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BYU cementing strong ties with China
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Gretzky | 7:51 a.m. Aug. 6, 2008
great article!
Observer | 7:50 a.m. Aug. 6, 2008
Why is BYU so proud of it's close connection with a communist nation and
government that suppresses human rights?
Re: Observer | 8:20 a.m. Aug. 6, 2008
I agree with Observer. I understand that because of China's
"impending takeover of the world" everyone is trying to buddy up to
them, but we should be careful in who we get into "bed with."
Not only does China supress human rights, but they will/are it is THE threat for the US for the forseeable future.
Not only does China supress human rights, but they will/are it is THE threat for the US for the forseeable future.
Comments continue below
elizabeth | 8:28 a.m. Aug. 6, 2008
I think it is great. It is people to people. It reminds me of the great program
"Up with People" that had young people of almost every nation put on
great programs.
Real Observer | 8:39 a.m. Aug. 6, 2008
Observer, have you ever been to China? Have you seen the "human rights
violations" first hand, or do you rely on the "totally objective"
media for your information. I have been living and doing business in China
(Shanghai) for the past 8 years, and while no government is perfect, I am very
impressed with the freedom that Chinese citizens enjoy. As a final note, China
is NOT a communist nation. In fact, capitalism is alive and well in China.
Jack | 9:12 a.m. Aug. 6, 2008
Human Right groups love to complaint and have a "we are better than thou
attitude" but failed to do something about it. Like trying to be a friend
and work with these countries instead of isolating them and what is that famous
word you use "boycotting".
Show them that light...if you know what I am saying.
Show them that light...if you know what I am saying.
Daniel Evensen | 9:13 a.m. Aug. 6, 2008
I've taken part in BYU Study Abroad trips to China, and am going on an
extended trip soon after graduation. "Real Observer" is correct:
capitalism is alive and well in China, and human rights abuses are generally
invisible to foreigners living there. I'd love to see more political
freedoms in China, of course. Things aren't perfect there, but they are
much better than they were even a decade ago, and I'm optimistic for the
future. Groups that clamor for instant democracy tend to see the world with over
idealized eyes, often ignoring history (how many violent political revolutions
have there been in China over the past 150 years?) and practical problems (China
would, of course, not want to emulate Russia's unstable transition to
democracy).
Finally, remember that the cold war is over. The world is much different than it was in 1968. Those who see China as a threat to US interests are woefully uneducated in the history of US - Chinese international relations. China ceased being a threat in the early 1970s, and it has no interest in antagonistic relations with America. This isn't the USSR.
Finally, remember that the cold war is over. The world is much different than it was in 1968. Those who see China as a threat to US interests are woefully uneducated in the history of US - Chinese international relations. China ceased being a threat in the early 1970s, and it has no interest in antagonistic relations with America. This isn't the USSR.
Because | 9:23 a.m. Aug. 6, 2008
BYU may not agree with many things in the way the Chinese government does
things, but they respect their sovereignty and work within the established
system to try and make a positive difference. The fact that they are there and
trying does not mean they endorse the status quo. It does mean that the Chinese
government believes it can trust BYU to keep its word, and in a system like
theirs, trust is a very significant cornerstone to build on. Why not celebrate
that? One thing is certain, standing back and pointing fingers won't help
at all. Let the US government worry about the politics of it; the rest of us can
try to build cultural bridges that hopefully, in time, will help alleviate the
problems.
I've been there... | 9:39 a.m. Aug. 6, 2008
It's true, they do seriously harass people. They really are as bad as
advertised.
Oh Please | 9:54 a.m. Aug. 6, 2008
Two totalitarian institutions buddying up? So what's new about that?
Rien | 9:55 a.m. Aug. 6, 2008
I don't think anyone here has yet accurately characterized China. The
mistake everyone seems to be making is lumping the populace and the government
into the same bag. Two different things (just like the US).
I think the Chinese government does have ambitions to upset the current status quo (with the US as the world's lone superpower). But I don't think the people are in on that. Thanks to the state-controlled media, I'd bet mostly they're blissfully unaware. But other than being blind to their politicians' ambitions, from what I've seen the people are gracious, hard-working, respectful, and worthy of respect.
And BTW, they ARE communist (governmentally) AND capitalist (economically).
For now.
How long their government can keep that balancing act going is anyone's guess--it's never been done yet.
I think the Chinese government does have ambitions to upset the current status quo (with the US as the world's lone superpower). But I don't think the people are in on that. Thanks to the state-controlled media, I'd bet mostly they're blissfully unaware. But other than being blind to their politicians' ambitions, from what I've seen the people are gracious, hard-working, respectful, and worthy of respect.
And BTW, they ARE communist (governmentally) AND capitalist (economically).
For now.
How long their government can keep that balancing act going is anyone's guess--it's never been done yet.
Good-for-BYU! | 10:21 a.m. Aug. 6, 2008
I believe BYU is inspired in the way they handle their relationship with China.
After decades, China is still un-moved and unimpressed by countries and special interest groups pouting and wagging their fingers from the outside about whether or not they approve of China's methods.
We see the Chinese as children of God and our brothers and sisters. Good for BYU for being a friend and building relationships.
After decades, China is still un-moved and unimpressed by countries and special interest groups pouting and wagging their fingers from the outside about whether or not they approve of China's methods.
We see the Chinese as children of God and our brothers and sisters. Good for BYU for being a friend and building relationships.
Re:Real Observer | 11:30 a.m. Aug. 6, 2008
Capitalism is not a form of government, it's an economic system.
China's government is communistic. Keep the two straight.
John Pack Lambert | 11:49 a.m. Aug. 6, 2008
The Communist Party controls China. If that does not kae it Communist, what
does? However this is not to say China does not have rampant capitalism, since
that is also the case.
The reason we try to build positive relationships with the government in China is because we know that this will eventually, although when is unknown, lead to the allowance of missionary activity there. If we did not do anything with China, there would still be as many human rights violations, as many killings from both sides in Tibet, as much violence in Uigurstan. However there probably would be no provisions for either native members or foriegn members to hold church meetings. We can not have a perfect world, but we can work with people to make the world better.
Anyway, if we were to openly oppose the current government in China they would end missionary work in Hong Kong and shut down the temple. I do not see how opposition could actually bring results for good, but it would clearly hurt the work of the Lord in China.
The reason we try to build positive relationships with the government in China is because we know that this will eventually, although when is unknown, lead to the allowance of missionary activity there. If we did not do anything with China, there would still be as many human rights violations, as many killings from both sides in Tibet, as much violence in Uigurstan. However there probably would be no provisions for either native members or foriegn members to hold church meetings. We can not have a perfect world, but we can work with people to make the world better.
Anyway, if we were to openly oppose the current government in China they would end missionary work in Hong Kong and shut down the temple. I do not see how opposition could actually bring results for good, but it would clearly hurt the work of the Lord in China.
John Pack Lambert | 11:55 a.m. Aug. 6, 2008
Another thing that I think some people on here need to do is to stop even
talking about Democracy in China. The Tienamen Square protesters did not favor
Democracy in any way that we understand the term. By Democracy they meant that
people who had no education should be removed from the decision process and the
educated elite (who happened to be the student protesters) should be put in
charge of the government. This was not a push for democracy as we understand
it.
Sugar coat a pig | 12:23 p.m. Aug. 6, 2008
You are all sugar coating a pig. The Chinese government is our adversary,
militarily and economically. They oppose our interests around the globe (re:
they supply Iran with missiles, for instance). We should have nothing to do
with them, either at the governmental level or private institutions. Period.
Appeasement has not helped.
John | 3:03 p.m. Aug. 6, 2008
If this story was about the University of Utah it would be totally different.
All the people that are against it are just mad cause its BYU, and BYU is owned
by Mormons. Once again its only because BYU is better than you.
Ribble for the good | 4:51 p.m. Aug. 6, 2008
Dont up the anti people!,acknowledge the good work of those who are involved and
who are doing great work.
America was not built upon a specific race of people rather a joint effort of good minded people from all nations.
So do your part by praying for more good things to happen in China.
Faith and Hope is a good thing.
America was not built upon a specific race of people rather a joint effort of good minded people from all nations.
So do your part by praying for more good things to happen in China.
Faith and Hope is a good thing.
Re: Observer | 1:24 p.m. Aug. 7, 2008
It's called constructive engagement, not acceptance of their communism. If
we did not talk to those with whom we disagree, missionaries would have little
to do. Keep up the good work BYU. Be thou an example to the unbeliever.
Re: I love honey ham | 10:56 a.m. Aug. 9, 2008
Sugar coat a pig? I love honey . . .
As an engineer I see first hand how companies move work overseas--to China included--in order to lower production costs. Consumer's notice the "Made in China" labels on products. If we're willing to give them work for their cheaper labor and they take it, why are they our economic adversaries?
Of course, the technical and other educational institutions in China are really up-to-date, and those of the general populous who have the opportunity are really excelling in science and technology. It's interesting that many Chinese governmental officials (more than in US, anyway) have background in those areas, so I can see why that has been such an emphasis. China is producing many more first-rate science-oriented professionals than the United States. So perhaps you're right. They could be considered our adversaries; they threaten our pride of untouchable-ness.
As far as your accusations of them supplying missiles . . . we've done the same type of thing for other countries--Israel, for instance--in furthering our interests.
I think it's great that we establish positive relationships with any and all people we can. As mentioned above, there are more important things than politics involved, here.
As an engineer I see first hand how companies move work overseas--to China included--in order to lower production costs. Consumer's notice the "Made in China" labels on products. If we're willing to give them work for their cheaper labor and they take it, why are they our economic adversaries?
Of course, the technical and other educational institutions in China are really up-to-date, and those of the general populous who have the opportunity are really excelling in science and technology. It's interesting that many Chinese governmental officials (more than in US, anyway) have background in those areas, so I can see why that has been such an emphasis. China is producing many more first-rate science-oriented professionals than the United States. So perhaps you're right. They could be considered our adversaries; they threaten our pride of untouchable-ness.
As far as your accusations of them supplying missiles . . . we've done the same type of thing for other countries--Israel, for instance--in furthering our interests.
I think it's great that we establish positive relationships with any and all people we can. As mentioned above, there are more important things than politics involved, here.
A free man on the earth | 12:40 a.m. Aug. 11, 2008
I enjoyed the article greatly. Having lived in a neighboring country to China I
think Americans can learn a great deal from China. We have more freedom of
speech here but some people in America abuse it. i.e. pornography and foul
language everywhere that is not tolerated in China. What we can learn from China
is freedom is inexorably connected with accountability.We will only maintain
"free speach" if we are accountable to each other. If not, free speach
will degrade into caos and nothing but corruptness. Most of the rest of the
world thinks it already has for us (hollywood). Freedom of religion is the same
way. Some really bad things have been done in the name of religion without
accountability. My point is made I hope! Freedom to do evil ain't freedom!
It is just another kind of slaverly! Some Americans are already slaves. China
has fewer slaves to this than America does!
Nhia Bee | 7:13 a.m. Aug. 11, 2008
I have to agree that "objective" media is anything but
"objective," and to base any opinion on nothing but the evening news
is about as smart as building a home on the east bench fault line. China
obviously has its problems, communism being not the least of these, but so does
America. That doesn't seem to stop the rest of the world from making
constructive and profitable exchanges with this nation. Politics aside,
isn't the best time to help a brother when he's at his lowest? Where
would you and I be if it weren't for some one, some group, some
institution, foreign born or not, reaching out and making a connection?
Don't let political agendas rule your moral responsibility to care about
people.
Re: real observer | 1:42 a.m. Aug. 17, 2008
I lived in Beijing for over 20 years, your first-hand experiences are from your
aspective as a foreign investor in big cities(Shanghai, Beijing, etc). However,
you don't really know how the majority people feel and think. Those who
enjoy their lives are rich people and the high-rank officials who got their
money from corruption. Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen are all the "pretty
clothes" the Chinese Communist Party wants to show to the western
societies, while at the same time, killing is still going on underground and
even more secretly. Esp. the Olympic Games' coming, the government arrested
lots of so-called "sensitive people" to force them
"shut-up".
What you have seen in Shanghai is real, but the real "coating". Even the Holy Bible in China has a different version! Lots of "sensitive" websites have been blocked.
All the chinese know the former president Jiang has more than three lovers who became famous and rich due to their relationships. What ridiculous isthe fact was categorized as "state-secret" ifyou dare to talk about it. Comparing this, what the American people did to Clinton and the NYC Mayor?
You'r absolutely safe to enjoy your life filled with money, seeeeex, alcohol in mainlandChina, but, SHUT UP!
What you have seen in Shanghai is real, but the real "coating". Even the Holy Bible in China has a different version! Lots of "sensitive" websites have been blocked.
All the chinese know the former president Jiang has more than three lovers who became famous and rich due to their relationships. What ridiculous isthe fact was categorized as "state-secret" ifyou dare to talk about it. Comparing this, what the American people did to Clinton and the NYC Mayor?
You'r absolutely safe to enjoy your life filled with money, seeeeex, alcohol in mainlandChina, but, SHUT UP!
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