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Anti-polygamy activist pens book on FLDS
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L. Mills | 4:57 a.m. Aug. 1, 2008
It's too hard to tell who is lying and who isn't. Ms. Jessop, and
members of the FLDS Church, need to submit themselves to independent lie
detector tests administered before the public. It's the only way I will
believe any of them.
Jancis M. Andrews | 6:35 a.m. Aug. 1, 2008
One has to wonder at the indifference of governmental officials to the human
rights abuses that occur within the FLDS -- and this in the so-called "Land
of the Free!" What, free for brainwashed, selfish men to deny human rights
to their women and children? We have the same disgusting problem with the FLDS
in Canada, in their secretive commune of Bountiful. Our misogynistic government
could have stopped the abuses decades ago, but didn't want to spend the
millions needed for a court case, and so turned a blind eye, pretending that if
the rape of girls and the abandonnment of boys are religious practises, then
they must be accepted. That's a load of BS, and our lousy politicians know
it. In the opinion of many up here in Canada, our provincial government
officials should be charged with aiding the FLDS to abuse women and children.
When law enforcers don't bother to enforce the law, they are just as guilty
as the criminals.
Gal50 | 6:42 a.m. Aug. 1, 2008
For the people associated with the FLDS, it is hard to tell who's lying.
It's like being a judge in a court case where either both sides or lying or
one side is lying and the information just doesn't match up. In the
article, Flora is certainly the one telling the truth about the Texas compound
and the FLDS were the ones certainly lying. We know that because we know that it
is not a hunting retreat and this same "hunting retreat" lie was told
in FLDS real estate transactions in other states.
Looking over various FLDS court testimony, it seems to me that various members claim that they "forget" an incredible number of things that the normal person would remember. This massive loss of memory constitutes lying in my opinion, but it isn't provable. As for those who have escaped the FLDS, should we assume they were taught to lie and still do it? I don't know.
I do agree with Flora that CPS has done very little in Arizona or Utah. If the safety net has helped 1000 people as claimed, certainly CPS should be aware of and involved in some statutory rape/abuse cases.
Looking over various FLDS court testimony, it seems to me that various members claim that they "forget" an incredible number of things that the normal person would remember. This massive loss of memory constitutes lying in my opinion, but it isn't provable. As for those who have escaped the FLDS, should we assume they were taught to lie and still do it? I don't know.
I do agree with Flora that CPS has done very little in Arizona or Utah. If the safety net has helped 1000 people as claimed, certainly CPS should be aware of and involved in some statutory rape/abuse cases.
Comments continue below
firsthandwitness | 7:48 a.m. Aug. 1, 2008
I grew up in a small town in Utah where this FLDS religion was a problem. I was
sexually abused and became pregnant at 11 years old. I had a miscarriage at
junior high school. The school nurse called the police who wanted to take me
home and threaten my father but I was so frightened of what my father would do
to me that I insisted that they allow me to walk.
Several years later, my girlfriend got pregnant by her father. She had to drop out of school. I felt so helpless to know what to do.
To his dying day, my father refused to admit what he did. My entire family called me a liar and disowned me.
Because of this I can see why the FLDS call Flora Jessop a liar. They are too ashamed and scared to admit the truth.
Several years later, my girlfriend got pregnant by her father. She had to drop out of school. I felt so helpless to know what to do.
To his dying day, my father refused to admit what he did. My entire family called me a liar and disowned me.
Because of this I can see why the FLDS call Flora Jessop a liar. They are too ashamed and scared to admit the truth.
1890 | 8:32 a.m. Aug. 1, 2008
let me see , in a land that's known for freedom how can such a thing be
fair...won't you please come to draper for the all the poly's living
there in the open ...denial is not a river in africa!
kdeeig | 8:59 a.m. Aug. 1, 2008
I've known Flora for 3 years and have nothing but the highest respect for
her. She has, without personal gain, stood up to this organized and abusive
culture.
I have watched her take loads of donated clothes, toys, food, books, furniture and other houseold items to the victims who have either escaped, been thrown out or simply left the fLDS.
I've watched members of the FLDS just plain lie on national TV. When asked if the women being interviewed knew of any under age marrigaes, all three of them, like robots, said "Not that I'm aware."
They call it "lying for the L-rd" and it is an acceptable practice among the FLDS. I even have recordings of Warren Jeffs teaching his followers about it and how it is alright.
When the FLDS says "The truth will prevail", they are not talking about actual truth. They are speaking of their version of truth, which allows them to abuse women and children in the name of religion.
Abuse is not a religion.
I have watched her take loads of donated clothes, toys, food, books, furniture and other houseold items to the victims who have either escaped, been thrown out or simply left the fLDS.
I've watched members of the FLDS just plain lie on national TV. When asked if the women being interviewed knew of any under age marrigaes, all three of them, like robots, said "Not that I'm aware."
They call it "lying for the L-rd" and it is an acceptable practice among the FLDS. I even have recordings of Warren Jeffs teaching his followers about it and how it is alright.
When the FLDS says "The truth will prevail", they are not talking about actual truth. They are speaking of their version of truth, which allows them to abuse women and children in the name of religion.
Abuse is not a religion.
Phantom Panther | 9:41 a.m. Aug. 1, 2008
"Lying for the Lord?" I thought God could not look upon sin with the
least degree of allowance. To me, lying is lying. According to scripture, God
does sometimes allow/command people to live in plural marriage. However,
it's bound to be difficult. Brigham Young once said that polygamy would
damn more men than it would exalt. Interesting to think about when I hear about
the abuse that's said to go on among Mr. Jeffs and some of his followers.
? for firsthandwitness | 10:26 a.m. Aug. 1, 2008
Do you mind if I ask whether you were FLDS or just lived in one of the southern
Utah towns among them?
I have lived in a couple of those small towns myself. Unfortunately, sexual abuse of children is not limited to one group of people--it's horrendous (I know from personal experience) and it seems to be even more prevelant now than it used to be. And it's certainly covered up by families who don't dare admit what is happening.
I have lived in a couple of those small towns myself. Unfortunately, sexual abuse of children is not limited to one group of people--it's horrendous (I know from personal experience) and it seems to be even more prevelant now than it used to be. And it's certainly covered up by families who don't dare admit what is happening.
Pete | 10:33 a.m. Aug. 1, 2008
It's funny how a handful of MEN will back polygamy right and left. This
tells me that it's a personal desire for a very very few certain men, and
these men desire total control over women for their own sexual purposes.
However, there are more good men in our world who choose NOT to mess around with
this sick, abusive cultist life style, and because of these good men, our world
is a much safer place for women.
Wendy | 10:49 a.m. Aug. 1, 2008
I believe good old Willie said it best. "We don't believe their
evidence is credible," he said. "We don't believe they obtained
it legally, but we'll stand up in court and face the allegations," he
said. "We believe in our innocence." Sounds like Willie is going to
try and fight the evidence. I wonder if "they" believe in their
innocence, why is good old Willie stating the evidence wasn't legally
obtained? If these polygamist aren't having sex with under age girls then
there shouldn't be a problem for them. I think the mothers of these young
girls whould also be brought to trial. If a few of these mothers have to serve
time in jail, maybe the others will get a back bone and stand up for their
innocent young daughters.
DP | 10:50 a.m. Aug. 1, 2008
I talked with a former neighbor a few years ago about his involvement with
polygamy, which he and his young wife left before they started their family.
Most parents teach their children the basic values - honesty being one of the most important. But, he said as a child that it was so confusing because he was taught to be honest, but also told, (so that would be taught) to lie about so many things
to school teachers, police officers, authorities knocking at their door, other kids at school, etc.
I think because of this he was totally honest as an adult because now he could see the confusion it had caused for him as he was growing up.
I am almost finished reading Carolyn Jessop's book, Escape and have yet to read if (more realistically 'how') Carolyn and Flora Jessop are related, so Flora it would be interesting if you would address that in your book.
Most parents teach their children the basic values - honesty being one of the most important. But, he said as a child that it was so confusing because he was taught to be honest, but also told, (so that would be taught) to lie about so many things
to school teachers, police officers, authorities knocking at their door, other kids at school, etc.
I think because of this he was totally honest as an adult because now he could see the confusion it had caused for him as he was growing up.
I am almost finished reading Carolyn Jessop's book, Escape and have yet to read if (more realistically 'how') Carolyn and Flora Jessop are related, so Flora it would be interesting if you would address that in your book.
zxcvbnm | 10:52 a.m. Aug. 1, 2008
I sure am glad Flora got the buzz words escape and slavery in the title........great sales tecnique for the fictional accounts and half truths.
Now all we need is a credible fact checker.
spring break | 11:13 a.m. Aug. 1, 2008
I still think the FLDS are screwing up their childen, but it would be a lot
easier on everyone if they just stood up for themselves.
Many of us have had hard childhoods and we turned out ok, so these people probably will too. At some point, someone will just have to stand up and say NO. Get that book you wanted to read, and read it. You want to play a CD, do it. Stop following all the whack rules and just do your thing. Pretty soon Short Creek will be a party town and then those that want to be all controlled and everything will have to move.
I say we have travel agencies promote Short Creek for spring break. Throw in a bunch of crazy college students into the place and see how long it holds up.
There's no way to beat the FLDS. We just have to show the kids another way. Nothing like spring break to do that....
Many of us have had hard childhoods and we turned out ok, so these people probably will too. At some point, someone will just have to stand up and say NO. Get that book you wanted to read, and read it. You want to play a CD, do it. Stop following all the whack rules and just do your thing. Pretty soon Short Creek will be a party town and then those that want to be all controlled and everything will have to move.
I say we have travel agencies promote Short Creek for spring break. Throw in a bunch of crazy college students into the place and see how long it holds up.
There's no way to beat the FLDS. We just have to show the kids another way. Nothing like spring break to do that....
stop whining | 11:44 a.m. Aug. 1, 2008
sooooo tired of the whining. These people need to fix their own problems.
I'm tired of my tax dollars being spent trying to "save" people
that don't want to be saved.
These women write books about how they had to "escape". LOL Just LEAVE if you don't like it. Someone tells you to do something you don't like or don't want to do, say NO.
And these "lost boys". COME ON! They should be happy to get out! They're being "tossed out" and people are complaining? At least now they're free.
And why do the men let someone tell them to leave their family? No backbone? Are you men or not? It's your house and your family. Don't just leave. What's that all about?
Then there's the "child brides". Get a grip, girls. SAY NO! Don't "marry" that old coot. Stick up for yourselves. If they try something, leave, or defend yourselves. They should only be able to get away with it once. The second time, you have every right to use whatever method necessary to defend yourself.
You're LETTING these people walk all over you. Stand up for yourselves instead of expecting everyone to save you.
These women write books about how they had to "escape". LOL Just LEAVE if you don't like it. Someone tells you to do something you don't like or don't want to do, say NO.
And these "lost boys". COME ON! They should be happy to get out! They're being "tossed out" and people are complaining? At least now they're free.
And why do the men let someone tell them to leave their family? No backbone? Are you men or not? It's your house and your family. Don't just leave. What's that all about?
Then there's the "child brides". Get a grip, girls. SAY NO! Don't "marry" that old coot. Stick up for yourselves. If they try something, leave, or defend yourselves. They should only be able to get away with it once. The second time, you have every right to use whatever method necessary to defend yourself.
You're LETTING these people walk all over you. Stand up for yourselves instead of expecting everyone to save you.
I agree with you "Stop Whining" | 12:36 p.m. Aug. 1, 2008
But the problem is that these people have been brainwashed! When something is
taught to you since the time you were young and when you are taught that if you
don't do something you will not "go to heaven" your brain starts
to believe it. Eventually, they may start to question, but it may mean leaving
everything behind that they know. Some of them probably know it's wrong
inside, but can't quite find the courage to change and start from scratch.
re - stop whining 11:44am | 12:45 p.m. Aug. 1, 2008
I couldn't agre with you more. Only hard part is for the young girls.
Sticking up for themselves is a lot easier said than done. That said, I agree
that they can (and should) use ANY method to defend themselves. Running away is
best, but failing that, anyone trying something at you should be limping out or
carried out.
You go, girls!!!
You go, girls!!!
re - zxcvbnm 10:52am | 2:47 p.m. Aug. 1, 2008
how do you know they're "fictitious accounts and half truths"?
Were you there?
I'll tell you the same thing the FLDS tells everyone else. If you weren't there, you don't know.
So - why do you believe it's all fiction? You believe people that worship a pedophile over people that don't? You think because they portend to be all religious that they wouldn't make things up?
You satirize those that don't believe the FLDS yet you obviously picked a side. It's only good for you?
I'll tell you the same thing the FLDS tells everyone else. If you weren't there, you don't know.
So - why do you believe it's all fiction? You believe people that worship a pedophile over people that don't? You think because they portend to be all religious that they wouldn't make things up?
You satirize those that don't believe the FLDS yet you obviously picked a side. It's only good for you?
to - I agree with you | 3:34 p.m. Aug. 1, 2008
Then leave everything and start over. It's a big world. lots of
opportunity. Chances are even if you hook up with someone abusive to help you,
they won't be as bad as where you left. And if they are, keep going.
Brainwashing someone into believing the weird practices like this can only go so far. At some point a light goes on and you realize it's just made-up to control you. If it doesn't, then you probably should just stay there - you won't make it outside anyway.
Seems to me that if you even have a CLUE about the outside world you'd run for the hills away from such a cult. And if you don't have a clue, then perhaps you're best off letting them have their way with you.
Can't save everyone. The smart ones will leave and the FLDS can have the rest. And in 100 years it won't matter.
Brainwashing someone into believing the weird practices like this can only go so far. At some point a light goes on and you realize it's just made-up to control you. If it doesn't, then you probably should just stay there - you won't make it outside anyway.
Seems to me that if you even have a CLUE about the outside world you'd run for the hills away from such a cult. And if you don't have a clue, then perhaps you're best off letting them have their way with you.
Can't save everyone. The smart ones will leave and the FLDS can have the rest. And in 100 years it won't matter.
I do wonder | 4:11 p.m. Aug. 1, 2008
I do wonder when the only books we read about a group are written by their
apostates.
As an active (over 50 years) convert to the LDS church, I was often questioned sharply about our beliefs by people in the east and south who had read books or seen movies by those who had left our church. People refused to believe that the LDS church didn't teach the things our apostates said we did. In fact, they called my a liar when I said the books were mistaken.
So--I do wonder about these books. I have actually known FLDS people who have not been a part of anything I would disagree with except the practice of polygamy--I even went to high school with some, years ago. And I know women who feel perfectly comfortable with the practice of polygamy and who weren't forced in any way, neither were they child brides.
What I wish is that some of the active FLDS would come forward and tell their side of the stories--however with the huge hoopla going on, they'd hardly dare now. Somebody would grab their kids or throw them in jail. Can't blame them for keeping a low profile.
As an active (over 50 years) convert to the LDS church, I was often questioned sharply about our beliefs by people in the east and south who had read books or seen movies by those who had left our church. People refused to believe that the LDS church didn't teach the things our apostates said we did. In fact, they called my a liar when I said the books were mistaken.
So--I do wonder about these books. I have actually known FLDS people who have not been a part of anything I would disagree with except the practice of polygamy--I even went to high school with some, years ago. And I know women who feel perfectly comfortable with the practice of polygamy and who weren't forced in any way, neither were they child brides.
What I wish is that some of the active FLDS would come forward and tell their side of the stories--however with the huge hoopla going on, they'd hardly dare now. Somebody would grab their kids or throw them in jail. Can't blame them for keeping a low profile.
Does the Des News | 5:10 p.m. Aug. 1, 2008
not dare post a question about the truthfulness of these books asked by a
non-FLDS?
re 1052AM | 5:58 p.m. Aug. 1, 2008
I have looked over Floras site .....compared her description of events against the description of events as described by others..........she exagerates and sensationalizes to her benifit whereever possible.
A vast number of the allegations against the FLDS were proven false.........allegations against the FLDS at short creek have proven false. Her Quinones 20/20 interview had several discrepancies.
Floras description of her discussion with the State investigator involved in her sisters interview shows her inability to accept the reality of the situation.
So......read for yourself........draw your own conclusions. ZXC
zxcvbnm | 10:01 p.m. Aug. 1, 2008
Re I do wonder: Keep wondering. Under old Jewish law, and I wonder if it applys today, it takes two people to witness an event to begin to believe its authenticity.
To deal with the accusations made by the accusers we are far short of absolute proof of the accusations leading to the raid.
The evidence of crimes revealed to this date generaly fit laws drawn up to fit the specific parties in violation of the new laws.
Emotion and knee jerk reactions are at the root of the motivations to act by the State.
The State scrambles now to find justification for its' actions in what appears to be an attempt to save face.
Question every word and look at every reaction.
and then keep wondering.
exiled | 11:44 p.m. Aug. 1, 2008
I would like to pose a question to all who believe Flora has helped FLDS women
and children escape polygamy. Who has she actually helped, how did she help
them, and where are they now? I would ask her to give us some names. Does
exploiting them help the children heal, or does it feed her hunger for fame and
glory? It will be interesting to see her book full of victims and the outcome of
her help.
zxcvbnm | 4:55 p.m. Aug. 2, 2008
re exiled: wonderful point. One of the two girls from the 20/20 piece returned
to her parents.
It would be nice to talk with the girls that were "saved" and get their side of the story.
It would be nice to talk with the girls that were "saved" and get their side of the story.
Kilbarry1 | 3:56 a.m. Aug. 3, 2008
re - zxcvbnm 10:52am SAYS: "How do you know they're "fictitious
accounts and half truths"? Were you there?
........So - why do you believe it's all fiction? You believe people that worship a pedophile over people that don't?"
The authorities went into the FLDS compund with guns and armoured cars, also sniffer dogs to check for murdered babies. Who told them those lies except for Flora Jessop and her like?
They grabbed 460 "children" including 26 who were adults but they claimed their birth certs and driving licences were forged. One of the "children" was 27. Over 400 "real" children were in the care of the CPS for several weeks but not one of them wanted to stay that way. They all choose to return to their parents.
Why do you continue to believe Flara Jessop after all of that?
........So - why do you believe it's all fiction? You believe people that worship a pedophile over people that don't?"
The authorities went into the FLDS compund with guns and armoured cars, also sniffer dogs to check for murdered babies. Who told them those lies except for Flora Jessop and her like?
They grabbed 460 "children" including 26 who were adults but they claimed their birth certs and driving licences were forged. One of the "children" was 27. Over 400 "real" children were in the care of the CPS for several weeks but not one of them wanted to stay that way. They all choose to return to their parents.
Why do you continue to believe Flara Jessop after all of that?
Not knowing | 10:04 a.m. Aug. 3, 2008
If you don't know Fawn Or Fawn lets not act as if you do. Neither one are
with their familys ( only wanted if they will stay ) One lives in boston and
the other has a family of her own, both doing good. Lets not forget the
underage mothers that they did help !!( in Texas )
re Kilbarry1 | 3:58 p.m. Aug. 4, 2008
how can you not believe these women when abuse is impossible to avoid in a
situation like FLDS?
I mean, the father either beats his wives and kids to keep them in line or he risks being banished and losing everything. Sinc the men won't stick up for themselves, they have to comply. And there is no way to keep multiple women and dozens of children in line in that kind of repressive environment without abusing them.
So by the very fact of the FLDS lifestyle and beliefs, abuse is actually mandatory. So why wouldn't you believe these women?
I mean, the father either beats his wives and kids to keep them in line or he risks being banished and losing everything. Sinc the men won't stick up for themselves, they have to comply. And there is no way to keep multiple women and dozens of children in line in that kind of repressive environment without abusing them.
So by the very fact of the FLDS lifestyle and beliefs, abuse is actually mandatory. So why wouldn't you believe these women?
Kilbarry1 | 7:13 p.m. Aug. 4, 2008
To the last person who commented. Your arguement makes no sense. Would you like
the CPS to take YOUR children away and use the kind of "logic" you are
using to justify themselves?
Interloper | 8:30 p.m. Aug. 4, 2008
Actually, there is an FLDS 'authority figure' who could shed light on
these matters if he would speak. But, where is Merril Jessop?
re Kilbarry1 7:13pm | 11:33 a.m. Aug. 5, 2008
My argument makes perfect sense. What don't you get?
The CPS didn't take the children because of my argument. They took them because they believed there was sex abuse of young girls (and there was.)
My argument simply states that the FLDS rules of "keep your family in line or you may be told to repent from afar" breeds abuse. No - demands abuse.
You can't see that? You think you can make multiple wives and dozens of children adhere to a repressive lifestyle without abusing them? Especially if the penalty for failure is to lose everything? You are extremely naive.....
The CPS didn't take the children because of my argument. They took them because they believed there was sex abuse of young girls (and there was.)
My argument simply states that the FLDS rules of "keep your family in line or you may be told to repent from afar" breeds abuse. No - demands abuse.
You can't see that? You think you can make multiple wives and dozens of children adhere to a repressive lifestyle without abusing them? Especially if the penalty for failure is to lose everything? You are extremely naive.....
Steve | 10:30 p.m. Aug. 9, 2008
It is time for the people of American to take this evil cult on directly.
My suggestion is simple: Destroy them economically.
The only way this grotesque lifestyle can continue is if their economic activities are allowed to continue. No money = no FLDS.
It is time to put every FLDS-related company in the public spotlight --- and anyone who does business with them.
Public ridicule will eliminate their customers and no one will do business if their fear being labeled FLDS-friendly.
Best of all, no government action is required.
Let's together drive this disgusting cult, led by a child molester and rapist, into oblivion.
My suggestion is simple: Destroy them economically.
The only way this grotesque lifestyle can continue is if their economic activities are allowed to continue. No money = no FLDS.
It is time to put every FLDS-related company in the public spotlight --- and anyone who does business with them.
Public ridicule will eliminate their customers and no one will do business if their fear being labeled FLDS-friendly.
Best of all, no government action is required.
Let's together drive this disgusting cult, led by a child molester and rapist, into oblivion.
clarris | 9:58 a.m. June 4, 2009
The saddest part of all this is that the women who seem to speak up for the FLDS
have been so brainwashed that they cannot comprehend that abuse is wrong. Or
they have been instructed by Jessop, Timson or Jeffs to say these words. At
times these things are said to protect there children because if they don't
futher punishments await them and the children.
As to the issue of just leaving if you don't want to marry someone chosen for you by the prophet, easier said than done. To leave at 13 or 14, told that you will never see your family again, with no money and no idea about the outside world takes more than courage.
Martha Jessop Barlow I believe is a 6th generation polygamist and is so indoctrinated with the FLDS teachings that she like so many other women within the FLDS knows no different...and she needs to "keep sweet"
How sad that the saccharine can't be replaced with honesty and standing up for the rights of themselves or their children
As to the issue of just leaving if you don't want to marry someone chosen for you by the prophet, easier said than done. To leave at 13 or 14, told that you will never see your family again, with no money and no idea about the outside world takes more than courage.
Martha Jessop Barlow I believe is a 6th generation polygamist and is so indoctrinated with the FLDS teachings that she like so many other women within the FLDS knows no different...and she needs to "keep sweet"
How sad that the saccharine can't be replaced with honesty and standing up for the rights of themselves or their children
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Douglas C. Pizac, Associated Press
Flora Jessop, at 5th District Court in St. George in 2006, fled the FLDS Church in 1996.
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