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Jeffs, FLDS members indicted in Texas
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JustTheFactsMaam | 1:29 a.m. July 23, 2008
Another whimpering failure of a day for the Texas KeyStone Cops.
This is ALL they've got? 6 men with almost all having only 1 count each?
Before trial, at trial and/or appeal, the 9 total counts will likely be whittled down to -0- convictions.
And the FLDS, just like Short Creek 1953 Part Two, will leave its wake MORE destroyed political and judicial careers. While they just keep on keeping on and growing larger than ever, as they have for 100+ years.
This is ALL they've got? 6 men with almost all having only 1 count each?
Before trial, at trial and/or appeal, the 9 total counts will likely be whittled down to -0- convictions.
And the FLDS, just like Short Creek 1953 Part Two, will leave its wake MORE destroyed political and judicial careers. While they just keep on keeping on and growing larger than ever, as they have for 100+ years.
Thomas | 2:10 a.m. July 23, 2008
Of Course, Angie Voss will never be indicted. And Texas Law you lost me with
your second paragraph.
Comments continue below
ItsAShame | 4:36 a.m. July 23, 2008
It's a shame that men like this can exploit those underage (women
primarily) and even teach this kind of thing to young men (and older men for
those involved). What are these people teaching our children?? No child
should be forced into marriage or even having sex at such a young age. Every
man involved should be prosecuted to the fullest. The mothers should be tried as
accomplices as they know what is going on and do nothing about it.
Thomas | 4:52 a.m. July 23, 2008
If this were about justice, they would indict Angie Voss. Because of what she
and her cohorts have done, those poor children will be traumatized for the rest
of their lives. The survivors of the 1953 Short Creek Raid are stll feeling its
effects.
Sleuth | 5:08 a.m. July 23, 2008
I loath the political expedience with which career-building politicians are
prosecuting these cases. Authorities have badges, guns, funds, law, the ability
to make laws, courts, and judges. Everything is in their favor and to their
advantages. Yet, in spite of all that, it has taken Texas more than 50 years and
a recent "Act of Congress" to muster cloaking their hatred for
"these people" in the law (in the interest of protecting these
particular womwen and children, of course), in order to prosecute them; hoping
that this will finally exterminate them.
After witnessng the flagrant voraciious lawlessness exhibited by Texas in the recent YFZ-FLDs raid and seizures, my faith in Texas state officials has been sorely shaken. Regardless, now the bottom-line is if individuals named, or any of them, have done as alleged, they need to be brougt to justice in the interst of the state.
The problem, however, is that even if the prosecution and conviction of these individuals is possible, it cannot and will not justify the state's havimg knowledge of the polygamous practices and permitting the same (including sex with "children), to openly persist unimpeded as if "unofficially sanctioned" for years.
After witnessng the flagrant voraciious lawlessness exhibited by Texas in the recent YFZ-FLDs raid and seizures, my faith in Texas state officials has been sorely shaken. Regardless, now the bottom-line is if individuals named, or any of them, have done as alleged, they need to be brougt to justice in the interst of the state.
The problem, however, is that even if the prosecution and conviction of these individuals is possible, it cannot and will not justify the state's havimg knowledge of the polygamous practices and permitting the same (including sex with "children), to openly persist unimpeded as if "unofficially sanctioned" for years.
Cats | 5:24 a.m. July 23, 2008
After many years of flaunting the law and exploiting and abusing women and
children, their chickens are finally coming home to roost.
Warren Jeffs and the other perpetrators are now being called to account before an earthly tribunal. I hope the State of Texas continues to follow through in bringing these individuals to justice. Of course, they will also be called to account, someday, before the judgment bar of Christ.
One can only continue to flaunt the law and live an immoral life for so long until it catches up. I hope the FLDS people will be able to face the truth now. That is that they have been following a false prophet and a criminal. Warren Jeffs has publicly admitted as much.
I applaud Flora Jessop, Elissa Wall, Carolyn Jessop and others who have had the courage to tell the truth and try to help those who are fleeing this oppressive society.
I sincerely hope these people can now be free and have a chance at a real life.
Warren Jeffs and the other perpetrators are now being called to account before an earthly tribunal. I hope the State of Texas continues to follow through in bringing these individuals to justice. Of course, they will also be called to account, someday, before the judgment bar of Christ.
One can only continue to flaunt the law and live an immoral life for so long until it catches up. I hope the FLDS people will be able to face the truth now. That is that they have been following a false prophet and a criminal. Warren Jeffs has publicly admitted as much.
I applaud Flora Jessop, Elissa Wall, Carolyn Jessop and others who have had the courage to tell the truth and try to help those who are fleeing this oppressive society.
I sincerely hope these people can now be free and have a chance at a real life.
CP | 5:50 a.m. July 23, 2008
Go get em Texas and round em up!! I saw the photos on the news of this wacked
out self proclaimed leader with those under age girls and it made me sick. Jeffs
for one should never be allowed to be with children at all. And it looks like
some of his male followers have ran away again with their tails between their
legs to hide from the law. They know they are guilty and that's why once
again - like Jeffs had done - are in hiding. Jeffs has already serving time in
Utah and now on trial in Arizona and now Texas has him too. I have no pity for
him or for any of the ones who have followed him. It's time to pay the
piper.
law-T-daw | 7:21 a.m. July 23, 2008
I will be interested to see what evidence from the seizures will end up be
admitted and what might be excluded as being obtained in violation of the
constitution.
Prosecutor | 7:23 a.m. July 23, 2008
Here's hoping the full weight of the law will fall on anyone that abuses or
offends "one of these little ones." Where's a mill stone when
you need it?
And here's hoping we in Utah learn from Texas authorities. This FLDS "church" is not some cute little anachronism that helps us reconnect with our roots. Rather, it's an abomination perpetrated on the ignorant by leaders engaged in open rebellion against God and decency.
These leaders, left to their own devices by their rebellion, have lifted up their own new god, one who sanctions a �prophet,� prepared for his office by depriving his own sister of �that which was most dear and precious above all things.�
Today this �prophet� speaks for his new god by bullying, lying to, cheating, and stealing from the poor mopes who follow him. He issues, in the name of his new god, �commandments� of the most despicable sort, requiring acts completely foreign, both to our roots, and to the norms of decent society.
Let "consenting adults" engage in whatever perversion they see fit, but the full weight of the law should fall hard on any of them that abuse children -- here or in Texas.
And here's hoping we in Utah learn from Texas authorities. This FLDS "church" is not some cute little anachronism that helps us reconnect with our roots. Rather, it's an abomination perpetrated on the ignorant by leaders engaged in open rebellion against God and decency.
These leaders, left to their own devices by their rebellion, have lifted up their own new god, one who sanctions a �prophet,� prepared for his office by depriving his own sister of �that which was most dear and precious above all things.�
Today this �prophet� speaks for his new god by bullying, lying to, cheating, and stealing from the poor mopes who follow him. He issues, in the name of his new god, �commandments� of the most despicable sort, requiring acts completely foreign, both to our roots, and to the norms of decent society.
Let "consenting adults" engage in whatever perversion they see fit, but the full weight of the law should fall hard on any of them that abuse children -- here or in Texas.
Anonymous | 7:29 a.m. July 23, 2008
Those poor girls...and all the dead babies. The immature body of a young girl
has a very difficult time giving birth. These men are selfish!
Brainwashed | 7:46 a.m. July 23, 2008
It shows just how brainwashed Jeffs' followers and apologists are that they
continue to support the sexual abuse of young girls by Jeffs and his buddies. No
matter how many times Jeffs is charged and convicted of real crimes, his
brainwashed followers will continue to believe that he is just a victim of
persecution.
Hopefully a few of them will wake up and realize the truth that Jeffs is just a con-artist and child-abusing pedophile.
Hopefully a few of them will wake up and realize the truth that Jeffs is just a con-artist and child-abusing pedophile.
JND | 8:07 a.m. July 23, 2008
Dear JustTheFactsMaam,
You wish!
It isn�t all they have; it�s all they�ve brought forward for now.
Unlike you, I�ll wager, I was in San Angelo yesterday at the Child Protective Services offices. The FLDS is toast.
You wish!
It isn�t all they have; it�s all they�ve brought forward for now.
Unlike you, I�ll wager, I was in San Angelo yesterday at the Child Protective Services offices. The FLDS is toast.
Cats | 8:12 a.m. July 23, 2008
One again, the FLDS are blogging and trying to convince the rest of us that some
terrible outrage has been committed against them.
I must admit I find it rather humorous that "Just the Facts Maam" is actually putting forth the idea that the FLDS are prospering and growing--like the rest of us can't see that they are nothing but a weird little cult of inbred people who are getting more isolated and weirder all the time. Do these people really think that the Lord would allow his work to turn into such a pathetic and insular little organization that is going nowhere fast?
I don't doubt that there will be those who will contintue to live in denial and practice the FLDS faith. I hope that there will be many who will now have a chance to get free of this bondage and have a real life. After so many years of brainwashing, it's going to be very difficult.
These criminals need to prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
I must admit I find it rather humorous that "Just the Facts Maam" is actually putting forth the idea that the FLDS are prospering and growing--like the rest of us can't see that they are nothing but a weird little cult of inbred people who are getting more isolated and weirder all the time. Do these people really think that the Lord would allow his work to turn into such a pathetic and insular little organization that is going nowhere fast?
I don't doubt that there will be those who will contintue to live in denial and practice the FLDS faith. I hope that there will be many who will now have a chance to get free of this bondage and have a real life. After so many years of brainwashing, it's going to be very difficult.
These criminals need to prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Sarah Lou | 8:19 a.m. July 23, 2008
Finally, the indictments. I suppose the evidence includes DNA and other
documentation found on the ranch during the raid. Texas is doing what Arizona
and Utah should have done but refused to because of the FLDS sympathizers
running their state governments.
good good good | 8:50 a.m. July 23, 2008
and about time too.
Jack | 8:56 a.m. July 23, 2008
These polygamist men are selfish, indulging and very evil men. It's a
shame they use women and god for their piggish filthy habits.
Karl | 9:09 a.m. July 23, 2008
For these polygamist child abusers to ruin so many lives and then tell the world
that "God" wanted them to live that way makes me sick.
I hope the child raping, beating, Kingston clan is next in line along with the other sick Polygs.
I hope the child raping, beating, Kingston clan is next in line along with the other sick Polygs.
dcc | 9:24 a.m. July 23, 2008
The FLDS men are not shameful they are serial sexual preditors. That's
felonius, not shameful.
And the women are victims but also accessories to the crimes and should be treated as such.
And the women are victims but also accessories to the crimes and should be treated as such.
Bruce | 9:40 a.m. July 23, 2008
When God's law comes in conflict with man's law, God's law must
come first.
The consequences of living higher laws must be paid. Everyone understands that.
Society's intended result = everyone stops practicing plural marriage.
The REAL result = Stronger devotion to the principle, increased membership from disgruntled mainstream mormons, and more secretive practices in the future.
The consequences of living higher laws must be paid. Everyone understands that.
Society's intended result = everyone stops practicing plural marriage.
The REAL result = Stronger devotion to the principle, increased membership from disgruntled mainstream mormons, and more secretive practices in the future.
Rita | 9:38 a.m. July 23, 2008
The ones that have charges against them should turn themselves in. If they have
"so much" faith.
This could turn out bad if a search warrant is issued for the compound to enter it to look for them.
Turn yourself in and defend yourself like you should.
This could turn out bad if a search warrant is issued for the compound to enter it to look for them.
Turn yourself in and defend yourself like you should.
Do you see reality here? | 10:03 a.m. July 23, 2008
"God" does not tell people to hurt others. "God" never
tells men to take more than one wife...that is their own secret desires. Yes,
they will be pushed into more "secret societies", but we will keep
battling them until they are gone for good (just like we will keep battling
terrorism)...it's close to the same thing, you know.
DUELING BANJOS | 10:07 a.m. July 23, 2008
yeah , yeah, just follow the law..if these guys were minorities in utah also
still walking around polys all ove the place..draper ..etc ..they would be
sitting in prison or court...where are the missionaries for these polys if Bruce
as you say living higher laws...the only law i see here is trying to skirt the
law...time to bring em all in for KIDS SAKE!
Reese | 10:05 a.m. July 23, 2008
The FLDS are true mormons, perhaps their leadership is flawed but still they
like the SL LDS are of the house of Isreal and the FLDS and the SL LDS need to
unite in strength to over come the gentiles and resist the gentile corruption of
the Lord's work and glory. The prophet Joseph Smith's work must go
forward and todays prophet, like Joshua. must knock down the walls of Jerico of
the gentiles.
Rebutting dcc and Reese | 10:29 a.m. July 23, 2008
The way you spell "felonious" is shameful. So are most felonies.
Remember Venn diagrams? Felonious and shameful are not mutually exclusive.
Your illogic obfuscates your valid point.
Reese -- good try. Spell Jericho and Israel correctly and you might annoy me.
Reese -- good try. Spell Jericho and Israel correctly and you might annoy me.
realitycheck | 10:33 a.m. July 23, 2008
I guess all the FLDS are too busy to post today. Only a couple of them (Reese,
JustTheFacts) and they seem fairly subdued.
and yes, Reese - sure, right - the Lord told you to marry 14 yr olds - and so you did. Good job. Now go to jail.
I don't think Joseph Smith ever said to abuse children - although I never met him, I'm pretty sure he was a lot better than that. Forced (or coerced) marriages of 14 yr olds is your own thing. Now perhaps you all will stop treating women and children as property and start treating them with the respect they deserve.
And while you're at it, how about stopping preaching for dozens of hours a day and let your people live normal lives? You all remind me of the old westerns where the preacher is marching down the dusty street with 50 uptight women holding Temperance League signs. You know, everyone that ever saw one of those scenes thought to themselves "boy I'm glad my mom's not like that".
Unfortunately, you moms and dads are just like that. Your children have my sympathy.
and yes, Reese - sure, right - the Lord told you to marry 14 yr olds - and so you did. Good job. Now go to jail.
I don't think Joseph Smith ever said to abuse children - although I never met him, I'm pretty sure he was a lot better than that. Forced (or coerced) marriages of 14 yr olds is your own thing. Now perhaps you all will stop treating women and children as property and start treating them with the respect they deserve.
And while you're at it, how about stopping preaching for dozens of hours a day and let your people live normal lives? You all remind me of the old westerns where the preacher is marching down the dusty street with 50 uptight women holding Temperance League signs. You know, everyone that ever saw one of those scenes thought to themselves "boy I'm glad my mom's not like that".
Unfortunately, you moms and dads are just like that. Your children have my sympathy.
anonymous | 10:35 a.m. July 23, 2008
I think if these were really God's chosen people, living the way God wanted
them to, God wouldn't make it so hard for them to do so. Seems to me,
given the turn of events, God's not in favor of child brides and the
oppression of women. These people seem to have confused God's will with
the will of a skeevy, inbred self-proclaimed "prophet".
Come into the 21st century | 10:38 a.m. July 23, 2008
and away from the religious brainwashing. It will hurt for awhile, but
it's really not that bad.
Gal50 | 10:53 a.m. July 23, 2008
Once again the Deseret News comes through with superior reporting. No other
article bothered to state the prison sentence for child rape which is an
essential part of the story. And, no other paper bothered to state that Texas is
seeking a rapid transfer of Jeffs, which is what it should be doing since the
Arizona case isn't as significant.
I find Willie Jessop's comment that as soon as the FLDS know the names of those indicted, they will appear to face the law, to lack credibility given how quickly the men fled Texas.
There is still the possibility that other than a handful of FLDS, no others will serve time in prison for the crimes they have committed. But still, they are not exactly getting away with crime. CPS is monitoring the children. Perhaps 2/3rds of the families are living off the ranch. The men have fled Texas and their families. The six statutory rape victims have been removed from their husbands and are back with their families. Six FLDS are wanted and many are living nervously, not knowing which six. The U.S. Senate is holding hearings tomorrow. The grand jury in Texas meets again next month.
I find Willie Jessop's comment that as soon as the FLDS know the names of those indicted, they will appear to face the law, to lack credibility given how quickly the men fled Texas.
There is still the possibility that other than a handful of FLDS, no others will serve time in prison for the crimes they have committed. But still, they are not exactly getting away with crime. CPS is monitoring the children. Perhaps 2/3rds of the families are living off the ranch. The men have fled Texas and their families. The six statutory rape victims have been removed from their husbands and are back with their families. Six FLDS are wanted and many are living nervously, not knowing which six. The U.S. Senate is holding hearings tomorrow. The grand jury in Texas meets again next month.
Misanthrope2 | 11:25 a.m. July 23, 2008
FLDS member Willie Jessop said Tuesday night. We think it's
ridiculous." He won't think it ridiculous when they lock them
up." These child rapists will run and hide just like their leader did.
Hope they catch them soon.
awesomeron | 11:32 a.m. July 23, 2008
1 Good Count is all it takes. Saves, Time, Saves Problems. Results in a long
sentence.
Misanthrope2 | 11:33 a.m. July 23, 2008
Funny how some non-lawyers pontificate that there will be no convictions and
that evidence will be excluded. As a real lawyer, I could not disagree more.
The fact that there are indictments means there is evidence that was admitted,
and there is nothing to show that any of the evidence will be excluded. People
pontificating with conclusory statements are not worthy of any consideration.
Hang these rapists high!
Hahahahaha | 11:55 a.m. July 23, 2008
Uh-Wake Up Call??? This is laughable-defending these crazies? These people are
incestual, perverted socieopaths, that use reliogion to justify their actions,
the same way the Taliban and all reliogious extemeists do. HELLO?! The fact
that towns like Colorado City still exist and continue to grow under the current
laws and morals that exist in our country is rediculous. It just shows how if a
virus is untreated, it will continue to plague and infect. The more I hear and
read about FLDS (both biased and non), the more I believe the whole gang of them
need to be brought through the courts and jailed for the stealing, fraudulent,
brainwashing, mysogenist psycho's they are. Maybe this is "The Great
Awakening" of the new century....hopefully anyway.
transplant | 11:58 a.m. July 23, 2008
Bruce: in this country there is no god's law. Religion is tolerated. God is
a religious concept. Not a secular one. We live under secular law. You can make
up any religion and dieties but they have nothing to do with our body of law.
Joey | 11:58 a.m. July 23, 2008
I just have to chuckle at all the persecutors on this board. In the end, out of
30 some teenage girls, five 17-year-olds happen to have been married a little
early. So it's a little more than the mainstream, or about on par with
inner city teen pregnancies. If it were systemic as you all claim, why are five
out of six teen girls at YFZ not married yet? Perhaps because they haven't
asked to be married? Either way, your ideas about "rape," "forced
marriage," and whatnot, certainly don't jive with the facts.
Hey now | 12:53 p.m. July 23, 2008
This has been going on for decades.How many young girls are in others states.I
remember being scared to death that I would have to be married before 18 to some
old man.And not have any choice in the matter either.You either did what you
were told or be condemed. It was God revelation given by the prophet. We that
woke up and left the insanity know the truth of what really happens on the
inside. So forget about defending the lies.We know the truth.
AH | 1:34 p.m. July 23, 2008
The State of Texas Marriage Age Requirement laws are as followed according to
Code Section �2.102 �2.101, 2.103:
Minimum Legal Age With Parental Consent Male: 14; Female: 14; (consent must be
given during 30 day period immediately preceding the date of application for
license).
Google: Texas Marriage Age Requirements Laws
Legally, it is their right as long as the parents give consent. Morally, in this time and age, it is considered unethical.
I am not condoning what their culture believes in, however, they moved down to Texas to be able to sustain their lifestyle, legally. The only reason why there has been an upbringing is because of a "hoax" phone call that is still under investigation; which led to more investigating for the remainder members.
We, as a society, are so quick to judge another without seeing the others' perspective. Judgment, as well as political correctness and debauchery will be the downfall of this society if we do not change our ways.
Google: Texas Marriage Age Requirements Laws
Legally, it is their right as long as the parents give consent. Morally, in this time and age, it is considered unethical.
I am not condoning what their culture believes in, however, they moved down to Texas to be able to sustain their lifestyle, legally. The only reason why there has been an upbringing is because of a "hoax" phone call that is still under investigation; which led to more investigating for the remainder members.
We, as a society, are so quick to judge another without seeing the others' perspective. Judgment, as well as political correctness and debauchery will be the downfall of this society if we do not change our ways.
Re: Joey | 1:43 p.m. July 23, 2008
Average teen pregnancy rates have NOTHING to do with the criminal practices
condoned by members the FLDS community.
The law is black and white on the definition of statutory rape. If the girls are underage, they're underage, and anyone forcing an underage girl into a sexual relationship is committing statutory rape.
We've moved past the blanket removal of children from the FLDS community. The criminal charges now are against individual members of the FLDS community, not the community as a whole.
It doesn't matter if only one girl or 50 girls were raped, everyone responsible should be brought to trial and be held accountable.
The law is black and white on the definition of statutory rape. If the girls are underage, they're underage, and anyone forcing an underage girl into a sexual relationship is committing statutory rape.
We've moved past the blanket removal of children from the FLDS community. The criminal charges now are against individual members of the FLDS community, not the community as a whole.
It doesn't matter if only one girl or 50 girls were raped, everyone responsible should be brought to trial and be held accountable.
Reader | 2:00 p.m. July 23, 2008
My, my Warren Jeffs, how things have unraveled for you the last couple of years.
Couldn't happen to a greasier person.
Sleuth | 2:14 p.m. July 23, 2008
I doubt many who are commenting here could honestly qualify for jury selection
in these pending trials, without lying about their predisposition in these
matters. How "fair," impartial and objective will the jury be?
While nothing short of "special circumstances" should excuse any defendant for willfully violating the law, it would be good if legal prosecution for each defendant be given equal consideration and protection each of those commenting would expect for themselves.
Is it possible for the defendants to escape mass misapplied opinions formed before hand, the dislikes stirred by media bias and the holding of ill-informed knowledge and irrational feelings against these individuals before trial? With public opinion so rabid and diametrical toward the defendants, why hold a trial? Why not just charge in with troopers, guns, "patty-wagons" and ropes with nooses? Oh that's right; they have already tried that debacle, right?
So if at first you don't succeed, try and try and try and try again, ad infinitum vomitus.
While nothing short of "special circumstances" should excuse any defendant for willfully violating the law, it would be good if legal prosecution for each defendant be given equal consideration and protection each of those commenting would expect for themselves.
Is it possible for the defendants to escape mass misapplied opinions formed before hand, the dislikes stirred by media bias and the holding of ill-informed knowledge and irrational feelings against these individuals before trial? With public opinion so rabid and diametrical toward the defendants, why hold a trial? Why not just charge in with troopers, guns, "patty-wagons" and ropes with nooses? Oh that's right; they have already tried that debacle, right?
So if at first you don't succeed, try and try and try and try again, ad infinitum vomitus.
Weatherizer | 2:28 p.m. July 23, 2008
Sleuth, sounds like you are quite the sympathizer for these alleged criminals.
Your line of reasoning was "ad infinitum vomitus." And by the way, it
is "paddy" wagons, not "patty" wagons.
Re: Sleuth | 2:36 p.m. July 23, 2008
Thankfully, I won't have to sit on the jury for these child abusers so
I'm free to express my opinion.
Jeffs and his buddies are finally being brought to justice for sexually abusing young girls. What make this even more disgusting is that they're claiming that God told them to abuse the girls.
Jeffs and his buddies are finally being brought to justice for sexually abusing young girls. What make this even more disgusting is that they're claiming that God told them to abuse the girls.
re; hey now | 2:40 p.m. July 23, 2008
EVERYONE that has lived in southern Utah for awhile, knows the truth about
these sick pervs....
we'll see if the men indicted will continue to hide. I hope they do because it will give law enforcement in Texas and in Utah the probable cause to go in and have a look.
CUT OFF THE WELFARE! if you take the free money out of the mess, Colorado city and Hildale will dry up and blow away
we'll see if the men indicted will continue to hide. I hope they do because it will give law enforcement in Texas and in Utah the probable cause to go in and have a look.
CUT OFF THE WELFARE! if you take the free money out of the mess, Colorado city and Hildale will dry up and blow away
Anon 808 | 2:48 p.m. July 23, 2008
I have learned over the years that it is not only the Law that matters but the
enforcement of the Law. Great Job Texas.
a lot of FLDS posting | 3:11 p.m. July 23, 2008
today as they normally do when the subject comes up.
Texas Law | 3:26 p.m. July 23, 2008
To AH | 1:34 p.m. July 23, 2008:
You forget that Texas also has laws against bigamy and consanguity. Read my first post - most of these "marriages" violate both of these things. Texas is not discriminating against them - these laws have been on the books since the early 1800s. Parental consent isn't the only thing required.
You forget that Texas also has laws against bigamy and consanguity. Read my first post - most of these "marriages" violate both of these things. Texas is not discriminating against them - these laws have been on the books since the early 1800s. Parental consent isn't the only thing required.
Think!!!! | 4:30 p.m. July 23, 2008
Get real!!! "Texas is not discriminating against them...!" WOW!!!
LET'S SEE HOW HIGH YOU'D SCREAM IF SOMEONE CAME BARGING INTO YOUR HOME
AND TOOK YOUR FAMILY FOR TWO MONTHS WITH ONLY A COMMUNAL SEARCH WARRENT!!! THEN
TRY USING THE EVIDENCE AND THREATENING YOU WIFE AND THE REST OF YOUR FAMILY TO
TESTIFY AGAINST YOU OR GO TO JAIL THEMSELVE!!!
MY, MY, MY!!! HOW TOUGH YOU SOUND UNTIL IT HAPPENS TO YOU!!! OH, AND YES, IT HAS BEEN HAPPENING TO OTHER FAMILIES BESIDES JUST THE FLDS--READ ABOUT THEM ON THE TRUTHWILLPREVAIL SITE AND GET EDJUCATED BEFORE YOU SO QUICKLY CONDEMN. I'D GUESS A PRETTY FAIR GUESS THAT ALL THOSE ON THIS BOARD THAT ARE SO QUICK TO HAVE THEIR SAY, HAVE SKELETONS IN THEIR CLOSETS. (FIGURATIVELY SPEAKING.)
MY, MY, MY!!! HOW TOUGH YOU SOUND UNTIL IT HAPPENS TO YOU!!! OH, AND YES, IT HAS BEEN HAPPENING TO OTHER FAMILIES BESIDES JUST THE FLDS--READ ABOUT THEM ON THE TRUTHWILLPREVAIL SITE AND GET EDJUCATED BEFORE YOU SO QUICKLY CONDEMN. I'D GUESS A PRETTY FAIR GUESS THAT ALL THOSE ON THIS BOARD THAT ARE SO QUICK TO HAVE THEIR SAY, HAVE SKELETONS IN THEIR CLOSETS. (FIGURATIVELY SPEAKING.)
Alex | 4:48 p.m. July 23, 2008
To "Texas Law":
"You forget that Texas also has laws against bigamy and consanguity. "
How do they enforce that on the FLDS if their plural marriages aren't even registered with the state? Granted, you can argue for bigamy on cohabitation grounds, but the courts have been striking down cohabitation laws as unconstitutional.
Now I'm all for prosecuting these cases of statutory rape, abuse, etc., but I fail to see how bigamy laws can even be enforced anymore. If you can't enforce cohabitation laws against homosexuals, you can't enforce them against a religious group either. After all, if the gay marriage rulings in this country are any indication, marriage is now a sexual arrangement with benefits rather than a union that offers legal protections and responsibilities for the parents and potential natural children. (Yes, I know homosexuals can adopt and that lesbians can bear children from other men.)
"You forget that Texas also has laws against bigamy and consanguity. "
How do they enforce that on the FLDS if their plural marriages aren't even registered with the state? Granted, you can argue for bigamy on cohabitation grounds, but the courts have been striking down cohabitation laws as unconstitutional.
Now I'm all for prosecuting these cases of statutory rape, abuse, etc., but I fail to see how bigamy laws can even be enforced anymore. If you can't enforce cohabitation laws against homosexuals, you can't enforce them against a religious group either. After all, if the gay marriage rulings in this country are any indication, marriage is now a sexual arrangement with benefits rather than a union that offers legal protections and responsibilities for the parents and potential natural children. (Yes, I know homosexuals can adopt and that lesbians can bear children from other men.)
Unbelievable | 5:32 p.m. July 23, 2008
The FLDS ARE NOT MORMONS! Please quit saying that. They are NOT TRUE MORMONS
either.
They are a break off group of rebellious people who chose to NOT live according the the laws of the land, and who chose NOT to live by GOD's Law either.
This garbage that they live a higher law and not live according to what a society says they should is untrue.
They (FLDS) want an excuse and use "their" religion (NOT MORMON RELIGION)as a back up or a way to hide the abuse that is inflicted on these underage "Children."
I would agree that mothers who knowingly give their daughters to a grumpy old man should be tried as well. What a joke.
Right is right and wrong is wrong.
Any jury in their right mind will put these evil people and their practices behind bars for life.
The children need to be free and need to be able to wait until they are of legal age and "Choose" who they wish to marry.
They are a break off group of rebellious people who chose to NOT live according the the laws of the land, and who chose NOT to live by GOD's Law either.
This garbage that they live a higher law and not live according to what a society says they should is untrue.
They (FLDS) want an excuse and use "their" religion (NOT MORMON RELIGION)as a back up or a way to hide the abuse that is inflicted on these underage "Children."
I would agree that mothers who knowingly give their daughters to a grumpy old man should be tried as well. What a joke.
Right is right and wrong is wrong.
Any jury in their right mind will put these evil people and their practices behind bars for life.
The children need to be free and need to be able to wait until they are of legal age and "Choose" who they wish to marry.
realitycheck | 5:45 p.m. July 23, 2008
re - Think!!! 4:30pm
No need to yell. You sound all frustrated. Not looking forward to jail? Sorry - you should have thought of that before you handed over kids to some guy (you call prophet) to trade for favors, and before you let him reassign women and children to a "new father" (amongst other things) for the same reason.
and yeah - we believe everything on the truthwillprevail website.
Face it - you can't screw up people like you have been doing for years. You're complaining about CPS for 2 months? What about your practices for the last 20+ years? (and I'm being conservative and giving you the benefit of the doubt...)
By the way - did you ever ask your"prophet" how he got these "revelations"? Did he dream them? If so, I have revelations every night. Did they show up as a note in his mailbox? If so, I wouldn't believe him. Matter of fact, unless he showed you stone tablets, why would you believe it? Isn't he the son of your last prophet? You really think "prophesizing" is a hand-me-down ability?
If you all would just take the time to think.....
No need to yell. You sound all frustrated. Not looking forward to jail? Sorry - you should have thought of that before you handed over kids to some guy (you call prophet) to trade for favors, and before you let him reassign women and children to a "new father" (amongst other things) for the same reason.
and yeah - we believe everything on the truthwillprevail website.
Face it - you can't screw up people like you have been doing for years. You're complaining about CPS for 2 months? What about your practices for the last 20+ years? (and I'm being conservative and giving you the benefit of the doubt...)
By the way - did you ever ask your"prophet" how he got these "revelations"? Did he dream them? If so, I have revelations every night. Did they show up as a note in his mailbox? If so, I wouldn't believe him. Matter of fact, unless he showed you stone tablets, why would you believe it? Isn't he the son of your last prophet? You really think "prophesizing" is a hand-me-down ability?
If you all would just take the time to think.....
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First, although the crime alleged was committed 3+ years ago (3 years is the normal statute of limitations for felonies in Texas), sexual misconduct with a child does not have a statute of limitations in Texas.
Second, Texas law does permit parents to consent to their child's marriage or informal (common law) marriage when they are underage. In the FLDS community, Jeffs readily gets this consent. However, Texas law absolutely prohibits marriage or informal marriage to multiple spouses (bigamy) or to direct or ascendants or descendants or to uncles and aunts, cousins, siblings, stepchildren or former children, or nieces nephews. That's why Jeffs couldn't do what he is alleged to have done.
Finally, some may find it weird that the FLDS women went in to the grand jury without their lawyers, and came in and out of the courthouse multiple times. Texas law does not allow lawyers in the courtroom during grand jury proceedings (except the prosecutor). After all, grand jury proceedings are merely to find probable cause, not convict. However, witnesses are allowed to consult with their attorneys during questioning if they request it.