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U.S. Senate committee to investigate FLDS
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Grandpa Phil | 7:25 a.m. July 17, 2008
RC, the "Willy (I mean gramps)" comment was weak, even for you. You
can't seem to get over the fact that there are a lot of non-FLDS folks out
here that disagree with your characterization of the FLDS lifestyle. Be cause
we disagree with you, we all must be FLDS. Grow up. And don't pretend to
care about the FLDS or their children; your pontification about their imagined
evils is wearing on our patience and, after over 200 foster daughters and nine
children of my own, I have the patience of Job. If you haven't checked the
record lately, please note that no one agrees with you. Wail and knash teeth
all you like; you are amusing at best.
At 11:46, YOU are the one who said that their actions fire your imagination in a negative way. We don't make this stuff up: you freely admitted that your imagination is the source of your accusations and hostility. We have heard numerous FLDS people write that your perceptions (fired by your imagination) are wrong but you continue to spout the same old rhetoric. Get some facts and spout those for a change - it will do you some good.
At 11:46, YOU are the one who said that their actions fire your imagination in a negative way. We don't make this stuff up: you freely admitted that your imagination is the source of your accusations and hostility. We have heard numerous FLDS people write that your perceptions (fired by your imagination) are wrong but you continue to spout the same old rhetoric. Get some facts and spout those for a change - it will do you some good.
realitycheck | 8:51 a.m. July 17, 2008
lol, gramps - I never said it "fires my imagination" - I said it about
the imagination of the country, and it does. Why do you think all this is
happening? Perhaps there are few child brides and the other claims of the
nation. I'm giving the FLDS the benefit of the doubt. My point is that
everything I've said is true, and they freely admit it. Most FLDS
don't go to college, and it's got nothing to do with money. It's
got to do with their crazy religious upbringing. You may think that's ok -
I find it abhorrent.
You crack me up with your "pontification" and "patience of Job". And 200 foster children? Don't be rediculous. Try to at least make up reasonable stories. LOL
You enjoy taking people's words and twisting them to your own benefit. I don't.
I want the kids to have every chance to excel. You don't.
And for every 8 yr old working the construction site instead of being in school, you cheer, and I cringe.
If you feel this way, I feel bad for your supposed children, all 209 of them!! - (209 children and you're not FLDS? LOL)
You crack me up with your "pontification" and "patience of Job". And 200 foster children? Don't be rediculous. Try to at least make up reasonable stories. LOL
You enjoy taking people's words and twisting them to your own benefit. I don't.
I want the kids to have every chance to excel. You don't.
And for every 8 yr old working the construction site instead of being in school, you cheer, and I cringe.
If you feel this way, I feel bad for your supposed children, all 209 of them!! - (209 children and you're not FLDS? LOL)
Comments continue below
Grandpa Phil | 10:02 a.m. July 17, 2008
Wow, it went from 12 yr olds on the construction site to 8 yr olds on the
construction site. SOmebody must have refueled your imagination. Did it EVER
occur to you that, if kids are working on construction sites that they might be
there working alongside there fathers learning a work ethic and construction
skills. The Amish do it, too. Go harp on them for a while.
Oh, and, yes, there are people in the world who devote their time as House Parents in Foster Homes to take care of foster children. My wife and I did it for 5 years right after we got married and, yes, we did have over 200 teenage foster daughters. We took care of them for 60 days each and either returned them to their families or sent them on to long-term foster care. Your opinion on that subject is irrelevant. And there are also families outside of the FLDS church that have more than two kids, a dog and a cat. I am LDS and we tend to have large families, too.
I just think it's OK for parents to raise their kids as they see fit; you don't. We will never agree.
Oh, and, yes, there are people in the world who devote their time as House Parents in Foster Homes to take care of foster children. My wife and I did it for 5 years right after we got married and, yes, we did have over 200 teenage foster daughters. We took care of them for 60 days each and either returned them to their families or sent them on to long-term foster care. Your opinion on that subject is irrelevant. And there are also families outside of the FLDS church that have more than two kids, a dog and a cat. I am LDS and we tend to have large families, too.
I just think it's OK for parents to raise their kids as they see fit; you don't. We will never agree.
Grandpa Phil | 10:11 a.m. July 17, 2008
LOL at "crazy religious upbring". THAT is your issue isn't it?
You say it's about freedom for the kids but you mean freedom from their
"religious oppresson". The FLDS have their own religious tenets and
they have a right to teach them to their children in whatever manner they
choose. You don't like that? Move to someplace where religious intolerance
is the State policy. That might be the State of Texas or Cuba or China or Iran.
The point is, they have the inalienable right to do so here in the US. And you
belong to the 1% of the American population that maintains the inalienable right
to remain stupid. Enjoy the Freedom.
realitycheck | 10:53 a.m. July 17, 2008
you still amuse me to no end, gramps. They keep their children hidden from the
world, filling their heads with hate for the outside world, thereby remove the
right of the children to grow up free. THAT'S my issue. And you still
don't get it.
Helping raise some kids part time does not make you a foster parent for 200 kids. Sounds more like a part-time baby-sitter. Doesn't make you a parent.
And if you think parents have the right to teach their children anything they want, then you have no compassion for children - only for parents. You belong to the group of parents that believe children are your PROPERTY and you can teach them anything, regardless of how it affects them longterm.
That's the same mindset as the guy in Austria that locked his daughter in the basement and forced her to have his children.
So sad for the children when parents care more about a church and their own adgenda than they care about their own children. You're in good company with the FLDS. You belong back in the 1800's, when slavery was still legal.
Helping raise some kids part time does not make you a foster parent for 200 kids. Sounds more like a part-time baby-sitter. Doesn't make you a parent.
And if you think parents have the right to teach their children anything they want, then you have no compassion for children - only for parents. You belong to the group of parents that believe children are your PROPERTY and you can teach them anything, regardless of how it affects them longterm.
That's the same mindset as the guy in Austria that locked his daughter in the basement and forced her to have his children.
So sad for the children when parents care more about a church and their own adgenda than they care about their own children. You're in good company with the FLDS. You belong back in the 1800's, when slavery was still legal.
Re: realitycheck | 2:19 p.m. July 17, 2008
You are quite amusing! It's funny to read your posts, especially after
returning home from a day of shopping WITH MY CHILDREN out in the WORLD (gasp!)
be assured, they weren't scared to death either. They didn't even
cling to my skirt once! In fact it was quite the opposite, chasing them all over
Penneys, and listening to them ask for everything, they did buy quite a few
(gasp!) TOYS! And when I say they bought them, I'm serious. They have their
own money they earn, and they know how to count it out and pay for it. If you
need to know their ages, 6, 4, and 2.
Continue to rant and rave all you want, like Grandpa Phil says, you are ammusing at best! I won't even bother arguing with you, I have more important things to do, I promised to have a waterfight with my children after lunch (hope I don't leave you gasping to bad) It's nice to have good entertainment!
Continue to rant and rave all you want, like Grandpa Phil says, you are ammusing at best! I won't even bother arguing with you, I have more important things to do, I promised to have a waterfight with my children after lunch (hope I don't leave you gasping to bad) It's nice to have good entertainment!
Grandpa Phil | 2:27 p.m. July 17, 2008
Each and every time you write the word "You" followed by anything at
all, you have been wrong. You have done it to zxcvbnm, me, and the FLDS.
Don't you get TIRED of being wrong? When will you get it that, for the
FLDS, their children ARE their agenda. You may not see it that way but who
cares. Before the raid, the children were told that the outside world was
dangerous (true) and does not share the same standards (also true). If their
heads are filled with hate now, it is not because of anything their parents have
taught them; it is a result of what the State DID TO THEM. The CPS authorites
were the best training aid the parents could have had regarding the hostility of
the outside world. If the children wanted to do some additional study in
outside world hostility, their parents could let them read all of these blogs.
THAT would seal the deal for sure.
realitycheck | 3:33 p.m. July 17, 2008
well it's about time, 2:19pm girl. outstanding. Looks like you've
been taking my advice. Now if you can get the rest of your crew to do the same,
then things will be much better for the children.
Of course, it's unclear why you would be shopping at Penney's since it's mostly a clothes store and you all wear uniforms that can't be bought in stores, but that's your business.
Or have you shed the uniforms and switched to individuality? Now THAT would be wonderful, for you and the kids!
Good job!!
Of course, it's unclear why you would be shopping at Penney's since it's mostly a clothes store and you all wear uniforms that can't be bought in stores, but that's your business.
Or have you shed the uniforms and switched to individuality? Now THAT would be wonderful, for you and the kids!
Good job!!
realitycheck | 3:42 p.m. July 17, 2008
LOL - I don't see where I've been wrong yet at all. Perhaps it's
your rose-colored glasses?
First of all - the FLDS posters on here (ie - From the Creek and the 2:189pm girl) are from Utah and Colorado City, not Texas, and their children probably know nothing about any raids since they are not allowed to read newspapers or watch the news. So they have no reason to fear nor hate the outside world - and according to 2:19pm girl the children like going out. (that's outstanding, by the way.)
And if the children read this blog, and read my posts, they would see that I have only great things to say about the kids. It's the over-zealous parents that over-sermonize and undermine their futures that should scare them.
You talk about how much you care about the kids. Yet it doesn't faze you a bit that the parents instill a mindset that promotes a lack of higher education. You find it acceptable (even beneficial) that the parents want the childen to stay with them forever. Most parents want their children to grow up and spread their wings. You promote the clipping of those wings. Good job.
First of all - the FLDS posters on here (ie - From the Creek and the 2:189pm girl) are from Utah and Colorado City, not Texas, and their children probably know nothing about any raids since they are not allowed to read newspapers or watch the news. So they have no reason to fear nor hate the outside world - and according to 2:19pm girl the children like going out. (that's outstanding, by the way.)
And if the children read this blog, and read my posts, they would see that I have only great things to say about the kids. It's the over-zealous parents that over-sermonize and undermine their futures that should scare them.
You talk about how much you care about the kids. Yet it doesn't faze you a bit that the parents instill a mindset that promotes a lack of higher education. You find it acceptable (even beneficial) that the parents want the childen to stay with them forever. Most parents want their children to grow up and spread their wings. You promote the clipping of those wings. Good job.
Grandpa Phil | 9:20 a.m. July 18, 2008
Again, a good laugh about "clipping wings". What you call wing
clipping, I call parental direction, albeit, not in the direction you would want
them to go. Every time we hear from any of the FLDS parents, they speak in
stark contrast to your view which you have admitted emenates from your
imagination. You claim that your allegations are true and are "readily
admitted to by the FLDS"; however, we have YET to hear one FLDS parent
agree with ANYTHING you have said about them. And, remind me of one "great
thing" you have said about the children. You constantly lament their
eventual demise at the hands of their dastardly parents. Your chivalrous quest
to "save the children" can be better equated to the antics of Don
Quixote chasing after imagined dangers and enemies. Go home errant Don and tend
to your own home and family and leave the fair maiden (who neither knows you nor
needs your saving) to live her life in peace and quiet.
realitycheck | 2:13 p.m. July 18, 2008
whatever, gramps. Obviously you're old and tired and from a different
century. That's why you think this is all ok. Has nothiong to do with the
children - has to do with you growing up when all this was acceptable.
Try the 21st century - you may like it. (or not)
Try the 21st century - you may like it. (or not)
From the Creek | 9:50 p.m. July 19, 2008
Looks like I missed out on a juicy discussion. I hope you're still
following this thread, RC. You are quite entertaining.
"well it's about time, 2:19pm girl. outstanding. Looks like you've been taking my advice. Now if you can get the rest of your crew to do the same, then things will be much better for the children."
=======================
ROFL!!! We don't need any of your "advice." This is nothing uncommon at all. I think you'd be mighty hard pressed to find one child in Colorado City/Hildale who hasn't been shopping at Wal-Mart & around St. George with their mother.
Trust me, our children know almost every detail possible about this Texas raid. They've even watched(*GASP*) many of the news interviews. Why on earth would we not let them know what's going on with our brothers & sisters in Texas?
Would it confuse you even more if I told you my 7th grade science teacher (FLDS) gave each of his students a piece of a dinosaur bone? It was Michael Moore that taught man didn't land on the moon.
"well it's about time, 2:19pm girl. outstanding. Looks like you've been taking my advice. Now if you can get the rest of your crew to do the same, then things will be much better for the children."
=======================
ROFL!!! We don't need any of your "advice." This is nothing uncommon at all. I think you'd be mighty hard pressed to find one child in Colorado City/Hildale who hasn't been shopping at Wal-Mart & around St. George with their mother.
Trust me, our children know almost every detail possible about this Texas raid. They've even watched(*GASP*) many of the news interviews. Why on earth would we not let them know what's going on with our brothers & sisters in Texas?
Would it confuse you even more if I told you my 7th grade science teacher (FLDS) gave each of his students a piece of a dinosaur bone? It was Michael Moore that taught man didn't land on the moon.
Grandpa Phil | 7:06 a.m. July 21, 2008
Darn RC, busted again by another FLDS poster. Perhaps I missed something
between the lines but, was "From the Creek" another of the FLDS that
"admitted" your "facts"? There goes Don Quixote charging
another windmill!!!!!!!!
And, by the way, I found little "progress" made in the 21st Century over the way things were done in the 20th. The world has taken more than a few steps backward in the manner in which they raise children to be good people on the inside. Oh, the children these days are far "better off" materialistically than they were in the 20th Century and the quantity of information they have access to is amazing; however, the QUALITY of that information is far from amazing and society is paying a dear price for its seeming progress. Yes, I MISS the good ole days when children were taught work ethics and strength of character. Today, children are given condoms in school and taught how to use them. They listen to lurid lyrics on loud Rap music and walk around with their pants hanging down below their knees. RC frets because the FLDS kids aren't "free" to experience these things. parents have a responsibility to PROTECT.
And, by the way, I found little "progress" made in the 21st Century over the way things were done in the 20th. The world has taken more than a few steps backward in the manner in which they raise children to be good people on the inside. Oh, the children these days are far "better off" materialistically than they were in the 20th Century and the quantity of information they have access to is amazing; however, the QUALITY of that information is far from amazing and society is paying a dear price for its seeming progress. Yes, I MISS the good ole days when children were taught work ethics and strength of character. Today, children are given condoms in school and taught how to use them. They listen to lurid lyrics on loud Rap music and walk around with their pants hanging down below their knees. RC frets because the FLDS kids aren't "free" to experience these things. parents have a responsibility to PROTECT.
realitycheck | 12:32 p.m. July 21, 2008
well, this thread is getting old, just like gramps. And if you believe
everything From the Creek is telling you, then you're way more gullible
than I gave you credit for.
Not sure why you continually talk about the bad things in society as if all society is bad, yet ignore the bad things in the FLDS as if everything was fine there. Must be a matter of convenience.
You can ignore it, or you can champion for the children. Take your pick. And if parents have a responsibility to protect, why does the FLDS keep telling their children whom to marry, especially to older men? Or is that a wives tale too? And why do you find that acceptable? Nice blinders, gramps.
Not sure why you continually talk about the bad things in society as if all society is bad, yet ignore the bad things in the FLDS as if everything was fine there. Must be a matter of convenience.
You can ignore it, or you can champion for the children. Take your pick. And if parents have a responsibility to protect, why does the FLDS keep telling their children whom to marry, especially to older men? Or is that a wives tale too? And why do you find that acceptable? Nice blinders, gramps.
Grandpa Phil | 2:25 p.m. July 21, 2008
Blinders have a two-fold purpose - to keep extraneous information out and to
keep the wearer focused on the task at hand. I have no problem with blinders.
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They have the right to teach their kid as they please.......many do go to college......just ask Carolyn.
Go to east Texas sometime and see what is taught in the religious schools.........even the tele tubbies are evil........and don't even bring up the dastardly devil inspired topic of evolution.
Raise your own children.........not theirs.