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U.S. Senate committee to investigate FLDS
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Rico | 3:54 a.m. July 15, 2008
The fact that Harry Reid is spearheading this doesn't look fishy at all.
I'll just betcha you are going to hear more about the mainstream
church's involvement in this before the day is done.
awesomeron | 4:32 a.m. July 15, 2008
Good!!!
Comments continue below
Warrin' Jeffrey | 6:10 a.m. July 15, 2008
The United States Congress is taking time to investigate child-rape, and I am
glad my taxes are going to support this.
It is being spearheaded by an LDS senator who is sick and tired of the federal government's giving its tacit approval to child-rape by doing nothing to stop FLDS child-rapists.
This investigation is being led by a Democrat, since no Republican U.S. senators have shown any courage to deal with this issue.
Isn't THAT interesting?
Bravo Mr. Reid!
It is being spearheaded by an LDS senator who is sick and tired of the federal government's giving its tacit approval to child-rape by doing nothing to stop FLDS child-rapists.
This investigation is being led by a Democrat, since no Republican U.S. senators have shown any courage to deal with this issue.
Isn't THAT interesting?
Bravo Mr. Reid!
anom | 6:31 a.m. July 15, 2008
The only thing here that is interesting is that the corrupt practices of
apostasy might be revealed.
Cats | 6:29 a.m. July 15, 2008
I have no doubt there will be a lot of blogs on here from FLDS crying about how
they are being persecuted.
I have no sympathy with the FLDS leadership or the way they have oppressed and misguided these poor people for many years. However, I hope the hearings are fair and even handed. We only have to look at history to see how unfairly the LDS Church was treated in the 19th Century. They even sent the U.S. Army after us. I hope Senator Reid will make sure the hearings are conducted fairly and professionally. I think there is great danger here.
However, I have to say that the FLDS have no one to blame but themselves for what has happened. If you flaunt the law, abuse women, viciate freedom of choice and just generally act like a bunch of goons, you can expect that it will eventually catch up with you.
Warren Jeffs has publicly declared that he is not a prophet, he never was a prophet and he is one of the most wicked men of this dispensation. For the first time, probably in his life, he is telling the TRUTH.
I have no sympathy with the FLDS leadership or the way they have oppressed and misguided these poor people for many years. However, I hope the hearings are fair and even handed. We only have to look at history to see how unfairly the LDS Church was treated in the 19th Century. They even sent the U.S. Army after us. I hope Senator Reid will make sure the hearings are conducted fairly and professionally. I think there is great danger here.
However, I have to say that the FLDS have no one to blame but themselves for what has happened. If you flaunt the law, abuse women, viciate freedom of choice and just generally act like a bunch of goons, you can expect that it will eventually catch up with you.
Warren Jeffs has publicly declared that he is not a prophet, he never was a prophet and he is one of the most wicked men of this dispensation. For the first time, probably in his life, he is telling the TRUTH.
Anonymous | 7:05 a.m. July 15, 2008
I'd love to see the senate set up in the polygamist communities for a few
days. Bring the media. Get chased around by the goon squad in the vehicles with
the tinted windows. And talk to the prisoners there. It's time to close
down the FLDS prisons.
Is there anything ... | 7:29 a.m. July 15, 2008
Congress won't stick it's nose in? Baseball, the NFL, polygamy ....
Wouldn't it be nice if they'd focus on the big ticket items --
immigration, national security, energy sources? Good grief.
Thomas | 7:49 a.m. July 15, 2008
Some of the commentators failed to notice that there is very little evidence of
child rape. You are spreading the same generalized charges with little evidence
to back it up. Forget any attempt to be fair. Bigots like Senator Reid are never
fair.
Cosmo | 8:26 a.m. July 15, 2008
Fuel prices are 5.00+ per gallon, the financial system is falling apart, the
auto industry is all
but dead, and the same people that support the Islamic Terrorists, are buying up America. So what does our great Senate Leader, Harry Reid do, well have a public "Polygamy Dog and Pony Show". Now that
will address the real issues of the day. Oh and by the way, from the same people that brought us, My two Mommies, and My two Daddies. That will distract the "American Morons" again.
but dead, and the same people that support the Islamic Terrorists, are buying up America. So what does our great Senate Leader, Harry Reid do, well have a public "Polygamy Dog and Pony Show". Now that
will address the real issues of the day. Oh and by the way, from the same people that brought us, My two Mommies, and My two Daddies. That will distract the "American Morons" again.
VegasBaby | 8:27 a.m. July 15, 2008
I predicted months ago that there would be hearings. Good job, Harry!
Here we go again | 8:30 a.m. July 15, 2008
Apparently, no one has learned anything from Short Creek or the recent YFZ Ranch
raid. Lurid tales of abuse from former FLDS members who have personal or
financial axes to grind are not the best sources of information to base criminal
investigations on.
But polygamists are a good, all-purpose whipping boy for corrupt politicians who wish to deflect the public's attention from Congress' horrendous performance on issues such as oil prices and mortgage lenders.
So enjoy your circus, citizens. The FLDS are about to be thrown to the lions for your entertainment.
But polygamists are a good, all-purpose whipping boy for corrupt politicians who wish to deflect the public's attention from Congress' horrendous performance on issues such as oil prices and mortgage lenders.
So enjoy your circus, citizens. The FLDS are about to be thrown to the lions for your entertainment.
tobiasrex | 8:43 a.m. July 15, 2008
Reed and Hatch, should the committee move ahead and investigate, need to make
sure all America knows they belong to the Mormon church, which, obviously has a
huge interest in this. Still their pursuit won't be impartial.
Cats | 8:57 a.m. July 15, 2008
To Cosmo: You point is? Since we have other problems we should just ignore the
possibility of child rape? How about welfare fraud? What about false
imprisonment of women and children that have no hope to leave this community?
These are real issues that need to be addressed. Many of these people need help and have no chance to get it unless government finally steps in and tries to do something to protect them.
I'm not a supporter of Harry Reid, but I have no doubt he is sincere. The leadership of the FLDS are dictatorial men who need to be stopped from doing any more evil to their people.
There really is a Taliban in America and it is the FLDS.
These are real issues that need to be addressed. Many of these people need help and have no chance to get it unless government finally steps in and tries to do something to protect them.
I'm not a supporter of Harry Reid, but I have no doubt he is sincere. The leadership of the FLDS are dictatorial men who need to be stopped from doing any more evil to their people.
There really is a Taliban in America and it is the FLDS.
CITIZEN | 9:00 a.m. July 15, 2008
Runaway gas prices,runaway food costs,mortgage forclosures of epedimic
proportions,crooked lobbyist bribing crooked politicians,massive,massive job
loses never too return,companies folding up by the thousands and now our
dutifull congress deems it necessary too investigate someones religion. i was
under the impression that the state of Texas was doing that.Were there any
federal laws violated by F.L.D.S IN Texas too make it necessary for the
U.S.congress to investigate at the cost of millions of dollars of taxpayers
money????
sunnykc | 9:08 a.m. July 15, 2008
It is of no consequence that the senators interested in this committee are LDS.
It is rather the failing of other representatives that they did not initiate an
investigation into this unhealthy, abusive cult. Stop feeling sorry for these
pathetic people and pointing fingers at the LDS politicians. Congress throws
money away on far less worthy endeavors!
The Secret | 9:47 a.m. July 15, 2008
"make sure all America knows they belong to the Mormon church"
sssshhh...
that's a carefully guarded secret, like Sen. Kennedy being a Catholic or Sen. Lieberman being a Jew.
No senator who has a religious preference should ever be allowed to conduct hearings into possible crimes involving members of another religion.
sssshhh...
that's a carefully guarded secret, like Sen. Kennedy being a Catholic or Sen. Lieberman being a Jew.
No senator who has a religious preference should ever be allowed to conduct hearings into possible crimes involving members of another religion.
zxcvbnm | 9:46 a.m. July 15, 2008
The Senate will now be "educated" by the same disgruntled bunch of ex-members and "experts" that "educated" Doran" and the Texas goon squads.
I wonder how much it will cost to feed and house the group of gossip mongers and book peddlers.
When will the Senate investigate the State of Texas and its' orchestrated effort to destroy a church.
Parker hit the nail on the head.....let the FLDS have their chance to speak to the Senate. We have already heard from the ex-flds chicken littles.......they have sold their books, had their time on the talk shows, and have spewed their twisted tales. Texas has wasted their efforts with false allegations and their own courts have put a stop to the kidnapping.
Investigate Texas, Swinton, Jessop........and the rest of the goons responsible for this mess.
rita | 10:09 a.m. July 15, 2008
I think some of you are on the wrong page. This is what is being
investigated.
Reid hopes to show the FLDS are an organized crime syndicate that has engaged in bribery, extortion, fraud, embezzlement, witness tampering, labor violations, etc.
He wants the Department of Justice to go after the FLDS for such crimes as part of a RICO investigation.
Reid hopes to show the FLDS are an organized crime syndicate that has engaged in bribery, extortion, fraud, embezzlement, witness tampering, labor violations, etc.
He wants the Department of Justice to go after the FLDS for such crimes as part of a RICO investigation.
realitycheck | 10:28 a.m. July 15, 2008
The FLDS brought this on themselves by isolating themselves from society, and
repressing their followers. When you stifle the freedoms of thousands, and
over-sermonize to the point of mind control, you are asking for intervention.
Practice your religion. Marry as many women as you want (as long as they are of age and willing partners). NO ONE CARES. But when you hide your women and children from the world, thereby removing any hope for a future of their choosing - YOU ARE ASKING FOR TROUBLE.
No longer will we stand by and watch you isolate and over-sermonize your followers to the point that they are afraid of the world and have no future. You have full control over their lives and that is abuse and a violation of their civil rights.
Why do you feel the need to control your followers to such a degree that they become sheep? What are you so afraid of?
And to zxcvbnm - the FLDS is not a church nor a religion. It is a cult that controls it's populace through fear and intimidation. If it were a church, it would open it's doors to the world, instead of hiding from the world.
Practice your religion. Marry as many women as you want (as long as they are of age and willing partners). NO ONE CARES. But when you hide your women and children from the world, thereby removing any hope for a future of their choosing - YOU ARE ASKING FOR TROUBLE.
No longer will we stand by and watch you isolate and over-sermonize your followers to the point that they are afraid of the world and have no future. You have full control over their lives and that is abuse and a violation of their civil rights.
Why do you feel the need to control your followers to such a degree that they become sheep? What are you so afraid of?
And to zxcvbnm - the FLDS is not a church nor a religion. It is a cult that controls it's populace through fear and intimidation. If it were a church, it would open it's doors to the world, instead of hiding from the world.
Anonymous | 10:36 a.m. July 15, 2008
Re: Cats
Yes, the federal government should ignore the issue.
That is what states are for and they are trying their hand at fixing it.
Reid needs to go back to his desk and get some work done at the national level.
Some of you guys are so obsessed with the FLDS that you think the whole nation should grind to a halt to go after your favorite enemy. Here is a clue for you - 99.9% of the population of this country does not care. They want solutions to things like gas prices and financial market contractions. Things that affect more than 20k of the 300 million people in this country. We all know you have an axe to grind. We just ask that you get some freakin' perspective.
Yes, the federal government should ignore the issue.
That is what states are for and they are trying their hand at fixing it.
Reid needs to go back to his desk and get some work done at the national level.
Some of you guys are so obsessed with the FLDS that you think the whole nation should grind to a halt to go after your favorite enemy. Here is a clue for you - 99.9% of the population of this country does not care. They want solutions to things like gas prices and financial market contractions. Things that affect more than 20k of the 300 million people in this country. We all know you have an axe to grind. We just ask that you get some freakin' perspective.
Karl | 10:46 a.m. July 15, 2008
This is no Short Creek raid. Nope, no way.
The law is getting them where it counts. Right in the wallet.
They are being very smart about things this time!
The rapists, and welfare fraud parasite's, can't function without public money.
Go get them Reid! It been way to long now.
The law is getting them where it counts. Right in the wallet.
They are being very smart about things this time!
The rapists, and welfare fraud parasite's, can't function without public money.
Go get them Reid! It been way to long now.
zxcvbnm | 11:30 a.m. July 15, 2008
well RC....glad to see that you are now an expert on the definition of the word church.
And Karl..........the FLDS operate a cheese plant, a concrete factory, construction businesses and dozens of other enterprizes in many states.
Lets go after the major corporations that milk this government for tax breaks and subsidies before we go after children that are fed with food stamps........remember big guy....it's all about the children.
The allegations against the FLDS are overblown gossip perpetuated by fearmongers.....investigate the gossip peddlers.
Re: Cat & Karl | 11:36 a.m. July 15, 2008
You are so bitter, whats up take advantage of the opportunity and write a book.
Oh you don't have a story to tell? Then SHUT UP. All you are doing is
saying the same propaganda that started the raid and still no proof of any of
it. Get a clue maybe there is all the abuse and fraud you think there is. I
totally agree don't ignore child abuse, but don't make it up either.
Karl | 11:48 a.m. July 15, 2008
"The allegations against the FLDS are overblown gossip perpetuated by
fearmongers"
"It's all about the children"
Come on man, are you serious? Lets see, wasen't it Danny Kingston who stated in court that he had fifty some-odd kids, and coulden't ever name them there were so many? His wife was holed up in a coal shack someplace in murry waiting for the welfare checks to feed them?
Beating down a young teen daughter because she woulden't marry her creepy old uncle?
On and on. Those children must have such messed up personalities its would take fifty years of therapy to make a dent into the destruction perpitrated by these people!
Yes, its all about the children isn't it?
"It's all about the children"
Come on man, are you serious? Lets see, wasen't it Danny Kingston who stated in court that he had fifty some-odd kids, and coulden't ever name them there were so many? His wife was holed up in a coal shack someplace in murry waiting for the welfare checks to feed them?
Beating down a young teen daughter because she woulden't marry her creepy old uncle?
On and on. Those children must have such messed up personalities its would take fifty years of therapy to make a dent into the destruction perpitrated by these people!
Yes, its all about the children isn't it?
realitycheck | 12:37 p.m. July 15, 2008
I'm amazed that the FLDS still hasn't figured out that the entire
country wants to see them disbanned and the children freed. You would think
that would be an incentive to make changes so everyone gets off their case. But
instead here they are, trying to defend their practices.
Oh well - they'll figure it out eventually. After all, they'll have to once the real pressure is applied. I just hope they don't listen to their "prophet" and drink some spiked kool-aid.
I'm waiting for the day when I see a young lady (in prairie dress and all) standing in line to apply at a good university. Then I'll figure the doors have been opened. Until then, it's just a bunch of drones being herded by (and married to) their uncles.
The sad part is they don't even understand that what they are doing to their children is WRONG...
Oh well - they'll figure it out eventually. After all, they'll have to once the real pressure is applied. I just hope they don't listen to their "prophet" and drink some spiked kool-aid.
I'm waiting for the day when I see a young lady (in prairie dress and all) standing in line to apply at a good university. Then I'll figure the doors have been opened. Until then, it's just a bunch of drones being herded by (and married to) their uncles.
The sad part is they don't even understand that what they are doing to their children is WRONG...
re - zxcvbnm 11:30am | 12:49 p.m. July 15, 2008
yes - they operate a cheese plant, a concrete factory, construction businesses,
and dozens of other enterprises in many states. Glad you noticed.
Did you happen to notice that they use unpaid children extensively in their construction businesses to undermine legitimate construction companies and reduce jobs for law-abiding citizens? or that they pay less than minimum wage to their factory workers? Or that you must be a member of the church to work at these places (fyi - that's illegal discrimination)? Or that the women workers do not get paid - the checks are made out to the husbands?
No - you probably missed that part. And I'm sure you missed the "overblown gossip" of how women are second-class citizens (not unlike the Taliban) or how children spend 1 hour learning real things and 10 hours learning religion rather than the other way around. So they know that there were no dinasaurs (LOL) but they can't do basic algebra...
great place - let's throw them some more food stamps so they can have more little drones to work the construction sites and sewing mills with a 6th grade education...
Did you happen to notice that they use unpaid children extensively in their construction businesses to undermine legitimate construction companies and reduce jobs for law-abiding citizens? or that they pay less than minimum wage to their factory workers? Or that you must be a member of the church to work at these places (fyi - that's illegal discrimination)? Or that the women workers do not get paid - the checks are made out to the husbands?
No - you probably missed that part. And I'm sure you missed the "overblown gossip" of how women are second-class citizens (not unlike the Taliban) or how children spend 1 hour learning real things and 10 hours learning religion rather than the other way around. So they know that there were no dinasaurs (LOL) but they can't do basic algebra...
great place - let's throw them some more food stamps so they can have more little drones to work the construction sites and sewing mills with a 6th grade education...
To realitycheck | 1:22 p.m. July 15, 2008
You are SOOOO misinformed, along with the majority of the posters here. You have
absalutely NO IDEA of what it TRULY is like in my lifestyle. All you want to
beleive are the lies!
I am a women, a very FREE one at that. I have much more than a highschool education, and I make my own choices! I don't have ANYONE telling me I'm going to go to hell if I don't do what they say.
I have been happily married for ten years, and I have, nope, not ten children, only two. You can beleive what you want, but I have been here and I know what you are listening to are lies! You don't go to someones worst enemies to find the truth about them!
I am a women, a very FREE one at that. I have much more than a highschool education, and I make my own choices! I don't have ANYONE telling me I'm going to go to hell if I don't do what they say.
I have been happily married for ten years, and I have, nope, not ten children, only two. You can beleive what you want, but I have been here and I know what you are listening to are lies! You don't go to someones worst enemies to find the truth about them!
StopSlavery | 1:36 p.m. July 15, 2008
I'm more than happy to have my tax dollars spent upholding the XIIth
Amendment to the US Constitution. FLDS=Slavery.
Anonymous 2 | 1:55 p.m. July 15, 2008
I thought we still lived in a free country where we could worship how and when
we pleased. That is exactly what the FLDS are doing. They are worshipping as
they please. It is not for us to judge them. Let him who is without sin cast
the first stone. God will Judge them. We don't need to.
We also don't need to spend tax dollars on a big investigation into how they live either. Our Senate should be more concerned about the high gas prices and the cost of groceries as well as the lack of employment opportunities.
Reid makes me ashamed of being a Democrat. This is a witch hunt.
I am LDS and I know that I sure wouldn't want someone to do to me what has been done to the FLDS. Again, it is not our place to judge.
We also don't need to spend tax dollars on a big investigation into how they live either. Our Senate should be more concerned about the high gas prices and the cost of groceries as well as the lack of employment opportunities.
Reid makes me ashamed of being a Democrat. This is a witch hunt.
I am LDS and I know that I sure wouldn't want someone to do to me what has been done to the FLDS. Again, it is not our place to judge.
anonymous 2 | 2:04 p.m. July 15, 2008
I thought we still lived in a free country and were free to believe and worship
as we pleased. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. It is not our
place to judge the FLDS anymore than it is our place to judge the LDS or the
Catholics. Judge will judge us all and especially those of us that are judging
the FLDS. Remember Judge not Least ye be Judged.
If the government can do this to the FLDS what's to stop them from doing it to any other church and/or organization.
Our Senate needs to worry more about the high gas and grocery prices. Along with our nations security. Reid is on a witch hunt. He needs to get off his high horse and remember its not all about him.
If the government can do this to the FLDS what's to stop them from doing it to any other church and/or organization.
Our Senate needs to worry more about the high gas and grocery prices. Along with our nations security. Reid is on a witch hunt. He needs to get off his high horse and remember its not all about him.
Not about religion | 3:00 p.m. July 15, 2008
As a previous blogger mentioned, the senate investigation is focused on specific
types of crimes alleged to have been committed by the FLDS community that has
acted as an organized crime syndicate engaged in bribery, extortion, fraud,
embezzlement, witness tampering, labor violations, etc.
No mention of polygamy, child abuse, forced marriage, or any other "religious belief."
No mention of polygamy, child abuse, forced marriage, or any other "religious belief."
Re: StopSlavery | 3:05 p.m. July 15, 2008
It was the XIIIth amendment that outlawed slavery, not the XIIth.
But it's not surprising those who sympathize with the anti-FLDS lynch mob would be weak on details and long on hyperbole.
After what happened in Texas, it's a wonder anyone listens to Flora Jessop, et al.
But it's not surprising those who sympathize with the anti-FLDS lynch mob would be weak on details and long on hyperbole.
After what happened in Texas, it's a wonder anyone listens to Flora Jessop, et al.
commonsense | 3:18 p.m. July 15, 2008
Its about TIME!!!
CiCi | 3:54 p.m. July 15, 2008
It's about time something is investigated that is outside of the
"religious" belief aurgument.
It's been ignored far too long. The abuse of the system, and human rights under the religous protection statements makes me ill!
It's been ignored far too long. The abuse of the system, and human rights under the religous protection statements makes me ill!
Dog and Pony show | 4:06 p.m. July 15, 2008
Yes, another Dog and Pony show to parade in front of the American Public. Trying
to make the public temporally forget the HUGE stinking mess, the country is in.
With one bank after another either failing or about to. Freddie Mac and Fannie
May have for all intents and purposes have failed. It only the FED and the
Treasury pouring millions of tax dollars down the rat hole to TRY and keep them
a float.
If the FLDS have committed any crimes let the local authorities handle it, at least thats how it suppose to work. The Federal Government has no true constitutional authority to become involved. Its only this Fascist Police State we've become that would Federalize all crimes.
If the FLDS have committed any crimes let the local authorities handle it, at least thats how it suppose to work. The Federal Government has no true constitutional authority to become involved. Its only this Fascist Police State we've become that would Federalize all crimes.
Grandpa Phil | 7:12 a.m. July 16, 2008
Let's see.... Texas wasted $14 million dollars of Texas' taxpayers
money; let's see how much the rest of us have to pay for Congress to waste
their time and our money on another wild goose chase.
All of these maniacal hate-monger allegations of child sex abuse and "doing it for the children and poor mothers" makes me sick. When these allegations are used in the same sentence with the term "cult", it becomes obvious where the real thrust of the allegations are directed. Hopefully, the nation is not also RUN by bigots so these people can get a fair hearing in a REAL court and not by the bunch of bigots above.
All of these maniacal hate-monger allegations of child sex abuse and "doing it for the children and poor mothers" makes me sick. When these allegations are used in the same sentence with the term "cult", it becomes obvious where the real thrust of the allegations are directed. Hopefully, the nation is not also RUN by bigots so these people can get a fair hearing in a REAL court and not by the bunch of bigots above.
Grandpa Phil | 7:16 a.m. July 16, 2008
And RC, the last time the FLDS "opened their doors", the Texas
authorities used those doors to escort tall of their children to the Baptist
buses. If I were them, I would never open them again.
I think, "to realitycheck" said it best but I doubt RC will listen. His maniacal rantings get worse by the day. I am beginning to think he has a more vested interest in this than he lets on.
I think, "to realitycheck" said it best but I doubt RC will listen. His maniacal rantings get worse by the day. I am beginning to think he has a more vested interest in this than he lets on.
zxcvbnm | 7:56 a.m. July 16, 2008
Use of illegal labor to undercut wages of other companies employing
citizens.......wow. Sounds like the Mexican Nationals working construction in
this country.
A father can "employ" a son in this country to teach him the family business.....farmers do it all the time. I'm sure the sons aren't charged rent in the family home. Besides...undercutting wages is exactly how the construction industry justifys employeeing non citizens.
FLDS women have commented on this blog concerning their life and work status......keep listening to Flora and the rest of the gossip mongers and you will continue to waste taxpayer money.
Go after the corporate tax cheats with your RICO investigation and you may find some real tax cheats and labor exploiters.
A father can "employ" a son in this country to teach him the family business.....farmers do it all the time. I'm sure the sons aren't charged rent in the family home. Besides...undercutting wages is exactly how the construction industry justifys employeeing non citizens.
FLDS women have commented on this blog concerning their life and work status......keep listening to Flora and the rest of the gossip mongers and you will continue to waste taxpayer money.
Go after the corporate tax cheats with your RICO investigation and you may find some real tax cheats and labor exploiters.
realitycheck | 11:46 a.m. July 16, 2008
We can butt heads all day long and it won't change the perception of the
citizens of this country. I don't know how many times I have to say it,
since you all seem to not hear me... Stop hiding your children from the world,
come out of the shadows, and we will leave you alone!!
What don't you understand? You hide your people and we think you are doing something bad. So stop hiding and we will leave you alone.
Jeez - I know you all are stubborn, but you're cutting off your nose despite your face. That's just ignorant. You really think you can win here?
I suggest you think about re-integrating yourselves into society...
And Grandpa Phil - you can rant and rave all you want, and talk about hate-mongering and Texas and everything else. Won't change a thing and you know it. If you really cared about these people, you would be giving them the same advice I have been. Stop hiding your children - it fuels our imagination (in a negative way) and stop breaking laws. Come back into society and you'll stop being under the microscope. What don't you get?
What don't you understand? You hide your people and we think you are doing something bad. So stop hiding and we will leave you alone.
Jeez - I know you all are stubborn, but you're cutting off your nose despite your face. That's just ignorant. You really think you can win here?
I suggest you think about re-integrating yourselves into society...
And Grandpa Phil - you can rant and rave all you want, and talk about hate-mongering and Texas and everything else. Won't change a thing and you know it. If you really cared about these people, you would be giving them the same advice I have been. Stop hiding your children - it fuels our imagination (in a negative way) and stop breaking laws. Come back into society and you'll stop being under the microscope. What don't you get?
re - zxcvbnm 7:56am | 12:18 p.m. July 16, 2008
when 12 yr olds are actually building entire structures and not getting paid,
that's not OJT - that's child labor and illegal.
and just because other businesses employ illegal workers doesn't make it ok for the FLDS to break the law. Two wrongs don't make a right. (Ever heard that before?)
Lastly, the women commenters you talk about (assuming they are in fact women) are so brainwashed that they will tell you whatever their husbands tell them to. They have no say and no standing in the FLDS community. They exist to make and raise babies - and that is their entire purpose in life. Sad, but true.
and just because other businesses employ illegal workers doesn't make it ok for the FLDS to break the law. Two wrongs don't make a right. (Ever heard that before?)
Lastly, the women commenters you talk about (assuming they are in fact women) are so brainwashed that they will tell you whatever their husbands tell them to. They have no say and no standing in the FLDS community. They exist to make and raise babies - and that is their entire purpose in life. Sad, but true.
realiycheck | 12:23 p.m. July 16, 2008
to "To realitycheck" 1:22pm
You hide from the world and keep your children isolated. You preach more hours than you teach (per your own fldschildren website). You fill their heads with nonsense about fake dinosaurs, no moon landing, and how the girls' goal in life is to have a lot of babies. If you had a library, it would have hardly any books because most regular books are banned. Your children will grow up stupid and iggnorant.
You are a bad parent and I would HATE to be your child.
You hide from the world and keep your children isolated. You preach more hours than you teach (per your own fldschildren website). You fill their heads with nonsense about fake dinosaurs, no moon landing, and how the girls' goal in life is to have a lot of babies. If you had a library, it would have hardly any books because most regular books are banned. Your children will grow up stupid and iggnorant.
You are a bad parent and I would HATE to be your child.
zxcvbnm | 12:52 p.m. July 16, 2008
I guess we can now add brainwashed to the litany of anti flds buzz words,,,,,escape, slaves, lost boys, dead babies, slave labor, cult........
Investigate the gossip mongers, investigate Swinton, investigate Doran, investigate Malonis.....I'm sure we can add more to the list.
So now we have 12 year old construction workers.......way to go. You aught to be in this part of texas. Today I saw an eight year old driving a tractor. Call the Feds.....the boy will laugh all the way to the hay field.
To realitycheck | 2:05 p.m. July 16, 2008
I am getting SOOO sick of asking you if you are Elissa Wall. Can you please
answer? You sound so much like her, in the way that you are SOOO SURE you know
exactly how the FLDS are.
Sorry to say, you are badly misinformed! Either that, or your imagination has gotten away with you again!
How could you say all those things about them unless you KNEW it was true? Where's all your evidence? You couldn't have possibly SEEN a mother tell her daughter that the only goal in life was to have lots of babies. Did you SEE a husband telling his wives to only say whatever he tells them to say. Do you KNOW for a fact, the children only get a 6th grade education? Did you SEE the 12 year olds building houses? Have you actually SEEN me hide my children from the world? Have you SEEN my library?
Or did you HEAR it, Just wondering?
Sorry to say, you are badly misinformed! Either that, or your imagination has gotten away with you again!
How could you say all those things about them unless you KNEW it was true? Where's all your evidence? You couldn't have possibly SEEN a mother tell her daughter that the only goal in life was to have lots of babies. Did you SEE a husband telling his wives to only say whatever he tells them to say. Do you KNOW for a fact, the children only get a 6th grade education? Did you SEE the 12 year olds building houses? Have you actually SEEN me hide my children from the world? Have you SEEN my library?
Or did you HEAR it, Just wondering?
Grandpa Phiil | 2:39 p.m. July 16, 2008
THANK YOU RC for finally acknowledging that all of your opinions and rantings
are coming from your imagination. They CERTAINLY have no basis in fact. And,
talk about ignorant; the proper phrase is "cut off your nose to spite your
face" not "cut off your nose despite your face". That phrase
didn't even make sense which, by the way, falls right in line with the rest
of your writing.
"Come out of the shadows and we will leave you alone" is a crock and you know it. They are not in the shadows; that is where people like you work. Just because they do not chose to parade their lives for you and everyone else does not mean they are hiding. Everyone values their privacy and, so far, the FLDS have not been honestly accused of any wrong-doing. Warren Jeffs has been convicted of abetting in wrong-doing, but that does not translate over to make them all guilty of anything. And, even if they did "come out of the (so-called) shadows" you and the rest WOULD NOT leave them alone. You would find something else to whine about. If you didn't have something to complain about, you'd complain about that.
"Come out of the shadows and we will leave you alone" is a crock and you know it. They are not in the shadows; that is where people like you work. Just because they do not chose to parade their lives for you and everyone else does not mean they are hiding. Everyone values their privacy and, so far, the FLDS have not been honestly accused of any wrong-doing. Warren Jeffs has been convicted of abetting in wrong-doing, but that does not translate over to make them all guilty of anything. And, even if they did "come out of the (so-called) shadows" you and the rest WOULD NOT leave them alone. You would find something else to whine about. If you didn't have something to complain about, you'd complain about that.
Grandpa Phil | 2:48 p.m. July 16, 2008
Uhm, "to realitycheck", RC said his negative imagination is fueled by
you guys keeping your kids in the dark. I know that is laughable. But, at
least RC recognizes that it is his own negative imagination spawning all of his
rhetorical nonsense. What he doesn't "KNOW," he imagines as
true. It is true for him and that is all that matters to him. You can't
reason with a person's imagination. No amount of facts will sway him from
his course (or his final destination).
zxcvbnm | 3:34 p.m. July 16, 2008
The shadow knows...........We have listened to the talk of those accusing the FLDS for several months......and almost every allegation has proven false.
We saw the women on TV and everyone got a charge out of their unibrow rep. We have seen their dress, lifestyle, and cell phones. We have heard their representatives and other members complain about their treatment.......in a relatively forgiving tone.
We have seen the women answer hate and snickering with a commercial dress making enterprise and explanations of their beliefs as well as educational achievements.
They aren't Connie Chung or Walter Cronkite, fully trained to present a made for TV commentary but they are as "out of he shadows" as they choose to be.
They don't have to satisfy anyone but themselves. They don't have to explain themselves.
Tell ya what.......when the orthodox Jews that live in New York fully explain to everyone their beliefs as well as the education of their children, as well as the funny hats and beards then perhaps the FLDS can match their candor.
Whoops........Germany already tried that....guess we fought them for nothing.
realitycheck | 3:41 p.m. July 16, 2008
gramps - you never cease to crack me up. You think I am alone in my opinion.
You must be stuck on stupid.
These people don't "live among us". They hide in their own little world. It's not my imagination - I was giving them the benefit of the doubt that some of the things they have been accused of are untrue. But NOTHING I have said is untrue. It's all freely admitted to by FLDS.
They teach their children that:
there were no dinosaurs (from their own books)
there was no moon landing (from their own books)
society is evil (from published sermons)
they provide an 8th grade education that's really a 5th grade education if you include all the crap they teach (see above)
they spend more time teaching religion than teaching basic math, science, etc. (from their own website)
All of these things contribute to keeping the kids within the FLDS instead of giving them free will and a mind of their own.
What don't you get? Where's the untruth, Willy (I mean gramps)? How is any imagination involved?
there you go, ranting and raving, and criticising the wording rather than the meaning. Pretty weak.
These people don't "live among us". They hide in their own little world. It's not my imagination - I was giving them the benefit of the doubt that some of the things they have been accused of are untrue. But NOTHING I have said is untrue. It's all freely admitted to by FLDS.
They teach their children that:
there were no dinosaurs (from their own books)
there was no moon landing (from their own books)
society is evil (from published sermons)
they provide an 8th grade education that's really a 5th grade education if you include all the crap they teach (see above)
they spend more time teaching religion than teaching basic math, science, etc. (from their own website)
All of these things contribute to keeping the kids within the FLDS instead of giving them free will and a mind of their own.
What don't you get? Where's the untruth, Willy (I mean gramps)? How is any imagination involved?
there you go, ranting and raving, and criticising the wording rather than the meaning. Pretty weak.
realitycheck | 3:52 p.m. July 16, 2008
re - zxcvbnm
seems to me we see the Orthodox Jews walking the streets all the time. No one asks them about their beliefs because they are right there, living with us.
But if they all moved into a secluded ranch and built a guardtower, we would wonder why. If their "prophet" (who they follow WITHOUT QUESTION)was convicted for sex offenses, we would start having serious doubts about their ability to raise children properly. (Go ahead - use the priest analogy - we know it's coming - no one follows a priest without question.)
There are Orthodox Jews going to Harvard, Stanford, and Yale. Where are the FLDS? Still in 6th grade.
One thing doesn't mean anything. But when there's smoke coming from everywhere, then there's a pretty damn good chance that there's a fire. If you don't see that, then you have blinders on. Ignorance is bliss they say. You should hang with gramps.
seems to me we see the Orthodox Jews walking the streets all the time. No one asks them about their beliefs because they are right there, living with us.
But if they all moved into a secluded ranch and built a guardtower, we would wonder why. If their "prophet" (who they follow WITHOUT QUESTION)was convicted for sex offenses, we would start having serious doubts about their ability to raise children properly. (Go ahead - use the priest analogy - we know it's coming - no one follows a priest without question.)
There are Orthodox Jews going to Harvard, Stanford, and Yale. Where are the FLDS? Still in 6th grade.
One thing doesn't mean anything. But when there's smoke coming from everywhere, then there's a pretty damn good chance that there's a fire. If you don't see that, then you have blinders on. Ignorance is bliss they say. You should hang with gramps.
realitycheck | 4:23 p.m. July 16, 2008
not sure why you are using the word "complain", gramps. I certainly
am not complaining. I'm making observations that are unflattering for the
FLDS and they (you) don't like the implications. I have concerns for the
children but that's out of caring, not criticism.
You think we all want bad things to happen to the FLDS. You're wrong. Bad things are happening to them every day. We want it to stop. We care.
You want it to continue. What's that make you?
You think we all want bad things to happen to the FLDS. You're wrong. Bad things are happening to them every day. We want it to stop. We care.
You want it to continue. What's that make you?
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And this hunt is being spearheaded by an LDS Senator. Isn't that interesting? Who would have thought 100 years ago that the attack on polygamy would be coming from within the church?
And this hunt against the FLDS is also being led by a Democrat, a member of the party that claims to support the right to live whichever lifestyle a person wishes to live.
Isn't that interesting?