Deseret News | Reader comments: UTA implementing another 25-cent surcharge due to rising fuel costs

Reader comments
UTA implementing another 25-cent surcharge due to rising fuel costs

BS | 12:55 a.m. July 31, 2008

"As the rising cost of fuel has pushed motorists to look for alternative means of transportation, many have turned to public transportation. Inglish said that UTA has had more demand for their services than ever before and the increase is necessary to prevent cuts in service"

I'm not an economics major but I know that when I get more clients it means more money in my pocket. No need to raise fees. With the above statement they are contridicting themselves. If anything they need to hire more people to keep up with demand and increase service. With the cuts in service to Redwood Road in August of last year and the mess they have made recently with route 35 it has gotten harder for disabled people to get around. Max does not really have the room for wheelchairs. We have had to cancel appointments because of the regular route 35 bus being full- 2 wheelchairs already on it. We tried Max - what a waste of money.

Occational Rider | 5:47 a.m. July 31, 2008

Maybe if they raise the rates high enough, they won't need to worry about all those bothersome riders. It's much easier to operate buses and trains that are mostly empty. If they don't need to spend the extra money on extra passengers then they'll be able to give themselves bigger raises from the government subsidy money.

Use Natural Gas too. | 6:19 a.m. July 31, 2008

Has UTA looked into being flexible on the type of fuel it uses? Why not get the ability to use natural gas on busses and frontrunner?

Wouldn't this save money?

Comments continue below

RH | 7:24 a.m. July 31, 2008

Interesting, more riders would generally mean more revenue from rider fares. I find it annoying that UTA feels it necessary to increase the fare again. The top dogs running the show must want a pay raise. I will NEVER use UTA for anything.

What a Bunch of Crap!! | 7:40 a.m. July 31, 2008

Since ridership is up the fuel cost actually goes down because there are more people paying for the same ride!!

Paying that with only 60% ridership and then increase riders up to 90% and that cost actually goes down so the rise in fuel should offset the rise in fuel cost!!
Not to mention the tax rate increase that should also have offset the cost!

Not sure how UTA does math?

Maybe the Cost of upper management at UTA needs to go down!!
A recent study showed UTA upper management were higher paid than any other transit system!

I agree with BS | 7:44 a.m. July 31, 2008

More riders does result in increased revenues. I am not aware of UTA placing more buses, or adding routes, (variable costs) in service because of the increased demand. Rather the previously empty buses (fixed costs) now have riders on them. It doesn't cost more to run those buses that were already in service. So why the subsequent fuel surcharge? Inglish, and his lapdog board, needs to justify the fare increase.

Davis County Commuter | 7:50 a.m. July 31, 2008

How do increased demand increase costs. The busses/trains run on a set schedule. More demand, just means full busses (not more busses) instead of empty ones. I would imagine that a full bus uses slightly more fuel than an empty one, but wouldn't the riders fare easily cover the cost?
Service to Davis county was already cut when we didn't pass a UTA tax increase, now, since more of us want to ride, service will be cut again? It doesn't make sense.

GCF | 8:34 a.m. July 31, 2008

The public is side-whacked repeatedly because of poor vision and planning on the part of those overseeing the "public transit systems." Why with all of the focus on alternatives, particularly electrical, are we burdened with "traditional fuel" problems?

Try this.... | 8:51 a.m. July 31, 2008

With all the added weight of the people who are riding the busses or trains UTA is using more gas. It's cheaper to just drive around empty busses because there is less friction.

That makes about as much sense as anything UTA will claim. Keep raising the fares, eventually it will be cheaper to drive. For me and my little truck, with this new increase it will be. I guess they just lost a rider. And aren't gas prices coming down??

Trax | 8:54 a.m. July 31, 2008

Somebody educate me as to why TRAX fares are going up. Last I checked, TRAX doesn't run on gas/diesel - it runs on electricity. So why a "fuel surcharge" (read: fare hike) on an electric train?

Matthew Piccolo | 9:31 a.m. July 31, 2008

I've recently lived in DC and LA and their bus systems only charge $1.25/ride. Despite this, I think it's better that those who ride pay rather than government subsidizing riders from everyone's pockets. It's only fair, those who ride should pay their own way. I'm willing to accept a price hike knowing that gas prices are higher.

At the same time, I assume that the UTA analysts understand how equilibrium with supply and demand work. As bus fares rise and eventually are high enough, overall ridership will begin to fall unless demand (because of even higher gas prices or lower fares) increases. In other words, if you keep raising fares you're not going to make more money because the decrease in demand due to higher fares will offset any gains. You have to find the equilibrium point, and my guess is that $2.25/ride may be above that.

Todd | 9:36 a.m. July 31, 2008

"Inglish said that UTA has had more demand for their services than ever before and the increase is necessary to prevent cuts in service."

I'm with the other people posting on this board. Why didn't the reporter ask the obvious question: Doesn't increased demand for a set bus schedule decrease operation costs because efficiency is increased and more riders means more revenue?

I'd expect a story like this if ridership was going down. If fuel costs have truly outpaced the increase in ridership, I'd like some hard data to back that up.

Clayton, ask for numbers to back up the fee hike. Find out the cost per rider in 2006 and the cost per rider in 2008 if possible.

mookie | 9:35 a.m. July 31, 2008

With this rate increase, and if gas prices continue to level off, it will be less expensive to drive my car to work.

Hmmmm | 9:43 a.m. July 31, 2008

This as exxon announced their quarterly earnings were the highest ever --> NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Exxon Mobil once again reported the largest quarterly profit in U.S. history Thursday, posting net income of $11.68 billion on revenue of $138 billion in the second quarter.

That profit works out to $1,485.55 a second.

Am I missing something? They must be ready to file bankruptcy at this rate. Oh wait - that would be me!!

RTB | 9:45 a.m. July 31, 2008

Do any of you old-timers remember when there was an election to create UTA? That was many years ago. We had the option to choose "low-fare" or "no-fare." We were promised much better service if we selected low-fare. And do remember the subsequent elections to increase the sales tax for more UTA subsidy. And do you remember, each time, we were promised that if we chose the increase the rates would stay low and service would improve. If any of you are good historians and possibly have some old newspapers regarding UTA history it would certainly be interesting.
And I agree with the logic that increased ridership increases the fare-box revenue which should offset increased fuel costs.
Maybe, as these experts always tell us peasants, we need to be "educated."

Tammi Diaz | 10:11 a.m. July 31, 2008

UTA is a PUBLIC SERVICE! They RECEIVE PUBLIC FUNDS!

INJUSTICE ANYWHERE IS A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE!
MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.

We need to start ASKING: What UTA doing to ENCOURAGE MOTORISTS to take the BUS, and LEAVE their VEHICLES at HOME and HELP out our ENVIRONMENT?

UTA need to get ACCESSIBLE VANS and SMALL BUS to go into NEIGHBORHOODS to take INDIVIDUALS to the MAIN BUS ROUTES.

We also need to ASK: Is our TRANSIT SYSTEM, CONVENIENT, FREQUENT and AFFORDABLE for ALL CITIZENS?

GAS PRICES have SKY ROCKETED. UTA should not be GOUGING RIDERS with FARE INCREASES.

THROUGH MISMANAGEMENT, AGGRESSIVE ELIMINATION of BUS
ROUTE and FARE INCREASES UTA is DESTROYING the BUS SYSTEM.

JOHN INGLISH and the REST of the HIGH PAYED EXECUTIVES NEED to MOVE on. STOP THE GREED!

To DIAZ | 10:27 a.m. July 31, 2008

You know what is also messed up? My property tax goes partly to the water company. What's up with that since I already pay them once every two months!?!?

C.W. | 10:43 a.m. July 31, 2008

I ride the bus every day and use it mostly for leisure also. A couple of points: why not eliminate the "free fare zone" it loses revenue in a couple of ways. Also, I don't think the UTA board could care less what the public thinks, they'll do what they want because what little oversight they have is like the "old boys club" Look at the makeup of the UTA board and see if you can spot ANY public transit riders! I think if I could get 10 of my best friends in a room I could convince them to raise my salary to 260K especially when its not their money! UTA does some things well, but they have a lot of room for improvement. The additional fare means very little to me because I make a good salary but for those working low-paying jobs it may mean they can't AFFORD to get to work, resulting in more on public assistance (or crime). UTA would be much more efficient if it were held responsible by the state or started putting people on the board who actually RIDE public transit!

jmdspk | 11:04 a.m. July 31, 2008

Lets also not forget that unfunded mandate from the federal government called the ADA and paratransit service. This service cost us about $25 to $35 per rider and uses lots of diesel to run these vans around mostly empty. While I am not saying the service is not needed, it is important to know how costly it is.

trainrider | 11:44 a.m. July 31, 2008

Ditto on the increased ridership should cover the increased fuel costs.

Also UTA always says they don't want to 'cut service'. But how about some common sense on providing service that isn't used. During the day I've ridden the train and there's hardly anyone there. Try reducing trains to once an hour during non-peak times--or cutting the number of cars to one or two outside of rush hour. I'm sure there are many busses in the same category.

Finally how about a little enforcement. I've had my ticket checked twice since FrontRunner started in April. One person caught cheating will pay the 25 cent increase for lots of other passengers and the orange-vested hosts don't seem to have much else to do--why don't they check?

Wow Tammi | 11:44 a.m. July 31, 2008

First of all, UTA is not a public service. It's a for-profit megabusiness. No, it shouldn't be that way, but that's what we voted for. We have noone to blame but ourselves.

Second, could YOU take IT easy ON the SHIFT KEY?

Tammi Diaz | 12:18 p.m. July 31, 2008

jmdspk There is MISMANAGEMENT with PARATRANSIT, UTA
has DRIVERS going to one end of Salt Lake County, you would think with the HIGH TECH COMPUTER PROGRAMS PARATRANSIT better MANAGE.

Then there the ADA ELIGIBILITY CENTER, in order QUALIFICATION for TRANSPORTATION from PARATRANSIT.

The FARE is $2.50 each way. I have FRIENDS that ALMOST
HOME BOUND, in October 2008 it will be $2.75 and in
January 2009 it will be $4.00.

The Disabled only get $500 to $600 Month. There be Increase HEALTH PROBLEMS with the DISABLED.

Do the FARE INCREASE AND UTA DESTROYING the BUS SYSTEM.

THANK YOU!JOHN INGLISH AND THE BOARD OF TRUSTEE!

Equals | 12:29 p.m. July 31, 2008

This should not be new to most of you. It's nothing more than the same old POLITICAL theivery. Another big question--why hasn't Utahs fuel prices went down with the rest of the nation? Right again POLITICAL theivery.

Made my decision | 12:31 p.m. July 31, 2008

I would rather save the wear and tear on my vehicle, I love 3 miles from my employment, takes me about 7 - 10 minutes to drive to work. On UTA it takes me with transfers 45 minutes.

Tickets are now $2 one way, in October $2.25. That means right now I'm paying $4 r/t. In October I would pay $4.50 r/t. That's more than a current gallon of gas, I get 20 mpg in my car - is it really a question on what I'll do? My gallon of gas will get me 7 round trips home to work - whereas my 7 round trips on UTA would cost $31.50 come October. OK, UTA, which choice do you think I'll make on this? It's really a no brainer.

jmdspk | 1:11 p.m. July 31, 2008

Once again Tammi you just sit their and scream at people instead of having a rational conversation.

Please answer me the following: What area with equal population has a transit system equal to UTA?

Second: What is their population density?

We have a transit system that has to cover from Payson to Brigham City and only the Salt Lake city area has a lot of density. You cannot compare UTA with a city like San Francisco or any city like that when they are not comparable to population density or miles covered.

You don't like facing the fact that Paratransit service is a high cost unfunded mandate from the feds but it is. UTA actually paratransit is actually one of the more efficient in the nation but it is still COSTLY.

To Trainrider | 1:54 p.m. July 31, 2008

they should eliminate the weekend runs for route 9. During the week there are fewer then 10 people on the bus at any given time and most of the time it is empty.

On the other hand - the Redwood Road run needs to be running at least on Saturday. We have many disabled people as well as those who work who were left out in the cold when being able to get Walmart, work, and even to visit family/friends. I was taking the bus every Saturday to South Jordan. Now I can't even get to Walmart on 56 South. I am to the point now that I only go to walmart 3 times a month. But I go to South Jordan once a week.

I agree with Tami | 1:56 p.m. July 31, 2008

Many of those who use the Paratransit service are on tightly fixed income and these constant increases will hurt them the most. The service may be costly, but it comes across as heartless when UTA hits those who can least afford it.

Tammi Diaz | 2:24 p.m. July 31, 2008

jmdspk I have try to SIT Down and Talk. If you are the PERSON that Think are I have you many Times and I Leave MESSAGE YOU DO NOT RETURN MY CALLS.

Since UTA DESTROY the BUS SYSTEM I cannot go SHOPPING
on my OWN ANYMORE.

It does no Good to go to the BOARD MEETING!

The DISABLED and the Elderly did not CHOOSE the POSITION that they in. You could become DISABLED SOMEDAY,your FINANCIAL SITUATION could CHANGE in a
HEART BEAT, you will be Elderly SOMEDAY.

SLC gal | 2:33 p.m. July 31, 2008

Wow Tammi. Blaming an increase of health problems on a bus fare hike - VeRy CrEaTiVe!!!!

J. | 2:58 p.m. July 31, 2008

I am glad that we had the train the other day with the tie up on I-15. A coworker did not get home until 9:30 and she left at 4:30. I am glad we finally have a train system again, I just hope they get the south line going soon and stop sitting on their thumbs. Also, I am glad that the Legacy will be finished soon so the drivers have another choice for driving north. I fear for the day that we have a serious disaster that causes everyone to want to evacuate the city at the same time. I keep a good pair of hiking boots and a backpack of supplies in my office for just such a day. I would recommend the same to everyone else.

jmdspk | 3:24 p.m. July 31, 2008

First of all, I am not saying that Paratransit service should be abolished, but it is taking about 25% of the resources of the bus system to provide the service. Plus the fact that it is an unfunded mandate from the Federal Government which means UTA has to cut other service to provide the paratransit service.

Yes Tammi, I would love to have have the old 32 back so my wife could use it to work. I would rather not make a half hour walk in 90 degree weather to work but I have to. I would love to see us have many more buses on the road but we live in a low density, very spread out area that UTA has to service with available resources.

WOW!! | 3:38 p.m. July 31, 2008

I love to see the compasion of some on this board towards someone like Tami who is in a difficult situation both financially and possibly in a physical or mental state as well.

Nice cheap shots, very supportive, very Christlike. Just remember what they say about paybacks, they are what some of you seem to be. But that word isn't used in polite society outside of a kennel.

Tammi Diaz | 4:19 p.m. July 31, 2008

I RECEIVE I CHOOSE TO USE AWARD in 2007, Since UTA DESTROY the BUS SYSTEM AUGUST 2007 I no Longer Ride the Bus has OFTEN NOW. I had to get my Husband, Friends and use PARATRANSIT MORE, I am fan of FIXED ROUTE.

UTA needs to get Accessible Vans and Small Buses to go into Neighborhoods to take Individuals to the Main Bus Routes.

UTA needs a Transit System that is Convenient and Affordable for all Citizens.

Utah Transport | 5:25 p.m. July 31, 2008

FrontRunner has increased the cost of diesel fuel for UTA by well over $6 million a year.

Typically, commuter rail riders make good money at CBD jobs. Yet, they often pay little of the costs of their "Mass" transit trips. It's called freebies or perks.
What do you want to bet that FrontRunner riders don't even pay for most of the 1.6 million gallons of fuel they use each year? Also, they are likely paying less than their share of the fuel surcharge.

Remember, UTA is in the process of "Building ridership" on FR by getting governments and businesses to provide free passes to employees. UTA is also inducing, (buying) ridership with massively reduced fares for families to ride evenings and on Saturday.

It's all part of Inglish's train-empire building process. The bigger the empire; the higher the bonuses the Board gives him.

jmdspk | 6:18 p.m. July 31, 2008

Actually Utah Transport, or should I just call you Drew or Michael?

Most commuter railroads do pretty well especially compared to bus systems and especially compared to paratransit systems.

Saturday's and Evenings are traditionally the worst times for ridership, so you saying they are doing a bad thing by being innovative and getting riders on the train that normally wouldn't during those times.

Besides, as I recall when all you guys were doing your diatribe's at the one meeting in 1999 you were saying commuter rail good, TRAX bad. Oh way, that was before commuter rail was started and you had to get out your weapons against it.

Tammi Diaz | 6:49 p.m. July 31, 2008

I have alot Respect for Both Drew and Michael they care
about how TAXES are being Spend and our Environment.

They Volunteer there own time to make Utah a better
Place to Live. They are not out for GREED.

John Inglish and UTA HIGH PAY EXECUTIVES are out for
GREED. They care about making Utah better place Live.

With the DESTRUCTION of BUS SYSTEM and FARE INCREASES.

UNIVERSITY OF UTAH WITH THE SUBSIDIZED STUDENTS AND
FACULTY DISCOUNTS BEYOND WHAT OTHER FARE PASS HOLDERS PAY IN THE AMOUNT $6.3 MILLION EACH YEAR. They also SUBSIDIZED alot more in order to get INCREASE RIDERSHIP.

INCREASE RIDERSHIP that how they get the HUGE BONUSES.

J. | 10:07 a.m. Aug. 1, 2008

I take everything back, UTA is so burdened by imbeciles that they do not work well at all. Yesterday I missed two transfers to the Commuter Rail from TRAX because the driver could not figure out a problem with the door. I have found this to be normal for the TRAX line. When I called to complain the woman said the problem was caused by a water main break at the University. How in the world can she say that a door problem is caused by a water break. I don't think she was even listening to me from the point where I said I had a complaint. What a bunch of morons!

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