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Pro-polygamy coalition takes issue with LDS objection to 'fundamentalist'
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lynn | 2:06 p.m. July 10, 2008
It is confusing though as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has
practiced polygamy in the past, we don't now because of government pressure
but we believe in the eternal concept-
Reality of language | 2:11 p.m. July 10, 2008
Join the club. I was censored for bringing up that Las Vegas was settled by
Mormons. Mormons benefit from a nation that values free speech while they deny
other the same right. It's about values, I guess.
The LDS Church in SLC doesn't control the American lexicon of English yet. Traditionally, we humans, are a lazy species. By the way becomes BTW. Never in language, will most writers, give up Mormon for writing The Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints. In most cases the Church of Jesus Christ would become the Church of Christ because adding Jesus does nothing to make the message clearer. The RLDS Chruch became "Community of Christ."
In America, Mormon is a general term for churches using the Book of Mormon.
Learn to deal with reality. It won't change just because you don't like reality.
The LDS Church in SLC doesn't control the American lexicon of English yet. Traditionally, we humans, are a lazy species. By the way becomes BTW. Never in language, will most writers, give up Mormon for writing The Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints. In most cases the Church of Jesus Christ would become the Church of Christ because adding Jesus does nothing to make the message clearer. The RLDS Chruch became "Community of Christ."
In America, Mormon is a general term for churches using the Book of Mormon.
Learn to deal with reality. It won't change just because you don't like reality.
excuse me? | 2:26 p.m. July 10, 2008
Show me a prophet or apostle's quote where they said polygamy is an eternal
concept. I'd love to hear it.
Comments continue below
realitycheck | 2:36 p.m. July 10, 2008
If you follow the Book of Mormon, you are Mormon.
If you follow the Bible, you are Christian.
If you follow the Koran, you are Muslim.
Why would that be so hard to understand? Where's the confusion?
If you follow the Bible, you are Christian.
If you follow the Koran, you are Muslim.
Why would that be so hard to understand? Where's the confusion?
Poster | 2:41 p.m. July 10, 2008
It is more than "confusing" - it is and always will be a crime against
humanity, based on unequal economic and societal power. It is an abusive
practice, hide behind what "front" you may. Don't let measured,
calculated words and vested, multi-million dollar interests quell or dissuade
your own integrity and instincts regarding what happened (and is currently
happening - think how many victims of abuse have suffered over many, many
lifetimes). The modern world doesn't let this happen any longer...neither
should you by feeling "pressured" and ostracized for not condoning an
abusive, criminal act (speaking to LDS and FLDS). The Deseret News itself
published a national poll in which 96% deemed it immoral (probably difficult to
get a much higher percentage for anything). Are you willing to condone it at
the expense of your sanity and innate feelings?
Cosmo | 3:10 p.m. July 10, 2008
So, if I wear modern clothes and modern spiked hair,
I then can become a member of the LDS Church?
I then can become a member of the LDS Church?
To: excuse me? | 3:17 p.m. July 10, 2008
You're being sarcastic right? A quick search of Brigham Young's
conference addresses will turn up several results for plural marriage being an
eternal principle. 132 states the same, unless twisted out of context to give a
modern apologetic interpretation.
Don't play with GOD! | 3:18 p.m. July 10, 2008
It doesn't matter what religion practices polygamy it will always be cruel
to women. No matter how much you men try to brainwash a woman into believing it
is from God, it will always remain in the back of her mind as not coming from
God, she will always be questioning the practice and wonder if she has been
scammed. You people who try to control the thinking of others are monsters! just
as once was Adolph Hitler, and you are just as evil. God will eventually have
his vengeances on you evil men. And it looks to me that it is now beginning.
geeez | 3:17 p.m. July 10, 2008
if one is going to be anything , be a good what ever, mormon, jew, catholic,
baptist, but most all try to be a child of god--hopefully a good one! the only
problem i have with the flds is where are their missionaries as i can ask any
questions to the mormon missionaries and they will tell me plain yet simple what
they believe...can the flds claim that? But the bottom line is ..take
people's freedom of choice away...then that is immoral...then to take the
children away also falls somewhat within that dilema also as i am sure there are
some good flds , that try to live a righteous life and do defend love their
children. even if they don't follow the law of the land...their leaders
need to be men and answer up!
To excuse me | 3:32 p.m. July 10, 2008
"Show me a prophet or apostle's quote where they said polygamy is an
eternal concept. I'd love to hear it."
Brigham Young: "The only men who become Gods, even the sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy" (J. of D. Vol. XI, p. 269) "
Brigham Young: "The only men who become Gods, even the sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy" (J. of D. Vol. XI, p. 269) "
tim | 3:51 p.m. July 10, 2008
my opinion is if a religion is a mass of confusion, perhaps find one that has
harmony and doesn't preach bs.
realitycheck | 3:57 p.m. July 10, 2008
re - Poster
are you talking about polygamy? how is that abusive if it is between consenting adults? How is that immoral?
Personally I think the FLDS is crazy, but that has nothing to do with polygamy. It has to do with isolating and over-sermonizing their children until every last ounce of freedom is drained from them. Now THAT'S immoral.
Perhaps it is somewhat of a result of having to hide due to polygamy being illegal, but they could just live amongst us and have as many wives as they want and we would just think they were swingers or something. (they could even wear their old-school dresses - we'd get used to it after a while - although they will never be a fashion statement.)
are you talking about polygamy? how is that abusive if it is between consenting adults? How is that immoral?
Personally I think the FLDS is crazy, but that has nothing to do with polygamy. It has to do with isolating and over-sermonizing their children until every last ounce of freedom is drained from them. Now THAT'S immoral.
Perhaps it is somewhat of a result of having to hide due to polygamy being illegal, but they could just live amongst us and have as many wives as they want and we would just think they were swingers or something. (they could even wear their old-school dresses - we'd get used to it after a while - although they will never be a fashion statement.)
To excuse me | 4:18 p.m. July 10, 2008
I'm not sure if the censors are simply over-whelmed right now or if my
quote was too controversial, but I did TRY to respond to you. Thanks for your
interest.
The Church Survived | 4:54 p.m. July 10, 2008
One would have thought that when plural marriage was introduced to the LDS
Church at large in 1852, that the church would have totally disintegrated but it
did not even though they had plural as well as monogamous marriages. I would
hope that if the prophet ever revoked the manifesto, that the Church would
survive the change again. If not it would separate out the true LDS who believe
in living prophets from those who only give lip service to the idea.
What appalls me is the LDS bloggers here who are so ashamed that the Church ever practiced it to begin with. Brigham Young warned the Saints that if they opposed the principle in their hearts, they would be damned for it. That is something to think about.
Here is a quote from Joseph F Smith regarding the manifesto:
�The doctrine is not repealed, the truth is not annulled, the law is right and just now as ever, but the observance of it is stopped�
What appalls me is the LDS bloggers here who are so ashamed that the Church ever practiced it to begin with. Brigham Young warned the Saints that if they opposed the principle in their hearts, they would be damned for it. That is something to think about.
Here is a quote from Joseph F Smith regarding the manifesto:
�The doctrine is not repealed, the truth is not annulled, the law is right and just now as ever, but the observance of it is stopped�
David | 5:14 p.m. July 10, 2008
Reality Check, why don't you do just that?
If you follow the Bible, you may be Jewish, Muslim or Christian. While the Jewish people do not follow the Christian NT, the do abide by the Tanakh or as a christian would call it, the NT. Mormons follow the Book of Mormon as an additional testimony of Jesus..which even by Rev Al Sharpton's standards makes them Christian even if different in some beliefs from other christian. You also seem to miss that Roman Catholics have a different bible than Lutherans/protestants in that it contains additional books.
If you follow the Bible, you may be Jewish, Muslim or Christian. While the Jewish people do not follow the Christian NT, the do abide by the Tanakh or as a christian would call it, the NT. Mormons follow the Book of Mormon as an additional testimony of Jesus..which even by Rev Al Sharpton's standards makes them Christian even if different in some beliefs from other christian. You also seem to miss that Roman Catholics have a different bible than Lutherans/protestants in that it contains additional books.
To: David | 6:08 p.m. July 10, 2008
I think it is interesting that Mormons call the BoM another testimont to JC when
from what I have seen it is the only testiment. From a lay view I would almost
say that mormons do not even study nor read the bible, it is all about the BoM.
I comforably say this why people will never except them as Christians.
John Lambert | 6:34 p.m. July 10, 2008
To Poster,
I have studied many records and can say that marriages by people under 18 did occur and they were not condidered scandalous. I am not arguing that everyone got married extremely young, but where you find a 29 year-old lady in the 1900 census in Oklahoma who has been married 13 years and has a twelve year old child do not tell me these things are unheard of. Anyway, what is common is not the issue, what is legal is. My grandmother got married in California in the late 1940s at age 17 without parental permission because you only needed parental permission to marry under age 16. Today every state has the minimum age to marry without parental permission no lower than 18.
I have studied many records and can say that marriages by people under 18 did occur and they were not condidered scandalous. I am not arguing that everyone got married extremely young, but where you find a 29 year-old lady in the 1900 census in Oklahoma who has been married 13 years and has a twelve year old child do not tell me these things are unheard of. Anyway, what is common is not the issue, what is legal is. My grandmother got married in California in the late 1940s at age 17 without parental permission because you only needed parental permission to marry under age 16. Today every state has the minimum age to marry without parental permission no lower than 18.
John Lambert | 6:47 p.m. July 10, 2008
To poster,
You totally ignore that the main argument on the difference between LDS and FLDS polygamy is that the matter involves centralized command while the former involves each person having a choice and Brigham Young exhorting the brethren to not force marriage on anyone.
All your hyping on the inacuracies of justifications given by people today for polygamy does not really go to the heart of the issue. All that anyone who does not speculate beyond the mark says is that polygamy was a commandment given to Joseph Smith.
The fact that some of the reasoning people have put forward to defend polygamy does not add up and is inacurate does not relate to the subject at hand. One is right with God when they follow his spirit and his prophets, not because they know every historical fact correctly.
You totally ignore that the main argument on the difference between LDS and FLDS polygamy is that the matter involves centralized command while the former involves each person having a choice and Brigham Young exhorting the brethren to not force marriage on anyone.
All your hyping on the inacuracies of justifications given by people today for polygamy does not really go to the heart of the issue. All that anyone who does not speculate beyond the mark says is that polygamy was a commandment given to Joseph Smith.
The fact that some of the reasoning people have put forward to defend polygamy does not add up and is inacurate does not relate to the subject at hand. One is right with God when they follow his spirit and his prophets, not because they know every historical fact correctly.
John Lambert | 6:49 p.m. July 10, 2008
To Lynn,
The reason that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint does not currently practice polygamy is because the Lord has commanded that the practice stop.
Some may argue that Official Declaration 1 did not stop new plural marriages in Mexico. They are right. However Joseph F. Smith recieved a revelation that was expressed in the Second Manifesto that commanded the stopping of polygamy.
Following the Word of Wisdom was not originally required to enter the temple. However Heber J. Grant recieved a revelation making such a condition of attending the temple.
The Church does not practice polygamy because it is not currently allowed by the Lord. Even in countries where polygamy is legal, practicing polygamy is grounds for excommunication from the church.
The reason that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint does not currently practice polygamy is because the Lord has commanded that the practice stop.
Some may argue that Official Declaration 1 did not stop new plural marriages in Mexico. They are right. However Joseph F. Smith recieved a revelation that was expressed in the Second Manifesto that commanded the stopping of polygamy.
Following the Word of Wisdom was not originally required to enter the temple. However Heber J. Grant recieved a revelation making such a condition of attending the temple.
The Church does not practice polygamy because it is not currently allowed by the Lord. Even in countries where polygamy is legal, practicing polygamy is grounds for excommunication from the church.
John Lambert | 6:52 p.m. July 10, 2008
To reality of language,
In America most people refer to "The Mormon Church" and mean a specific group. I have in previous discussion cited how this is done. The "Mormon missionaries" clearly means people from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Also, your reference to the Community of Christ ignores a major fact. RLDS was not shortened to The Community of Christ, they decided to proactively change their name.
In America most people refer to "The Mormon Church" and mean a specific group. I have in previous discussion cited how this is done. The "Mormon missionaries" clearly means people from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Also, your reference to the Community of Christ ignores a major fact. RLDS was not shortened to The Community of Christ, they decided to proactively change their name.
John Lambert | 6:57 p.m. July 10, 2008
To realitycheck,
Most people would argue if you believe that Jesus Christ was God made flesh, the son of God and the Messiah you are Christian. Believing the Old Testament does not make one Christian, and rejecting it as false scripture does not exclude one from being Christian.
The term Mormon is not used to designate those who belive in the Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ. It is used to designate those who belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which is most known for its teaching the Book of Mormon. The fact that the AP style guide tells reporters not to use "Mormon" to refer to those groups that broke from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints after the death of Joseph Smith tells you that the term is not directly connected to following the Book of Mormon.
Most people would argue if you believe that Jesus Christ was God made flesh, the son of God and the Messiah you are Christian. Believing the Old Testament does not make one Christian, and rejecting it as false scripture does not exclude one from being Christian.
The term Mormon is not used to designate those who belive in the Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ. It is used to designate those who belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which is most known for its teaching the Book of Mormon. The fact that the AP style guide tells reporters not to use "Mormon" to refer to those groups that broke from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints after the death of Joseph Smith tells you that the term is not directly connected to following the Book of Mormon.
Freedom of Religion | 7:20 p.m. July 10, 2008
Dear John,
I am writing to let you know I have found another . . hehe. (Mormon joke)
You don't know the polygamist culture as well as you think you do. I have been LDS for 30 years, so I know that religion. However, my dad left the LDS church and became a polygamist before I could talk, so I know that culture pretty darn well also.
People say this groups forces these girls into getting married. No they don't. They counsel girls on who they should marry, and then let them decide. Believe it or not, some of girls choose not to marry the man the church counsels them on. Nobody holds a gun to their head.
Don't call this counseling brainwashing, because then you would have to say that Christians brainwash their members into believing certain actions send them to hell. For example, premarital sex and running around naked in public. It's all based on the same logic. All religions tell their members certain actions will condemn them to hell, and if other religions have the right to pick and choose what actions send a person to hell, so do the FLDS. It's called freedom of religion.
I am writing to let you know I have found another . . hehe. (Mormon joke)
You don't know the polygamist culture as well as you think you do. I have been LDS for 30 years, so I know that religion. However, my dad left the LDS church and became a polygamist before I could talk, so I know that culture pretty darn well also.
People say this groups forces these girls into getting married. No they don't. They counsel girls on who they should marry, and then let them decide. Believe it or not, some of girls choose not to marry the man the church counsels them on. Nobody holds a gun to their head.
Don't call this counseling brainwashing, because then you would have to say that Christians brainwash their members into believing certain actions send them to hell. For example, premarital sex and running around naked in public. It's all based on the same logic. All religions tell their members certain actions will condemn them to hell, and if other religions have the right to pick and choose what actions send a person to hell, so do the FLDS. It's called freedom of religion.
Anonymous | 7:22 p.m. July 10, 2008
Wow! The censors are hard at work trying to contain this firestorm.
Freedom of Religion | 7:28 p.m. July 10, 2008
This whole don't call us Mormons is frivolous. The hard cold fact is the
rest of the world views anyone who believes in the "Book of Mormon" as
a Mormon. Simple as that. What a group does or how that group interprets the
book is irrelevant.
Shameful! | 7:45 p.m. July 10, 2008
Look at all the problems POLYGAMY causes. Now please tell me that there is
anything good with a practice that conjures up so much emotion in people. It is
immoral and filthy, and that is that. No scripture from GOD ALMIGHTY would ever
condone such evil. Only mans made up scriptures would condone and no man on
earth is GOD!
Thank you "Shameful" | 8:59 p.m. July 10, 2008
It is very much so! Polygamy in the Bible was a way of life and never
commanded. Better ways were found. Anyone that claims got "revealed it to
them" were not being honest about their desires to make adultry
"exalted". The previous LDS church was almost destroyed by it....the
church only continued because the prophet received a "revelation" to
discontinue. And not, the FLDS and others are paying dearly. Wake up people!
Cry BaBIES | 9:42 p.m. July 10, 2008
I really believe that whoever wants to call themselves mormons - let them do it.
No one that I know of has Copyrighted the name. I'm not sure a "proper
noun" or name can be copyrighted.
Lets all obey the laws of the land and let any group use the name they choose if you have not Registered the name or anything like unto it.
Lets all obey the laws of the land and let any group use the name they choose if you have not Registered the name or anything like unto it.
Lets get it Straight | 9:44 p.m. July 10, 2008
The LDS Church teachings are Thus:
Plural Marriage ---- More than one wife... Polygamy---you know, that which we all Brag the Brigham Young practiced..... is Eternal Principle of the LDS Church . The Doctrine and Covenants secton 132 States it so.
Now, if you cannot read. Then, the more condemned you may be at the last day./
Plural Marriage ---- More than one wife... Polygamy---you know, that which we all Brag the Brigham Young practiced..... is Eternal Principle of the LDS Church . The Doctrine and Covenants secton 132 States it so.
Now, if you cannot read. Then, the more condemned you may be at the last day./
Anonymous | 10:15 p.m. July 10, 2008
to crybabies: How about the law of the land against polygamy?
Get it straight F?LDS | 10:17 p.m. July 10, 2008
Do I hear ringing in my ears or what? ....FALSE PROPHETS! Doesn't the bible
speak of them as well? Any way Buster,...no such doctrine. Brigham Young I
understand had other people writing his malarkey down within his journals. So
who's to say what he really said and who wrote what?
To Freedom of Religion: | 10:22 p.m. July 10, 2008
The LDS church does not teach that people are going to hell. It's a lot
nicer than that..it teaches that most people are going to a far better place and
that there are degrees. Good, Better, Best.
To: To David 6:08 | 10:32 p.m. July 10, 2008
Yes, LDS mormons study the old testament and new testament devoting a year to
each in sunday school classes.
To Poster 1:55 | 10:38 p.m. July 10, 2008
My great great grandmother and her sister were older women not in their teens
who were the second and third wives.
To: To: David 6:08 | 10:51 p.m. July 10, 2008
I would respectfully say that if indeed the Bible is taught in your sunday
classes that the content needs to be reviewed. I see nothing Christian from the
LDS comments nor actions of the brethren and the crutch is always on the Book of
Mormon; again this is why Christians will never accepted mormons who claim to be
Christians.
To To To: david 6:08 10:51 | 11:24 p.m. July 10, 2008
Pres. Monson is the dearest person, visiting the aged and ill in his younger
years and all the brethren testifying of the divinity of Christ and sending
relief supplies all over the world to help in times of disaster. We LDS and all
others who believe in Christ and try to do His work and His will are indeed
Christians. I will hope that you are Christian enough to allow me to call
myself a Christian...otherwise, it really hurts me. Thank you
To: To: To: David 10:51 | 11:44 p.m. July 10, 2008
I don't want to be rude to you, but we really study the bible for two years
and the Book of Mormon for one year and we study about Christ, His life, His
miracles, His example and His love for all mankind. I sure feel like a
Christian, and try to contribute to Christ's cause and the church and
brethren are concerned with sending relief supplies and help whenever there is a
disaster anywhere in the world to help any soul in need.
How many teachings | 8:30 a.m. July 11, 2008
That "prophets" used to practice do we continue today? Not too many.
Polygamy is like that. It was a mistake is a mistake and will always be. And
the LDS (or whomever) can believe what they want about heaven, but most of us
believe this is ridiculous for heaven too!
reply to justathought | 11:04 a.m. July 11, 2008
Just recently that has changed now a man/woman must be divorced in the eyes of
the church to be sealed to someone else. If I am wrong, call me on it.
obama republican | 11:07 a.m. July 11, 2008
"john lambert" when mobs were killing mormons in the 1800's they
did not care if they listened to Sidney Rigdon, Brigham Young or any of the
other leaders after JS death.
All they cared about is if they believed in the golden bible.
If someone uses the BOM as there main source of enlightenment, they should be able to call themselve mormon!
All they cared about is if they believed in the golden bible.
If someone uses the BOM as there main source of enlightenment, they should be able to call themselve mormon!
John Lambert | 12:24 p.m. July 11, 2008
To Freedom of Religion,
Was your Dad FLDS? Not all polygamists sects are FLDS, so what is said about them does not apply to the AUB, TLC or Kingston Group among others. Even at that, the fact is that the current marriage practices of the FLDS are a new innovation.
Lastly, stop putting words in my mouth. I have said nothing about brainwashing. What I was alluding to is that the FLDS do not allow courting or dating and instead Jeffs tells people who they should marry.
Was your Dad FLDS? Not all polygamists sects are FLDS, so what is said about them does not apply to the AUB, TLC or Kingston Group among others. Even at that, the fact is that the current marriage practices of the FLDS are a new innovation.
Lastly, stop putting words in my mouth. I have said nothing about brainwashing. What I was alluding to is that the FLDS do not allow courting or dating and instead Jeffs tells people who they should marry.
John Lambert | 12:38 p.m. July 11, 2008
To Obama Republican,
When did mobs ever kill followers of Joseph Smith III? If you read Dr. Britsch's history of the LDS Church in the pacific you will learn that the RLDS people were often the most vocal and virolent critics of the LDS Church.
Anyway, I think you misunderstand the position of both the LDS church and other churches that claim to originate with Joseph Smith. The Book of Mormon is not the main source of enlightenment, it is one of the four standard works. Beyond this, as was said by Ezra Taft Benson among others the most important prophet for us is the living prophet.
The Book of Mormon makes no reference to baptism for the dead, the three degrees of glory and many other doctrines. There are fewer references to man's future potential of advancement in the Book of Mormon than in the Bible. There is no mention of the Melchesidek Priesthood. The only priesthood offices ever mentioned are those of priest and teacher.
The Book of Mormon is important and visible and powerful, but there is more than it needed for the church to operate.
When did mobs ever kill followers of Joseph Smith III? If you read Dr. Britsch's history of the LDS Church in the pacific you will learn that the RLDS people were often the most vocal and virolent critics of the LDS Church.
Anyway, I think you misunderstand the position of both the LDS church and other churches that claim to originate with Joseph Smith. The Book of Mormon is not the main source of enlightenment, it is one of the four standard works. Beyond this, as was said by Ezra Taft Benson among others the most important prophet for us is the living prophet.
The Book of Mormon makes no reference to baptism for the dead, the three degrees of glory and many other doctrines. There are fewer references to man's future potential of advancement in the Book of Mormon than in the Bible. There is no mention of the Melchesidek Priesthood. The only priesthood offices ever mentioned are those of priest and teacher.
The Book of Mormon is important and visible and powerful, but there is more than it needed for the church to operate.
And so more was created | 1:14 p.m. July 11, 2008
I believe that more was "created" rather than inspired. So do many
other people! There are many that feel that the words of the Bible (maybe the
BOM) are enough. Everyone has a right to their opinions and self respect....so
give others their rights rather than always trying to convert them to the
"one, true church". We do not agree! Polygamy is just one example as
to how this is showing that the things the J.S. said are not all true to many
people.
Hal | 6:00 p.m. July 11, 2008
I have talk to others who post and if anything is ever posted negative on
B-Young it never gets posted. Now that means the truth is hidden. Very strange?
Excuse me.. | 6:44 p.m. July 11, 2008
Excuse me but The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the only church
with the original authority and keys given that were given to Joseph Smith. The
other folks were removed from the church and the authority was not and is not
among them. You can not reorganize what you don't have and can't
have.
To: Excuse me.. | 6:56 p.m. July 11, 2008
Could you please explain to me these so called keys you have. Since you all feel
the need to worship in private it is a little confusing. Your little club is
pretty funny and I wish you could open your mormon covered eyed and see it from
the outside looking in. Good luck with the priesthood authority thing as it does
not amount to a hill of beans with Christians nor Jesus Christ himself.
Anonymous | 8:12 p.m. July 11, 2008
Good question. Who had these so called "keys" in the first place? How
do you know if a person has them? How are they passed on? How do you know if
they have been passed on to another person or not?
Some claim that the "keys" of the priesthood were held by Sidney Rigdon. Others say Oliver Cowdery had the keys of the priesthood. Still others say Joseph Smith III had the keys.
Why is this dispute over keys in the history of the LDS and related Churches different than the dispute Mormons claim created an "apostasy" in the early Christian church? Seems like the same thing to me.
Think of it in the big picture. Imagine 500 years from now when the Bickertonites are a massive Church of 950 million members, and the LDS Church (of Utah) is still muddling around at around 5 million active members. Then it will be just like the original Christian history--within only 200 years of Jesus, the gnostics appeared to be the ones winning the debate! But then after 1000 years, it was someone else, then the big split happened, and a bunch of minor splits...
Wow! it boggles the mind. Cool...
Some claim that the "keys" of the priesthood were held by Sidney Rigdon. Others say Oliver Cowdery had the keys of the priesthood. Still others say Joseph Smith III had the keys.
Why is this dispute over keys in the history of the LDS and related Churches different than the dispute Mormons claim created an "apostasy" in the early Christian church? Seems like the same thing to me.
Think of it in the big picture. Imagine 500 years from now when the Bickertonites are a massive Church of 950 million members, and the LDS Church (of Utah) is still muddling around at around 5 million active members. Then it will be just like the original Christian history--within only 200 years of Jesus, the gnostics appeared to be the ones winning the debate! But then after 1000 years, it was someone else, then the big split happened, and a bunch of minor splits...
Wow! it boggles the mind. Cool...
Freedom of Religion | 10:34 p.m. July 11, 2008
To John Lambert
Nobody knows better than me that all the polygamist groups are different. My gramps was a member of the FLDS church, God rest his soul.
John Lambert said:
". . . .Jeffs tells people who they should marry."
No, Jeffs suggest who should get married, just like the LDS church suggest that young men should go on a mission, and families should be sealed in the temple. Nobody is forced to do these, and nobody gets excommunicated for not doing them.
I never said you had claimed the FLDS were brainwashed. I merely suggested you don't go down that route.
Nobody knows better than me that all the polygamist groups are different. My gramps was a member of the FLDS church, God rest his soul.
John Lambert said:
". . . .Jeffs tells people who they should marry."
No, Jeffs suggest who should get married, just like the LDS church suggest that young men should go on a mission, and families should be sealed in the temple. Nobody is forced to do these, and nobody gets excommunicated for not doing them.
I never said you had claimed the FLDS were brainwashed. I merely suggested you don't go down that route.
Anonymous | 10:47 p.m. July 11, 2008
And by the way, Warren Jeffs is a true prophet and a darn good man.
Keys | 10:57 p.m. July 11, 2008
Bickertonites... A Tiny little church in the South.
Rigdon.. lost authority. Joseph Smith III was not ordained to the priesthood and didn't have the authority and was a little boy when his father was killed.
Rigdon.. lost authority. Joseph Smith III was not ordained to the priesthood and didn't have the authority and was a little boy when his father was killed.
Defending Warren Jeffs? | 10:10 a.m. July 12, 2008
Shame on you. He has hurt many women/girls and broken many laws. Your
"true colors" are coming out now. Guess you want to go down in style,
but we know you now.
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