Deseret News | Crimes impeachable

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Readers' forum: Crimes impeachable

GeeBee | 12:20 a.m. July 26, 2008

No one died when Clinton lied...it almost rolls of the tongue. Granted, it's a silly bumper sticker, but it speaks volumes. The morality police jump upon their soapboxes at some sexual indiscretion. But 7 years of warmongering and unilateralism...not a peep.

Gus Talwynd | 12:48 a.m. July 26, 2008

The establishment of the unitary presidency is a failed attempt by the Bush/Cheney administration to subvert the vision of the Founding Fathers and their three branches of government. However, it will not be and the Bush/Cheney administration will be seen as the worst administration in the past 100 years (if not in the history of the United States).

However, rather than waste valuable time and resources trying to impeach either Bush or Cheney (a process that is destined to fail because it does not involve sex and a Republican majority in the House and Senate), it is important to keep all documents and computer files that have not been erased available to historical researchers so that a true picture of this administration can be documented.

There should be no secreting of records as occurred when Bush II orders the papers of his father sealed. The papers of Bush II and Cheney should be open and freely accessible to all so that questions heretofore hidden from the public record can be answered in a fair and honest manner.

This accessibility to records is more important than immediately trying to get an impeachment hearing. The is time later for an investigation.

Anonymous | 1:18 a.m. July 26, 2008

It the land of "fair and balanced" thinking Bush is accountable means you hate Bush. The implication as liking Bush is more important than loving you nation.

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 1:18 a.m. July 26, 2008

mmmm did Rocky write in under a pseudonym?... and Gus ... no one wants to read your max-out 200 word diatribes...please be succinct por favor

History as judge | 1:18 a.m. July 26, 2008

My respect for the rule of law makes me want to agree with the letter's author.

My appreciation for the reality of American politics makes me think this is a waste of time.

There's no doubt that Dubya & Co. are going to scramble like crazy to keep as much of their misdeeds a secret. For a little while, they may even succeed. Fortunately, we live in a world in which secrets are nearly impossible to keep and the truth will eventually percolate to the surface.

It may take several years, but I believe history will judge Dubya and his cronies as the most blinkered, hubris-soaked and intellectually bankrupt administration in several generations. We'll spend decades understanding and undoing the damage he's done to our nation.

I have no illusions about his chances for impeachment, but I do hope that his imperious, vindictive, corrupt and distinctly un-American style of government will be viewed with collective revulsion by future generations.

Go ahead impeach him already! | 2:06 a.m. July 26, 2008

So are the American people going to continue to shout out impeachment? Yes they are. Why? Because they are so convinced Bush is the worst thing to hit America since the Great Depression. Hearing all you guys is like listening to women who do nothing but gossip about their enemies. It's just talk. Talk, talking a lot, but it's still talk.

Cats | 6:52 a.m. July 26, 2008

There have been absolutely NO impeachable offenses committed by either President Bush or Vice President Cheney. These pro impeachment people are absurd. If the Democrats in Congress had ANY BASIS WHATSOEVER to introduced impeachment proceedings against either man, they would have done it a long time ago. The fact is, they have NOTHING.

If you think the War in Iraq is immoral, I guess that is your right. However, the war is completely LEGAL. Saddam Hussein's assassination attempt on a U.S. president, IN AND OF ITSELF, was an ACT OF WAR. Not only that, he broke myriad conditions of the Gulf War Ceasefire Agreement.

There is not one soldier in either Iraq or Afghanistan who is not a volunteer. Every one of these volunteers signed up knowing full well that he or she may end up serving on the war front.

Honestly, these Professional Bush Haters are really pathetic.

Anonymous | 7:00 a.m. July 26, 2008

As I have tried to sound the alarm numerous times in the past that this country is as close to fascism as I have ever seen, our neoconservative administration is now headed for dictatorship and unlimited power over the people.

And our ignorant Limbaughites are going right along with it.

RightOfRight | 7:26 a.m. July 26, 2008

RE GeeBee
Wrong. Remember when Clinton bombed the aspirin factory to shift the focus away from his problems? Innocent people died. Inspite of what the Dems would have you believe, Clinton's problems had nothing to do with sex and everything to do with perjury. In case you weren't aware, perjury is illegal in this country. In fact Clinton was fined over $100,000 and was banned from practicing law for a time.

Dave | 7:48 a.m. July 26, 2008

Ah the rants of the ill-informed. Bush won't be impeached because there is nothing to impeach him over. The clinton impeachment had nothing to do with sex.

KM | 8:40 a.m. July 26, 2008

I'll bet you that Gus has totally overlooked the blatant abuses of power committed by the Clinton administration. Using the IRS to punish opponents, accepting money from communist china et. al. don't forget Sandy-pants-Berger ( I wonder what he was trying to hide about the administration he was part of? )
Many records were just erased or shredded.
I just wonder If you were there when Clintons were and continue to 'secret' records?

Anonymous | 8:45 a.m. July 26, 2008

John, what crimes have been committed? Did Bush lie? Why did the Clintons believe in WMD in Iraq? If Bush is so stupid , how did he dupe the supremely intelligent democrats? Why did they support the authorization of war?

I am no supporter of Bush but please lets not cast stones when we live in glass houses. If you have facts that prove the accusations please present those facts. Otherwise lets leave the partisan bickering of this board.

Way ahead of ya | 8:46 a.m. July 26, 2008

Congress already ceded their powers. They still show up to work, because there is good money in hosting lobbyists.

MEB | 8:49 a.m. July 26, 2008

George Bush should feel fortunate that he is finishing out his term during the reign of a do-nothing Democratic Congress. Those who voted in this Congress under the guise of change should be sorely disappointed. Congress' 9% approval rating supports that thought.

And those who are planning on voting in a Democratic President under the guise of change will be similarly disappointed.

The last time we had positive change in this country was when the Republicans, battered an beaten, looked at their platform, and said, "Oh yeah! That's what we're supposed to be doing!", ran on it, won by a landslide, balanced the budget, ran a surplus, and won the Presidency back.

Then all (heck) broke loose.

Mc | 8:51 a.m. July 26, 2008

Let's impeach Congress. They voted for the war and had all the same intelligence to base it on as Pres. Bush did. So they either lied to us or they, too, were convinced by the evidence of WMD put forth by Saddam Hussein in an effort to appear more of a threat than he really was.

Nathan Seegmiller | 9:02 a.m. July 26, 2008

I agree King Bush and his side kick Chenney both need to be tried for crimes committed against every United States citizen and the U.S. Constitution...but oh wait King Bush already has said he donesn't care what the Citizens or the Constitution says. King Bush has ignored Congress, signed away the first and fourth admendments, and screwed our economy so bad its a wonder We the People have not hung him and Chenney at the gallows already. Down with King Bush!!!!

Lionheart | 9:03 a.m. July 26, 2008

@Gus: Hummm--Wasn't it a Clinton cabinet member who stuffed documents down his pants? Life has been pretty good for me and mine the past 7 1/2 years, sorry about all the rest of you Bush haters, I just can't think what it is you are so worked up about. We've driven the radicals back into Pakistan and they are attacking India again, their usual target. We advanced our influence in the middle east and established critical military staging areas, europe has elected right leaning governments, and the economy is still growing, the housing bubble is working itself out, as all housing bubbles do, it was predictably California, Florida, Nevada where it was happening anyway, a cycle we will see again. I think you just can't stand success, don't worry, Obama will give you something real to squawk about.

Lionheart | 9:24 a.m. July 26, 2008

@Anonymous: Bush and Cheney are going home to their ranches. Why would they want to established a dictatorship and unlimited power for the next "democrat" president?

Wesley | 9:30 a.m. July 26, 2008

The best part about this letter is that it's chock full of facts.

MEB | 9:36 a.m. July 26, 2008

@GeeBee - I've heard that rhymne a thousand times, and every time it makes me cringe. That we as citizens allowed our leader to get away with committing the crimes that Clinton committed, without being impeached, was spitting in the face of all of those who gave their lives to found this great country. Democrats chose party over country, and it's going to be a hundred years before I forgive them for that.

That being said, according to your 'philosophy', since no one died during the Watergate affair, so we should not brought impeachment hearings against Nixon, forcing him to resign. At least I respect the Republicans who chose country over party at the time, forcing Nixon to step down.

And as Cats points out above, the Democrats in the House and Senate hate Bush enough that if they really had an impeachable offense against him, it would have been brought to a vote by January of last year.

Ralph | 9:37 a.m. July 26, 2008

Clinton should have been impeached for trading nuclear weapons secrets to the communist chinese in exchange for campaign contributions. At least Bush has not done any favors for our enemies.

Clinton should have been impeached for 900+ FBI files in the White House. How about pardoning terrorists, or ......

Clinton should have been impeached, the list is so long. Republicans chose (I don't know why) the wrong issue. It allowed the left to claim it was all about sex. Lieing under oath is a small thing when it is about sex (if you believe that let a Republican try it). There were much more substantial issues that should have resulted in his being taken from office.

Re to MEB | 9:58 a.m. July 26, 2008

I need to point out a little detail you seem to have forgotten.
Bill Clinton signed into law tax policy change in 93 under a democratic congress. This change restored a 39.6% top rate. This is the primary reason the budget was eventually balanced and still would be today were it not for King George and his giveaway to the rich.

Giving credit for the balanced budget to the Repubs in congress is true right wing insanity.

Charles | 9:56 a.m. July 26, 2008

Long on rhetoric John and short on facts. But don't let that stop you from fulfilling your dreams.

But Rocky testified on Capitol Hill for you. Be sure to send a thank you.

Cats | 9:56 a.m. July 26, 2008

To Wesley: I would like to know what "facts" you are referring to. The writer doesn't list one "fact." No wonder you are so confused.

Charles | 10:05 a.m. July 26, 2008

Cats...you missed Wesley's point. He was mocking the writer of the letter.

MEB | 10:18 a.m. July 26, 2008

@9:58 - Sure, that's how Democrats would like things remembered. Fact is, the Clinton law was passed on 1993, and the budget was not balanced until 1999. If Congress was really taking in enough money with the new tax increase to cover its spending, why wasn't the budget balanced in 1994 or 1995?

Answer? It wasn't until Republicans began cutting spending in 1995 and subsequent years that the budget was FINALLY balanced (despite Clinton fighting it for as long as he could).

hold on... | 10:42 a.m. July 26, 2008

No one cares about right and wrong. Everything is grey. If you like Bush, he does no wrong, and Clinton is s devil. If you like Clinton, he does no wrong, and Bush is a devil. But I can't stand when people use the misdeeds of others to justify the misdeeds of their own. They pass blame on to others; and they likewise proclaim ownership of good deeds (MEB, I'm looking at you!).

Someone says, "Bush did X!" And the reply from Bush supporters will be, "Yes, well Clinton did Y!" And I am left to ask, "Who cares?" If right is right and wrong is wrong, why does it matter what your political affiliation is?

We have been reduced to a "blame game." And right and wrong depends on political persuasion. Congratulations to us...

Re: to MEB | 10:51 a.m. July 26, 2008

I guess then you need to explain.
If Clinton's tax increase had nothing to do with balancing the budget, why did deficits return immediately when King George passed his tax give away to the rich????

Again I must remind you when Clinton passed his tax policy change, the projections estimated it would take about 10 years to balance the budget. It happened earlier than that however, primarily because those same projections had the economy growing slower than it actually did.

Just more evidence that increasing taxes on the rich has NOTHING to do with economic growth. You admitted as much on another thread in taking about a 70% top tax rate being associated with economic prosperity for our country.

Charles | 11:20 a.m. July 26, 2008

to 10:51...is it all about tax collection with you or is there room in your tent for spending reductions? Wouldn't it be more fiscally responsible to see where Congress can cut the fat before we start telling Americans we need more of your money to fund out pet projects?

All we hear is we need higher taxes, higher taxes. When those in Washington can show that they have cut things to the bone and then we don't have enough money, then let's talk about raising taxes.

Until then, I think the fat should go first.

I do agree with "hold on.." on this one. The blame game is old and accomplishes nothing. Right is right and wrong is wrong and yes, people do care about doing right; or at least they should.

None of the above | 11:23 a.m. July 26, 2008

I think every election ballot should have a place to vote for "None of the above." If no one gets elected we need to start over. I know I'd vote that way this year!

Charles | 12:26 p.m. July 26, 2008

I think I could go with you on that one this year None of the above...or we could write in Monty Brewster?

Tyrannicide | 12:29 p.m. July 26, 2008

Democrats aren't impeaching George W. Bush because his continued tenure in the White House makes the Republican brand more poisonous than it already is.

When GWB is out of office and in exile in his Paraguayan ranch, Utah will become a refuge for many the Bush administration's henchmen and enablers. The same thing happened after Nixon resigned.

The Sons and Daughters of Liberty need to identify these authoritarians, and the organizations and companies that harbor them, and slowly -- and privately -- bring them all to justice.

Oscar | 12:32 p.m. July 26, 2008

Talk about jumping to conclusions. How did Clinton get into this discussion? Oh, yes. If Bush is criticized, the tactic become divert attention to Clinton.

I agree whole-heartedly with Gus (12:48 a.m.), let's have full access to the record. It doesn't matter who is president, Democrat or Republican, we need to see all documents, emails, messages, to better understand what happened.

It appears that the anti-Clinton forces are in full-agreement with that administration in trying to hide anything that might expose wrong-doing and want to have it for the Bush administration. WMD? Iraq in league with Al Quida?

Let's see the paper trail and finally find out if the neocons were conspiring to invade Iraq long before 9/11 but needed an excuse to execute their grand plan. It is clear that Cheney and Rumsfeld with their Iraq Study Group in the Pentagon were juicing the data and contradicting anything coming out of the CIA that didn't agree with their spin on the need to wage war.

good point Lionheart | 12:43 p.m. July 26, 2008

Bush and Cheney are going back to their ranches while the true power hungry demos like: Clinton, Gore and the rest will continue to meddle in out countrys affairs. No pun intended for King Clinton.

Re to Charles | 12:55 p.m. July 26, 2008

I'll agree with a simple point that yes there is too much waste in government. I am all for eliminating it when its found.

The simple reason I am for higher taxes on the wealthy is the fairness of it.
As others have pointed out for me, the rich in this country have increased their wealth regardless of tax policy. The poor and middle class, however, are much more affected by whims of the government.

The LARGEST WASTE in government spending is INTEREST ON THE NATIONAL DEBT!!!! Last year it was over $400,000,000,000. Why don't you care about that???

Also, please tell me what your plan is to eliminate all the other waste, and what programs you consider wasteful.
McCain harps on this point but never names any specific program he would cut. He states he will balance the budget by eliminating waste, but states he will do it without cuts to defense and entitlements. Well those 2 areas plus the interest on our debt account for 90% of all gov. spending. I guess you believe there is $500 billion plus in waste in the remaining $300 billion budget???

Thomas | 1:11 p.m. July 26, 2008

"Bush lied, people died" is a lie. There is no evidence, and no rational cause for believing, that the invasion of Iraq was based on anything other than a good-faith belief that Saddam Hussein posed a material threat to the United States.

If Bush's assertions of executive power (some of which have been upheld by the courts, despite the screeching of hysterics, and others, having been rejected by the Supreme Court, have been duly abandoned) are cause for impeachment, then FDR, Kennedy, Johnson, Truman, and Wilson should also have been impeached.

At least Bush isn't proposing to pack the Supreme Court, or put all Arab-Americans in prison camps, or try his enemies for sedition (all of which Roosevelt did.)

I predict that George W. Bush will begin to be rehabilitated by liberals just as soon as the next Republican president takes office. Happens every time. The "worst president ever," to liberals, is always the Republican who happens to be in office at the time. Look at how they hold up Reagan (who they once hated so much) as being so much better than his successors.

Mary Beth Sorensen | 5:55 p.m. July 26, 2008

It doesn't matter if Bush is impeached. Neither does it matter that Bush is not impeached. If Bush is not impeached, it does not signify that he has not violated the laws of this country nor does it imply that he has served his country properly. The only thing is to have access to everything this administration has communicated in its decision-making processes.

Once the information is available and no longer hidden away with a SECRET designation, people will be able to put all the pieces together. Those who choose not to believe what the documents reveal will just have to continue to moan and groan with the remaining 26% of Americans who still believe in Bush.

The rest of us want to see the files of Cheney and the people on Cheney's staff, Bush and the people on his staff. The same goes for Rumsfeld, Rice, Rove, Ashcroft, and any other player on the Bush team who may have been involved in the activities that have led to the decline of American and made us more unsafe than in the days following 9/11. Get the information out and we will decide what the record means.

Thomas | 6:13 p.m. July 26, 2008

Saddam Hussin is dead. There were elections. Why is the US still there?

It never was about any threat to the US. It was about the oil.

Charles | 6:38 p.m. July 26, 2008

to 12:55...what's fair about taxing the rich? Please explain why it's fair.

Charles | 6:42 p.m. July 26, 2008

should say....to 12:55...what's fair about taxing the rich MORE? Please explain why it's fair. I'd love to hear the explanation.

re: to charles 6:42 | 7:21 p.m. July 26, 2008

Please read about our country's tax history.

70 years ago and beyond the "rich" or the top 5% paid nearly 100% of all collected taxes in our country. They have been paying less and less ever since. It has now reached a point where they pay so little in taxes our country is experiencing record deficits.

I'd define "fair" as a policy that promotes the general welfare of ALL our citizens. It is clear the the rich can take care of themselves and manage to get richer regardless of tax policy. The poor and middle class are not nearly so lucky.

Make a deal | 8:17 p.m. July 26, 2008

Thomas 1:11 - Those who hate Bush and keep screaming, "Bush lied, people died" will instantly cover their heards and scream when you remind them that Clinton said the same thing about Iraq and WMDs as Bush did. Oh yeah, so did Gore, Kerry and Kennedy, just to name a few other Democrats.

Mary Beth Sorensen 5:55 - Make you a deal. I'll gladly support opening the records on the people you mentioned, if at the same time, we open the records on Clinton, Gore, Albreight and Reno.

I would love to know why Clinton was more interested in catching Monica Lewinsky than Osama Bin Laden. I would love to know why the Clinton White House did nothing after the first World Trade Center attack, the numerous embassy attacks, as well as why he they did nothing after the USS Cole attack. And that's not including Clinton's people going through FBI files, or Sandy Berger hiding files in his pants, along with have of Clinton's cabinet investigated for various illegal activites.

Stewart | 8:21 p.m. July 26, 2008

Wise up, we don't impeach our presidents, we allow the people to remove them every four years. The people elected Bush in 2004. If we impeached every president that lied, everyone since George Washington would have been impeached. The House impeached Bill Clinton for perjury, but he was not convicted by the Senate. You think the war is unpopular and he should be impeached for that? Lincoln had it much worse during the Civil War. James Madison and the War of 1812 were unpopular. Lyndon Johnson "misrepresented" the Vietnam war many times. I think you are still bummed out about the Clinton impeachment. Perjury is a criminal act.

RedShirt | 11:01 p.m. July 26, 2008

I laugh now more than ever when people say that President Bush lied about the WMD. If you had paid attention, the US military recently confirmed that all of the yellow cake uranium found in Iraq was disposed is Canada. Hmmm....I think thatthe uranium is used is making dirty bombs (WMD's) or else nukes (big WMD's). So, I don't think that there were any lies there.

shecky | 11:30 p.m. July 26, 2008

Cats----I am not a professional Bush hater. I do it voluntarily.

mark | 9:59 a.m. July 27, 2008

Redshirt, you do know what yellow cake is right? Tell me you are not just repeating someone else's comments with out really knowing what yellow cake is.
If you think it is WMD you better do some study.

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