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Utah Jazz: Maggette drawing lots of attention
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It's Ok we have Jason Hart | 4:52 a.m. July 5, 2008
I am going to go out on a limb here and predict that the Jazz will make no major
moves in the off season. It happens time and time again, where the Jazz are one
piece away from being a SERIOUS contender. Until Larry Miller quits running
this team as a business and takes some chances to make a real run at a
championship, the Jazz and their fans will have to settle for being just a
pretty good team. Larry and Kevin: "If you keep doing what you have been
doing, you will keep getting what you have been getting." Take a note out
of Danny Ainge's book and invest in one more quality player that can bring
the missing pieces. Is it any wonder Deron Williams wants to talk with
management before signing a long deal, he can see the writing on the walls and
in the history books of the Utah Jazz. He has said "I just want to
win."
4jazz | 7:31 a.m. July 5, 2008
Could someone please explain why the Jazz would have any interest now in
Magette? With Brewer, CJ, and Almond all being wonderful young (and affordable)
SGs with tons of potential, and the Jazz needing a big defender more than
anything, not to mention the need to preserve cap space for Williams, why waste
any time considering an SG whose best days are probably behind him???
mattsy | 9:01 a.m. July 5, 2008
The only way the jazz can get good players is through the draft (Dwill, brewer,
milsap, AK) or by offering them max money (Booz) or they have to find a special
player that actually has family values and would be ok with living in Utah
(Korver). What gangster NBA player chooses living and playing for Utah over
Boston, Orlando, Golden State, players would even rather play for Clippers! It
is sad. The Jazz are so close to being Championship good with one or two more
pieces. I hope they can pull something off.
Comments continue below
RE: 4Jazz | 9:24 a.m. July 5, 2008
The Jazz have interest in Magette because he is a better player than all of the
players you mentioned. What good does it do to have a whole slew of players
with potential that are inexpensive if they do not contribute.
Don't get me wrong Brewer is a great player but you will notice that teams won't even defend Bewer on the perimeter. That makes it difficult to stretch the floor and create space for more guys.
Finally read the post from "It's Ok we have Jason Hart" and you will get some insight on what the Jazz should do to become truly better. Spoiler- it does not intail have a gutten of mediocre 2 guards on your roster.
Don't get me wrong Brewer is a great player but you will notice that teams won't even defend Bewer on the perimeter. That makes it difficult to stretch the floor and create space for more guys.
Finally read the post from "It's Ok we have Jason Hart" and you will get some insight on what the Jazz should do to become truly better. Spoiler- it does not intail have a gutten of mediocre 2 guards on your roster.
I'm with 4Jazz | 10:14 a.m. July 5, 2008
I disagree with whoever responded to 4Jass. Magette is not much better than
Brewer or CJ in my opinion. He may shoot better from the perimeter, but he
doesn't move without the ball like Brewer, and CJ can shoot if he finds his
rhythm. We haven't even seen Almond yet, but I'm thinking we're
set at the SG position. I have no complaints whatsoever at PG too. We all know
DWill is one of the best three points in the league, and Ronnie Price is a great
back up.
So why Magette? I hope he goes elsewhere, cuz we don't need him. I don't know what Kevin O' is doing. THe entire basketball world knows what we lack to be a real title contender. Go get a BIG MAN with defensive presence. Send Collins and Hart packing, and throw in our draft pick if you need to to land someone who isn't a project, but is ready to play.
So why Magette? I hope he goes elsewhere, cuz we don't need him. I don't know what Kevin O' is doing. THe entire basketball world knows what we lack to be a real title contender. Go get a BIG MAN with defensive presence. Send Collins and Hart packing, and throw in our draft pick if you need to to land someone who isn't a project, but is ready to play.
ikenhowitzer | 11:00 a.m. July 5, 2008
Amen to the the need for a big-man, heck get rid of Memo he is to streaky and
couldn't defend a paper bag. Between him and Boozer the Jazz have more
streaks than a skunk. Trade Memo (if anyone is willing to pick up his ridiculous
contract) and get a defensive stopper or trade Boozer and develop Millsap, he is
going to be a monster.
Maggette | 11:27 a.m. July 5, 2008
would be a nice addition, but I do agree Utah needs a big man that can play
defense. Does anyone else think that if Utah even had Ostertag on this team,
they could get over the top? Everyone knows he never played to his potential,
but he was a big body who could defend fairly well (when he wasn't in foul
trouble) and rebound. That's the type of player Utah needs in order to
make it to the top. Utah's offense isn't the problem. It's
their defense and until they get that defensive player, I don't see Utah
going any further.
Alex Trebek | 11:41 a.m. July 5, 2008
Magette plays NO DEFENSE. Therefore, he's not a good fit.
Brabbit | 11:45 a.m. July 5, 2008
News flash tell me what big men are available and if there were who would want
late first round draft picks and Hart and Collins for them. In case you
didn't notice big men that even have a little ability are a rare commodity
thats why you see so many more teams running the floor and playing 4-s at the 5.
And as far as every body questioning that Larry wants to win, I don't think
he would have opened his wallet to Boozer, AK, and Memo in the past few years if
he wasn't commited.
As Jazz fans we have been spoiled we had one bad year and listen to the way we repay our owner for rebuilding as fast as we did. Let the experts do their job and if you don't like the way we run our team why don't you cheer for the Nuggets they are a perfect example of going out and getting big names with zero result.
As Jazz fans we have been spoiled we had one bad year and listen to the way we repay our owner for rebuilding as fast as we did. Let the experts do their job and if you don't like the way we run our team why don't you cheer for the Nuggets they are a perfect example of going out and getting big names with zero result.
Ing | 12:21 p.m. July 5, 2008
I agree with the first comment. I love that the Jazz always win a lot of games
and show well in the playoffs, but I think unless something changes, Utah will
always be a half-step behind someone else in the end.
HOWEVER, that doesn't mean blowing up what we've got. If we can trade Booz or Memo or AK for a guy who brings something different that really makes us better, fine. Players like these three don't grow on trees, though. I love Millsap, but I don't think he's ever going to make Boozer expendable.
Maybe getting Maggette would be just what the Jazz need. His shot would be an asset--and then the Jazz could bundle a couple of their other guards into a trade that might get them immediate help in the middle (and also buy time for Fess and Koufos to develop).
Utah will never get Maggette, though. Too many other teams are interested. If he wants a ring, he's going to sign with San Antonio or Boston. If he wants money, he's got some decent teams offering a lot more than Utah can.
I wish we could get Maggette, but it ain't gonna happen.
HOWEVER, that doesn't mean blowing up what we've got. If we can trade Booz or Memo or AK for a guy who brings something different that really makes us better, fine. Players like these three don't grow on trees, though. I love Millsap, but I don't think he's ever going to make Boozer expendable.
Maybe getting Maggette would be just what the Jazz need. His shot would be an asset--and then the Jazz could bundle a couple of their other guards into a trade that might get them immediate help in the middle (and also buy time for Fess and Koufos to develop).
Utah will never get Maggette, though. Too many other teams are interested. If he wants a ring, he's going to sign with San Antonio or Boston. If he wants money, he's got some decent teams offering a lot more than Utah can.
I wish we could get Maggette, but it ain't gonna happen.
magnus | 12:53 p.m. July 5, 2008
I agree that we need a big and wish we could have landed Diop. The Jazz
actually have drafted 3 good young centers in the last 2 years, unfortunately
none of them are ready for prime time yet.
I just have to laugh at the people who want to get rid of Memo. I wonder if you actually watched any Jazz games this year or if you just have the basketball IQ of a peanut. Memo is an all star calliber center and just because he doesn't block alot of shots doesn't mean he doesn't play good D. He plays hard and does a good job of getting position and staying between his man and the basket. He also is a perfect fit for the Jazz system.
I just have to laugh at the people who want to get rid of Memo. I wonder if you actually watched any Jazz games this year or if you just have the basketball IQ of a peanut. Memo is an all star calliber center and just because he doesn't block alot of shots doesn't mean he doesn't play good D. He plays hard and does a good job of getting position and staying between his man and the basket. He also is a perfect fit for the Jazz system.
magnus | 1:08 p.m. July 5, 2008
I think the JAzz will be fine and if they could keep this group together I think
they would be perrennial title contenders.
I am seriously concerned about Boozer, I think opposing teams have figured him out. He's not a good passer and his court vision isn't very good. So you put your center on him and let him get the ball, then you colapse two guys behind him into the paint so he either shoots the Jumper over a 7 footer or he drives into traffic. Against teams playing active D he gets killed. That being said he is still a great rebounder and one of the best post scorers in the game.
but it doesn't matter really because Boozer is as good as gone.
The Jazz will be fine without him if two things happen. First they need their young guys to continue to improve. Brewer, Millsap, CJ, and Almond continue to develop and at least two of the three young bigs (Fes, Kosta, and Tomic) need to contribute quality minutes. Second, they need to pick up a starting quality veteran swing man, either a PF/SF or a SF/S, with proven ability to score and defend.
I am seriously concerned about Boozer, I think opposing teams have figured him out. He's not a good passer and his court vision isn't very good. So you put your center on him and let him get the ball, then you colapse two guys behind him into the paint so he either shoots the Jumper over a 7 footer or he drives into traffic. Against teams playing active D he gets killed. That being said he is still a great rebounder and one of the best post scorers in the game.
but it doesn't matter really because Boozer is as good as gone.
The Jazz will be fine without him if two things happen. First they need their young guys to continue to improve. Brewer, Millsap, CJ, and Almond continue to develop and at least two of the three young bigs (Fes, Kosta, and Tomic) need to contribute quality minutes. Second, they need to pick up a starting quality veteran swing man, either a PF/SF or a SF/S, with proven ability to score and defend.
Cody | 1:56 p.m. July 5, 2008
I would like to trade Hart, Collins, and Harpring for Dalembert. Philly is no
longer big on him and he plays good D with little O which would be fine for what
we need. Philly is looking to pursue top players in the FA market and this
would allow them more flexibility in the next year as well.
Philly likes to trade with us that's no secret. We would open up roster space for some of our young players to start playing as well. All in all this would improve our team.
Philly likes to trade with us that's no secret. We would open up roster space for some of our young players to start playing as well. All in all this would improve our team.
james | 2:32 p.m. July 5, 2008
Sometimes, I feel pro teams (as well as corporations) will say one thing to the
public, but actually intend to do something entirely different.
The Jazz have no shot and dont intend to sign Maggette. If they were serious, there would be a sign and trade done with more marketable pieces. And even with Magette, the Jazz would not beter than they were last yr.
The strength of the team's offense is DWill and Booze, and Booze was terribly mismatched by taller defenders, and agressive help defenders in the playoffs. Despite his skill, he is 6ft 8 and needs to focus on rebounding, physical and positioning defense.
Diop would ahve helped, but he cant stay on the floor for more than 15-18 min, as he is a offensive liability.
I thought the best move the Jazz could have made would be to draft a quick 4 player who would defend and block shots. But the Jazz got Okur like Koufos, who may be insurance in the event that Okur opts out next yr. Yes...we hear of Booze's option next yr, but Okur also has the same option and the odds are he will be a FA too.
The Jazz have no shot and dont intend to sign Maggette. If they were serious, there would be a sign and trade done with more marketable pieces. And even with Magette, the Jazz would not beter than they were last yr.
The strength of the team's offense is DWill and Booze, and Booze was terribly mismatched by taller defenders, and agressive help defenders in the playoffs. Despite his skill, he is 6ft 8 and needs to focus on rebounding, physical and positioning defense.
Diop would ahve helped, but he cant stay on the floor for more than 15-18 min, as he is a offensive liability.
I thought the best move the Jazz could have made would be to draft a quick 4 player who would defend and block shots. But the Jazz got Okur like Koufos, who may be insurance in the event that Okur opts out next yr. Yes...we hear of Booze's option next yr, but Okur also has the same option and the odds are he will be a FA too.
kosimov | 3:13 p.m. July 5, 2008
I agree with Magnus. With the exception of a team like Boston, who brought in
three outstanding players who were ready and able to produce immediately,
because they were a good fit to begin with, it is very, very difficult to shake
up the lineup of a team with one player coming in and several leaving, and have
the chemistry of the team work immediately, if ever. The musical chairs we now
have with players who go to the highest bidder every couple of years, it is
going to be ever more difficult to put together a consistent winner no matter
who is brought in. A much more important factor is to coach and manage the team
such that each player gives his best; a good example of that is the BYU football
team. Year after year they over-achieve due to superb managing of what they
have, which makes each player give his all. If the Jazz could manage that, the
present lineup, or I should say, the next lineup, would be fine to take a run at
Boston and others. Remember, two years ago, this squad nearly made it to the
finals!
Memo over Booz | 3:15 p.m. July 5, 2008
I also think Memo is one of the best centers in the league, far underrated. He
played stronger defense than Boozer did all year, especially playoff time. He
even did it with a bad leg, that's tenacious D. Name a true center that
plays better offense from 10 out.He even learned to play down low this year and
quickened his first step.
Millsap played better offense and defense in limited minutes than Boozer did in playoffs, and is much more hard nosed. He is not afraid to take a bump. Millsap may not take as many outside jump shots, but they look good when he does. It took Boozer a while to develop into his game, Millsap's interior games is already stronger.
It would be good to keep Boozer if he gets stronger in the post, but Millsap is already stronger and could fill that role nicely. Making a move for some young, athletic 4-5's would be the best bet. Jazz have shooters and a great outside shooting percentage. They lost some of their inside game and they need to build there to open the outside shooters.
Millsap played better offense and defense in limited minutes than Boozer did in playoffs, and is much more hard nosed. He is not afraid to take a bump. Millsap may not take as many outside jump shots, but they look good when he does. It took Boozer a while to develop into his game, Millsap's interior games is already stronger.
It would be good to keep Boozer if he gets stronger in the post, but Millsap is already stronger and could fill that role nicely. Making a move for some young, athletic 4-5's would be the best bet. Jazz have shooters and a great outside shooting percentage. They lost some of their inside game and they need to build there to open the outside shooters.
JazzFanInHouston | 6:08 p.m. July 5, 2008
I have been looking at the Wages of Win data (adjusted for 48 minutes). Here are
the following scores for 06/07 first and then 07/08. Boozer, Willaims, AK, and
Brewer rank in the top 15 at their positions for 07/08 (whole year data). The
rest of the 07/08 data are for the first half (41 games) of 07/08 (only data I
could find).
Boozer .345, .251 rank 4th
Willaims .149, .238 rank 6th
AK .178, .187 rank 11th
Brewer .122, .203 rank 7th
Okur .102, -.9 at the half
Miles -.227, .136 at the half
Millsap .178, .130 at the half
Harping .102, .109 "
Several things of note. Williams, Brewer and Miles made vast improvements and may improve some more in 08/09. Boozer was weaker in 07/08. Replacing Brewer with Maggette (.176) does not make sense. However, if Maggette can rotate with both AK and Brewer that would raise the number of wins. Korver was about an .05 player with Phil while Harping is consistent at .10.
We seem to need help at center, bench point guard and bench 2 and 3. We need help on defense especially at the 2 and 3 positions.
Boozer .345, .251 rank 4th
Willaims .149, .238 rank 6th
AK .178, .187 rank 11th
Brewer .122, .203 rank 7th
Okur .102, -.9 at the half
Miles -.227, .136 at the half
Millsap .178, .130 at the half
Harping .102, .109 "
Several things of note. Williams, Brewer and Miles made vast improvements and may improve some more in 08/09. Boozer was weaker in 07/08. Replacing Brewer with Maggette (.176) does not make sense. However, if Maggette can rotate with both AK and Brewer that would raise the number of wins. Korver was about an .05 player with Phil while Harping is consistent at .10.
We seem to need help at center, bench point guard and bench 2 and 3. We need help on defense especially at the 2 and 3 positions.
eff vs wp48 | 6:27 p.m. July 5, 2008
Korver was a vast improvement over Gircek based on wp48 numbers. Korver's
eff rating is very similar to Maggette but Korvers wp48 number is a lot weaker.
Eff numbers tend to be biased in favor of offense so Maggette may be better on defense than is thought.
Collins and Hart have negative wp48 numbers which is why they do not play much.
Eff numbers tend to be biased in favor of offense so Maggette may be better on defense than is thought.
Collins and Hart have negative wp48 numbers which is why they do not play much.
Rich | 8:19 p.m. July 5, 2008
I applaud Larry Miller's efforts to bring the Jazz the type of players who
can help the team win a championship. Time and time again he has pulled the
trigger on moves that were calculated to help the team ream that goal.
Don't forget how hard we went after Maggette last time he was on the
market. Miller knows that fans will always support a winner, and he also enjoys
the extra income realized when the Jazz go far in the playoffs. But selecting
players is not a science, and it is impossible to get all the best players on
one team due to the players' desires themselves as well as the many rules
regarding the amount of money that can be offered. Still, the Jazz rate highly
in the trades they have made in the past 25 years. There isn't a team that
hasn't made mistakes in trades as well as the draft, but the Jazz continue
to show remarkable vision and ability to pick out players who help the Jazz.
This is especially remarkable because Utah is not only a small market but also
is not regarded as a great place to live by many NBA players.
Re: It's ok we have Hart | 9:28 p.m. July 5, 2008
The Celtics are going to be a flash in the pan. Danny Ainge invested in the
short-term, being that Boston is one of the oldest teams in the league. The Big
3 are all in their 30's and will only be relevant for another couple years.
KOC on the other hand has wisely invested in the future and his efforts WILL be rewarded with Finals opportunities for at least a decade. The Jazz are young and haven't even reached the ceiling of how good they can get. Don't throw KOC under the bus just yet, were only in JULY and trying to lock up D-Will!!! KOC is willing to make the team better. Ex: 1) traded up to get D-Will, 2) traded for Korver which sparked a turnaround that season, etc.
I agree though that we need another piece that's a veteran and a defensive presence. But I don't think Maggette fits the bill as a defensive enforcer. As a player who can score 20 pts. in any given night, I don't see Maggette buying into the concept of playing on a team built around D-Will and Boozer unless the Jazz fork over more money (which isn't going to happen).
KOC on the other hand has wisely invested in the future and his efforts WILL be rewarded with Finals opportunities for at least a decade. The Jazz are young and haven't even reached the ceiling of how good they can get. Don't throw KOC under the bus just yet, were only in JULY and trying to lock up D-Will!!! KOC is willing to make the team better. Ex: 1) traded up to get D-Will, 2) traded for Korver which sparked a turnaround that season, etc.
I agree though that we need another piece that's a veteran and a defensive presence. But I don't think Maggette fits the bill as a defensive enforcer. As a player who can score 20 pts. in any given night, I don't see Maggette buying into the concept of playing on a team built around D-Will and Boozer unless the Jazz fork over more money (which isn't going to happen).
Fernando Arias | 9:57 p.m. July 5, 2008
Amazing to read that the Jazz should "just invest like the
Celtics"...
Do people truly have no memory? The Celtic were awful for many years, including the season before last. That's how they got the high draft picks and cap space to make a big trade.
I can only imagine the cries and moans of the same people complaining that the Jazz aren't "investing" enough money (even though they're capped out!) if the Jazz dropped to worst in the League.
I'm totally amazed how fans who spend a lot of time following a team can appear so utterly ignorant as to cap, draft picks, overall budgets and the like.
Do people truly have no memory? The Celtic were awful for many years, including the season before last. That's how they got the high draft picks and cap space to make a big trade.
I can only imagine the cries and moans of the same people complaining that the Jazz aren't "investing" enough money (even though they're capped out!) if the Jazz dropped to worst in the League.
I'm totally amazed how fans who spend a lot of time following a team can appear so utterly ignorant as to cap, draft picks, overall budgets and the like.
Fernando Arias | 10:03 p.m. July 5, 2008
I'm always surprised that the Jazz front office thinks so highly of
Maggette.
Having watched him play for the Clippers, he seems to be the opposite of what the Jazz should want.
While he is talented, he is also not a strong defender and has shown very little ability to mesh his game into that of his teammates.
In other words, Maggette is a great one-on-one player, but a lot less impressive as a team player.
Of course, who knows what would happen if he looked at moving to a new team as an opportunity to be part of a winner, but that implies taking a big risk that he won't be negative to the team spirit and efficiency like he was with the Clippers.
There's a reason Coach Dunleavy had problems with him.
Having watched him play for the Clippers, he seems to be the opposite of what the Jazz should want.
While he is talented, he is also not a strong defender and has shown very little ability to mesh his game into that of his teammates.
In other words, Maggette is a great one-on-one player, but a lot less impressive as a team player.
Of course, who knows what would happen if he looked at moving to a new team as an opportunity to be part of a winner, but that implies taking a big risk that he won't be negative to the team spirit and efficiency like he was with the Clippers.
There's a reason Coach Dunleavy had problems with him.
RE:RE its OK we have Hart | 10:55 p.m. July 5, 2008
LOL, the Celtics will be a flash in the pan? Thats funny. They just won the NBA
Championship and will have a great shot at winning it again over the next 2-3
years. As a Jazz fan I would be 100% satisfied if they had a team that won the
NBA finals this year with a group of 3 NBA All-Stars over the age of 30 and were
a favorite to win it all over the next 2-3 years. The player we needed was Ray
Allen, the best outside shooter in the NBA who also plays solid defense. I wish
we would have traded our draft pick and AK to the Sonics for him.
Anonymous | 11:19 p.m. July 5, 2008
Don't buy into the fact that the Jazz are young and will have "many
opportunities" in the future to reach the finals. Name a team that
isn't young in the west? The Hornets, Lakers, and Blazers are all
"young." The Spurs and Suns are still ticking. Something needs to
happen NOW.
If there were any takers for Boozer (rhymes with "loser") they should trade him. He is the worst defensive player in the league. If we can't trade him, we'll hopefully be able to use his money next year to pick up a solid 4. I hate Carlos Boozer.
Go Jazz.
If there were any takers for Boozer (rhymes with "loser") they should trade him. He is the worst defensive player in the league. If we can't trade him, we'll hopefully be able to use his money next year to pick up a solid 4. I hate Carlos Boozer.
Go Jazz.
Enough Already | 8:55 a.m. July 6, 2008
You brilliant fans and all of your various trade scenario's are ridiculous.
Just go to any sports web-site and look at the rosters for all of the NBA teams
and tell me honestly if you would trade rosters with any of them. This Jazz team
is building and building just have some patience. Isn't conference and
playoff success positive? The teams that you better look out for in the next few
years are the Blazers, Hornets, Lakers and yes even the Timberwoves in the west.
We are just fine, mark my words. Our young centers are going to make alot of
teams, fans and media envious SOON. Our biggest problem is the salary cap with
what we have now. We will see soon also if D-will really is all about winning.
If he is he won't insist on a MAX contract, instead getting just a BIG
contract leaving room on the payroll for other quality players.
Mike B. | 12:29 p.m. July 6, 2008
The Jazz are a francise that have been good for a long time. Larry Miller
will not stick his neck out like a Boston or an L.A. to get the kind of players
that will put you over th top. We are destined to be a team that will make a
second round, or an occational conference final. NBA championship?? What are
joke we are, that will never happen until Larry and Kevin o'conner get off
of thier wallets. Get rid of Jason collins,Matt Hapring, and yes andre for some
athletic talent that will get it done.
Ing | 1:12 p.m. July 6, 2008
You want a basketball joke, try the Clippers. Or even Miami. Yes, they did win
a title, which I bet was a lot of fun, but now they're a laughingstock. Of
course, Miami does have some high draft picks as compensation for tanking.
Maybe they'll be able to use theirs like San Antonio did when they got
Duncan.
Anyway, I'd rather be where we are now than where either of those teams are.
Anyway, I'd rather be where we are now than where either of those teams are.
redundant | 6:46 p.m. July 6, 2008
I've got it! All we need to do is trade Andrei and pick up someone who
plays defense! wait....
Bob | 9:20 p.m. July 6, 2008
It amazes me how Jazz fans know so little about professional basketball. One
comment said just to trade Andrei. You can't just trade him when he is
locked into a mammoth contract. No NBA team is going to pick up his contract
with his diminishing skills. And to say Brewer is better than Corey Maggette.
Are you nuts? Maggette is an offensive machine. Brewer is on the way toward
being a better basketball player but he is not there yet. Also, every
championship team in the NBA has a good to great center. Okur is more a 3 point
shooter than a true center.
Wow | 10:43 p.m. July 6, 2008
Bob needs to learn what the word "sarcasm" means. It amazes me how
some "other" fans don't have a 4th grade language comprehension
level...
Re: Re: Re: its ok we have hart | 11:35 p.m. July 6, 2008
My point was that I think the Celtics window of opportunity going to close soon.
I never said they wouldn't be good for the next couple of years. I
believe the Jazz can become the next SA Spurs and REMAIN an elite team for the
next decade (GIVEN that they pick up that extra piece to put them over the
edge).
magnus | 11:34 p.m. July 6, 2008
@ Bob
You make good points but to say that Memo doesn't qulify as a "good to great center" seems a little crazy to me.
Not only that but I'm not buying the whole "in order to win it all you HAVE to have _______". There is always an exception. Bigjazzfan has been pushing that line for months now and I'm still not buying it.
On another topic, the Jazz payroll situation will get really interesting next year if they don't make any major moves.
If Okur stays healthy next season he's going to opt out and the Jazz will be looking at 10-14Mil a year to keep him.
Boozer is opting out, and if the Jazz even want to think about keeping him they will have to offer max money.
Heart and Collins will be off the payroll
Harpring may or may not retire.
Millsap, Price, and possibly Miles will be free agents. Depending on the year Millsap has I think he could be worth anywhere from 2-6 Mil. If Price plays as well as he did at the end of last season he could draw offers in the 2-3 mil range.
D-Will will start making Max Money.
You make good points but to say that Memo doesn't qulify as a "good to great center" seems a little crazy to me.
Not only that but I'm not buying the whole "in order to win it all you HAVE to have _______". There is always an exception. Bigjazzfan has been pushing that line for months now and I'm still not buying it.
On another topic, the Jazz payroll situation will get really interesting next year if they don't make any major moves.
If Okur stays healthy next season he's going to opt out and the Jazz will be looking at 10-14Mil a year to keep him.
Boozer is opting out, and if the Jazz even want to think about keeping him they will have to offer max money.
Heart and Collins will be off the payroll
Harpring may or may not retire.
Millsap, Price, and possibly Miles will be free agents. Depending on the year Millsap has I think he could be worth anywhere from 2-6 Mil. If Price plays as well as he did at the end of last season he could draw offers in the 2-3 mil range.
D-Will will start making Max Money.
magnus | 11:40 p.m. July 6, 2008
So here are the salaries I would estimate for all of these players starting in
2009
Okur � 12 mil
Boozer � 16 mil
William � 16 mil
AK � 16.5 mil
Harpring - 6.5 mil
Korver � 5.1 mil
Brewer � 2.7 mil
Almond � 1.1 mil
Fesenko - .9 mil
Millsap � 3 mil
Kufos � 1.5 mil
Miles � 2 mil
Price � 2.5 mil
Total � $87.3 Million
That would likely give the Jazz the highest payroll in the NBA. Also, assuming a salary cap around $60 Million and a Luxury Tax threshold of around $70 million, Larry Miller would be paying about $105 million a year for the player salaries.
I just don't see that happening. Okur and/or Boozer and/or AK will not be with the Jazz at the start of the 2009-2010 season. Right now my money is on Boozer just because I think he would like to go to Miami, but for sure one of them has to go.
Okur � 12 mil
Boozer � 16 mil
William � 16 mil
AK � 16.5 mil
Harpring - 6.5 mil
Korver � 5.1 mil
Brewer � 2.7 mil
Almond � 1.1 mil
Fesenko - .9 mil
Millsap � 3 mil
Kufos � 1.5 mil
Miles � 2 mil
Price � 2.5 mil
Total � $87.3 Million
That would likely give the Jazz the highest payroll in the NBA. Also, assuming a salary cap around $60 Million and a Luxury Tax threshold of around $70 million, Larry Miller would be paying about $105 million a year for the player salaries.
I just don't see that happening. Okur and/or Boozer and/or AK will not be with the Jazz at the start of the 2009-2010 season. Right now my money is on Boozer just because I think he would like to go to Miami, but for sure one of them has to go.
Basketkase | 8:31 a.m. July 7, 2008
Instead of going after Maggette, the Jazz need to resign Raul Lopez, whom I
believe was the greatest little white point guard to ever play for the
organization. People always mention this Stockton guy, but actually, Lopez is
the better player. And then the Jazz need to sign more guys like Jason Hart,
since he's been very productive over the last year. I hear that Curtis
Borchardt is coming out of retirement, so the Jazz should pick him up too, as I
think he will blossom into a perrenial force in the paint.
Sarcasm aside, the mere fact that the Jazz want Maggette is a warning sign. Let him go to some other team, and let's focus on bringing back Lopez. I think Deron Williams would have no problem coming off the bench to relieve this Spanish superstar.
Sarcasm aside, the mere fact that the Jazz want Maggette is a warning sign. Let him go to some other team, and let's focus on bringing back Lopez. I think Deron Williams would have no problem coming off the bench to relieve this Spanish superstar.
Dixie | 12:10 p.m. July 7, 2008
What about Jose Ortiz? Is he still available?
Moto X | 2:12 p.m. July 7, 2008
4Jazz
re: I'm with 4Jazz
You are both wrong. Whoever responded to "4Jazz" is right. Magette is better than any 2 guard we have. Sure our guys are young and have "potential" but coaches get fired for potential and they get contract extensions if players actually perform (see Magette--proven performer).
Sure Brewer is athletic but can't throw it in the ocean--he is the the worst jumpshooting % guard in the NBA--any more questions?? Korver and Almond can't defend a stationary fire hydrant. CJ is also full of "potential" but can not seem to translate that to consistent performance on the floor--he has some bad defensive lapses as well. TRANSLATION:THIS IS WHY WE HAVE ALL THESE 2 GUARDS PILED UP--NONE OF THEM ALONE CAN DO THE JOB!!!! DUH!!!
We will not win with "potential"--we will win when somebody gets the job done on the floor in actual games.
On the other hand, Magette scored 22pts/game last season. He can also play decent defense AND he gets to the line for MORE FT's than any other shooting guard in the NBA. Anymore questions?
You are entitled to your opinion though, even if it is wrong.
re: I'm with 4Jazz
You are both wrong. Whoever responded to "4Jazz" is right. Magette is better than any 2 guard we have. Sure our guys are young and have "potential" but coaches get fired for potential and they get contract extensions if players actually perform (see Magette--proven performer).
Sure Brewer is athletic but can't throw it in the ocean--he is the the worst jumpshooting % guard in the NBA--any more questions?? Korver and Almond can't defend a stationary fire hydrant. CJ is also full of "potential" but can not seem to translate that to consistent performance on the floor--he has some bad defensive lapses as well. TRANSLATION:THIS IS WHY WE HAVE ALL THESE 2 GUARDS PILED UP--NONE OF THEM ALONE CAN DO THE JOB!!!! DUH!!!
We will not win with "potential"--we will win when somebody gets the job done on the floor in actual games.
On the other hand, Magette scored 22pts/game last season. He can also play decent defense AND he gets to the line for MORE FT's than any other shooting guard in the NBA. Anymore questions?
You are entitled to your opinion though, even if it is wrong.
magnus | 3:55 p.m. July 7, 2008
@ Moto X
While I agree that Maggete is an overall upgrade over our current 2 guards I have to dissagree with you on a couple of points.
Fist of all Brewer is significantly better defender than Maggette and even though Brewer is one of the worst jump shooting guards in the league he still shot 56% from the field while averaging 12 points a game. Not only that but he averaged 1.7 steals and .9 turnovers a game, as compared to Maggette who averaged 1 steal and 2.8 turnovers. When you combine that with the fact that we are comparing Brewers 2nd year to Maggettes 9th I think a case can be made for investing in Brewer.
I think it would be great for the Jazz to get Maggette this year but it is not going to happen.
As I mentioned above I think the Jazz are going to need someone like Maggette to step in and start when Boozer leaves. I think a starting lineup of D-will, Maggette, Brewer, AK, and Memo with a second unit Price, Korver, CJ, Millsap, Kosta/Fes would be alot of fun to watch and would present some serious matchup problems for opposing teams.
While I agree that Maggete is an overall upgrade over our current 2 guards I have to dissagree with you on a couple of points.
Fist of all Brewer is significantly better defender than Maggette and even though Brewer is one of the worst jump shooting guards in the league he still shot 56% from the field while averaging 12 points a game. Not only that but he averaged 1.7 steals and .9 turnovers a game, as compared to Maggette who averaged 1 steal and 2.8 turnovers. When you combine that with the fact that we are comparing Brewers 2nd year to Maggettes 9th I think a case can be made for investing in Brewer.
I think it would be great for the Jazz to get Maggette this year but it is not going to happen.
As I mentioned above I think the Jazz are going to need someone like Maggette to step in and start when Boozer leaves. I think a starting lineup of D-will, Maggette, Brewer, AK, and Memo with a second unit Price, Korver, CJ, Millsap, Kosta/Fes would be alot of fun to watch and would present some serious matchup problems for opposing teams.
Bob | 9:33 p.m. July 7, 2008
A true bonafide center plays in the paint. How many times have you seen Okur
underneath the basket. I am not a Jazz fan so maybe I am biased but just about
every time I have watched the Jazz, Okur has been out of position. Being out in
3 point land doesn't qualify. The facts remain the same. Championship teams
have good to great centers. Shaq, Abdul-Jabbar, Duncan isn't a center but
he plays like one because he plays mostly in the paint. Ben Wallace,Bill
Cartwright,Bill Russell just to name a few.
Re: Bob | 9:19 a.m. July 8, 2008
Oh yeah and let's not forget Kendrick Perkins, one of the greatest centers
to ever grace a basketball court...
Seeing you're not even a Jazz fan, did you actually even watch a playoff game this year? An 11.8 rebound average isn't that bad for someone "out in 3 point land", is it?
Don't blame Memo, he actually stepped up his defense when it mattered. However, the Jazz indeed suffered a BIG let-down in the paint and its name rhymes with Snoozer.
Seeing you're not even a Jazz fan, did you actually even watch a playoff game this year? An 11.8 rebound average isn't that bad for someone "out in 3 point land", is it?
Don't blame Memo, he actually stepped up his defense when it mattered. However, the Jazz indeed suffered a BIG let-down in the paint and its name rhymes with Snoozer.
Moto X | 10:15 a.m. July 8, 2008
re: magnus
Brewers FG% is what it is because Brewer knows he has to dunk to score and so he lives by running the floor/baseline for high % shots. Kudos to him but that is not a real 2 guard role--we need to spread the floor on offense.
Magette has more turnovers because he handles the ball ALOT (22ppg ALOT)--Brewer rarely has the ball in his hands except when D-Will delivers it to him at the rim. Not much chance to turn it over.
Brewer is a VERY good thief but really not that great of a defender. Inside/outside Brewer was badly abused by Kobe and we quickly had to use other players like AK and Harpring who at least made admirable attempts. Brewer had minimal defensive affect. I agree he is young and should get better though.
My point was Magette could fulfill the REAL role of a shooting guard by spreading the floor--Brewer can not which causes massive problems for Booz to be able to operate. That is the essence of our offense.
I agree Magette won't be coming here but we would have a better chance to win now with Magette vs. Brewer.
Brewers FG% is what it is because Brewer knows he has to dunk to score and so he lives by running the floor/baseline for high % shots. Kudos to him but that is not a real 2 guard role--we need to spread the floor on offense.
Magette has more turnovers because he handles the ball ALOT (22ppg ALOT)--Brewer rarely has the ball in his hands except when D-Will delivers it to him at the rim. Not much chance to turn it over.
Brewer is a VERY good thief but really not that great of a defender. Inside/outside Brewer was badly abused by Kobe and we quickly had to use other players like AK and Harpring who at least made admirable attempts. Brewer had minimal defensive affect. I agree he is young and should get better though.
My point was Magette could fulfill the REAL role of a shooting guard by spreading the floor--Brewer can not which causes massive problems for Booz to be able to operate. That is the essence of our offense.
I agree Magette won't be coming here but we would have a better chance to win now with Magette vs. Brewer.
Bob | 10:44 a.m. July 8, 2008
Yes smart one. I watched more than one playoff game this year and for the last
30 years+ I have seen basketball in person and via other avenues. IT has always
been the same. There is no difference. Ostertag, Collins, horrible centers that
have held the Jazz back. As mentioned before for those that can't
comprehend. You need a good to great center. Perkins is not a great center but
he is good when healthy. A lot better of a center than Collins. Okur shooting
and rebounding are two entirely different things. It doesn't matter how
many rebounds you get if the other team scores 40 or 50 points in the paint. ll
rebounds a game by Okur isn't going to get you any wins to make a
difference. The Jazz only are capable of a mediocre seasons for always and
forever until they learn how to win on the road. Catch a clue all playoff games
are not @ home. The Celtics had to win games on the road become Champions. The
Jazz will never see a Championship ever until Miller is removed from ownership
and Sloan is gone. Jazz fans shouldn't make comments until they really
understand basketball.
magnus | 2:17 p.m. July 8, 2008
@ Moto X
I think we are in agreement then. I actually think the SF position might be a more natural fit for Brewer given his size athleticism and ability to finnish in the paint but in order to be effective there he needs to work on his strength and his post defense.
@ Bob
you're arrogance makes you funny. let's run down your points.
Point #1: You can't win it all without a good to great center.
A: like I said above the whole "you can't win it all with/without _____" is totaly bogus in my mind there is always an exception.
but I'll play your game, first off you are comparing the Jazz BACKUP Centers to other teams starters, second, here is a list of starting centers that are not better than Memo and have won championships in the last 20 years:
Fabricio Oberto, Kendrick Perkins, Rasho Nesterovic, Ben Walace, Luc Longley, Bill Wennington, and Bill Cartright.
Point #2: You have to win on the road LIKE THE CELTICS
The Celtics road record in the first three rounds of the playoffs was 1-8 so what was your point again?
I think we are in agreement then. I actually think the SF position might be a more natural fit for Brewer given his size athleticism and ability to finnish in the paint but in order to be effective there he needs to work on his strength and his post defense.
@ Bob
you're arrogance makes you funny. let's run down your points.
Point #1: You can't win it all without a good to great center.
A: like I said above the whole "you can't win it all with/without _____" is totaly bogus in my mind there is always an exception.
but I'll play your game, first off you are comparing the Jazz BACKUP Centers to other teams starters, second, here is a list of starting centers that are not better than Memo and have won championships in the last 20 years:
Fabricio Oberto, Kendrick Perkins, Rasho Nesterovic, Ben Walace, Luc Longley, Bill Wennington, and Bill Cartright.
Point #2: You have to win on the road LIKE THE CELTICS
The Celtics road record in the first three rounds of the playoffs was 1-8 so what was your point again?
Bob | 10:34 p.m. July 8, 2008
Many of those centers listed are better than Okur. They are good to great. Okur
plays out of position. The fact of the matter is they play and have played the
position of a true center. The center plays in the paint and is located close to
the area of the basket. The whole point I was making is that Okur does not play
in the paint therefore he is not a regular center with talent. Once in a while
he will clinch a game with his exhorbant three point attempts. One day you will
get the point and not be so hard headed and crying foul. As far as winning on
the road the Jazz suck on the road. The Jazz broadcasters even said the Jazz are
awful on the road and they need to learn how to win on the road. Yep the Celtics
didn't win many road games in the Playoffs but they still won enough to get
them into the Championship Finals round and win the whole thing. And the Jazz
went home again with their tails between their legs.
It is not arrogance my boy, just common basic knowledge in dealing with the facts.
It is not arrogance my boy, just common basic knowledge in dealing with the facts.
magnus | 1:29 a.m. July 9, 2008
thats all fine and dandy but that's not what you said. You are changing
your arguments on the fly because your original arguments didn't hold
up.
And I quote: "Catch a clue all playoff games are not @ home. The Celtics had to win games on the road become Champions."
The Jazz won as many games on the road in the playoffs as the Celtics did, you didn't say a word about the regular season utill I called you on it.
Most of the people who know basketball on these posts acknowlege the fact that the Jazz need a defensive presence inside to BACKUP Okur. All of those centers I listed with the exception of Ben Wallace (who is only a center because he can't do anything outside the paint, 6'9" 240lbs please, that's no center) played less than 26 minutes a game for their teams when they won the Championship. You know what that means? Those teams played nearly half of every game without a "good to great center" on the floor.
Nobody is going to argue with you that the Jazz need to upgrade their interior defense, but that doesn't mean replacing Okur.
And I quote: "Catch a clue all playoff games are not @ home. The Celtics had to win games on the road become Champions."
The Jazz won as many games on the road in the playoffs as the Celtics did, you didn't say a word about the regular season utill I called you on it.
Most of the people who know basketball on these posts acknowlege the fact that the Jazz need a defensive presence inside to BACKUP Okur. All of those centers I listed with the exception of Ben Wallace (who is only a center because he can't do anything outside the paint, 6'9" 240lbs please, that's no center) played less than 26 minutes a game for their teams when they won the Championship. You know what that means? Those teams played nearly half of every game without a "good to great center" on the floor.
Nobody is going to argue with you that the Jazz need to upgrade their interior defense, but that doesn't mean replacing Okur.
rain on your parade | 9:06 p.m. July 10, 2008
@Bob
Ever think of Michael Jordan's team. They never had a dominant center.
Ever think of Michael Jordan's team. They never had a dominant center.
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