what the panelists actually had to say rather than about reductive cliches and misrepresentations.

  • Wake up People
    Aug. 10, 2008 5:47 p.m.

    I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the responses to this article. As a male in the LDS church, I was offended at Sister Beck's talk. Women should choose the life they wish to live and not be relegated to a life of some "ideal." Just as the woman in this article with the 5 kids should be allowed to have her children and be happy with her life, another woman should be fulfilled with a life of work and education if that is her prerogative.

  • ramper
    Aug. 10, 2008 5:44 p.m.

    Re: Glenn Foley

    Appreciate your clarification and no need to apologize to me. I may add I did not criticize Sis. Beck. What I criticize is the perception that there is a "one size fits all" plan for people and their mission in life. Each person needs to find that for themselves. A person's personal relationship with the Lord and the Holy Ghost will either confirm or deny the direction others may give. There are some that may want to take the spirits place and manipulate those that think they must just follow without confirmation. That is against what Brigham Young and many other Church leaders have said. When the scriptures talk about 'unrighteous dominion' it points out 'most' in a position to do so will be guilty of that. That is a red flag for us all to be in touch with the Spirit for guidance. When we can accomplish this we will understand the wisdom and inspiration (and times revelation) in our leader's messages and how they pertain to us personally.

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 10, 2008 5:27 p.m.

    I have seen so many neglected children because of parents selfish desires. I am for mothers and fathers teaching their children to live Christ like lives. I sustain all of our leaders and know in the end all blessings are determined by our agency. Whinning and crying teaches children to be selfish and not putting faith in the Lord. Just be the best you can be. Children should be loved and nourished. Look to Christ and live.

  • Get off your high horses
    Aug. 10, 2008 5:16 p.m.

    The SAHM's are the ones who should read Sis Beck's talk and be offended.

    You push out six kids and expect everyone else to raise them.

    Please, if you are going to stay home, monitor you kids. They dig in my garden, two young neighborhood girls think it is funny to go door to door Doorbell ditching during the day, and it is repatedly told to the SAHMs, nothing changes.

    Where are the SAHM's?

    I watch them at church, kids are climping everywhere, coloring, eating food, and SAHM ignores this.

    You push them out and expect the world to raise them. Primary tachers, YM and YW leaders, schoolteachers, scoutmasters, and pharmicists with bottles of presciptions to keep them under control.

    Then we preisthood bretheren are assigned to go over during the week and clean the cheerios out of the pews.

    Be a SAHM, but do it.

    Quit being a lazy, sit at home, cookie cutter, prideful, arrogant, plastice mormon, and take Sis Beck's advice and raise your kids.

    Quitbeing indignant, judgemental and do your job.

    We would all appreciate it.

  • Wondering...
    Aug. 10, 2008 4:21 p.m.

    Are you saying that liberals and the LDS church are incompatible as well?

  • Haven't notice it here
    Aug. 10, 2008 4:13 p.m.

    I'm a BIC church member raised in the Pacific NW. I hear a lot about Utah being the depressed-mother capital of the country, but I haven't seen it in the church up here. I have two LDS female relatives who have gone on meds for depression: one is bi-polar and was that way before she joined the church, the other experienced a round of postpartum depression. In neither case did the church contribute to the problem.

    Up here, the church is my support group, my cheering section for the sometimes tedious job of being a mother. I need the church to praise motherhood because it is the only place I get support.

  • Lucy is right
    Aug. 10, 2008 4:15 p.m.

    Most of what I hear from the so-called feminists here (and there are few things in history that have harmed women more than so-called feminism) makes it clear that feminists and other similar whiners don't have the faintest clue as to the experience of men in the Church. We have strict roles and expectations and limitations imposed on us as well, but without the choice of focusing on just the home or just a career. We have to do both.

    Life is tough for men AND women. I guess the difference is that the men in the Church (as well as the truly faithful sisters) just do what needs to be done and don't waste time whining about things. Sisters, what you want doesn't matter. What God wants is all that matters.

    The LDS Church and so-called feminism are incompatible.

    It's interesting that the main women in charge of the discussion are famous apostates and professional anti-Mormons. In other words, no legitimacy whatsoever.

    For the liberal types I'll say it more simply:
    Shut up, stop whining, and quit being so self-absorbed.

  • Of course it was offensive
    Aug. 10, 2008 4:13 p.m.

    Beck's talk was obviously going to be offensive to many (including LDS women) who have dramatically changed their views on family roles and responsibilties. That is, so many in Western Society believe that motherhood is not a divine calling--but at best equal to a career, just another pursuit.

    Attitudes have shifted vastly in recent years in order to take offense at Beck's remarks. Just two to four decades ago, virtually no one would have been offended. Two to four decades ago, her comments would not have even been necessary.

  • Yes there's still 12 feminist's
    Aug. 10, 2008 4:06 p.m.

    This is the left over dirty dozen (all 12 of them) radical feminist's, left over from the Alice Paul / Molly Yard movement in the 70's till 1995, that also don't believe in Sister Beck, or even Mother Goose that is a well-known figure in the literature of fairy tales and nursery rhymes. Mother Goose is best known in the United States, in the United Kingdom and other English speaking nations. She is often prominent in Mother Goose stories, also more commonly known as nursery rhymes.

  • What the?!
    Aug. 10, 2008 3:59 p.m.

    What? There are still "feminists" around?

    Well, I guess everybody needs a hobby.

  • Julie
    Aug. 10, 2008 3:49 p.m.

    obvious | 7:44 a.m. Aug. 10, 2008

    I'm glad the Savior didn't take such an adverse reaction to His role in this world.

    I know His sacrifice was a gift to all of us, His brothers and sisters.

  • eveonne
    Aug. 10, 2008 3:23 p.m.

    It sounds like the Sunstone Symposium is a sounding board for LDS feminists with luke-warm testimonies assuaging their guilt over leaving the care of their children to strangers in pursuit of high stakes jobs. Our hearts go out to women who are experiencing economic downturns, abandonment issues, or widowhood and are thus forced into the job market--I think the Lord blesses them with extra measures of cooperation from their children and the skills and energy necessary to pull it off. Because let's face it ladies, raising children is a tough job requiring lots of energy as does an outside job. I found that when I had to work, my best went to my employer, and my family got left-overs. Important priorities like family home evening, prayers, and meals sometimes took a backseat to more engaging activities like soccor or play practice. And who hasn't, however unconscientiously, tried to buy off kids with stuff to make up for less time spent with them? The rewards of successful parenting aren't realized until it's too late to remedy, so we must go by faith and obedience to council from the Lord and leaders whom I appreciate for their encouragement and insight.

  • katherine1966
    Aug. 10, 2008 3:15 p.m.

    As always. no matter what is said we pitch a big fit to make us feel better. I listened to her talk also..found nothing offensive whatsoever. I do agree..this world would be a better place and our children would be much better off , if we could all raise them ourselves and not let day care do it. We all have different situations at home, some have to work, some choose to, because being a stay at home mom drives them crazy. She is not the first person, or even actually leader of another faith that has said we should make our children our first priority. Even James Dobson says that mothers should put their children first. I was working to put money away on a downpayment for a new boat..until it hit me...this is crazy! I quit and KNOW I did the right thing. It is easy to get carried away in this world where we are taught to be selfish and think of what makes us happy.

  • Glenn Foley
    Aug. 10, 2008 2:58 p.m.

    To: "ramper" and others who criticize Sister Beck

    I apologize for the misunderstanding of my previous statement "Sisters, know your place." I stand by my words, but I should clarify that my statement was motivated by love. I do not think that I conveyed this intention properly, so I apologize. I do not wish to demean our Sisters. But I do firmly and lovingly point out that for the good of all of us, they need to obey the leadership of the Priesthood and accept their divine role in the Plan.

    I do not appreciate the comparison of Sisters' place in the Church with the treatment of Blacks in the 1950's South. Treatment of Blacks in that era was not divinely mandated.

    Sisters, when we exhort you to "know your place" and follow the Brethren, we have your happiness in mind.

  • re:To: Mormonstuckin2008 | 1208
    Aug. 10, 2008 2:53 p.m.

    So, why are you afraid to answer my question?

    You just became indignant, took one question out of context, and danced around it, without answering.

    Many moms stay home after the kids are in school.

    They hate summers because the kids are home, send them on playdates, let them run the neighborhood and can't wait for school to start, so others can raise their children for them, and they can get back to the life of a SAHM.

    They can't even manage that (Wait til your father get's home).

    Really, if you cared so much, you would homeschool.

    Sister Beck and the church gives mom's a pass, so they can feel good about not being a productive member of society.

    I see your kids at church, in stores, running amuck everywhere. If you are a SAHM, then do it!!!

    So, I'll just ask again:

    "Why are the wives so threatened by the thought of going out and competing for a real job against other women?"

    Afraid of losing the title "Queen Bee"?

    Women need to have goals past being their husband's cufflinks, and accessory that he polishes up and takes out of the box oncein awhile.

    Where is your self-respect?

  • Willy
    Aug. 10, 2008 2:21 p.m.

    Gossip Gossip Gossip....don't you have children to attend too?

  • Janet
    Aug. 10, 2008 1:13 p.m.

    Anna, I think that was just the opinion of one person who confronted a commenter after the panel. None of the panelists suggested that SAHMs don't do important work (four of us either are or have been SAHMS!). It's unfortunate the reporter chose to qoute an interchange which didn't come from the panel and suggest it reflected our views. THat's poor reporting.

    Tuffy Parker: I don't grant your premise, which you state as accepted fact. It begs the question of how many Sunstone attenders you actually know or have spoken with. A minority may be there to push buttons/envelopes, but a large portion of us are, as the Sunstone motto suggests we do, looking for faith in understanding, and understanding through faith.

  • Henry
    Aug. 10, 2008 12:49 p.m.

    Th nose grows longer and the hips grow wider with all these tall tales...lol!

  • Anna
    Aug. 10, 2008 11:56 a.m.

    Am I understanding this correctly? It sound like many people are saying that women who choose a career as a child-care provider are respectable and those who leave their children with them to go to work are respectable, too, but those who choose to raise their own kids are slaves? No church leader has ever said anything that should create feelings of guilt or offense. Women who feel that way are doing that themselves and should seek help. If the whole world followed the wise advice of Sis. Beck and the countless other LDS and non-LDS leaders the best they could within their own circustances, many of the world's problems would not exist because families would be stronger. It is that simple.

  • Suzanne
    Aug. 10, 2008 11:52 a.m.

    Sis. Beck wasn't just speaking to Mothers along the Wasatch front. She was speaking worldwide. There are some sisters in foreign lands who may not "know" how to be an LDS Mother. I visit taught a lady from a foreign country who told me child abuse was acceptable where she came from. If you got angry, it was okay to punch,hit,bite,kick etc. and there was nothing the kids could do. She said that after she joined the church and moved to California, that she learned this was not appropriate. It wasn't because she beat her kids here and got in trouble. Her children were grown when she moved here. She said it was the teachings of the Church that showed her the error of her ways. I grew up in Utah and had a horrible role model for a mother. I'm grateful for Church leaders, who through their experience, wisdom and example have taught me through the years.

  • Screenwriter Pete
    Aug. 10, 2008 11:47 a.m.

    This conversation is ripe stuff. I think I could capture it as a screenplay, if only the Coen Brothers would agree to direct!!!

  • Sarcastic "Obvious"?
    Aug. 10, 2008 11:35 a.m.

    Hope you are! If not, you don't belong most anywhere. I am a woman....I had two children, but that's only part of what I am. I listen to men, women and children as they deserve to be listened to. Do I take all they say to heart? No...(and I'm sure they don't take all I have to say to heart).
    We are all equal...different, but equal. Anybody that says we are not (male, female, gay) etc. will not have a voice for very much longer in the world. Don't believe me? O.k....just watch.

  • to child of God
    Aug. 10, 2008 11:30 a.m.

    I agree!!! I have a similar situation. A few years ago I attended a talk given by the daughter of a prominent member of the Church. Someone asked her what it was like to have such wonderful parents. Off the top of her head, she commented, oh it isn't much different than the parenting all good LDS have. I didn't take offense because she wasn't intending to offend anyone. She just said what she thought without thinking about those who had a very different upbringing. She wasn't implying that only the faithful have good parents. Some could twist her words or take them literally instead of the spirit with which they were given. She was trying to be humble in saying she wasn't any different than the rest of us. She just happened to have famous parents. People looking for the negative will always find it, whether in religion, neighbors, spouses, floor plans, weather, you name it.

  • child of God
    Aug. 10, 2008 10:51 a.m.

    I grew up with an alcoholic step father who sexually and emotionally abused me. I don't feel badly when "I am a Child of God" is sung. I know the line, "with parents kind and dear" wasn't written for me. When I sing it I think of what kind of mom I want to be for MY kids. I'm not offended by the talks about doing what your parents ask. I relize I am not the audience they are speaking to. Sis. Beck's article wasn't written to those great sisters who are not married nor to those who are childless. I feel she was saying to the rest of us, "If your ladder is leaning against the wrong wall do something about it." I believe some of the people it bothered feel that way because God has been trying to tell them they need to improve their parenting and work on their priorities. Yes, mothering is hard work, she didn't say that it wasn't. I think she was saying that NO ONE can take the place of a child's mother in loving, raising and being there for her children.

  • Nose nose & growing
    Aug. 10, 2008 10:10 a.m.

    Some people just need to learn to MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS!

  • Happy LDS MOTHER
    Aug. 10, 2008 9:52 a.m.

    AMEN, Bear Rug.....some people just HAVE to complain. And yes, the talk was directed to MOTHERS.

  • Apply D&C 50
    Aug. 10, 2008 8:43 a.m.

    All should apply D&C 50 to the Sunstone event (and to everything else going on around them). Among other things, D&C50 sets out three criteria for testing whether something is the Spirit of Truth: (1) "he that preacheth and he that receiveth, understand one another," (2) "both are edified," and (3) both "rejoice together." It goes on to say "And that which doth not edify is not of God, and is darkness." Some of the comments here edify, some do not.

  • obvious
    Aug. 10, 2008 7:44 a.m.

    Obvious: get in line everyone. Men speak, women follow. Gee whilikers! Men know everything, women are to have babies.

    The roles were set by God and by God we will follow them.

  • history lesson
    Aug. 10, 2008 6:19 a.m.

    What many here forget is that Mormon women were feminists and that without their help, the right to vote may have been quite delayed. Should feminism diminish the role of motherhood simply because we can now chose to work outside the home? No!

  • Reality
    Aug. 10, 2008 5:50 a.m.

    I am a non-lds, master's degreed, stay-at-home mom. I hate to break this to you but it seem women beat other women up, emotionally, that make other life choices different from themselves. It will never cease to amaze me how many women, it's always women, that tell me how much I am "wasting my education" by staying at home. It's nice to read someone affirming my choice every once in awhile. I am also not surprised that other women feel the need to jump of Beck's words. Instead of this action, I long for the day when my choice is respected along with the woman that chooses to work outside the home. So long as we invalidate one another, I know that day is far into the future.

  • Arnold C. Webber
    Aug. 10, 2008 5:46 a.m.

    You know this whole thing could be resolved by the Presidency and the Quorum of 12 simply stating that Sister Beck's talk was: The will of the Lord, the word of the Lord and the command of the Lord.But they won't do it. Why? Because their image is important that they do not want to appear as being narrow minded or fanatical; so, the members of the Church are left to fend for themselves!

  • ramper
    Aug. 10, 2008 5:41 a.m.

    RE: Glenn Folly

    Your statement "Sisters, know your place", sounds like something from the 50's down south directed at another select group.

  • awesomeron
    Aug. 10, 2008 4:19 a.m.

    Oh but they are up for debate, that is part of the free will of choice that God gave man. God wants us to get the best information and then come to our own conclusion. "If you ask in Prayer, with real intent if the Gospel is True" Supposedly Smart, Men have Symposiums and spend their time befuddling each other and achieving little or nothing. Then writing Books the Rest of us ignore. The Rest of us Post. My faith is based in the Reality of what I have seen. Just like the Three and The Eight. However you have to have a seed of faith, "if you have the faith of a mustard seed then you can move mountains" I order to realize what you do see. With out that its just over your head. I admire my wifes more simple and trusting faith. Sister Beck was/is correct. All talks do not have to be pleasing to all people. The Church stresses do not beat your Wife/Husband for a Reason. Some are offended by that because they either beat their wifes/husbands ,or In their World it just does not happen. The Leaders know that in Reality it does happen.

  • Buster
    Aug. 10, 2008 1:03 a.m.

    CW | 5:15 p.m.
    Anonymous | 7:02 p.m.

    People disagree with you, so "THEY" feel "guilty" and should "repent".

    Everyone of my ancestors came across the plains, I am a CTR holder, and you are plain offensive and arrogant. Sister Beck's talk did not offend me, but you do.

    Who called you to be judge of the worl?. Why do you think you have the right to talk to people that way?

    So some women need to work. They have expained why, and you tell them they "feel guilty"?

    Live your own life. Make your choices, and just because someone thinks differently than you does not make them wrong.

    Worry about your own lives. Women do not need the guilt trips you send them on.

    re:Mary in NY | 6:49 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008
    "I don't remember hearing anything said by Sister Beck directed at single women or working women. This talk was directed at those who are Mothers."

    Sister Beck's talk was from the President of the Relief Society, the LDS "Women's" organization. Her talk was directed at all women. Splitting hairs does not change this fact.

    I can see why some feel offended. Let them own "their" feelings.

  • Paul
    Aug. 10, 2008 12:52 a.m.

    As a husband if I showed the respect towards my wife that she deserved as my companion and mother of our children, praising her and rewarding her for her efforts she would be much happier and much more successful at her chosen profession weather it is being a stay at home mom, PhD or both. Unhappy people are unhappy because they are not loved or appreciated and made to feel under valued by those they love the most. Don't blame Beck for feeling undervalued, misunderstood or pigeon holed put the blame right where it belongs demand the respect that the scriptures say you deserve ...Men love your wives like Christ loves his church... That love should extend to all women single, widowed, married and at home, married and working with or without kids etc by all priesthood holders. That is what I have been hearing in General Priesthood meeting for the last 38 years I haven't missed one. And yes I have room for lots of improvement my dear companion points out where I am letting her down.

  • toddh
    Aug. 10, 2008 12:43 a.m.

    Thanks to Taylor, (1:52 p.m.) for her or his insights. I'm going to use them in my Sunday School lesson!

  • To Yawn
    Aug. 10, 2008 12:12 a.m.

    I have read this whole topic and have this reply. It seems that many people who have posted here have had to go read the talk online. So I think your spot on in that they must have been sleeping during conference!

  • To: Mormon stuck in 2008
    Aug. 10, 2008 12:08 a.m.

    "Why are the wives so threatened by the thought of going out and competing for a real job against other women?"

    A REAL job? That's right, I forgot that birthing and raising four children through their childhood is not considered "real" work. Why? Because it's not a paying job? Because it's so mindless that any $6/hour day care worker can do it?

    Hmmm...maybe I should consider a career change. What is it that you do? I am sure that I can contribute to society (and my bank account) better by competing for a "real" job instead of raising the next generation of Americans and church members.

    Compare a child raised by day care to a child with a competent mother who chose to raise her/him. Trust me, there is a HUGE difference. My husband was raised through day care and summer camps, while I was raised by a mother. He is wonderful, but he is absolutely jealous of my childhood experiences. He watched TV, I read and did chores. Talk to the day care kids when they're adults and see how they feel about being set aside while Mom (and Dad) devoted more time to work than to them.

  • Tuffy Parker
    Aug. 10, 2008 12:02 a.m.

    Two points to consider:

    1) The Sunstone symposium is primarily driven by those who want to push the envelope for the sake of pushing the envelope rather than for greater understanding.

    2) Those who have more interest is changing doctrine to conform to their beliefs rather than vice versa, might consider attending a church without doctrine or one with is more devoted to aligning with the popular culture.

  • Kirk
    Aug. 9, 2008 11:25 p.m.

    Excellent dialogue: I still have a very hard time believing that so many people are actually awake during conference. I have listened to over 50 live conferences, even attending some in person, and it always amazes me how incredibly boring and monotonous they are. We need controversy like this in order to help us say awake during the usual, mindless dribble.

  • Another Perspective
    Aug. 9, 2008 11:01 p.m.

    Men may get "burned" at every conference, but as men they hold the priesthood and have power in the church that women don't. Many women feel very, very powerless in a patriarchal church that they love. To have the head of the women's organization (and one of the only female speakers at conference) focus on that was devastating. It was devastating because it didn't draw them closwer to God and the Savior-they felt it only spoke to one type of US mother. I think some women look forward to hearing the president of the women's organization talk-and were dissapointed when nothing she said applied to them, or it made them feel like there weren't good enough.

    Many women feel they don't have a voice in the church. The 500+ signatures was a way for them to have a voice.

  • Mormon men always in charge
    Aug. 9, 2008 10:41 p.m.

    regardless of talent or aptitude. Time for a new revelation.

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 9, 2008 10:13 p.m.

    As a single woman in my thirties, I fully sustain Sister Beck's talk! EVERY talk in general conference talks about what we should be trying to be, and the role of motherhood and being an example will never change. Does that bother me? No, simply because I know that what she says is true. Would I love to have that in my life? You bet. But I don't at all think she is saying to neglect the other things in my life because I am not married and don't have children. I have a successful career, and know that I can be an example to the people within my scope of influence everyday. THAT is something I can control right now. If you're offended by this talk, you are probably easily offended by a lot of things which breaks my heart. People who have criticisms with doctrine usually do not know the doctrines of the church all that well. Just think about it for a second. This talk is asking us to stand a little taller, why don't we all do it!

  • Darn feminists!
    Aug. 9, 2008 9:52 p.m.

    I wish they would have minded their business way back when. Then we women wouldn't have to vote, we would still be the equivalent of chattel, our husbands could legally beat us, and us and our children would be considered our husbands' property. YES!

    I am grateful for my mother and all the sacrifices she made for me. I am also grateful for women who decided that women are people, too. Being a mother is a wonderful role to fill, and I hope no one would ever look down on that role or suggest it is unworthy or not valuable. I also think it's wonderful that as a woman, there are other roles I can fill and that can be fulfilling, since my life didn't take the turns I expected.

    Seriously, get a grip. Not all Mormons are _________ (fill with stereotype). Similarly, not all feminists are ___________ (fill with stereotype). And hey, there are even...DUN DUN DUN...Mormon feminists!

  • Janet Garrard-Willis
    Aug. 9, 2008 9:25 p.m.

    transplant: That would be awesome. I'd vote for it in a milisecond.

    I find odd the pervasive notion that those of us who spoke on the panel found motherhood itself degrading. We all bent over backwards to note that motherhood is essential, that we value it, that those of us who have kids are incredibly grateful for the chance to be mamas. Saying that women are more than "just mothers" doesn't mean motherhood is bad, or wrong--it just means every person is more than one role. We wanted to look both at the role of mothers and the other roles women can play in society. That doesn't denigrate motherhood. Asserting that it does reflects shoddy thinking.

    As for Julie Beck: I wouldn't look closely at her words and their effect unless I respected her and the position she holds. Contrary to assumptions here, I'm an active and believing Mormon and SAHM. Consider the possibility that this article didn't reflect the complexity of our remarks. It doesn't. Certainly we didn't slam SAHMs--cuz hey, I am one. I'd have been really annoyed if someone had said I don't matter. Nobody did.

  • Podium
    Aug. 9, 2008 9:05 p.m.

    It seems that Sister Beck is simply a scapegoat for a podium to use for some peoples own agenda. Julie Beck has the ears of millions of people and by using her name and misconstruing her remarks, people are drawn to their agenda. I went to the Sunstone website and read one article that had 192 comments. I thought "wow, this must be a popular site". Then I looked at the names. I counted about 5 or 6 names. They were having a conversation with each other. The church is not going to change with every wind of doctrine. We all have free agency. Many of these people are either not members anymore or still attend hating the doctrine. Would they have their ammunition without attending church and listening to conference? It is their meal ticket! If they don't agree with the doctrine or hate the messages from G.C., why attend? Try writing a 20 minute talk that doesn't offend someone. I don't think it is possible. That is why Jesus was continually persecuted. I find it interesting that they are so angry with Sister Beck. Why not the LDS church in general? She is just the messenger.

  • Janet Garrard-Willis
    Aug. 9, 2008 9:02 p.m.

    I find interesting the pervasive assumption amongst many of these comments that anyone who believes women should have aspects to their identities besides or in addition to motherhood must therefore be denigrating motherhood itself. I was one of the speakers being roundly dismissed as an apostate liberal nit-picker, another assumption I find odd. As it happens, I'm a fully active LDS stay-at-home mom who thinks raising her kid is the best thing I've ever done. I thought some of what Julie Beck said was fantastic and other things were less so. Critically parsing someone's language doesn't mean you're necessarily offended or even disaffected--it means you give the person enough respect to think their words might actually matter. If I had no respect for Julie Beck or the role she plays, I'd have simply ignored her.

  • to Robert - I support Sr Beck
    Aug. 9, 2008 8:57 p.m.

    Thanks Robert, you are right on.
    You can all just read "Hold on to your kids" and some Bert Hellinger books. You'll see clearly that in many years of research it shows that mothers at home have the best outcome to raising productive adults who have an active positive part in society. The are an asset to society rather than a liability. Sister Beck was right on, she's got my support. The books by the way are from none LDS, just good old Ph.D's.

  • Wonderful Talk
    Aug. 9, 2008 8:51 p.m.

    Sister Beck, Thank you. You were right on the money with your talk.

  • Patty
    Aug. 9, 2008 8:41 p.m.

    I can't wait to read the 07 conference reports again. It must have been very inspired to receive so much opposition.

  • clarify
    Aug. 9, 2008 8:29 p.m.

    As a ward librarian a few years ago, I had the opportunity to read a priesthood bulletin that clearly stated there was NO dress code for Sacrament meeting. Young men who were blessing and passing should be encouraged to wear a white shirt, but it was not required and they should not be denied the opportunity to participate if they had on another colored shirt. When Sis. Beck said white shirt I don't think she meant it literally, just clean and pressed. I don't think she meant hair brushed to perfection either. Anyone who has fixed the hair of a small girl knows it probably won't last long. In following the spirit of her words, I take it to mean, take the time to see your kids are properly groomed for church. You'll all feel better. I've seen many Mothers cringe, including myself when a deacon passes the Sacrament in a shirt that probably was retrieved from under the bed that morning. Some Sunday mornings are just that way, especially when you're dealing with younger ones. I always felt better when they looked good and it was worth the effort not to feel embarassed. No one says we're perfect.

  • Good Ole Sun-stoners
    Aug. 9, 2008 8:21 p.m.

    They leave the church but can't leave it alone... Always gotta be steadying the ark...

  • Yawn
    Aug. 9, 2008 7:50 p.m.

    I'm just amazed there were so many people awake during Conference to get upset!

  • transplant
    Aug. 9, 2008 7:47 p.m.

    Seems this talk hit a raw nerve. I'm not surprised. However we choose our religion,or not, as adults. We always have choices. If women are not treated with respect all they have to do is leave. Churches cannot sustain themselves. If women don't go and do the unpaid service work, it's a church of cards and will fall apart.

    I have the same questions for mormons as I do for catholics. You want women to work at home why on earth do you not give them a paycheck? Why don't you mormon women on the budget committee vote for it? It would be money well spent.

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 9, 2008 7:02 p.m.

    Sister Beck was right on and those who are offended may be feeling a little guilty about their choices. I'm Utah born and have lived in other countries and cultures and find that women everywhere face the same dilemas. Being a mother is tough. Being a wife is difficult. Being single is difficult. Sometimes are options we would choose but we choose the best when we can. Those who choose selfishly probably do feel a little guilty and a little offended.

  • Mary in NY
    Aug. 9, 2008 6:49 p.m.

    I don't remember hearing anything said by Sister Beck directed at single women or working women. This talk was directed at those who are Mothers. The talk was in line with the doctrines pinned in the Family Proclamation. She did not condemn other roles that women play.
    Even during pioneer days women worked outside the home as midwives and store keepers. They engaged themselves in women's suffrage rights and were encouraged to be educated and well informed. Those that were mothers tried to be good mothers. Those that weren't played their own unique roles in the kingdom. Nothing has changed. If you were offended by the talk ask yourself why. I can't find any reason to take offense.

  • Ed
    Aug. 9, 2008 6:26 p.m.

    My wife and I waited several years to have children. During these "wonder years" we focused on our careers and financial security for our future family. What a joyous time it was to share with my spouse. However, during this time, we were also subjected to the occasional rude or ignorant comment at church about not having children. (To date, this type of ignorance has not diminished our belief in our Savior's Gospel) After making the collective decision to start our family, our first son (#1) arrived and my wife began to tele-commute, which did not interfere with the raising of #1. After the birth of our second son (#2), my wife decided to hang up her "working spurs." This was a collective decision made by loving spouses, but truly an indiviual decision reinforced by spousal support. The point being, member or non-member; respect, self-worth and definition of one's life comes from within regardless of outside influences. Define yourself and no one can take that from you!

  • re:RL
    Aug. 9, 2008 5:53 p.m.

    I can accept who "I" am.

    Why can't you???

  • A Few Degrees Off
    Aug. 9, 2008 5:41 p.m.

    First, I got a belly laugh from "Is this a typo?" cuz I didn't understand the quote either. Way funny!

    Those that signed "whatwomenknow.org" (and probably many Sunstone groupies) should consider reviewing President Uchtdorf's talk in April, 2008, General Conference called "A Matter of a Few Degrees" in which he reminds us "...minor drifts away from the doctrine of the gospel of Jesus Christ can bring sorrowful consequences into our lives. It is therefore of critical importance that we become self-disciplined enough to make early and decisive corrections to get back on the right track and not wait or hope that errors will somehow correct themselves."

    The vast majority of our faithful sisters are "on the right track" and are definitely the strength of our families and our Church!


  • Glenn Foley
    Aug. 9, 2008 5:38 p.m.

    For faithful members earnestly striving to follow the Gospel, there was nothing incorrect or upsetting about the talk. Sisters, know your place.

  • CW
    Aug. 9, 2008 5:15 p.m.

    If you are single, don't worry about Sis. Beck's talk, it is not for you. If you are a mother who is single or widow, my heart goes out to you and you are the in the Lord's priority list. If you are a mother who is able to and decides to stay home with your children, this talk should be very inspiring for you. If you are a mother who is able to and does NOT decide to stay home, that's when the issue starts. If you feel guilty about it, reconsider what you are doing wrong. If truth offends you, you are not in harmony with the spirit and the Lord's teaching. Please seek to reconsider your decisions and repent.

  • observer
    Aug. 9, 2008 5:13 p.m.

    I do not resent counsel from the General Authorities. I believe, for the most part, they are more than happy to let people think for themselves.
    What gets me are the yahoos in the ward (I don't mean a bishop, just some knothead know-it-all) who think they know what I should do, and don't hesitate to tell me.

  • Sorry
    Aug. 9, 2008 5:11 p.m.

    "Re: y'all and your numbers | 3:34 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008
    500 out of 1 million is .05%. Thats 5 out of 10000, which is not significant. Sorry."

    Each soul is precious in the sight of God.

    I watched the Olympic opening ceremonies last night with my wife. We contemplated how God can love so many.

    1.3 billion people in China.

    As of June 2008, it is estimated to be around 6.7 billion.

    Think about all the people who have previously inhabitated the earth.

    Which according to your post makes you, not that significant either...

    Sorry?

  • Nuetral
    Aug. 9, 2008 5:12 p.m.

    Everyone Tries and sway people one way or another. Isn't it our first, true impression that matters. What we've felt before being influenced by so much controversy. Thanks for everyone who posted a genuine comment, that wasn't just trying to stir up an argument.

  • Welcome to nutty JPL's world
    Aug. 9, 2008 5:04 p.m.

    to: John Pack Lambert | 3:42 p.m.

    Why do you care about SJBobkins.

    I'm active LDS, and find his ability to think on his own refreshing. I would much rathe sit by someone "real" like him in priesthood, than the othe plastic Mormons.

    Dude, raise yur own family and not someone else's.

  • A Mormon stuck in 2008
    Aug. 9, 2008 4:57 p.m.

    My grandmother canned, made everyone's clothes, darned socks and quilted.

    She also drove old cars, had an outhouse, got water from the pump, had a coal burning stove, and a broom.

    My wife doesn't need to do that anymore. We have a Smiths and a Mervins by our house.

    Different times...

    As much as I respect the advice of the prophets of old, they lived in the context of their times, and we live in ours.

    Sister Beck's talk strangely resembled the movie "The Stepford Wives".

    I hold a current recommend, but what is the fascination in the church of the "subserviant" wife?

    Why are the males so threatened by a strong woman?

    Why are the wives so threatened by the thought of going out and competing for a real job against other women?

    We listen, then as the adults in our home, make our own decisions regarding our home.

    The church is there to provide "advice", and doctine so that we can become an eternal family.

    We'll make our own choices, thank you.

    Being an active Mormon, I am always left thinking, Mormons are weird.

    Peculiar, maybe, but definately weird...

  • Clean up your own Backyards
    Aug. 9, 2008 4:43 p.m.

    I blew off Boyd Packer's "sex factory" talk, and also Sis Beck's.

    They don't pertain to us.

    My wife and I are both college educated, have children, we both work and we are home when they leave for school, and when they return. We both help them with their homework, we read scriptures and pray together, we make meals at Dream Dinners so they are nutricious, fast and easy, and we eat as a family. We don't have "Family Night", because, in our house, every night is Family Night.

    My wife hates cleaning and I hate mowing lawns, so we hire someone to do it for us. We spend that time with our children.

    I, like SJBobkins, hate white shrts, so I don't wear them and I am told by my fellow High Priest that I don't set a good example for "their" kids... because I don't wear a white shirt (like I care... are their kids going to do drugs because of the color of my shirt?).

    I have wonderful children, they get good grades, and don't get into trouble. They don't color during church and smash Cheerios into the pews.

    Worry about yourselves, our family is fine.

    CTR

  • Istvan
    Aug. 9, 2008 4:37 p.m.

    I am an LDS male and wish to thank all of you for helping me waste 20 minutes of my life sifting through the time-worn inane pros and cons of listening to the General Authorities and then justifying their own thoughts and biases.

    Read the Scriptures attend your meetings and live your life the best way you can that gives you joy and leave everyone else to do the same.

    Remember there are only two things you can take with you into the next world. Your learning (inteligence) and your genealogy--ancestors and prodigy. Everything else is a waste of time.

  • Chill Out
    Aug. 9, 2008 4:19 p.m.

    Some people will take anything said in general conference and find a way to blow it out of proportion. So what if Sister Beck said one or two things you disagreed with? Move on with your life and forget about it!

  • You go fellow saints
    Aug. 9, 2008 4:17 p.m.

    But...

    My sis-in-law, was raised LDS, went to BYU, married a returned missionary, and put her education on hold to have a faimly and be a cookie cutter wife.

    Half-way through his masters program 5 years and three children later, she thought something was weird, and she confronted him, and found out that he was half-way though his sophomore year, had a girlfriend, and they were up to their eyeball in debt because she trusted her priesthood leader in the home.

    Being 27 when the divorce was final, he kept moving around, jobs and all to avoid child support.

    Not many men are looking for 27 year old wives with 3 kids, and so she took on employment which did not pay well, but provided basic necessities, and she was working until 7:00 at night, with family members all chipping in to raise these three beautiful daughters of God.

    She did everything Sis Beck counseled, has always kept a current Tenple Recommend, and does not fit the cut-out Sister Beck described.

    Some LDS women get lucky, some get screwed.

    Before you all pass judgement, remember life throws you curveballs, and talks like Sister Beck's demean and hurt those that tried.

  • remember the one
    Aug. 9, 2008 4:14 p.m.

    Numbers, schmumbers.

    How can we reach out in love to those whose feelings are tender for whatever reason? Can we show more compassion? Can we offer a listening ear to someone who is overwhelmed in their situation?

    500 = 1 struggling x 500 individuals. Looks like the we the undershepherds could be doing some more listening.

    Not significant? WWJD?

  • ramper
    Aug. 9, 2008 4:03 p.m.

    re: Lambert
    I hope you are not saying a person cannot be reverent without a white shirt and tie. I am sure that is not what you meant. I am in a ward where members who have to work try to get in for sacrament wearing police uniforms, nursing uniforms, and some other blue collar attire because they are coming or going to work and it is the best they can do. I have seen some inner city people who do not even own a white shirt. Shame on anyone who would judge on such superficial nonsense.

  • RL
    Aug. 9, 2008 4:01 p.m.

    I found it interesting that these women expect the church to define their role, but get upset when it doesn't fit what they are currently deliberately doing, or faced with as what life has delt them. That seems sort of, well, self absorbed. Like, "you must accept me, or I'll be really upset." The fact is, the gospel is simple, and our resposibilities in it are simple. We do what we can with what we are ABLE to. Then let it go. Don't get all offended, and don't get all down on yourself. You know if you are doing everything you can or not. Do what you can when you can, then let it go. The leaders have said that repeatedly, just using different words to the same point. Talk about getting hung up on a pointless pity-pot-fest.

  • Ian Gillespie
    Aug. 9, 2008 3:51 p.m.

    Feelings of anger or confusion don't come from the Lord; they come from Satan. Where the apostles and other Church leaders are concerned, if you disagree or question something, the best option is to go to God in prayer. Ask Him, and be willing to hear and accept what he says. He will answer. He will not do anything that's not in your best interest.

  • John Pack Lambert
    Aug. 9, 2008 3:42 p.m.

    To SJ Bobkins,
    Your reaction to Sister Beck's statements about proper attaire in meetings has a lot more to do with your lack of respect than anything else.
    First, as I did point out before, the article is in theory about a reaction to a different talk than the one you mention.
    Secondly, I will never get what is so hard about wearing a white shirt to church meetings. It is true that revernce is more than dressing nicely, being quiet, and speaking softly. On the other hand you are not reverent if you do not do these things.
    Reverence is at core a respect for the Lord and his Church. People should have the common decency to realize that church is different than other things and should be treated as such.
    I think we far too often act too casually and without enough reverence in church buildings.
    It also strikes me as odd that someone who claims to be trying to reflect a personal relationship with the Lord in their actions would choose to not do something simply beause other people feel they should.

  • Re: y'all and your numbers
    Aug. 9, 2008 3:34 p.m.

    500 out of 1 million is .05%. Thats 5 out of 10000, which is not significant. Sorry.

  • PeppeRiviera
    Aug. 9, 2008 3:31 p.m.

    It is so intriguing that the DN chose to do a story on this roundtable, when it most assuredly (from the percentage of comments from readers) is a very small minority viewpoint of the issue at hand. News has truly moved away from finding the balanced truth and toward direct manipulation of what is an important event.

    If this newspaper were after the real story, and the correct reaction to the original talk, it would have 80-90% of it's article about the supportive viewpoint and 10-20% of the negative. This article is the exact opposite. In responsible journalism, the event should not have been covered without more research to find the percentage of reaction to both sides first. News writers and editors are merely entertainers, but under a subtle guise of "the facts", and articles should always be read with that in mind.

  • Karen
    Aug. 9, 2008 3:19 p.m.

    Sister Beck was calling women to be united and immovable in the cause of Christ and in defending Eternal Families. It sounds like most people did not read or listen to the talk with a prayer in there heart to understand by the spirit. This talk was inspired and very direct and clear. Please read it again and pray to understand the message. It is truly a remarkalbe message. I hope we can rise to the call and unite as women to defend families.

  • An LDS Father FIRST (not an ATM)
    Aug. 9, 2008 3:19 p.m.


    I cannot believe all of the views that people got out of Sister Beck's Talk. A wive is there to stroke her husband's Ego?

    Come on.

    Women have more to offer to this world than to act as a cuff-link on her husband's shirt.

    I heard Sis. Beck's talk, and while I agreed with it, I think in no way does it absolve the father of his responsibility to be a parent.

    I also believe that women not only have a right to recieve and education, but it a necessity.

    Husbands do die, people get divorced, and if your talking "family values" and "family preparedness", would it not make sense to have the wife prepared to step in and take over in a worst case scenario? Would the wife be better working at the quickie-mart or have an education and be prepared to step into a professional job.

    My wife has her Master's Degree, and while she stays at home, I understand that she is with me because she chooses to be there, and not because she's afraid to leave because she would wonder where the money comes from.

    I think many of you are setting yourselves up for failure.

  • Ernest T. Bass
    Aug. 9, 2008 3:10 p.m.

    Imagine that, girls like to use their brains for more than just producing offspring and ironing their husband's shirts.

  • A Greatgrandfather 31 times
    Aug. 9, 2008 3:05 p.m.

    Primary children are taught to and sing "Follow the Prophet". It sounds like too many adults never learned or forgot that! It is time you critics turned your upset inward on yourselves and "Follow the Prophet"! When you have the "calling" from God to advise the whole Church and His authority to do so, then you may be given the chance to advise us in conference. Until then you really need to "Follow the Prophet" or you will be left behind. You need to build your own testimony,and not presume to "lead" the Church. "Many are called, but few are chosen...", and you know the rest. May you strive to be "chosen" and not "critic" yourselves out of Eternal Lives.

  • Ben
    Aug. 9, 2008 2:38 p.m.

    Not a fan of Utah mormons. But sis Becks talk was wonderful. I do not see why so many women have to cry about what she said. I believe if they chose to follow the counsel their lives would be greater enriched. Sad so many mormons cry after general conference. Become a man or women. SIs Beck is awesome!

  • Betsy
    Aug. 9, 2008 2:28 p.m.

    As a single woman I felt Sis.Beck was correct. When I become the mother that is the ideal that I want to seek for. I also wonder about those who are having hissy fits what do they think they will be doing in the next life ? Not on some career path that is for sure.

  • Not Thankful Enough
    Aug. 9, 2008 2:25 p.m.

    I am an LDS husband and father to 4 beautiful children. From the day I started my professional career, over 17 years ago, my wife has stayed at home. For over 16 of those years she has been a stay-at-home mother. Some days my work hours are short, other days, they are long. Always, though, my wife, a quiet, unassuming stay-at-home mother, has worked harder, endured longer and sacrificed more than I have in "the working world".

    Anyone that says that LDS mothers who stay at home to run a household and raise children are doomed to live lives of quiet failure are, to be blunt, completely clueless.

    I'm a proud, passionate U.S. Air Force pilot who defends your great country and my Latter-day Saint wife makes me look like a sissie.

    After being married to my sweetheart for almost 20 years, I am convinced that what makes me wife so strong is her willingness to dig in and get the job (of being a mom) done and done right. I am a lucky man indeed, and as soon as I post this, I'm going to tell her so.

    The caravan moves on!...

  • Unfortunate....
    Aug. 9, 2008 2:22 p.m.

    I feel sorry for those who would like to have children but haven't had the opportunity. Children are very challenging and there are lots of menial tasks associated with their upbringing. However, I can't think of anything more rewarding than creating a living person, teaching him/her right from wrong, and seeing him/her make good decisions and become kind, loving, successful individuals. I graduated with honors from a respectable University and enjoy my occupation. However I get no where near the joy in my employment that I get from my children and spend time with them. I wouldn't sell either of my children for all the money in the world, for awards, recognition, power, or whatever. I'm making 100x the difference in my childrens' lives than I'm making at work.

    What if your mother would have chose an occupation and business success rather than having children? You wouldn't exist. People are free to make the choice not to have children, and enjoy fine dining, exotic vacations, big toys, and there free time. I don't have a problem with that. As for me and my house, we love our family!

  • y'all and your numbers
    Aug. 9, 2008 2:11 p.m.

    Please remember when you are quoting numbers that 13 million may be the stated membership, however, at least 50% are not active - 7.5 million, at least 50% are children - 3.75 million, and it's about fifty-fifty male/female - therefore, generously 2 million women active in RS around the world. The LDS church has stated there are more members outside North America, so now we're down to 1 million active women who had a possibility of hearing about the website for those who feel disenchanted. There are 500 respondents is likely more significant than you think.

    It is telling that when women have left the church or been excommunicated, especially when it is due to the issues under discussion, that members discount them automatically. Have you considered for even a moment that these women did not walk out the church doors with a smile on their face, but rather with great heartache and turmoil of conscience to walk the path of integrity for their lives? Can you scoff so easily at the heartrending decision to leave?

  • way to go, Sunstone!!!!
    Aug. 9, 2008 1:54 p.m.

    All that you Sunstone "intellectual"(??????) boo-wooers (and you wanna-be Sunstoners)accomplished was to send everybody running for their old Ensigns or to lds.org to re-read Sis. Beck's talk---to see what they must have missed that has caused all this aggrieved howling. And what did anybody discover after all that? That it is YOU who have a problem!!

  • Is This You?
    Aug. 9, 2008 1:56 p.m.

    "And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken hard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center." - Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 16:2

    I am not trying to be cruel, people, but if Sis. Beck's talk offended you, you need to make some changes in your life or at some point in time, suffer the consequences.

    Now, you must decide, are these merely the words of a fellow human being posting this, or are the words from this guy, "Nephi", the words of an ancient prophet called by God?

    Everyone must decide for themselves.

  • GUILT
    Aug. 9, 2008 1:53 p.m.

    I was in no way offended by her talk, why? b/c I am not doing anything wrong in my life. Those who choose to get offended point your finger at yourself, the truth hurts, doesnt it??

  • Taylor
    Aug. 9, 2008 1:52 p.m.

    Why don't people get it. The church was not created to express individualism. It is a vehicle to create a prefect society. A society of peace, prosperity, and happiness. This can only be accomplish if we sacrifice. Men must give up that "natural man" and become "saints". Men have to become examples to our children and not run after the world. Children need Mothers willing to sacrifice what they want for the needs of the child. This is the ultimate sacrifice we must all give to become like our Heavenly Father. He gave could have enslaved his children to do his will; but instead he gave us his life to serve us.
    If you don't like that idea of creating an ideal society (which God has asked us create), the world teaches individualism where you can do whatever you feel is right. I choose to try to create that society. I praise every woman that has the ability to be a MOTHER. That is why we must choose for ourselves what path we will follow.

  • "SJ Bobkins"
    Aug. 9, 2008 1:44 p.m.

    You are a fool.

  • Re: AM on August 8th
    Aug. 9, 2008 1:38 p.m.

    I smell a rat.

    No "real" LDS member worth their weight in salt would say that they need to "sift through the garbage presented to us" in church meetings to find morsels of truth.

    Me thinks you're a non-LDS person just here to stir up trouble.

  • One Lost Puppy
    Aug. 9, 2008 1:37 p.m.

    From one lost puppy:

    "Any thinking church member should know that the Lord doesn't really have much to do with his own church."

    Uh, what?

    On the contrary, even those who may not belong to the LDS religion, even any religion, can understand the logic that if God has a church then He'd be interested in what goes on inside of it. Otherwise, why would God have instituted it?

  • DW
    Aug. 9, 2008 1:31 p.m.

    After reading some of the misguided, feminist comments in this article, it is truly sad that a few intellectuals have such a large voice on the role of motherhood. The notion that it is degrading and that secular thinkers and career women are so much better off for expanding their horizons far beyond the realm of the home is also false.

    I work with several female physicians, none of them members of the Church, who frequently lament their choice and express how conflicted they feel for choosing a career that takes them away from their children too much. Nobody has been brow-beating them with the restored gospel their whole lives, but they seem to sense that their role as a mother is far greater than the career they have chosen. How do they know that?!

  • Re: "To I Sustain" at 4:16
    Aug. 9, 2008 1:25 p.m.

    You really think that the 500 women or so "risked their membership" by signing an on-line petition or forum about Sis Beck's talk?

    That is completley laughable!!!

    You are either an extremely in-active LDS member or you're a non-member pretending to be one.

    Puh-lease!!, quit trying to make the LDS church and its leaders look like the Nazis of WWII.

    I'm 42 years old and have been associated with the LDS faith all my life and know it takes a whopping lot more than just saying "I didn't like that" to get you excommunicated.

    And yet, to those non-members that believe "Horrors! Members can't leave Mormonism if they want to!", all it takes is a request to remove your name from the rolls.

    Rock on, Sis. Beck, rock on!

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 9, 2008 1:25 p.m.

    Wow this turned into nothing more than testimonials. This was a silly article to run in "a newspaper" and the comments are just embarrassing. It is little wonder why the culture and people of church ar continually mocked.

  • What did NOW do?
    Aug. 9, 2008 1:15 p.m.

    "Boo Hoo to you men and women that gauge your successes by the $$$$$ in your pockets. Or VP plaque on your door."

    But money put a roof over the heads of yur family, food on the table, clothes on their backs, school supplies, pays for weddings and missions, and your retirement.

    Instead of this:
    "Dads - Provide for and protect your family. Help your wives with ALL she's in need of. She has a much tougher responsibility than you anyway.

    Moms - Nurture and raise your children to be positive influences on society. Sustain and support your husbands, because you can be their largest ego inflators and they like that."

    Try this:
    Dads and Moms- Provide for and protect your family. Help your spouse with ALL they're in need of.
    Nurture and raise your children to be positive influences on society. Sustain and support your spouse, because you can be their largest ego inflators and they like that.

    My problem with the current patriarchal system in place is that it absolves fathers of providing fatherly nuturing ("Wait until your father get's home" mentality.)

    My wife and I both teach, clean, and take responsibility for our kids.

    More father's should.

  • Kicking against the Pricks
    Aug. 9, 2008 1:14 p.m.

    Do these women really think they are going to be able to change the ideal with their complaining? I am so glad my mom displayed the principles Sister Beck outlined in her talk. I have had a great life because of her.

    You do the best you can with your situation, while striving for the ideal. I think most Latter-day Saints understand this concept. If there are areas that you can change, selfish endeavors that may need to be put away in order to live the ideal, then we need to try and make those changes. One thing is certain, the lack of mothers living up to the principles Sister Beck taught is causing many problems in society today. It can have lasting effects on a family for generations. Thank you Sister Beck for teaching us principles that are badly needed in today's world.

  • Re: Travo
    Aug. 9, 2008 1:09 p.m.

    No, Sis. Beck is not the Prophet. However, when she speaks, if she (or anyone else) speaks in accordance with the promptings of the Holy Ghost, she speaks with the same power and authority of the Prophet because then she would be speaking the words of God.

    Is that not what the Lord's chosen prophet speaks?, the words of God?

    "And this is the ensample unto them, that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost.

    And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the POWER of God unto salvation." - Doctrine and Covenants 68: 3-4

    Now, who says LDS women are doomed to weakness and second-class status?.....

  • To My LDS Brothers and Sisters
    Aug. 9, 2008 1:00 p.m.

    "The time is coming when we will be mixed up in these now peaceful valleys to that extent that it will be difficult to tell the face of a Saint from the face of an enemy to the people of God. Then, brethren, LOOK OUT FOR THE GREAT SIEVE, FOR THERE WILL BE A GREAT SIFTING TIME, AND MANY WILL FALL; for I say unto you there is a test, a test, a test is coming, and who will be able to stand?"

    Heber C. Kimball, from the "Life of Heber C. Kimball", pg 446

  • God Bless "Larry in Manti"
    Aug. 9, 2008 12:52 p.m.

    Couldn't have said it better myself.

  • To Robert, the non-Mormon
    Aug. 9, 2008 12:52 p.m.

    Sir -

    I applaud you for your wisdom in recognizing Sis Beck's.

    Amen to you, Sir! Amen!

  • gentile in california
    Aug. 9, 2008 12:50 p.m.

    Paul, I don't know how old you are, but it's been forty years since the McDonald case threw out the rules that flight attendants had to be single. I have numerous friends from high school and the community who are wonderful mothers of families AND flight attendants at the same time.

    That said, I did read Julie Beck's remarks and feel they may have been misinterpreted by some. The title of her talk was not the greatest choice...had it included the phrase "to mothers who know" or "to mothers of the church", it would have been more clear that she was addressing LDS mothers, rather than marginalizing women who are single or childless.

    And rather that an attack on LDS women who are mothers and who work and who do a good job of both, the talk could also be viewed as a wake up call for stay at home LDS moms who aren't the greatest homemakers (poorly kept homes or large numbers of children lacking discipline...anyone who has been to a family style restaurant in Utah knows what I mean, you've all seen them).

  • For Camille Aagard
    Aug. 9, 2008 12:48 p.m.

    Camille -

    DON'T PAY ANY ATTENTION TO ANYONE WHO WOULD TRY TO MINIMIZE YOUR ROLE AS A FAITHFUL LATTER-DAY SAINT AND A LOVING, STAY-AT-HOME MOTHER!!!

    GOD W-I-L-L BLESS YOU FOR YOUR TIRELESS EFFORTS AT RAISING HIS CHILDREN.

    Others may rant and rave if they wish, but stand strong, sister, stand strong!!!

    God bless you in your righteous endeavors as a Latter-day Saint woman and mother.

    Regards - Dan Maloy
    Enid, OK

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 9, 2008 12:45 p.m.

    I never thought Sis. Beck's talk would be taken the way it has or that the family would be attacked like this, by no other than some of the women in the church. When General Authorities give talks about certain topics, I believe some of them do not apply to me, personally, or at that specific stage of my life. It is the same in this case. If you are not a mother, then don't worry about it. If you are a mother who is single or widow, the Lord has great rewards for you, and quite frankly this is not directly for you. If you are a mother who is able to and decides to stay home with your children, then you would greatly benefit from this talk. If you are a mother who is able to and decides NOT to stay home with your little ones, then this talk may not be pleasant to hear. If you are offended by it, I encourage you to read "A Proclamation to the World" and compare it with her talk and notice if there is any difference. Pray about it. I hope those who were offended by it will seek repentance.

  • I did stay
    Aug. 9, 2008 12:40 p.m.

    "I Did Leave" wrote: "It's interesting and sad that some in your church will say 'this is from "God" if you don't like it...leave'. Oh really? Does that sound like "God" to you?'

    I'm sorry you did leave, but that was entirely your choice. I'm glad you've found a level of peace in your decision.

    But I think what Jesus said was, "Come follow me." He didn't say, "Hey, only follow me in those things you agree with, but if perchance there's some areas where we disagree, well, what the heck, that's OK. Go ahead and ignore my advice and it's still OK."

    I'm reminded of the young man that came to Jesus and asked him what he should do. Jesus told him to keep all of the commandments. The young man said he had kept them all from his youth. Jesus told him to then sell all his possessions and follow him. But the young man put his head down and walked away.

    Using your philosophy, I suppose the young man was just fine in what he did?

    No one said he was bad -- he just didn't do everything he was asked.

    It's not always easy is it?

  • What?!?!
    Aug. 9, 2008 12:39 p.m.

    Quote: "Margaret Toscano, a professor of classics at the University of Utah, said.....the backlash reflects the idea that it's more acceptable to question women's authority than men's in the church."

    What?!

    How in the world did Margaret Toscano ever get that?

    I've heard Sis. Beck's talk and that idea wasn't even close to being in there.

    Offenses....if you want to find them, you will.

  • Confused
    Aug. 9, 2008 12:32 p.m.

    OK I'm a man and as such perhaps I do not understand what this is all about. Ladies, just do what you want to. Ultimately this is all up to you not Sister Beck, not the church hierarchy, not anyone but you. If you do not want to feel undervalued then don't feel that way. Pursue a career or be a stay at home Mom. But decide for yourself and don't wait for someone to tell you it is OK. The church is based on revelation. Go get your own. All this whining only reinforces the notion that women cannot think for themselves. You do not need someone else to tell you what to do or validate your decision. If you want your own life then take it. Don't ask someone to give it to you.

  • ramper
    Aug. 9, 2008 12:14 p.m.

    re: Brainless Intellectuals

    You may or may not be right. But, this site, like others, is for comments. People have a right to comment. It is something people do every day in many ways. Sites like this can enlighten, or anger, or make you laugh. I don't think that is a bad thing. Freedom of expression is fine. So is freedom to agree or disagree. I would never consider myself an intellectual. I am just getting use to being human. Besides, who could qualify as an intellectual? The best definition I ever heard was: "Anyone who can listen to the William Tell overture and NOT think of the Lone Ranger."

  • Laughed Until I Cried
    Aug. 9, 2008 12:11 p.m.

    I just checked out the Sunstone Symposium. I at first thought it was a BYU thing, clearly not. I was then interested in the serious issues they address so I visited their website. When I came across their earth shattering article, "You can be a Mormon and a nudist" (I am not making this up)I realized the whole thing is just a joke. The sad thing is there are 500 of the arrogant left who do not see the joke.

    Forget "You Can be a Mormon and a Nudist." How about "You Can be a Mormon and a Wierdo." These fringe members seem to suffer from delusions of normalcy.

    Still laughing.

    Canadiandy

  • Canadiandy
    Aug. 9, 2008 11:46 a.m.

    A male supporter of this group called a mother who chose to stay home with her children a slave? Try saying that to my wife and she'll thump you through the window of your smartcar faster than one of these ladies can hyphenate their last name. Sounds like hypocrisy lies beneath.

    Oh yeah, I checked out the list of signers on the site, the ones in my area are the same ones that complain about anything church leaders have to say. They don't have issues, they have the full subscription.

  • Re: SJ Bobkins
    Aug. 9, 2008 11:44 a.m.

    Yep...you were serious.

    You clearly did not LISTEN to the message. Out of all that was presented you came away with men must wear white shirts??? Then you make the grand canyon sized leap and obnoxious overreaching comment that Sister Beck is on the road to becoming a "RS nazi" and refer to her as a "loose cannon"???

    Sounds like you're on a road...


  • John Pack Lambert
    Aug. 9, 2008 11:31 a.m.

    to bigjn,
    You forget that not all of these 500 women are neccesarily in the church. Janice Allred is no longer a member, and is probably among the top ten most guilty people under the catagory "Evil Speaking of the Lord's anointed". She along with Lavina Anderson has formed an organization dedicated to exposing church leaders for committing "spiritual abuse" whatever in the world that is.
    Margeret Toscano has also been excommunicated. So that is at least 20% of the presenters are not part of the 13 million plus members.

  • John C.
    Aug. 9, 2008 11:07 a.m.

    This is one of those clear examples of "God would do what I do if He just had all the information."

  • My choices
    Aug. 9, 2008 10:52 a.m.

    I grew up with a stay at home mother who was the epitome of Mormon motherhood - great grandaughter of Utah pioneers, she baked bread, sewed, canned, did her genealogy, kept a clean house, taught Primary, Relief Society and homemaking classes, you name it she could do it. And plenty that a man could do too. I grew up wanting to be like her - I never wanted a career, couldn't think of career that would more fulfilling to ME than that of wife and mother.

    I have been fortunate enough to marry a man who wanted me to do whatever would make me happy, and while we will never be rich (or upper middle class either), I've been lucky enough to be able to stay at home most of our marriage since our first child was born. I chose this - and I am supremely happy with my choice. I home school, I pursue hobbies, I work hard at keeping our expenses down and I do a lot that other people pay others to do - so I figure I contribute a lot financially as well. I pity the fool who calls me a slave or mindless idiot. :-)

  • Hackbart
    Aug. 9, 2008 10:43 a.m.

    We men get semi-annualy beat up for pornography, gambling, not doing our duties, mistreating our wives and children and whatever else we apparently need to hear...still going to church and trying to be better and I suspect that 99+ percent of the women in the church are even trying harder than that and without having to be called on the carpet. The church would be worthless without the ladies.

  • To: 18 Year Old Mother
    Aug. 9, 2008 10:43 a.m.

    You ROCK, Woman!! That is what motherhood is all about: doing, being, becoming, learning, sacrificing, creating, loving. Way to go!

    My mom was a first-time mother at 20, with "only" two college years under her belt, yet she is one of the most intelligent women I know. Just because a woman becomes a mother at a young age doesn't mean she leaves her brain at the door of the hospital delivery room.

  • Family
    Aug. 9, 2008 10:34 a.m.

    It seems obvious why the Proclamation was important. The world is attacking families. Having a family may mean postponing some opportunities for some. That is a sad fact.

    Of course it is hard not to be able to do what you know is the most important thing in life is. All that other stuff; careers, degrees, publications, hobbies, Church callings, whatever, is just there to facilitate something more important - or then to provide some uplifting experiences.

    No argumentation changes the fact that parenthood is the most important project in our lives. Unlike marriage, parenthood only has a window of 15-20 years to really make a difference (often much less). Why not give it your best shot? That is what sis. Beck's talk was about.

    Because, face it, your degrees and colleagues won't come visit you when you're 90 and can't get around anymore. Your kids will, if you gave them what they needed.

    And notice: All this said without using the words "woman" or "man". It is equally true for both. Make your own application and quit kvetching.

  • I just re-read Beck's talk
    Aug. 9, 2008 10:22 a.m.

    What bothers me is the fact that Beck seems to cookie-cutter the sense of a woman's purpose in life.

    Contrary to what Beck appears to think, WE ARE NOT ALL ALIKE. There are some women who happily bear numerous children and thoroughly enjoy staying home, house-keeping and caring for the children. Some women don't want, or can't have, children, and enjoy having a career. The largest number (like me) both want to bear and care for children AND pursue their careers. All are valid lifeways, and I support the right of each woman to choose the path she wishes to follow.

    Beck implied that only the first of those three kufeats is valid and worthwhile. By her comments, she demeaned the hopes, desires and wishes of a large number of the people she is supposed to represent and, in the process, invalidated the women woho don't fit her perception of what a woman is supposed to be. That set my teeth on edge.

    Sad.

  • It was a good talk for
    Aug. 9, 2008 10:20 a.m.

    those it applied to. Unfortunately, there are mothers that would be sensitive to it because they possibly cannot spend enough time as they would probably like. This is due to financial obligations and is becoming more and more common. We need talks like this and also talks to inspire and help women who are struggling.

  • Paul
    Aug. 9, 2008 10:20 a.m.

    This story is not newsworthy. The Desertnews is trying to make something on nothing. I just reread Sister Beck's talk. It is inspirational and beautiful. My wife loves and values her time raising our six children. She graduated BYU and loved her job as a flight attendant when we got married. She joyfully quit her job to start a family. I love how my wife values the sciptures over material possessions and careers. She is a beautiful example to our four daughters and everyone she meets. Her flight attendant friends tried to talk her out of quiting by telling her a career, money, status, glamor were more important than children. These women looked forward to going home each night to their tiny dogs dressed in clothes, gay partner or lonely misery. Words can not describe the beauty and joy a family and children can bring in this life and the eternities. My wife knows there is an eternal influence and power in motherhood and nothing in selfishness.

  • Larry in Manti
    Aug. 9, 2008 10:20 a.m.

    The great "sifting" is increasing and the malcontents surface with even greater fury.....those not willing to yield their hearts to the Lord and his marvelous plan look for worldly justification and human validation for what is lacking in spiritual guidance. They let go of the iron rod and succumb to those who mock from the great and spacious building. We see the prophecy of 1 Nephi chapter 8, and also chapter 11 being played out again and again in the world today....and evidenced by comments and blogs that ensue from the malcontents at presentations such as the SUnstone etc. Kudos to the many who are holding fast to the rod as evidenced by the many great comments made here. As for me, the Holy Ghost confirmed and carried Sister Becks words deep into the fiber of my soul just as it has on numerous other occasions including Sister Nadauld's amazing talk given several years prior. Hold to the rod....be worthy of and hold to the guidance of the spirit....not lulled away by the carnal mind. Yes the Lord's great sifting is hastening it's pace. For the pioneers....a physical trek...for us a spiritual trek...who will respond with commitment and endurance.?

  • From an LDS MAN @ 4:27 8/8
    Aug. 9, 2008 10:11 a.m.

    Amen. This is about maturity. Make your own decisions, women. If they are right, it doesn't matter what anyone says.

  • To BEAR RUG by Jacqui
    Aug. 9, 2008 10:04 a.m.

    Amen, sista (or brother)! I was going to write the same thing: this talk was to MOTHERS. And there are plenty of well-educated, intelligent, driven women (myself included) who CHOOSE to be MOTHERS. How absolutely insulting to be told you are a slave and you don't even know it (by being a mother). I have a few words for that person, but they are mostly four letter words, so I'll keep them to myself.

    I, personally, cried throughout Sister Beck's talk (what, does that make me some kind of feminine wimp?). I felt totally validated that I was doing the right thing for MY family: raising MY OWN children. Not everyone can do it, but I can, and I was grateful for her words.

    So lay off, all you feminist Nazis. Make your own decisions, pray about them and with your answer, move forward. It doesn't matter what anyone says to you then, does it? But be prepared if the answer is not "go to work," but instead "care for your own babies." Your answer may change at times in your life, but if it's "stay home," then bless the soul who chooses the vomit over the money.

  • Paula Cook
    Aug. 9, 2008 10:01 a.m.

    Corinthians 7; 34 There is difference also between a wife & a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body & in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, & that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction. Those that don't have a job are also supposed to place more time on walking with the Lord, which includes children, but if your heart isn't to raise your children with love & understanding, then wouldn't it be better to allow those that can hold that position to raise your children & for you to get a job?

  • She that hath ears to hear...
    Aug. 9, 2008 9:59 a.m.

    Sister Beck is inspired as much as any other General Authority and we would do well to remember that.

  • Sunstone--touch it and weep
    Aug. 9, 2008 9:59 a.m.

    Members (or partakers) of Sunstone WANT to be angry. All the time. Their power comes from fomenting anger and offence-their own and others. If there isn't currently something to be mad about, they'll re-hash something. There are a lot of members of the Church that have genuine grievances and righteous indignation. Those in Sunstone try to convince EVERYBODY who will listen to their vitriol that they should be LOUDLY grieved and offended. "Stirring up hearts" is their mission.

  • Lynette
    Aug. 9, 2008 10:00 a.m.

    Amen to "Bear Rug."

  • Archived video
    Aug. 9, 2008 9:58 a.m.

    I just listened to the archived video to see what the fuss is about...I have to say, I thought that was a fantastic talk. There have been some great remarks supporting this talk so I don't have much to add except I sustain Sister Beck.

    PS What a jerk who called her a slave. Are you kidding me?! I hope he wasn't a member.

  • Allison
    Aug. 9, 2008 9:57 a.m.

    Thank you Sister Beck, for your powerful voice for what is RIGHT. If you follow what sister Beck stated, your lives will be happy. Period. If you don't, you will look back with unhappiness and sadness.

  • Confused
    Aug. 9, 2008 9:55 a.m.

    Anyone who bases their "value" and "self-worth" on what they do in the work place misses the point of why we are here, regardless of whether you are a man or a woman. This conversation always boggles my mind. Although I work at a prominent law firm in NYC, I do not view myself as a lawyer. That does not define me or give me a sense of self worth. It is simply what I do to fulfill my God-given role as a father and the provider for my family. I am a member of the church, a husband and a father first. Everything else I do is ancillary to that and intended to bolster my ability to fulfill these God-given callings and my present and future church callings.

  • It's lots more than 500
    Aug. 9, 2008 9:42 a.m.

    Do you know how many people there are in the world? Only a small number of people think/or will think like you. Thanks for helping those you can, but please remember you have also alienated people when you believe everyone needs to think like you.

  • Brainless Intellectuals
    Aug. 9, 2008 9:39 a.m.

    The problem with these types of discussions is that they are based on the one real issue that disturbs the self appointed intellectual -- they feel they are being ignored. To those who think of themselves as so very bright, having the ability to disect every mortal thought and then offer up their own "more enlightened" view, I can only ask, where is your humility. He/she who is truely wise bridles their tongue because they are wise enough to recognize their mortal intellectual limitations. (sent by remote - please excuse typos).

  • becks
    Aug. 9, 2008 9:33 a.m.

    I am saddened to see the response to Sister Becks' talk. Her words were those of comfort and inspiration to me. She has been called by a prophet of God to help lead the women of the earth and particularly those of the church. The doctrines of the LDS church are not up for debate by it's members. One cannot accept some of the church's teachings and not others. Sister Beck didn't teach anything new; everything she said has been taught by other church leaders throughout history. I think sometimes we're looking for a fight and a validation to the things that we do. When ever we are offended by the teachings of the leaders of our church, we need to take a step back and determine why. If we feel good about our decisions then there is no need for offense. But for those of you who are members of the Church...support your leaders! Their job is not easy and they are required by God to say the things that He would have them say. Take your issues up with Him, not Sister Beck!

  • Thankful husband and father
    Aug. 9, 2008 9:13 a.m.

    From my "narrowminded" perspective and limited experience (1 wife) I applaud my spouse for her choice to be a mother. She could have been a great many things and successful at them all. But, she chose to be a stay at home mother. As I watch the skill and love she has as she raises our children I marvel at her success. Of all my assets my children are the greatest. Her long hours of devotion to increase their chances of making good decisions in a wicked world please me greatly.

    A friend of mine in her early 20's had a record deal that would have ensured wealth and fame due to her amazing talents. She "chose" to walk away from it to become a mother. She knew that pursuing either wealth or fame would have greatly compromised her ability to be the wife and mother that she wanted to be. I applaud her. I admire her. The world could learn great lessons from her.

    Sister Beck was simply trying to provide council along those lines. Motherhood is one of the greatest privileges available to mankind.

    I applaud all women who get that fact and do their best!

  • arc
    Aug. 9, 2008 9:02 a.m.

    Sister Beck's talk should have been given at the General RS Conference. If it had, there would have been less problems. It wasn't. It was given where husbands, wives, children, singles, etc. were listening. In many cases with extended family.

    I listened to the talk at home when it was given. I left the room and went to listen to it somewhere else.

    I was not going to listen to it in the same room as my wife and visiting mother-in-law.

    I have been listening to GC talks for decades. I have never felt like this before or since. The Proclamation on the Family has comments that discuss individual situations. Perhaps Sister Beck can learn that from reading it again.



  • I did "leave"
    Aug. 9, 2008 9:01 a.m.

    But I sometimes look at blogs to catch the latest things being said. It's interesting and sad that some in your church will say "this is from "God" if you don't like it...leave". Oh really? Does that sound like "God" to you? I have found peace in another area and in no one religion, but with the good that many religions have. I feel that I have "God" with me. I don't feel that with your church. Stop judging people.

  • Svoboda
    Aug. 9, 2008 8:47 a.m.

    When we lived in Texas my daughter's 9th grade teacher asked her class - who did they want to be when they grew up. My daughter said, "I want to be a mother and stay home, raising my children, and supporting my husband." She was the only girl in the class who wanted that. So who is raising the next generation? Seven dollar an hour people at daycares?

  • ellen
    Aug. 9, 2008 8:45 a.m.

    In my experience, women who needed to work outside the home to provide the basics for their family have always been blessed to have great kids. These Moms are supporting their families, not a lifestyle. Their kids are their number one priority regardless of their work schedule and the Lord blesses them accordingly.

  • Me too
    Aug. 9, 2008 8:06 a.m.

    On occassion I hear my local authorities or the General authorities speak, and I get upset because they clearly don't understand my situation.

    After I take a step back, reflect, and evaluate myself, I ALWAYS find that I am being prideful and in need of making corrections in my life.

  • Adawg
    Aug. 9, 2008 8:05 a.m.

    I was bouyed up to read the conviction of so many to the principles of the Proclamation while reading the comments. My wife and I both majored in Family Science at college and read much literature that showed the affects of mothers not being there physically or emotionally for their children. Personally I feel that parents who aren't willing to sacrifice their personal ambition for a while to raise their children probably shouldn't have them. There is a tradeoff between the what is best for the children and a parent's selfish desires. I have realized that I can't pursue some ambitions because I have children. That sacrifice makes me love them so much more. Women who are willing to put off their ambitions for a time to be there for their children are my greatest heros. "Greater love hath no man than this that he layeth down his life for his friends" Women who are willing to give up a part of their life to raise their children have that greatest love as they are laying down their own intersts, career pursuits, and their lives, as child rearing is so encompassing, to bless others and they will be rewarded.

  • Steve
    Aug. 9, 2008 7:36 a.m.

    Lots of rebellious sisters out there, eh?

  • Shawnie
    Aug. 9, 2008 5:38 a.m.

    It takes very little character to be offended, to be mal-content and noisy and find fault with someone's words. That is what our culture has gravitated to. It takes a lot more character to stand up for an ideal that is worthwhile and not in keeping with the conventional thinking of the day. You think they didn't "know" there would be a backlash? I wish I had a mother like the one described in Sister Beck's talk. It would have made a world of difference.

  • ramper
    Aug. 9, 2008 5:30 a.m.

    Re: Peter
    Your comment that women need to understand and accept their role sounds like the Taliban. Maybe understanding and accepting their mission in life would be more appropriate. Which, by the way, applies to men also. We all need to recognize our gifts and use them where ever the spirit leads. Personal revelation is just that. There are too many who judge others by their own perceptions. Too many who like to hold mirrors up to others instead of turning it around to see their own imperfect reflection.

  • James Econe
    Aug. 9, 2008 5:20 a.m.

    This address was a typical E. Benson, M. Peterson, B. Cckonkie talk expressing the Church leader's views but
    without them having to admit to ii and the flock is left with same question of "Is this doctrine or not?"

  • SJ Bobkins
    Aug. 9, 2008 4:55 a.m.

    Yes, I have faith, but not blind faith, I follow but I also think. I have tolerance and enjoy the differences in others. Ms Beck has in mind a stereotype that many women can't match or don't wish to, yet those women are wonderful Christ-centered saints.
    Conference talks are/may be edited after the fact. If something said in a talk can or has been misinterpreted, a "new" talk is given with a cough track added. I find that somewhat disingenuous because at no point is it noted, when that talk is published or placed on a CD, that it is edited and not the original comments. Church leaders, as time has gone on, have dramatically changed views on birth control, (in 1910 Jos F. Smith stated that any attempt to limit a family size was falling into the hands of the devil), women working, college education and careers for women. Folks it's not doctrine but opinion. When Jos Smith stated there were men living on the moon, it was his opinion. When BY spoke of Blacks invalientcy in the preexistence, it was his opinion. They are mortal men, and women. Folks WAKE UP and think.

  • John C.
    Aug. 9, 2008 4:33 a.m.

    I always love people who think that Gods laws and doctorins are up for debate.

  • Amaricor
    Aug. 9, 2008 4:25 a.m.

    I am reminded of the scripture that states,"The wicked take the truth to be hard, but the righteous love the truth." You decided where you stand......

  • awesomeron
    Aug. 9, 2008 1:18 a.m.

    Perspective: We do not know!! Its called Name but No Game. Have you ever been to someones house and they have said "I am Mormon and I Smoke/Drink/ Drink Coffee/Tea, Beer, and am not active, nor are my wife and kids" 2 Generations back to find a Priesthood Holder to give a Name and a Blessing. However the Baptism at age 8 will take place, even though 6 1/2 years of Sunday School has not taken place. To Busy for conference and shop/work on Sunday, but where "Mormons." Pro Choice "but where Mormons" etc. Perhaps they are those people.

  • Re: SJ Bobkins
    Aug. 9, 2008 1:02 a.m.

    Are you really serious?

  • Travis Marshall
    Aug. 9, 2008 12:56 a.m.

    I've listened to her talk numerous times and every time, I'm imspired to be a better father and more in struck by the porfound everlasting influnence of a Mother on everyone in her family circle. If you have one focus on the Savior then your life is simplified!
    Because we can not do it on are own, we have to say alot of little prayers for help everyday, and rule by gentleness and meedness and longsuffering and love unfeined, or we have no power or influence. Raising kids can definantly be trying to any person.

  • Great Talk!
    Aug. 9, 2008 12:51 a.m.

    I am so grateful for the talk and my friends and I agree that it was a great talk. Her counsel has only helped our marriage and family!

  • to sister Aagard
    Aug. 9, 2008 12:44 a.m.

    I am very sorry that man told you you didn't know you were a slave. That was such a rude comment to make to you. That person needs to learn about respect. He has no right to offend just because you didn't agree with him.

    Know that what you are doing is the right thing. You don't need anybody to tell you that. And also you shouldn't let anybody to put you down. Just wait until the Second Coming and we will see who was right.

    I am a working single mother of two and I've always counciled young mothers to treasure and spend every minute they can with their kids. I've had some success in my job and it could've been more but I've always put my kids first and I have never regreted a second any of the sacrifices I made for my kids because I DO know that my kids's success in life as good children of our Heavenly Father will be my success. That IS my career goal in life. Job is only the means that I have to support my family.

    It's time to give the right priority to things.

  • compare
    Aug. 9, 2008 12:36 a.m.

    I don't know any other organization in the world where women are viewed with such high respect as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So before anyone starts to complain how badly done by they are by the Church, look around and compare to see if anyone else sees the value of women and their possibilities for good as this Church.

  • Brigham Young
    Aug. 9, 2008 12:23 a.m.

    said..."He who takes offense when no offense was intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is usually a fool."

  • anonymous
    Aug. 9, 2008 12:23 a.m.

    It's not always easy to follow the gospel of Jesus Christ. Even the best of us have to make some difficult choices in order to be saved. In the bible, Christ told a young men that he must sell everything he had and follow him. The boy was sorrowful, but he had a choice. It's not always easy for women to stay at home. It's not always easy for a man to go to work either especially in this world of two-income families. I used to be fearful that I would not be able to support my family. But I have been blessed. My wife is grateful for the opportunity to stay home with her kids. And anyone who has the nerve to tell her that she is naive or a slave who doesn't know what's good for her, is an extremely condescending and arrogant human being. Such individuals would advocate policies that induce individuals to make decisions that are "for their own good." How arrogant to think that you know better than them. The LDS church is not a cafeteria. Our country is based on freedom of religion. Gripe all you want. Nobody is making you do anything.

  • Jane
    Aug. 9, 2008 12:07 a.m.

    So does this mean that us that are homemakers get to throw a fit the next time someone talks about the wonderful women who work outside the home. Should we be offended every time Hillary Clinton talks. So there is one little talk that comes from the other angle and all you feminist have a stroke, while we have to put up with the other side of the story every day. calm down

  • Barlow
    Aug. 9, 2008 12:06 a.m.

    I felt the talk to be wonderful! In fact, I think I will download it and listen to it again.

  • Thanks Mom
    Aug. 9, 2008 12:07 a.m.

    Thanks Mom for staying home and being there for me. There when I woke up. There when I came home. There when I went to bed. Maybe it wasn't so glorified in your circle of friends, but they are all gone and the rest of us remain...grateful children for your commitment, love and sacrifice.

  • Anon808
    Aug. 9, 2008 12:05 a.m.

    Sister Beck was/is right even if in my family, my wife works and I have taken care of the 4 kids now all grown. I have taken great flack for this from time to time, but it is a choice we made way back in the beginning and for good reason. I have earned money over the years in many different was, to include Foster Care. Also being a 40% Disabled Vietnam Vet. About three years ago I went back to School and obtained my College Degree. We believe that the kids should be raised by their parents and do not believe in Day Care although a Baby Sitter and Relatives from time to time are okay. Like many people we do not fit Sister Becks or for that matter the LDS ideal, but that does not make Sister Beck Wrong nor does it make us Wrong. It is just the way it is and has to be. The same as it is in many cases. My wife is a very active mother and is on the Mainland on Vacation with the Two Youngest 19 and 17, both 2008 High School Grads, Seminary Grads, going to College etc.

  • 18 year old mother
    Aug. 8, 2008 11:54 p.m.

    I converted to the LDS church as a teenager. My first baby was born when I was 18, my last at 44. I loved being a mother!

    How did I stimulate my children intellectually? I could read and I wasn't lazy! I studied. I took them to plays, art galleries, zoos, meetings, concerts--even opera. They went on magazine interviews. I homeschooled five of them.

    I also sewed, canned, quilted, upholstered, studied antiques and decorative arts, bred and trained prize horses, and remodeled and restored houses. All this was learned AFTER I married. For 9 years, I was in charge of building Habitat for Humanity houses. I did fund raising, publicity, recruited volunteers, and started what became a thriving thrift store. I published magazine articles and co-wrote two LDS novels.

    There was time to help one son overcome dyslexia. My Downs son has read the Book of Mormon and is a service missionary. 3 children have Bachelor's degrees, 3 have Master's degrees, and another was valedictorian of his law school.

    My daughter, daughters in law, and I appreciated Sister Beck's talk! We've "worked" outside the home. Our most important "work" is in our homes!

    Sunstone--stop invalidating us!

  • Sister Beck
    Aug. 8, 2008 11:54 p.m.

    Thank you for your talk and testimony.

  • Anon
    Aug. 8, 2008 11:50 p.m.

    I'm one of the women who many of those complainers think is a non-thinking moron, dumb, unintelligent, slave mom. Thanks a lot. That's a pretty mean judgment. Actually, as a stay-at-home mom, I've been free to read a lot more books than I ever had opportunity to read while I was in college. And working with my kids is a whole lot more challenging and rewarding than my career was as a single woman, or my worldwide travels. And serving an LDS mission, and learning a foreign language before I met my husband, while immensely satisfying, can't compare to motherhood and being a wife. I've seen both sides. And it's motherhood that has opened my eyes to the essential elements of happiness and fulfillment. I found nothing to criticize in Julie Beck's talk. She was right on.

  • Robert
    Aug. 8, 2008 11:35 p.m.

    To ... Do you know Julie? Yes or no!

    I don't understand your post - have you got me mixed up with someone else's comments? I don't know Julie; however, based on what she says, I have the utmost respect for her; she seems to be the epitome of a great mother. I don't understand your "lack of compassion" comment? I don't think she is looking for compassion (or needs such) because none is necessary. I don't see any "anguish" in her comments, just good advice to all mothers. I often hear "Prozac" comments about Mormon women due to having many kids; as the son of a mother who had 10 children, I find these comments very insulting to all women - Mormon or not.

    I've heard several talks from President Hinckley over the years regarding a man's obligation, responsibilities, and duty to his wife and children (and for Mormons, his church); everything he says (like Julie) is absolutely correct. I'll have to look up the talk you mention; however, this talk (Julie's) is one I'll never forget because it is perhaps the best I've ever heard about motherhood - I keep it here on my laptop.

  • Mother of an anti-Mormon
    Aug. 8, 2008 11:33 p.m.

    It was very hard to have my daughter leave the church. She has only one child, that is all she can handle. She has stayed at home and focused on her daughters needs. But for this young mother, who stayed at home and worked some on education and has put off getting a career that would be of intellectual gratification, she has it right.

    She finds it foolish that women will have a career and then have children, at the time when a couple should be enjoying being grandparents, they are raising babies. My grand daughter will start pre-school this year, my daughter is looking forward to working.

    My daughter may not "believe" in the church, but she choose to stay at home, they had one car, no neighbor kids around, they didn't eat out or buy things, and because of that, mom could be at home.

    On the other hand, my step-daughter works full time, has two under the age of three and her husband is not working, he took one class this summer and will take 12 easy credits, they are in the church, wait, the church is supporting them. She should be at home, not him!!!

  • two year olds
    Aug. 8, 2008 11:29 p.m.

    I've worked with women in the Church whose knee jerk reaction to just about anything is negative. They don't express an opposing opinion after giving it some thought. It's just no to everything. They remind me of two year olds. It's as though nothing is valid unless they thought of it first. Thankfully the vast majority of women are not like this. They will express a valid opinion after thinking about it. I suspect many of those who are offended by this talk are those type of women. They see negative in everything and waste no time letting everyone else know how they feel. When I heard this talk I knew there would be fallout. Too bad, it was a wonderful talk and the message was very important.

  • Anonymous mom
    Aug. 8, 2008 11:23 p.m.

    to I sustain 4:16 PM Aug 8:
    Sorry to disappoint, but, no, no, NO; no one scans the Conference addresses for preapproval unless a speaker (particularly a foreigner) requests it, for catching grammatical or doctrinal errors, or for translation purposes. In fact, I have seen talks set aside and replaced, impromptu. Amazing, isn't it! General Authorities know the doctrine, and so does most of the membership, which is where General Authorities are drawn from. That's why uproars such as the one over Sister Beck's talk do so little harm. She was speaking to women who "know." Any others would do well to try to understand what she was talking about.

  • SJ Bobkins
    Aug. 8, 2008 11:19 p.m.

    Ms Beck is making a name for herself as a loose cannon. Many men who heard her conference talk which made it clear that a white shirt is a necessary part of a "proper" male dress for church services, can't stand to wear one. Her clear statement that Mormon wife or mother needs to insure every male wear such white shirt or she is somehow inadequate in her capacity, is NUTS, I will never wear a white shirt to the block again until this "tradition" is labeled as such.
    I suggest Ms Beck stick to women's issues and attempt to show more understanding and less labeling. At this rate she is well on her way to becoming the RS-nazi.

  • veedub
    Aug. 8, 2008 11:11 p.m.

    I wonder if anyone here remembers when Pres Benson gave a talk with a similar theme. It was even made into a pamphlet. The uproar then was similar to the one following Sister Beck's talk. At the time I thought it was a reaction to a man (although sustained as a prophet) telling women how to live, but I guess it goes deeper than that. I'm sure Sis Beck was disheartened by the personal criticism she received when she was simply trying to lift up those mothers who are sacrificing much to stay with their children. I'm sad for her, but I have no doubt she knows what she said was the truth. Prophets' words are often rejected, sadly by those who profess to sustain them. (And yes, she is a prophet(ess) in the same sense that anyone can be who receives revelation in regards to her calling.)

  • samhill
    Aug. 8, 2008 11:10 p.m.

    It is interesting to witness all the talk about "women this" or "men that" with simultaneous criticism of Sis. Beck and/or the LDS church and its doctrines regarding different sex roles as being "depersonalizing".

    What laughable hypocrisy.

    How's bout simply accepting that each person, male or female, can choose their lives for themselves. They don't intrinsically, by virtue of their sex, owe allegiance to the sexist orthodoxies of feminists, or religious doctrines, or political parties, or anyone/thing else but themselves.

    Thus, if they choose to listen to and follow the advice of Sis. Beck, or Gloria Steinam, or even the presumptuously pejorative prejudices of some self-righteous stranger who declares them to be unknowing slaves, they can rest assured that they are being true to themselves. Self-assured authenticity is the only true source of self esteem and fulfillment.

    Do what YOU think is right. Do that long enough, especially when you find out you’re wrong, and eventually you will be right.

  • to "Do you know Julie..."
    Aug. 8, 2008 11:02 p.m.

    I believe you totally misunderstood what I wrote. I am extremely concerned for my sister and those like her who can't give themselves credit for all they are doing a great job at in raising their families for the expectations they feel they aren't meeting.

    I apologize for anything I may have written that tweaked you to feel sad other than I hope LDS women can move away from beating themselves up for not meeting the myriad goals they are given to strive for.

  • AC
    Aug. 8, 2008 11:02 p.m.

    In response to Emily Bentons comment that My success isnt a grandchild, Im an LDS father of two and I feel that I have two roles that are paramount to any others and are all parallel those of any female in the church. These roles include being a parent and being a spouse. It doesnt matter to me what I accomplish outside of these roles, if Im not successful in these 2 first. My success is my family, my kids, and my grandchildren and Id hope that my wife feels the same!

  • Waah
    Aug. 8, 2008 11:01 p.m.

    500 people offended, millions in agreement. Who cares what this handful of crybabies says? The talk was awesome and obviously pricked some consciences.

  • Jo-Anne
    Aug. 8, 2008 10:58 p.m.

    Sister Beck you have my love and support.

  • okieobserver
    Aug. 8, 2008 10:58 p.m.

    Instead of 'whatwomenknow', the site should be 'mainlyutahwomenwholiketowhine'...and please, skip the quotes of Margaret Toscano, the biggest whiner of all. Good grief.

  • Eric
    Aug. 8, 2008 10:55 p.m.

    10% - 10% - 80%

    Ten percent of the people judge others (..."she has too few children", "too many", "is single because...", etc.).

    Ten percent get offended and judge not only the ten percent as being judgmental but the remaining eighty percent.

    Okay, so I do not not have a scientific study to back up my numbers, but the point is: stop judging, stop being offended and, if you are going to judge people as being judgmental, leave the eighty percent out of it.

    FYI - a symposium brings the eighty percent into this "controversy". If you are judged unfairly, bring it up individually with the person doing the judging.

    No unfair judgment delivered by Sister Beck, only love and doctrine.

  • Debra Odekirk
    Aug. 8, 2008 10:46 p.m.

    To Robert 4:30 p.m.
    Your sister is measuring herself by her own measuring rod. She is comparing herself to others.
    The common ploy of the adversary is overdoing the gospel or underdoing it, never a happy medium. Jesus taught, 'moderation' in all things.
    The General Authorities talk of balance in our lives and other councels as we work "toward" perfection.
    We sometimes only listen to part of what they say.
    Your sister just needs to do the "best she can" and know the Lord loves her.
    I know. I've been there. I do the best I can and ask the Lord if I am where "I am" supposed to be following his plan for me.
    She will be a lot happier if she will councel with her Bishop and get help from the LDS social services. It really is the plan of happiness. We make it so much harder than it is only because we simply don't ask the Lord to "help me find the way" and "teach me all that "I" must do" to live with him some day.

  • Mother who knows
    Aug. 8, 2008 10:26 p.m.

    I just re-read the talk. What's all the fuss about? Some people just like to look for trouble. You find them in every organization, including the church. They all need to get a life.

    It was a wonderful, inspiring message and there is nothing in it to complain about. Basically it said, be a serious mother and a good homemaker. Wow, that's really offensive!

  • SS
    Aug. 8, 2008 10:20 p.m.

    Didn't hear the talk, but didn't Brigham Young tell women of the time to become educated, and become doctors, etc. Motherhood and fatherhood, assuming you have those jobs, are more important than the day job, obviously, but I don't see why women should not have other things on their plate. Sometimes kids are 24/7, but then they hit the point where they are not, and mom has some extra time. What is she supposed to do, sit idly by and wait for kids and dad to come home?

    Don't want to ignore the LDS cultural attitudes either. We were getting it when we had only one child, not by choice but people assume we put "the world" ahead of children. It was asinine, and very hurtful to my wife. After we adopted children, boy how attitudes changed. There are those who need to quit assuming that because you are childless or have few children you are living wrong. Who are you to say what God's plan is for someone else?

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 8, 2008 10:10 p.m.

    Quit whining. It was a great talk and those who are offended by it need to think again.

  • INDIANA
    Aug. 8, 2008 10:01 p.m.

    I sustain the Lord's prophet who, under the direction of the Saviour called a woman to be the leader of the world wide Relief Society.

    No reasonable individual would even remotely think that anyone would get up to give a talk to millions of women worldwide without first asking in sincere prayer what the Lord would like to have said to those women.

    Chill women and get a clue. Wife and motherhood first then the other things after. When we die and stand before the bar of Christ at judgement, he is NOT going to ask about our bank accounts or schooling or much else. He is probably going to first ask us about our treatment of our spouse and our childrens. The first questions will be about families and relationships. Prepare for that, not some educational quiz. Oh, He may ask how you feel about your treatment of called and sustained Church leaders, especially if YOU sustained them...

  • Debra Odekirk
    Aug. 8, 2008 9:55 p.m.

    To Women Leaders:
    I heard a talk on chasity by President Hinckley several years ago. He was right on with the consequences. From one who was chaste to one who was not and repented, he knew.
    Our Savior never experienced divorce but he knew the hilt of rejection and depression.
    These are prophets of the living God our Heavenly Father and He knows all and reveals His will to us through them.
    Those living in Taiwan and South America or where ever who have the Holy Ghost, they know what the Prophets are saying. "My sheep hear my voice"
    Whether by His voice or by the voice of his servants, it is he same.

  • Jess
    Aug. 8, 2008 9:53 p.m.

    Sister Marie Hafen, in a talk to the students at Ricks College, told the women that "before you become someone's wife or mother, be someone." The message is clear. Sister Hafen is a talented, educated woman and could be successful in any field she chose, but when her children came along she realized that motherhood was her most important role and she used her training and talent and abilities in raising good children. When my children got married I counseled them: "When the children come along, Mama stays home." Even though my daughters and daughter-in-law all have degrees, they've followed that counsel and are raising good children themselves. Though it's difficult and trying, they see that their children need them so they ignore the sophisticated mockers who delight in belittling their sacrifice. There are eternal and earthly rewards for their consecrated efforts.

  • A Proud Mother in AZ
    Aug. 8, 2008 9:41 p.m.

    I am a Mother of four children. They are grown now and I am proud to say I was in the home with them every step of the way. For a time I had to work to help out, but I made sure the kids came first. That sometimes meant working the night shift at a hosptial. Life can be tough, but the most important thing you can do as a mother is raise a righteous and responsible generation to the LORD!!!

  • Debra Odekirk
    Aug. 8, 2008 9:39 p.m.

    If Jesus Christ were at the pulpit in the Conference Center on October 2007, He would have said the same words Sister Beck said. It takes the Spirit,the Holy Ghost, to know,see and hear things that are give by the Spirit.

  • bigjn
    Aug. 8, 2008 9:37 p.m.

    500 women sign a petition and D-news and the few attending Sunstone think this is a firestorm in a church with 13+ million members.

  • Dubya
    Aug. 8, 2008 9:35 p.m.

    God bless you Sister Beck! You are a hero. On par with Esther, Ruth, Hannah, and others. Thanks for not backing down in the face of criticism from the guilty wicked.

  • LDSreader
    Aug. 8, 2008 9:35 p.m.

    Given there are over 3,000,000 women in the LDS Relief Society, and over 6,500,000 girls and women in the LDS Church, why is it that Deseret News chooses to give "500 women" composed of misfits and apostates such a large podium upon which to spew their hatred towards LDS women and culture? Why is it your report allows their propaganda to go unchecked that these hate filled women represent many, or even a plurality of LDS women?

    Pardon me, but let me do the math: 500 women out of 3,000,000 is 0.016% of LDS women. One-tenth of 100th percent is a "large firestorm"? "Big trouble"?

  • Thank you
    Aug. 8, 2008 9:34 p.m.

    for the reminder that some of us aren't welcome in the LDS church. It makes me sad to see the LDS principles I was raised with are often not present in this online forum or in the attitudes, words, and actions of the members. I appreciate those who voice their opinion and support without name calling or telling those who might disagree to get over it or leave. I have always been quiet about those things I wasn't sure about or disagreed with, because I didn't want to make others uncomfortable or to think I was a bad person because I thought differently about some things. I have felt on the outside for a long, long time, but not any more. Thank you for showing me the door.

  • Anna McIntire
    Aug. 8, 2008 9:23 p.m.

    The first time I heard Sister Beck's talk I was so thrilled to hear the straight talk to women. It was in NO WAY offensive, but directed to the sisters who are MOTHER'S. I found her talk so encouraging, even though my children are all grown and married. We are women who hold a standard and are supposed to be equal with the brethren. And we ARE. But there are women who feel less than, and beat themselves up over it. It tells more from the comments about the writer's who complain than it does about the content of Sister Beck's original talk. To quote another reader, and a priesthood holder, THANK YOU. I agree:
    "True success is measured by the fruits you bear in society whether those fruits be spiritual, children, humanitarian, foster care, etc... Loving our neighbor, that's what counts."
    I remember when I was first a single mother, Pres. Benson gave a talk especially to the Sisters, I was a working mom, but his consideration and words of support were needed. My children turned out, yet I had six children still at home. I was blessed.

  • Not offended
    Aug. 8, 2008 9:18 p.m.

    Julie's talk was spot-on. Motherhood, as a "career" is not the same as secular careers. If you undertake motherhood (either on purpose or by accident) you need to rise to the occasion and do your best so your family can be its best. The ramifications of doing motherhood right or wrong can affect generations, literally.

    People who get easily offended at this notion need to look beyond themselves and see the bigger picture. I've got a degree, have marketable skills, but I CHOSE motherhood. That doesn't mean I won't use those skills again; it just means my priorities have changed, and I'm not less of a person for it. If motherhood isn't in your cards, then the talk doesn't apply to you and the energy spent being offended by it is wasted.

    And speaking of wasting time, I hope Julie Beck hasn't wasted a second of her time worrying about all the thin-skinned criticisms. It seems some of society can't work fast enough to dilute motherhood until it becomes just a watery, imitative form of day care. Julie emphasized its true importance, and that kind of honesty and honor toward the work of motherhood is in short supply.

  • Allison in CT
    Aug. 8, 2008 9:18 p.m.

    If you are offended by her talk, then you need to change something in your life. And its most likely your attitude.

  • Mental health
    Aug. 8, 2008 9:15 p.m.

    I want to add my thoughts on the idea that Sister Beck's message (and others like it) are detrimental to women's mental health.

    First, I believe we can balance assessment and change. I have experienced the exhilarating feeling of understanding what is maintaining confusing personal problems. Sometimes a "diagnosis" makes so much sense! At the same time, I have found that clinging to an explanation for my problems has been a major obstacle to considering suggestions for how I might (*need to*) improve my behavior. Sister Becks talk focused, as do many messages given by LDS Church leaders, on possibilities and prioritiesissues that demand serious, honest appraisal and action. Some talks focus more on change than othersfor example, take Chapter 5 of Alma in the Book of Mormon. And I think they have value.

    Second, some of us may have difficulty integrating progress feedback in a productive way. There is just no perfect way to deliver these messages. We cant prevent the worrying, or the thinking that change has to be somehow more taxing than perhaps it does. Some emotional support may be needed. Thats okay. These are growing pains, and well worth the price of being taught moral values.

  • Allison
    Aug. 8, 2008 9:15 p.m.

    Because of all this stupid hype I went back and read her talk on the internet. No where in her talk does it say that a women's only job is to have and raise children and she's worthless without children. It says lds women should DESIRE to have children and our primary ROLE is to raise and nurture them. Notice the key word: ROLE, not job. No where does it say that you HAVE to stay home all day and cook and clean and do laundry. She says we should be the best homemakers...and however you accomlpish that is up to you. She doesn't say: you have to be a homemaker by doing this and this. We have our free agency to be the best we can. My best is different from everyone else's because we are all unique and the church and most importantly, the Lord recognizes that. If women and men are finding offence, then you are reading WAY too much into her talk. We are only required to be the best that we can be. NOthing more. If you feel you are doing your best as a mother/wife/lds women in the church, then you probably are.

  • John Pack Lambert
    Aug. 8, 2008 9:11 p.m.

    After reading through this I have realized there is a confusion. Sister Beck gave the talk "What Latter-day Saint Women Do Best: Stand Strong and Immovable" in the Relief Society General Meeting. This is what the pane discussion was in theory about, and at least Ms. Toscano's comments were clearly an attack on it, although also built around a mischaracterization.
    Sister Beck also gave a talk in the Sunday Morning Session of General Conference entitled "Mothers Who Know". This talk also touched on some of the same themes. Yet she specifically addressed the issue of women who are unable to be mothers in this life.
    On a side note I had to laugh when the person suggested that woman leaders of the church have no experience outside Utah. Sister Beck was raised almost as much in Brazil as in the United States. Her first counselor, Sister Allred, is a native of El Salvador, and has lived in at least five different countries at various points in her life.

  • Anne Abrahamson
    Aug. 8, 2008 9:12 p.m.

    I just want Sister Beck to know I fully appreciated and loved her talk - I will always remember it forever! I was so inspired that I quote it frequently to my missionary son in Denmark. I raised 7 children and I was not a perfecr LDS mother - I did my best and the Lord filled in the rest....

  • mmm
    Aug. 8, 2008 9:04 p.m.

    Both sides are worth listening and understanding. Ultimately, whatever our reaction is, we can get down on our knees and address the owner of the answers. When we are concerned with what our personal role or life should be, we can pray and know from direct source. It is commendable to be engaged in a good cause, and the wise woman knows how to obtain knowledge and peace. Let's make sure we have obtained wisdom from above before going to the battlefield.

  • isis
    Aug. 8, 2008 9:00 p.m.

    I think that women have a hard time being heard and validated in any patriarchal order. D&C 121 states that it is the nature of almost all men that when given some power, they will abuse it. (paraphrased)
    We have been taught incorrect principles for so long over the local pulpit and in our own homes. The principles of MAN, not God. God knows who we are, what we contribute, and that we have power to form the world of the future. Fear in the hearts of men, of intelligent, independent women causes problems such as this. Women who are in the role of mother, full time, part time, double time, need reminders that what they do is valuable. It would be the easy way for many mom's to leave the raising of our children to others and justify it very well. from the mind and heart of an intelligent, independent, open-minded lds mother of 5...I say the easy way isn't always the best way. I would be dissatisfied with anyone else mothering my children. They are an extension of me. I care for them as myself.

  • SZD
    Aug. 8, 2008 8:55 p.m.

    Please...read the talk - again. Where did Sister Beck beat up on mothers or any woman for that matter? Quite the contrary! Those of you who took her talk in a negative way must not understand that in using the word "SHOULD", Sister Beck was probably complimenting Mormon women.

    You probably took it to mean OBLIGATION or DUTY as in You should send her a note.

    I took it to mean PROBABILITY or EXPECTATION as in They should arrive at noon.

    As a Mormon woman we have inspiration, blessings, covenantial power from on High that makes the probability and expectation a pretty strong likelihood. Get your minds, hearts and facts right women, and don't take offense - even if you "think" you heard the truth. Sister Beck is watching out for you and yours!

    PS: Have somebody tell you the story about the woman at Heathrow airport who bought a package of biscuits (cookies) and thought the man sitting next to her ate them! Sometimes our perspective is all messed up.

  • Enter Name
    Aug. 8, 2008 8:48 p.m.

    "the wicked take the truth to be hard."

  • Katlynnelore
    Aug. 8, 2008 8:48 p.m.

    If it had been me in the hall, and was told I was just a slave, I would have completely agreed. Then, I would have replied, tis far better for me to be a slave for my children, then my children be a slave unto me. In life, something always has to give.

  • Do you know Julie? Yes or no!
    Aug. 8, 2008 8:43 p.m.

    to Robert,

    "Oh, but every mother in the LDS church is being judged by Ms. Beck's words and is judging herself."

    How is this any different then talks given to men about the very same subject and how we should be good husbands, fathers and rear children in good homes.

    "I worry for her mental health as her anguish in not measuring up continues to plague her. She's a good mum in my opinion, but according to the stick she's being measured with she fails on several fronts so she beats herself with it."

    You have no compassion for others and I hope your sister doesn't reads what you have written. What kind of person are you? Beck's talk was one of the most compassionate and said women should STRIVE to be better mothers, better wives and better persons.

    I'm sure you would take issue with Ballard's talk too "While women live in homes under many different circumstances-married, single, widowed, or divorced, some with children and some without-all are beloved of God, and He has a plan for His righteous daughters to receive the highest blessings of eternity."

    I can't speak for women but reading your post hurt my feelings.

  • John Pack Lambert
    Aug. 8, 2008 8:41 p.m.

    To jrccmsmom,
    I completely agree with your sentiments. I did not hear Sister Beck's talk, but I read it today. She talks about so much more than being a mother.
    People need validation of motherhood. Many people fulfill that role in many ways. Some of the best mothers I have known were mothers of adopted children.
    To Lucy,
    You do have a good point, and I do not think any group would dare have a forum on how horrible it is for church leaders to speak against pornography. However there are people who attack the church leaders for their position on homosexuality, which is a behavior that probably has twice as many male as female practioners.
    It should also be noted that Margeret Toscano, one of the presenters, has been excommunicated. I can not say about the other four, but this is not exactly a good sample of LDS women's views on these issues.

  • NM Parent
    Aug. 8, 2008 8:38 p.m.

    What a pathetic article written only to get people stirred up and read the DN. These people must not have anything better to do with their time than to be part of a useless panel as described in this article. I support and sustain the church leaders.

  • Tai H.
    Aug. 8, 2008 8:39 p.m.

    Janice Allred is an apostate.

    All this article did was give an apostate a place to speak and vent.

    Who cares? Drop the subject.

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 8, 2008 8:34 p.m.

    Sister Becks Talk was a landmark talk. One of the best talks ever given to women. It was a companion talk to Elder Oaks talk of that same conference, Good, Better, Best. He also mentioned some points about todays families that some might have taken to be hard. Those of you who are a part of this website and are participating in criticizing your leaders...do you realize what you are doing? You are not a law unto yourselves. Say what you want, do what you want, but the Lord is in charge and His leaders will say and must say what He commands. If you have a problem don't point your finger at His servants, look in the mirror.
    Sister Beck is the leader for these times. EVerything she said was right on the mark.

  • Mark
    Aug. 8, 2008 8:15 p.m.

    And so the "WAR" goes on.We know "one third" of the heavenly host lost their opportunity for further progression because they supported the wrong cause. Let us then understand, all who now live will be partakes of a universal reseruction, thanks be to our Lord and Savior, JESUS CHRIST. But only those who keep their "second estate" will have "eternal glory added opon them". Lets seen now, what are those conditions again?

  • Larry Holmes
    Aug. 8, 2008 8:13 p.m.

    Funny. I've noticed over the past couple of years that the Church has greatly increased its emphasis on the wider spectrum of interests women choose to pursue now. If I was a new member, I would have noticed that at least half of what is shown on KBYU-TV, for example, clearly emphasizes women's roles in all aspects of living. I first noticed this when the BYU-TV sports broadcast schedules became almost entirely about women's games! I was ill, which required that I stay down for a long time,and I could not read or surf. So I watched TV a LOT. I became frustrated when tried to watch "classic games", expecting to see games I remembered from times past. Imagine how thrilled I was to find that, instead of a thrilling ball game with Notre Dame or Pitt etc., the "classic" game was WOMEN'S LACROSSE, or one of the other thrilling battles between BYU women and amazons from obscure junior colleges in Australia! If I wanted to watch men's games, I'd have to get up at 5 am on saturdays! This is a trivial example but it DOES represent a general trend by the LDSChurch to recognize women's expanding roles.

  • Hurray for Sister Beck
    Aug. 8, 2008 8:13 p.m.

    I am sure that Sister Beck knew that many would take her talk to be a difficult subject. I don't know her, but I am grateful that she took her talk to the Lord in prayer and gave it. I am an LDS working mom and I do not fit in with the "ideal" any more than most of the women I know. But, I do understand the pattern of happiness that the Lord has set out and that given better circumstances, I would have been thrilled to live the ideal better than I am able to now. One thing I HAVE noticed is that women are their worst enemies and create divisiveness comparing themselves to other women. They create much of their own heartache by wanting to be recognized for all the work they do (paid or unpaid). This talk was for women and not men. And so she did not include the ideal for men as well. Of course men and women both nurture their children. I am grateful I do not have her calling. But, 500 names does not come close to the number of women in the church. Keep it up Sister Beck. I sustain you.

  • John Pack Lambert
    Aug. 8, 2008 8:13 p.m.

    I find it hard to believe that many of these people actually read or listened to Sister Beck's talk. Sister Toscano miscaraterized what Sister Beck said. She never said that people outside the church are universally enemies of the family, she said that the people in popular culture who try to teach about womanhood deliver a false message. If people get their views on womanhood from Brittny Spears and the like they have issues.
    Beyond this, speaking about family was only one third of Sister Beck's talk was even about the family. She spent a whole third on preserving the family and a third on providing relief. She never said that woman should not work outside the home. She never directly addressed the issue of women working.

  • Women Rule!
    Aug. 8, 2008 8:05 p.m.

    If anything, the MormonChurch seems to have forgot the old by true saying, "The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world."

    They've also forgot that unlike their break off sect theFLDS, we live a modern, enlightened and democratic world where woman can't be simply relegated to mysoginistically imposed rules because some 'authority' says so.

    The world we live in today moved way beyond the inquisition a long time ago.

  • Sunstone, eh?
    Aug. 8, 2008 8:07 p.m.

    Pure intellectualism and sophistry.

  • Southern California
    Aug. 8, 2008 7:46 p.m.

    And as usual, "the guilty take the truth to be hard." By the way, ALL General Conference talks are approved before they are given. So the Brethern DID know exactly what she would be saying.
    The morality in this world has decayed beyond belief. I wonder why??

  • ChainSawHarry
    Aug. 8, 2008 7:45 p.m.

    Intrigued by the "uproar" caused by this talk, I went back and listened to Sis Beck's talk, TWICE. I saw nothing offensive, or incorrect in her words, or inconsistent with the Gospel teachings.

    As a man with a less than perfect marriage, I know the sting, the pain and the "Eternal Uncertainty" when one views their life against the perfect models of the Church, but as Sis Beck was quick to point out, "eternity is a long time." I believe a lot of us will be able to achieve lives closer to the perfect model in eternity. I suppose that is where Hope and Faith enters in.

    As for me, I will continue to listen and adhere as best I can to the counsel of the leaders. Knowing that every blessing will fall into place at the appropriate time and place.

  • Walt
    Aug. 8, 2008 7:24 p.m.

    Sister Beck is inspired and correct. The seditious members who believe they know better than the leadership of the church should either learn obedience and humility or start their own church. In every dispensation there are those who think they know better than the Prophets. Womanhood is sacred and cheapened by feminists and the unfaithful.

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 8, 2008 7:21 p.m.

    As an educated, intellectual, stay-at-home AND work-from-home mother, I was completely inspired by Sister Beck's talk. For me it was a clarion call to stand a little taller, and to reflect on the enormous importance of nurturing and teaching my children in love and righteousness. My children cover the spectrum of mental ability and each presents unique challenges, but regardless, each child needs to be spiritually grounded. I find I am able to meet their spiritual needs when I am spiritually fed myself; likewise I can meet their intellectual needs when my mind is intellectually stimulated. There is nothing wrong with taking time to nuture myself as an individual, and I think much of the controversy comes down to the erroneous assumption that in motherhood we must all run faster than we have the strength, or until we have no more strength. "Women who know" are swift to tap into that higher power, that unfailing source of strength, and find that the seemingly impossible tasks of motherhood are not so impossible after all.

  • Think about it Anonymouse
    Aug. 8, 2008 7:09 p.m.

    "How can a girl that starts being a baby machine at 18 with no education intellectually stimulate and teach their children?"

    The same way that any other mother at any other age can. By pursuing excellence in family, education, community, church, etc.

    We do educate people in this country. Just ask any 18 year old. With dual enrollment some 18 year olds can finish at least two years of college.

  • If I were the adversary...
    Aug. 8, 2008 6:59 p.m.

    The best way to destroy individual souls would be convince them that their righteous pursuits to follow the Savior somehow enslaved them and instead would convince them that it was more important to "free" themselves to pursue worldly accolades.

    Male or Female, the strategy is the same, but the tactics are a little different. I personally applaud Sis. Beck for praising and supporting righeous mothers for their efforts to make important contributions to their families, wards and communities.

    Fortunately, the Spirit teaches the Truth. All of our hearts were pricked upon hearing Sis. Beck's counsel. Some have chosen to follow those promptings and some have become defensive.

  • Men mtg
    Aug. 8, 2008 6:57 p.m.

    The reason I like General Priesthood meeting so much is because the speakers tend to say it like it is, rather than couch their language in fluff.

  • to Women "Leaders"
    Aug. 8, 2008 6:52 p.m.

    I would bet that Sister Beck has much more world experience than you, including living in Brazil for an extended period of time.

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 8, 2008 6:50 p.m.

    First, as a LDS male I can't claim I understand the LDS female experience. But I can say this: LDS guys are given a lot of expectations too. Not going on mission in this culture is -not- fun. Nor is the feeling of having one's life mapped out: marriage, kids, life in suburbia and church callings, etc... all while living a rather strict moral law. All while imagining myself as one of those older guys I don't quite associate myself with.

    Then I decided to stop be acted upon and decided to start acting. Pressure and expectation is everywhere, especially in the church. But it is and was mostly of my own creation. Doing anything without developing the true desire to do so is a recipe for misery.

    God knows we are finite beings and can't do it all. But I don't think we should cripple spiritual ideals such as missionary work and motherhood just because those ideals sometimes cause pain and sometimes are unachievable by very definition.

  • I will Read it Again
    Aug. 8, 2008 6:48 p.m.

    I heard all the conference talks and now I am motivated to read Sister Beck's for re-assimilation. By the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

  • Fishing for support?
    Aug. 8, 2008 6:44 p.m.

    It seems like women are just looking for support for choosing fame, fortune, and prestige over having more offspring? Church leaders can't support this worldly view because it is a direct violation of Gods eternal plan. Even for those who can't have children they are still under the commandment to "seek first the kingdom of heaven"; Men and women both make great sacrifices to raise a family so it's not a one way street.... So quit whining!

  • Sarah
    Aug. 8, 2008 6:42 p.m.

    I'm a young single member of the church, never been married, never had kids, and I found Sister Beck's talk to be excellent. It was one of my very favorite talks in Conference that session.

    I heard a talk once, and I don't remember who it was by, but I'd like to say President Packer. He said that oftentimes when you feel the Spirit, it goes hand in hand with the stinging of rebuke. That's not to offend, that's to let you know that spiritually, you're not pointed in the exact right direction. You may be close, but each of us will always have things we can work on.

    Some people will constantly look for offense, no matter what the intent is. Sister Beck didn't say one word that was out of line with official church doctrine. Everybody has different circumstances, that's why the Lord takes your desires into consideration along with everything else.

    I think people just really need to get over themselves. Just because you think you've been offended doesn't mean you actually have been, and just because you think you're right doesn't mean you actually are. The Lord, however, is always right.

  • Whiners....
    Aug. 8, 2008 6:14 p.m.

    I think Lucy 5:25 said it best.

    I've been taught all my life by the church that we should do the best we can at whatever worthy cause we are engaged in. Eductation, civic leadership, church responsibilites, and YES... even parenthood.

    It's true, children do better if mom stays at home with them, check the research. Sister beck wasn't out of line for saying what she did. But...based on the article, and some of the comments, it seems that there are a lot of people out there who don't have a clue what the church REALLY teaches or this would be a non-issue.

  • breanna
    Aug. 8, 2008 6:16 p.m.

    Sister Beck speaks the truth. I have an LDS neighbor (I don't live in Utah) who is an embarassment to the church because of her poor parenting. She has a large family and doesn't discipline or supervise them and the neighbors are disgusted and upset. The LDS mom just figures because she has 8 kids, she entitled to allow her kids to run wild because she is overwhelmed and others just need to be understanding. The problem is that it isn't socially acceptable here to let your toddlers roam around outside for hours on end, vandalizing flower gardens and generally getting into mischief. Sadly, the ones who need this talk the most don't see it that way. All the while they are misrepresenting the LDS family and the way it should be. Not perfect, but strong and loving and an ASSET to the community instead of neighbors celebrating when they move away. (That actually happened.)

  • Nancy
    Aug. 8, 2008 6:15 p.m.

    It takes faith to believe the LDS churchs A Proclamation to the World that concerns the family and a mans and womans role within the Lords church. Ive always believed that the Lords commandments are a recipe for a happier life. On the other hand, we have free agency and we can choose to disobey those commandments or the words of His Prophets and reap the consequences of those actions. Ive been a working mother out of necessity, but Ive worked part-time the last 5 years; however, circumstances have changed financially and I recently gave up my job to be a stay at home mom. I dont think I was very available to my children when I worked because I often came home tired. Therefore, I look forward to being more available to my family in many capacities. I think it is a temptation to pursue a career, I used to have one; but I love my family and can see how being home can bless and protect them in many ways. For instance, being able to supervise them while theyre on the internet is a big one. My joy and blessing is seeing my family succeed and their happiness.

  • A Mother
    Aug. 8, 2008 6:15 p.m.

    Sister Beck's talk was directed to one segment of women in the WORLD not just women in the church: mothers. All mothers everywhere could benefit from her wisdom and advice. All women, not just mothers, could benefit from the message of her talk by realizing it was meant to uplift, encourage, and enlighten. Those of you who are troubled by this talk need to take a look at why it troubles you so, "For the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center."

  • Chris J.
    Aug. 8, 2008 6:10 p.m.

    I'm always amused when people state that having children 'erodes' who they are.
    What a conniving, slanderous, false statement that is!!

  • Grandma
    Aug. 8, 2008 6:06 p.m.

    I would strongly recommend everyone read a most wonderful talk by Sister Sheri Dew titled: "Are We Not All Mothers?" in the November 2001 Ensign. Sister Dew was Second Counselor in the Relief Society General Presidency at that time.

  • kayla
    Aug. 8, 2008 6:05 p.m.

    The one sister in my ward that I heard complaining about this talk is notorious for always taking the opposing view. I served in a presidency with her and no matter what anyone else suggested, she would always knock it down. Some people feel they need to play the devil's advocate. I just chalk it up to their personality and let them deal with the aftermath of being known as a troublemaker.

  • Esther
    Aug. 8, 2008 6:04 p.m.

    I have been on both sides of the housewife issue-my first husband pretty much demanded it of me(non lds) no matter how I felt-I had no kids.I felt like I was a slave held captive-but....when I remarried,it was a great joy to me and I loved being home and with the step kids as well.I also worked a bit.Everyone has thier own style-their won way of doing things.No one ever fits a mold entirely..and those who feel they need to need to rethink on how valauable and really loved they truely already are. You are special...and doing the best you can and follwing your heart.That is all that's needed.

    I know that it is not a "formula" for all...but sister was speaking to those who needed to hear it to help them define themselves IF they needed to hear it.No one can speak to every need out there among women.I am sure she did not mean to do that. I am now a single LDS woman and I am very happy. As a single LDS member I feel supported,empowered and uplifted by my church and my men leaders.A thing I in my whole life I have never felt.HORRAH!

  • 1 Nephi 16:2
    Aug. 8, 2008 6:04 p.m.

    "The guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center".

    Sounds like a handful of people might be falling into this group.

  • Sophie
    Aug. 8, 2008 6:00 p.m.

    Consider the source: Sunstone Symposium. While they think highly of their opinions, I don't. Sunstone strives diligently to serve two masters: faithful members of the LDS church and the alienated and estranged. It's a watering hole for feminists, gays, and other disaffected members of the church to gather and prattle on about their various grievances and resentments -- all packaged in cleverly written intellectual babble.

  • Thinking
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:49 p.m.

    There seems to be an overarching theme from the comments I've read. Why did people react so negatively towards Sis Beck's talk? I believe it's been addressed.
    Sis Beck is a well traveled leader who has visited several countries and members from different cultural upbringing.
    I wonder what women from other countries think of her talk? So far, the ladies I've spoken with find it of worth and value to them. They come from different background, some have children, some divorced, some don't have children and some have never been married. Yet they find Sis Beck's talk valuable in their individual lives. I wonder why that is.

  • I Can't Resist
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:48 p.m.

    Well it looks like there are a lot of people who need to get a life. Many of you need better self esteem. We all have our free agency to live our life how we think we should. Personally, I thought Sister Beck's talk was inspired. Good families and good parents are what the world needs now!!!!

  • Our Very Own Iron Lady
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:47 p.m.

    I've been wanting to voice my support and admiration for Julie Beck. When I heard that talk, I thought there is a person who was raised up and has something to say. Let's all hope she doesn't censor herself. This world needs more people who speak to the ideal without fear. She's an absolute class act - I've never met her, never talked to her. But I see in Julie Beck that formidable strength that comes from striving to live up to a noble ideal. She has that wonderful mix of grit and poise that often eludes the Pharisees of our day.

  • Sith
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:43 p.m.

    Do we follow the Letter of the Law or the Spirit of the Law?

    Thou shall not steal...

    There is no excuse for stealing...

    Thou shall keep the Sabbath Day holy...

    I guess the Police Officers and Paramedics are doomed because they have to work on Sundays? I think not...

    The Lord knows our needs and circumstances girls...

  • STEVE-O
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:44 p.m.

    We are given council and encouragement by church leaders. But at the end of the day we'll stand before GOD and give him an account of what we have done with our time on earth.
    There are politics and human error in the Church, but at the end of the day we're just people doing the best we can. We're being the best Mothers and Fathers we know how to be. Sister Beck was given the task of addressing this issue in the church and she did what she felt was right. There's certainly no harm in that.

  • William
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:38 p.m.

    "Me thinks thou protesteth too much" and "Seek not to counsel your God"

    Relying on the Intelligence of experts have given me warning about the coming Ice Age and Global Warming in my lifetime. Not a very good track record.

    I will put my faith in the creator of the systems that not only put us on this earth, but allows us to stay here.

    Families and especially Mothers are part of those systems. When Mothers disappear so will we.

    Mrs. Beck just defined what good looks like in a mother. She did not attack what you may or may not be doing. She just restated the standard.

    If you have an issue with that standard, fine, just make sure the issue does not come from guilt. Are you attacking the standard because it is wrong or because you can't live up to it and you have to make yourself more comfortable in your own skin.

    "experts" have shown us what to do and not to do for years. Too bad that advice too often conflicts over time.

    Motherhood is too important too leave to the "experts"

  • from Robert
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:35 p.m.

    I doubt every Mormon is being judged by her comments; the lady is just giving good advice to women, and IMO, if they heed what she has to say, they will be better off for it. If women are judging themself, that is not necessarily "bad"; it is good that we judge ourselves, and make sure that we try to be the best that we can be (best citizens, children, and parents). We (people) shouldn't be too hard on ourselves; however, we shouldn't be too easy either.

    I am not LDS, and don't belief in Mormon Theology (Joseph Smith being a prophet, etc.). However, I do believe in LDS principles and values. What the Church teaches it's members (and nom-members, such as "me") is in a nutshell, "the right stuff".

    If there is someone "out there" who can refute what this lady has to say; namely, show me that it is all BS, I'd like to hear from him/her. The best wife is a good mother; the best father is a man who loves his children's mother. Corny wording (perhaps) - but true to the core.

  • Alan
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:34 p.m.

    Two points:

    1. Funny that there is such an uproar about the idea that motherhood is the most important work a woman can do. Has anything different ever been said in the church about the men? Is not fatherhood the most significant work a man can do? No one complained about that ... certainly not the bachelors in the church. I've been single most of my adult life, and I didn't disagree.

    2. Motherhood and fatherhood are about teaching children LIFE SKILLS and CHARACTER. Neither corporations nor academia teach these very well. Sure, homemaking is nice, and Sister Beck was only pointing out that an orderly home invites peace, and the Spirit, which is true. (Martha Stewart makes an industry of homemaking, and gets paid and praised by the millions. But she's a C.E.O.!) What's wrong with a little balance? Some of these folks need to be less defensive, and a little more willing to give kudos to their sisters who choose a path different than the academic or corporate ones.

    Of course, living a Christlike life is what really matters, and getting upset about things like this shows how much growth many of us still need.

  • Wyoming
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:29 p.m.

    No one can be offended quite like a liberal self proclaimed intellectual.

  • Jane
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:27 p.m.

    I think Sister Beck's talk was beautiful and I found nothing in it that was offensive. As a young, at-home, LDS mother with a degree in psychology; I found it refreshing to hear someone who appreciates the importance of the work I am taking time to do during this point in my life. I am other things beside a mother. However, while my kids are in the home they will be my highest priority. Those who have studied psychology understand the tremendous impact mothers have on their children. One of the hardest things in our society I have found about being a mother is that others tend to think your not doing anything important. I found her talk empowering and comforting. For those women who are not mothers--they should not be judged at all and their importance should be recognized. This talk just happened to be about mothers and not women in general so please do not be offended.

  • cz
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:26 p.m.

    Her talk was entitled 'MOTHERS who know", not YW who know or RS presidents who know. I remember Pres. Benson giving a talk to the singles in the Church and I wasn't offended because he wasn't speaking about me. I don't need that kind of attention. I suspect Sheri Dew was not offended by this talk, because she knows who she is and that her value and worth are based on who she is, not what title she holds.

  • Lucy
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:25 p.m.

    If men were to get as upset by the Brethren beating on them about pornography, the women of the church would be up in arms. If you're upset by Sis. Beck's talk, maybe it's time to ask yourself why. Ladies, cowboy up!

  • Perspective
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:19 p.m.

    Whatwomenknow.org is basically espouses that all genders are equal in capabilities and purposes. Reading through the previous comments I am surprised to find that others have reacted to a General Authority affirming church teachings. Isn't that what is expected?

    As for 500 women risking membership; I am very skeptical. How do you know if they are members? I am sure most of them are but how do we know?

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:17 p.m.

    President Beck's discourse was most remarkable! She quoted scriptures never before quoted in Conference. It would do us all well that we would have her deep understanding. She knows her doctrine like no other and should be heeded. I have nothing but praises for her valued wisdom!

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:14 p.m.

    I have three wonderful daughters. Two are single, one is married with a child. The married daughters wish they were married but are pursuing other worthwhile goals (education, service to the community etc.). The married daughter sometimes feels that she is under appreciated because so much is said about the kinds of the things that the other daughters are doing, even among church members. I think Sister Beck's talk was meant not to less the importance of the contributions of women involved in other things, but as a counterbalance to indicate to women who are primarily caring for children, that they are doing a good and important thing, too.

  • Curious
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:12 p.m.

    I wonder how many of those who continue to disect Sister Beck's remarks and complain about them saw or read the last Worldwide Leadership Training. Of particular significance were Elder Holland's remarks about patterns and the round table discussion that included Sister Beck and at least two apostles along with another sister. Without referring to the protests, they all made remarks that should have calmed these folks down. Unless they are specifically looking for something to protest as opposed to gaining real understanding.

  • Wow...
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:11 p.m.

    Sister Beck's talk is still being discussed amongst women? Get a life Sisters. If it is still such a top priority in your lives to make a big fuss over it, then you are taking it upon yourselves to be offended. Is it a quilty conscience? Get over it. Are you going to lose your membership if you are working to support a family? I think NOT.

    I'm sure the Brethren understands your individual circumstances. Sister Beck's talk was one that was needed to be heard and said. You still have your free agency though...

  • Random
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:04 p.m.

    Thank you, Robert, for a reasonable and logical comment. All mothers, LDS or not, should want to raise their children well.

  • RE: Just Wondering
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:03 p.m.

    You nailed it on the head, I agree whole-heartedly.

    We men get a good "takin' to the woodshed" at just about every priesthood session, and while I'm sure some can't handle it and get offended, I sure appreciate it and try to be a better husband and father.

    All members need to remember that this is a voluntary membership organization, anyone can leave at any time, but the doctrine is not on a menu. We can't just pick the parts we like and leave the rest, as you can with other religions. If it's true, and there's a living prophet, then he speaks for God and there's really no room for quibbling.

    And I haven't heard the General Authorities taking back anything that was said by Sis. Beck, so I take that as being affirmed and condoned by our prophet.

    There just isn't any room for argument in a voluntary membership organization that claims leadership directly from God. Either it's true and you follow it, or it's not and you don't.

  • Re: Just Wondering...
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:03 p.m.

    I am a female and I did not "fall apart". In fact I was inspired to be better and find more ways to have joy in my motherhood role.
    500 women who "fall to pieces" is not all or even a lot of LDS Mothers.

  • Johnson323
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:02 p.m.

    Every talk cannot address the specifics of every person who hears it.No talk can be everything to everybody. Speakers are humans not omniscient.
    This article does not denigrate women without children in any way. It merely points out the value and blessings that can be derived from motherhood for everyone. It doesn't say it is easy.

  • What did NOW do?
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:01 p.m.

    I'm sorry that people in general need to define their lives by the professions they persue. I am a man and would give up everything I've gained for my family and their spiritual, and societal success.

    Boo Hoo to you men and women that gauge your successes by the $$$$$ in your pockets. Or VP plaque on your door.

    True success is measured by the fruits you bear in society whether those fruits be spiritual, children, humanitarian, foster care, etc... Loving our neighbor, that's what counts.

    Dads - Provide for and protect your family. Help your wives with ALL she's in need of. She has a much tougher responsibility than you anyway.

    Moms - Nurture and raise your children to be positive influences on society. Sustain and support your husbands, because you can be their largest ego inflators and they like that.

    Moms & Dads - Stop being selfish, stop comparing yourselves against one another, love each other and sustain each other in your roles, help each other out in your roles, raise good kids (if you are able to bear), be good neighbors, and enjoy this short life with that which really counts, and that is FAMILY!

  • To Just Wondering
    Aug. 8, 2008 5:01 p.m.

    It doesn't sound to me that the women are "falling to pieces" -- more like they're speaking up for themselves on both sides of the issue. I have heard many men grumble about the types of talks you mention, but they seem fine with the slow burn of irritation.

  • re: Just Wondering
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:57 p.m.

    I agree. I thoroughly enjoy the General Priesthood meetings with the straight-forward talks, the lack of "beating-around-the-bush" and the expectation the Priesthood holders would "man-up" and do the things they have already committed to do. As for the wonderful sisters, they really don't get the credit they deserve. For the rest, who take offense at the teachings, sorry. It's your issue, not mine.

  • suzanne
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:57 p.m.

    I enjoyed her talk and thought then it would probably offend some people because there are always those who are offended by the truth. Everyone, regardless of marital status, children etc. just need to do their very best every single day to be the very best person they can.

  • re: Just Wondering
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:55 p.m.

    Well said...

  • RE: Just Wondering
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:57 p.m.

    Are you speaking of your concern for the majority of the "female members" or for just a few. Obviously, it would apply to just a few as is noted in the 3:54 pm comment.

  • simple minded
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:54 p.m.

    This is too narrowminded!

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:53 p.m.

    If I was a woman in the church I think that I too would be offended. Yes there's a hierachy in the church headed by Prophets and Apostles but anyone that says that the woman's role is minimalized by church leaders and ward members is in a dream world. Parents role is to teach and nuture there children, you can have worldly success such as being a CEO or a corporation and still be a good mother and it teaches your kids a lot. How can a girl that starts being a baby machine at 18 with no education intellectually stimulate and teach their children? The simple fact is being a mother and being a good mother isn't one way or one thing. Families, parents, and siblings come in various forms. There's no one right way as long as there's love, respect, and security in the family unit.

  • I think....
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:51 p.m.

    The Church teaches the ideal. They are very aware that not everyone fits in the "perfect mold", but we are striving to be as close to the ideal as possible. If women are trying to decide how to use their talents and energy, it is nice to have some kind of guide of the most important way we might use our time. I think a lot of the response of these women is that they feel insecure about their roles or feel that the Church is looking down on them for how their lives have turned out, which is not the case. If this talk does nothing more than help one woman decide to stay home with her kids instead of taking them to daycare, IF she has that option, perhaps it is effective. I learn so much from the other mothers around me. We are all different and have so much to offer, no matter our individual circumstances.

  • Every Bishop
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:48 p.m.

    I know (and my own experience was the same) sees that women in the ward who struggle with understanding / living the principals mess up the ward. Men in those same circumstances mess up their families. Neither is good, both are messy, but I have no idea why it is that women seem determined to address their issues on a larger stage. Maybe it's the "validation" issue mentioned in other's comments. But my own experience is that we all get a lot more accomplished by being kind and considerate, rather than by being confrontational and combative. Can you picture Sister Beck responding with the invective we've seen from those who chose to be offended by her? Hmmmmm. Maybe there's a lesson there.

  • Shirley L.
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:47 p.m.

    I really do not understand why women think this talk did not respect their roles as mothers. It exalts the role! I agree with Robert that feminism has made our society decay. It has made men uncertain of who they are, and what their contribution to the world is.
    Children need their mothers. I love the saying, "The Hand that Rocks the Cradle rules the World." The fact that women are generally natural nurtures makes them good at raising children. You can look at the problems in schools of late...Columbine for example, and I'll bet you that those boys did not have parents who were available to talk to when they got home from school and had had difficulties they needed to talk about. My children, who are all raised and have children of their own, were always anxious to get home to share their day with me, and I was always there to hear it. School can be a cruel place. But, if parents are available and sympathetic and loving, the children will be all right.
    May our Heavenly Father especially bless those women who are raising their children alone and need to work outside the home.

  • jrccmsmom
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:44 p.m.

    People, people, people... Did you listen to the same talk that I did? Nowhere did it say that we were just supposed to become the best homemakers in the world. There were so many great and wonderful things in that talk - she talked about standing strong and immovable in faith. She asked all LDS women to have a current temple recommend, pray every day, follow the Holy Ghost, study the scriptures. She talked of standing strong and immovable in family and DEFENDING the family. She talked of standing strong and immovable in relief which means to lighten up and lift others. Again, I say, people, people, people, were you even listening to the same talk I heard and have reread several times?

  • Sleuth
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:40 p.m.

    The message is for all women in all places, times, and circumstances. LDS leaders clearly define the role of motherhood, because that is the revelation. It is not to the exclusion of other roles attained for temporal fulfillment. But let's face it, there isn't a great demand for doctors, attorneys, etc. of either gender in the next world, according to Mormon theology.

    Motherhood is the essential role in this life fulfilling the ordinances and covenants, which lead to eternal life. Women subjected to other roles through circumstances beyond their control are exempted and not demonized by Church. Simply put, motherhood is the prime focus in this life.

    Men can play the same game, Fatherhood is the prime role for men and that's restrictive. But men also know fatherhood is not going to work without accomplishing other things to support it. .

    Auxiliary roles do not void the preeminence in the divine warnings. Motherhood and fatherhood are the unambiguous, unequivocal goals in this mortal experience; all things being equal. If they are not achieved when one is able to achieve them, then so be it. Yet, if they can be, the rules are clear to everyone.

  • Peter
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:34 p.m.

    You LDS women that get offended so easily need to humble yourselves and understand and accept your role. Sister Beck knows her role and plays it very well. Please follow her example.

  • Teenage son
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:31 p.m.

    When I heard Sister Beck's talk I thought she must know my mother because she described her in detail. Our family, our community and the world is- has been- and will continue to be blessed because I have a "mother who knows".

  • Mc
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:28 p.m.

    I sustain Sis. Beck, too. Everything she said was in keeping with the Proclamation on Families, which I believe came from God. If you don't think it came from God, then you don't believe that a prophet of God leads this Church. Sis. Beck was giving counsel to mothers this time, but I've heard many other talks and Ensign articles that counsel single women in the Church. I don't resent those talks because I am not single. If they don't mention mothers when they talk about the accomplishments of single women who have been able to do great things, I don't feel slighted and demand that they include motherhood in every talk. I respect what many single women have done to contribute to society in ways that I couldn't do while raising children, but I have no regrets and have great joy in what I am doing. I have often found that respect does not go both ways and some are openly disrespectful with comments like the man in the article, which demean not only the person but motherhood itself.

  • to Robert
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:30 p.m.

    Oh, but every mother in the LDS church is being judged by Ms. Beck's words and is judging herself. My sister is about insane from trying to live all the shoulds of the LDS faith. I worry for her mental health as her anguish in not measuring up continues to plague her. She's a good mum in my opinion, but according to the stick she's being measured with she fails on several fronts so she beats herself with it. She's not alone in this behavior, check out a lot of the neghborhoods around here.

  • From an LDS Man
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:27 p.m.

    As an LDS man, I am not so interested in the issue of whether Mormon women choose to have advanced degrees and run corporations, or choose to be stay-at-home mothers.

    However, I am very interested in the issue of whether Mormon women are adults that intelligently do what they think is best, happily accept full accountability for their decisions, and kindly ignore what anyone else says about it.

    Anyone complaining about what Julie Beck said hasnt yet achieved that maturity, IMHO.

  • lynn in TN
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:27 p.m.

    She teaches the correct principle, the details are up to you. Chill.

  • AM
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:24 p.m.

    I feel that church members have given too much weight to Beck's talk. Many church members take everything said by leaders as coming straight from God. Any thinking church member should know that the Lord doesn't really have much to do with his own church. The Lord isn't a micro-manager, or even much of an interventionist. He leaves just about everything up to the discretion of the called leaders who are human and make just as many mistakes as everyone else. Church leaders even sometimes teach things that aren't true, or try to pass off personal opinion as law. The Lord gave us all brains to be used. He doesn't want us to be drones who just accept every little opinion from our chubby bishop on up. We should use our brains to sift through all the garbage fed to us to find and grasp the meaningful truths that present themselves on occasion.

  • suzyk
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:26 p.m.

    To "Women-Leaders". Your comments were based mostly on asssumptions. People with your frame of mind and attitude will always look for the negative as you have done. To "I sustain Sister Beck and Bear Hug "- Bravo to you enlightened women and I ditto everything you said. We do know what is right and will never compromise what we know to be true. We just have to pray for these women who are choosing to question what is good in our lives. Hopefully their eyes will be opened and their hearts softened.

  • sl
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:24 p.m.

    Sister Beck's talk sopke of an ideal way to mother. Something to strive for. I don't live the ideal she was talking of even though I'm a mother. I work and my husband stays home (working frelance). I wasn't offended by her talk in the least bit. I think people will always look for ways to criticize and she is unfortunately the recipient of the criticism.

  • typical responses
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:20 p.m.

    Teaching the ideal does one of a few different things. 1) it draws the ire of those that don't believe that it is the ideal, 2) it makes some who don't live up to the ideal feel guilty, and 3) it makes others who don't live up to the ideal want to strive towards it. This article describes all three responses. Clearly, Church leaders are hoping that people will respond in the third way, while knowing that many will respond in one of the first two ways. However, don't expect Church leaders, like anyone else who strongly believe they are right, to change their tune.

  • Man
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:20 p.m.

    I am happy to have my wife work. I lost out on two tenure track positions at BYU because they were being pushed to hire females. Now, I get to send the kids off to school and meet them when they come home. While most men are commuting, I'm playing basketball with the kids. What a deal!

  • Thank You Sister Beck
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:19 p.m.

    Thank you Sister Beck for your inspired conference address. The fact that it is stirring so much discussion among these women is evidence that this was exactly what was needed to be said. You are an inspiring leader and your address was a masterpiece.

  • Concerned Member
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:19 p.m.

    This is a perfect example where we are called to be in the world but not of the world, we can't secularlize the role of womanhood, nor manhood. There are God ordained roles that are completely equal in necessity and importance. Families are central to God's plan, through the restoration we learn that God blesses us individually in helping us become more christlike, but also blesses us as families. We are called to be good sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, etc. The family is so important to God, and because its so important to God, it should be equally important to us. Satan's greatest weapon is to attack families, to break them up with pride, anger, selfishness. To tear them apart with immorality by breaking law of chastity. Instead of fighting within about what offends us, we should be uniting together to defend the family, to defend the roles of fathers and mothers, to defend the sanctity of marraige, the responsibility of taking care of children, to live the higher law. God is such a loving heavenly Father and I'm so grateful for his Gospel and this church that remains steadfast in an unsteady world.

  • to I sustain...
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:16 p.m.

    You're dreaming if you think 5-6 million women heard that talk. It's significant that 500 women have risked their membership to talk about how they feel.

    You are absolutely correct about the content not being allowed if it wasn't directly in line with church teachings. All talks are vetted beforehand. Interesting that. If the speaker was chosen by inspiration and prepared their talk by inspiration then I suppose it's just good form to double-check them.

  • Here remarks were encouraging
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:13 p.m.

    As a father who washes dishes, changes diapers, and reads stories to my children, I am grateful for words of encouragement by Sister Beck for my wife of seven children. On a daily basis, I see what an incredible sacrifice it is for her. Society seems to only validate women whose lives are centered outside the home. I recognize that many women can't have children, and are in the workplace whether they want to be or not. And clearly many of these women are accomplished professionals. But all of that should not diminish the incredible work done by women who are having children and rarely get any validation for doing so.

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:09 p.m.

    I am glad that this topic was brought up. As an Active LDS man, I was troubled by the original 07 talk.
    A women's spiritual credit rating is not determined by the number of offspring and BYU grads she raises.

  • Just Wondering...
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:09 p.m.

    Does anyone recall men acting this way after being chewed out by one of the general authorities in the church? Ive been to a lot of priesthood sessions and there seems to always be at least one talk from someone telling men to grow up, honor their priesthood, and start acting like men. These talks, while making many men uncomfortable, usually motivate the majority of attendees to be better fathers, husbands, and priesthood holders. Women get a similar talk and they fall to pieces. For years Ive thought the female members of the church were more mature and the church would fall apart without them. Maybe I need to reconsider my position.

  • Realist
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:08 p.m.

    Some people just can't see the eternal perspective can they? They want worldly achievements that won't mean anything in the after life...

  • sadderbutwisergirl
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:05 p.m.

    I hope the responses that this article are sure to generate in this comment section are enlightening. This is a great topic to consider. Often, so much of what it written here is said with such vitriol and anger against the LDS church that the messsage loses all its potential meaning in a rush of negative emotions. Folks, how about thinking first, then writing, and let's get a good dialogue going here. And remember, th fact that someone has a different opinion than your doesn't make yours less valid or theirs wrong.

  • Anonymous
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:04 p.m.

    "Aagard was approached by several audience members in the hallway after the presentation, defending her right not to be offended by what church leaders say about her role. One man told her, "You're a slave and you don't even know it.""

    Typical hypocrisy from a so-called open-minded liberal!

  • Travo
    Aug. 8, 2008 4:04 p.m.

    Sister Beck is in a leadership position but she is not the prophet or an apostle. I don't see her words hold the same weight as thiers.
    I can see what she is saying but a more sensitive approach to the situation could work a little better.

  • Robert
    Aug. 8, 2008 3:58 p.m.

    As a non-Mormon, I found her talk to be excellent. The lady is right on the money. It is feminist ideology and liberalism that has contributed to the decay of America for many years. If mothers would listen to this woman - not just Mormon mothers, but ALL mothers, our country and our children would be much better off. Women have more "power" then they realize, and that power shows years later when their children grow up to be good men and women - or "not".

    Motherhood (and fatherhood) are the most important "jobs" people can undertake. A man (woman) may be CEO of the biggest corporation, but when all is said and done, all that remains (on Earth) after they are gone are their children.

    The people who complained about what she had to say should just get a life. No one is forcing them to read/listen to her comments.

  • Kory
    Aug. 8, 2008 3:54 p.m.

    WWJD

  • Bear Rug
    Aug. 8, 2008 3:53 p.m.

    I think the problem here, is that there are many people that are looking for an excuse to be offended. Sis. Beck's talk was directed, specifically to MOTHERS. The topic of single mothers and contributions by women--throughout history--has been addressed by leaders on previous occasions. Sis. Beck wanted to address MOTHERS, and their role in raising and nurturing children. You're looking beyond the mark. Sis. Beck's talk did not mention working mothers, single mothers, single women, or divorced OR widowed women. Her remarks were directed at MOTHERS. It is hard to believe that you people could spend several hours dissecting a twenty-minute talk. Don't you have more to do?

  • Is this a typo?
    Aug. 8, 2008 3:55 p.m.

    The article states that the panel discussed that Sister Becks comments:

    "narrow the role of women in the church by minimizing the contribution of those who don't have children and stay at home to raise them"

    I would also question the contribution of someone who DOES NOT have children yet STILL insists on staying home to raise them...

    Not because I think they're lesser people, but because something fishy must be going on...

  • I sustain Sister Beck
    Aug. 8, 2008 3:54 p.m.

    Let's get one thing clear here... The LDS church is not a democracy. If you have a problem with the doctine either get over it or leave, it's that simple. The doctrine of the church comes from God, not from men, so who are men (and women) to question the authority and doctrines of God? Come on people! You can argue and 'discuss' all you want, but that will never change the facts or the church's stand on issues. Sister Beck's talk was inspired and would not have been allowed in conference if it was not directly in line with the church's teachings. I find it interesting that a mere 500 women who have taken issue with this talk are getting such media coverage when there are over 5 or 6 million women in the church and the rest of us were uplifted by this talk and grateful to hear it.

  • Women "Leaders"
    Aug. 8, 2008 3:53 p.m.

    in the LDS church often make me cringe when I hear them speak. As I listen to them it is apparent that so many of them have never lived overseas or have been exposed to any other culture. One spa=eaker years ago spoke on her daughters dating habits and driving the car to her prom. I wonder how many women and girls in Taiwan, or South America could remoely identify with her talk. The problem is that many LDS Utahns tend to project thier culture to the world and expose thier limited understandings.