Deseret News | Book confronts LDS tragedy

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Book confronts LDS tragedy

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To Ernest | 1:51 p.m. July 21, 2008

Dead Earnest - All those things are available to the merely curious. Pick up a book.

Kyle | 1:58 p.m. July 21, 2008

Re: Leadership ainï¿½t easy 5:04pm,

ï¿½If Brigham couldn't handle the position, he should not have battled Sydney and others for it. He should have stepped aside and let a more competant leader take charge.ï¿½

Itï¿½s interesting that you wrote this. Actually, it was Sidneyï¿½s inflammatory speeches that caused the clashes between the Mormons and the Missourians, which to make a long story short, eventually lead to the extermination order. Rigdon was ultra-militant to the point of being detrimentally affected by religious fervor; but then again extreme zeal could rally the followers and made for strong and popular leadership in those days. BY and Rigdon both sparked fires with incendiary speeches and were unable to control the results. Even more interesting that after the disaster in Missouri, BY allowed it to occur again. As others have mentioned, whether it be religious, political or military, fanaticism that induces and controls group beliefs/actions has been well documented through history. Seems like the old adage is true: Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Ernest T. Bass | 2:06 p.m. July 21, 2008

re: To Ernest:
Yes, I know they are. My little bro, D. Michael claims there is no proof of spin from FARMS and No. Temple. I'm simply pointing out that the fact that the entire, objective history is never included in their "research" shows that there is spin. One must go to outside sources to find the truth. That is spin and that is my entire point.

Comments continue below

julio | 2:31 p.m. July 21, 2008

FIRST OF ALL ITS EASY TO SIT IN THIS TIME OF PEACE AND PROSPERITY AND JUDGE EVNTS IN HISTORY BY MODERN STANDARDS. WE CANT. BUT LETS PUT THIS IN CONTEXT. THE MORMONS HAD BEEN BRUTALLY RAPED, BEATEN, ROBBED, KILLED, AND DRIVEN OUT OF THE USA.THEY WERE DENIED THIER CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS,AND ANY PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW.AN EXTERMINATION ORDER HAD BEEN ISSUED IN MISSOURI MAKING IT LAWFUL TO KILL MORMONS. MORMONS HAD LESS PROTECTION IN MISSOURI THAN BLACK SLAVES. AN ARMY OF THE USA WAS MARCHING TO "DEAL" WITH THE MORMON PROBLEM. PEOPLE IN SALT LAKE CITY FILLED HOMES AND BUSINESSES WITH STRAW READY TO PUT IT TO THE TORCH IF INVADED. THIS WAS THE WILD WEST WHERE EVERYONE WENT ARMED OR RISKED BEING VICTIMIZED BY BANDITS, INDIANS, OR PREDATORS. THEN ALONG COMES A LOUDMOUTHED GROUP OF SETTLERS FROM MISSOURI AND ARKANSAS TALKING TRASH. YES THE MORMONS WERE CONCERNED. MEANWHILE BACK IN THE STATES IN KANSAS AND MISSOURI PRO AND ANTI SLAVERY MOBS ARE RAIDING AND KILLING INNOCENTS. THINK ABOUT IT, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU HAD TO CARRY A GUN TO PROTECT YOUR WIFE AND CHILDREN FROM RAPE AND MURDER. WOULD YOU ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE A VICTIM?

Jamie | 2:52 p.m. July 21, 2008

Re: JULIO
Thank you for such a good comment. Many of us will agree with you. What you said is true fact and true history... Thanks again!

D. Michael Bass | 3:27 p.m. July 21, 2008

To Ernest T.,

If there is proof "spin," you still haven't offered any.

You continue to dodge the issue. Please define "objective history," and please name one "outside source" of "objective history."

You can't.

"Entire, objective history" is not recoverable. This is one of the unfortunate limitations of historiography. Why do you hold the Church to a standard that every one of your "outside sources" (e.g., Quinn) fail to meet?

HENRY | 3:36 p.m. July 21, 2008

I have to agree with julio. The mindset of americans in that time was interesting.The south justified slavery with appeals to the bible. And both north and south felt justified in going to war against other americans , resulting in over 600,000 deaths and many horrific injuries. In addition to the us army marching on utah there were many inflamtory editorials in eastern newspapers and debates in congress calling for the anihilation of the mormons. In the fancher party there was a group called the missouri wilcats who bragged about mobbing mormons in missouri. They claimed to have then gun that killed joseph smith. Also beloved mormon apostle Parley P Pratt had been murdered in arkansas a few months before. His murderer was never tried for his crime. After all, all he did was kill a mormon. No big deal to the local authorities.

MMM rumors | 3:40 p.m. July 21, 2008

Rumors abound re MMM. The emigrants didnï¿½t poison the waterholes. The Native Americans didnï¿½t instigate it. The Mormons were not afraid of the emigrants because of past persecutions. They thought they might need supplies to flee the army, so they wouldnï¿½t sell any supplies to wagon trains and were excessively charging emigrants just to grind small amounts of grain. This created unnecessary tension, because as it turned out the army was not expected before winter.

The Town Marshall wanted arrest some of the emigrants on charges of intoxication and blasphemy, but had to back down. The Mormons were intent on chasing them down and arresting them and requested the militia, which was DENIED. Haight and others formulated a plan to do it anyway using the help of the Paiutes. AGAIN, the plan was met with resistance from the Council, and when Haight pushed harder, they told him to send a dispatch to Brigham Young for advice. Communication between Haight and Lee broke down here, because Lee jumped the gun and attacked the wagon train. MMM was planned and organized. Richard Turley addresses the inaccuracies. Check the newsroom at lds.org. Turley's article based on his research is dated 6/19/07.

Grama Jane | 3:41 p.m. July 21, 2008

Certainly the MMM was a horrible atrocity that shouldn't have happened yet looking at the fuller picture, psychologically one can see the Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome working in the LDS people who had been SO OFTEN victims of mobs, burnings, violence, rapes and murder themselves! Look at what the mob did to Joseph Smith?

At the time of the MMM, the US govt. had sent an ARMY to Utah, (without trying ANY talks first!) to supposedly put down a treasonous rebellion! I understand in the settlement that LDS participants were given amnesty.

In light of the PAST PERSONAL experiences of the LDS people, what should LDS expect to happen to them?? They had gotten NO HELP whatsoever from the govt. or officials, before, during or after their sufferings, though they went with the proof.

I'm glad that this book is availabe. I find it interesting that no one seems to want to find out who did the murders of the LDS at Hauns Mill Massacre, or of the MANY others murders of LDS. Does anyone try to find out who participated or was responsible for the Crusades?? Shall we hold the pope and all Catholics today responsible? FORGIVE ALL!

Texas Ranger | 3:45 p.m. July 21, 2008

Why don't we see in the media books/news about the hundreds of Mormons murdered and persecuted by mobs during the early history of the church and how they were driven from their homes in the dead of winter?

Anonymous | 3:47 p.m. July 21, 2008

Julio,

And now in the name of religion, you want to do essentially the same thing to gays?

SlowS | 3:59 p.m. July 21, 2008

um JULIO,

The Fancher Party were the victims, they were slaughtered in front of their children.

JULIO | 4:06 p.m. July 21, 2008

DEAR ANONYMOUS, WHAT PLANET ARE YOU FROM? WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT GAYS. WE ARE TALKING MMM.

Threadkiller | 4:10 p.m. July 21, 2008

Yes, Mormons have been persecuted. The MMM story is about civilians being slaughtered in front of their children after surrendering their guns.

History lives now | 4:21 p.m. July 21, 2008

Unfortunately the history of Mormon abuse of non-mormons is a living thread. Oh yes, Virginia...the fundamentalist Mormons are alive and well in Utah. You don't have to look too far. They have their own secret society of self-rightous hypocrits who are all too eager to use others, judge them, discard them, and claim their own set of rules under which to follow. Oh yes, Virginia they go to church every Sunday, yet on Monday they are all too willing to manipulate, deceive, and to exploit. They are living, breathing, and continuing right here in Utah County. They never owe anyone an explanation, but rather take copius notes of those who do not act in according to their own views. Hey, this one goes out to the self rightous in Elk Ridge..see anyone smoking boys?? If so, don't forget to get their name. Yes, indeed...Virginia..history lives now.

Insane Mormons | 4:25 p.m. July 21, 2008

Will you Mormons quit trying to make excuses for the MMM?!

You are absolutely insane to believe that ANYTHING can excuse the cold-blooded slaughter of over 100 men, women, and children!

There is NO EXCUSE for it, so WHY ARE YOU TRYING!?

You only show your real colors by such insanity.

parowan patriot | 4:28 p.m. July 21, 2008

My great great great granpas journal records the goings on. But none of the reseachers have it or all the other contemperaneous records.I am sure they have done their best with the resources available to them. An interesting item in the journal records how a waterhole that had been in use for a long time was found to be poisoned right after the Fancher company had camped there. Many cattle died along with other animals who drank there. Grandpa says the robinson boy died after eating meat from the dead cattle. He says many buzzards and other scavengers dies as a result. He was there and helped burn the carcasses of the dead animals. So just because this story is not in the book dosen't mean it didnt happen. What if some one poisoned your water supply, how would you feel?

SlowS | 4:33 p.m. July 21, 2008

um JULIO,

The Fancher Party was from Arkansas.

Anonymous | 4:33 p.m. July 21, 2008

Brigham Young could have just as easily stirred up his followers against gays and they would have all gone out blindly and voted to pass an amendment to the constitution forbidding gay marriage!

Mountain Meadows is about blind obedience and religious fanaticism.

So is Proposition 8

Janice | 4:37 p.m. July 21, 2008

Re: Slow S

And some of you who constantly keep stirring the pot on the MMM are as well making victims out of descendants of the perpetrators. You stone throwers will not stop at any point. All your personal hate and bigotry against all Mormons will not seize. You modern Mormon mobber's of today are still victimizing Mormons and their descendants. Perhaps you need to put to rest that MMM victims are dead and gone and have nothing to do with any of you Mormon haters of today. But you are making victims out of the innocent descendants of the Mormons who's ancestors were involved in MMM--shame on you evil people!

Answer me this | 4:44 p.m. July 21, 2008

What it all boils down to is that the early Mormon church and today's Taliban have a lot in common. Both committed acts of atrocity because they were on God's side and felt fully justified in doing so.

Why is it that "God's army" always acts with such conviction and righteous indignation, yet always seems to be on the wrong side?

About time | 4:47 p.m. July 21, 2008

I'm glad the Church is finally allowing an open look at this part of it's history. I'm afraid it has been less than honest in the past, which has led to many false stories that exist in the minds of members today.

Perhaps we can all learn from the mistakes that have been made. Maybe we can learn to be less trusting of our leaders, and more courageous and willing to stand forward when something wrong is being done in the name of religion. We can learn to trust our own sense of reason and logic. If so, then re-addressing the issue will have done some good.

Tired | 4:53 p.m. July 21, 2008

Abraham lied to protect his wife. He said that she was his sister. Does that make him less of a prophet or example? There have been so many atrocities throught history on many fronts. Most of them in the name of religion. the crusades come to mind. Jesus Christ himself was called a rebel because he taught that he was the son of God. that really went over big with Ceaser. I am not condoning what happened in Southern Utah. what happened happened. No excuses. So did linengrad but there are many, Leaders for entire nations of the same leanage that totally denigh that if even happened, against overwhelming proof and survivers. We will never know what goes on in the heartsand minds of men when they are confronted with decisions. that is between them and their god whomever that is. Argueing about it and pointing fingers is unproductive. blind faith is unproductive. Develope a relationship with your God whomever that may be and do unto others as you would have done unto you. Live the ten Commandments ( oh by the way Moses was a murderer or was that too long ago for you to remember)

nathan | 4:57 p.m. July 21, 2008

War is hell. Try going to bagdad. All is fair in war and the winners write the history.Julio is right on the money . Have you ever been threatened?During the revolutionary war the British complained because the cowardly americans hid behind trees instead of lining up to be shot at. In kosovo women and children were raped them murdered in front of the men before they were shot. Did you go stop it? Every year thousands of people die in accidents caused by drunk drivers. What are you doing about it. Life sucks then you die, then god takes care of the victims and the perpetrators. Millions of little babies are mudered by their own parents with help from the us govt. what are you doing to stop that.

Don't tease the dog | 5:16 p.m. July 21, 2008

The Mountain Meadows Massacre happened because of religious persecution.

It's a fact that if you tease a dog long enough he will bite, and the out come could even prove to be deadly.

To insanity | 5:19 p.m. July 21, 2008

Re: Insane Mormons,

Your statement was insane. Get a life if you know how???

Lessons to be learned | 5:27 p.m. July 21, 2008

There are lessons to be learned from this tragedy of the past. If it seems wrong, then maybe it is wrong. Even Church leaders can lead others astray. We are all responsible for our own actions and can't simply blame whoever is in charge. It's easier to repent of being too kind than too mean and extreme. Religious zealotry is as deadly as any other zeal--even today! Let's all take a deep breath and mellow out.

Modern Mobbers | 5:30 p.m. July 21, 2008

Are you folks having a good time? This looks like road-rage on here tonight. For those of you who carry so much hate in your heart for Mormons, may need to seek some professional help. Your hate will eventually consume you completely to the end of your life if you do not learn to deal with NOW. The M.M.M. has absolutely nothing to do with any of you. Perhaps you folks should go sleep it off!

SlowS | 5:28 p.m. July 21, 2008

re: Janice
I apologize if you feel I was trying to make victims of descendants of those involved in the horrible tragedy of MMM. With ties and roots in southern and central Utah, I know the general goodness and peacefulness of these people. I was merely trying to point out to JULIO that even the Mormon settlers of that era cannot justify killing disarmed settlers. It's a terrible tragedy that is uncomfortable to look at from any viewpoint. Plus, I don't hate Mormons, I am one as are almost all of my relatives. My question to JULIO is simply at Mountain Meadows, who were the victims?

Tina | 5:35 p.m. July 21, 2008

I think Brigham intentionally lead these mormon men to commit the murders. Brigham Young also said in his journals (which I read) that the Indians killed the wagontrain people. So he must have known something was going on in Cedar City.

The Mormon future... | 5:50 p.m. July 21, 2008

is crumbling under the weight of more negative press.

First the embarrassment of the FLDS, who although the LDS Church claim is not LDS. They share the same scriptures, doctrine and history of polygamy. Many LDS today now try to justify or rationalize the polygamist past with "it was only spiritual marriage" etc. What a bunch of bunk!

Now the MMM events are being brought to light again. More LDS embarrassment. No wonder so many are leaving the Church! The growth of the LDS church is stagnant at best now. Only 8 year old baptisms are keeping the church a float population wise.

The Internet is now being used to disseminate the meat before the milk is drunk by investigators.

There is a lot of good in the LDS lifestyle. But it is built upon fanatical and salacious historical facts that have been hidden for over a century.

Go on and keep thinking that your "Pascal's Wager" will payoff. While the rest of us are truly living better and kinder lives within our communities, not closing ourselves off to others because of religious differences.

Even LDS are invited over to my house for friendly BBQ. Would LDS do the same?

Yikesters! | 6:01 p.m. July 21, 2008

Some people need to cut down on the caffeine.

Modern Mormons | 6:01 p.m. July 21, 2008

Are you LDS folks having a good time? This looks like road rage on here tonight. For those LDS who carry such grudges against those who are only trying to enlighten others with the true facts of the Mormon history, you may need serious professional help. You have denial issues! Your hate of those trying to help you understand your religion's true history will only consume you to the point of becoming a son of perdition. The MMM atrocity is a part of your religion's history and has everything to do with what your religion has become. Perhaps you LDS folks should see a head shrinker. Wait your already too close minded. That won't help at all. You need to expand your minds and see outside of your biased point of view how ridiculous it is to even attempt to rationalize away the murders of 100+ people.

To Modern Mobbers | 6:05 p.m. July 21, 2008

I don't hate Mormons. I used to be one. What I hate is being deceived and lied to. I hate the fact that it took 150 years for the truth to be told. I hate the fact that members are still being told that they will be blessed, even if they do something wrong, as long as they are obedient to their leaders. This is so, so wrong, and it simply needs to stop. The same mindset that existed at Mountain Meadows seems so alive and well today that it just seems a little creepy.

To The Mormon future... | 6:13 p.m. July 21, 2008

I think you're very possibly right in your statements. But I also think that the LDS people WOULD invite me to their BBQ. After all, we're all neighbors. Modern Mormons may seem fanatical, at times, but they've always been friendly to me. I'm not really worried about a repeat massacre.

Ridgerunner | 6:13 p.m. July 21, 2008

I wasn't there at the MMM so I am not really responsible. Because I have German ancestory, does that make me guilty of the Jewish Holocaust? Since Hitler was supposed to be a Lutheran, does that make Lutherans guilty of the Holocaust? If you are desperate to find a reason to justify your hatred of Lutheran's I guess so. Some of you hate way too much! Some of you ignore the facts (the fact that there is no evidence of B.Y's involvement) but that doesn't matter to you. You NEED him to be guilty, so in your thinking, he has to be.

The biggest LDS lie | 6:15 p.m. July 21, 2008

Many LDS members and leaders always say "even though the people aren't true/perfect the church is!"

This is the single biggest lie ever propagated by the LDS church.

In fact I believe it is that exact opposite!

The LDS people are generally very true (by this I mean good hearted and nice people), but the Church is based upon lies and not so nice historical leaders.

MMM just confirms this even more.

Talk to any LDS person and they are usually the some of the nicest people you will ever meet. They are friendly and generally honest and hardworking people. The one sad thing is that that vast majority of LDS people do not understand their own Church's history of its early leaders. They only see what is given to them by other LDS leaders.

Do not get me wrong! The LDS leaders of today are great people! They are honest and faithful and very good people. However, they will not let their own membership know the truths that have been hidden for many years.

Things like MMM and polygamy's fallout are never discussed openly. They should be. May this be a start towards that.

JULIO | 6:28 p.m. July 21, 2008

SLOW SSSSSSSS: I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. IF YOU ARE LDS YOU MUST ACKNOWLEDGE THAT IN THE BIG SCHEME OF THINGS THERE ARE NO VICTIMS IN THIS LIFE. WE ACCEPTED EVERYONES ABILITY TO USE OR MISSUSE THEIR FREE AGENCY. WE WERE NOT ONLY WILLING TO ACCEPT THE CONDITIONS BUT WE "SHOUTED FOR JOY AT THE PROSPECT. NOW HAVING SAID THAT I APPLAUD TURLEY AND CO. FOR THEIR EFFORTS AND I PLAN ON READING THE BOOK STUDIOUSLY AS I DID WITH BUSHMANS ROUGH STONE ROLLING JOSEPH SMITH BOOK. I THINK IT IS HEALTHY TO POSE ALL SIDES IN A SCHOLARLY WAY SO ALL SEEKERS OF TRUTH CAN GETS THE FACTS THAT ARE CURRENTLY AVAILABLE. BUT IT IS IMPORTANT TO BE AWARE OF THE HISTORICAL CONTEXT THAT COLORED THE ACTIONS OF ALL PARTIES. WE CAN"T JUDGE THE ACTIONS OF THE PEOPLE 150 YRS AGO WITHOUT PROPER CONTEXT.YES THERE ARE THOSE WHO WILL TRASH THE CHURCH AND ITS LEADERS REGARDLESS OF THE FACTS SET FORTH IN THE PUBLICATION. AND THERE WILL BE THOSE DECENDANTS OF THE ACCUSED OFFENDED BY THIS BOOK. NONE OF US WAS THERE ALL WE CAN DO IS TRY TO UNDERSTAND THIS TRAGEDY IN IT'S HISTORICAL CONTEXT!

Re: The Biggest lie | 6:42 p.m. July 21, 2008

CONTRADICTION?
Do not get me wrong! The LDS leaders of today are great people! They are honest and faithful and very good people. However, they will not let their own membership know the truths that have been hidden for many years
If you say this and it is all a lies, are you saying even thought the leadership lie to the members that they are still good people? Are liars good people? Hummmm? You contradict yourself greatly.

LINDA H.

Jackson | 6:49 p.m. July 21, 2008

I think there is a enough mud throwing for a life time on this post. You people need to take care of your own lives and not worry so much about the Mormons.

SlowS | 6:51 p.m. July 21, 2008

Sorry JULIO, but I think there is a heartbreaking number of victims, victims in the millions, because of the evil actions of men. If you are referring to the choices of pre-mortal man, you are talking some pretty esoteric doctrine, which I no longer accept. Let's talk about the topic of this book. The Fancher party, whatever indiscretions they may have perpetrated on the Mormon settlers could not possibly have called for them to be subject to cowardly attack, deceitful surrender and cold-blooded murder at the hands of Mormon settlers and some Native Americans. Their children certainly did not exercise any free agency as their parents were murdered in front of their eyes. We will have to disagree on these points. I hope this book, other books on the topic and further research will some day let us understand how mostly decent Mormon settlers could murder so many mostly decent disenfranchised people from Arkansas.

Opinions | 6:53 p.m. July 21, 2008

Everyone has their opinion about what they "think" or "feel" happened. This book will be an interesting source for reference, but I assume wait until I pass the veil and find out the truth.

And the Mormon Church has owned up to the event as much as possible with Pres. Hinckley asking these men to find out everything they possibly could about the subject (good and bad). As Saints, we embrace history, learn from it, and move ever onward.

What if | 7:06 p.m. July 21, 2008

Woulda, coulda, shoulda . . .

Please show me a more righteous people . . starting with yourself and your own attitude, but only after you enjoy the privilege of being chased out of your home and community 3 times and a significant percentage of your family has died as a result.

And I don't mean self-righteous . . .

HMM | 7:07 p.m. July 21, 2008

Here is another atrocity.

ï¿½We found, on our arrival at Richmond, that all these things had actually taken place; and in addition to all the rest of these unheared of outrages, eighteen of our citizens had been shot dead at Hauns' Mill, in Caldwell county, and many others wounded, all this without making any resistance. The circumstances of this massacre were as follows: some two hundred robbers, on hearing of the governor's order for extermination, rushed suddenly upon some of our Society, who, on seeing them approach, took shelter in a log building which had been occupied as a blacksmith shop. On seeing their enemies approach in a hostile manner, they cried for quarter, but were instantly fired upon, and when most of them had fallen, and were lying in heaps, in the agonies of death, the murderers put their guns through the crevices between the logs, and shot the dead and dying thro' and through, as a token of bravery, and also to glut their bloodthirsty disposition.

Clark V. Johnson, ed., The Mormon Redress Petitions: Documents of the 1833-1838 Missouri Conflict, p.89 ï¿½ 90

Any MMM critics care to comment on this atrocity committed against the LDS?

Methodist Harvard PHD | 7:13 p.m. July 21, 2008

So SMU lost to BYU. So......... why be bitter. After all its ancient history and nothing is going to change the outcome for SMU, the Fancher Party, or John Lee and his decendants. As the song says from when i was smoking pot inthe 60s at UC BERKELY: "COME ON PEOPLE NOW SMILE ON YOUR BROTHER, EVERYBODY GET TOGETHER, TRY TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER RIGHT NOW! P.S. Julio made some good points he has been studing . GOOD JOB!

huh? | 7:14 p.m. July 21, 2008

How is this massacre an LDS tragedy? They didn't die, they murdered. The tragedy is for the people, the non-Mormons, who got killed by traveling through Utah!!!

LDS tragedy? Huh????????????????

Sandy | 7:22 p.m. July 21, 2008

I wished some of you critics out there would post on here how you are connected to the Mountain Meadows Massacre and tell us all how it has been part of your life. It seems like a lot of personal involvement with ancestors perhaps on both sides or just plain Mormon basher in full force-what is it with each of you?

JULIO | 7:30 p.m. July 21, 2008

SLOW S YOU ANSWERED YOUR OWN QUESTION! WHAT KIND OF FEAR AND STRESS WOULD YOU HAVE TO BE UNDER TO COMMIT SUCH AN ACT. BUT IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR VICTIMS THE ARE ALL AROUD YOU. EVERY WANTS TO PLAY THE VICTIN AND THE BLAME GAME. WHAT IS NEEDED IS SOME INTELLECTUAL HONESTY. AND SOME DEEP SOUL SEARCHING. SPEAKING OF ESOTERIC... I WONDER WHAT JOHN D LEE AND THE FANCHERS THINK OF OUR TEMPEST IN A TEA POT. THEYVE HAD A WHILE TO WORK IT OUT AMONGST THEMSELVES WITH SOME HELP FROM THE LORD, AND ARE PROBABLY WONDERING WHY WE DONT DO SOMETHING WORTHWHILE WITH OUR TIME INSTEAD OF FIGHTING THEIR BATTLES FOR THEM ONLINE..... HEY KIDS LETS GO TO THE PARK AND PLAY.

Hey HUH? DUH? | 7:30 p.m. July 21, 2008

Don't you think that the LDS people living today who had ancestors who were perpetrators, who also are human and have genuine hurt feelings about their sad ancestors history? You have a very greedy narrow mind and attitude.

And by the way, huh?...
I am not a LDS member. But nevertheless you really take the cake on being stupid.

Richard | 7:39 p.m. July 21, 2008

To the individual who wrote that their name was "To Richard at 5:51": There was a fight for those children I cited legally to send them back to Arkansas and Missouri numbering as I stated. I am no "self proclaimed expert" on anything. I DID go to BYU for 1 year, worked on a Physics degree there before going on a mission, serving the U.S. Army and then going to Georgia Tech where my home is (as if ï¿½). If you don't think I can see the differences between the "Bible belt" version of these events and the Church's version, you are absolutely naive. Iï¿½m not name calling here but you havenï¿½t studied it much other than do a quick Google search. I did the work on it as a term paper which does mean I know more than the average individual about it. I did the paper while in Georgia at college and it stood as a testament that I stood by my faith and was willing to confront something difficult to do and present it orally in front of a large class fullof non-LDS. I'm passionate about few things and I dare say my beliefs encompass them all.

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