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G. Donald Gale: Blame politicians for disillusionment of Utahns
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Jeff | 7:58 a.m. July 5, 2008
Many of us were relieved when Don Gale stopped giving his opinions on KSL-TV.
It's too bad the Deseret News gives him ink. Over the years, Don Gale has
showed his liberal true colors, from the role of government to social issues,
Don Gale pontificates poorly thought out excuses for a progressive (leftist)
agenda and a big government utopia. Enough already. Let him go away.
Retired n Broke | 8:16 a.m. July 5, 2008
AMEN!!!!!
Comments continue below
Grandma Jean | 8:35 a.m. July 5, 2008
I think this article explains it all. I was a delegate to the SL County
convention a few years ago. Imagine my dismay when I arrived to find that there
were simply no choices to the incumbent, who incidentally, I wanted to vote
against. I have never participated in neighborhood caucuses since.
It seems strange when one doesn't agree with the status quo to remain at home when it's time to vote. But when the status quo is the only choice, it hardly seems worth the effort to leave your busy life to vote. The main reason I voted in the Primary this year was to vote for Chaffetz. I know very little about this man other than the fact that he isn't Chris Cannon who has forgotten that his positions should reflect those of his constituents.
It seems strange when one doesn't agree with the status quo to remain at home when it's time to vote. But when the status quo is the only choice, it hardly seems worth the effort to leave your busy life to vote. The main reason I voted in the Primary this year was to vote for Chaffetz. I know very little about this man other than the fact that he isn't Chris Cannon who has forgotten that his positions should reflect those of his constituents.
BBKing | 8:39 a.m. July 5, 2008
The author has a realy hit n miss record, in my opinion. At times he has great
op-eds, other times no so great. This is one of them.
He provides a litany of complaints though some of them are pretty weak, and others are just scary.
Take his concern about some law that allows up to 15 people to be on the ballot for school board. Not familiar with that law. Nor have I ever heard of 15 candidates signing up for one race. So is he proposing a law that limits the number of candidates for office? First 5 get on the ballot, 6 and beyond do a write-in? Wouldn't last a motion to dimiss due to 1st Amendment grounds.
And if the Democrats held power does he think they would make all decisions on the front lawn? I have worked around other state legislatures run by Democrats and they conduct themselves the same as Republicans in Utah.
Instead of beating up on Republicans he should focus on his own party. Democrats have been so extreme people would vote for a dead dog over them, and frequently do. Not our fault.
Primarys should be in September though.
He provides a litany of complaints though some of them are pretty weak, and others are just scary.
Take his concern about some law that allows up to 15 people to be on the ballot for school board. Not familiar with that law. Nor have I ever heard of 15 candidates signing up for one race. So is he proposing a law that limits the number of candidates for office? First 5 get on the ballot, 6 and beyond do a write-in? Wouldn't last a motion to dimiss due to 1st Amendment grounds.
And if the Democrats held power does he think they would make all decisions on the front lawn? I have worked around other state legislatures run by Democrats and they conduct themselves the same as Republicans in Utah.
Instead of beating up on Republicans he should focus on his own party. Democrats have been so extreme people would vote for a dead dog over them, and frequently do. Not our fault.
Primarys should be in September though.
Clair Ellis | 9:00 a.m. July 5, 2008
"Caring citizens who attend neighborhood caucuses but question the
predetermined outcome are ignored, ridiculed and marginalized."
That is worth repeating, because Mr. Gale is a prime offender, when their choices don't fit his predetermined outcomes. It was those locally-elected delegates who chose to limit their party's elections to party members, who press for education choice and more conservative school boards, who renominated that "unpopular" lawmaker by a 60% vote, and who want to split huge school districts into manageable chunks.
By the way, in a democracy, a political party can only become "dominant" by being popular. In Mr. Gale's next editorial against name-calling, he might call the Republican Party the "popular political party," which describes it in a less contrived and negative way. Doing anything else ignores, ridicules and marginalizes the pro-Republican choices made over the years by Utah's voters.
That is worth repeating, because Mr. Gale is a prime offender, when their choices don't fit his predetermined outcomes. It was those locally-elected delegates who chose to limit their party's elections to party members, who press for education choice and more conservative school boards, who renominated that "unpopular" lawmaker by a 60% vote, and who want to split huge school districts into manageable chunks.
By the way, in a democracy, a political party can only become "dominant" by being popular. In Mr. Gale's next editorial against name-calling, he might call the Republican Party the "popular political party," which describes it in a less contrived and negative way. Doing anything else ignores, ridicules and marginalizes the pro-Republican choices made over the years by Utah's voters.
Professor | 9:02 a.m. July 5, 2008
Mr. Gale says "powerful interest groups" pushed the district split
bill.
First, that is old news. That bill was passed years ago. It is new news because a district has split and pure greed is clouding the issue.
Second Gale can't identify the "powerful interest groups" wanting the split bill. Why? The special interest group Gale speaks about are parents and citizens! They pushed this bill. They were tired of being pushed around by "powerful districts" who don't listen.
Third, perhaps it should be easier to split a district. Many districts have grown into huge and powerful special interests groups. For an example, Alpine School District now has a half billion dollar budget and close to 60,000 student. It takes over 45 minutes to drive from one end of the district to the other. Parents are routinely brushed off.
Fourth, If it is "TOO EASY" to split a district, why has only one district been able to split so far?
First, that is old news. That bill was passed years ago. It is new news because a district has split and pure greed is clouding the issue.
Second Gale can't identify the "powerful interest groups" wanting the split bill. Why? The special interest group Gale speaks about are parents and citizens! They pushed this bill. They were tired of being pushed around by "powerful districts" who don't listen.
Third, perhaps it should be easier to split a district. Many districts have grown into huge and powerful special interests groups. For an example, Alpine School District now has a half billion dollar budget and close to 60,000 student. It takes over 45 minutes to drive from one end of the district to the other. Parents are routinely brushed off.
Fourth, If it is "TOO EASY" to split a district, why has only one district been able to split so far?
EdM | 10:35 a.m. July 5, 2008
Thank you Mr. Gale for hitting it on the nose. I would never thought I would
ever say this but I do hope that the "old guard" of the Republican
Party takes it back before it is too late. Vote out Bramble, Curtis, Stephenson
and Valentine.
Anonymous | 10:36 a.m. July 5, 2008
The "dominant political party"? Oh, brother! Sorry Don - but how many
primaries did your party have?
I'll tell you: three. One for a state house seat (districts cover about 35,000 people) and two more in very small counties (Wastach & Carbon). That's it. Three.
I'll agree with Gale that Republican Party leaders are out-of-touch and sometimes even corrupt - but that out-of-touchness often comes in the form of them being MORE liberal (like Chris Cannon on immigration) than their voters would like them to be.
So Don Gale (a Democrat) doesn't like closed primaries? Bummer. Why should he be allowed to choose both his own party's nominees and those of my party, as well?
And the tax subsidies for the soccer stadium? Personally I opposed them, but as a Sandy resident I'm also well aware that certain other cities (I have in mind a certain state capitol) get far more taxpayer subsidies than Sandy does. So why does the media in this state go all ape when Sandy gets subsidies but not when Salt Lake City gets them?
I'll tell you: three. One for a state house seat (districts cover about 35,000 people) and two more in very small counties (Wastach & Carbon). That's it. Three.
I'll agree with Gale that Republican Party leaders are out-of-touch and sometimes even corrupt - but that out-of-touchness often comes in the form of them being MORE liberal (like Chris Cannon on immigration) than their voters would like them to be.
So Don Gale (a Democrat) doesn't like closed primaries? Bummer. Why should he be allowed to choose both his own party's nominees and those of my party, as well?
And the tax subsidies for the soccer stadium? Personally I opposed them, but as a Sandy resident I'm also well aware that certain other cities (I have in mind a certain state capitol) get far more taxpayer subsidies than Sandy does. So why does the media in this state go all ape when Sandy gets subsidies but not when Salt Lake City gets them?
Anonymous | 11:08 a.m. July 5, 2008
As for split districts? Studies have found that smaller districts generally tend
to be both more efficient and also lead to better schools. This is because
cities compete with each other to have better programs to keep their property
values high. This would be especially true in Salt Lake County, which is divided
up into numerous small cities rather than having one single big city.
But Democrats like Gale don't want the government to do well - they just want it to be monopolistic. "Equality" is more important than quality - as they then send their own kids to private schools, as Scott Matheson did. One single school district, headquartered in Washington, D.C., would be quite enough for people like Gale.
But Democrats like Gale don't want the government to do well - they just want it to be monopolistic. "Equality" is more important than quality - as they then send their own kids to private schools, as Scott Matheson did. One single school district, headquartered in Washington, D.C., would be quite enough for people like Gale.
Anonymous | 11:29 a.m. July 5, 2008
If I was a die-hard, grandpa was a Republican - so I am too person, I think
I'd wouldn't want to show my face in public.
Anonymous | 12:42 p.m. July 5, 2008
Utah, the reddest state in America rightfully earns that distinction - red in
the face and red-necked.
Mike Richards | 2:20 p.m. July 5, 2008
While I do not agree with Mr. Gale's conclusions, I do agree that the
voters in Utah just don't care. They are either too lazy, too apathetic,
or too unpatriotic to participate in the election process.
A citizen has the duty to be informed and then to cast a ballot. Most citizens meet the legal qualifications to run for office - if they can't support those who are already running for office. Those who don't meet the age or residency requirements can still be active in the process by campaigning for the candidate of their choice.
But, to stay home and to do nothing is to spit upon the graves of all who paid the ultimate price that preserved the freedom to vote.
A citizen has the duty to be informed and then to cast a ballot. Most citizens meet the legal qualifications to run for office - if they can't support those who are already running for office. Those who don't meet the age or residency requirements can still be active in the process by campaigning for the candidate of their choice.
But, to stay home and to do nothing is to spit upon the graves of all who paid the ultimate price that preserved the freedom to vote.
Jud | 2:19 p.m. July 5, 2008
Thanks, Don Gale, for continuing to be a voice of reason in a wilderness of
right-wing craziness.
What's a Conservative to Do? | 2:19 p.m. July 5, 2008
Republicans are losing the conservative core. Family values are losing to
religious bigotry of the south that was only too prevalent in the Republican
primary. Free capitalism is losing to corporate overtaxation of small
businesses and corporate socailism of major businesses.
Freedom of educational choices lost to the very non-conservative education lobby that is overtaking the party in Utah.
Its enough to turn a conservative into a Libertarian. Which is my vote this year.
Freedom of educational choices lost to the very non-conservative education lobby that is overtaking the party in Utah.
Its enough to turn a conservative into a Libertarian. Which is my vote this year.
John | 4:18 p.m. July 5, 2008
As a long-time Republican, I totally agree with Don Gale. It is refreshing to
have someone like Don who is willing to tell it the way it really is. The Utah
Repuablican leadership is so power hungry that they appear to be willing to do
anything, and even want to increase their dominance.
Eleven | 4:32 p.m. July 5, 2008
You forgot Eleven...Don Gale is a retard.
S.B. 101? Don't know? Don't vote | 5:12 p.m. July 5, 2008
Mike Richards,
"A citizen has the duty to be informed and then to cast a ballot."
Citizens don't have a duty to be informed or cast a ballot. Their duty is to God, family and themselves and voting is secondary to these.
"Most citizens meet the legal qualifications to run for office - if they can't support those who are already running for office. Those who don't meet the age or residency requirements can still be active in the process by campaigning for the candidate of their choice."
Why should they? You have given no valid reason why someone should take time to study the issues and specific legislation that the candidate will be voting on.
"But, to stay home and to do nothing is to spit upon the graves of all who paid the ultimate price that preserved the freedom to vote."
You don't get it. Some of us don't care about the right to vote. It's notimportant. The right to vote has become a substitute for our real rights and has replaced real discussion with partisan politics and all we do is debate and vote. Talk to me about the bill and then I will vote.
"A citizen has the duty to be informed and then to cast a ballot."
Citizens don't have a duty to be informed or cast a ballot. Their duty is to God, family and themselves and voting is secondary to these.
"Most citizens meet the legal qualifications to run for office - if they can't support those who are already running for office. Those who don't meet the age or residency requirements can still be active in the process by campaigning for the candidate of their choice."
Why should they? You have given no valid reason why someone should take time to study the issues and specific legislation that the candidate will be voting on.
"But, to stay home and to do nothing is to spit upon the graves of all who paid the ultimate price that preserved the freedom to vote."
You don't get it. Some of us don't care about the right to vote. It's notimportant. The right to vote has become a substitute for our real rights and has replaced real discussion with partisan politics and all we do is debate and vote. Talk to me about the bill and then I will vote.
Your family of voters are retard | 5:26 p.m. July 5, 2008
Eleven,
"You forgot Eleven...Don Gale is a retard."
You forgot Twelve...No one cares what you think so shut your mouth and vote because Don Gale has more brains than you will ever have. Now take your damn vote and shove it.
Your attacks on Don Gale are unwarranted and you are a moron, retard and now that you insult him his family has the right to come after your family too. If this is the kind of politics you want because you have never read a single bill before Congress than so be it. But I have had it! I hope that Don Gale's writes an expose on your family and that he comes after you like you have come after the Gales and I hope members of his ward who are his friends tell you where you can go with your damn vote.
If this was my father I would tell you where you damn voter wife, damn voter child and damn voter brother can go. Let's talk about the real retards and let's start with that dimwit Cindy McCain who is the child of a bunch of losers. It is no wonder that this loser married a loser.
"You forgot Eleven...Don Gale is a retard."
You forgot Twelve...No one cares what you think so shut your mouth and vote because Don Gale has more brains than you will ever have. Now take your damn vote and shove it.
Your attacks on Don Gale are unwarranted and you are a moron, retard and now that you insult him his family has the right to come after your family too. If this is the kind of politics you want because you have never read a single bill before Congress than so be it. But I have had it! I hope that Don Gale's writes an expose on your family and that he comes after you like you have come after the Gales and I hope members of his ward who are his friends tell you where you can go with your damn vote.
If this was my father I would tell you where you damn voter wife, damn voter child and damn voter brother can go. Let's talk about the real retards and let's start with that dimwit Cindy McCain who is the child of a bunch of losers. It is no wonder that this loser married a loser.
GOP corruption | 6:47 p.m. July 5, 2008
It's an old adage that "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts
absolutely." The Republican party has had most of the power in Utah for so
long that it is now mostly corrupted.
It is time for Utah LDS to exercise agency and vote Democrat, for the important issues: the economy, healthcare, education, environment, war. These are the true moral values.
"Gay marriage" and other GOP distractions are irrelevant to the realities of Utah. Provo will never become like San Fransisco, but all families need affordable healthcare, clean air & water, decent schools and an end to this crazy trillion dollar war in Iraq.
It is time for Utah LDS to exercise agency and vote Democrat, for the important issues: the economy, healthcare, education, environment, war. These are the true moral values.
"Gay marriage" and other GOP distractions are irrelevant to the realities of Utah. Provo will never become like San Fransisco, but all families need affordable healthcare, clean air & water, decent schools and an end to this crazy trillion dollar war in Iraq.
Lee Padron | 7:10 p.m. July 5, 2008
Thank you Mr. Gale . . . for retiring and giving only one place at which to
avoid your liberal left leaning rants.
Now, please try to understand one thing about "CLOSED PRIMARIES." It makes NO sense for Democrats to vote in Republican primaries and vice versa. A primary is an extension of the convention process to the "Party" general electorate. A primary is an means by which the power brokers and back room dealers can be bypassed. That's what happened with Chris Cannon. The broader "Republican" base beyond the convention had their say. They said go away to Chris Cannon.
Now, Don Gale . . . please go away . . . and just enjoy your retirment already. The rest of us are.
Lee Padron
Now, please try to understand one thing about "CLOSED PRIMARIES." It makes NO sense for Democrats to vote in Republican primaries and vice versa. A primary is an extension of the convention process to the "Party" general electorate. A primary is an means by which the power brokers and back room dealers can be bypassed. That's what happened with Chris Cannon. The broader "Republican" base beyond the convention had their say. They said go away to Chris Cannon.
Now, Don Gale . . . please go away . . . and just enjoy your retirment already. The rest of us are.
Lee Padron
Anonymous | 7:15 p.m. July 5, 2008
*** "Utah, the reddest state in America rightfully earns that distinction -
red in the face and red-necked." ***
That's why we have one of the lowest violent crime rates along wih one of the highest college graduation rates.
That's why we have one of the lowest violent crime rates along wih one of the highest college graduation rates.
I didn't vote | 7:38 p.m. July 5, 2008
. . . in the primary because there was exactly 1 race on the ballot in my
district, and I didn't care which Republican ran for state treasurer in the
general election.
My wife even lamented on primary day "In our district we don't even get to vote against Chris Cannon!"
To Don, all that ails Utah government is the GOP's fault.
Gale could have titled his op/ed Why I Hate Republicans, and used the same ten points.
My wife even lamented on primary day "In our district we don't even get to vote against Chris Cannon!"
To Don, all that ails Utah government is the GOP's fault.
Gale could have titled his op/ed Why I Hate Republicans, and used the same ten points.
Give Me A Break | 7:44 p.m. July 5, 2008
Blame the cynical media for the disillusionment of Utahns. Mr Gale, you just
need to look in the mirror. Your angry vitriol does a disservice to the public.
A grass roots Reagan conservativ | 7:45 p.m. July 5, 2008
Don Gale is right on.
SLDrone | 9:03 p.m. July 5, 2008
There was a time I bled republican. I almost worshipped Reagan. Things have
changed on the the local and national stages. Thanks Don for the great
analysis. It's almost amusing to read the responses from the readers of
"the Lord's" newspaper. Thank GOODNESS the Trib has a much
larger readership and an editorial staff less beholden to the emporer. You
might want to consider your venue. Then again, why preach to the choir? You
stay right where you are Don. Line upon line, precept on precept.
Mike Richards | 9:08 p.m. July 5, 2008
To 5:12,
"Citizens don't have a duty to be informed or cast a ballot. Their duty is to God, family and themselves and voting is secondary to these."
Is that what you really believe? Do you really think that you could do your duty to God, family and yourself in a country without Freedom? Do you really believe that you can feast at the table of Freedom and not even take the time to know who represents you, who stands as your proxy, who taxes you, who limits your God given Freedoms?
In the most Republican State in the Nation, about 10% of the voters found the time, the will, and the desire to participate in Agency. Yes, that is right. God's gift of Agency to choose for ourselves whom we would have stand as our proxy in Government was ignored by 90% of the voters. How's that for being thankful for Freedom? How's does that show honor and respect towards God?
Apathy is one step away from slavery, but, if you don't care than it won't matter to you when you have no choice - after all, exercising Freedom is just asking too much from lazy, uncaring, spoiled citizens.
"Citizens don't have a duty to be informed or cast a ballot. Their duty is to God, family and themselves and voting is secondary to these."
Is that what you really believe? Do you really think that you could do your duty to God, family and yourself in a country without Freedom? Do you really believe that you can feast at the table of Freedom and not even take the time to know who represents you, who stands as your proxy, who taxes you, who limits your God given Freedoms?
In the most Republican State in the Nation, about 10% of the voters found the time, the will, and the desire to participate in Agency. Yes, that is right. God's gift of Agency to choose for ourselves whom we would have stand as our proxy in Government was ignored by 90% of the voters. How's that for being thankful for Freedom? How's does that show honor and respect towards God?
Apathy is one step away from slavery, but, if you don't care than it won't matter to you when you have no choice - after all, exercising Freedom is just asking too much from lazy, uncaring, spoiled citizens.
to Mike Richards | 9:31 p.m. July 5, 2008
Wealthy Republicans never like high general turnout, because the richer tend to
vote much more than the poorer, so the GOP can win even though there are more
poorer than there are richer.
For social conservatives, who don't seem to care about the economy, the GOP trots out abortion and gay marriage but never actually blocks either once they get power.
The net result: middle income and lower-middle income Utah families, many LDS with large families, don't bother to vote because of the conflict between their economic needs and their conservative values.
For social conservatives, who don't seem to care about the economy, the GOP trots out abortion and gay marriage but never actually blocks either once they get power.
The net result: middle income and lower-middle income Utah families, many LDS with large families, don't bother to vote because of the conflict between their economic needs and their conservative values.
Ditto | 9:55 p.m. July 5, 2008
Don Gale got it exactly right as did EdM. In addition to Bramble, Curtis,
Valentine, and Stephenson, Sandy voters need to dump Greg Hughes. He wants
everyone to agree with him or he has a tamtrum -- or worse.
We don't need politicians who insist in absolute loyalty with no heed of ethics.
Keep it up, Don Gale and Bob Bernick.
We don't need politicians who insist in absolute loyalty with no heed of ethics.
Keep it up, Don Gale and Bob Bernick.
I'm done with you Mikey. Shut it | 10:02 p.m. July 5, 2008
Mike Richards,
"Is that what you really believe? Do you really think that you could do your duty to God, family and yourself in a country without Freedom?"
That's not what I said and I don't appreciate a jerk twisting what I said to mean something it doesn't so he can make a point.
"Apathy is one step away from slavery, but, if you don't care than it won't matter to you when you have no choice - after all, exercising Freedom is just asking too much from lazy, uncaring, spoiled citizens."
I'm not lazy, uncaring or spoiled but your sure as heck are acting like that. You want to equate the right vote to slavery. If that is not the height of arrogance. You compare what slaves went through to the right to vote? That's sick!
Don't you dare bring my God into this you loser. Shut your mouth you lying, spoiled, rotten, evil and immoral jerk. You want to talk about slavery. Those who agree with you are far from God. So let me understand you: If I don't vote I'm not free. Tell me what else I need to do to be free Master Richards.
"Is that what you really believe? Do you really think that you could do your duty to God, family and yourself in a country without Freedom?"
That's not what I said and I don't appreciate a jerk twisting what I said to mean something it doesn't so he can make a point.
"Apathy is one step away from slavery, but, if you don't care than it won't matter to you when you have no choice - after all, exercising Freedom is just asking too much from lazy, uncaring, spoiled citizens."
I'm not lazy, uncaring or spoiled but your sure as heck are acting like that. You want to equate the right vote to slavery. If that is not the height of arrogance. You compare what slaves went through to the right to vote? That's sick!
Don't you dare bring my God into this you loser. Shut your mouth you lying, spoiled, rotten, evil and immoral jerk. You want to talk about slavery. Those who agree with you are far from God. So let me understand you: If I don't vote I'm not free. Tell me what else I need to do to be free Master Richards.
Mike Richards | 10:09 p.m. July 5, 2008
To 9:31,
Although your premise is interesting, I don't think that it applies.
The courts determine abortion and gay rights. Just look at California. The people voted, and five people on the court voted to overrule the votes of millions of citizens. Laws have already been legislated - and ignored by the courts.
To intimate that LDS people have their hand out for Government largess, shows very little understanding of the teachings and the doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I'm 58 years old, and I have never heard anyone in authority ever speak over the pulpit and tell any memeber to look to the Goverment for aid. That is totally contrary to self-reliance.
LDS members know that taking from the Government when the Government takes from someone else is stealing. As a people, we give freely to others, but we don't take from the Government, at least as a Church. Of cource, individuals can do whatever they want, but we're counciled to NOT look to the Government.
You may have noticed that attitude in the multitude of posts in the DN that oppose Liberal Government being portrayed as the solution to society's ills.
Although your premise is interesting, I don't think that it applies.
The courts determine abortion and gay rights. Just look at California. The people voted, and five people on the court voted to overrule the votes of millions of citizens. Laws have already been legislated - and ignored by the courts.
To intimate that LDS people have their hand out for Government largess, shows very little understanding of the teachings and the doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I'm 58 years old, and I have never heard anyone in authority ever speak over the pulpit and tell any memeber to look to the Goverment for aid. That is totally contrary to self-reliance.
LDS members know that taking from the Government when the Government takes from someone else is stealing. As a people, we give freely to others, but we don't take from the Government, at least as a Church. Of cource, individuals can do whatever they want, but we're counciled to NOT look to the Government.
You may have noticed that attitude in the multitude of posts in the DN that oppose Liberal Government being portrayed as the solution to society's ills.
I believe Monson, not O'Reilly | 10:12 p.m. July 5, 2008
"For social conservatives, who don't seem to care about the economy,
the GOP trots out abortion and gay marriage but never actually blocks either
once they get power."
The Church's position on abortion isn't consistent with the Republican Party or with conservatives whose believe are extreme and everytime a Democrat in Utah re-states the position of the Church on the issue of abortion Republicans call Democrats "baby-killers" and other names for taking a position that is consistent with that of the Church. They do so not even realizing they are calling the Prophet a baby-killer.
"The net result: middle income and lower-middle income Utah families, many LDS with large families, don't bother to vote because of the conflict between their economic needs and their conservative values."
I don't see a conflict. On almost every issue that makes a person a social conservative I'm a liberal because of the teachings of the Church, prophets and scriptures. The evangelical right has hijacked the Republican Party and now it is pitted against the teachings of the Church. When Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly says something on air that disagree with the teachings of the Prophet conservatives choose to listen to talking heads.
The Church's position on abortion isn't consistent with the Republican Party or with conservatives whose believe are extreme and everytime a Democrat in Utah re-states the position of the Church on the issue of abortion Republicans call Democrats "baby-killers" and other names for taking a position that is consistent with that of the Church. They do so not even realizing they are calling the Prophet a baby-killer.
"The net result: middle income and lower-middle income Utah families, many LDS with large families, don't bother to vote because of the conflict between their economic needs and their conservative values."
I don't see a conflict. On almost every issue that makes a person a social conservative I'm a liberal because of the teachings of the Church, prophets and scriptures. The evangelical right has hijacked the Republican Party and now it is pitted against the teachings of the Church. When Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly says something on air that disagree with the teachings of the Prophet conservatives choose to listen to talking heads.
Mike Richards | 10:23 p.m. July 5, 2008
To 10:02,
Looks like I found the hot button, didn't I.
Slaves can't vote. They have no rights. What is the difference between someone who can't vote and someone who won't vote? The net effect is the same.
Yesterday was the 4th of July. The day that we declared that we wanted to be a free people. The day that we declared that we would VOTE for our own representatives. The day that we declared that GOD gave us certain unalienable rights.
Our fore-fathers paid the price for you to feast at the table of Freedom. Don't give me your excuses as you ask for another huge helping of Freedom without even having the curtesy to punch a ballot.
You don't want to vote? That's fine. Just remember, I vote. So, if you don't vote, then I make your choices for you. How does that sound to you?
Looks like I found the hot button, didn't I.
Slaves can't vote. They have no rights. What is the difference between someone who can't vote and someone who won't vote? The net effect is the same.
Yesterday was the 4th of July. The day that we declared that we wanted to be a free people. The day that we declared that we would VOTE for our own representatives. The day that we declared that GOD gave us certain unalienable rights.
Our fore-fathers paid the price for you to feast at the table of Freedom. Don't give me your excuses as you ask for another huge helping of Freedom without even having the curtesy to punch a ballot.
You don't want to vote? That's fine. Just remember, I vote. So, if you don't vote, then I make your choices for you. How does that sound to you?
Don Gale | 11:09 p.m. July 5, 2008
Ain't he dead yet? Quite pimpin for the UEA, Grandpa.
Because | 11:17 p.m. July 5, 2008
There's a dominant political party, as described in the article.
That's why.
on vacation | 11:32 p.m. July 5, 2008
Have to agree with Mike. In our Republic, informed voting for our
representatives is an essential task, yes, even duty!, of citizenship!
The other list- God, family, and self - may be a religious hierarchy, but citizenship in a country requires as much attention to make the social fabric of that country great as attention to much more personal relationships.
I am shocked that someone who suggests that he/she holds a strong sense of responsibility to God, family, and self would not realize how important a sense of responsibility to strengthen the goodness and fairness of our country is.
Shame on any of you who merely slung mud in ad hominem attacks on authors and commentators rather than offer sensible opinions directed to the content.
Don't let the Republicans decide the results of all elections in their conventions. Register and participate at the caucuses to help get candidates who are more moderate!!!! If you can't do that, stop voting for the person with an R by the name! Period!
The other list- God, family, and self - may be a religious hierarchy, but citizenship in a country requires as much attention to make the social fabric of that country great as attention to much more personal relationships.
I am shocked that someone who suggests that he/she holds a strong sense of responsibility to God, family, and self would not realize how important a sense of responsibility to strengthen the goodness and fairness of our country is.
Shame on any of you who merely slung mud in ad hominem attacks on authors and commentators rather than offer sensible opinions directed to the content.
Don't let the Republicans decide the results of all elections in their conventions. Register and participate at the caucuses to help get candidates who are more moderate!!!! If you can't do that, stop voting for the person with an R by the name! Period!
Quiet Observer | 12:45 a.m. July 6, 2008
Make no mistake, our misguided Republican leadership (e.g. Curtis, Hughes,
Valentine, Bramble, Stephenson, Clark, Buttars, and Lockhart) hold to the
following list of priorities: 1) themselves, 2) lobbyists and rich friends, 3)
the public that is held in contempt and distrusted by the leadership.
Speaking of the public; let's be honest Utah. Patriotism isn't about waving the flag, defending your own self-absorbed version of the family, or going to church. It's about using you own brains to make informed choices and VOTING to ensure the freedom and well-being of us all. Utah's dismal voting record is a harsh indictment of the state and underscores this gross hypocrisy.
Speaking of the public; let's be honest Utah. Patriotism isn't about waving the flag, defending your own self-absorbed version of the family, or going to church. It's about using you own brains to make informed choices and VOTING to ensure the freedom and well-being of us all. Utah's dismal voting record is a harsh indictment of the state and underscores this gross hypocrisy.
JM Bell | 8:05 a.m. July 6, 2008
Dominant political party?
Hey, Joe Cannon, get your grubby fingers out of the op/ed section. That phrase read like a speed bump throughout the whole article. Gale is a better writer than that. To interrupt the flow with a disingenuous phrasing like that smells a lot like the work of a guy who has never written anything but a rehash of RNC talking points.
Hey, Joe Cannon, get your grubby fingers out of the op/ed section. That phrase read like a speed bump throughout the whole article. Gale is a better writer than that. To interrupt the flow with a disingenuous phrasing like that smells a lot like the work of a guy who has never written anything but a rehash of RNC talking points.
arc | 12:52 p.m. July 6, 2008
While there is some truth to Don Gale's comments, there is a lot that
isn't. I was at our neighborhood caucus, and it was one of the best run
meetings that could fit in a living room I have seen. There was no power
brokering.
I agree that there have been those that had started to listen to the powerful vs the people. We just fired the Cannon (Chris) at the end of the year. I agree that there needs to be others, but not all. My state rep backed Cannon, which I didn't agree, but respected, and didn't back Walker, which I agreed. I am not happy with either Ellis or Walker. Walker didn't know how to do the job and wanted to make sure Ellis stuck around. Ellis played with getting a big raise, decided against it, and then smeared the whole thing on Walker. Ellis has experience and would have been a better choice.
I agree that Walker was running to give the legislature more control of Treasurer. I almost voted for Walker in convention because of the petty attitude of Ellis. I have voted for Ellis twice, but he may not get a third.
I agree that there have been those that had started to listen to the powerful vs the people. We just fired the Cannon (Chris) at the end of the year. I agree that there needs to be others, but not all. My state rep backed Cannon, which I didn't agree, but respected, and didn't back Walker, which I agreed. I am not happy with either Ellis or Walker. Walker didn't know how to do the job and wanted to make sure Ellis stuck around. Ellis played with getting a big raise, decided against it, and then smeared the whole thing on Walker. Ellis has experience and would have been a better choice.
I agree that Walker was running to give the legislature more control of Treasurer. I almost voted for Walker in convention because of the petty attitude of Ellis. I have voted for Ellis twice, but he may not get a third.
Gordon | 8:38 p.m. July 6, 2008
Scholars know that voter turnout has very little to do with the outcome of an
election. People vote or don't vote for similar reasons.
So if voter turnout doesn't affect the outcome, why are people like Don Gale complaining about low voter turnout?
My guess is that, as an apologist for the incumbent political class, Mr. Gale rightly sees high voter turnout as a measure of public support for or acquiescence to the status quo.
And to the extent that the public casts a "null vote" by not registering to vote or staying away from the polls, this shows dissatisfaction with the status quo. And this lack of confidence in the incumbent political class threatens the influence of Mr. Gale and his co-conspirators to maintain their power and privilege.
But perhaps Mr. Gale could address this point directly.
Check out a group called the "League of Non-Voters" for more information.
So if voter turnout doesn't affect the outcome, why are people like Don Gale complaining about low voter turnout?
My guess is that, as an apologist for the incumbent political class, Mr. Gale rightly sees high voter turnout as a measure of public support for or acquiescence to the status quo.
And to the extent that the public casts a "null vote" by not registering to vote or staying away from the polls, this shows dissatisfaction with the status quo. And this lack of confidence in the incumbent political class threatens the influence of Mr. Gale and his co-conspirators to maintain their power and privilege.
But perhaps Mr. Gale could address this point directly.
Check out a group called the "League of Non-Voters" for more information.
Charles | 10:05 p.m. July 6, 2008
It's not shocking to read the comments of people who don't think they
need to vote. The complacency amongst Americans is at all-time highs. It's
just plain apathy.
Liberals run out their tired and worn-out cliche's about flag waving and using your own brain. Just plain silliness.
Then we get the liberal LDS crowd who think that voting for a democrat is the call to action because of the environment, education, health care and other socialist programs. To those LDS people, I say you've never read your scriptures and if you have, you surely don't understand them. I'd highly recommend to those same LDS faithful to read a document called The Proper Role of Government by ET Benson. It might help you understand why this country was established in the first place; so we could us our agency and keep our God-given rights!
I have no patience for the lazy who can't get out and vote. I don't consider you patriots or real citizens of this nation.
A vote is a call to action for those who represent us. I don't like all my representatives and am working to replace them.
Americans are lazy and we will die from within.
Liberals run out their tired and worn-out cliche's about flag waving and using your own brain. Just plain silliness.
Then we get the liberal LDS crowd who think that voting for a democrat is the call to action because of the environment, education, health care and other socialist programs. To those LDS people, I say you've never read your scriptures and if you have, you surely don't understand them. I'd highly recommend to those same LDS faithful to read a document called The Proper Role of Government by ET Benson. It might help you understand why this country was established in the first place; so we could us our agency and keep our God-given rights!
I have no patience for the lazy who can't get out and vote. I don't consider you patriots or real citizens of this nation.
A vote is a call to action for those who represent us. I don't like all my representatives and am working to replace them.
Americans are lazy and we will die from within.
jdegaston | 6:11 a.m. July 7, 2008
"Low voter turnout" Why is that so bad when only the Republicans
had primary contests? the Democrats could have had primary races and given
their candidates a little name-recognition and public exposure before the
General election in November. So could have the Constitutional &
Libertarian and all of the other parties. They all chose to have no primaries,
so their followers had nothing to vote for.
The idea that everyone else should be allowed to help the Republicans choose their candidates is JUST PLAIN SILLINESS. Choose your own candidates if you do not like the Republican party.
As for the Republican leadership moaning the loss of one of their own, it is they who avoid primary elections with their 60% requirement to avoid a primary (too low) and their gaggle of automatic, appointed and discretionary delegates, carefully chosen or rejected to achieve the outcome of no primaries.
But those politicians who have no primaries (such as Bramble) get hundreds of thousands of campaign contributions from loobyists, for what purpose? Obviously not for campaigns.
And, so why does the public not turn out? What did they have to vote on? Give them some contests and they will vote. Jackie de Gaston
The idea that everyone else should be allowed to help the Republicans choose their candidates is JUST PLAIN SILLINESS. Choose your own candidates if you do not like the Republican party.
As for the Republican leadership moaning the loss of one of their own, it is they who avoid primary elections with their 60% requirement to avoid a primary (too low) and their gaggle of automatic, appointed and discretionary delegates, carefully chosen or rejected to achieve the outcome of no primaries.
But those politicians who have no primaries (such as Bramble) get hundreds of thousands of campaign contributions from loobyists, for what purpose? Obviously not for campaigns.
And, so why does the public not turn out? What did they have to vote on? Give them some contests and they will vote. Jackie de Gaston
lorie | 9:39 a.m. July 7, 2008
It is interesting that members of the liberal media can find a way to blame the
Republican party for all the government's ills, including poor voter
turnout. People get the government they deserve. Our system provides for
elected office. Everyone serving in the legislature and governor's office
was elected. If those who are complaining do not choose to vote, they have no
one to blame but themselves.
Justin | 11:27 a.m. July 7, 2008
This commentary generated a brief little spark of optimism when I read it,
particularly since it was published in the Deseret News. Somebody dared to
point out the corruption and arrogance that have sprung up from decades of
single-party rule. But, after reading the comments of the readers, I'm
thinking that maybe everybody who is disgusted with what they see should finally
take the advice that the majority frequently offers. If you don't like it
here, leave. Leave Utah to the people who deserve the mess they have created
and enabled.
Adan | 11:32 a.m. July 7, 2008
@lorie,
Did you just refer to the Deseret News as "the liberal media?" Seriously?
Did you just refer to the Deseret News as "the liberal media?" Seriously?
Will Pearson | 6:13 p.m. July 7, 2008
Thank you, Don Gale, for revealing Utah republicans for the autocrats they are!
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