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Calendar-maker ousted by LDS
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Ricky P. | 9:42 a.m. July 14, 2008
The human body is a beautiful thing -- indeed, we're told it's a
temple, and many of us have pictures of temples in our homes. I see nothing
wrong with tastefully taking a picture of a temple and sharing it with others. I
looked at the 2008 calendar while visiting family in Utah (but didn't buy).
It's not gratuitous or scandalous. It's tastefully done. There is
nothing in the calendar worthy of excommunication or even church discipline.
There had to be something else to cause Hardy's exommunication. (BTW
It's stories like this that show how uptight some church members can get,
and make me appreciate not living behind the Wasatch Curtain. Lighten up folks!)
tr:Anonymous | 9:17 a.m | 9:44 a.m. July 14, 2008
"Hardy was just expressing his Constitutional Right to Freedom of
Expression and Freedom of Speach;"
Which is why what he did is at this point "constitutionally legal".
The church also has the constitutional right to "Freedom of Association". They exerciased their right.
Mr. Hardy pretty much provided all the information for this article. All the church did was confirm he was excommunicated.
They also mentionioned that excommunication is the first step in forgiveness, and finding his way back. If Mr. Hardy repents, this is all about forgiveness, and if he was doing other things right, he probably would not have been excommunicated.
Mr. Hardy said he was happy with the way things turned out. I'm happy for him because apparently he got his wish, but I would hope that someday he would choose the path to repentance and forginess.
To those of you quick to judge the Lord's decision on this, I am sure that the Lord and his chosen leaders are sad about this, but they have given him a path to repentance and forginess.
Forgiveness, repentance, and a way back into full-fellowship for his past five years of actions.
That is what most of thes posts are about.
Which is why what he did is at this point "constitutionally legal".
The church also has the constitutional right to "Freedom of Association". They exerciased their right.
Mr. Hardy pretty much provided all the information for this article. All the church did was confirm he was excommunicated.
They also mentionioned that excommunication is the first step in forgiveness, and finding his way back. If Mr. Hardy repents, this is all about forgiveness, and if he was doing other things right, he probably would not have been excommunicated.
Mr. Hardy said he was happy with the way things turned out. I'm happy for him because apparently he got his wish, but I would hope that someday he would choose the path to repentance and forginess.
To those of you quick to judge the Lord's decision on this, I am sure that the Lord and his chosen leaders are sad about this, but they have given him a path to repentance and forginess.
Forgiveness, repentance, and a way back into full-fellowship for his past five years of actions.
That is what most of thes posts are about.
Brad | 9:45 a.m. July 14, 2008
For one thing he was not "Ousted" he can still go to church if he
chooses. Excommunication is a part of the repentance process.
President Benson said "Pride is characterized by "What do I want out of life?" rather than by "What would God have me do with my life?"
Articles said they still had their name tags on. If they did it shows the name of the church there.
I hope we all pray for him. For I am not perfect and we should always be humble and follow the greatest of them all - Jesus Christ.
President Benson said "Pride is characterized by "What do I want out of life?" rather than by "What would God have me do with my life?"
Articles said they still had their name tags on. If they did it shows the name of the church there.
I hope we all pray for him. For I am not perfect and we should always be humble and follow the greatest of them all - Jesus Christ.
Comments continue below
Carmen | 9:44 a.m. July 14, 2008
RWW,
Neither Agency nor Freedom are Free. Agency is constrained by natural and temporal laws and by consequences - and Freedom has a price. Most people don't understand either of these principles. Agency, not Free Agency is God given.
Neither Agency nor Freedom are Free. Agency is constrained by natural and temporal laws and by consequences - and Freedom has a price. Most people don't understand either of these principles. Agency, not Free Agency is God given.
Anonymous | 9:44 a.m. July 14, 2008
The church did the right thing.
jwr | 9:45 a.m. July 14, 2008
What is the difference than all the books people write to make money of the LDS
membership. He took it outside of the box. Hardy found a golden egg and run
with it, good business I would say. What about all the pyramid schemes members
sucker into, oh that is different to rip your ward members off while
representing the LDS faith
Amber???? | 9:47 a.m. July 14, 2008
Amber!!! What are you thinking!! Yeah, Im sure the photos wont be against what
you are taught. But it is the principal behind it!!!! You know what is
right!!!!
oh yeah!!!! The church has always taught to be in the world not of the world. So what do mean by the church needs "the church would grow up and move into this century." Wow, Amber, I don't mean to be man or rude, but come on, don't throw the church or your beliefs under the bus so you can make a buck and show off your body!!!
oh yeah!!!! The church has always taught to be in the world not of the world. So what do mean by the church needs "the church would grow up and move into this century." Wow, Amber, I don't mean to be man or rude, but come on, don't throw the church or your beliefs under the bus so you can make a buck and show off your body!!!
Hey Put some Clothes | 9:54 a.m. July 14, 2008
on that half naked indian standing below Brigham Young on Main
downtown...it's all about money...all you have to do is go see how many
members try to keep up with each other...go to church then pretend to show their
prosperity over others...at least this guy had guts to do what he could
do..while many think they made heaven just because of a family name or who they
hang out with. I'll see ya ,when you get there! The good ones are few and
far between as the others have fooled themselfs in "all is well in
Zion" Self righteous ones for sure!
Matt | 9:55 a.m. July 14, 2008
Sell out! So are the the so-called missionaries that posed for him.
get over it...... | 9:56 a.m. July 14, 2008
JWR.....good one.............."ripping off ward
members"..classic.........
Chris Plummer | 9:58 a.m. July 14, 2008
Look at all the people pointing and judging... I love the being behind the ZION
curtain.
Sar Casam | 9:58 a.m. July 14, 2008
I'm glad to hear many people comparing this calender printer to great
artists and thinkers. He truley is bringing christianity forward into the
popular definition.
And if he's smart, and I'm sure he is since he's a great thinker, he will do more good by securing more $$$ for himself if he just skipped using representatives of Christ shirtless and just did a calendar of Jesus in various shirtless poses. And anyone organization that would complain is of course being cultlike, petty, and unforgiving.
And if he's smart, and I'm sure he is since he's a great thinker, he will do more good by securing more $$$ for himself if he just skipped using representatives of Christ shirtless and just did a calendar of Jesus in various shirtless poses. And anyone organization that would complain is of course being cultlike, petty, and unforgiving.
Free Agency | 10:17 a.m. July 14, 2008
Free agency is an important principle and doctrine of the LDS Church. We are
free to make any choices we want to; however, we are not free to choose the
consequences of those choices.
Alex | 10:15 a.m. July 14, 2008
jwr:
"What about all the pyramid schemes members sucker into, oh that is different to rip your ward members off while representing the LDS faith "
They should be called in as well if they have been involved in illegal activity. However, it is difficult to show fraud. That said, if someone in the church defrauds me, I'll make sure they get a disciplinary council. I will out them. That is probably why I haven't ever been defrauded in the Church.
It doesn't take half a brain to know that anybody trying to use his/her ecclesiastical position to scam people out of money are blatantly at odds with the LDS Church leadership warning against get-rich-quick schemes. There is no excuse for being involved in or being defrauded by someone in the church by these schemes. People have been fairly warned. Do it once: shame on you. Do it twice: shame on me.
"What about all the pyramid schemes members sucker into, oh that is different to rip your ward members off while representing the LDS faith "
They should be called in as well if they have been involved in illegal activity. However, it is difficult to show fraud. That said, if someone in the church defrauds me, I'll make sure they get a disciplinary council. I will out them. That is probably why I haven't ever been defrauded in the Church.
It doesn't take half a brain to know that anybody trying to use his/her ecclesiastical position to scam people out of money are blatantly at odds with the LDS Church leadership warning against get-rich-quick schemes. There is no excuse for being involved in or being defrauded by someone in the church by these schemes. People have been fairly warned. Do it once: shame on you. Do it twice: shame on me.
Repentance is GREAT | 10:25 a.m. July 14, 2008
Excommunication is sometimes the first step of a wonderful journey called
repentance. This allows the individual the opportunity to get his affairs in
order, while not adding to his load of sin and guilt. He now has the opportunity
to correct any mis-deads and come back into the fold, through re-baptism, having
ALL previous sins washed away. This can be an extremely spiritual experience for
him.
I hope him the best!
I hope he is able to grasp onto the 'Miracle of Forgiveness' that is available to him.
We do not know the extent of his sin's and it would not be right for us to speculate. We do know that the calendar was just one item of many that were discussed. This is a very private matter between this individual and the Lord, his Bishop, the Stake President and the High Council...only those involved in the hearing. Any other discussion, rumors, or speculation would not be becoming of members of the Church.
Though his sins be as scarlet, they can be white as snow, though they be red like crimson they can be as wool.
I hope him the best!
I hope he is able to grasp onto the 'Miracle of Forgiveness' that is available to him.
We do not know the extent of his sin's and it would not be right for us to speculate. We do know that the calendar was just one item of many that were discussed. This is a very private matter between this individual and the Lord, his Bishop, the Stake President and the High Council...only those involved in the hearing. Any other discussion, rumors, or speculation would not be becoming of members of the Church.
Though his sins be as scarlet, they can be white as snow, though they be red like crimson they can be as wool.
LDS Lady | 10:31 a.m. July 14, 2008
Perhaps everyone who watches TV should be excommunicated. There is more filth on
TV that a lot of member watch, and much worse than those cute missionary guys,
on a calendar. Some LDS I know run around without their shirts on in my
neighborhood who have as well been through the temple. Some of the LDS mothers
and daughters run around in skimpy bathing suits too. They are pretty lewd to
say the truth. I am perfect though, and keep my body covered.
Carl | 10:33 a.m. July 14, 2008
I respect the Church's position and statement. All of the things written
in any newspaper will come from the individual, not the church. The church does
not seek the publicity. The individual is free to spout off however they wish.
Honestly, there has to be something more to the excommunication...ask the individual. He will likely not say. And, when he gets his letter, have him publish it!
Honestly, there has to be something more to the excommunication...ask the individual. He will likely not say. And, when he gets his letter, have him publish it!
Rich | 10:36 a.m. July 14, 2008
Why is everyone so judgmental. No one takes life more seriously than the
Mormons.
Relax everyone, the sun comes up for us all, even if we are exed, or inactive, or never LDS.
Life is way to short to waste it worrying about what other people are doing
Relax everyone, the sun comes up for us all, even if we are exed, or inactive, or never LDS.
Life is way to short to waste it worrying about what other people are doing
Its not about the Calendar! | 10:38 a.m. July 14, 2008
Mr Hardy was Excommunicated for other actions violating church covenants. The
calendar issue was just one matter discussed at the court. He was
Excommunicated after weighing all of his actions together. Read between the
lines people.
Aaron Trulson | 10:42 a.m. July 14, 2008
Just what the church needs, an inactive member deciding what its image should be.
That makes so much sense!
Lets have a guy design the exterior facade of a building with no reguard as to what is going on inside the building.
Once again | 10:43 a.m. July 14, 2008
"You can leave the LDS Church, but you can't leave it alone."
Anonymous | 10:44 a.m. July 14, 2008
I think this is truly a saddening situation, and I disagree with the actions of
this man and anyone involved entirely. However, at times I do believe that we
would all be alot better off if everyone would take the three minutes that they
took to write a comment condemning Mr. Hardy for his poor choices and focus on
one fault of their own they could work on today. It's just not on our job
to speak ill of people.
identity crisis in Mormonism | 10:47 a.m. July 14, 2008
Some confuse rigidity with high standards. It looks to me like the white guy
managers of the LDS Church are going through an identity crisis. On the one
hand, they want to be modern and mainstream, but they also seem paranoid to a
ridiculous degree.
In Las Vegas--of all paces--in 2008, the LDS excommunicated and effectively 'unsealed' a person who published a G-rated calendar depicting college athletic guys with their shirts off. The good bishops must not have noticed that shirtless men are a common sight across America, in sports, at parks, pools, jogging, construction workers, kids in summertime, etc. The Church comes off looking paranoid, way out of touch with the modern mainstream it so wants to belong to.
In Las Vegas--of all paces--in 2008, the LDS excommunicated and effectively 'unsealed' a person who published a G-rated calendar depicting college athletic guys with their shirts off. The good bishops must not have noticed that shirtless men are a common sight across America, in sports, at parks, pools, jogging, construction workers, kids in summertime, etc. The Church comes off looking paranoid, way out of touch with the modern mainstream it so wants to belong to.
Ted | 10:46 a.m. July 14, 2008
I can tell you how Chad Hardy feels. He feels happy and relieved. I resigned my
membership, and the day it was complete was a great day! The feeling of
liberation and genuineness is one of the most powerful spiritual experiences I
have ever felt! No more doing things because you are commanded or because
someone is watching. You do things because you genuinely believe in them. It is
wonderful!
God bless Chad Hardy.
God bless Chad Hardy.
Anonymous | 10:49 a.m. July 14, 2008
There are a couple of little quotes that are applicable:
"You can leave the Church, but you can't leave it alone",
and
"those who talk, don't know. And those who know, don't talk."
When someone joins the Church and leaves neutral ground, they can never go back; they will either be for the Church, or against it.
I believe Church leaders saw Mr.Hardy heading for a cliff--not for making a calendar, but for other reasons not told by the Church out of respect for Mr.Hardy; reasons selectively not told by Mr.Hardy. I believe the Church lovingly called Mr.Hardy in to talk about his problem and see what they could do to help him. Mr.Hardy either misunderstood, or was too unwilling to accept help.
I believe the Church is a group of fallible people who are trying hard to love and follow the Lord Jesus Christ. We make mistakes, but for the most part we are trying to help all of God's children be happy & return Home to Him. I hope Mr.Hardy will use this excommunication as a chance to reevaluate, start over & one day return to full fellowship. We need every person in the fold of God.
"You can leave the Church, but you can't leave it alone",
and
"those who talk, don't know. And those who know, don't talk."
When someone joins the Church and leaves neutral ground, they can never go back; they will either be for the Church, or against it.
I believe Church leaders saw Mr.Hardy heading for a cliff--not for making a calendar, but for other reasons not told by the Church out of respect for Mr.Hardy; reasons selectively not told by Mr.Hardy. I believe the Church lovingly called Mr.Hardy in to talk about his problem and see what they could do to help him. Mr.Hardy either misunderstood, or was too unwilling to accept help.
I believe the Church is a group of fallible people who are trying hard to love and follow the Lord Jesus Christ. We make mistakes, but for the most part we are trying to help all of God's children be happy & return Home to Him. I hope Mr.Hardy will use this excommunication as a chance to reevaluate, start over & one day return to full fellowship. We need every person in the fold of God.
Obi wan liberali | 10:50 a.m. July 14, 2008
Mormon free-agency- "the right to do what you are told or face the
consequences."
re:Chris | 10:50 a.m. July 14, 2008
I guess your are reading posts.
Sharon in Texas | 10:54 a.m. July 14, 2008
You know, some of you might be taken more seriously if you had any clue what
things like "free agency" and "Constitutional Rights" and
"free speech" mean. He obviously exercised his "free agency"
to make the calendar because it was made. Just because he doesn't control
the consequences doesn't mean he didn't have agency.
Regarding the riduculous statements about Constitutional rights and free speech, he wasn't arrested for it so obviously those concepts are still alive and well and have nothing to do with this issue.
Furthermore, nothing said he was excommunicated for creating "porn" We don't know exactly why. BUT... I don't have a problem if it were for the calendar. Not because of the "skin" but because he chose to represent the church (missionaries) in a way that is counter to their message.
Even still, I doubt he would be ex'd unless he had been warned that it was unacceptable and refused to stop. He himself said his goal was to "shake things up."
This has nothing to do with holier than thou, lack of free agency, tithing, self-righteousness, or anything else like that.
He made his choice and the church made theirs.
Regarding the riduculous statements about Constitutional rights and free speech, he wasn't arrested for it so obviously those concepts are still alive and well and have nothing to do with this issue.
Furthermore, nothing said he was excommunicated for creating "porn" We don't know exactly why. BUT... I don't have a problem if it were for the calendar. Not because of the "skin" but because he chose to represent the church (missionaries) in a way that is counter to their message.
Even still, I doubt he would be ex'd unless he had been warned that it was unacceptable and refused to stop. He himself said his goal was to "shake things up."
This has nothing to do with holier than thou, lack of free agency, tithing, self-righteousness, or anything else like that.
He made his choice and the church made theirs.
Idaho Spud | 11:00 a.m. July 14, 2008
Sad that this has distracted most of us from looking within to correct our own
less than perfect behaviors . I'm not saying I support this guys choice of
entrepreneurialism but , when you guys get done passing judgement on this guy ,
can you help me with this beam I have stuck in my eye .
utah native | 11:04 a.m. July 14, 2008
Blah, blah, blah....
Hey Chad, right on! Where can the calendars be purchased?
Hey Chad, right on! Where can the calendars be purchased?
brerabbit | 11:03 a.m. July 14, 2008
First: you have never read "free agency" in any church publication
approved by the church, nor have you read an official represenative of the
church use that expression. The first time that anything remotely similar to
that was expressed was in the garden "thou mayest choose for thyself, never
the less remember that I forbid it" and on a seperate osccasion the same
person, only in a mortal state said you are free to choose (GOOD),Christ or
(EVIL)Satan. Neither in scripture nor the constitution of the United States will
you read "free agency" as expressed in the comments above.
Second: The things of God are understood by the spirit of God. The things of man are understood by the spirit of man. Don't try to explain things you don't understand. "Seek first to understand then to be understood"
Second: The things of God are understood by the spirit of God. The things of man are understood by the spirit of man. Don't try to explain things you don't understand. "Seek first to understand then to be understood"
Free Agent | 11:09 a.m. July 14, 2008
Don't mean to quibble, but...See if you can find the term "free
agency" or "free agent" in the scriptures. Good luck! Agency is
God given but it is not free. It is constrained by law (e.g. natural, temporal
and eternal) and consequence. We are not free to make any choice we want (I
cannot choose to shoot 3 under par at Pebble Creek today, nor to have a 42"
vertical by this weekend), as our choices are constrained. I could give other
examples but you get the point. We are given agency, not free agency.
eileen | 11:07 a.m. July 14, 2008
I live in California and am not of the Mormon faith. I do not find the pictures
offensive. What I do find offensive is that someone would use ANY church to try
and make a few bucks. If he had just left out the part about the young men
being "Mormon missionaries" this would be a non-issue and it would
just be a "cheese cake" calendar hanging in dorm rooms around the
country. But that being said,
it would not have had the notariety nor would he have sold as many. That you lost your membership in a good church is a sad commentary, Mr. Hardy. Was it worth the $$ for you to "dance with the devil"?
it would not have had the notariety nor would he have sold as many. That you lost your membership in a good church is a sad commentary, Mr. Hardy. Was it worth the $$ for you to "dance with the devil"?
Image is everything | 11:11 a.m. July 14, 2008
This is another clear example of the Church caring about its' image more
than its' members.
Steve | 11:16 a.m. July 14, 2008
Folks,
Please, please, please lay off the dumb calendar. It is not a big deal. Never has been.
It isn't pornographic. It is arguably tacky. But, it is not evil.
These kinds of calendars are done all of the time. There was one done of Catholic priests a year ago. BYU has done calendars that are more revealing of athletic teams. The BYU bookstore has sold calendars showing more.
Mr. Hardy clearly has other problems in his life. My guess is that the excommunication had far less to do with the silly calendar and far more to do with other lifestyle choices. But, this reaction HELPS him.
Continuing to pound this stupid calendar as the latest intrusion of Satan into the world is just plain weird. That attitude is what is fanning this silly story. And, that, in and in itself, is harmful to the LDS Church and its members.
Disagree with the calendar if you will. But, don't assume that the participants have been shamed for life. Nor, has those who have viewed the calendar been irreparably harmed. This is just a set of pictures of handsome, male 20-somethings. It tells a bit about their lives. Big deal.
Please, please, please lay off the dumb calendar. It is not a big deal. Never has been.
It isn't pornographic. It is arguably tacky. But, it is not evil.
These kinds of calendars are done all of the time. There was one done of Catholic priests a year ago. BYU has done calendars that are more revealing of athletic teams. The BYU bookstore has sold calendars showing more.
Mr. Hardy clearly has other problems in his life. My guess is that the excommunication had far less to do with the silly calendar and far more to do with other lifestyle choices. But, this reaction HELPS him.
Continuing to pound this stupid calendar as the latest intrusion of Satan into the world is just plain weird. That attitude is what is fanning this silly story. And, that, in and in itself, is harmful to the LDS Church and its members.
Disagree with the calendar if you will. But, don't assume that the participants have been shamed for life. Nor, has those who have viewed the calendar been irreparably harmed. This is just a set of pictures of handsome, male 20-somethings. It tells a bit about their lives. Big deal.
OC Surfer | 11:18 a.m. July 14, 2008
Chad said earlier, he's never been contacted by anyone from the church
encouraging his return to the fold.
If anyone who should be called into a disciplinary meeting, it should be the home teachers, Bishop, and Elder Quoroum President who failed in their responsibilites and covenants to reach out to him back in 2002.
That's a bigger issue than some calendar with shirtless guys on it.
If anyone who should be called into a disciplinary meeting, it should be the home teachers, Bishop, and Elder Quoroum President who failed in their responsibilites and covenants to reach out to him back in 2002.
That's a bigger issue than some calendar with shirtless guys on it.
Anonymous | 11:39 a.m. July 14, 2008
Selling a "beefcake" calendar for MONEY is not artistic expression.
What he committed is most likely the actionable tort of "false light". To protect its name, the church could have sued him. Instead they excommunicated him. Seems like he got off easy.
What he committed is most likely the actionable tort of "false light". To protect its name, the church could have sued him. Instead they excommunicated him. Seems like he got off easy.
duh... | 11:37 a.m. July 14, 2008
He was ex'd for more than a calendar...come on folks think about it.
Relocated Southerner | 11:39 a.m. July 14, 2008
RE: Anytime | 8:58 a.m
They certainly did use the image of the Church. Although the missionaries' photos were their own, personal ones, the ones from their missions showed them in missionary attire, wearing the Church name tag, which has the Church's logo on it. That is a copyrighted image used in a non-Church setting and for one that is less than its intended use. I do agree with earlier posts, though, that the creator of the calendar, by his own admission, has not been living the Gospel standards for over six years and this surely contributed to his excommunication. The full reasons, however, are none of our business, and should be strictly between this individual, the Church and the Lord. I personally find the calendar distasteful and offensive, and I think that some of the young men who were naive enough to be drawn into this will live to regret their impulsive, youthful and poor decision.
They certainly did use the image of the Church. Although the missionaries' photos were their own, personal ones, the ones from their missions showed them in missionary attire, wearing the Church name tag, which has the Church's logo on it. That is a copyrighted image used in a non-Church setting and for one that is less than its intended use. I do agree with earlier posts, though, that the creator of the calendar, by his own admission, has not been living the Gospel standards for over six years and this surely contributed to his excommunication. The full reasons, however, are none of our business, and should be strictly between this individual, the Church and the Lord. I personally find the calendar distasteful and offensive, and I think that some of the young men who were naive enough to be drawn into this will live to regret their impulsive, youthful and poor decision.
Not our business!! | 11:43 a.m. July 14, 2008
I am sorry, but I do not think that it is anyone's business if he gets
exed. That should be private information and not for the whole world to see and
pass judgement.
Freddie | 11:52 a.m. July 14, 2008
>>Isn't this what the scriptures meant when they said separate the
wheat from the tares?<<
The calendar is actually separating the men from the boys.
The calendar is actually separating the men from the boys.
Anonymous in Yewta | 11:57 a.m. July 14, 2008
Exercise bad judgment and the powerful blade of excommunication will get wielded
on you. Honestly, I think the excommunication punishment is more for the
benefit of TBM's -- to make them feel better about ridding themselves of
undesirable faith-demoting elements within their ranks -- than it is a
punishment for someone who obviously wasn't on board with the faith.
dingo | 12:03 p.m. July 14, 2008
the fact that this is even a front page, news worthy type of story is sad.
religion is personal and not public. this should have been handled behind close
doors and with no comment from any parties involved directly or otherwise.
Message received | 12:07 p.m. July 14, 2008
What would Jesus do? Make these calendars? Pose for these calendars? Or ask
people to come unto Him and be like Him.
The Church of Jesus Christ invited this young man to come unto Christ and be like him, if he "doesn't fit that mold" that Jesus set, he has that right of free agency to not do as the Savior would do. But it is out of love that Christ's church removes his name from those who promise to follow the Savior and represent Jesus Christ's name. This man will be happier (And less accountable) living a lesser standard representing his ways, until he is prepared to live a higher standard and reach his true potential representing God's ways. Apparently he thinks he knows better than God and even seeks to counsel Him. That's the sad message I get from Chad's actions.
The Church of Jesus Christ invited this young man to come unto Christ and be like him, if he "doesn't fit that mold" that Jesus set, he has that right of free agency to not do as the Savior would do. But it is out of love that Christ's church removes his name from those who promise to follow the Savior and represent Jesus Christ's name. This man will be happier (And less accountable) living a lesser standard representing his ways, until he is prepared to live a higher standard and reach his true potential representing God's ways. Apparently he thinks he knows better than God and even seeks to counsel Him. That's the sad message I get from Chad's actions.
RE: Not Surprising | 12:09 p.m. July 14, 2008
Hot Nuns?? I supposed that'd have to be shot by Leonardo DaVinci - who was
excommunicated from the Catholic church multiple times...
I'm personally looking forward to the hot athiests calendar... Pastafarians Revealed?
I'm personally looking forward to the hot athiests calendar... Pastafarians Revealed?
Aaarrrggghhh Obi wan | 12:14 p.m. July 14, 2008
The "liberali" in your nom de plume is so fitting.
This is exactly how liberals view agency: Since I am free to do anything, I should be free of not only any consequence, but should be free from guilt, shame, regret, or any form of judgment or punishment related to my actions because of my choice. Those who say otherwise are harsh, intolerant, and hypocritical.
The stench that is now the judicial and political swamp of our country reeks of this anything-goes philosophy.
Society should function with the rule of law. Many posters here have already referenced eternal, immutable laws (God's law).
Interesting how evil once sought control by removing agency and now gains control by exalting choice sans personal responsibility.
This is exactly how liberals view agency: Since I am free to do anything, I should be free of not only any consequence, but should be free from guilt, shame, regret, or any form of judgment or punishment related to my actions because of my choice. Those who say otherwise are harsh, intolerant, and hypocritical.
The stench that is now the judicial and political swamp of our country reeks of this anything-goes philosophy.
Society should function with the rule of law. Many posters here have already referenced eternal, immutable laws (God's law).
Interesting how evil once sought control by removing agency and now gains control by exalting choice sans personal responsibility.
Bob Pomeroy | 12:18 p.m. July 14, 2008
image?
lame comment OC | 12:25 p.m. July 14, 2008
If your logic were true, there would be no church leaders in place because
people make mistakes all the time that have nothing to do with church
leadership. You clearly haven't had any church leadership responsibilities.
Alex | 12:25 p.m. July 14, 2008
Not our business!!:
"I am sorry, but I do not think that it is anyone's business if he gets exed. That should be private information and not for the whole world to see and pass judgement. "
Agreed. Hardy could have kept it discreet, but couldn't help himself. Oh, well.
"I am sorry, but I do not think that it is anyone's business if he gets exed. That should be private information and not for the whole world to see and pass judgement. "
Agreed. Hardy could have kept it discreet, but couldn't help himself. Oh, well.
Lost in Utah | 12:38 p.m. July 14, 2008
Christ said to Joseph Smith when he was in the liberty Jail: "It is the
nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little athority,
as the presume, they begin to exercise unrighteous dominion over their fellow
men. This probably applies here. Christ also said the the pompus people that
brought the adulterer to him for his permision to stone her; "He amoung
you that is without sin let him cast the first stone." They all took off
like scalded cats. He then said to the woman: "neither do I condem you, go
thy way and sin no more. He never said don't take off your shirt in
public. He never said that you can't have your picture taken and published
with your shirt off. Some of the other things he said were: Judge not!
Forgive everyone. Love your neighbor and your enimies! Some years ago I landed
at the airport in SLC the flight attendent said set your watches back 20 years
this is SLC, Utah. Now when I land, I expect the flight attendent to say:
Don't be surprised at anything. The people in Utah are perfect!
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