Reader comments
Dick Harmon: Pac-10 will snub BYU, Utah
324 comments | Read story
Anonymous | 7:52 p.m. July 7, 2008
I'd love to see ASU and Washington St. switch places in their conferences
with BYU and Utah and watch BYU and Utah thrive in the pac-ten. It all comes
down to money and anti-trust. If we were being funneled the big bucks and
scheduling the smaller schools to come to our places, it's a recipe for
success. the pac-ten is over rated. Once we align a few good schools from the
WAC into the MTN West, you've already got a conference equally as good as
the pac-ten and the BCS commissioner will be forced to bring them into the BCS.
It's inevitable that another power conference is looming in the western
states. We don't need the Pac-ten. They're old news!
David Stewart | 8:02 p.m. July 7, 2008
Darron wrote:
"A buddy of mine at work has a connection with a member of the University of Oklahoma's coaching staff. Recently, when the two were together, my friend asked this person for the current "rumors" in the program and conference. In response, the coach said the following:
1. Big 12 wants to replace Missouri and/or Baylor and add another member as its 12th team. Baylor and Missouri are not bringing in the revenue or adding any tangible benefit to the conference.
2. To replace Missouri and or Baylor, the Big XII is currently looking at two possibilities, one more likely than the other. First, the Big XII would prefer to have Arkansas, but considers it "unlikely" that it could lure it away from the SEC. The second and "more likely" scenario would be to invite BYU as Missouri/Baylor's replacement, which they believe BYU would accept."
My son is on the baseball team at Oklahoma State and recently told me the exact same thing. I really hope the BIG 12 takes a chance on BYU. In terms of revenue, the PAC 10 can't hold a candle to the BIG 12.
"A buddy of mine at work has a connection with a member of the University of Oklahoma's coaching staff. Recently, when the two were together, my friend asked this person for the current "rumors" in the program and conference. In response, the coach said the following:
1. Big 12 wants to replace Missouri and/or Baylor and add another member as its 12th team. Baylor and Missouri are not bringing in the revenue or adding any tangible benefit to the conference.
2. To replace Missouri and or Baylor, the Big XII is currently looking at two possibilities, one more likely than the other. First, the Big XII would prefer to have Arkansas, but considers it "unlikely" that it could lure it away from the SEC. The second and "more likely" scenario would be to invite BYU as Missouri/Baylor's replacement, which they believe BYU would accept."
My son is on the baseball team at Oklahoma State and recently told me the exact same thing. I really hope the BIG 12 takes a chance on BYU. In terms of revenue, the PAC 10 can't hold a candle to the BIG 12.
BIG 12 BABY!! | 8:10 p.m. July 7, 2008
Why would BYU even consider joining the PAC 10 when the BIG 12 has shown
interest in inviting them to their conference?
The BIG 12 brings in almost 3 times as much revenue as the PAC 10. Folks, it would take three PAC 10 Conferences to equal one BIG 12 Conference in terms of revenue.
It's a no-brainer!! Don't join the PAC 10, wait for the BIG 12!
The BIG 12 brings in almost 3 times as much revenue as the PAC 10. Folks, it would take three PAC 10 Conferences to equal one BIG 12 Conference in terms of revenue.
It's a no-brainer!! Don't join the PAC 10, wait for the BIG 12!
Comments continue below
The money's in Provo | 8:16 p.m. July 7, 2008
Any conference interested in improving its bottom line would be wise to add BYU.
They have a fan base built in all around the country. They average 65,000+
year in and year out. The Cougs bring a large contingency to bowl games as
well. BYU could replace a little sister in the Big 12 financially without
breaking a sweat.
Mike Harmer | 8:24 p.m. July 7, 2008
Some of the comments by Pac-10 exclusionists are silly. "BYU and Utah
can't compete with Pac-10 schools academically" and "BYU and Utah
can't play sports on the same level."
Yeah right! Take a close look at the student profiles at BYU and Utah...especially BYU. Having attended BYU as an undergrad, and then an Ivy League university for graduate school, I can tell you that this academic elitism stuff is bogus. BYU was lot more difficult than the Ivy League. I had to study twice as hard to get the same grades. And I'll tell you that Oregon State, Washington State, Washington, ASU, and Arizona are certainly nowhere close to Ivy League schools...just look at their admission statistics.
Now onto football and basketball, let's pull in many of those same schools (ASU, WSU, OSU) and you prove to me that those schools have superior football or basketball programs to BYU or Utah. I'm talking about wins, conference championships, national rankings, national championships, attendance, etc. Look in particular at BYU's football program and Utah's basketball program. Do the numbers say the three Pac-10 teams mentioned above are better?
The facts prove you wrong again.
Go home Pac-10 elitists.
Yeah right! Take a close look at the student profiles at BYU and Utah...especially BYU. Having attended BYU as an undergrad, and then an Ivy League university for graduate school, I can tell you that this academic elitism stuff is bogus. BYU was lot more difficult than the Ivy League. I had to study twice as hard to get the same grades. And I'll tell you that Oregon State, Washington State, Washington, ASU, and Arizona are certainly nowhere close to Ivy League schools...just look at their admission statistics.
Now onto football and basketball, let's pull in many of those same schools (ASU, WSU, OSU) and you prove to me that those schools have superior football or basketball programs to BYU or Utah. I'm talking about wins, conference championships, national rankings, national championships, attendance, etc. Look in particular at BYU's football program and Utah's basketball program. Do the numbers say the three Pac-10 teams mentioned above are better?
The facts prove you wrong again.
Go home Pac-10 elitists.
BYUCoug | 8:49 p.m. July 7, 2008
BYU and Utah would actually be better if they played in the Pac 12 ... and that
would be because of recruiting. How many times do the Cougs and Utes lose out in
the recruiting wars because they are not BCS schools? If they were able to have
the BCS label, they would be taken more seriously in the recruiting.
CC Member | 8:53 p.m. July 7, 2008
the only thing the PAC10 or BIG12 would get with BYU/UTAH joining their
conference is less money and less talent...how is that even a thought in our
minds?
GET OUT of the awful TV "deal" we are in...find the talent in our own state/area looked over by the biggies...beat the biggies...and our time will come!
GET OUT of the awful TV "deal" we are in...find the talent in our own state/area looked over by the biggies...beat the biggies...and our time will come!
Paul Johnson | 9:24 p.m. July 7, 2008
To the gentleman from Pullman, Washington (home of Washington State U), who said
that "maybe" Utah is comparable to WSU academically but that "BYU
is definitely not."
No disrespect sir, but I doubt even rabid Utah fans would back you up on that one. Utah is certainly a respectable school academically, but for at least the last 20 years BYU has been the superior academic school in the state of Utah. Of course I am speaking in general terms (there are exceptions). As a BYU grad I'm not saying this to brag, only to state the facts. BYU has far more rigorous entrance requirements than Utah and a much higher percentage of BYU students graduated in the top 10% of their high school classes. Also, BYU routinely places in the top 15 in the nation for number of National Merit Scholars matriculated. Again, not to brag, but only to demonstrate what you probably don't know hailing from outside Utah.
No disrespect sir, but I doubt even rabid Utah fans would back you up on that one. Utah is certainly a respectable school academically, but for at least the last 20 years BYU has been the superior academic school in the state of Utah. Of course I am speaking in general terms (there are exceptions). As a BYU grad I'm not saying this to brag, only to state the facts. BYU has far more rigorous entrance requirements than Utah and a much higher percentage of BYU students graduated in the top 10% of their high school classes. Also, BYU routinely places in the top 15 in the nation for number of National Merit Scholars matriculated. Again, not to brag, but only to demonstrate what you probably don't know hailing from outside Utah.
Woody | 9:44 p.m. July 7, 2008
I'm sorry, BYU and Utah are good institutions, but they don't measure
up academically to Arizona. While Arizona has one of the premier basketball
programs they also excel in academics. Arizona has a medical school, nursing
program, and one of the top ranked pharmacy programs in the US. Along with
astronomy, anthropology, and optics the academics are far ahead of either Utah
or BYU. Not many schools stack up with Stanford or Cal. Some of the schools in
the PAC-10 are just average academically, ie ASU. I would like to see a PAC-12,
but it is not going to happen.
Arizona Pharmacy 1972.
Arizona Pharmacy 1972.
To "Devil" | 9:49 p.m. July 7, 2008
Utah's 20 National Titles > asu's 17.
Utah does more with less! Utah only fields 17 sports, compared to asu's 22.
Side note: Stanford has the most titles, but they also field nearly 40 sports! Draw your own conclusions.
On Academics: Utah places AHEAD of Southern Cal, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, and yes ASU, in ARWU's Top 500 World Universities. (google it, as posting URL's are not allowed)
It's been a pleasure educating you asu fans. Good luck with BYU, you're going to get beat with or without your homer refs.
GO UTES!
Utah does more with less! Utah only fields 17 sports, compared to asu's 22.
Side note: Stanford has the most titles, but they also field nearly 40 sports! Draw your own conclusions.
On Academics: Utah places AHEAD of Southern Cal, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, and yes ASU, in ARWU's Top 500 World Universities. (google it, as posting URL's are not allowed)
It's been a pleasure educating you asu fans. Good luck with BYU, you're going to get beat with or without your homer refs.
GO UTES!
Devil | 10:25 p.m. July 7, 2008
Hey Ute fan try googling ASU national championships and you will find that ASU
has 136 national championships not 17. That would be more than 6 times the
number you claim Utah has. I am hoping that you learned to read as part of your
edumacation at Utah. Thanks for the "education" Ute fan but try doing
a little research and knowing what you are talking about before you post
something. By the way not only does the Pac-10 schools televise their games
locally but they have a major deal with abc and you can watch a high quality
Pac-10 game anytime you want. How about that great T.V. deal you got going Ute
fan. In fact living here in Utah I have more access to Pac-10 games than most
people do MWC games each week. Since many can't watch their own teams play
at least you can enjoy watching some real teams on Saturdays play some football.
And Ute fans you feel like you don't need the Pac-10 or any other
conference but the reality is you are stuck in a terrible conference (exept BYU)
with a terrible T.V. deal and you need all the help you can get!
Mark in Austin | 10:30 p.m. July 7, 2008
I agree with whats been posted that BYU & Utah arent even geographically Pac
10 schools.
....Neither are the 2 arizona schools. kick them out . . have them join the Mt West.
We dont need TCU - let the Big 12 have them.
My vision of the Mt. West would be; 10 schools.
BYU, Utah, Air force, Wyoming, Colorado, Colorado State, Arizona State, Arizona, New Mexico, Boise State
Pac-10 should take Hawaii, Fresno and UNLV
....Neither are the 2 arizona schools. kick them out . . have them join the Mt West.
We dont need TCU - let the Big 12 have them.
My vision of the Mt. West would be; 10 schools.
BYU, Utah, Air force, Wyoming, Colorado, Colorado State, Arizona State, Arizona, New Mexico, Boise State
Pac-10 should take Hawaii, Fresno and UNLV
Pac 10 Alumnus | 10:33 p.m. July 7, 2008
BYU and Utah are not worthy of Pac 10 play. They have good teams from time to
time BUT not on the level that is the Pac 10. They are are bush league!
re: Devil | 10:38 p.m. July 7, 2008
I don't need a TV deal to watch the local games...I can go there and watch
my Utes spank UCLA and whatever PAC 10 teams you throw our way...
GO BEN OLSEN!!! best player on our team...
GO BEN OLSEN!!! best player on our team...
re: To "Devil" | 10:40 p.m. July 7, 2008
I'm sorry, I don't trust an ARWU website that looks like a 12 year old
designed. For the real statistics, google: the center for measuring university
performance. Go to their top university rankings. You will find that byu is
nowhere to be found among top research universities and you will find every
Pac-10 school on the list, whether public or private. utah is listed behind 6
Pac-10 schools, and just one spot ahead of Arizona State.
Re: Pac 10 Alumnus | 10:40 p.m. July 7, 2008
I notice how you claim to be a Pac 10 alumnus but not from any particular
school. So did you go to Oregon St. or Washington St.?
BYUCoug | 10:51 p.m. July 7, 2008
Pac 10 Alumnus wrote:
"BYU and Utah are not worthy of Pac 10 play. They have good teams from time to time BUT not on the level that is the Pac 10. They are are bush league!"
Of course this is true. I heard a coach once say that the three keys to winning are: 1) Recruiting; 2) Recruiting; and 3) Recruiting. Pac 10 schools benefit from the BCS label. Put BYU and Utah in the same conference with the same bait to wave to their recruits and they will be better than they are now. They are already equal to the mid-tier teams of the Pac 10, at worst, and would therefore be regularly in the upper half of the conference standings, if they had a level recruiting playing field.
"BYU and Utah are not worthy of Pac 10 play. They have good teams from time to time BUT not on the level that is the Pac 10. They are are bush league!"
Of course this is true. I heard a coach once say that the three keys to winning are: 1) Recruiting; 2) Recruiting; and 3) Recruiting. Pac 10 schools benefit from the BCS label. Put BYU and Utah in the same conference with the same bait to wave to their recruits and they will be better than they are now. They are already equal to the mid-tier teams of the Pac 10, at worst, and would therefore be regularly in the upper half of the conference standings, if they had a level recruiting playing field.
Rich | 10:58 p.m. July 7, 2008
BYU would bring a whole new audience to Pac 10 football and increase TV
viewership nationwide, hence, raising revenues. Utah doesn't have the same
draw outside the Beehive State. For that reason I see BYU as a wise choice for
the Pac 10, but I can't see their ever choosing Utah. Each school could
make more money in athletics by inviting BYU to the party. Money talks. As for
competing in the Pac 10, BYU would be able to recruit more nationally coveted
recruits if it were in the Pac 10 and, therefore, would be competitive. The Y
is already quite competitive with the Pac 10, seldom getting blown out in any
sport.
BYU | 11:31 p.m. July 7, 2008
The Big 12 will never put up with the problems of scheduling BYU.
BYU is a big deal in the MWC.
They will be very average in the Big 12.
Why not stay in the MWC?
I don't see the ego's in Provo being able to handle middle of the pack finishes.
BYU is a big deal in the MWC.
They will be very average in the Big 12.
Why not stay in the MWC?
I don't see the ego's in Provo being able to handle middle of the pack finishes.
from time to time??? | 11:33 p.m. July 7, 2008
Uhh, BYU football is NOT good only from time to time. Try three losing seasons
in over 30 years.
sbc | 11:40 p.m. July 7, 2008
Woody; I live in Arizona and I don't think that U of A's Cancer
research can live up to U of U's. How about U of A's Law School
compared to BYU's or Utah's? This isn't even talking about
BYU's business school, dancing programs, or media programs. You see,
Universities are made up of a collection of Colleges. You will find a strength
of one college at a particular university and a strength for another college at
a different university. I don't think you will find the next greatest
Engineer coming out of Yale! I think MIT would be better for that. Oh, and I
would place UCLA's medical school above U of A's.
BYU Doesn't Need Utah | 11:44 p.m. July 7, 2008
It's so easy.
Stop saying BYU and Utah together.
Utah brings nothing to the table period. Their fanbase only show up for BYU games, otherwise, it sits 2/3rds empty for home games. The Anti-LDS love to hate the LDS-BYU, and scream if a student at a religous University doesn't go as far to give thanks for a win, but just for saying that good things happen to those who do things right on the field and off. (I mean, doesn't the Lord give blessings if you live as he asks?)
Yet, the anti-LDS hate this, BYU crawls under their anti-LDS-skins, and the most vulgar things are said about the cougars, their wives, their families, all trying to live a good life. Furthermore, for trying to live as the lord asks, they are called holier than thou.
Do we want to subject our fathers, mothers, wives, children to this type of abuse. Plaisted went to the NBA knowing he needed another year at BYU, but don't kid yourself, he went to protect his wife (read the previous years posts).
Cut the cord on the Little Brothers Up North. Send them to different conferences. They don't know how play well with others.
Stop saying BYU and Utah together.
Utah brings nothing to the table period. Their fanbase only show up for BYU games, otherwise, it sits 2/3rds empty for home games. The Anti-LDS love to hate the LDS-BYU, and scream if a student at a religous University doesn't go as far to give thanks for a win, but just for saying that good things happen to those who do things right on the field and off. (I mean, doesn't the Lord give blessings if you live as he asks?)
Yet, the anti-LDS hate this, BYU crawls under their anti-LDS-skins, and the most vulgar things are said about the cougars, their wives, their families, all trying to live a good life. Furthermore, for trying to live as the lord asks, they are called holier than thou.
Do we want to subject our fathers, mothers, wives, children to this type of abuse. Plaisted went to the NBA knowing he needed another year at BYU, but don't kid yourself, he went to protect his wife (read the previous years posts).
Cut the cord on the Little Brothers Up North. Send them to different conferences. They don't know how play well with others.
Fact check, DicK | 11:46 p.m. July 7, 2008
Mr. Harmon:
You cite the "chancellor at Washington" even though none exists. Mark Emert is the President of UW. Why is this significant? Because your story suggests the all-powerful presidents of the Pac 10 are the ones who make the decisions on expansion. This may be true, but you have to know who are presidents and who are chancellors. Your mis-use of appropriate offices and titles belies your misunderstanding of the issues the roles of those involved. The U of Cal system has chancellors.
You cite the "chancellor at Washington" even though none exists. Mark Emert is the President of UW. Why is this significant? Because your story suggests the all-powerful presidents of the Pac 10 are the ones who make the decisions on expansion. This may be true, but you have to know who are presidents and who are chancellors. Your mis-use of appropriate offices and titles belies your misunderstanding of the issues the roles of those involved. The U of Cal system has chancellors.
Anonymous | 11:50 p.m. July 7, 2008
Why on earth would the big 12 want to bring on other schools? Doesn't make
sense at all. BYU and Utah would be 8-4 on a great year in the Pac 10 or any
other conference. Sorry BYU and Utah getting up to play 1 or 2 big games a year
is different then running through a tough league like the pac 10 where any team
can better you. SEE Stanford VS USC. Sorry BYU you beat 2 sorry Pac 10 teams
that finished with crappy records in your bowl game. Sorry BYU and Utah I do
agree they should look at Boise State, Fresno State to join the league. Weather
or not that make them a BCS Conference or not I don't know but it should.
Why, Why, Y? | 12:21 a.m. July 8, 2008
Why would the Pac-10 take on new teams?
What's in it for them?
They'd have to give up money as Dickie H. says and what do they get in return from adding Utah and BYU?
Big media markets? No. And worse, BYU and Utah are in the same media market.
Access to vaunted recruits? No.
Winning traditions? Sure, but only in inferior leagues.
Academic excellence? Better than ASU, WSU and OSU; but on the balance, no.
High game attendence? Who cares?
We gotta assume that the PAC-10 commissioners are self-interested, so what's in it for them to invite Utah and BYU?
Not much.
What's in it for them?
They'd have to give up money as Dickie H. says and what do they get in return from adding Utah and BYU?
Big media markets? No. And worse, BYU and Utah are in the same media market.
Access to vaunted recruits? No.
Winning traditions? Sure, but only in inferior leagues.
Academic excellence? Better than ASU, WSU and OSU; but on the balance, no.
High game attendence? Who cares?
We gotta assume that the PAC-10 commissioners are self-interested, so what's in it for them to invite Utah and BYU?
Not much.
Jeremy | 12:40 a.m. July 8, 2008
To the person who says BYU doesn't need Utah you're embarrassing me as
a BYU fan.
"(I mean, doesn't the Lord give blessings if you live as he asks?)"
I seriously hope you're kidding, but I know you're not! There's plenty of poor sportsmanship going around on both sides, that's why it's such a fun rivalry. But to start acting like we're somehow being driven out of Nauvoo sounds very stepford and polygamist like. What if the Utes ended up going to the pac-ten and BYU didn't? And then they started getting recruits and beating the daylights out of us. Then they'll leave us alone won't they? Leave your religious convictions out of this!
"(I mean, doesn't the Lord give blessings if you live as he asks?)"
I seriously hope you're kidding, but I know you're not! There's plenty of poor sportsmanship going around on both sides, that's why it's such a fun rivalry. But to start acting like we're somehow being driven out of Nauvoo sounds very stepford and polygamist like. What if the Utes ended up going to the pac-ten and BYU didn't? And then they started getting recruits and beating the daylights out of us. Then they'll leave us alone won't they? Leave your religious convictions out of this!
To "Drevil" | 12:43 a.m. July 8, 2008
Taken directly from the NCAA website:
Utah:
Total NCAA Team Championships: 20
men's championships: 1
women's championships: 9
coed championships: 10
Breakdown by Sport:
men's basketball: 1
women's gymnastics: 9
coed skiing: 10
Arizona State:
Total NCAA Team Championships: 17
men's championships: 10
women's championships: 7
coed championships: 0
Breakdown by Sport:
men's baseball: 5
men's golf: 2
women's golf: 6
men's gymnastics: 1
men's outdoor track & field: 1
women's outdoor track & field: 1
men's wrestling: 1
Tell somebody else that might care about your 40 badminton titles (rolls eyes) or other Club/Intramurals sports.
Enjoy yourself watching "PAC 10" games. I feel pretty darn good about EVERY UTE football game but one that will be available in at least 14 million households. We have our own channel dedicated to MWC sports. It's the largest TV payout in conference history and it's not even 3 years old.
You know, without the population growth that the Phoenix metro area has had, you'd still be in our conference too. Plus, there are still many PAC 10 fans that wish it was still the PAC 8. (elitist scum)
Utah:
Total NCAA Team Championships: 20
men's championships: 1
women's championships: 9
coed championships: 10
Breakdown by Sport:
men's basketball: 1
women's gymnastics: 9
coed skiing: 10
Arizona State:
Total NCAA Team Championships: 17
men's championships: 10
women's championships: 7
coed championships: 0
Breakdown by Sport:
men's baseball: 5
men's golf: 2
women's golf: 6
men's gymnastics: 1
men's outdoor track & field: 1
women's outdoor track & field: 1
men's wrestling: 1
Tell somebody else that might care about your 40 badminton titles (rolls eyes) or other Club/Intramurals sports.
Enjoy yourself watching "PAC 10" games. I feel pretty darn good about EVERY UTE football game but one that will be available in at least 14 million households. We have our own channel dedicated to MWC sports. It's the largest TV payout in conference history and it's not even 3 years old.
You know, without the population growth that the Phoenix metro area has had, you'd still be in our conference too. Plus, there are still many PAC 10 fans that wish it was still the PAC 8. (elitist scum)
Anonymous | 1:05 a.m. July 8, 2008
PAC-10 won't take TDS due to games being played on Sunday.
re:Jeremy | 1:44 a.m. July 8, 2008
"(I mean, doesn't the Lord give blessings if you live as he
asks?)" Doesn't he???
Then bringing up Nauvoo, Stepford and polygamy -- calling names that have nothing to do with anything-- well, you embarass me.
The PAC-10 won't take Utah in a million years, but if they did, I would dance a jig at RES, because no one would be there (especially the Anti-LDS fans, because there is nothing for them to hate anymore). The Pac 10 is not going to bring in a team no one cares about.
Poor sportsmanship doe not make it a fun rivalry. Two teams that respect the other do.
BYU cutting ties with the U of U helps BYU.
And yes, all of the religous hatred against BYU makes going to a game unpleasant and tedious.
I took my 86 year old father to the past two BYU/Utah games and he is a huge BYU fan, but will never go to a BYU/Utah game again, because of the fans. I will never subject my wife or daughters to the Ute games.
Until they can show some respect and tolerance, I don't care where Utah goes, I just want them to go away.
Then bringing up Nauvoo, Stepford and polygamy -- calling names that have nothing to do with anything-- well, you embarass me.
The PAC-10 won't take Utah in a million years, but if they did, I would dance a jig at RES, because no one would be there (especially the Anti-LDS fans, because there is nothing for them to hate anymore). The Pac 10 is not going to bring in a team no one cares about.
Poor sportsmanship doe not make it a fun rivalry. Two teams that respect the other do.
BYU cutting ties with the U of U helps BYU.
And yes, all of the religous hatred against BYU makes going to a game unpleasant and tedious.
I took my 86 year old father to the past two BYU/Utah games and he is a huge BYU fan, but will never go to a BYU/Utah game again, because of the fans. I will never subject my wife or daughters to the Ute games.
Until they can show some respect and tolerance, I don't care where Utah goes, I just want them to go away.
Oh, and Jeremy | 2:05 a.m. July 8, 2008
Hey there babe, sorry, but I stand by everything on my post.
Utah brings nothing to the table, and as much as they hate the LDS school, they will never leave our side, because their hatred built 2/3rd of their fanbase.
And yes, the Lord does bless everyone on all teams that do what he asks us to do. If that really embarasses you, take it up with God, he's the one who said it.
And calling me stepford and polygamy (calling names) is a fools last line of defense when an arguement is lost.
Utah brings nothing to the table, and as much as they hate the LDS school, they will never leave our side, because their hatred built 2/3rd of their fanbase.
And yes, the Lord does bless everyone on all teams that do what he asks us to do. If that really embarasses you, take it up with God, he's the one who said it.
And calling me stepford and polygamy (calling names) is a fools last line of defense when an arguement is lost.
Anonymous | 7:08 a.m. July 8, 2008
For those above that have no clue regarding WSU's academic rankings...you
should check out US News and World Report. WSU is a tier 1 research university.
The party school reputation has long since disappeared. It is ranked among the
top 50 public universities and among the top 100 overall. Its academic standing
is higher than the Arizona and Oregon schools within the Pac 10.
ZEBA | 7:45 a.m. July 8, 2008
I think BYU should do what Notre Dame has mastered, and go independent. Sorry
Utes you don't have the fan base. No conf. affiliation and keep all the
bowl money.
Each year BYU could play 2-3 teams from the PAC10, WAC, and MWC. Then each year schedule some teams from CUSA, SEC, Big 10, ACC, Big 12, and Big East. This would be sweet.
The current state of the MWC is a joke, Conf. Champ goes to Vegas to play a 4th or 5th place PAC10?
Each year BYU could play 2-3 teams from the PAC10, WAC, and MWC. Then each year schedule some teams from CUSA, SEC, Big 10, ACC, Big 12, and Big East. This would be sweet.
The current state of the MWC is a joke, Conf. Champ goes to Vegas to play a 4th or 5th place PAC10?
ramper | 8:26 a.m. July 8, 2008
When we are talking about academic rankings are we talking about the school
overall or just the football and basketball players? Does everyone agree that
there is some "special treatment" at some schools?
Reality | 8:45 a.m. July 8, 2008
To: Anonymous | 7:08 a.m.
Academic rankings are something an educational institution can be proud of, but irrelevant when it comes to whether or not to expand an ATHLETIC conference. Expansion will be decided solely on whether it improves the financial bottom line of the conference teams.
To: ZEBA | 7:45 a.m.
Going independent would be a disaster for BYU. You might be able to schedule teams in different conferences in September, but scheduling them in October and November? Never going to happen.
Academic rankings are something an educational institution can be proud of, but irrelevant when it comes to whether or not to expand an ATHLETIC conference. Expansion will be decided solely on whether it improves the financial bottom line of the conference teams.
To: ZEBA | 7:45 a.m.
Going independent would be a disaster for BYU. You might be able to schedule teams in different conferences in September, but scheduling them in October and November? Never going to happen.
so | 8:58 a.m. July 8, 2008
so because BYU and Utah will be better than the bottom two programs in the Pac
10 we should add them..?
john hochhalter | 9:16 a.m. July 8, 2008
BYU and Utah BOTH have a great deal to offer, and are very strong academic
institutions. Mr. Harmon is ignorant of several things. I don't have the
time or room here to expound, but Mr. Harmon, and anyone else who doubts it,
would find that Oregon State (and I am confident Washington State) are VERY
strong academically, and I know OSU is highly recognized nationally in several
of their programs. Aside from the academics debate, lets talk athletics. Is
Harmon trying to say that BYU and Utah are stronger athletically than OSU??
Think again. Let's see - OSU - two national baseball championships in a
row, five (six?) straight bowl wins. Two years in a row finishing third in the
Pac-10 in football. PLEASE understand - I AM a BIG BYU fan. But I am also
realistic. Witness how BYU has struggled against UCLA and Arizona the past
couple of years. Neither of those schools have been good Pac-10 teams during
this time. Don't EVER think about diss'ing OSU or WSU, Mr. Harmon. It
sounds to me like you were doing more whining and feeling sorry for yourself
than any thing else.
Perhaps | 9:48 a.m. July 8, 2008
The Utes may have a shot if they could get the cold fusion thing figured out...
Sun Devil 4 ever | 9:53 a.m. July 8, 2008
I don't think the PAC-10 will be interested on universities whose only
sports fans support is football and basketball. PAC-10 is about a lot more
sports than those 2 and very good in wining national championships too
(baseball, softball, soccer, etc).
Pac 10 Alumnus | 10:10 a.m. July 8, 2008
USC TROJAN!
Reality | 10:13 a.m. July 8, 2008
Let's put the PAC 10 vs. the BIG 12 in persepective.
The University of Texas Longhorns, worth $102 million, was football's most profitable team last season, earning $66.2 million, of which $14.7 million went to academics. When the Longhorns play at home, Travis County sees an estimated $9.4 million of incremental spending associated with the game, a virtual tie with St. Joseph County during Notre Dame home games.
University of Texas merchandise royalties doubled to $18 million after the Longhorns won the national championship in 2006. Premium and club seating at Darrell K. Royal-Texas Memorial Stadium generates an additional $12 million a year.
The Longhorns alone, make almost as much as the entire PAC 10 Conference makes in one year. The PAC 10 sucks compared to the BIG 12. It's just a matter of time before BYU joins the BIG 12.
The University of Texas Longhorns, worth $102 million, was football's most profitable team last season, earning $66.2 million, of which $14.7 million went to academics. When the Longhorns play at home, Travis County sees an estimated $9.4 million of incremental spending associated with the game, a virtual tie with St. Joseph County during Notre Dame home games.
University of Texas merchandise royalties doubled to $18 million after the Longhorns won the national championship in 2006. Premium and club seating at Darrell K. Royal-Texas Memorial Stadium generates an additional $12 million a year.
The Longhorns alone, make almost as much as the entire PAC 10 Conference makes in one year. The PAC 10 sucks compared to the BIG 12. It's just a matter of time before BYU joins the BIG 12.
The Big Three | 10:16 a.m. July 8, 2008
July 3, 2008
The best combined football, basketball and baseball programs since 1974 (minimum 10 points per sport).
(source: Rivals.com)
1. Texas (60.5 football, 30 basketball, 122 baseball, 212.5 total points)
2. Florida State (111 football, 10 basketball, 79 baseball, 200 total points)
3. Oklahoma
4. LSU
5. North Carolina
6. Michigan
7. USC (101.5 football, 10 basketball, 56.5 baseball, 168 total points)
8. Florida
9. Alabama
10. UCLA (38 football, 79.5 basketball, 21 baseball, 138.5 total points)
11. Ohio State
12. Stanford (11 football, 21 basketball, 91.5 baseball, 123.5 total points)
13. Arizona (13.5 football, 56 basketball, 52 baseball, 121.5 total points)
14. Arkansas
15. Oklahoma State
16. Notre Dame
17. Georgia
18. Tennessee
19. Auburn
20. Georgia Tech
21. BYU (37.5 football, 13.5 basketball, 11.5 baseball, 62.5 total points) -- plus 3 NCAA Championships in men's volleyball regularly playing MPSF teams UCLA, USC and Stanford
22. North Carolina State
23. Houston
24. Missouri
No other teams listed.
BYU not deserving, when SIX PAC-10 schools aren't even listed???
Think again!
The best combined football, basketball and baseball programs since 1974 (minimum 10 points per sport).
(source: Rivals.com)
1. Texas (60.5 football, 30 basketball, 122 baseball, 212.5 total points)
2. Florida State (111 football, 10 basketball, 79 baseball, 200 total points)
3. Oklahoma
4. LSU
5. North Carolina
6. Michigan
7. USC (101.5 football, 10 basketball, 56.5 baseball, 168 total points)
8. Florida
9. Alabama
10. UCLA (38 football, 79.5 basketball, 21 baseball, 138.5 total points)
11. Ohio State
12. Stanford (11 football, 21 basketball, 91.5 baseball, 123.5 total points)
13. Arizona (13.5 football, 56 basketball, 52 baseball, 121.5 total points)
14. Arkansas
15. Oklahoma State
16. Notre Dame
17. Georgia
18. Tennessee
19. Auburn
20. Georgia Tech
21. BYU (37.5 football, 13.5 basketball, 11.5 baseball, 62.5 total points) -- plus 3 NCAA Championships in men's volleyball regularly playing MPSF teams UCLA, USC and Stanford
22. North Carolina State
23. Houston
24. Missouri
No other teams listed.
BYU not deserving, when SIX PAC-10 schools aren't even listed???
Think again!
ZEBA | 10:19 a.m. July 8, 2008
Reality | 8:45 a.m. July 8, 2008, said,
"Going independent would be a disaster for BYU. You might be able to schedule teams in different conferences in September, but scheduling them in October and November? Never going to happen."
Hmmm... reality is that BYU is in a crappy conference. I think I'd take my chances in trying to schedule in October and November. Couldn't be any worse than getting stuck with another Vegas Bowl with a crappy split conf. payout against 4th - 5th place Pac10 school.
Oh wait, I don't know if I could handle BYU not playing Wyoming. And just think if BYU left the MWC it would open a spot for Utah St. or Weber St. (take your pick, they have about the same talent, tho Weber won't jump up a division anytime soon).
captainbarky | 10:38 a.m. July 8, 2008
Top TV Markets in the US
2. Los Angeles
6. San Francisco Bay Area
13. Seattle
14. Phoenix
23. Portland
36. Salt Lake City/Provo
Why would the Pac 10 add 2 teams that would only bring the 36th biggest TV market? It has nothing to do with competiveness or academics. Why would Pac 10 schools vote to add 2 schools that would do very little for their bottom line? It's not like ABC is going to pony up huge sums of money for the right to televise Utah and BYU games.
2. Los Angeles
6. San Francisco Bay Area
13. Seattle
14. Phoenix
23. Portland
36. Salt Lake City/Provo
Why would the Pac 10 add 2 teams that would only bring the 36th biggest TV market? It has nothing to do with competiveness or academics. Why would Pac 10 schools vote to add 2 schools that would do very little for their bottom line? It's not like ABC is going to pony up huge sums of money for the right to televise Utah and BYU games.
T_H_R_O | 10:41 a.m. July 8, 2008
Sniff sniff, is that an INFERIORITY COMPLEX I smell? A wish to belong to
something prestigious, recognized and storied?
For one, we're about 600 friggin' miles from the 'P' in the PAC-10, a stretch if belonging to an organization based on geographical proximity (Tempe and Tuscon are each less than 350 miles, BTW, and share the same time zone for part of the year).
Two, the PAC-10 is known as the conference of champions, so Utah and BYU would be out of place.
For one, we're about 600 friggin' miles from the 'P' in the PAC-10, a stretch if belonging to an organization based on geographical proximity (Tempe and Tuscon are each less than 350 miles, BTW, and share the same time zone for part of the year).
Two, the PAC-10 is known as the conference of champions, so Utah and BYU would be out of place.
UMMMM? | 10:48 a.m. July 8, 2008
Tier 1 research school? So what? That should have nothing to do with this
discussion. USU is tier 1. Does that make them a contender for joining the
PAC-10? Of course not.
Bottom line for me is: Why does BYU even act interested? They'd just have the rest of the PAC angry because they won't play on Sundays. It wouldn't work. WOULDN'T. Bu that doesn't mean I don't think Utah shouldn't go if given the chance. It is not necessary for them to be in the same conference.
Bottom line for me is: Why does BYU even act interested? They'd just have the rest of the PAC angry because they won't play on Sundays. It wouldn't work. WOULDN'T. Bu that doesn't mean I don't think Utah shouldn't go if given the chance. It is not necessary for them to be in the same conference.
Washington Dawg | 10:54 a.m. July 8, 2008
I can see why BYU and Utah would be interesting in joining the Pac10. I
don't think money is the only driver for the Pac10 not being interested.
BYU would help in RPI for football and Utah perhaps for basketball but they
would drag it down overall. It is tough as they are similar programs to WSU and
OSU. BYU does seem to get more recognized by East Coast teams, explains why an
top 10 team won a National Championship when there were at least five teams
better who played a much stiffer schedule.
Might have made sense to add in the 80s but not now. Too hard to schedule USC and UCLA EVERY year for the teams that want to play them.
Might have made sense to add in the 80s but not now. Too hard to schedule USC and UCLA EVERY year for the teams that want to play them.
Anonymous | 11:14 a.m. July 8, 2008
BYU has the most dominant athletic department in the MWC (from top to bottom).
However that dominance would likely end. How would the Cougs (or Utes) do in
sports like baseball, track and field, swimming, tennis etc. in the PAC-10 which
is the dominant athletic conference in many of these sports?
Now onto the big picture. Let's get real. BYU and Utah migth contend for a PAC 10 title once in a blue moon in football/men's basketball, certainly the Utah team a few years back would be in the hunt (more or less) but BYU won the MWC and barely got past a middle of the road PAC 10 team (UCLA) in the Las Vegas bowl. Utah basketball in the Majerus years would be competitive of course but in reality I don't see the current BYU or Utah teams making a big splash in the PAC 10 right now. So in reality, are Utah and BYU a good fit for the PAC-10. Believe it or not I would say yes at some level because they are just as good of fit as Washington State or Oregon State, but it will come at a price...dominance of conference will end.
Now onto the big picture. Let's get real. BYU and Utah migth contend for a PAC 10 title once in a blue moon in football/men's basketball, certainly the Utah team a few years back would be in the hunt (more or less) but BYU won the MWC and barely got past a middle of the road PAC 10 team (UCLA) in the Las Vegas bowl. Utah basketball in the Majerus years would be competitive of course but in reality I don't see the current BYU or Utah teams making a big splash in the PAC 10 right now. So in reality, are Utah and BYU a good fit for the PAC-10. Believe it or not I would say yes at some level because they are just as good of fit as Washington State or Oregon State, but it will come at a price...dominance of conference will end.
RE: Name Change | 11:14 a.m. July 8, 2008
Geography Lesson: Arizona and ASU aren't on the Pacific Coast either and
Pullman (home of Washington State) isn't exactly beach front property
either.
Re: captainbarky | 11:18 a.m. July 8, 2008
You're forgetting that BYU's fanbase isn't confined to just the
Salt Lake City/Provo market, it's nationwide.
So you can add a strong BYU component to the mix of households in the following markets:
2. Los Angeles
6. San Francisco Bay Area
8. Washington, DC (Hagerstown, MD)
14. Phoenix
19. Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto, CA
Just because someone lives in a particular market, doesn't necessarily make them a fan of the local team.
Oh, and you left off
72. Tucson, AZ
80. Spokane, WA
So you can add a strong BYU component to the mix of households in the following markets:
2. Los Angeles
6. San Francisco Bay Area
8. Washington, DC (Hagerstown, MD)
14. Phoenix
19. Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto, CA
Just because someone lives in a particular market, doesn't necessarily make them a fan of the local team.
Oh, and you left off
72. Tucson, AZ
80. Spokane, WA
laughing out loud | 11:19 a.m. July 8, 2008
maybe if BYU would consider redruiting outside of Utah county, they could
perform consistently for a few years and maybe get considered for the Pac-10.
Lets not forget that the U got ranked higher than BYU for this season,
regardless of BYU's season last year
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
- Mitchell called intelligent, controlling 1:19 a.m.
- Brems outlasts 2nd round of votes 1:04 a.m.
- 2 families divided over slaying 1:04 a.m.
- Teen shot in scuffle with trooper 1:03 a.m.
- Nature's Way leaving Utah County 1:03 a.m.
- 'Grandfamilies' a growing trend 12:31 a.m.
- 'Cyber Monday' sales top records 12:29 a.m.
- 2 citations issued at Y.-U. game 12:26 a.m.
- No drugs in driver of Am.F. band bus 12:15 a.m.
- Governor Mansion to begin free tours 12:14 a.m.
- Hall's pain reflects self-betrayal
- Y. student vanished in China
- Utes won't respond to Hall
- Hall reprimanded by MWC
- Max Hall issues apology
- Cougs begin bowl preparations
- Mitchell called intelligent, controlling
- Teen shot in scuffle with trooper
- Matthews passes new Jazz tests
- Daughter: Mitchell fed me my pet
- Hall mouths off about hate of Utah
898 - Cougars beat Utes in overtime481
- Max Hall issues apology379
- Hall reprimanded by MWC370
- Hall's pain reflects self-betrayal316
- Utes won't respond to Hall257
- BYU is champion of the state140
- Man trapped in Nutty Putty cave dies121
- Cave to be sealed with body inside120
- Religion in politics is tiresome110
 |
Basketball Final | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | T |
| Jazz | 31 | 30 | 34 | 25 | 120 | |
| Grizzlies | 22 | 26 | 22 | 23 | 93 |
There's a chance the BYU Cougars could be without the services of...
Latest comments
There are some games I love not on your list. Arkham Asylum for one.
Our parents made my brothers help kill and clean our rabbits before we ate...
Why would you keep it open? I would understand if there was a lot of amazing...
The government will run our health care well? Read Reader's Digest, November...
TCU stomped on the MWC so they are naturally ready to crush Florida, Alabama...
could you understand Dave Locke any more than my mom does and she is not even...
Attending the ND/BYU game 3 years ago in south bend, a couple of things stuck...
I missed the game, actually i heard a little bit of Locke on the radio (man...
quotes were good: Article was dumb and unnecessary.
I believe the art depicting Joseph looking at the plates may possibly be...
Advertisements