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'Mormon-friendly' colleges planned for Nevada, Nauvoo
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Paul Smith Carter | 8:57 a.m. July 23, 2008
While I would be interested in a university in Nauvoo, providing it can provide
a good academic education, I believe that my youngest daughter and her husband
were well served by the Institute connected with the University of Wisconsin
(that is where they met). Her husband did go on to BYU Law school after
attaining Masters degrees from various Wisconsin schools, but he was well served
by Creighton Law School in Nebraska before he transferred to BYU Law School.
hold on... | 9:02 a.m. July 23, 2008
We have to look at the bigger picture here, people. How valuable will a degree
be from these new institutions? What will prospective employers think about a
degree from a school that meets in local motels and "meeting places,"
whatever that means? I'm afraid these perhaps well-intentioned owners and
investors are going to take the students' money and offer little in return.
Comments continue below
Art | 9:01 a.m. July 23, 2008
Yes, much needed.
Quality can be attained.
Very much needed location is Mesa, Arizona area with 74 stakes in the Mesa Temple district!
Arizona State University, Phoenix, has 51,000 students, way too big for a single university. Only two other major universities here in Arizona are UA in Tucson and NAU in Flagstaff. That's it.
How about BYU-AZ? Maybe a BYU perpetual education fund...
Private money is available. Br. Ira Fulton has already donated $150,000,000 (million) to Arizona State, a secular public university!
Parents and grandparents WILL pay for a safe, Christ-based education. More especially an LDS-based education.
Much thanks to all who are making this vital service happen. May God be with them. My prayers are for them.
Jack Carter | 9:05 a.m. July 23, 2008
I think that just about every major university has an institute program. From
Ohio State, Virgina Tech, University of Washington, etc. Infact UNLV has a huge
institute building that looks as though it is on campus.
As memtioned earlier I think efforts and money are better spent on something else.
As memtioned earlier I think efforts and money are better spent on something else.
SRas | 9:03 a.m. July 23, 2008
Meaning no disrespect to SVU or these fledgling institutions, but whether or not
you perceive the education you get there is as good or better than BYU is
irrelevant. Employers will not.
I agree there is something to be said about a community of Saints, banding together against the winds of the world. But that is what families are for. That is what wards and stakes are for. We must, at some point, go outside the Church - let our lights shine, be the salt of the earth, etc. I don't say that flippantly, but in all seriousness.
I agree there is something to be said about a community of Saints, banding together against the winds of the world. But that is what families are for. That is what wards and stakes are for. We must, at some point, go outside the Church - let our lights shine, be the salt of the earth, etc. I don't say that flippantly, but in all seriousness.
know the facts | 9:03 a.m. July 23, 2008
skeptical utah man: I would love to know where you get you're
"facts" as they are dead WRONG! In actuality, most SVU professors send
their children to SVU and the kids love it. Also, the school is nationally
accredited and just received re-accreditation. They also applied for regional
accreditation last academic year and should receive word one way or the other
this coming year. Don't bash something you obviously know nothing about.
It's an amazing school where amazing things happen. I only wish I had known
about it when I was in college.
metamoracoug | 9:06 a.m. July 23, 2008
Some of you are myopic.
Fifty years ago before Earnest Wilkinson, BYU wasn't much more than a glorified high school either.
Initially these schools may struggle, especially financially. The quality of education they provide may not exceed the local community college. There locations may lack much of anything for kids to do -- have you been to Nauvoo? Unless you are going to St. Louis or the Quad Cities you are pretty limited.
All this being said, my wife has a PhD in psychology and I have a masters in history. We're building a second home (we reside in Peoria IL area) in Keokuk IA 25 minutes door-to-door to the Nauvoo temple. In ten years we'll retire and would delight to teach some sober students. My wife taught at Bradley two years. If students showed up for class, who knows what interesting concoction of neurotoxins they were under the influence of. Give me a flunkie LDS student to one of these wastes of a human life any day.
Fifty years ago before Earnest Wilkinson, BYU wasn't much more than a glorified high school either.
Initially these schools may struggle, especially financially. The quality of education they provide may not exceed the local community college. There locations may lack much of anything for kids to do -- have you been to Nauvoo? Unless you are going to St. Louis or the Quad Cities you are pretty limited.
All this being said, my wife has a PhD in psychology and I have a masters in history. We're building a second home (we reside in Peoria IL area) in Keokuk IA 25 minutes door-to-door to the Nauvoo temple. In ten years we'll retire and would delight to teach some sober students. My wife taught at Bradley two years. If students showed up for class, who knows what interesting concoction of neurotoxins they were under the influence of. Give me a flunkie LDS student to one of these wastes of a human life any day.
Nebraska | 9:06 a.m. July 23, 2008
It bothers me that there have to be comments such as: "those that
can't get into BYU..." - like that is a bad thing. Some active LDS
people really don't want to go to BYU. (Is that blasphemy?)
Some go to other schools because of the cost. Those people that can't afford BYU will not be able to afford these private schools. Some people don't want to go to BYU schools because the perceived arrogance and some hypocritical tendencies in the students and staff. And then there are others who just want to get a good education somewhere else. It is not a sin to not be a fan of BYU.
They may not make as much money but the people wanting to create private colleges could do better things to promote the gospel around the world by creating private dormitories open to anyone wishing to live the LDS standard. Some of the smaller schools could even lease a conference room in the LDS dormitory for special events.
Some go to other schools because of the cost. Those people that can't afford BYU will not be able to afford these private schools. Some people don't want to go to BYU schools because the perceived arrogance and some hypocritical tendencies in the students and staff. And then there are others who just want to get a good education somewhere else. It is not a sin to not be a fan of BYU.
They may not make as much money but the people wanting to create private colleges could do better things to promote the gospel around the world by creating private dormitories open to anyone wishing to live the LDS standard. Some of the smaller schools could even lease a conference room in the LDS dormitory for special events.
Me | 9:07 a.m. July 23, 2008
For those wondering about doing the same in other countries, check out the Acorn
to Oak Foundation.
SVU Dad | 9:16 a.m. July 23, 2008
To compare the quality of education at SVU to BYU is a stretch at best. BYU is
not the best choice for everyone, but BYU, in general, offers a much broader and
deeper course offering, a more competitive student body, and professors with
globally competitive credentials (in most cases).
SVU may be a better place for students with specific geographic constraints, an inability to deal with the large campus setting, or with more limited academic or athletic capacity. Students with these circumstances may very well get more out of SVU.
SVU may be a better place for students with specific geographic constraints, an inability to deal with the large campus setting, or with more limited academic or athletic capacity. Students with these circumstances may very well get more out of SVU.
metamoracoug | 9:16 a.m. July 23, 2008
And for those who ask, "Aren't these kid's testimonies strong
enough to go to a 'real' school?" Only about 30% of LDS kids
make the transition to adult without going inactive. So, the answer is,
"No, their testimonies aren't strong enough." With internet porn
so easily available its a wonder any of our young men successfully make the
journey. Beer and drugs flow so openly and readily on most college campuses
that I fear for the safety of my daughters (let alone the potential for them
actually getting involved in spite of my efforts to teach and train them
corretly) attending anything but a church sponsored or oriented school.
Henry Drummond | 9:19 a.m. July 23, 2008
I happen to know one of these people involved in the project and believe him to
be an honorable and sincere individual. Still I think supporting a local
institute of religion at already existing institutions of higher learning would
be a better project. "Mormon Friendly" schools soon turn into
"Mormon Only" schools and I'm not sure if that is really a
healthy thing to do.
metamoracoug | 9:20 a.m. July 23, 2008
And just one more thought in all of this. I've lived in several locations
across the country. When it comes to anti-Mormon bias, no where has been as bad
as in Illinois. One of my son's was told by a local minister that he was
going to hell because he's a Mormon. Another local church preaches
anti-mormon stuff as part of their teenage Bible week. One of the local high
school teachers announced in his class that Mormons are like Nazis.
Maybe some clean cut LDS college students would begin to alleviate such stupidity. It certainly couldn't hurt.
Maybe some clean cut LDS college students would begin to alleviate such stupidity. It certainly couldn't hurt.
Who knows? | 9:23 a.m. July 23, 2008
In a few years, maybe, S Virgina, Moapa, & Nauvoo will turn out quality
graduates like Liberty and Bob Jones Universities do now. rofl.
Alex | 9:23 a.m. July 23, 2008
To "What About Institute?"
"Heaven forbid LDS youth should learn to think for themselves, think critically (in the BEST sense of the term), or learn that Republicanism or extreme conservativism aren't necessarily The Gospel--and sometimes even as far from it as you can get! "
Heaven forbid LDS youth be indoctrinated with the same liberal pap their whole lives only then to go to college where they get more of it.
Church schools are considered conservative not because they teach conservatism, but because they don't ram liberalism and socialism down your throat, which public universities, in large part, do.
Thinking for yourself has nothing to do with whether you go to a public university or not, nor is critical thinking a function of how Marxist your professor is.
At BYU, I rarely knew where the professor stood politically, since that was beside the point anyway. Don't get me wrong, there are great professors and public institutions all over this country, but I don't think they have the corner of the market on "thinking for themselves" or critical thinking.
"Heaven forbid LDS youth should learn to think for themselves, think critically (in the BEST sense of the term), or learn that Republicanism or extreme conservativism aren't necessarily The Gospel--and sometimes even as far from it as you can get! "
Heaven forbid LDS youth be indoctrinated with the same liberal pap their whole lives only then to go to college where they get more of it.
Church schools are considered conservative not because they teach conservatism, but because they don't ram liberalism and socialism down your throat, which public universities, in large part, do.
Thinking for yourself has nothing to do with whether you go to a public university or not, nor is critical thinking a function of how Marxist your professor is.
At BYU, I rarely knew where the professor stood politically, since that was beside the point anyway. Don't get me wrong, there are great professors and public institutions all over this country, but I don't think they have the corner of the market on "thinking for themselves" or critical thinking.
BYwho? | 9:24 a.m. July 23, 2008
There are two attitudes in the church that rankle me. "If you CAN'T
get into BYU" and its underlying supposition that every LDS youth should
aspire to attend the Zoo (yes my colors are showing). I grew up in the
"mission field." My sisters and I were three of five LDS students in
our 1,200 student high school. My wife was the the only member in her graduating
class of 500. We didn't go to BYU (or its satellites) and raised four
missionaries - from the Mission Field.
As a YM leader in my stake I've seen kids raised to believe that the church schools are the ONLY places to attend college and seen the devastation to their psyche when they HAVE to attend a state school. This is unfair our kids. (It's natural if you went to one of these schools to want you kids to go where you did, but if you didn't...)
The Brethren have it right. Go the the best school you can that has an institute. There are other options and we needn't isolate ourselves from the world. More schools need our influence on their campuses!!
As a YM leader in my stake I've seen kids raised to believe that the church schools are the ONLY places to attend college and seen the devastation to their psyche when they HAVE to attend a state school. This is unfair our kids. (It's natural if you went to one of these schools to want you kids to go where you did, but if you didn't...)
The Brethren have it right. Go the the best school you can that has an institute. There are other options and we needn't isolate ourselves from the world. More schools need our influence on their campuses!!
To Each His Own | 9:22 a.m. July 23, 2008
Some posters seem to forget that Mormons, just like any other group of people,
are quite diverse in their preferences, and the variety of educational choices
they make reflect that. Some select a school primarily based on academic
reputation while others base it on geography, demographics (such as a high LDS
population), price, etc. Let people do whatever they prefer and let us not
judge one person's choice to be superior to another's.
Hero | 9:34 a.m. July 23, 2008
I actually attended SVU and it was a wonderful experience! I did play baseball
there and it was a another opportunity for a LDS kid to go some place other than
BYU. I found that more than half the kids at SVU did get into BYU but wanted to
stay closer to home and SVU provides that to east coast students. I do believe
they need another LDS based school in the midwest because many students will
attend it as a BYU-Idaho. Only problem is if its a private school it will very
expensive. SVU was because they had a huge hole do did themselves out of. And
there not hanging on my their fingernails... they are expanding there dorms and
athletic facilities!
RE: metamoracoug | 9:38 a.m. July 23, 2008
Yet sheltering is not the answer. At some point, you've got to let those
testimonies stand for themselves and be tested. We can't always live on
borrowed light, you know.
Where do you get the 30% statistic, BTW? And the truly burning question: How many of those LDS kids who went inactive ACTUALLY WENT TO BYU?
I went to BYU, and let me assure you--I have a testimony both BECAUSE of my experience there AND IN SPITE OF my experience there. To make a long story short: BYU's a good place, and I enjoyed it--but it's far, FAR from perfect. People who think it's The Celestial University have either never opened their eyes or attended there to begin with.
On the other hand, I've had the pleasure of meeting good church members from a number of other university settings whose testimonies remained strong, whether due to the Institute program, the effort they put into their prayers/scripture study/relationship with the Lord, and other spiritually positive factors.
Going to BYU is a good option for church members. But it should never be viewed as an academic or spiritual necessity.
Where do you get the 30% statistic, BTW? And the truly burning question: How many of those LDS kids who went inactive ACTUALLY WENT TO BYU?
I went to BYU, and let me assure you--I have a testimony both BECAUSE of my experience there AND IN SPITE OF my experience there. To make a long story short: BYU's a good place, and I enjoyed it--but it's far, FAR from perfect. People who think it's The Celestial University have either never opened their eyes or attended there to begin with.
On the other hand, I've had the pleasure of meeting good church members from a number of other university settings whose testimonies remained strong, whether due to the Institute program, the effort they put into their prayers/scripture study/relationship with the Lord, and other spiritually positive factors.
Going to BYU is a good option for church members. But it should never be viewed as an academic or spiritual necessity.
Granny T. | 9:44 a.m. July 23, 2008
Re: Alex,
Institute has nothing to do with thinking for yourself. It is about classes in the scriptures, etc. It's about getting together and having fun and learning.
Institute has nothing to do with thinking for yourself. It is about classes in the scriptures, etc. It's about getting together and having fun and learning.
cher | 9:42 a.m. July 23, 2008
Moapa or at least Logandale/Overton is a lovely area. It's as close to St.
George as it is to Las Vegas. The people are very nice and friendly and the
valley is beautiful.
Ello | 9:45 a.m. July 23, 2008
I don't understand why Mormons pretend to "except" everyone and
love everyone when they won't even attend colleges that have everyone.
Get a brain and a clue and please see the LDS Church for what it is.
They keep you surrounded by Mormons so that the indoctrination never stops, but once someone opens their eyes they never look back.
Leaving the LDS church is like looking at the world for the first time. You have no tethers or fears, just a million new opportunities and billions of people to love for who they are.
You don't need to convert anyone to your way of thinking, you can just be their friend.
Get a brain and a clue and please see the LDS Church for what it is.
They keep you surrounded by Mormons so that the indoctrination never stops, but once someone opens their eyes they never look back.
Leaving the LDS church is like looking at the world for the first time. You have no tethers or fears, just a million new opportunities and billions of people to love for who they are.
You don't need to convert anyone to your way of thinking, you can just be their friend.
Mona | 9:46 a.m. July 23, 2008
"Why Mormon-friendly" schools? is right on. The repugnant life=style
of college kids today is hard to take. Institute is great, but the second half
of the equation would be to find a roommate who isn't bringing the
boyfriend/girlfriend 'home' every night, and who isn't barfing up
what he/she just spent all evening drinking. It's not easy to find someone
with high standards. I attended both a non-LDS school and BYU and know what
I'm talking about. And that was over 30 years ago. It's
exponentially worse now.
It's no accident that a number of Middle East Muslim families are sending their children to LDS schools. The high moral standards of Church schools are so appealing.
It's no accident that a number of Middle East Muslim families are sending their children to LDS schools. The high moral standards of Church schools are so appealing.
RWW | 9:48 a.m. July 23, 2008
I agree with BYwho? The LDS-sponsored schools are not a means to an end. While
they are good schools, they don't fit everyone's needs. As a YM
leader myself, I also think too much effort is spent having our kid's dream
goal be going to BYU (and my son's dream is to do so!). They think this
because there are pamphlets about LDS schools on our ward bulletin boards!
Think about this too, most of the General Authorities do not have degrees from
BYU or other LDS-affiliated schools! Just food for thought.
To Mom | 9:49 a.m. July 23, 2008
Mom,
Having grown up in eastern PA, I have to admit that I loved my Ricks College experience more than my secular university experiences. I think the Church, not private syndicates should set up another 2-year school, out east, so that LDS thought can be enunciated without persecution (as it was at my secular universities).
As for the institute program, Good in Theory, poor in practice. Current laws prohibit adjacent buildings and fundraising efforts for the LDSSA. While the institutes are good oasis' for those attending Non-LDS schools, I have witnessed and experienced first hand the differences between a "part time" and "full time" LDS higher educational experience. The Church needs to INVEST in our children's educational future by involving us in the purchase and operations of Church, not syndicate, LDS Schools.
Having grown up in eastern PA, I have to admit that I loved my Ricks College experience more than my secular university experiences. I think the Church, not private syndicates should set up another 2-year school, out east, so that LDS thought can be enunciated without persecution (as it was at my secular universities).
As for the institute program, Good in Theory, poor in practice. Current laws prohibit adjacent buildings and fundraising efforts for the LDSSA. While the institutes are good oasis' for those attending Non-LDS schools, I have witnessed and experienced first hand the differences between a "part time" and "full time" LDS higher educational experience. The Church needs to INVEST in our children's educational future by involving us in the purchase and operations of Church, not syndicate, LDS Schools.
Gullible | 9:49 a.m. July 23, 2008
Well, isn't that just "special"? Talk about naive! And Mormons
wonder why people think they are so absurd..
Homeschool mom | 9:53 a.m. July 23, 2008
Lots of good discussion here. Having lived in the east, I do think an LDS
college on the east coast is a great idea and I hope it flies! As a
midwesterner by birth, I'd love to see one in the midwest, too. Several of
my kids graduated from BYU--two with advanced degrees and they got wonderful
educational opportunities.
But as a homeschool mom, I'd like to reply to a couple of less than informed comments about home-school students. Regular universities DO let them in and many of them succeed very well. My daughter graduated from (then) Ricks College at 18 and then from the U of AZ. Her homeschooled husband from TX also graduated from the U of AZ. One of my sons graduated from Eastern AZ College and then from Utah Valley. Another graduated from BYU-H and is now completing a Master's at Embry Riddle. I have a son with learning disabilities who has attended our local community college and a DS son who has read the Book of Mormon by himself and has been called as a service missionary. Please--most home-schooled students do very well. Some don't--but then, some publicaly educated students don't either.
But as a homeschool mom, I'd like to reply to a couple of less than informed comments about home-school students. Regular universities DO let them in and many of them succeed very well. My daughter graduated from (then) Ricks College at 18 and then from the U of AZ. Her homeschooled husband from TX also graduated from the U of AZ. One of my sons graduated from Eastern AZ College and then from Utah Valley. Another graduated from BYU-H and is now completing a Master's at Embry Riddle. I have a son with learning disabilities who has attended our local community college and a DS son who has read the Book of Mormon by himself and has been called as a service missionary. Please--most home-schooled students do very well. Some don't--but then, some publicaly educated students don't either.
Clare | 10:00 a.m. July 23, 2008
Sounds wonderful! Good luck to these new institutions. Live Long and Prosper!
Alex | 10:01 a.m. July 23, 2008
Granny T.:
I apologize if you misunderstood my point. I might not have been clear. I was addressing the argument by some that you have to go to a public university to learn how to think for yourself, or that somehow critical thinking increases as you distance yourself from religious influence.
Look, the reality is that NO university is the "real world". It is not set up to be that way. It is therefore the height of folly to assert that one university is "real life" and another is not. Neither is.
I don't hate public universities. I went to two of them for graduate work, but I don't think that going to a counterculture university will by itself make you any more of a critical thinker than going to a church friendly institution.
All of that said, I agree with all of the comments about going to institute. It is a wonderful thing.
I apologize if you misunderstood my point. I might not have been clear. I was addressing the argument by some that you have to go to a public university to learn how to think for yourself, or that somehow critical thinking increases as you distance yourself from religious influence.
Look, the reality is that NO university is the "real world". It is not set up to be that way. It is therefore the height of folly to assert that one university is "real life" and another is not. Neither is.
I don't hate public universities. I went to two of them for graduate work, but I don't think that going to a counterculture university will by itself make you any more of a critical thinker than going to a church friendly institution.
All of that said, I agree with all of the comments about going to institute. It is a wonderful thing.
Setting an example | 10:07 a.m. July 23, 2008
Several comments have focused on "isn't institute enough" and
"don't cloistering them away", etc.. This is flawed reasoning.
The reasoning seems to be we should allow our youth to be in immoral situations because they will be strong enough to withstand anything they encounter. If that were true, we should send our youth to gentlemen's clubs so they can let their light shine in those dark dens. We shouldn't have internet filters because we should be strong enough not to be tempted. Likewise we shouldn't need standards like "For the Strength of Youth".
R-rated movies are not good for us. How can r-rated(or worse) colleges be good? Granted that not all colleges are bad.
Also, college is not the "real world". If any disagree, please, try any of the things that permeate life at some colleges at your job. Showing up at work drunk will not get you the same reception as showing up at a lecture drunk. I've seen things in college that would never be tolerated in the real world.
If there are people who would prefer going to school in Moapa to keep away from the filth out there: that sets an example too. A good one.
The reasoning seems to be we should allow our youth to be in immoral situations because they will be strong enough to withstand anything they encounter. If that were true, we should send our youth to gentlemen's clubs so they can let their light shine in those dark dens. We shouldn't have internet filters because we should be strong enough not to be tempted. Likewise we shouldn't need standards like "For the Strength of Youth".
R-rated movies are not good for us. How can r-rated(or worse) colleges be good? Granted that not all colleges are bad.
Also, college is not the "real world". If any disagree, please, try any of the things that permeate life at some colleges at your job. Showing up at work drunk will not get you the same reception as showing up at a lecture drunk. I've seen things in college that would never be tolerated in the real world.
If there are people who would prefer going to school in Moapa to keep away from the filth out there: that sets an example too. A good one.
More Opportunity, not less | 10:06 a.m. July 23, 2008
BYwho? should read to each his own's comments.
Both your attitude and the attitude you hate are just attitudes, but have nothing to do with the church; the church collectively doesn't agree with adopting either attitude. But rather the members individually have many diverse attitudes toward the subject of college. And to each his/her own.
Frankly, there are many good reasons to go to a school affiliated with the church, or one based off of the values of the church, or to just live the values of the the church in attending wherever. One could be blessed in any of those scenarios. Just because the sun is shining on one person doesn't mean that person doesn't think it shines on other people like you insinuate.
I do agree with you, BYwho?, that people shouldn't have an attitude that they have to go to BYU or else (Or that they are better for it). But you also shouldn't have an attitude that BYU isn't a good choice that is backed by the brethren, because it is. Enter to learn and go forth to serve is its motto. Sounds like, come unto Him and then go unto all the world.
Both your attitude and the attitude you hate are just attitudes, but have nothing to do with the church; the church collectively doesn't agree with adopting either attitude. But rather the members individually have many diverse attitudes toward the subject of college. And to each his/her own.
Frankly, there are many good reasons to go to a school affiliated with the church, or one based off of the values of the church, or to just live the values of the the church in attending wherever. One could be blessed in any of those scenarios. Just because the sun is shining on one person doesn't mean that person doesn't think it shines on other people like you insinuate.
I do agree with you, BYwho?, that people shouldn't have an attitude that they have to go to BYU or else (Or that they are better for it). But you also shouldn't have an attitude that BYU isn't a good choice that is backed by the brethren, because it is. Enter to learn and go forth to serve is its motto. Sounds like, come unto Him and then go unto all the world.
Give'm a break | 10:07 a.m. July 23, 2008
I'm an old geezer, but I remember most of my 74 years. Seems like there
was a time when BYU and U of U were both surrounded by cows and pastures. I had
to chuckle at the young folks who deride such a thought today.
Reminds me of a story I once heard.
Seems a young fellow was frustrated at an old guy not being able to understand him and what life is like now. The young fellow explained, "We live in two different worlds. We have computers, microwaves, cell phones, and HdTV's. Men have walked on the moon, we are sending probes to Mars, and with modern travel the entire world is open to us."
The old man looked at the young kid and laughed. "You're right, we had none of those things...So we invented them. Now you impertinent gnat, What are you doing to make the next generation better?"
When people lack vision, the people perish.
Reminds me of a story I once heard.
Seems a young fellow was frustrated at an old guy not being able to understand him and what life is like now. The young fellow explained, "We live in two different worlds. We have computers, microwaves, cell phones, and HdTV's. Men have walked on the moon, we are sending probes to Mars, and with modern travel the entire world is open to us."
The old man looked at the young kid and laughed. "You're right, we had none of those things...So we invented them. Now you impertinent gnat, What are you doing to make the next generation better?"
When people lack vision, the people perish.
Chuck | 10:11 a.m. July 23, 2008
It's unfortunate that the federal government passed PELL grants (the
university version of vouchers). It makes it hard for a new university, such as
these, to compete financially with those who do take them and the government
control that comes with them.
It's interesting how liberal and atheistic universities got after PELL grants were made available.
I think there is a real need for universities such as this, but it will take some real commitment and determination to make it happen in the current government-controlled atmosphere.
It's interesting how liberal and atheistic universities got after PELL grants were made available.
I think there is a real need for universities such as this, but it will take some real commitment and determination to make it happen in the current government-controlled atmosphere.
To skeptical utah man | 10:09 a.m. July 23, 2008
No homeschooled kid going to any college needs to get a GED or high school
diploma to get in. Your ignorance is showing. A portfolio of work and an SAT
or ACT is all that is needed. Every college in the country has a policy for
admitting homeschoolers. They are highly sought after - Stanford at one point
was admitting them at twice the rate of public school graduates (haven't
checked the current admission rates). Most seem to do at least as well as
public schoolers.
To Alex @ 9:23 a.m. | 10:14 a.m. July 23, 2008
Alex, just my observations from a public university. The Marxists among my
professors are actually few and far between. They don't try to shove
"liberalism" down students' throats--but they DO try to get
students to think outside the box, as it were, and think independently instead
of being spoon-fed.
Students benefit from exposure to multiple perspectives and viewpoints. They need to be able to understand the world we live in and attempt to make good decisions anyway. That's reasonable, not "liberal."
Don't get all bent out of shape over this, but on the whole, public universities (including mine) have better research facilities, academic professionals, resources, libraries, students, and intellectual environments than BYU. That's mostly because of numbers and funding, NOT because of institutional character. BYU's quality is gradually improving in all those areas, however.
BYU's advantage over public universities, beyond metaphysical considerations like "having the Spirit," is more latitude about religious expression and moral instruction. We can discuss religion factually, but cannot endorse any religion in the classroom, and we can discuss ethics, but without making moral judgments. That's actually quite counterproductive.
Institute fills in the spiritual gaps and has helped me find balance. I recommend it!
Students benefit from exposure to multiple perspectives and viewpoints. They need to be able to understand the world we live in and attempt to make good decisions anyway. That's reasonable, not "liberal."
Don't get all bent out of shape over this, but on the whole, public universities (including mine) have better research facilities, academic professionals, resources, libraries, students, and intellectual environments than BYU. That's mostly because of numbers and funding, NOT because of institutional character. BYU's quality is gradually improving in all those areas, however.
BYU's advantage over public universities, beyond metaphysical considerations like "having the Spirit," is more latitude about religious expression and moral instruction. We can discuss religion factually, but cannot endorse any religion in the classroom, and we can discuss ethics, but without making moral judgments. That's actually quite counterproductive.
Institute fills in the spiritual gaps and has helped me find balance. I recommend it!
Boise | 10:20 a.m. July 23, 2008
My son was at Nauvoo BYU before the program closed.
They had an unforgetable time studing Church history, where it happened. They did not just read about it they lived it.
They also had the oppurtunity to study Mark Twain in Hanibal Missouri. And American History in Washington D.C. Their professors had a wonderful new perspective on Education and teaching. Do it where it happened.
I applaud someone willing to give educational opportunitities to anyone willing to take them.
Good luck I hope these schools suceed.
They had an unforgetable time studing Church history, where it happened. They did not just read about it they lived it.
They also had the oppurtunity to study Mark Twain in Hanibal Missouri. And American History in Washington D.C. Their professors had a wonderful new perspective on Education and teaching. Do it where it happened.
I applaud someone willing to give educational opportunitities to anyone willing to take them.
Good luck I hope these schools suceed.
Anonymous | 10:31 a.m. July 23, 2008
Very few schools come into being as full-fledged, wow everyone schools. Most of
them started from humbly beginnings and worked hard to become respectable.
Many schools go through the trade-school to college to university like UVU just completed. That isn't the only way obviously.
When UVU was just uvcc people were bad mouthing it and anyone who went there. It was often referred to as uv-high. It takes time and dedication to achieve university status. It takes a lot of courage to try something new like this. If they go through with their plans and make the schools, good for them.
Many schools go through the trade-school to college to university like UVU just completed. That isn't the only way obviously.
When UVU was just uvcc people were bad mouthing it and anyone who went there. It was often referred to as uv-high. It takes time and dedication to achieve university status. It takes a lot of courage to try something new like this. If they go through with their plans and make the schools, good for them.
Hey, Setting An Example... | 10:36 a.m. July 23, 2008
... a public university experience is very much what you make of it. The
R-rated or X-rated lifestyle is available at any college in America, yes. (Rumor
has it, even at BYU!) But going to a state university doesn't mean
you're doomed to live that lifestyle, much less condemned to hell forever
for not wearing the White And Blue.
Public universities as a whole are not immoral dens of filth per se--though students can choose to go to such places and participate in that lifestyle, if they wish. True, though--there is substantial peer pressure to participate in such activities. So someone who's not strong enough to stand up to the peer pressure wouldn't want to consider putting themselves in such a situation. And Institute is always a wholesome and uplifting alternative!
Many public college students understand and recognize that they can't show up for work drunk, etc. Some do, unfortunately, learn the hard way. But please give the substantial majority of state university students some degree of credit for being semi-intelligent human beings.
That's all I'm saying.
Public universities as a whole are not immoral dens of filth per se--though students can choose to go to such places and participate in that lifestyle, if they wish. True, though--there is substantial peer pressure to participate in such activities. So someone who's not strong enough to stand up to the peer pressure wouldn't want to consider putting themselves in such a situation. And Institute is always a wholesome and uplifting alternative!
Many public college students understand and recognize that they can't show up for work drunk, etc. Some do, unfortunately, learn the hard way. But please give the substantial majority of state university students some degree of credit for being semi-intelligent human beings.
That's all I'm saying.
To Give'm a break | 10:36 a.m. July 23, 2008
That's great!
Thanks.
Thanks.
Dan | 10:39 a.m. July 23, 2008
I'm from the south, and there are plenty of Baptist, Methodist and
evangelical sponsored schools there and all over the country. There are also
Catholic schools, and lord knows plenty of athiest and or government schools.
As the church becomes more accepted as mainstream, it stands to reason that with
all the church members with advanced degrees and who are college professors and
administrators, there will arise many church associated colleges. And there is
nothing wrong with Mormon kids going to these other schools, too. We all have to
build our own testimony. God sent us to this earth, not necessarily to a Mormon
earth, but to be the leavening, or the salt of the earth. Not to be cloistered
in our own little tribe.
Alex | 10:41 a.m. July 23, 2008
"To Alex @ 9:23 a.m.":
Thanks for your perspective. I guess I get a little irritated because I live the rest of my life in the so called "real world", but then I encounter those who want to tell me that spending 4 years out of an entire lifetime in an atmosphere like BYU is "not going to prepare me for the real world" or is "dangerous to your critical thinking".
If the truth be known, marrying my wife in an atmosphere like BYU was the best preparation for the real world that I have ever had--better than four years of grad school at a public institution (and I loved grad school). I think something similar can be said of institute programs.
Thanks for your perspective. I guess I get a little irritated because I live the rest of my life in the so called "real world", but then I encounter those who want to tell me that spending 4 years out of an entire lifetime in an atmosphere like BYU is "not going to prepare me for the real world" or is "dangerous to your critical thinking".
If the truth be known, marrying my wife in an atmosphere like BYU was the best preparation for the real world that I have ever had--better than four years of grad school at a public institution (and I loved grad school). I think something similar can be said of institute programs.
John Burrows | 10:41 a.m. July 23, 2008
To each his own. I prefer shopping at Barnes and Noble instead of at Deseret
Book.
Coming soon...100% gentile free workplaces.
Coming soon...100% gentile free workplaces.
Convert | 10:48 a.m. July 23, 2008
Not everyone lives in communities that are predominately LDS. I came from a
school back east where I was the only LDS student out of 900 students. Having
only been a member a few years when I graduated from high school, I needed to
learn a lot about the LDS lifestyle and life. I am forever greatful that I was
able to get into BYU after I had worked a few years to save money. There are
many out there who need to go to an LDS school while they mature in the gospel.
Thankfully some people are willing to help make it happen.
Anonymous | 10:52 a.m. July 23, 2008
Sweet! Seems like there is a lot of support for all things themed LDS. I will
enjoy taking your money.
Wake up, "real" world | 10:52 a.m. July 23, 2008
Unless you are dead, you all live in the real world regardless of the rules your
individual circumstances provide.
This life is the test, but you choose how to live it and in some cases under what circumstances.
This life is the test, but you choose how to live it and in some cases under what circumstances.
Anonymous | 11:19 a.m. July 23, 2008
It is too bad that Southern Virginia and the groups for these two new schools
can't get together and pool resources for one really impressive
institution.
Go USU | 11:26 a.m. July 23, 2008
I am a good active member of the LDS church...but church schools were not for
me.
I went to USU and it had everything I wanted. This school provided a well rounded education, and it had an institute that I could attend for my spiritual education.
I like having church and state seperate like it is in real life. I liked the fact that not everyone there was LDS, yet there were many who were.
BYU is great (my sister goes there) but it's not for everyone. There are plenty of educational opportunities out there that have room for LDS culture already.
I went to USU and it had everything I wanted. This school provided a well rounded education, and it had an institute that I could attend for my spiritual education.
I like having church and state seperate like it is in real life. I liked the fact that not everyone there was LDS, yet there were many who were.
BYU is great (my sister goes there) but it's not for everyone. There are plenty of educational opportunities out there that have room for LDS culture already.
re Hey, Setting An Example | 11:37 a.m. July 23, 2008
Seems like you missed my point. My point was a counter to those who say if you
have a testimony it doesn't matter where you go or what you do. Go to ANY
school and you'll be an example. My point was you can be a good example by
choosing to go to a school that upholds Church standards.
I have know good people who got themselves in trouble because they felt that they were strong enough to resist any evil. Its not true. The more sure we are of our ability to resist evil the more easily we can be led astray.
Never once did I say that all public schools were r-rated. In fact I clearly stated that not all colleges are bad. I would have elaborated if I'd had room. Nor did I say students of public schools were stupid, my point was that college isn't the real world. Hope that helps.
I have know good people who got themselves in trouble because they felt that they were strong enough to resist any evil. Its not true. The more sure we are of our ability to resist evil the more easily we can be led astray.
Never once did I say that all public schools were r-rated. In fact I clearly stated that not all colleges are bad. I would have elaborated if I'd had room. Nor did I say students of public schools were stupid, my point was that college isn't the real world. Hope that helps.
pansiepearl | 11:40 a.m. July 23, 2008
What ever happened to allowing indiviuals their own choice of eduation as well
as providing choices? Let each person choose how, where and why they wish to
learn. If it is to be LDS based or secular that's THEIR choice.
I've seen both sides of education having attended church and secular universities. I function very well in the "outside" world with my faith to sustain my personal belief base. My life experiences have been enlightened by receiving an education be it formal or self taught. The important factor is that my education continues because I have come to understand the importance of learning. Be grateful we have choices.
I've seen both sides of education having attended church and secular universities. I function very well in the "outside" world with my faith to sustain my personal belief base. My life experiences have been enlightened by receiving an education be it formal or self taught. The important factor is that my education continues because I have come to understand the importance of learning. Be grateful we have choices.
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A better model would be to fund excellent institute programs, with appropriate housing options, at the better state schools where LDS populations make this practical. These could be education hubs that would serve the same purpose in a financially prudent manner. We pay taxes already, why pay twice?