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Mormon missionary calendar-maker facing discipline
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CITIZEN | 5:39 p.m. July 12, 2008
WHEN THE POWER OF LOVE OVERCOMES THE LOVE OF POWER THE WORLD WILL HAVE PEACE.
JIMMI HENDRIX
Scotty | 5:51 p.m. July 12, 2008
Members of the Church become and stay members of the Church based on their own
choice to do so. Active members of the Church live the way they do because they
believe they are following God's plan of happiness. If a member decides to
behave contrary to the teachings of the Church, it's their choice. However,
they have to face disciplinary consequences equivalent to their actions.
It's not the Church's fault. It's the person's. Such is the
case here. Sorry bud, posing missionaries as a piece of meat was the wrong thing
to do. This guy just wanted attention, so I hope he's happy. I'd hate
to be him though
Not to clear | 6:12 p.m. July 12, 2008
Free Speech violations? He's not being told not to publish that calendar.
He can keep all the money he wants. Free speech doesn't guarantee no
consequences. Say what you want, just don't be offended when you offend
others.
Comments continue below
signs of the times | 6:15 p.m. July 12, 2008
Getting ready to teach gospel doctrine tomorrow...here is a quote I will be
using from Elder Melvin J. Ballard,
The standards that have long been maintained are being questioned and by many discarded. Are we also to succumb? NO! If that day comes, and it will, when the people from the ends of the earth will say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob," it will be to learn of the ways of this people. If we act and live like the world, why need they come here? They are to find something different here. It is easy for us to drift with the tide. It doesn't take much courage to do that, but it is difficult to go against the current. God has called upon this people to be pattern-makers for the whole world, to hold up an ensign that shall attract the attention of the ends of the earth."
This whole controversy is just one of so many that try to keep us from holding our standard high.
The standards that have long been maintained are being questioned and by many discarded. Are we also to succumb? NO! If that day comes, and it will, when the people from the ends of the earth will say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob," it will be to learn of the ways of this people. If we act and live like the world, why need they come here? They are to find something different here. It is easy for us to drift with the tide. It doesn't take much courage to do that, but it is difficult to go against the current. God has called upon this people to be pattern-makers for the whole world, to hold up an ensign that shall attract the attention of the ends of the earth."
This whole controversy is just one of so many that try to keep us from holding our standard high.
Nellie | 6:13 p.m. July 12, 2008
The point isn't really that the calendar of young men without shirts was
published, its that these same pages also held photos of these men dressed as
and presenting themselves as missionaries. This represents the LDS
church's missionary program - and church officials have every right to
control that particular aspect and image. Had this just been a calendar of
'20-something LDS men' - there would be no issue. I think the 12
models - and all those who applied need to consider what they are saying about
themselves as missionaries. Do what you want on your own time - but the 2 years
on a mission are theoretically dedicated to Heavenly Father.
between the lines | 6:24 p.m. July 12, 2008
Since when do churches have a right to say who can belong or not to their
organization? When did they get to set the guidelines for membership? They need
to be more like colleges or universities who have no guidelines to be accepted
or guidelines when a student is expelled. Students can do whatever the want
without consequences, the same should go for churches.
I should be able to mock religion and hurt others feeling without retribution... but nobody better do that to me...that would be wrong and a violation of my rights.
I should be able to mock religion and hurt others feeling without retribution... but nobody better do that to me...that would be wrong and a violation of my rights.
Crazy stuff man! | 6:35 p.m. July 12, 2008
I don't think its about shirtless guys and first amendment rights. Its just
degrading the title of missionary and what their purpose is. Their purpose is
not to look as sexy as possible! Come on people. If they want to do playboy
after their mission thats their problem. just not as a missionary
Helen Crump | 6:38 p.m. July 12, 2008
Are the missionaries who posed going to be disciplined? They should! If if were
my son I would be embarrassed and ashamed. This is not what the missionaries
represent. And it is a little weird a guy taking pictures of young men. Look at
the poses it is very different than when they play shirts and skins or go
swimming!
Rob | 6:44 p.m. July 12, 2008
I thank the Lord I am a member of a church that teaches modesty to its members
and respect for His image (in who's image we illustrate). Regardless of how
some choose to live, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints cannot be
blamed. Their teachings are Christ's teachings and any who say otherwise
have not tried to live them. (John 7:17)
How the aforementioned church chooses to teach Christ's principles are totally between the organization and the Lord. They claim to receive revelation from Him as to how to direct His affairs. How many commenting here have the audacity to claim they received revelation from the Lord that the Church is doing it wrong? Until you can claim to have some authority and that this authority is given you from Heaven (as the church of Jesus Christ does) it is but your opinion and your judgement, not the opinion of He who sets the guidelines for membership.
How the aforementioned church chooses to teach Christ's principles are totally between the organization and the Lord. They claim to receive revelation from Him as to how to direct His affairs. How many commenting here have the audacity to claim they received revelation from the Lord that the Church is doing it wrong? Until you can claim to have some authority and that this authority is given you from Heaven (as the church of Jesus Christ does) it is but your opinion and your judgement, not the opinion of He who sets the guidelines for membership.
be a man | 6:44 p.m. July 12, 2008
I agree with Crazy stuff man! I also want to point out that everyone loves to
blame Mr Hardy or anyone who has fallen away from the church on that
person's church leaders. The guy served a mission. Be a man! If you believe
it, do it. If you don't, don't sit around and cry because no one came
to visit you and find out why. Your an adult! Get over it!
Perry Mason | 6:50 p.m. July 12, 2008
"It is illegal to use company symbols to sell products without their
consent. The church has good grounds for a LAW SUIT." --copyrights violated
| 4:14 p.m. July 12, 2008
That's ridiculous. It would not be possible to demonstrate to a reasonable person that that plain, black plastic name tags with standard white engraved letters, which are made and sold by hundreds of fabricators, were copyright protected company symbol, regardless of what the text read.
That's ridiculous. It would not be possible to demonstrate to a reasonable person that that plain, black plastic name tags with standard white engraved letters, which are made and sold by hundreds of fabricators, were copyright protected company symbol, regardless of what the text read.
re: between the lines | 6:51 p.m. July 12, 2008
Answer to your question/s: Since the beginning of time when Adam and Eve ate the
fruit. - read the bible -
When did they get to set the guidelines for membership? again - read the bible - "repent and be baptized" - 'repent' came first. The universe is composed of good and evil - it is for each individual to continually repent and choose the good. That quest to continually become better is largely the defining factor to one's place in varying degrees of heaven and hell.
There's a difference between toleration and love. There is no sin in heaven. There can't be. Anything less would not be heaven. God loves us and because he does he does not tolerate sin. As a parent aids in a child's progress by teaching him to do good rather than bad - to share his toys and clean up after himself - - so God develops his children. Love is disciplining one's self enough to become what God wants them to become. It is not slacking off on one's morals to the degree that they become a force in the world contrary to everything God is and stands for.
When did they get to set the guidelines for membership? again - read the bible - "repent and be baptized" - 'repent' came first. The universe is composed of good and evil - it is for each individual to continually repent and choose the good. That quest to continually become better is largely the defining factor to one's place in varying degrees of heaven and hell.
There's a difference between toleration and love. There is no sin in heaven. There can't be. Anything less would not be heaven. God loves us and because he does he does not tolerate sin. As a parent aids in a child's progress by teaching him to do good rather than bad - to share his toys and clean up after himself - - so God develops his children. Love is disciplining one's self enough to become what God wants them to become. It is not slacking off on one's morals to the degree that they become a force in the world contrary to everything God is and stands for.
Utah RM | 6:58 p.m. July 12, 2008
As a returned missionary I think this calendar does more harm than good. It
saddens me that a returned missionary who created the calendar has decided that
the white shirt and tie which is the attire of missionaries throughtout the
world should be replaced to show the world that we can be one of them when
infact we are in the world but the values that the church teaches are on a much
high plain than the standards of the world.
to Citizen | 7:00 p.m. July 12, 2008
You're kidding, right? Let's see....moral men or Jimi
Hendrix....I'll take men of character every time.
Dear Susie, | 7:04 p.m. July 12, 2008
I don't know why none of you active Mormons ever get it. In most other
religions, a person does not have to attend church every week to be considered a
member. Other churches fellowship all people (even you, if you want to walk
into their church and sit in the pews). I have not attended my ward in almost a
year, but that doesn't mean I am committing any sins. It just means
I've made the choice to do something else on Sundays. I may show up next
Sunday, I may not. Why does that mean I can't be a member? You have such
a wonderful, Christ-like attitude: "it's no big loss..." if he
leaves the church. Nice.
re: re: between the limes | 7:05 p.m. July 12, 2008
Uhhhhh....I think the original poster was using sarcasm. Ever heard of it? I
think you're both on the same team. Play nice together now.
re: re: between the lines | 7:08 p.m. July 12, 2008
I think the comments of "between the lines" were meant to be
tongue-firmly-implanted-in-cheek.
RE: Timothy | 3:14 p.m. | 7:10 p.m. July 12, 2008
The church should do a better job of picking its battles?
1) This calendar is contrary to church standards, and no faithful member of the church wants to see this confused in anyone's eyes as an official church publication. The church has every right to speak out against it.
2) Had Chad Hardy simply created a topless male (or even female) calendar without both USING RMs and MARKETING the calendar as RM beefcake, that'd be his own business--though questionable. But since missionaries are official representatives of the church for two years, their association with the church's official image IS a much bigger problem.
3) There's a little pamphlet called "For the Strength of Youth" that clearly outlines the church's position on material that's designed to exploit the human body and arouse passions. THAT one IS an official church publication.
4) The church is well within its rights to want its official position understood and clarified. The church also would understandably want no association with an entity that objectifies and exploits the human body.
So what's not worth fighting for here?
1) This calendar is contrary to church standards, and no faithful member of the church wants to see this confused in anyone's eyes as an official church publication. The church has every right to speak out against it.
2) Had Chad Hardy simply created a topless male (or even female) calendar without both USING RMs and MARKETING the calendar as RM beefcake, that'd be his own business--though questionable. But since missionaries are official representatives of the church for two years, their association with the church's official image IS a much bigger problem.
3) There's a little pamphlet called "For the Strength of Youth" that clearly outlines the church's position on material that's designed to exploit the human body and arouse passions. THAT one IS an official church publication.
4) The church is well within its rights to want its official position understood and clarified. The church also would understandably want no association with an entity that objectifies and exploits the human body.
So what's not worth fighting for here?
To Poster @7:00 | 7:21 p.m. July 12, 2008
"You're kidding, right? Let's see....moral men or Jimi
Hendrix....I'll take men of character every time."
This is exactly the kind of arrogant comment that irritates people outside of the LDS church. Do you really believe that what people say is not relevant or of value unless they are members? The quote by Jimi Hendrix could have easily been said by a GA. Would that make it true?
Come on people, let's open our minds and hearts a bit. Every human being has value and deserves to be respected and heard.
This is exactly the kind of arrogant comment that irritates people outside of the LDS church. Do you really believe that what people say is not relevant or of value unless they are members? The quote by Jimi Hendrix could have easily been said by a GA. Would that make it true?
Come on people, let's open our minds and hearts a bit. Every human being has value and deserves to be respected and heard.
Attending Church is a commandmen | 7:59 p.m. July 12, 2008
Dear Susie,
"I don't know why none of you active Mormons ever get it. In most other religions, a person does not have to attend church every week to be considered a member."
We aren't every other religion and their belief system has nothing to do with ours.
"Other churches fellowship all people...I have not attended my ward in almost a year, but that doesn't mean I am committing any sins. It just means I've made the choice to do something else on Sundays."
The scriptures and teachings of the Prophets make it clear that attending Church on Sunday and partaking of the sacrament worthily is a commandment. Those who routinely flaunt this commandment have committed a sin. It may not be as SERIOUS of a sin as murder but it is a sin as EGREGIOUS as murder.
"I may show up next Sunday, I may not. Why does that mean I can't be a member? You have such a wonderful, Christ-like attitude: "it's no big loss..." if he leaves the church. Nice."
Your response is just as un-Christlike so deal with the beam in your eye before looking in your brothers eye.
"I don't know why none of you active Mormons ever get it. In most other religions, a person does not have to attend church every week to be considered a member."
We aren't every other religion and their belief system has nothing to do with ours.
"Other churches fellowship all people...I have not attended my ward in almost a year, but that doesn't mean I am committing any sins. It just means I've made the choice to do something else on Sundays."
The scriptures and teachings of the Prophets make it clear that attending Church on Sunday and partaking of the sacrament worthily is a commandment. Those who routinely flaunt this commandment have committed a sin. It may not be as SERIOUS of a sin as murder but it is a sin as EGREGIOUS as murder.
"I may show up next Sunday, I may not. Why does that mean I can't be a member? You have such a wonderful, Christ-like attitude: "it's no big loss..." if he leaves the church. Nice."
Your response is just as un-Christlike so deal with the beam in your eye before looking in your brothers eye.
SE Idaho | 8:04 p.m. July 12, 2008
Doesn't anyone get it?
These are -- in the calendar -- represented as FORMER LDS missionaries. It means they are individuals not representatives of the missionary program.
People are WAY over playing this.
These are -- in the calendar -- represented as FORMER LDS missionaries. It means they are individuals not representatives of the missionary program.
People are WAY over playing this.
Response to a jerk | 8:05 p.m. July 12, 2008
To Poster @7:00 | 7:21 p.m. July 12, 2008
"You're kidding, right? Let's see....moral men or Jimi Hendrix....I'll take men of character every time."
"This is exactly the kind of arrogant comment that irritates people outside of the LDS church. Do you really believe that what people say is not relevant or of value unless they are members?"
And your comment is EXACTLY THE KIND of comment that irritates many people inside the Church. The point he was making is valid so to accuse him of arrogance is arrogant.
"Come on people, let's open our minds and hearts a bit. Every human being has value and deserves to be respected and heard."
I guess those who you demean in your post don't deserve the respect. That poster did nothing to you but disagree with you and you call him arrogant, say he doesn't respect people and I for one will not let you people gain up on those who disagree with you just because he has the courage to state his beliefs and how he feels. Get a life and get a clue and enough of your nasty, mean-spirited posts. Nothing that poster was anywhere near as disrespectful.
Call me unreasonable to my face | 8:12 p.m. July 12, 2008
Perry Mason | 6:50 p.m. July 12, 2008
"It is illegal to use company symbols to sell products without their consent. The church has good grounds for a LAW SUIT." --copyrights violated | 4:14 p.m. July 12, 2008
"That's ridiculous. It would not be possible to demonstrate to a reasonable person that that plain, black plastic name tags with standard white engraved letters, which are made and sold by hundreds of fabricators, were copyright protected company symbol, regardless of what the text read."
Yes your Honor. Those of us who don't agree with you aren't reasonable people even though you and those who would share your opinion on this subject are the ones being unreasonable.
Any idiot with a brain would be able to see this is a copyright infringement. Not only does the website use the word Mormon, it also make it clear that the men in the calendar are returned missionaries and it also uses the "missionary name tag."
Let's talk about ridiculous and how ridiculous your post sounds to reasonable people and how only those who are unreasonable would share your opinion. It's always interests how self-absorbed some of you are but you are wrong.
"It is illegal to use company symbols to sell products without their consent. The church has good grounds for a LAW SUIT." --copyrights violated | 4:14 p.m. July 12, 2008
"That's ridiculous. It would not be possible to demonstrate to a reasonable person that that plain, black plastic name tags with standard white engraved letters, which are made and sold by hundreds of fabricators, were copyright protected company symbol, regardless of what the text read."
Yes your Honor. Those of us who don't agree with you aren't reasonable people even though you and those who would share your opinion on this subject are the ones being unreasonable.
Any idiot with a brain would be able to see this is a copyright infringement. Not only does the website use the word Mormon, it also make it clear that the men in the calendar are returned missionaries and it also uses the "missionary name tag."
Let's talk about ridiculous and how ridiculous your post sounds to reasonable people and how only those who are unreasonable would share your opinion. It's always interests how self-absorbed some of you are but you are wrong.
Bye Chad | 8:13 p.m. July 12, 2008
You goofed big time on this one (shoulda left the Church and any references to
it out of this). Have a nice life chasing the $$s. I believe that is all you
will have to look back on and nothing to look forward to -- and that is sad.
to: to poster | 8:19 p.m. July 12, 2008
I think that comment by Jimi Hendrix smacks of "flower-power"
idealism. Not that idealism is a bad thing; it's not. It is naive',
though, to think that if we all join hands and sing Kumbaya that all of the
problems of the world will disappear.
I believe that when all people become loving and Christ-like, then and only then will we have peace.
I believe that when all people become loving and Christ-like, then and only then will we have peace.
Billie Joel | 8:33 p.m. July 12, 2008
"I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints, the
sinners are much more fun!"
Anonymous | 8:44 p.m. July 12, 2008
The Church cannot possibly have a copyright on the use of the word
"Mormon"
there is NO WAy they have a copyright on name tags.
They cannot have a copyright on white shirts and ties.
You Mormons are being absolutely petty and stupid about this!
there is NO WAy they have a copyright on name tags.
They cannot have a copyright on white shirts and ties.
You Mormons are being absolutely petty and stupid about this!
Yeah, Billie Joel | 8:46 p.m. July 12, 2008
If you believe this life is all there is, maybe so!
me | 8:53 p.m. July 12, 2008
What about the 12 return missionaries that posed? How is the church dealing with
them. I went to the website and saw the product. I found it humorous and not
offensive. If this man has not followed the church for several years do you
think he is going to be concerned about their "punishment". They do
have more resources then he does, if they really want to stop it, they would
just tie him up in court for a few years.
Re: Response to a Jerk | 8:52 p.m. July 12, 2008
WOW! Thanks for making my point.
Anonymous | 8:56 p.m. July 12, 2008
You people are insane. I'm so glad I'm not part of this petty
organization. It's amazing the church survives if this group is an accurate
representation of those inside.
Active LDS | 8:58 p.m. July 12, 2008
Hey, I don't care, why should anyone else?
I don't care, it free speech, and what happens between a member and his church leaders are not my business.
Why is this a story. Dude doesn't go to church, and wanted to make a buck, This is just free advertising.
Hey, good LDS and Anti-LDS readers, why do any of you care?
I don't care, it free speech, and what happens between a member and his church leaders are not my business.
Why is this a story. Dude doesn't go to church, and wanted to make a buck, This is just free advertising.
Hey, good LDS and Anti-LDS readers, why do any of you care?
Vegas Ed | 9:00 p.m. July 12, 2008
If he gets any discipline, it won't be for the calender. It will be for
running to the media. If he hadn't alerted the media, he would have been
just talked to. Now, it could go either way. But it's not up to the chat
room. It'js up to him and those in that room. I still can't believe
he made the letter public.
Chris in Texas | 9:05 p.m. July 12, 2008
I don't blame Mr. Hardy for this crude creation, but rather the
missionaries themselves. Any missionary posing and giving comments for such a
calendar obviously has too much time on his hands and is not out preaching the
gospel per his calling. I blame him, his bishop for not thoroughly interviewing
him, his parents for not raising him with higher standards, and his mission
leaders for failure to properly supervise them. Release these elders and send
'em home. So much for "raising the bar"!
Mormon4Ever | 9:07 p.m. July 12, 2008
Wow and really? If you decide to follow Jesus Christ is that a mind control? is
that NOT to think for your self? If you don't want to do what ANY RELIGION
(no only LDS) ask you to do as a follower. Is that free speech and a GOOD
religion? Before judging LDS principles or system as a religion PLEASE be SMART
and DO NOT try to justify your actions and avoid its consequences.
Law Dude | 9:11 p.m. July 12, 2008
Actually, the church can indeed, and probably does, have a trademark in the name
Mormon, a descriptive term with secondary meaning associated with the Salt Lake
church. It also certainly has registered, and now presumptively valid, trademark
in the church's name which is on the name tag being displayed. But even if
not registered, the church has used that name in commerce (as defined by the
law) for over 150 years, and is therefore a very strong trademark.
Any commercial transactions that use those trademarks, or that dilute the good will in those trademarks, is a violation of the rights of the church, and is remediable in court.
Any commercial transactions that use those trademarks, or that dilute the good will in those trademarks, is a violation of the rights of the church, and is remediable in court.
Law Dude | 9:11 p.m. July 12, 2008
On a spiritual note, anyone that really wants to be a Mormon, also really wants
to try to follow his leaders.
If this only wants to be a Mormon to "keep his heritage", maybe he should leave the church and spend more time doing genealogy.
He can�t define what it means to be a Mormon, any more than an F student can define what it means to be a Harvard student.
Nobody says a word when a student is dismissed from Yale for even unintended bad academic performance. Why does everyone attack the Mormon church for dismissing only willful and unapologetic bad performers?
If this only wants to be a Mormon to "keep his heritage", maybe he should leave the church and spend more time doing genealogy.
He can�t define what it means to be a Mormon, any more than an F student can define what it means to be a Harvard student.
Nobody says a word when a student is dismissed from Yale for even unintended bad academic performance. Why does everyone attack the Mormon church for dismissing only willful and unapologetic bad performers?
To: Anonymous @ 8:44 | 9:49 p.m. July 12, 2008
Actually it is you who is being "petty and stupid about this."
The Church has the copyright on the Book of Mormon, which was featured on the calendar. In addition, the word "Mormon" is copyrighted for use in "educational materials." All depends on what you consider "educational", but for sure using the BoM without permission was a violation.
Personally, I doubt the church would go so far as to sue, but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't have a legal case.
The Church has the copyright on the Book of Mormon, which was featured on the calendar. In addition, the word "Mormon" is copyrighted for use in "educational materials." All depends on what you consider "educational", but for sure using the BoM without permission was a violation.
Personally, I doubt the church would go so far as to sue, but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't have a legal case.
simply bored | 9:51 p.m. July 12, 2008
too often i read about bad things people talk about lds church.knowing more and
more make me sick.iam not a member of the church,but i know that lds church
teach good things. only some of the doctrins different from the majority
christian.in this free modern world its good to know that the church put
important about living value.it may be look so old fashion to all of us who do
not used to this kind of ruling,but since its theirs,let it be.every one is free
to choose ,lets not look down on somebody's belief.To LDS church,its not
right either for you to feel superiour about your church by saying that your
church is the true church in the world,you always preach people to be humble,but
your action seems opposite.we may just ourselves,but not others.
Steve | 10:11 p.m. July 12, 2008
This is utterly the stupidest thing I've heard in years.
These guys ARE NOT MISSSIONARIES. They are FORMER missionaries.
The Church cannot control legally -- through copyright --- every depiction of the Church, its missionaries or anything else. Otherwise, filmakers could not depict Mormons on film (The Best Two Years). Authors could not write stories about missionaries or the Church (Work & The Glory, the various anti-Mormon books). And, plays could not depict any of these themes (ie. Saturday's Warrior)
This is a silly calendar of young gentleman who happen to be former missionaries. It is not pornographic.
It is only lustful if you think college athelete calendars are so or models features on the front of Men's Fitness.
Would I have done this calendar? No. But, it is not sinful. Nor is it harmful. It is not worthy of 4/5ths of the energy expended in this board.
Mr. Hardy probably has other issues in his life. But, this stupid little calendar is probably not one of them.
Folks, this discussion comes off as just plain weird.
These guys ARE NOT MISSSIONARIES. They are FORMER missionaries.
The Church cannot control legally -- through copyright --- every depiction of the Church, its missionaries or anything else. Otherwise, filmakers could not depict Mormons on film (The Best Two Years). Authors could not write stories about missionaries or the Church (Work & The Glory, the various anti-Mormon books). And, plays could not depict any of these themes (ie. Saturday's Warrior)
This is a silly calendar of young gentleman who happen to be former missionaries. It is not pornographic.
It is only lustful if you think college athelete calendars are so or models features on the front of Men's Fitness.
Would I have done this calendar? No. But, it is not sinful. Nor is it harmful. It is not worthy of 4/5ths of the energy expended in this board.
Mr. Hardy probably has other issues in his life. But, this stupid little calendar is probably not one of them.
Folks, this discussion comes off as just plain weird.
Allessandra | 10:23 p.m. July 12, 2008
What These guys chose to do is their own buisness. Anyone judging them needs to
stop cause you have no right to judge. If you dont like the calendar DONT look
at it! It has already been made.. get over it!
I think its hot and i want to buy it. just their shirts are off big deal! they arnt naked. im sure everyone has taken a topless picture! STOP JUDGING!
I think its hot and i want to buy it. just their shirts are off big deal! they arnt naked. im sure everyone has taken a topless picture! STOP JUDGING!
Jim | 10:33 p.m. July 12, 2008
I am very surprised that the LDS Church has spoken about church discipline of a
member in the open press. I thought that was all suppose to be CONFIDENTIAL
between a Church leader (Bishop or Stake President) and the individual. I think
THE CHURCH stepped over the line this time.
DUH! | 11:04 p.m. July 12, 2008
What happens in Vegas, Stays in Vegas...
Don't you people know anything???
Don't you people know anything???
Randy | 11:07 p.m. July 12, 2008
No matter how you look at it, the calender makes the missionaries sex objects. I
do not believe the church wants people to let missionaries through the door
because people think they are hot or to fulfil some dumb adolecent sexual
thrill. They are there to spiritually enlighten you and to try to help your
spiritual life and this calendar makes that impossible. No matter how you look
at it, the calendar hurts the LDS church and is offensive to a lot of people
including my wife and I who believe in modesty.
Perry Mason | 11:13 p.m. July 12, 2008
"It saddens me that a returned missionary who created the calendar has
decided that the white shirt and tie which is the attire of missionaries
throughtout[sic] the world ..." --Utah RM | 6:58 p.m. July 12, 2008
Men in the west have worn trousers and white shirts with ties since George Bryan "Beau" Brummell introduced the combination in London around 1800.
Who knew that Beau Brummel was the first Mormon missionary?
Men in the west have worn trousers and white shirts with ties since George Bryan "Beau" Brummell introduced the combination in London around 1800.
Who knew that Beau Brummel was the first Mormon missionary?
GIVE IT A REST!!! | 11:14 p.m. July 12, 2008
This is pretty sad, and I am to blame also, but this article has 243 posts and
then something as wonderful and inspired as the story about the Perpetual
Education Fund has received 27 posts. I would suggest that we stop the fight
here and spend our energy in something that has a far reaching nature. When a
child gets hyper, the worst thing we can do is to give him attention, stop
giving this guy attention. What is more important, a calender that is
spiritually tasteless, or a program that will help branches, wards, stakes and
thousands of people to rise above poverty and improve the economy of their home,
town and country. I admit that I am ashamed to have posted here and not put my
support and energy in a place that is a righteous effort. So do you want to
lend voice and support to a calender of missionaries in sexual poses or do you
want to lend your voice and support to missionaries who sacrificed and served
and are now seeking to better themselves? I vote we leave this party and go
over to the one about the Perpetual Education Fund, over and out.
Tuffy Parker | 11:26 p.m. July 12, 2008
A few points to consider:
1- Disciplinary action is confidential between local church leadership and the individual. This is being made public by Hardy, not the church.
2- It's likely that Hardy is an unequivocal opportunist who made this public to boost publicity and subsequently increase sales of his calendar. Given his statements regarding his current church activity, it's also likely that the seizing this opportunity is significantly more important to him than church membership.
3- It's obvious that Hardy is leveraging the church's name, brand, etc. to sell a product that clearly is not aligned with the aims or image of the church. This raises all kinds of legal and ethical issues which will bring consequences to Hardy.
1- Disciplinary action is confidential between local church leadership and the individual. This is being made public by Hardy, not the church.
2- It's likely that Hardy is an unequivocal opportunist who made this public to boost publicity and subsequently increase sales of his calendar. Given his statements regarding his current church activity, it's also likely that the seizing this opportunity is significantly more important to him than church membership.
3- It's obvious that Hardy is leveraging the church's name, brand, etc. to sell a product that clearly is not aligned with the aims or image of the church. This raises all kinds of legal and ethical issues which will bring consequences to Hardy.
re: re: between the lines | 11:26 p.m. July 12, 2008
"Since the beginning of time when Adam and Eve ate the fruit. - read the
bible - "
What does that have to do with anything? Genesis is clearly an allegorical parable.
What does that have to do with anything? Genesis is clearly an allegorical parable.
hmmmm | 11:35 p.m. July 12, 2008
Oh, to be out of this world where we will be judged by the content of our
character and not by the size of our chests.
Perry Mason | 11:40 p.m. July 12, 2008
"But even if not registered, the church has used that name in commerce (as
defined by the law) for over 150 years, and is therefore a very strong
trademark." ==Law Dude | 9:11 p.m. July 12, 2008
So is free practice of religion in the US now governed by rules of commerce? By which court?
If the church's name is indeed copyrighted trademark, please explain how Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints, The Latter Day Saints, Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as well as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have all called themselves and/or been called Mormons.
So is free practice of religion in the US now governed by rules of commerce? By which court?
If the church's name is indeed copyrighted trademark, please explain how Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints, The Latter Day Saints, Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as well as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have all called themselves and/or been called Mormons.
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Associated Press
Chad Hardy, 31, creator of the "Men on a Mission" calendar featuring shirtless Mormon missionaries, is pictured at his home in Las Vegas on Thursday.
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