Deseret News | Book confronts LDS tragedy

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Book confronts LDS tragedy

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MHP | 6:52 p.m. July 19, 2008

Oh for "Heck" sake. Read the book, Read the Book, read the book. Then JUDGE.

lET'S TAKE A POLL HERE, 1, We move on or 2, we whine. I vote to move on.

Elisabeth | 7:01 p.m. July 19, 2008

Well, I can't help but notice that this history is still devoid of a perspective from the Native Americans for whom the killing was blamed. These "seemingly good" 'ol boya and gals were willing not only to kill in cold blood, but to allow their community's cultural prejudices attribute the blame to totally innocent "neighbors." I think it is adminrable that members of the LDS church are confronting this and lifting the self-imposed ban on free-speech, free-thought and free-flow of information, but wouldn't it be even better if they collaborated with the other victims; the falsely blamed. There are plenty of native american scholars that would be more than happy to provide their culture's interpretation of this shared history. Try googling Forrest S. Cuch. While this may be a good account of church history, it is still tragically ethnocentric.

Mark | 7:04 p.m. July 19, 2008

Rich: So you think BY was involved in Joseph's murder? Right on, bro! I have it from a credible source that Brigham Young was also involved in the Kennedy and King assassinations in the 60's, and set in motion the events leading to 9/11.

Comments continue below

There was a cover up | 7:06 p.m. July 19, 2008

The simple fact that 127 people were murdered with about 70 people perpetrators and with only one person (the wrong person) being brought to justice with many local church leaders involved indicates a massive cover up. Given the very tight control that BY had over the territory it is not much of a stretch to think he had knowledge of the people involved. That much is not really disputable. Make your own conclusions...

BTW, other books on the subject do not have the possibility of a conflict of interest, ie., they are not written by church employees/members.

Bryce Clark | 7:26 p.m. July 19, 2008

Looking at the behavior of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young in order to determine if the church is true is a far more complicated exercise than simply reading a few blog entries or even reading a few books. There are many areas to look at, the histories, favorable, and unfavorable, the Church and its teachings, the work left by these men from the Book of Mormon to other institutions and practices established, and many, many other bits and pieces of "evidence". It is the totality of all of these things and not anecdotes or instances of reported behavior. But the main issue that members and non-members have when discussing these things is that I, as a member, base my truth determinations regarding the Church on weighing all of this evidence PLUS spiritual or inner experiences I have had and that is not something that can be weighed or measured, and non-members are looking a the church with a much more analytical or academic point of view. Ultimately we're speaking a different language. What this book seems to be is an attempt to bridge that gap - but I'll have to wait to read it.

JayCee | 7:34 p.m. July 19, 2008

Certainly the masssacre was outrageus and indefensible, but why are the even more outrageous and indefensible actions of the people in Arkansas, Missouri, Illinois and other states against Mormons never mentioned. I don't remember hearing any apologies from them.

awesomeron | 7:52 p.m. July 19, 2008

I understand that this is one of the sadder moments of Mormon History. However you cannot change History. Say sorry and move on. None of the people alive today had anything to do with that invent, although I assume some people would be close Relatives. No one now alive is to blame. About a year or so ago there was a TV Docudrama about this incident and quite a stir on my little Island to discredit it. I caught part of the first installment and changed the station mostly because it was A. Meaningless and B. Boring. I think I would feel the same about the book. The White Settlers did some nasty stuff, however so did the Mexicans and the Indians when they got the chance. History notes that they from time to time where not kind to one another noting that lets move on. Lots to Reach and Gospel to Teach.

banderson | 8:02 p.m. July 19, 2008

As an LDS missionary in the Mexican desert in 1965 I was on my own to make some critical decisions which affected all the missionaries in Mexico. We had no phone. The mission president was hundreds of miles away. He didn't know what was happening until after the fact.

The MMM happened 100 years earlier in the Utah desert hundreds of miles from BY in SLC--days away by horseback. They didn't have cars or cellphones. They couldn't call up Brigham for advice. It's a totally different context than today. Yes, LDS members follow the Prophet, but we're not robots.

I understand, the local Mormon militia leaders, charged with the job of defending the Mormon settlers from harm, did what they thought was proper at the moment. They were very wrong. Their followers followed--They shouldn't have. I've never understood why the followers did not say, "Wait! This is not right!" Maybe the book will say.

This week the State of Missouri honored General Doniphan for a life of service, including his refusing to obey a direct military order to execute Joseph Smith. Very few defended the Mormons back then especially in Missouri. Mormons were to be exterminated. Good for Doniphan!

washCO | 8:34 p.m. July 19, 2008

Catholic priests are being prosecuted almost every day for crimes against children. Does this mean Catholics are bad? No, There are good people and bad people every where. Get over it. Remember this was over 150 years ago. Any thing else bad happen in the last 150 years?????

D. Michael Bass | 8:33 p.m. July 19, 2008

Ernest T.,

So far you have failed to show in any of your posts that FARMS "spin" or North Temple "spin" (as you would have it) is any different from your own pontificating. In other words, I might just as freely assert that you are the spin-doctor.

Implicit in your repeated accusations of "spin" is the hubristic notion that you are somehow a paragon of objectivity. If you really are such a paragon, I'm sure you'll do us all the courtesy of furnishing some evidence of it.

And btw- it's "prerogative," not "perogitive"

To John | 8:33 p.m. July 19, 2008

John,

In my opinion, the Church would be absolutely nuts to try to cover up something like Brigham Young's hand in the MMM. He accomplished more for a church and it's people economically over a short period - than anyone to date Even if he was deceitful, he wasn't stupid and an emotional decision maker. The whole MMM was a mess up with over zealous people letting emotion take over.

The MMM project has been a multi-year project involving extremely bright, independent minded scholars, who made it clear upfront that they were going to be objective regardless. The truth always set us free. Cover-ups destroy organizations in time.

Janice R. | 8:44 p.m. July 19, 2008

Mr. R. Turley is just stirring the pot once again. This is not going anywhere. Mr. Turley should have just left this alone and to rest with history. Besides LDS church members are bias on who to blame.

Lets just leave at this; Brigham Young made a huge mistake and shifted the blame to his follower John D. Lee and other loyal LDS members within the church. He did this to save the church, otherwise the LDS church would have been demolished and dissembled!

Scotty | 8:58 p.m. July 19, 2008

"The Mountain Meadows Massacre" written by Juanita Brooks has long been considered the benchmark book on this subject. Brooks points out much evidence documenting the involvement of Indians in the MMM, from the get go. It must be remembered that in southern Utah, Indians outnumbered white settlers four to one in 1857.

I do not believe the Indians were simply puppets in the hands of local Mormons in Cedar City, as many today would have us believe. If anything, it was more the other way around.

There is much reason to believe that Indians played a major role in the MMM. This should not be ignored or discounted simply for PC reasons. Facts are facts, PC or not.

Re: To John 8:33 | 9:02 p.m. July 19, 2008

And where do you think Brigham Young got all the money to accomplish nice homes for himself and all his many wives, and economically build the church, as you say? GEEZE! he got it from hard working Latter Day Saints. Give the LDS saints some credit! I believe Brigham Young covered his foot prints backwards and re-wrote and destroyed want he want to on the Mountain Meadows Massacre history event.

Stanley K. J. | 9:45 p.m. July 19, 2008

I cannot understand why the Indians are getting off on this that they had nothing to do with the m.m. massacre. OF COURSE THEY DID! Brigham Young even said they took part in the m.m.m.. We all know that the Indians hated the white man invading their land. AND the Arkansas wagon train HATED MORMONS! Good grief! It's obvious what happened. There was a lot of provoking going on from the Arkansan people and the Indians just let them have it. The Indians could care less if any of them were woman or children.

history | 10:08 p.m. July 19, 2008

it seems LDS had some darkest shadows in the past,with poligamy and masacre.anyway,its not fair to punish LDS ,let by gone be by gone.we are not here to live for yesterday.lets read the book as a history to add to our knowleges.As i see it,MORMON people mostly good people.they have GOD in their daily life,i think thats more than enough.lets lead a simple life,then we'll all have a peacefull mind.i am not LDS,i am CATHOLIC.we are all children of GOD.lets look forward to the future with bright hope.GOD IS FORGIVING!

Bob | 10:28 p.m. July 19, 2008

How is this an LDS tragey? Talk about some journalistic spin. The LDS were not killed, rather they were the killers.

Larry | 10:42 p.m. July 19, 2008

I don't think I could ever accept that Brigham Young didn't have something to do with the MMM. In my opinion he most definitely did know what was going on with MMM. I also cannot accept Brigham Young as a prophet of god, he was a fallen prophet. All he prophets after Brigham are true prophets. One prophet has nothing to do with the calling of the next, but god does have something to do with it. Brigham Young did not stop God from calling another man in the church to become a true prophet.

TO just apply to mormons | 10:59 p.m. July 19, 2008

You said:

Aren't we supposed forgive and forget?
OR does that just apply to mormons?

************************************************

So you're saying that Hauns Mill, the Extermination Order and the sending of Johnson's Army are never brought up by Mormons? LOL. You are a very funny person.

Mormons never pass up an opportunity to remind everyone how their ancestors were "wronged." The Fancher party should at least should get the same option.

Whether it be 18 Mormons in Missouri or 120+ Arkansans in So. Utah or milliions of Jews in Europe. The truth needs to be told AND RETOLD-- so it never happens again.

Janette | 11:18 p.m. July 19, 2008

Hello BOB,
It's a true tragedy for some of us LDS descendants of the perpetrators that were there during the massacre. Please don't blame the Journalist for reporting on this, It is their right to do so. And, I really doubt that you were around watching the tragedy of 150 years ago, or have any true knowledge of it, or the so called killers, to go and spout off anything you didn't witness with your own two eyes.

Doug in Louisiana | 11:20 p.m. July 19, 2008

Looks like these men are trying to make a best seller, and a lot of money. Bet the book has a big charge to it. Evey person has a idea. Will they give this book free, NO, all for the money. I will not have the time for it. Can I tell you about my family in the 1800, not much only a name and date maybe. I can make up a good story on them but is it true.

Dear Mormon Bashers, | 11:59 p.m. July 19, 2008

Okay, Mormons committed the MMM... so what? A South Korean killed over 30 people at Virginia Tech last year. Should we now hold all South Koreans responsible for his actions? I'm a convert to the Church of about 15 years now, so I really have absolutely no ties to what happened at the MMM. So why do so many of you Mormon-haters insist on dragging me and every other Mormon through the mud for this event that none of us were alive for and that all of us condemn? The perpetrators were Mormon... so what?

Words have meaning | 12:03 a.m. July 20, 2008

But words can be intrepreted to mean something completely different.

A little exercise to see if we can find the truth about a simple sentence.

I never said she stole the money.

Easy to understand. But put emphasis on each of the words seperately.

"I" never said she stole the money. Some one else said it.

I "never" said she stole the money. Flat denial.

I never "said" she stole the money. I enferred or wrote that.

I never said "she" stole the money. Someone else stole it.

I never said she "stole" the money. It was givent to her, or she borrowed it.

I never said she stole the "money". She stole something else.

Any one can get any meaning out of the bool they are looking for, depending on how they interpret it. This book wikk NEVER give anyone answers that their bias' are already looking for.

Keep trying.

Like I said before, while we on earth search for answers, the guilty parties have already been judged and dealt with.

As for me, I will spend my time trying to do something positive with my life.

San Diego | 12:03 a.m. July 20, 2008

I remember participating in Boy Scout activities on the Mountain Meadow ranch in the 1950s. It has taken years for me to receive the full impact of what happened there.

It honestly makes me think twice about rushing to limit the human rights of minority groups in California who did nothing more wrong than be born into this world with a same-sex affinity.

Re;Fools | 12:09 a.m. July 20, 2008

wow! you sound so angry! No need to be insulting and calling me a hypocrite! You don't even know me.
Your point about faith saving us from,"what"? We are all going to die. And even though you have no faith of this, we will be judged according to our faith and works.Science will not be there to help. Won't even be a factor.

Policies change with the times but revelations don't. Never has a revelation changed doctrine. Policies, yes, but never doctrine. Plenty of example in the Bible. Peter received a revelation chaging the policy of the early church toward prosleyting gentiles.

Word of wisdom: you have to understand that in 1833 no one knew about the dangers of tobacco or alcohol. Go ask your doctor (science) about the health benefits of the W of W.(food fad?) Or if you don't believe him, you smoke a pack of Camels everyday or swill a 6 pack each day and see what it does to your health.
Sorry you are so angry! I am not really a hypocrite by the way! Nor have I called you any degrading names.

Ridgerunner | 12:28 a.m. July 20, 2008

Some of you are amusing to me. You invent a conspiracy (B.Y. involement in MMM) and when there is no evidence, you claim it is a coverup! If someone is objective in their investigation you say they are prejudiced and their research can't be trusted. To some of us,it seems you are angry because there is no evidence! But you so desperately need evidence to justify your irrational hatred of the man and his religion. What does that say about you?

MMM facts and criticism | 1:26 a.m. July 20, 2008

Someone else had to help John D. Lee murder those 100+ people. No way one man could do it all. By this understanding of the basic facts we can infer that there were other perpetrators involved. Furthermore, these others were involved in the actions and the cover-up.

Yes, there was a cover-up, as only one man was ever convicted of these murders and the others got away. So we can all agree a cover-up occurred.

Some think the main question is whether or not LDS leadership, Brigham etc. was involved by ordering the actions and cover-up. To me this doesn't really matter. I'm sure if BY didn't order it, the anti's won't believe it. And if BY did order it, any evidence has most likely been destroyed long ago.

We have heard a vow of secrecy prayer was conducted after the incident, led by J.D. Lee. Was this done under the color of religion? If this can be verified as truthful, then this fact would be more damning to the Church than BY's involvement.

The the main criticism of Mormonism is... how could the self claimed only true church, be true if it could be involved in such a massacre?

Friend | 1:58 a.m. July 20, 2008

I am glad to see this volume coming out, and the care that has been taken to provide as much information about the events as possible.

Loretta | 3:55 a.m. July 20, 2008

Sin happens. Even in Zion.

Yes, sin. Not faults and failings. Not a lapse in judgment. Not just criminal acts. Sin.

Where is absolution to be found?

Perhaps another example is in order. Listen to what the Holy Father said at the Catholic Youth Conference this week. Apologize yet again for the abuses of the past, and it will make no difference to those who still choose to hate.

The surest form of revenge is to forgive your enemy totally.

Rorschach | 7:01 a.m. July 20, 2008

To Ridgerunner,

I will be patient with your ignorance and naivete. There IS evidence of a coverup. That is not being invented. In addition to the evidence of a coverup, there are ALSO many documents that are missing. We know this because these documents are mentioned and sometimes quoted in other documents that we DO have, but when we look in the journals, records, and files, specific, targeted pieces of history that we KNOW should exist, have been removed and possibly destroyed!

I think you are projecting your OWN desperate need to justify your beliefs onto others. So desperate are you to justify your feelings of self-righteousness and moral superiority that you will even stoop to making misleading comments and unsupported attacks on objective facts and the people who espouse them.

What does that say about you?

Anonymous | 7:41 a.m. July 20, 2008

To those who impatiently say to "move on" and "the past is past":

"What is past is not dead; it is not even past. If we cut ourselves off from it, we prefer to live as strangers." -- David O. McKay

Eric | 7:54 a.m. July 20, 2008

The thing I am disgusted with is that the Mormon haters, and sadly, the authors of this book, try to tie this massacre so tightly to the church. The truth is that these people who organized the battle just so happened to also be LOCAL LDS leadership acting in their official roles as civil leaders. In a war time, when those involved in carrying out the massacre were on a very high level of alert looking to defend their families and their way of life from others that they believed were coming to harm them, this wagon train wandered into the Iron County Military District. Yes, although you might reject this outright, the book could have told the story in only a few pages by giving some historical background and then closing with - "The Fancher-Baker wagon train was just in the wrong place at the wrong time." It's the same as so many other massacres long forgotten to history. We often think of indians as we have seen it portrayed in the movies. A group of people wanders into an area where the local people feel scared or threatened and a battle ensues. When one side dominates, it's massacre.

John Lee | 8:22 a.m. July 20, 2008

I think the person commenting as Get Over It is closer to the truth of this matter than the authors.

It's so easy to sensationalize this story to the readers or to those who would potentially buy this book. What you anti mormons and conspiracy theorists want to hear is that the Mormon church did this. The order came from the top. These are the same as those commenting like Todd C. The only truth in it is that the LDS leadership at that time said to the people of the Utah Territory, prepare to defend yourselves. The people were well warned to be on the lookout for mobs and militias to follow. They were to get prepared for even an invasion of the US military and these people were ready to kill any invaders.

Imagine if you were driving around Provo late on a Saturday night and came upon a big wild keg party were alcohol was being served. You went in and saw the Second Counselor and the Ward Clerk drinking a beer. You write about it with the title "Provo Fourth Ward Organizes Beer Party". It's a damnable lie to sensationalize a story with half truths.

Anonymous | 8:22 a.m. July 20, 2008

Loretta,

If you are "forgiving" as a form of revenge, is it really forgiveness?

Ernie | 8:52 a.m. July 20, 2008

Here is the paradox. It seems that the some of the early Saints and especially some of their leaders were terribly wrong in their actions. Yet their fruits that are left for us are most perfect I am talking about the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints.

I have attended many churchs. While I have met many wonderful people of different faiths, I can't find the same spirit in their church or teachings. As a Mormon I watch humble, loving, unpaid members run a church that teaches it's members to strive to live their lives like Christ did. I can only come to one conclusion. Even if early Mormons made mistakes, the Church is true.

If someone provided me the best world's evidence that the Church wasn't true, I would still want to be part of it. It is the most perfect institution on earth. The MMM was a tragedy. So is the effort by many of you to try and destroy something as wonderful as the LDS Church.

RBC | 8:51 a.m. July 20, 2008

As a life long member of the church I think there are a number of lessons we as members can learn. First, we must not diefy our church leaders. They are nothing more than men with important callings. As men we should expect them to make mistakes. If we do we probably won't be dissappointed. And second, we must never be guilty of blind obedience. We alone will answer for our actions. It's not going to fly on judgement day when we try to tell our creator that "the bishop made me do it". MMM happened because a bunch of members showed blind obedience to some very misguided church leaders. Hopefully we'll learn from our past mistakes and it will never happen again. In the mean time, as a member, I along with others, feel a collective guilt. Even though we were never there.

Let it rest | 10:41 a.m. July 20, 2008

Nobody living today should shove the blame to any one person. No one really knows what happened at the Mountains Meadows Massacre 150 years ago--none of us were there. We can only guess, and imagine in our minds, and wonder why it happened? There are many, many theories why it happened and they are only theories.

It has always puzzled me how so many good Mormon men could have done such a horrific thing, but I was not there to witness it, so I do not know the answer. It is best to let this rest and forgive.

History is full of strange events and much worse.

Historians Outside | 10:53 a.m. July 20, 2008

Until Historians outside the faith who can truly be seen as not having an agenda and then compare their conclusions with the present LDS authors conclusions, there will always be suspicion that something is still being covered up. OPEN THE VAULTS. There is no reason to not let any credible historian study anything the church has in its possession. Let detractors spew whatever and let people make an honest decision for themselves who is telling the truth.

Lisa | 11:14 a.m. July 20, 2008

TO Historian on the Outside

There is nothing in any LDS church vault that you may think there is. And if there were some sort of evidence in the churches vault I'm certain it would have been destroyed a long time ago. You are dreaming, buddy. Nothing in that church vault but membership records and genealogy. At least as far as I know. No MMM records for you to ponder. SORRY!

yawn | 12:38 p.m. July 20, 2008

another in depth look into the Mountains Meadows Massacre. As horrible as this is, it's getting old.

Medical help need.... | 1:11 p.m. July 20, 2008

Itï¿½s not the LDS church that is full of hate. It is the people who seek to find something magnificent in this tragedy, and make a senseless issue out of this Massacre. The MMM is something that no longer exists nor should affect anyone living today. It is just another historical eventï¿½ Gone with the wind.

What is wrong with you sick people who dwell on this tragedy day in and day out. What are you proving to others by filling and consuming your lives with so much hate? This tragedy has absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with any living person today. You angry people out there who dwell on the MMM, with this kind of hate need some serious psychiatric help. The kinds of hate you people are expressing on here are not normal by any means. Hate and dwelling on hate is much more evil than the MMM that happened 150 years ago.
Let this rest now!

Anonymous | 1:19 p.m. July 20, 2008

I am sad for those whom reject any accountability by the Church and your leaders. Instead of accountabilty all I hear is the testimonies. This is very troubling and very sad people, very sad.!

Richard | 1:32 p.m. July 20, 2008

To "Historian:

You are incorrect with your rebuttal against me concerning the knocking down of fences. I was glad to make an essay out of my posting but we are limited to only a few words to make our comments. The Arkansans DID knock down fences rather than go around a 1000 acre plot of land homesteaded by Mormons because it was much easier than scouting out an alternate route and whoever was the last through the fence likely didn't care to set it back up since they were not in the U.S. any more at the time and the Mormon laws couldd not possibly pertain to them since they were not Mormon and had no respect for them. Only a couple of children died as the history shows the children SURVIVORS were kept in Mormon households for years until the state was brought into the U.S> shortly following the death of Brigham Young. The poisoning of water holes is a fact of past that even today some Paiutes will still speak of through descendancy and how their Mormon neighbors witnessed it as well. The son of the chief at the time was a brave that died from it.

Richard | 1:43 p.m. July 20, 2008

Bill is correct concerning the "Missouri wildcats" whom the emigrants likely believed would protect them from the vicious Mormons because "they had encountered their kind and would serve as good bodyguards" while going through the territory. The party should have gone straight through SLC and this would never have happened either.

To anyone who thinks that BY could have had anything to do with this: I state this only because of how much has been said and those who wish to blame a single leaer for the actions of everyone even on the fringes of communication. There was no telephone. There was no telegraph there. There was no way other than sending someone with a message on horseback with a message that became outdated immediately after he left to Cedar City on towards SLC without any immediate new information about the changing, fluid, dynamic, volatile situation. BY got the news in time to pray about and if he received an answer or decided what to do even other than what we have heard up until today which was let them pass and likely keep the peace no rider could have made it back intime for the message to save lives.

Richard | 2:11 p.m. July 20, 2008

Fredd: Nearly 100% of the children survived the massacre/tragedy, whatever you wish to call it shows your bias one way or another. If you want to know more, just aske their descendants who were brought up hating Mormons back in Missouri and Arkansas (possibly or even likely). Sadly, a few of the infants did die at the hands of the MIXED LDS and Paiute group. These were held in the arms of their mothers who did not wish to let them go back and remain with the older children and survive. Killing the women does not seem to be something any group would decide to do especially "God-fearing" people. On the other hand, seeing how Mormons are so well known for keeping a journal, scripture, accurate daily records of events even today, they documented theoirown persecutions well including when the wildcats killed Mormon women for years leading up to that time before the Mormon "threat" was ran completely out of civilization under extermination orders that were signed by the governor of Missouri allowing anyone to kill a Mormon and do so legally, regardless of their age, gender, hair color, etc. This was on the books in Missouri mid-1970 even still.

Wesley J. | 2:26 p.m. July 20, 2008

Re: Mr Richard

Who killed these people? Was it the Indians or the Mormons, or both? I would say probably both, but lean towards the Indians who had one of their own die from the poison water. I have seen where a lot of people who passionately hate the Mormons have said all the Mormons who were near by the massacre were murderers, clubbing's, and shooters, and which I know is not true. The true few murderers ran and hid, and the others who were near by stayed as witnesses, and who were not shooters nor clubbers, as some nonmember Mormon hater has made up on his website. There are some terrible liars out there who just make up stuff about the Mormons with no proof what so ever. These people try with all their might to damage reputations of others. I find them very evil.

Janice | 2:47 p.m. July 20, 2008

Does anyone know if there is a blog where we don't have to log in that is similar as Des., News, blogs that we can discuss and talk about the M M M ? I have many questions about M M M?

Richard | 2:58 p.m. July 20, 2008

Wesley: I don't see that we disagree. You might try reading up to all of my postings here where I state the same things you did. I am glad to see that you are open to envisioning the dynamics of the time and the difficulties with the situation that ensued afterwards. John D. Lee gave a deathbed confession I had to cite showing how he blamed BY for not getting back with help in time, not giving him an execution order that he really wanted. He blames BY for everything as he was executed and yes, there were up to 50 other Mormon men involved in the tragedy and they were the local militia, essentially. If any of you have seen how sparsely populated that area is even today, you will likely be able to picture how hard it would have been to tell your neighbor living several miles away to go and gather the help and come on down for an anti-LDS hangin' (sarcasm doesn't help here, I know). 50 LDS men at most against 120 armed travellers in a defensive position circled wagon train. It is obvious that the LDS did not do it alone.

Richard in Texas | 3:24 p.m. July 20, 2008

I wonder if the book will address the theory of blood atonement as a motive.

I'm a devout Mormon.... | 4:13 p.m. July 20, 2008

....who is glad to have as ample an account of what can be known about the Massacre.

I disagree with my fellow Mormons who feel the event should be forgotten. It should be remembered and contemplated. This need not involve exascerbation and self-flagellation: just reflection.

I agree with my fellow Mormons who say we should look to the future, and would add that understanding MMM will help us do exactly that.

I strongly disagree with my fellow Mormons who justify, either directly or indirectly, the murder of the Missouri company, or who call it anything less than murder.

I beleive the Church is true, that Joseph was God's prophet, as was Brigham and his successors, and that God will accomplish his purposes. I imagine this will be difficult, in part because, as the Lord revealed to Joseph, almost all men are profoundly imperfect (DC 121). Mormons ought to be the last people on earth to be surprised at their own imperfections. We're all better off when we learn from our mistakes, and marvell, as I do, the Lord mercifully and patiently continues to invite us to share in it.

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