Deseret News | 'Mormon-friendly' colleges planned for Nevada, Nauvoo

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'Mormon-friendly' colleges planned for Nevada, Nauvoo

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HAVE FAITH | 9:27 a.m. July 24, 2008

Why i find alot the words 'LDS VALUES'?Does this mean LDS got so much values?IN what way?I just find the church teaches its members too much suspicious things over other faith.That make them sooooo scared to get close people other than their own folks.Whats wrong with you all?Its so funny knowing what's inside the hearts and minds of LDS ppl.You acted like superiour.You said your faith is the strongest,but the fact is here in the comments you all sent.Try to be relax and enjoy life.JESUS came because of the sinners.Dont you all remember,faith without action is dead? you all say alot about 'true gospel,high moral standard etc'.Whats that all for if you dont have faith?Sticking to oneselves show your insecurities.Learn to be brave.The world is here to be explored.Have faith,and you sure will survive in whatever place you may be in.

SVU Mom of Two | 9:32 a.m. July 24, 2008

It was mentioned that planned institutions of higher learning would cater to students who were not accepted at BYU or BYU-I like Southern Virginia University "SVU" does. Two of my daughters attend SVU. Their test scores, grades, and other activities more than qualified them for any BYU campus. In fact, acceptance to BYU-Provo and UNC Chapel Hill among other top schools were declined by my daughters to attend SVU. Both my daughters, beautiful, capable, athletic, musically talented (I could go on forever, they are my children!)could have chosen even Ivy League schools to attend. SVU was chosen because my daughters love being within six hours of their family (especially their baby sister!) among other reasons i.e. class size, medical school acceptance ratio of SVU graduates, cultural opportunities, socialization with other LDS students, etc. So please, please when mentioning these planned institutions, understand one thing, bright, talented BYU-accepted students do turn down BYU and other nationally top ranked schools to attend SVU. I suspect that other bright and talented students will also decline BYU acceptance to study in these other "Mormon-friendly" colleges for many of the same reasons my daughters did.

Artes Liberalis part one | 9:37 a.m. July 24, 2008

Basically, all accreditation agencies in the US are non governmental, private institutions. There are agencies that are "recognized by the U.S. Secretary of Education as a ï¿½reliable authority as to the quality of postsecondary educationï¿½ within the meaning of the Higher Education Act of 1965, as amended (HEA)."

A college does not have to seek accreditation. Even the US Department of Education admits on their site that some colleges do not seek accreditation:"The database does not include a number of postsecondary educational institutions and programs that elect not to seek accreditation but nevertheless may provide a quality postsecondary education."

My personal experience has demonstrated to me that accreditation does not equal quality.

Neither of these two new schools have opened yet. Therefore no one is qualified to judge the quality of that which is not yet offered. In Nauvoo's case, they are renewing the charter that has been dormant for 162 years. "Accreditation will be rigorously pursued.." "Dr. Ivie Evan L. Ivie holds a BS and a BES magna cum laude from Brigham Young University. He has an MS from Stanford University and a PhD from MIT." He comprehends the enormity of the task at hand.

Comments continue below

Concerned parent & Teacher | 9:40 a.m. July 24, 2008

I think another Church centered College would be great! There are a number of young people who do get lost in the shuffle from High School Seminary to Institute at College. Not all colleges have institute so readily available for the young adults. If a young adult is the quiet, humble, and reserved individual, they might just get lost in the shuffle of a non LDS school. I personally have seen this over and over again in Idaho. I am anxious to see if these colleges take root like the one in Virginia.

Alex | 9:40 a.m. July 24, 2008

Thank you, hurst5. My sentiments exactly.

Artes Liberalis (or Liberal Arts | 10:05 a.m. July 24, 2008

"My personal experience has demonstrated to me that accreditation does not equal quality."

I should have said, does not "guaranty" that your courses will be of high quality, or that your credentialed teachers can or will fulfill their duties.

That said, students can get more scholarship opportunities when attending accredited schools and foreign students can get student visas. So, seeking accreditation can be a benefit to students, and the institutions.

I am optimistic. All educational institutions are businesses. I am sure Dr. Ivie has done his homework on this endeavor. Something of this magnitude does not happen over night.

The state legislature of Illinois originally gave a
charter to the city of Nauvoo in Dec 1840 which included the setting up a a University. This has been dormant for 162 years. This is not a "new" dream. Dr. Ivie is picking up the baton.

Those who say it cannot be done are often interrupted by someone doing it.

Reality | 10:19 a.m. July 24, 2008

Those who can't get into BYU can always go to the U of U.

Rose Voigt | 10:38 a.m. July 24, 2008

Sounds wonderful. One daughter attended SVU and loved her experiance. Another attended an instate college where most everyone smoke, drank, cussed, and well, etc. It was a lonely struggle for this faithful young lady not to have the spiritual support and environment available at LDS based schools. As for institute, it doesn't help much when the range of LDS students is 1-8 per semester. Maybe some people just don't realize how sparse members are in some areas of the US. I can't think of a better place than Nauvoo for us midwesterners. Best of luck!

What is Liberal Arts Ed? Part I | 10:43 a.m. July 24, 2008

Some of us have dabbled in writing about "liberal Arts" on the assumption we all know what they are about. No, we are not talking about Liberal versus conservative.

The Mega University with tens of thousands of students and a plethora of specialized degrees is a very recent phenomenon. Prior to WWII most colleges and even universities were much smaller. Due to the GI Bill colleges and universities expanded in exponential growth.

Aside from teachers colleges and aggi schools, prior to WWII most undergraduate programs were liberal arts programs. These programs were designed to educate a person with a broad education and prepare them to be active, contributing members of society. Specialization was usually the function of post graduate professional schools.

Since WWII specialization has resulted in the dumbing down and diminishing of liberal arts education under the name of general education requirements. Dumbed down, yes. We have streamlined the course, minimized their value to multiple guess tests, and they have become for many students, something to be endured, rather than a door to real learning.

A student with a true "Liberal Arts" education is an educated man, indeed. more in the next post...

Aaron | 10:46 a.m. July 24, 2008

as an LDS never having attended an LDS institution,
I can't say I understand why an LDS themed school would be better educationally,socially or spiritually than a secular institution.
I really enjoyed sharing my beliefs and hearing about others beliefs while attending college.

Well I suppose those who may be prone being swayed from their testimony by other beliefs and outlooks on life are better off in a more sheltered institution.

What is Liberal Arts Ed? P II | 10:56 a.m. July 24, 2008

Friends, I came across a book published in 1959, and thought I would share its preface with you. The bookï¿½ AN INTRODUCTION TO THE GREAT BOOKS AND TO A LIBERAL EDUCATION: THE GREAT IDEAS PROGRAM. As a young mother, I saw this program move into schools as enrichment for gifted children. I feel that this was lamentable. Why? I feel that most citizens can benefit from this kind of education. Why just children and why just gifted children? I feel Hutchinsï¿½ message is just as true today, as then, when he was President of the University of Chicago. This message is so important! Especially, as we look to solve the dilemmas that face us in education. He lived through WWII and saw what happens when you have a highly specialized society that lacked a truly liberal education, as did pre WWII Germany.

LDS have been counseled to get all the education they can get, I hope we do not translate to narrow specialization only.

I want to quote Hutchins but it will have to be in another post.

metamoracoug | 11:02 a.m. July 24, 2008

To re: metamoracoug at 7:16. Obama is an IL senator. I reside in IL. I know his background as well as one is capable of determining through the liberally-biased media.

He attended Muslim instructed schools as a youth. He did not begin attending Christian churches until it became politically expedient.

But that still begs the question: how can we reject a Mormon because he's not Christian enough, but have no problem supporting a Muslim background, extremist Christian?

What is Liberal Arts Ed? PIII | 11:02 a.m. July 24, 2008

Here is the preface of the bookï¿½

ï¿½ This first Reading Plan is called A General Introduction to the Great Books and to a Liberal Education.

What is Liberal Education? It is easy to say what it is not. It is not specialized education, not vocational, avocational, professional, or preprofessional. It is not an education that teaches a man how to do any specific thing.

I am tempted to say that it is an education that no American gets in an educational institution nowadays. We are all specialist now. Even early in high school we are told that we must begin to think how we are going to earn a living, and the prerequisites that are supposed to prepare us for that activity become more and more ingredients of our educational diet..." More in the next post

What is Liberal Arts Ed? PIV | 11:03 a.m. July 24, 2008

More of the quote.
"I am afraid that we shall have to admit that the educational process in America is either a rather pleasant way of passing time until we are ready to work, or a way of getting ready for some occupation, or a combination of the two. What is missing is an education to be human beings, education to make the most of our human powers, education for our responsibilities as members of a democratic society, education for freedom.

This is what Liberal Education is. It is the education that prepares you to be free men. You have to have this education if you are going to be happy; for happiness consists in making the most of yourself. You have to have this education if you are going to be a member of the community; for membership in the community implies the ability to communicate with others. You have to have this education if you are going to be an effective citizen of democracy..." More

Close-minded critics | 11:06 a.m. July 24, 2008

I fail to see the logic of anyone opposing either of these proposed colleges. Many, many religious groups have established colleges for students who share their religious ideals.

The fact that they will be "Mormon-friendly" colleges, instead of "Catholic-friendly" or "Baptist-friendly" or "Christian-friendly" or "Seventh-Day-Adventist-friendly" is really of no concern to anyone except to the students who choose to attend the colleges.

These colleges will succeed or fail on their own merits.

I'm very glad to see a "Mormon-friendly" college being established in Nauvoo. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see many students from other schools --like BYU, Utah, Utah State, and other universities -- spending a semester or two in Nauvoo to experience the history and culture of Nauvoo.

Former Zoobie | 11:10 a.m. July 24, 2008

Great, more schools that pretend to teach the gospel, but really teach conformity.

When I went to BYU, a kid didn't stop for the national anthem one morning, and he was chased, knocked down, and held down by a pair of overzealous students. Most of my ward didn't think it was wrong (I asked), and the students didn't get kicked out.

On the other hand, some of my best make-out sessions in my life came from the girls there. So, you pays your money, you takes your choice.

Miss Nitpic | 11:15 a.m. July 24, 2008

It would be a good idea to proof read your comments before you send them. The spelling and grammar in these posts is atrocious. Did you say that you went to college or university? I guess that they have better things to teach than spelling and grammar. One of you needs to learn the difference between "except" and "accept"

Mapao valley decendent | 11:12 a.m. July 24, 2008

To Moapa Valley resident:

:whoosh:

(that was the sound of my post flying over your head.) ;-)

Yes I know there is a theater with one screen that was open on weekends. I went to a few movies there growing up. But it closed. If it re-opened, well -that is great. lol

I know there is a high school there too, my dad graduated from it and my mom taught at it. Now what does having a high school say about whether or not someplace is a good place for a jr college . . .well none really. My point was that this BYU lite jr. college would be a good thing for the valley, not a bad thing. Maybe the burger king would re-open, cause I dont like McDOnalds. ;-P

Anonymous | 11:13 a.m. July 24, 2008

"...for citizenship requires that you understand the world in which you live and that you do not leave your duties to be performed by others living vicariously and vacuously on their virtue and intelligence. A free society is a society composed of free men. To be free you have to be educated for freedom. This means that you have to think; for the free man is one who thinks for himself. It means that you have to think, for example, about the aims of life and organized society."

"... For every specialist is trained in the jargon of his specialty...The old definition of a specialist as a man who knows more and more about less and less is only too correct."

"The Constitution of the United States does not require that all citizens should be experts in everything. But its major premise, without which the whole democratic structure must collapse, is that people will be informed enough, and interested enough to judge the policies proposed to them by those whom they have chosen, with information, intelligence, and interest, to represent them."

I feel most General Ed classes fall short. We need some great Liberal Arts schools.

What is Liberal Arts Ed? PVI | 11:15 a.m. July 24, 2008

Oops I forgot to continue in the topic line and my post was anon.

metamoracoug | 11:16 a.m. July 24, 2008

to metamoracoug @ 6:12 @ 7:34

To anyone who doubts my stance that LDS youth need to be exposed and sheltered, I grew up in MN. In a graduating class of 555 kids, I was the ONLY active LDS. There was one other mormon kid whose parents had gone off the deep end (dad was bishop in PA but now very anti). I understand the challenges associated with being a minority and attempting to live by church standards under such conditions.

That is precisely why I would favor AND SUPPORT an LDS-oriented university in Nauvoo. As noted by the returned missionary above who served in Nauvoo, anti-mormon bias here is not much changed since they killed Joe Smith in Carthage. Visit the Nauvoo Christian Center sometime (militantly anti). It would be an eye opening experience for some UT Mormons.

A university in Nauvoo would provide both opportunities for students to rub elbows with each other, as well as non-LDS neighbors. Protected environment . . . but not. Bringing in well-educated LDS professors would help alleviate the common perception that mormons are mindless robots or rubes.

mom2boyz | 11:51 a.m. July 24, 2008

Having your "Mormon-friendly" schools then turns into "Mormon-friendly" towns and they eventually make it into a church-state. Which is why they found so much resistance in Missouri and elsewhere and were driven out. When will Mormons ever live amongst all of us Gentiles and not feel that we are less than they are? Get over yourselves.

KDee | 11:56 a.m. July 24, 2008

While this seems like a positive idea, I don't believe all LDS kids need to be so set apart at the University level. I was accepted at BYU as well as other universities and chose to attend one of the University of California campuses. I met my returned missionary husband (a BYU graduate attending grad school at UC)while attending a UC school....we married in the temple, are well educated and are active in the church. If anything, attending a non LDS school simply strengthened my testimony. Not every LDS young adult I attended school with is active, but most are, and many who were inactive at the beginning became active through the efforts of the members of our University Ward. The LDS Institute Program of the church is remarkable as well. I do have a child at BYU who absolutely loves it. BYU is an exceptional university. Attending a new upstart LDS-related college may make finding a job in the real world somewhat more difficult initially.

M.A. History | 12:03 p.m. July 24, 2008

High school seminary and college Institute are wastes of time. All kids learn from it (all I learned from it) is to be cliquish and to believe a bunch of lies about history! The LDS perspective on history--both Utah/Mormon history and world history--are laughable among those who really know history. I too graduate history courses and was literally laughed at when I spouted off the fables I was taught in seminary and institute! When I tried to defend the Church and its perspective on History, I gave my professors and fellow students a lot of good laughs! Most of them tried to be kind and showed me the error of my indoctrination through reliable historical work and valid sources, but it was a long, embarassing educational process.

I think LDS kids need to stop separating themselves and learn to have a dialog with non-Mormons. We (you) cannot be an island unto yourselves!

I have not attended Church since I graduated with my Master's degree. I find it a waste of time.

gferguson | 12:05 p.m. July 24, 2008

I attended BYU many years ago after going to high school in a very non-LDS environment where the only other church member in any of my high school classes was my sister. I strongly disagreed with those who sent their kids to BYU for "protection" against the world. On the other hand, I saw great educational value in my ability at BYU to pursue truth/knowledge through both secular and spiritual means. That is something that I have continued to value throughout my life. After BYU, I pursued graduate studies at UCLA and had a good educational experience there also, but I appreciate the value that came from my BYU experience. I don't know whether these new colleges will provide a good educational experience, but I do hope that people realize that there are other reasons besides keeping one's self (or one's kids) separate from the world for going to a Christian university.

MOAPA!??? | 12:12 p.m. July 24, 2008

As an active member of the church in Las Vegas, I can't imagine greater job opportunities will follow attending a private LDS related school in Moapa Valley....This won't look too hot on your resume. We live in the world....but don't have to be of the world. You can obey the commandments, "keep your nose clean," and have opportunities to share the gospel at other universities if you aren't accepted at BYU. It is a personal choice to do what's right...young people need to have enough backbone to do what's right and focus on staying worthy to have and maintain a temple recommend. Some kids get themselves into as much trouble attending BYU as any other school.....because it is their choice. Youth have to learn to live in the real world and choose the right on their own.

Nauvoo amenities | 12:21 p.m. July 24, 2008

Fort Madison is about 9 miles and across the river from Nauvoo. There are plenty of grocery stores there. And I believe Fort Madison also has a few gas stations.

Then there's Mount Pleasant just up Highway 218 which is large enough for a Wal-Mart, if you really want to range far afield.

to artes liberalis | 12:30 p.m. July 24, 2008

So they taught you to spell "guarantee" with a "-y" at your liberal arts institution?

AZ Cougar | 12:34 p.m. July 24, 2008

While the idea of building a start-up institution with BYU like standards is noble, one has to wonder how seriously these folks have looked at the economics of running a college or university. They will have to have very deep pockets. The cost of land acquisition and construction alone is daunting in this day and age. In terms of income stream, they will be limited to tuition and fees and charitable giving and these are not good economic times for the latter. Several years ago, the LDS church wisely backed away from plans to build 6-10 junior colleges in different locations patterned after the Ricks College model. It simply didn't make economic sense. Realistically, how many parents will be willing to pay Ivy League comparable tuition rates for education at a non-accredited institution?
There is much to be said for a quasi BYU experience but it can be acheived in another, more economical way. College students can get a first rate secular education either close to home or out of state at top notch institutions and can still enjoy the benefits of a spiritual and cultural experience through the Institute program. Financially weak BYU wannabes are not the answer.

Ladyblueyes | 12:54 p.m. July 24, 2008

to: SRas

BRAVO! Love the idea of starting LDS based schools in South America or Africa. Education is the answer in so many areas.

And bravo to ALL of those who suggest attending institute at all the colleges - Yes, there are temptations everywhere. What an opportunity to grow and strengthen testimonies.

I wish I had the attention span to attend college. But 5 minutes into anything and I'm off and running in another direction. Good thing I own my own business ... I do hire the youth to help out, especially those getting ready to go to college or on their missions.

K | 1:20 p.m. July 24, 2008

There are Newman centers on many public college/universities to help Catholics practice their faith and be connected to other Catholics. Does the LDS church do this for it's members?

Anonymous | 1:33 p.m. July 24, 2008

I still don't understand what "Mormon-friendly" would mean. Unless the LDS Church endorses these schools and supports them, there is no way these "private" schools can possibly require Bishop's interviews and such.

Could you imagine University of North Carolina rejecting your application because you "failed to get a Bishop's interview form signed"??!

Canada | 1:39 p.m. July 24, 2008

Fantastic! How exciting. More schools of this type...wonderful.1

Adrienne | 1:40 p.m. July 24, 2008

I think the Institutes that are adjacent to most colleges and universities are a good thing for LDS students. I'm not LDS myself, but I have had good friends who went to the local university and managed to retain their beliefs. They also likely attended a ward with other single adults, and this is outside of Utah, at a state university.

In but not of? | 1:49 p.m. July 24, 2008

"In the world, but not of the world" translates to LDS young adults attending universities throughout the country. Attend Institute, attend your church meetings, lean on your own testimony, learn to discern between what is good and what is not, and learn to interact with the many good people who are not of our faith with good ideas and values. Not going to BYU or BYU-I or H is not the worst thing that can happen to a mormon college student despite what some may think. I attended a State run university becuase I chose it over attending BYU and had a wonderful experience. I also heard about plenty of "naughty" things going on at the "Y" from friends. Point is, a person will usually find what they seek out. I think too many "LDS based" schools sends a message that we are an exclusive and intolerant people who only want to socialize with our own kind. The best way to make a difference in the world is to go out and participate in it to bring about positive change. Think of our vast missionary effort-we go to the people rather than waiting for them to contact to us.

Classicalmusic | 1:55 p.m. July 24, 2008

I have but two things to offer the forward thinking individual on this subject:
(1) "Can anything good come from Nazareth?" And, (2) "... prepare ye, prepare ye for that which is to come."
I am intimately familiar with both proposed venues being discussed, and as far as education per se is concerned, either location would suitable. However, if one is shopping for an institution with other characteristics in mind, then so be it. The "LDS-friendly" campus atmosphere does not necessarily preclude objective scholarship as some would proffer. In point-of-fact, it could be a stimulus in that regard. Nothing being proposed is calulated to preclude a student's involvement in LDS Institute. What's being offered are additional choices -- not less fun.

Zoar | 2:03 p.m. July 24, 2008

Why said:

ï¿½Why does everyone think that they need a "Mormon-Friendly" school to go to? I think that this just continues the myth that Mormons like to segregate themselves from everyone else, and that we think we're better than others. We can still have good experiences without having to congregate together. I think having it in Nauvoo is a bad idea. It seems that we Mormons are once again taking over the area and that could lead to more problems.ï¿½

Catholics have universities for their students as well as private schools for high school age children. I would not consider them being segregationist. I think the LDS Church should create more universities so that our students can get an education in fact I have often wondered why the Church does not have private schools for high school age children and lower just like the Catholics.

Been There | 2:29 p.m. July 24, 2008

I have attended both a "secular" university and BYU. I loved the education I got at both schools. The other aspects of college life, however, were not equal. At BYU, people seemed to be either caught up in a "holier-than-thou" competition where they were trying to out-do everyone else at appearing righteous and scriptural scholars, or else they were outright rebelling against that competition. I had a psychology class once that made sense of this. The more Latter-day Saints you get together in one place, the more radical their beliefs will become one way AND the other. That means sending your child to an LDS school will not necessarily always increase their testimony and spirituality. Being together in such a homogeneous group may push them into being too radical (self-righteous and arrogant) OR rebel against the Church completely. But if you send your good LDS children to a "secular" school that is not homogeneous, this group polarization doesn't occur. That is why my "social experience" at the "secular" school was MUCH, MUCH better than my experience at BYU!

Helge | 2:32 p.m. July 24, 2008

I attended BYU as a new LDS convert, and was in an off-campus student ward where through six years' time, some of my roomates were making out on the couch just a hair's breadth from actually copulating, one subscribed to Playboy, another to Swank, and two were promiscuous gays. Many of them were returned missionaries, but others were straight-and-narrow ideals of LDS excellence.

At BYU, I hoped I would get away from evil at San Jose State, but I got more of an education in that BYU student ward about wierd, worldly things than I had expected...

A monolithic LDS school isn't the answer. Testimony and moral strength comes through the Spirit: Institute is great at helping that to bloom and bear fruit, but the individual has to develop it through the dynamic of "opposition in all things."

Good luck to those trying to start these skools , though. I wish them well.

Alex | 3:04 p.m. July 24, 2008

"I think too many "LDS based" schools sends a message that we are an exclusive and intolerant people who only want to socialize with our own kind. "

Is it such an aweful thing to attend an LDS-friendly school for four years out of an entire lifetime? Does perception paranoia mean that much to you? I have spent only four years of my life in a predominantly Mormon environment, and now I am called a hermit for doing so. Come on.

Its great that you enjoyed your experience at a public university. However, why does it bother you that I enjoyed my experience at an LDS-friendly university?

John Pack Lambert | 3:12 p.m. July 24, 2008

To the 8:41 poster,
You have some good points.
There is another option. Here in Michigan the church owns a set of aprtment buildings ajacent to Michigan State University. They were built through donations of the Howard Stoddard family. One of Howard Stoddard's grandson's is my institute teacher.
This institution has served well. My older brother met his wife (who happens to be a Native of Mexico) while they were both living in these residences.
However, Michigan State is even larger than BYU. There are over 50,000 students there. It does not meet the needs of students who would thrive at a small school by any strech of the imagination.

John Lambert | 3:22 p.m. July 24, 2008

When was there an LDS Institue program at "most US Universities"?
There are 13 Institutes in Michigan, and 15 State Universities in the State. It is about a 40 minute bus ride, if not a little more, from Wayne State Campus to the Institute class I go to. There are only three institute buildings in Michigan, which means there are universities here with 25,000 students on campus with no institue building.
Just one more note, there are 29 students enrolled in the Nauvoo Illinois Macomb institue. This mainly consists of Students at Western Illinois University. So some people do go to school in the general vacinity of Nauvoo.

To metamoracoug re: 7:34 post | 3:23 p.m. July 24, 2008

metamoracoug, I'm still not sure I understand your position. LDS students would be sheltered, but not sheltered? Many LDS students are bright, capable, strong young people--not helpless sheep to be protected from the evil, liberal state-secular-university wolves out there.

Strong LDS youth can be a positive example and THRIVE at state universities--and even help teach the Gospel. (AMEN to Aaron@10:46 above, BTW.) Those partying boozers at state colleges are still children of God, ya know.

If anyone needs Christ in their lives, secularized college students do--as many other Christian organizations know well. Campus Crusade for Christ and so forth do very well on state college campuses--and inasmuch as they truly lead people to believe in Christ, more power to them!

Meanwhile, too many people labor under the illusion that just because 98% of the BYU studentbody is LDS, it's perfect. NO WAY. Like Formerzoobie, I also saw a student berated for not stopping during the national anthem, and while I have no first-hand experience, anyone who thinks there's no drinking and non-marital sex whatsoever at BYU is kidding themselves.

These colleges will be good, no question. But they won't be cities of Enoch. Let's not pretend otherwise.

blahblahblah | 3:24 p.m. July 24, 2008

Whatever....if your faith and values are strong no amount of "rampant immoral behavior" will alter you. Grow up! If you are old enough to vote, join the military, go to college, MAKE BABIES, GET MARRIED, GO ON MISSIONS ALL ALONE, things young mormons do every day, you can survive the real world in a real college. Not LDS, went to a regular college with "rampant immoral behavior" and I managed to stay to my path of no sex, no drugs, etc... Isolation will only make you naive which is just a nice word for stupid.

John Lambert | 3:33 p.m. July 24, 2008

To know the facts,
Some people are just set in their ways. It took a while for SVU to get accredited, however I do not think it took any longer than for most colleges and universities.
It only started about 15 years ago.
Another thing, its enrollment for last year was 526. I am not sure what the person who threw out the 8000 plus number was blabbing about.
SVU offers scholarships in many cases.
I think President Rodney Smith and his advisors have done a wonderful job. Whether there is enough demand to start similar colleges I do not know.
However I will not default people for trying. I remain unconvinced that huge, depersonalizing state universities are the answer.

To metamoracoug: One other thing | 3:34 p.m. July 24, 2008

metamoracoug--I've also been to Nauvoo--several times. One of my favorite places on Earth. I'm also reasonably familiar with the Nauvoo Christian Center--though they're downright courteous compared to one well-known anti I'll just call "L.P." and his outfit. Gotta give them credit for *that* much. :)

Exposure to ideas that differ from mainstream LDS beliefs doesn't necessarily destroy our testimonies. Not even exposure to anti-Mormonism. Otherwise, Jacob would have avoided Sherem like the plague, true? Not to cite the cliche "What doesn't kill me makes me stronger"--but there's a fair amount of truth to it.

It is good to associate with other like-minded people and strengthen each other. We LDS can draw great comfort and blessings from that. I would never dispute that in a million years.

Yet on the other hand, a testimony that needs perpetual shelter to survive isn't a testimony that's capable of either growth or endurance. It's living on borrowed light. If THAT is what we're encouraging, in any degree, we're not helping ourselves.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! :)

John Lambert | 3:41 p.m. July 24, 2008

To Jack Carter,
Wayne State University has the largest medical school in the country, is one of Michigan's three top notch research universities, and has 32,000 students, but it does not have an institute building.
For the two years I have been here there have been attempts to start an LDSSA, but they have gone nowhere.
My sister-in-laws sister goes to Northern Illinois University, which has 25,000 students. Yet she has to drive over half an hour to get to church, and is quite possibly the only active single LDS student at the school.
These are not out of the way, podunk institutions. These are huge state universities, and yet these are the numbers we deal with.

Anonymous | 3:44 p.m. July 24, 2008

To get into the business program at BYU the minimum GPA was 3.7. I had a 3.75 and was turned down. There is a need for other schools catering to the LDS crowd and Nauvou as a location is an excellent location.

John Lambert | 4:07 p.m. July 24, 2008

To Alex,
What Public University are you at?
Also, have you ever even been to BYU?
I can only speak from experience about BYU and Wayne State but I would rate BYU higher any day.
The curriculum is more demanding, there is more feeling of comraderie between students and staff, faculty spend less time berating students in class, there is less disrespect for professors and so on.
I find the quite regular exposure to tobacco smoke annoying. If I develop lung cancer it will be from going here.
Things are so bad in the under-graduate library that one of my (non-Mormon) classmates expressed that she had stopped going there because she feared the next time she went it would have turned into a brothel.
The library here is much below the level of BYU's libary. Beyond having fewer holdings, they have horrible security and the number of missing books is totally unacceptable.
Another good question, what is your major. I am a history major. At BYU there was at least one Marxist and another sympathizer with Marxism in the department.
Here at Wayne State there are way more than that.

John Pack Lambert | 4:13 p.m. July 24, 2008

A lot of the advantages of BYU over Wayne State are not directly related to BYU being a church school.
Wayne State is in the heart of Detroti. It is a commuter school to the core. A huge percentage of our students are tranfer students. It also has much more lenient admissions standards than BYU.
Beyond this, its drop out policies and re-enrolment policies are totally bizarre.
Metro-Detroit was at least until recently the most racially segragated area in the nation, and there are both European American and African Americans who are very angry about racial issues.
Wayne State also has very easy standards for admission. This is combined with many of the local public schools inadequately preparing students.
Beyond this there are high levels of cheating by students.
There is also a down-right hatred for the administration. People protest what the university President gets paid, they are always gripping about costs and there are almost universal attempts to avoid buying books.
Lastly, the university is bogged down with way too many lower level courses.

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