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LDS reassign Russia-bound missionaries
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hmmmm | 6:14 a.m. July 15, 2008
sounds like the late 1930s. Military actions if needed against US for defense
shield and documentation issues.
Susy | 7:11 a.m. July 15, 2008
well don`t you need a visa to go to the USA?
Unless you don`t have a green card you are supposed
to leave the US within 90 days too.
Please correct me if I`m wrong.
So what`s wrong with the Russian policy anyway?
Unless you don`t have a green card you are supposed
to leave the US within 90 days too.
Please correct me if I`m wrong.
So what`s wrong with the Russian policy anyway?
Comments continue below
RockOn | 8:55 a.m. July 15, 2008
Susy... Everything is wrong with the Russian policy. First, the US policy is
other than you've stated. Student and group visas to the USA are relatively
easy to get for extended stays. Having been there 50+ times the Soviets do
everything to assert their Red mentality today. They watch the US policy and try
to make their several steps harder and more expensive. When I've met with
their chief bureaucrats I've tried to explain to them that FEW people want
to come to Russia so charging MORE than the US further discourages tourism. The
key to make it EASIER for people to go there. They can't see it. The
damaging effects of communism still rule the minds there.
t | 9:02 a.m. July 15, 2008
Susy, the missionaries used to receive an extended visa that allowed them to
stay for a longer period of time before renewing. It's a similar process
for missionaries all over the world. The issue is the 90 days is drastically
shorter, and therefore much more expensive, time consuming, etc. I believe many
countries offer extended visas for various causes.
To Susy: | 9:12 a.m. July 15, 2008
I don't think anyone is arguing against a nation's right to require
visas. I think the complaint about the new Russian policy is that those on
humanitarian/missionary visas now incur the extra expense of time/money to renew
them every 90 days. I don't believe that the US requires, for example, the
100+ Temple Square sister missionaries from numerous foreign countries to leave
the US during their tenure as missionaries.
Jeremy | 9:13 a.m. July 15, 2008
Why do missionaries even make it into the newspaper anymore? They
shouldn't be worrying about getting visas for these guys. Besides instead
of a mission these guys and gals should go off and serve their country instead.
Trust me you feel much more noble for doing that. Serve your country with
dignity instead of serving a mission for a lost cause faith.
Russia RM | 9:34 a.m. July 15, 2008
It was a MIRACLE that we were ever there to begin with!
Oracle | 9:36 a.m. July 15, 2008
Woudn't it be great if there were other, nearby, Russian speaking areas
where Russian speaking missionaries could be sent for the remainder of their
mission, after 90 days in Russia; and from which, missionaries could be sent to
Russia, for 90 days, and then return to their original assignment?
However, there must not be such areas, or we would probably be doing just that.
However, there must not be such areas, or we would probably be doing just that.
Actually, Susy... | 9:51 a.m. July 15, 2008
The US has a religious worker visa called a Type R, which allows ministers of
religion, including LDS missionaries, to stay in the US for up to 5 years
without leaving every 3 months. I posted this earlier, but made the mistake of
including the URL for the page on the state department's website that has
this information. You'll have to look it up yourself.
Traveling Student | 9:59 a.m. July 15, 2008
Yes, these visa laws are much more restrictive than any country I've ever
visited. I recently was able to obtain a year-long multiple entry visa for study
in China. Russia seems to be going back to darker times.
Durak | 10:04 a.m. July 15, 2008
We had to do a similar thing in France (leave the country every 90 days) without
a long term visa. Leaving the country was cheaper than the visa at the time.
However, the requirement in this scenario has the foreigners returning to their
home country after 90 days whereas we just needed to leave French soil (to a
neighboring country) and return for another 90 days.
Oh, Jeremy! | 10:07 a.m. July 15, 2008
You make me laugh!
Bill | 10:15 a.m. July 15, 2008
Where ever they go they will do a great job. As a convert to the church I love
them all and wish them GOD speed.
enlightened | 10:17 a.m. July 15, 2008
I served 8 years in the military and converted to Mormonism later in life.
Serving a mission is no less noble than serving in the military. Trust me,
serving a mission for the LDS Church an important work.
To Jeremy | 10:18 a.m. July 15, 2008
I would assume by your comment that you do not understand that the Deseret News
is owned by the LDS church. One of the purposes of the paper is to provide
stories such as this one---about the church. Members of the LDS faith look to
this paper to provide information about news within the church or things that
effect the church---as well as general national and local stories.
Jeremy | 10:29 a.m. July 15, 2008
No, I know it's owned by the church. I just love how we all jump to the
aid of missionaries. Trust me their work isn't that important to society.
A story about visas and there are soldiers getting blown up in Iraq everyday.
I'm just saying there is more important news in the world. After all,
aren't mormons too busy excommunicating people who make calendars? Yet
they don't seem to care about missionaries defacing a Catholic alter.
There are more important current events right now.
Bias Spotter | 10:56 a.m. July 15, 2008
The phrase "parents send their children" is all you need to know about
the extreme bias of this writer.
GeeBee | 10:54 a.m. July 15, 2008
With the brazen way we've been waving our guns about with regard to the
missile sheild, it's no wonder they don't care to help us out with
visas.
Iraq? | 10:55 a.m. July 15, 2008
To Jeremy
Are you suggesting they're running out of soldiers to blow up in Iraq and we should send more? How can you say that anything is a useless, especially in comparison to the war in Iraq? I don't know if you've noticed but everyone hates the president over it
Are you suggesting they're running out of soldiers to blow up in Iraq and we should send more? How can you say that anything is a useless, especially in comparison to the war in Iraq? I don't know if you've noticed but everyone hates the president over it
To Jeremy | 11:02 a.m. July 15, 2008
What have you done for society? It's easy to complain, it's harder to
serve & love others.
Jeremy | 11:07 a.m. July 15, 2008
I did serve my country and I view that as helping society.
Rachel - Russian RM | 11:14 a.m. July 15, 2008
Gees - Jeremy did you ever serve a mission for LDS church -- let me tell you as
one who did that its no picnic. I worked destitute orphanages and schools,
taught English, taught people about God, cleaned hospital and fed dying people
in those hospitals. It's true there a some young dumb missionaries out
there - but as a military brat and the daughter of a former base commander the
military has for more problems with their soldiers than the church does with
it's missionaries.
To Jeremy | 11:15 a.m. July 15, 2008
I'm not knocking your service. Please don't knock mine.
To Jeremy | 11:15 a.m. July 15, 2008
Grow up...spewing your personal distaste for those of the LDS faith and your
naysaying nature for thoughts other than your own will go for naught...
Many LDS servicemen and women are serving in Irag and elsewhere so that the freedom you enjoy "to vent" can be available to others not so fortunate as to have been born in the U.S.A. A number have even laid down their lives...don't denigrate their service and sacrifice or what you don't have a clue about...
Immaturity sadly results in ignorant acts such as the altar incident and conduct unbecoming a member results in the Church discipline you refer to...but please don't display such ignorance as to portend all LDS or anyone else for that matter condone such behaviors as the altar incident and leave it those of the LDS faith to manage their own membership...
You seem to delight in selective dart throwing...a lesson in tolerance might help you...maybe a little...
Many LDS servicemen and women are serving in Irag and elsewhere so that the freedom you enjoy "to vent" can be available to others not so fortunate as to have been born in the U.S.A. A number have even laid down their lives...don't denigrate their service and sacrifice or what you don't have a clue about...
Immaturity sadly results in ignorant acts such as the altar incident and conduct unbecoming a member results in the Church discipline you refer to...but please don't display such ignorance as to portend all LDS or anyone else for that matter condone such behaviors as the altar incident and leave it those of the LDS faith to manage their own membership...
You seem to delight in selective dart throwing...a lesson in tolerance might help you...maybe a little...
Inspired | 11:15 a.m. July 15, 2008
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't missionary callings
"inspired." I wasn't aware that one could so easily be
"re-assigned" to another calling in another location.
So all that time spent preparing to serve a mission in Russia is now all for naught? I feel bad for the elders and sisters whose time was wasted.
So all that time spent preparing to serve a mission in Russia is now all for naught? I feel bad for the elders and sisters whose time was wasted.
deseretnews.com moderator | 11:18 a.m. July 15, 2008
Let's stay on topic. Comments from here on out about LDS mission service
and service to country are not part of this story. Thread previously approved
aside, let's get back to topic.
Chris Laurence | 11:25 a.m. July 15, 2008
Missionaries are called to preach the gospel. Location is fungible.
to inspired | 11:31 a.m. July 15, 2008
God knows all and your time ever learning anything, including a language is
never wasted, in the future it can help you understand and connect with other
people. I studied Russian for 2 years and wanted to serve my mission there, I
recieved my call to Mongolia, and never used my Russian, but I don't
consider learning Russian a waste. I have a deep love for Russians and now also
Mongolians. If the missionaries that are re-assigned have the right attitude
and are serving for the right reasons it shouldn't matter where they serve,
it matters how!
Matt | 11:32 a.m. July 15, 2008
What a great shock this must be to the mormons.
I remember when I was one, and we were all told that when Russia was opened to 'the gospel' it (the 'gospel') would explode and there would be tremendous growth.
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but it never happened did it?
The mormon church's growth in Russia was second only to Y2K as the biggest non-event I can think of.
I remember when I was one, and we were all told that when Russia was opened to 'the gospel' it (the 'gospel') would explode and there would be tremendous growth.
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but it never happened did it?
The mormon church's growth in Russia was second only to Y2K as the biggest non-event I can think of.
Russian RM | 11:34 a.m. July 15, 2008
I served in the Yekaterinburg mission not long ago. It was then only required to
renew your visa after a year of being in the country. They did however require
us to obtain a migration card every 6 months, which entailed leaving the country
as well. I feel horrible for the Elders and Sisters that are being reassigned,
Russia is an amazing place. But to "Inspired", mission calls are very
inspired, but the Hand of the Lord will not be stopped, not even by visa
requirements, there are no obstacles that can stop the work. They will be sent
to wherever they are needed, which is determined by revelation. I have no doubt
of that!
Russian RM | 11:38 a.m. July 15, 2008
Matt- Have you been to Russia? I've been to the heart of it, no European
influence, no glamour of tourism, straight up dirt roads and horse drawn carts.
The growth in Russia is tremendous. Have patience, there are miracles happening
in Russia everyday! I'm sorry you assumed otherwise.
Inspired | 11:42 a.m. July 15, 2008
On the official Mormon website, regarding missionary work, it specifically
states that the person who has been found worthy to serve a mission is called to
serve in a DESIGNATED AREA. It does not state that the location is fungible.
(Go look it up!)
So in this case, those training to serve in Russia are being RECALLED. So, by the specificity of the church's own words, the prophet must have been wrong in calling those elders and sisters to serve in Russia who must now retrain to serve somewhere else.
Just thinking outside the box.
So in this case, those training to serve in Russia are being RECALLED. So, by the specificity of the church's own words, the prophet must have been wrong in calling those elders and sisters to serve in Russia who must now retrain to serve somewhere else.
Just thinking outside the box.
Nothing New | 11:48 a.m. July 15, 2008
Missionaries in many contries have been required to physically leave that
country to renew visas. This was in effect in Thailand where I served.
Missionary work there started in 1968 and the visa renewal process was ineffect
most of the time until 1992. Every 10 weeks missionaries would leave to a
neighboring country (Laos, then Cambodia, then Laos again the finally Malaysia)
to renew visas. The process was disruptive to the work, but was requried for
missionaries to continue to work in Thailand. In Thailand we could get a visa
for the country to visit and a return visa back to Thailand all BEFORE we left
Thailand. Neighboring countries were happy to get the visa income for a very
short visit. After much work with the government Thailand granted 100 2-year
visas starting in 1992 and increased the limit (though no increase was needed)
some time later.
The problem with Russia is that the country is so large a trip to a neighboring country can be much further than Thailand missionaries dealt with (except for the period of time Thai missionaries flew to Malaysia).
The problem with Russia is that the country is so large a trip to a neighboring country can be much further than Thailand missionaries dealt with (except for the period of time Thai missionaries flew to Malaysia).
Art | 11:51 a.m. July 15, 2008
The dictatorship is coming back.
Russian leaders make money anyway they can. Requiring travel every 90 days, at western currency rates, makes for good government income.
I've met our missionaries in Russia in the past and they are very dedicated and loving of the Russian people. The work is VERY difficult as nearly all men smoke and drink. I watched ten-year-old boys openly trying to buy cigarettes; and fifteen-year-olds fall-down drunk on the sidewalk of a major street.
Male self-respect is challenging to attain when the government provides food, housing day care and orphanages!
The Church has made an impact over these past 18 years and it will continue with missionaries and leaders from other areas.
Russian leaders make money anyway they can. Requiring travel every 90 days, at western currency rates, makes for good government income.
I've met our missionaries in Russia in the past and they are very dedicated and loving of the Russian people. The work is VERY difficult as nearly all men smoke and drink. I watched ten-year-old boys openly trying to buy cigarettes; and fifteen-year-olds fall-down drunk on the sidewalk of a major street.
Male self-respect is challenging to attain when the government provides food, housing day care and orphanages!
The Church has made an impact over these past 18 years and it will continue with missionaries and leaders from other areas.
Alex | 11:54 a.m. July 15, 2008
Question:
Why would God tell the presidency to send missionaries to the MTC to be trained to go to Russia when he knew that they wouldn't be able to go?
My answer:
Because we need people to go there until they can't anymore. Knowing the exact minute when this would happen is not needed here, especially since all that needs to be done to fix the problem is to reassign them.
A knowledge by revelation that we need to preach the gospel in Russia is sufficient enough of a revelation for me to move forward in the work. The point is that the missionaries go where needed. I went where called, and I'll do so again. I went to New Jersey and could have been transferred any old place. I served and was blessed for doing so. It wouldn't have mattered where I was sent. The Lord made my mission experience what it became.
Why would God tell the presidency to send missionaries to the MTC to be trained to go to Russia when he knew that they wouldn't be able to go?
My answer:
Because we need people to go there until they can't anymore. Knowing the exact minute when this would happen is not needed here, especially since all that needs to be done to fix the problem is to reassign them.
A knowledge by revelation that we need to preach the gospel in Russia is sufficient enough of a revelation for me to move forward in the work. The point is that the missionaries go where needed. I went where called, and I'll do so again. I went to New Jersey and could have been transferred any old place. I served and was blessed for doing so. It wouldn't have mattered where I was sent. The Lord made my mission experience what it became.
To Inspired | 12:03 p.m. July 15, 2008
The problem with the thought process being followed in your "just thinking
outside the box" comment is that which most of the Christian world has with
prophets and prophecy and revelation... that it is static.
Did it occur to you that maybe, just maybe, God can reveal something at one given moment, like calling worthy individuals to serve in Russia, and then later decide that based off conditions beyond the control of Church Leaders, He can then provide direction and inspiration to have them serve elsewhere?
The point is, individuals are called by Him to serve as missionaries. If He decides to later change where He sends missionaries (for whatever reason), isn't that His prerogative?
Missionaries don't "retrain". There is not a different set of teachings or belief taught in one area of the world in comparison to another. The only difference is going to be the language they learn (if any). I personally don't see any disconnect between the validity of a call issued by the Prophet of God and the destination one fills that call in...
Did it occur to you that maybe, just maybe, God can reveal something at one given moment, like calling worthy individuals to serve in Russia, and then later decide that based off conditions beyond the control of Church Leaders, He can then provide direction and inspiration to have them serve elsewhere?
The point is, individuals are called by Him to serve as missionaries. If He decides to later change where He sends missionaries (for whatever reason), isn't that His prerogative?
Missionaries don't "retrain". There is not a different set of teachings or belief taught in one area of the world in comparison to another. The only difference is going to be the language they learn (if any). I personally don't see any disconnect between the validity of a call issued by the Prophet of God and the destination one fills that call in...
Anonymous | 12:15 p.m. July 15, 2008
This really can't be that newsworthy?
Mahonri | 12:19 p.m. July 15, 2008
It will all be worked out and the naysayers will once again sit back and look
foolish.
Inspired | 12:17 p.m. July 15, 2008
The root of my point is that God is supposed to be all-knowing. God should have
already known what Russia was going to be doing.
Don't get me wrong; I think it is good for the church to be fleible enough to change with the political tides. I just think that it seems odd that the worthy members called to serve in Russia must now learn another language because "someone got it wrong" the first time.
And, since God is all-knowing, He didn't get it wrong, so it must have been the prophet, right? Or were they both wrong together?
Don't get me wrong; I think it is good for the church to be fleible enough to change with the political tides. I just think that it seems odd that the worthy members called to serve in Russia must now learn another language because "someone got it wrong" the first time.
And, since God is all-knowing, He didn't get it wrong, so it must have been the prophet, right? Or were they both wrong together?
JoJo | 12:33 p.m. July 15, 2008
At the end of the day, what matters is not WHERE you serve but HOW.
To Inspired | 12:36 p.m. July 15, 2008
Mission calls are inspired. World leaders often aren't. The
"someone" who is wrong is the Russian government.
Hi Jeremy | 12:46 p.m. July 15, 2008
Here's a thought. You don't like stories about Mormons....please
don't read the paper that writes them. You don't like Mormons in
general in Utah? Simple. Move.
John Lambert | 12:47 p.m. July 15, 2008
To Susy,
You are wrong. I had four companions on my mission (in Nevada) who were foriegners and none of them ever had to go and renew their visas.
One there was an elder from somewhere in Latin America (it might have been Argentina or Guatamala) who had to go to his country's consulate in Los Angeles to renew his visa, but we never had any missionry have to leave the country to renew their visa.
At BYU I knew many foriegn students. I think I knew two who because of various circumstances had to leave the country to renew their visas, but in general they were able to stay here for a year or more on one visa.
You are wrong. I had four companions on my mission (in Nevada) who were foriegners and none of them ever had to go and renew their visas.
One there was an elder from somewhere in Latin America (it might have been Argentina or Guatamala) who had to go to his country's consulate in Los Angeles to renew his visa, but we never had any missionry have to leave the country to renew their visa.
At BYU I knew many foriegn students. I think I knew two who because of various circumstances had to leave the country to renew their visas, but in general they were able to stay here for a year or more on one visa.
Russia RM | 12:49 p.m. July 15, 2008
I'm just happy that the church is still allowed to openly exist in Russia.
It could and has been much, much worse. It's still a miracle that
missionaries were ever allowed to enter the country! Who could have imagined it
20 years ago. I'm grateful everyday for the two years (1992-94) I was able
to spend among the Russian people. They've suffered much throughout
history. I pray that their leaders have the foresight to prevent a return to the
spiritual & physical suffering of the past.
John Lambert | 12:53 p.m. July 15, 2008
To Oracle,
There are large Russian speaking population in Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Belarus and the Baltic States. However there are lots of logistical issues in arranging for cross national missions, especially since all these areas have major issues with Russian imperialism. I know when the church opened a mission in Poland the government required that the church make Poland a seperate mission and would not let it be part of a mission based in a foriegn country and they also specifically banned the church from apointing a German as mission president.
There are large Russian speaking population in Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Belarus and the Baltic States. However there are lots of logistical issues in arranging for cross national missions, especially since all these areas have major issues with Russian imperialism. I know when the church opened a mission in Poland the government required that the church make Poland a seperate mission and would not let it be part of a mission based in a foriegn country and they also specifically banned the church from apointing a German as mission president.
Alex | 12:59 p.m. July 15, 2008
Inspired:
"The root of my point is that God is supposed to be all-knowing. God should have already known what Russia was going to be doing. "
Knowing what Russia was going to be doing doesn't mean that the prophet needed to know the exact minute when it would happen. Until the restriction arrives, you still need to preach the gospel and you still need to call missionaries there.
A knowledge by revelation that events like this would take place factor instead into the long term planning of missionary work, such as the allocation of missionaries.
The prophet is inspired with what he needs to do to move the work forward. Those who are being reassigned, while I am sure there is a little disappointment at not being able to go where they anticipated, serve no less honorably by reassignment than missionaries who were called and spent their entire missionaries in one mission.
Look, I spent years learning German, requested a foreign mission, and was sent stateside. I was disappointed at first, but served and count it among the greatest blessings of my life.
"The root of my point is that God is supposed to be all-knowing. God should have already known what Russia was going to be doing. "
Knowing what Russia was going to be doing doesn't mean that the prophet needed to know the exact minute when it would happen. Until the restriction arrives, you still need to preach the gospel and you still need to call missionaries there.
A knowledge by revelation that events like this would take place factor instead into the long term planning of missionary work, such as the allocation of missionaries.
The prophet is inspired with what he needs to do to move the work forward. Those who are being reassigned, while I am sure there is a little disappointment at not being able to go where they anticipated, serve no less honorably by reassignment than missionaries who were called and spent their entire missionaries in one mission.
Look, I spent years learning German, requested a foreign mission, and was sent stateside. I was disappointed at first, but served and count it among the greatest blessings of my life.
John Lambert | 12:59 p.m. July 15, 2008
To inspired,
What makes you think that the time planning to serve in Russia was for nought? There are hundreds of things that may result. Anyway it did not say where the missionaries will be sent. Maybe some of them will go to Eastern Ukraine where most people speak Russian or to serve among Russians in Latvia and its neighbors. Maybe they will get sent to state side mission and manage to teach recent immigrants from Russia. Maybe they will go to Western Ukraine and teach in Ukranina which is not very different from Russian.
There are a lot of other possibilities. I have known many people who had their mission calls changed due to visa issues. Just because the Lord wants someone to be called somewhere does not mean he wants them to go there.
What makes you think that the time planning to serve in Russia was for nought? There are hundreds of things that may result. Anyway it did not say where the missionaries will be sent. Maybe some of them will go to Eastern Ukraine where most people speak Russian or to serve among Russians in Latvia and its neighbors. Maybe they will get sent to state side mission and manage to teach recent immigrants from Russia. Maybe they will go to Western Ukraine and teach in Ukranina which is not very different from Russian.
There are a lot of other possibilities. I have known many people who had their mission calls changed due to visa issues. Just because the Lord wants someone to be called somewhere does not mean he wants them to go there.
John Lambert | 1:06 p.m. July 15, 2008
To Matt,
Two issues. One, I am not sure why you are acting like 20,000 members is nothing. Two, what you meant by "Russia" in that day was the Soviet Union. There are over 10,000 members in Ukraine, 2,000 in Armenia, and well over 1,000 in the other former Soviet nations. This is not counting the members in Eastern Bloc countries or in Mongolia, which both also opened up because of the fall of Communism.
Two issues. One, I am not sure why you are acting like 20,000 members is nothing. Two, what you meant by "Russia" in that day was the Soviet Union. There are over 10,000 members in Ukraine, 2,000 in Armenia, and well over 1,000 in the other former Soviet nations. This is not counting the members in Eastern Bloc countries or in Mongolia, which both also opened up because of the fall of Communism.
John Lambert | 1:13 p.m. July 15, 2008
To inspired,
You are not thinking outside the box but inside it. You assume that a call is unchangeble and irrevocable and that if it is not fulfilled it is wrong.
You have also confused an attempt to explain normal procedures with the actual situation. I knew a lady who was reassigned from being a deaf missionary in Pheonix to being a deaf missionary in New York City. I have known missionaries that due to illness or other issues have been reassigned to finish their missions off state side after they were in a foriegn country. I have known missionaries who have served in one mission for several months before they are able to get a visa to somewhere else.
Your basic problem is that you do not understand callings in the church. We are called all the time. People are called as bishops, elders quorum presidents, choir leaders and on and on, and then they are released. A mission call is the same way, you can be released or reassigned from a mission like any other call, that does not negate that you were meant to recieve the initial call.
You are not thinking outside the box but inside it. You assume that a call is unchangeble and irrevocable and that if it is not fulfilled it is wrong.
You have also confused an attempt to explain normal procedures with the actual situation. I knew a lady who was reassigned from being a deaf missionary in Pheonix to being a deaf missionary in New York City. I have known missionaries that due to illness or other issues have been reassigned to finish their missions off state side after they were in a foriegn country. I have known missionaries who have served in one mission for several months before they are able to get a visa to somewhere else.
Your basic problem is that you do not understand callings in the church. We are called all the time. People are called as bishops, elders quorum presidents, choir leaders and on and on, and then they are released. A mission call is the same way, you can be released or reassigned from a mission like any other call, that does not negate that you were meant to recieve the initial call.
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