Deseret News | Reader comments: That's the way the concrete crumbles

Reader comments
That's the way the concrete crumbles

That Quick? | 1:15 a.m. July 25, 2008

I have a 60 year old driveway with no problems.
This doesn't sound right to me.

Verona | 3:40 a.m. July 25, 2008

At our Ivory homes development in Orem quite a few of the homes have some serious issues with their driveways. Luckily mine doesn't.

The builders can say it isn't their fault but it is. They can hire concrete people that actually know what they are doing instead of going with the lowest bid.

And if sealing the concrete prevents it like it says in the article, then why don't the builders spend a couple of bucks and seal it?

Common | 8:20 a.m. July 25, 2008

I also live in a new Ivoy development and we have been in for 1 year. Three homes recently received new driveways because of settling and cracking (and mine is getting there).
I think the problem is with the subs that these builders hire. They do a very poor job because they are so rushed to meet deadlines. Then the builder spends double what they would had they done the job right in the first place.
As for warranties, Ivory covers exterior concrete if there are settling problems or if seperation occurs outside established parameters.

Comments continue below

DUHHHHHHHHHHH! | 8:50 a.m. July 25, 2008

You want a home built fast and you want it cheap, do you really think that it going to be built correctly. Next it will be your crappy water heater failing in 3 years followed by your crapper furnace & A/C only lasting 5 years. I just cridge whenever I hear Ivory Homes. I'll take my 35 year old green home over them anyday.

Buy used and go green!

There isn't a home being built today that is greener than buying a used home.

Homes are not consumer products | 9:39 a.m. July 25, 2008

In a housing boom, the crazy demand brings in all sorts of hacks who are not checked out fully. My sister went with a contractor who midway in the construction demanded more money to finish the job. She had done her homework, had a very detailed contract finished, and took on the contractor. By the time it was all done, she contractor had to either finish the job or lose his license. The work was finished.

Unfortunately it too often goes the other way.

Houses are not considered consumer products in the same way your care or XBox is. There isn't a return for refund option. There is logic to this, but it means there is risk. Eagle mountain has a lot of hack work. People bought the view, the seclusion and settled for template house built by contractors working with a drive-thru restaurant mentality.

Oh Puuuhleeese | 9:44 a.m. July 25, 2008

Regaring Duhhh.

The vast majority of the green material had only moved into prominence over the past 15 years. Rigid EPS insulation; Afterburner furnaces at 95% efficiency; OSB from 100% recycled material; Pavers using recycled rubber; Roof Membranes with 90% relectivity; Solar technology for homes is only now coming out with cost effective efficiency after 30 years of work.

To get this you need to ask for it and pay more, but the savings in your bills will pay for itself. For anybody to suggest that the Eagle Mountain problem is lack of green is just being silly. Going green is happening beacuse it makes good living sense. In many cases it is becoming the standard in homes.

Duhh is really missing the mark on this.

The concrete | 11:40 a.m. July 25, 2008

that is settling or cracking from the settling is entirely the fault of the contractor. If the subgrade is compacted and prepped correctly, the concrete should hold up just fine. The spalling and peeling of the surface is probably also the fault of the contractor. This is usually from placing the concrete way to wet, which makes it easier for the crew to lay it down and finish. When a quality crew preps and places concrete the "right" way, it should perform well for many years. But this will cost more or course. Sooooo you get what you pay for.

Parson's is a rip off | 12:48 p.m. July 25, 2008

The problem is not so much the contractor but the cement company. They are not held accountable for the quality of their product. If the cement is crap to begin with then it doesn't matter how it is finished it is going to fail. I'll bet this concrete can from Parson's, they don't care about quality. They have ripped off thousands of Utahns.
Everyone is quick to blame the contractors, but people need to look at where the cement came from. Parson's need to be held accountable for their product. It needs to be tested at the home site before it is poured. Then if a problem were to occur you would know if it was the product or the contractor. I would venture to guess that 90% or more is Parson's. Who ever is in charge of quality control at Parson's should rest easy at night knowing how many people he has ripped off!

Duhhhhhhh | 1:18 p.m. July 25, 2008

For Oh Puuuhleeese,

You might want to do a little math before you fall to the evil eviromentalist. (my definition of an eviromentalist is somebody that already has a cabin in the woods) There is nothing green about buying a new house, as long as used houses are on the market. Even if it has all the energy saving feature available. The entire concept of green and recylcling is using something until it wears out and with a house you can just replace worn out components as you go. Ohh and since I bought my house used it is 100% recycled no new home can say that. Plus if you buy a used house that has had the driveway installed more then 5 years ago you already know you won't have the problem of crappy driveways.

The "Green" movement is being made up by people trying to make money from people thinking they are doing what is "right". Green does not have to be expensive, example: you think you need a 3000sqft house, buy a 2500sqft one and instatnly you have a 17% savings on your energy bill.

Anonymous | 1:28 p.m. July 25, 2008

I live on the same street as the Shinkles and my driveway is doing the same thing. I think it is odd that every single house on our street that was built by Greg Hansen/Trade West has a problem with their concrete spalling and peeling. Greg doesn't care because he has already made his money. There are so many things wrong with our house that should have been corrected/fixed. Greg Hansen always has some excuse as to why it is not his problem. You can call him and leave message after message and he will not return your phone call. Again, he doesn't care because he has alreay made his money.

got ivory-ed | 1:52 p.m. July 25, 2008

Ivory's developments in Heber have the same problem...

Anonymous | 1:54 p.m. July 25, 2008

The substraight was not prepaired correctly, simple as that. I work in concrete and see this all to often. There should be at least 6 in of gravel followed by 12-15 inches of pea gravel on a driveway. then the pad should be 6-8 in thick. I have never had a problem when following that pattern. ever. problem is that you get cheap labor followed by cheap product,(they don't know what their doing) followed by cracks, spilting, warping, etc. Buy american, do research. Get what you pay for.

Twlilly | 2:16 p.m. July 25, 2008

From a very short experience plastering pools: In order to speed up the setting process of cement or plaster, some people will mix it "hot" add more than the normal amount of lime or other agent in order to speed up the chemical reaction. While it makes the substance set up quicker, it also makes it brittle and fall apart. To do it right takes time. Some people don't want to take the time.

Inspections?? | 3:39 p.m. July 25, 2008

On residential construction, many of the trades are put through a series of inspections for their work. When it comes to exterior concrete work: driveways, patios, sidewalk on "your" property, chances are there is not any inspection at all. This is where some concrete companies make a killing. Those important items to be constructed on your home receive nothing in the order of inspections. This means that anything can happen and usually does. There may be a chance that the concrete supplier is sending out an inferior product, but the concrete crew is mostly to blame. Without the proper supervision from the project superintendent or the concrete company representative, you can end up with a costly problem that will follow you for the life of that property. Track projects are the worst. Everything from the ground up is done in a "slam-dunk" type of operation. It's a roll of the dice if you can end up with a problem free home when it's done.

Scott | 4:33 p.m. July 25, 2008

Sub-base of 6" compacted fill (not dirt), rebar for reinforcing (not fibermesh), rebar placed 2" below the top and above the bottom, 4000# concrete mix design poured at no more than a 5" slump, do not overwork the surface when finishing, and cure correctly, ponded water being the best method. Absolutely will last beyond your lifetime. Salt is a no-no. Not too hard to do it right.

KEL | 5:25 p.m. July 28, 2008

I live in a 12 yr old house that has well done concrete both on the foundation and sidewalks, driveway, etc. I've lived in houses much older, about 50 to 75 yrs old with no such problems, too. AND, I've lived in a brand new home that basically fell apart. I have seen many homes where various defects were blamed on things beyond the builder's control but the excuses are often ludicrous. The builders will stonewall you with this garbage until you give up and all crucial deadlines to do anything about it, pass. Do not fall for it, get your complaint in writing and pursue it agressively. You will have to know your state's laws because some have "right to repair" laws that force you to jump thru some hoops. Also if your contract has an arbitration clause there are a few ways out but you have to research construction defects, home warranty, arbitration, etc, to find out. I settled my case but it took a lot of time and effort. Too many builders should not be in business.

ripped off | 1:07 p.m. July 29, 2008

the concrete company is at fault .. they shorted the mix for the exterior pour ...

they always do ... get paid the for the full load and mix and walk away

then the home owner is left to watch the concrete spall, pop and disappear leaving nothing like was expected to exist for years ...

todays market just doesnt build them like in the days gone past ... always cheap , short cuts and short loads and mixes ...

i batched concrete i know when the mix is short and rarely in this state does a job get the right stuff at the pour site

i too was ripped off on my new home concrete work ... real common in this state and nothing can be done about .. it is always the other guys fault or concern .. yea right

Home Owners for Better Building | 10:26 a.m. Aug. 7, 2008

I am shocked at the babble of this obviously unprofessional builder. Greg Hansen of Trade West insults the intelligence of readers and shows his incompetence in an attempt to avoid responsibility, to misinform the public and his customers. Hansonï¿½s statement is nonsense; ï¿½Concrete is always a builder's and a homeowner's nightmare because it is so hard to understand," Hansen said. "Concrete is very complicated. Typically on exterior concrete, because it is exposed to the weather and elements that are beyond our control, it is not warranted at all."

Concrete is hard to undunderstand ï¿½ very omplicated??? Letï¿½s get real, concrete is not rocket science. Ancient civilizations used the same basic components to mix concrete that still exist today. These are new houses. Clearly the builder and/or the concrete supplier decide to cut corners to increase profits and now use ludicrous excuses to try to avoid responsibility. This story needs a follow-up.
Janet Ahmad, president

givemeabreak | 11:20 a.m. Aug. 7, 2008

I was raised in a state where snow and ice storms were a yearly expectation. We along with almost everyone we knew used salt on the driveway and it was used throughout the city streets. Nothing ever happened to the driveway and the city streets did not buckle.
If you go through the sites of Homeowners for Better Building and Homeowners Against Deficient Dwellings you will see these kind of excuses are the norm, not the exception.

Help:0) | 6:17 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

My husband and I purchased our Ivory home one year (9/2007)this month, our driveway is in the beginning stages of cracking/crumbling. If you live in an Ivory home and have this problem please share the name of your community, how many homes affected & the result(fixed by Ivory or homeowner).

We can use all the information we can get, Thank you in advance for sharing insight!

sunken | 10:00 p.m. Sept. 17, 2008

Please somebody help me. My huge 21 months of age driveway is sinking. Three pads are already broken and down about 3 inches, the stairs are cracking, the parts that aren't lower are cracking too, 70% of all my exterior concrete is peeling off, big chunks of concrete are coming off and the worst is that my driveway is hollow underneath. I paid good money for my house and the warranty manager has told me that exterior concrete is not warranteable. Please somebody tell me that I still can get them to fix their mistakes. Who can help me? A lawyer, any homeowners association, my city? I'm so frustrated. Maybe the Newspaper should dig deeper on this problem to get to the bottom and push for better inspection laws or something better.

Anonymous | 10:29 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008

Plse somebody I need help also ..my drive way right side is sinking concrete crack bad I call ivory homes fax information and they said is not warranty. they said its been four yrs now. and paid $600.00 to compact during construction and now I need help how to settle this problem,,,,,plse email me at plmcfall@comcast.net

Adrienne | 8:17 a.m. Nov. 22, 2008

Ivory Homes Mill Road Estates- reportedly many concrete problems including settling, spawling and the like. Ivory representative has reportedly said "We fire anyone caught tamping concrete."

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