Deseret News | Pac-10 will snub BYU, Utah

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Dick Harmon: Pac-10 will snub BYU, Utah

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Re: The real reason | 11:33 a.m. July 9, 2008

"Imagine a conference with two teams with the same mascot! Outrageous! The Pac-10 would be the laughingstock of the NCAA. You can't have Cougs and Cougars in the same conference."

Like say the SEC with:

The LSU Tigers and the Auburn Tigers

AND

The Georgia Bulldogs and the Mississippi State Bulldogs

Missing the BIG PICTURE | 11:54 a.m. July 9, 2008

These folks that compare the performance of "todays MWC teams" in a new future conference,(Say PAC-12), should turn on the headlights and look into the future. It is referred to as the dynamics of change and includes impacts of improved recruiting and the money afforded due to the change.

Scheduling? BYU and the MWC should eliminate playing teams that seat less than 30,000 fans.
Wyoming and CSU to the WAC, ASU and AZ back to the MWC. Get a REAL BOWL $$$ set up for the MWC Champ!
Set up a playoff game with the WAC.

BYU Insider | 12:18 p.m. July 9, 2008

Guess where the BYU athletic director is today? He is in Dallas, TX. Dallas, TX is the headquarters for the BIG 12.

Coincidence? I don't think so.

Comments continue below

Rich | 12:18 p.m. July 9, 2008

BYU is full of lame students. I know because I was one at a very low point in my life. Provo is the most boring place in the world, and the school does not allow for creativity and free thought.
I am sorry to say it but BYU is in no way shape or form ever going to be part of a progressive organization like the PAC 10.
I know this with every fiber of my being.

What's all this talk | 12:52 p.m. July 9, 2008

I just read this comment that BYU should play in an independent schedule. WHAT! What product are you guys talking about? Let's not get carried away now guys. BYU is an average team with a lousy TV schedule and a poor game schedule. And after that they end up in a lousy bowl. YOu guys need to face reality and be happy with what you got.

Objective Outsider | 12:54 p.m. July 9, 2008

The idea that BYU and Utah would be as good as OSU or WSU does not add up. The OSU baseball program is as good as any program in any sport in the nation. Not to mention both schools have earned BSC bowl games and WSU basketball is a player on the national scene. BYU and Utah have had their successes, but a few wins against teams in the PAC 10 does not earn an invitation into the league. Using this line of reasoning would tell you that Toledo belongs in the Big Ten or East Carolina belongs in the ACC. BYU and Utah fit right where they are.

your on the outside | 12:55 p.m. July 9, 2008

Why are you guys mad at the PAC 10? Put the shoe on the other foot would you want BYU and UTah in your conference. They aren't geographically on the pacific coast, they have a very limited fan base. This would only favor those 2 schools that haven't even won consistently in the one of the worst conf. in America. the PAC 10 wont' change and is perfect the way it is. Someone was posting how that conf. is pathetic, are you serious? You have Whyoming and New mexico, UNLV and SDSU in your conference. Enough said.

RE: PAc 10 alumnus | 1:00 p.m. July 9, 2008

THank you! THat's it! couldn't said it better.

BYU EGO's | 1:03 p.m. July 9, 2008

What's up with ego's BYU football fans. YOu guys don't get it. YOu think your program every year is this superior program, when it's not. I am member of the church but hate hearing these utah born.bred byufoobtallreligon comments. Be happy with what you got and know your place in the realm of college football.

not every LDS person | 1:09 p.m. July 9, 2008

is a BYU football fan. YOu can't give me real statistics as far as a national fan base goes.
1. FIrst not every member is a football fan.
2. Not every member is a BYU fan.

I think your stating this just because the whole state of utah practically follows BYU football like some cult and you presume it must be like this elsewhere too.

BYU FOOTBALL | 1:10 p.m. July 9, 2008

IT IS WHAT IT IS

done!

4th place in pac 10 ... | 1:17 p.m. July 9, 2008

A 4th place finish in the PAC10 would be much better than winning the worthless MWC. BYU and Utah would get to play home games against current Pac10 opponents which would be much better than any Vegas Bowl. The problem both BYU and Utah face is that they both reside in the state of Utah which is simply too small population wise to support big time college athletics. The Arizona schools made the jump back in the 70's but Phoenix is about twice the size of Salt Lake. I doubt BYU or Utah will ever make the jump to the Pac 10. Boise State would be another candiate but being from Idaho pretty much dooms Boise.

Great Students | 1:34 p.m. July 9, 2008

BYU and Utah are full of great students. I know this because I've been one of them during one of the more exciting times of my life. Utah and Salt Lake Valley are two of the best places in the world to live.

There is no way BYU and Utah would ever want to be part of the look-down-your-noses, elistist, snobbery of a backwards-thinking organization like the PAC 10.

Deep down,

I know this with every fiber of my being.

knows Pac-10 football | 1:58 p.m. July 9, 2008

The writer is correct that the Pac-10 two schools (OSU and WSU) should be replaced.

WSU and OSU basically are the poor relations of Washington and Oregon. Neither have the resources to stay competitive in the Pac-10 and the gap between them is growing.

The real question about BYU and Utah is, can they match the sorts of money USC, UCLA, Cal, Stanford, ASU, Oregon and Washington can generate? Arizona is in the same predicament Oregon State and Washington State are in, but it has such a prominent basketball presence that it will never leave the Pac-10.

RE: "Your on the outside" | 2:22 p.m. July 9, 2008

This guy must have gone to WSU or OSU. Seeing as how he used "your" instead of "you're" and misspelled Wyoming by throwing an H in there. People talk about academics at Utah and BYU as not being up to par? Plus, anyone who uses the phrase "enough said" should immediately lose all credibility.

Packing a punch | 2:48 p.m. July 9, 2008

Non-BCS teams can still pack a big punch

NBC Sports says BYU, Utah top threats to be this year's Hawaii.

"Don't be surprised if in the next 10 years, the BCS finds itself opening doors wider and wider to accommodate schools, primarily those currently in the Mountain West Conference (MWC) and Western Athletic Conference (WAC), who are every bit as potent as the traditional powers."

"Six of the past 14 NFL MVPs played at one of the 52 non-BCS FBS schools (Steve Young, BYU; Brett Favre (3), Southern Miss; Marshall Faulk, San Diego State; and LaDainian Tomlinson, TCU)."

The Texan | 3:14 p.m. July 9, 2008

I'm here in BIG 12 country. It's funny reading all of these posts about the PAC 10 and the Mountain West Conference.

The BIG 12 doesn't have any of these squabbles with any other conference.

And yes, we have heard the rumours and gossip about BYU replacing Baylor and joining our conference.

From what I have seen, BYU would definately be a better choice for the BIG 12 than Baylor. BYU would bring in much more money than Baylor.

The only issue I can see about BYU joining the BIG 12 would be not playing on Sunday. However, the BIG 12 seems to be a little more understanding of religious differences than the "liberal" PAC 10.

Better Fit | 3:34 p.m. July 9, 2008

BYU would be a much better fit in the Big 12. Utah would fit in better with the PAC 10.

There's no need for BYU and Utah to remain in the same conference to continue their rivalry.

Iowa-Iowa State
Florida-Florida State
Georgia-Georgia Tech
Kentucky-Louisville

to name just a few, are all teams from the same state, but in different conferences, who have maintained their rivalries.

Re: not every LDS person | 1:09 | 3:53 p.m. July 9, 2008

Conversely, not every BYU football fan is LDS.

But, there is a substantial fan base of BYU football fans in California, Arizona, Nevada and other places outside Utah.

BYU had over 15,000 fans (filled the entire end zone) at the USC game a few years ago -- most of them did not come from Utah. Arizona sold out their game against BYU two years ago with a huge block of BYU fans, most of them from Arizona.

BYU regularly draws large contingents of fans to games at San Diego St., UNLV and TCU. Most of those fans are local to the area.

this is lame | 4:05 p.m. July 9, 2008

who cares?

CBeavs | 4:17 p.m. July 9, 2008

I didn't realize that BYU or Utah had won two national championships in baseball recently. Maybe they reversed last year's football score between OSU and Utah so Utah won???? Poorly researched comments and obviously another wannabe journalist..Don't waste your time reading second rate writing from this person in the future.

Re: To keep dreaming... | 4:51 p.m. July 9, 2008

You are proud of beating UCLA on a lucky blocked FG. A UCLA team that shouldn't have even been in a bowl game should have beat the MWC champ.
BYU lost to them last year in the regular season, and this year they will beat BYU.
This story is almost as funny as those that think Utah and BYU will be undefeated when they meet!!!
BYU will lose 2 + games even with their cupcake schedule.

fusillade | 5:50 p.m. July 9, 2008

BYU and Boise State with some more winning seasons would make good PAC10 candidates, but they need a decade of quality play to start meeting the hefty demands of an elitist PAC10 governing body. Consequesntly things will remains at the status quo. Anyways, BYU would not go with out Utah, and Utah needs long term BCS bowl success to qualify. That is unlikely in the current system.

I'd like to see a Division 1A playoff. That would make this whole point moot.

re:Re: To keep dreaming... | 6:02 p.m. July 9, 2008

Sure. And Utah will score against UNLV, and Joe Glenn won't give Coach Kyle the bird this year.

All of this "Lucky" talk is getting old. A blocked field goal is not luck, if anything it is evidence of extreme "HEART" and "EFFORT". It shows a team that doesn't give up just because the chips are down (Utah defense -- are you reading any of this?)

Hall to Collie's 4th and 18 was not luck. It was a play BYU called effectively throughout the year, accounting for a touchdown vs. CSU. If the Utah coaches had watched the video, they would have known and put in coverage against it.

BYU still had to complete the drive, and Unga ran up the middle 10 yards through Utah's "Charmin" Red Zone defense.

Beck to Harline, if someone from Utah had been within 20 yards of Harline, the play would never had happened.

BYU's only luck is that the Utes hired a Defensive Coordinator as head coach who doesn't understand how to play defense.

As soon as you poor little Ute Fans realize that your team loses it's heart playing to a half-empty stadium, you'll be able to get on with your lives.

re:Re: To keep dreaming... | 6:06 p.m. July 9, 2008

"A UCLA team that shouldn't have even been in a bowl game".

And Pitt deserved to be in the Fiesta Bowl the night of your greatest glory???

But now you can all say that one year, you ended up ranked #6 in the NATION, with a Mythical "Bowl Buster" trophy.

"We're #6, We're #6!!!"

It just doesnt have the same ring to it as "We're #1, We're #1!!!" now does it?

I'll bet the Red Sweatshirts and Popov are flying off the shelves right now as I am typing.

Go Utes, Go reality!!!

Just Evidence | 6:20 p.m. July 9, 2008

These posts are just evidence that BYU needs to cut the cord between them, and the University of Utah Athletic Program that BYU has carried for the past 40 years.

Utah brings nothing to the table, and more often than not the Utah team's only real game the fans have even cared about was BYU.

The MWC is the "black hole" of football, carried by BYU. The only reason DirecTV picked up the MTN was because there are so many BYU fans around the country. Raise your hand if you think it was the Utah fans making all of those calls.

Any conference BYU ends up at will see an increase of interest immediately. The same cannot be said for Utah. If BYU and their fanbase leave the MWC, the conference will lose Comcast and DirecTV, and fold within five years.

Let's see if Utah can stand on their own. If BYU left, and did not agree to a home and home with Utah, you would see more tumbleweeds in RES than red sweatshirts.

Face it Ute Fans, you need us more than we need you.

You better be nice to BYU, or your main rival will be Weber State.

re:BYU EGO's | 1:03 p.m. | 6:32 p.m. July 9, 2008

Why does it matter what church you attend?

What does that have to do with anything?

Why was it necessary to include that in your post?

Why not include your race, or your gender?

Does it give you any extra objectivity to be a "wild rebellious" Ute Fan. Being a fan of BYU is not part of the LDS doctrine, although it is nice to go to a sporting event in the United States where they don't have beer on tap.

Go to whatever church you want, cheer for whatever football team you choose, no one cares.

BYU has the better athletic program, whether you are LDS or not.

re: Re: To keep dreaming | 7:14 p.m. July 9, 2008

BYU fans are so hurt that they weren't the first BCS buster (or ANY BCS buster for that matter) that they still cling to an undefeated season almost a quarter century ago as their claim to supremacy. When Ute fans remind them who owns the all-time record in the series, cougar fans always say, "...but that was too long ago". Nevermind that none of the current players were even alive in 1984.

Cougar fans are also so jealous that the '04 Utes' season was LEGITIMIZED by a relatively COMPETITIVE schedule (as opposed to the cupcakes THEIR team faced 20 yrs earlier), and the sheer DOMINANCE the Utes demonstrated over their opponents (as opposed to the number of opponents THEIR team had to squeak past) that they cling to Utah's REGULAR season-ending "BCS" ranking (there IS no POST-season BCS ranking) of #6, since that is the lowest value they could assign. They know full well the Utes finished the AP and Coaches poll at #5 PRIOR to the Fiesta Bowl, and moved up to #4 thereafter, just as they know that had OK or WA played as soft a schedule as the cougars, BYU wouldn't have defaulted to #1.

Woody | 9:47 p.m. July 9, 2008

sbc, I didn't say Arizona had a better medical school than UCLA, and BYU has the Marriott School of Business, one of the finest in the country. Utah does have a great cancer center, but I would rank Arizona overall with more colleges with higher rankings. I lived in Arizona for 38 years, just recently moving away. I said Utah and BYU are fine universities, but I still think Arizona would overall rank ahead of either. Go Wildcats!

re:re: Re:Tokeepdreaming | 7: | 9:56 p.m. July 9, 2008

You nailed it. BYU is jealous of not being the first "BCS BUSTER" (not a real term, something to keep #6 Utes happy) that we must "cling" to just a National Championship and our #1 ranking. (BCS rankings, now there's something legitimate). Face it, you finished the year #6-- wow.

Poor us cougs.

How difficult was your schedule '04 again?

How difficult was your season again last year? Third in the MWC? Are you now an official "3RD
IN MWC BUSTER's?"

Score on UNLV (sheer DOMINANCE), and then talk smack.

Learn to cover recievers, and then talk smack.

Give your coach an opportunity to earn some respect in the MWC, before you look for National Respect, you can't even earn it in the "Des News". Read what sites like ESPN say about Bronco and Kyle, then talk smack.

Til then, you are wannabes with heavy "Little Brother Syndrome", wannabe where BYU's been.

Correcting the Record | 10:15 p.m. July 9, 2008

FYI--BYU beat ND at ND and Lou Holtz was the coach...Jamaal Willis had the big day, ran for about 130 yards and a couple of scores if my memory serves me...

BYU's best road wins in history are probably vs. Texas A and M in 1978 (the Aggies were much better than), UCLA in 1983 w/Steve Young(Bruins much, much better back then), PITT in 1984 (Pitt was bad that year but ranked #3 at the time which catapulted BYU's National Championship season). BYU has had some near misses of note vs. Georgia in 1982 (probably got screwed by the refs/Georgia returning national champs led by Herschel Walker) but as you can see BYU's road wins against national powerhouses are a bit lacking...the ND game was in the mid 1990's...

In reality BYU/Utah if they played their cards right could be above average in football in the PAC (third to fifth placeish) and every once in a while contend for the confernce title. Utah a couple of years back probably would have lost to USC but the Trojans would have had to work hard and many of the BYU teams of the early 1980's would hang tough...

RE: Name Change | 10:47 p.m. July 9, 2008

Hey smarty pants, why don't you look at a map. Not all Pac-10 schools are on the coast. Phoenix/Tempe is pretty much due south of Salt Lake and Tucson is actually east of Salt Lake.

re:RE:Name Change | 11:09 p.m. July 9, 2008

Please don't use the term smarty pants. You are only giving Ute fans permission to "go all second grade" on all of our behinds.

Paperboy | 12:37 a.m. July 10, 2008

Utahns enjoy conspiracy theories. Sorry, no conspiracy here. H**l will freeze over before Utah schools will be admitted to the Pac-10. End of story; end of debate. Get over it. Second thought; maybe it's a real possibility...at the time when Jesus decends on the earth at his 2nd coming. As ruler of the earth, Jesus will simply dictate that the Pac-10 admit all Utah schools to the conference.

It's Not All About U, BYU fans | 12:49 a.m. July 10, 2008

The reason the PAC-10 isn't going to be the PAC-12 any time soon is because they have no reason to add to their conference. None.

BYU and Utah don't being any more money. They don't bring a big market. They don't bring added respectability or prestige. They don't help the PAC-10 better counter the SEC or the Big-12.

There's no compelling reason for the PAC-10 to add Utah and BYU and more than a few reasons why they wouldn't want to.

Stop the inane chatter already!

You wanna talk money | 8:10 a.m. July 10, 2008

What school changes it's colors just to sell more merchandice. You guessed it, BYU!. So don't talk about the PAC 10 being greedy and only caring about money!. I haven't seen UCLA changing their powder blue, to Navy Blue.

Re: dreaming | 7:14 p.m. | 8:20 a.m. July 10, 2008

"had OK or WA played as soft a schedule as the cougars, BYU wouldn't have defaulted to #1."

You conveniently ignored the fact that the very next season, 1985, BYU pummeled that same supposedly superior Washington team, 31-3.

BYU's 1984 team did all that can be expected of a team.

They beat every team they played.

They finished the previous season ranked #7 in both polls with an 11-1 record. They started the 1984 season beating the #3 ranked Pitt Panthers on the road. They finished the season on a 24-game winning.

In 1985, they beat Washington, 31-3, and lost close games to UCLA, 24-27, and Ohio State (Citrus Bowl), 7-10. (Bosco played most of the season with a shoulder separation, which was a factor in the 3 passes that were intercepted and returned for TD's in their 3 losses.)

BYU's 7-year record (1979-1985) surrounding their 1984 National Championship was 66-11 (86%).

All four starting quarterbacks -- Marc Wilson, Jim McMahon, Steve Young and Robbie Bosco -- went on the play in the NFL, with two of them leading their teams to Super Bowl wins.

1984 was no fluke. BYU was fully capable of beating ANY team in the country.

True Blue & White | 8:36 a.m. July 10, 2008

BYU's uniforms had varied from team-to-team, from year-to-year, because nobody had decided on what specific shade of blue to use.

A marketing survey showed that most fans preferred a darker shade of blue to a lighter shade of blue. So BYU chose to adopt the darker shade of blue as the standard for all teams.

The ONLY people who have a problem with that are a few of the old-timers at BYU who liked the lighter shade of blue, and some of our friends up north who are suffering from a slight case of little-brother syndrome.

TS | 8:34 a.m. July 10, 2008

the funny thing is the mention of "fairness" as if somehow the Pac-10 has some moral responsibility to extend membership to BYU and Utah. What about Boise St? Or teams in Nevada? Of course the Pac-10 isn't expanding to the utah teams because it is not in their best interest - that's what a conference does, protect the interests of its current members. BYU and Utah would only want in because of money and additional credibility - it isn't like these are natural Pac-10 schools that are being unfairly excluded.

And about those bowl wins - they were conference championship teams beathing 5th place teams. oooo, impressive. I also remember Ty Detmer's BYU team coming to Eugene in 1990 and getting whipped pretty good, if you want a cherry-picked argument.

Typical BcS - TS | 8:34 a.m. | 8:54 a.m. July 10, 2008

"And about those bowl wins - they were conference championship teams beathing 5th place teams. oooo, impressive."

Typical mentality of most BcS team fans. We won't play non-BcS teams at your place. We won't allow your best non-BcS teams to play our best BcS teams in a bowl.

Then, we'll use your non-BcS team losses at our place, to prove our superiority. And we'll minimize your non-BcS team bowl wins over our BcS teams as illegitimate, because your team only beat a lower-echlon BcS team (even though, in our self-absorbed BcS minds, even our lower-echlon BcS teams are vastly superior to ANY non-BcS team.)

Stop and smell the BcS you're shoveling.

re: Re: To keep dreaming | 8:55 a.m. July 10, 2008

Re: dreaming | 7:14 p.m. | 8:20 a.m.

So BYU beat WA in 1985. So what? The '84 and '85 Huskie teams were DIFFERENT teams. Graduation takes its toll every year.

In 2002, the Utes finished 5-6. In 2003 they finished 10-2 (ranked #23). Those teams, separated by only 1 year...were DIFFERENT teams despite still being Utah. In 2004, the Utes finished 12-0 (ranked #4 and #5 in the AP and Coaches poll) with a large-margined victory over North Carolina. In 2005, they lost to the Tarheels, and finished 7-5, (unranked). They (UNC and Utah) too were DIFFERENT teams.

You have no point little sister.

Get Real!! | 8:59 a.m. July 10, 2008

without BYU in the last 40 years of WAC/MWC history, Utah would just be another Wyoming or Idaho.

Big Deal, Utah won the "Johnny-come-lately award in 2004"...Even a blind hog finds and acorn...Get it!!!

But have you been ranked 15 times, have you had the ESPN staff speechless with the come back victories and a legand on the sidelines...What'da say pilgram?

The vision of BYU Football developed the entire HS football Program in the State of Utah!!! The University of Utah owes it's "moment in the spot light" to the development of the states high school system.

A Fluke | 9:29 a.m. July 10, 2008

"In 2004, the Utes finished 12-0 (ranked #4 and #5 in the AP and Coaches poll) with a large-margined victory over North Carolina. In 2005, they lost to the Tarheels, and finished 7-5, (unranked). They (UNC and Utah) too were DIFFERENT teams."

You've proved your point; Utah 2004 was a one-hit-wonder, fluke.

BYU 1984, with 6 top 20 finishes in the surrounding 7 years, 7 conference championships, an overall 66-11 record (86%), and one National Championship, was legitimate.

FYI -- | 12:59 p.m. July 10, 2008

Two games this decade IN provo -- 2002 UNLV 24 byu 3; 2004 UNLV 24 BYU 20 (one of only two wins on the season for the Rebels). MEMO: PITT finished 3-7-1 in '84, unranked and bowlless; Arguably the worst Michigan team in their storied history ('84) -- you won by ONE touchdown!!

Re: A Fluke | 1:48 p.m. July 10, 2008

There is NO fluke in winning 11 of 12 games by 3 score margins. The fluke was Air Force losing by only 14.

In reviewing Utah's 5-yr record they've averaged over 9-wins/season. That demonstrates SOME sustainability.

BYU fans are the ONLY ones who don't believe there's an asterisk next to their '84 season. They're also the only ones who DO see one next to the Utes' '04 team.

Good thing nobody back East cares about BYU football. Otherwise, they would've watched last year's Las Vegas Bowl, and torpedoed the cougar's preseason hype.

Re: FYI | 2:16 p.m. July 10, 2008

Your analysis is very misleading.

The loss to UNLV in 2002 was by the worst BYU team (5-7) in almost 40 years. You have to go all the way back to 1970 to find a BYU team with a worse record (3-8).

The win over Michigan was accomplished with a quarterback who played the entire second half on an injured leg that he could barely stand on, let alone play quarterback against a swarming Michigan defense on. Robbie Bosco put on one of the gutsiest performances in NCAA bowl history in pulling out the win by one touchdown.

BYU finished the season on a 24-game winning streak. When was the last time Utah won 24 games in a row?

BYU would have been more than willing to play Oklahoma in a bowl game, but Oklahoma and the New Years bowls refused to make a deal to make it happen.

btw, Michigan 1967(4-6), 1965(4-6), 1963(3-4-2), 1962(2-7) and many other teams would probably be considered worse teams than the 1984 Michigan team that beat Miami(22-14)(ranked 14/1), Wisconsin(20-14)(16/-), Indiana(14-6)(14/-), Northwestern(31-0), Illinois(26-18), and Minnesota(31-7), and only lost to Big Ten champion/archrival Ohio State(6-21)(-/11) by TWO touchdowns; OSU lost to USC(20-17) in the Rose Bowl.

Ute's still don't get it !!! | 3:27 p.m. July 10, 2008

The Utes had a great coach in 2004, a real coach with the ability to teach players to play well
"above the rim." But now he lives in Gainesville, Florida theaching those guys the same tricks.

BYU had a coach that ran off the best runnibg back in the schools history, and drug in some new uniforms.

Times have changed, the cougars back on top and will be for a long time. Also, look for the Falcons to be back in the Top 20 where they belong.

Re: SOME sustainability | 3:31 p.m. July 10, 2008

"In reviewing Utah's 5-yr record they've averaged over 9-wins/season. That demonstrates SOME sustainability."

After years of mediocrity, Utah finally rediscovered how to play football. 9 wins a season for 5 years is a decent record

But, that record has to be tempered by the fact that it's the most wins Utah has had in a 5-year period, ever. In fact, Utah has only had 3 double-digit win seasons in their history, 2 of them during the last 5 years.

BYU has had 13 double-digit win seasons including the last 2 seasons and 3 in the last 7 years.

Utah has averaged 9 wins a season since 2003.
BYU has averaged 9 wins a season since 1976.

Beav in DC | 3:54 p.m. July 10, 2008

You're missing the point. Even if the Pac10 were to expand (why would they? things are perfect as it is), they wouldn't include BYU and Utah (maybe one or the other), but almost certainly Boise State and either Nevada or Fresno State. BTW, BYU and Utah over Oregon State and Wazzu? Are you kidding? How many national titles do BYU and Utah have? OSU baseball has won 2 national titles in the last three years, OSU football has 6 consecutive bowl wins and while basketball is awful lately they are the 13th most successful program ever. What a joke.

Re: Las Vegas Bowl | 3:56 p.m. July 10, 2008

"Good thing nobody back East cares about BYU football. Otherwise, they would've watched last year's Las Vegas Bowl, and torpedoed the Cougar's preseason hype."

They did watch the game and they voted BYU #14 in both polls after all of the bowls had been played.

No preseason hype needed from BYU fans. Sports fans, coaches, writers and prognosticators from across the country know what BYU is capable of doing this year.

The same people who think that Utah has a chance of having a pretty good year themselves.

BYU will be ranked in the top 15 to start the season.

Utah might slip into the top 25 to start the season, but will more likely be high in the list of other teams receiving votes.

No hype. Just the facts.

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