Deseret News | Pac-10 will snub BYU, Utah

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Dick Harmon: Pac-10 will snub BYU, Utah

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Re: Name Change | 9:53 a.m. July 7, 2008

I live in Arizona. I don't see a lot of beach front property here! But you are right...when I think of the Pac(ific) 10, I definitely think of the ocean view I have out of my window here in Tempe!

Cytrixx | 9:54 a.m. July 7, 2008

Lets state the main reason that most Pac 10 schools dont want BYU in the converence - competition! and not the winning game kind but the competition but for top players that are Mormon and want to play in the Pac 10. Living in Oregon, I have talked to several past college and NFL/ NBA players that were LDS that would have gone to BYU if they were a Pac 10 school.

They all say BYU would compete well in the Pac 10 with addition to those players and the other schools dont want to give them up

Re: article | 9:58 a.m. July 7, 2008

You obviously didn't read the article. All the points that you said were not included were mentioned in the article. The point made was that Colorado would be a great fit, but have nothing to gain from the move, and BYU ranks as a "research institution, but not a High Research institution. Utah qualifies as a "high research institution", so academically they would fit.

All of that is mute, b/c the real issue is about the $$$$$$$. If Meyer stays at Utah, and they maintain their dominance then maybe they get the invite.

I agree though let's add BSU push our membership to ten and we could take the Big Easts place as part of the BCS

Comments continue below

Dray | 9:58 a.m. July 7, 2008

Utah and BYU can compete in the Pac 10. The recruiting aspect of this would have a huge inpact on both programs. Both teams already have good recruiting, but this would give them great recruiting. As it stands, both programs play some good teams in their non conference schedule, and then have to play through the mediocrity of the MWC, until they play each other the last game. It varies from year to year but thats the basics of it. I would love to see them playing the Pac 10, but for now hopefully they could get Fresno and Boise in the MWC, so that there are a few more teams with some level of respectability.

plain and simple | 9:58 a.m. July 7, 2008

for those posting that ah well Wash. St. and oregon st. are the weaker links of that conf. and I could see BYU stepping right in. Here's the reality in that kind of comment. Oregon st. plays in the tough PAC 10 Conference! BYU plays a mediocre Pre season and weak weak Conf. schedule. To say that BYU would fit right in is to say well then BOISE St. would too because they win in the WAC. Wake up MWC fans you guys need a realiuty check.

Reality | 10:00 a.m. July 7, 2008

The Big 12 did want BYU to join their conference several years back. The then Texas Governor, Ann Richards, nixed BYU joining and succesfully lobbied for her alma mater, Baylor to join the Big 12 instead.

There are rumors that the Big 12 is thinking of dumping Baylor and inviting BYU. The Big 12 is a much more lucrative conference then the Pac 10.

The Big 12 makes the Pac 10 look like the WAC.

PAC 10 doesn't want you | 10:01 a.m. July 7, 2008

The schools don't want you, and your in the Mountain states anyways. That's why it's the Pacific 10, like the Pacific coast. Just keep on trying to get to a BCS bowl in the league your in now.

Censorship | 10:05 a.m. July 7, 2008

It is laughable that PAC-10 institutions would accuse BYU of academic censorship. It is all a matter of persepective. Try and get hired at Stanford, Cal, UW, or UCLA with a proven conservative resume and pedigree. No need to censor the faculty when there is no way you would ever hire someone who you might disagree with.

See how quickly you get censored if you try to do any type of researchor or make any statement of fact that may offend thier politically correct view of the world. PAC-10 institutions genuinely seek diversity in skin color and culture, but they abhore true diversity of thought. Academic censorship at its finest.

It's all about the money. | 10:06 a.m. July 7, 2008

The PAC-10 has the money and doesn't want to share it. Period. BYU or Utah would compete athletically in any conference in the country. FYI there are sports beyond football and basketball. BYU and Utah have solid programs from top to bottom. Utah has a top notch medical school to boot! As academic institutions and considering athletic participation, BYU or Utah would be fantastic members of any conference in the country. But who wants a thinner slice of the $ pie? Nobody.

Funny Sun Devil | 10:16 a.m. July 7, 2008

"BYU will get their chance to show how awesome they are on Sept 12, 2009, when they come to Tempe to play the glorious Sun Devils. (I wonder why, in their awesomeness BYU agreed to be an early season lackey to ASU.)"

BYU fans are looking forward to extending our 2-game winning streak over the Sun Devils.

1998 @BYU 26 ASU 6
1997 BYU 13 @ASU 10

UofTexas Alumni | 10:18 a.m. July 7, 2008

I'm a proud card carrying member of the Longhorn Booster Club (my daughter will be attending BYU in the fall, but I still lover her).

The BIG 12 seriously considered issuing an invitation to BYU years back, but ultimately chose Baylor instead.

There are rumours from the BIG 12 members of dumping Baylor and taking another look at BYU. This issue was even discussed at our Spring Meeting in Austin. It certainly would be an interesting match.

I think BYU, Colorado and Missouri would be pretty evenly matched.

Boise to MWC ? | 10:25 a.m. July 7, 2008

Why would boise want to join the MWC. The last two seasons have been an example how like it or hate it ESPN exposure has helped position Boise then Hawaii into BCS bowl games. T

The year the Utes went to Fiesta Bowl they had the same great exposure with ESPN. This Mountain network kills any chance of national exposure to other voters. The last two seasons Bosie and Hawaii have been on ESPN multiple times.

A move to the MWC would take all of that exposure away. Besides most people east of the MISSISSIPPI still think BYU and UTAH are in the Wac. If BOISE wants to leave the wac a league they can dominate for years to come with some decent national exposure to join an little bit better conference with much worse national exposure by all means go right ahead and do it.

Zoobie 56 | 10:30 a.m. July 7, 2008

No one has mentioned another problem for BYU, which is not playing basketball on Sunday's. This is the Pac-10 format. This wouldn't be a problem for Utah, but is a big problem for the Y. The BCS is all about power, money and greed. I agree with Harmon that the Pac 10 won't give up any of that to share with BYU or the Utes. I think either school could play with the Pac 10 elite with BCS status. The athletic budgets would improve, and the Utes and Cougs would get more "blue chip" athletes. I don't think our football programs are that far from competing with the big boys presently. I'm sure this rankles Pac 10 big shots that were hoping we'd disappear.

Academic censorship? | 10:49 a.m. July 7, 2008

The whole academic freedom/censorship thing is a big myth. I graduated from BYU and have taught at UCLA. The fact is that you only have academic freedom at ANY institution if your peers there agree with you. Censorship on some level occurs at every institution. The fact is that BYU's undergraduate programs and the University of Utah's research programs are well respected - even in PAC-10 country. In the end, the PAC-10 is just giving excuses. They don't want to expand, and they have to find some reason to explain why.

Re: Funny comments | 10:49 a.m. July 7, 2008

Ummm... not to burst your bubble, but I think you're getting your seasons confused. Dixon played in the Las Vegas Bowl against BYU (he shared time with Brady Leaf at QB). He was very much a part of Oregon's remarkable 8 point production.

Re: Funny comments | 10:51 a.m. July 7, 2008

Some of your points are valid... however, when BYU trounced the Ducks in Vegas, Dixon played about half the game, rotating with Leaf. It was last year that Dixon was out with injury. By the way, can't wait for Sept 12th 2009, will be interesting to see if Erickson is still the coach and if he is, whether or not the NCAA will have begun their investigations of the football program yet... stink follows him wherever he goes

PAC 1 +9 | 10:54 a.m. July 7, 2008

When it comes to football, it's the Pac 1 + Little 9

PAC-10 Football Championships:

Southern Cal -- 25 (17 outright), including winning or sharing the last 6 titles; they've won more titles than the next two teams UCLA (11) and Washington (11) combined; no other team has won more than 3.

Arizona -- 1 (0 outright)
ASU -- 3 (2 outright)
Cal -- 2 (0 outright)
Oregon -- 3 (2 outright)
OSU -- 2 (0 outright)
Stanford -- 4 (3 outright)
UCLA -- 11 (6 outright)
Washington -- 11 (7 outright)
WSU -- 2 (0 outright)

Mighty Oregon, didn't win their first PAC-10 championship unti 1994.

Washington St., Oregon St., California, and Arizona have NEVER won an outright PAC-10 football championship.

Give BYU and Utah a home and home conference schedule with any combination of the little 9, and both of them will consistently finish with winning records -- guaranteed.

RE: Funny comments | 10:57 a.m. July 7, 2008

Dixon played in the Las Vegas bowl when BYU beat them. But then, anyone who would refer to the Sun Devils as glorious has to have a pretty skewed view between fact and fiction.

Darron Henderson | 11:03 a.m. July 7, 2008

A buddy of mine at work has a connection with a member of the University of Oklahoma's coaching staff. Recently, when the two were together, my friend asked this person for the current "rumors" in the program and conference. In response, the coach said the following:

1. Big 12 wants to replace Missouri and/or Baylor and add another member as its 12th team. Baylor and Missouri are not bringing in the revenue or adding any tangible benefit to the conference.

2. To replace Missouri and or Baylor, the Big XII is currently looking at two possibilities, one more likely than the other. First, the Big XII would prefer to have Arkansas, but considers it "unlikely" that it could lure it away from the SEC. The second and "more likely" scenario would be to invite BYU as Missouri/Baylor's replacement, which they believe BYU would accept.

Interesting. I hope the BIG 12 sticks to its guns and invites BYU this time around.

James | 11:04 a.m. July 7, 2008

BYU and Utah should not to the PAC-10. Rather, TCU and San Diego State should leave the MWC and be replaced by Boise State and Nevada. Then, the MWC would truly be the Mountain West Conference. Geez, you could almost make an argument for Washington State to join the MWC and let the PAC-10 pick up whomever they want, say Fresno State or San Diego State. Nobody wants Utah State in the MWC because of its poor football program, even though basketball would hold its own.

No one cares!! | 11:14 a.m. July 7, 2008

No one on the west coast cares about the MWC. We love our PAC 10, and to change it just because some school who wins in a very average conference wants out is crazy. It won't happen though! No one except BYU fans want it. Go home BYU

re: UofTexas Alumni | 11:17 a.m. July 7, 2008

Thank you for an insightful post. Out of all of the posts today, your post had one glaring difference. BYU as it's own entity.

What, are BYU and Utah twins, joined at the hip. Did Mom and Dad tell BYU that they have to take their Little Brother Up North everywhere they went?

Utah fans LOVE to rip on BYU, but without LDS/BYU, the University if Utah, and the anti-LDS hate 2/3rds of the fans carry, their attendance would drop, and they would become another Weber State, Utah State, or for that matter, the same as any other program in the State of Utah.

Utah needs to thank BYU for carrying them this long, and let BYU cut the cord.

Utah is an anchor around the neck of BYU, brings nothing to the table but hate and negativity. BYU should agree to hone and home nonconference games and move to greener pastures.

BYU and their fanbase would blossom in a new setting, and Utah would finally be able to compete for their own conference championship, and quit hating on BYU.

It's time for Mom and Dad to send them to different rooms and allow Utah to recover from little-brother-syndrome.

RE: Zoobie 56 | 11:19 a.m. July 7, 2008

What planet are you on? Again just because BYU beats up crappy schools in their conference doesn't make them a powerhouse and thrown into talks with schools like USC and others. YOu really think that BYU could compete in basketball with schools like UCLA,USC,WASH,Ore,Stan year in and year out. See the thing is those schools reload talent and don't have any guys leaving for wharever reason. It would be a trajesty to see any other schools join the conf and be humilated and embarassed.

Remember | 11:24 a.m. July 7, 2008

when USC went up to play BYU and SC had their backups inby the middle of the third quarter? YOu want to talk about competing? YOu have to beat teams like Tulsa first, or whoever home or away to get the recognition you guys think you already deserve. And for hell play a division one team. YOu want respect or what?

Former Texan | 11:23 a.m. July 7, 2008

Reality | 10:00 a.m. July 7, 2008

-and-

UofTexas Alumni | 10:18 a.m.

The Big 12 did not want BYU to join their conference several years back. Then Texas Governor, Ann Richards DID, nix a current MWC team from the Big XII by lobbying for her alma mater, Baylor instead. Too bad for TCU.

bob carlisle | 11:26 a.m. July 7, 2008

byu and utah should worry about karma coming back to hunt them, after they helped destroy the wac they still want more? soon the wac will pass up the mountain west in all major sports. maybee thats why they want out. in ten years maybee the mountain west will expand and invite a school from idaho and utah, no not utah state and boise, but weber and isu. they will be that bad.

Reality check | 11:29 a.m. July 7, 2008

why do you guys think that everything BYU is the best! and everyhting else is sub par. The truth is the quality of your team is sub par. And that's what the pac thinks of you. You guys talk like your the greatest college football minds and fans, yet you can't even tailgate and you show up 5 minutes before kickoff. Everything you do isn't the best so please humble yourselves and accept BYU football and sports for what it is.

Rose Bowl | 11:37 a.m. July 7, 2008

You have to tip your hat to the person who thinks that the fans who remember what the "rose boll" used to be are dying off and soon no one will remember the Pac 10-Big 10 rivalry. Don't hold your breath Eli Whitney.

scott47a | 11:48 a.m. July 7, 2008

Umm ... the Oregon State Beavers won the NCAA baseball national championship in 2006 and 2007.

The Washington State Cougars basketball team was 26-9 last year and was ranked in the Top 5 in the nation for a long spell.

At a minimum the columnist here should know something about the programs he is disparaging.

U silly Ute fans | 11:47 a.m. July 7, 2008

re: "just because BYU beats up crappy schools."

Like Utah???

So how do we get rid of those "crappy teams"?

Cut the cord on Utah. Join a tougher conference, and beat them up.

Easy...

Devil | 11:47 a.m. July 7, 2008

Let's look at a little history to see why Utah will never be invited to the Pac 10 and why BYU will need to keep improving in all sports to get an invite.For those who say that Utah and BYU could hang with Pac-10 schools in athletics look at the numbers. Last year 07-08 the Pac-10 won the Directors Cup which is a measure of Universities total athletic program and success. The Pac-10 won 13 NCAA titles last year MWC=0! The big-ten was runner up with 5. 4 of the Pac-10 schools were among the top 7. Stan=1 UCLA=2 ASU=4 Cal.=7 USC=13 Wash.=22 Ore.=26 Ariz.=27. Thats 8 schools in the top 50! MWC= BYU=41. Lets look at the 3 major mens college sports. National champs in football Pac-10=14, MWC=2(BYU-1984, TCU-1938). National Champs in basketball Pac-10=15, MWC=3 (WY-1943, UT-1944, UNLV-1990). National Champs in baseball Pac-10=26, MWC=0. BYU is the only MWC school thats even on the national map in the MWC. The Pac-10 doesn't have to hang its hat on one game it won once against a team with a injured quarterback (OR) in a bowl game that meant nothing. It has 55 national championships in the big 3 mens sports:)

Y fan | 11:50 a.m. July 7, 2008

Who needs the PAC 1+9 anyway? I think they are overrated and their Officials are the biggest joke in all of the NCAA!!! Its no wonder they have to bring their refs to all road games. If I had my choice, I'd rather see the Y in the Big 12. They have been discussing the possibility if they get rid of baylor. Screw the PAC 1+9!!

hey Name Change: | 11:57 a.m. July 7, 2008

Really stupid argument. If the Pac-10 could get Texas to leave the Big 12 they'd expand in a heart beat. How do the Longhorns fit the conference name (like that's really the reason that teams join conferences).

Realist | 11:58 a.m. July 7, 2008

The problem is that they don't need new schools. The PAC 10 is a well-established, high-finctioning league that has nothing to gain by adding BYU and Utah. We gain a lot from it but they get nothing but more work. Why would they ever want to change what works so well?

Boise Fan | 11:59 a.m. July 7, 2008

Hate to break it to you Utes/Cougar fans, but Boise will be in the Pac 10 way before Utah or BYU.

JT | 12:11 p.m. July 7, 2008

From what I have read in the past (and another article just recently), the reason the Pac-10 would consider BYU and Utah is precisely money--the money generated by a conference championship game. I haven't seen figures reported in articles mentioning this, but apparently it is sufficient to make a championship game desirable. Based on that, BYU and Utah may well be of interest to them since they likely can't raid the Big 12.

Re: Funny Comments | 12:19 p.m. July 7, 2008

BYU Scheduled ASU because ASU wanted to sell out their stadium like Arizona did when they played BYU in Tuscon, but given the homegrown refs that the PAC 10 uses I can see why BYU should have reservations about playing in Tempe. I guess they took consolation in knowing that ASU would have to play in Provo the following year and ASU would get spanked by 30 points instead of being edged out by 6 points like they will be in Tempe.

To "former Texan" | 12:17 p.m. July 7, 2008

I guess former BYU Athletic Director Felberg and Pres Bateman were lying to all of us when they told the media just the opposite of what you just said. No, it was to bad for BYU.

McKay | 12:18 p.m. July 7, 2008

What is so funny to me is that just about everybody who is not a BYU fan love to try and minimize anything and everything to do with the Y. it's as if they are threatened by the Y... otherwise why such an infatuation with the school and it's fans??

Utah Guy..... | 12:25 p.m. July 7, 2008

Utah and BYU will not be given serious PAC 10 consideration....Too many financial negatvies for the current Pac 10 schools,, particularly the weak members like Wash. State and Oregon State (Neither one would be considered for membership today for the same reasons BYU and Utah are not
considered)........BYU and Utah's only chance to be considered in the "Elite" classification of Division 1 is to form their own Conference consisting of schools who have the financial resources, potential, and commitment to move up to the "elite Level" Those schools could include:
BYU, Utah, UNLV, TCU, SMU, San Diego State, Fresno State, and Hawaii.......Current schools like Colorado State, Wyoming, Boise State,etc. do not and probably never will have all of the necessary ingredients to achieve "elite status"..........

RE: Devil | 12:26 p.m. July 7, 2008

And exactly what does ASU bring to that list of championships? It certainly is a list any conference would be proud of, but it is a list of accomplishments mostly for the California schools plus UW. Dont kid your self that ASU is piling on the honors for the PAC-10.

re: Boise Fan | 12:29 p.m. July 7, 2008

please tell me you're kidding? that was the most ridiculous thing I have read all morning. Boise has a respectable football team but nothing else. I like Boise as a town but it has nothing to offer the PAC 10 and to be quite honest I could care less if any of these teams go to the PAC 10... but be assured... a few quality seasons with a fiesta bowl win (which was a very entertaining game)albeit over a just above average Oklahoma team does not qualify BSU as PAC 10 material. I would say that UNLV or Nevada has a better shot of joining the PAC 10 than the broncos.

Re: Devil | 12:35 p.m. July 7, 2008

Big 3 mens sports???

There are ONLY TWO big college sports -- football and basketball. NONE of the other sports, including baseball even come close.

Sorry, there just isn't much interest in baseball, or any of the other minor college sports.

Average Baseball Attendance for 2006 (most recent statistics available):

Rank School Games Attendance Avg/Game
1. LSU 36 263,534 7,320
2. Arkansas 28 199,450 7,123
3. Mississippi St. 28 193,703 6,918
4. Texas 30 161,392 5,380
5. Nebraska 24 122,216 5,092
6. Mississippi 36 174,756 4,854
7. Clemson 39 184,946 4,742
8. Alabama 38 173,450 4,564
9. Texas A&M 31 138,805 4,478
10. Florida St. 36 158,055 4,390
20. Hawaii 31 82,744 2,669
23. Arizona St. 32 79,239 2,476
30. Fresno St. 39 75,355 1,932
31. Stanford 28 51,366 1,835
36. Oregon St. 30 49,285 1,643
38. TCU 26 40,158 1,545
43. Brigham Young 20 26,058 1,303

Arizona State, best home attendance in the PAC-10 for 2006, drew roughly the same number of fans FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON, 79,239, as they draw for ONE FOOTBALL game.

BYU draws twice as many fans for mens volleyball.

Re: Devil | 12:40 p.m. July 7, 2008

BYU and Utah have multiple national championships in womens cross country,mens volleyball, and womens gymnastics. How does that compare with your beloved Arizona State

manifest destiny? | 12:43 p.m. July 7, 2008

Years ago, It was speculated that the Utes & Colorado would join the Pac10 & BYU would take CU's place in the Big 12.

It did not happen because the small minds at the respective institutions in this state were afraid of the change.

That & CU liked where they were and the PAC 10 did not want another private institution.

Personally, I am waiting for the MWC to water itself down... much like when the WAC added Fresno and few others and we heard how great having 16 schools would be so great.

They need to revisit the U to the Pac and BYU to the big 12... it would enhance the visibility of both and solve the terrible/mickey mouse schedules of both for football.

Anonymous | 12:48 p.m. July 7, 2008

Until last yr, the Big 12 north was joke. BYU would fit in perfectly.

When it comes to college football, There is the SEC and then there is the rest.

BYu fans get real | 12:48 p.m. July 7, 2008

The Big 12 won't take BYu, they picked Baylor over your school, thats right Baylor. The Pac 10 would take Utah before you, they have all the Academic requirements, they also have a good reputation for sports throughout the country. BYu won't play on Sunday, so that hurts the big conferences TV deals. BYu has respected academics, but they don't have a Medical program or some of the other academics that Pac 10 schools have. Face it you're not the big fish in a small pond, you're the little fish with little mans syndrome.

Anonymous | 12:50 p.m. July 7, 2008

What I meant by my previous post is that BYU & Nebraska together living off glory days of seasons gone by and trying to regain that magic would be ideal.

ROFL!

Re: get real | 12:48 p.m. | 1:35 p.m. July 7, 2008

You're too funny. The "PAC" in PAC-10 stands for Pacific ATHLETIC Conference; academic qualifications are an excuse, not a reason, to not invite BYU to join the PAC-10.

It's an ATHLETIC conference, not an "academic" conference.

The ONLY driving force for/against expansion is $$$$$$!

When/if the PAC-10 presidents decide that including BYU or any other school in the conference will improve their own bottom line, ALL of the academic, geographic, athletic arguments will MAGICALLY disappear.

The bowl "traditions," the BcS, and all of the other phoney baloney is nothing but a smoke screen for the "haves" to keep the "have nots" from sharing more of the pie.

That's the ONLY reason we don't have a playoff, YET!

The Best Idea | 1:36 p.m. July 7, 2008

The best idea yet is for the Utes and Cougs to join the WAC. The WAC is much better in football and basketball than the MWC. Imagine, the likes of BYU, Utah, Boise State, Fresno, and Hawaii in fooball and Utah, BYU, Nevada, New Mexico State and Utah State in basketball. That move would make much more sense.

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