To those so easily offended and so quick to complain. Get a life. Your
complaint is that somebody in America (yes Utah is part of America) has done
something by invitation that has been happening since the beginning of America.
And somehow with your small minds and lack of tolerance we should agree with
your bitter behavior. No thanks. There are better things in life than
political correctness (which is rarely correct) as your guide.
I was at the dedication of the library. A leader of another(not LDS) faith
offered an opening prayer. We had religious and state leaders there of different
faiths. The bottom line for me is that so many people who have busy lives
themselves took time out of their day to come down to Orem, Utah to recognize
this moment in history. That day was amazing for me and many others in
attendance. So, the ultimate bottom line for me is not who offered the
dedicatory prayer or even that a prayer was offered, it is that we are now a
university and people of all faiths and denominations can come here and receive
a high quality education with a beautiful state of the art building that stands
as a symbol of what is to come for Utah Valley university. As a student
attending this institution I cannot see any harm in asking a higher being for a
little extra help in keeping me and those I attend school with safe. It didn't
bring harm to anyone in attendance that day to have him give the prayer; for me,
it enhanced the importance of the building and of the day.
This seems to be the "tolerance" question again.If you agree with my
views, then you are tolerant.If you don't, then you are not tolerant and I
don't have to be!!!
Thanks for the insights. It invariably takes an outsider to help Utahns (of
all persuasions) to see how small-minded and cliquesh and provincial we really
are.As George's son noted earlier-only in Utah could something as
petty as a public prayer become part of a debate fueled by the hatred of a
relative minority (albeit loud) of those opposed to the dominant religion.Really hard to understand the mentality of those tortured souls who seem
to dispise anything and everything to do with Mormons. It would be a most
interesting psychological study.I can see it now on the next edition
of "60 Minutes" entitled "EXPOSED-inside the brain of a Utahn!"
Sorry about the typing errors! I hope you can look past that to the message.
To finish...since there were too many words to fit in that last comment
box...I suppose someone could find something wrong with my comments, in
their minds, but that's ok, I understand things can be misunderstood. President Monson is a wonderful person. He just wants to bless and help others
lives as he is able to. I think that is the best intention you can have in what
you do, even if others have trouble with it. I will say that God will
support the righteous causes that happen in the world, no matter who it comes
from, so the LDS memnbers and anyone else who is doung something good, he will
support. Personally , I would prefer to always be in his side. I hope everyone
can appreciate another person trying to do good, regardless of who it is from or
Hello everyone! I happen to have lived in Utah, Southern New York, and Arizona,
and guess what! All of those places have public religious expression. the reason
the LDS prayers are ended in the name of Christ is becuase that is who they
worship, and that is who answers the prayer. I don't think it would be
appropriate to close it some other way, huh?! I think we ought to call attention
to the fact that yes, he was invited. With how busy he is, I doubt he offered.
It's ok for people to have different religious beliefs. Just try to find the
common ground and work with that. In general, we all believe in allowing people
to choose what they want to believe, and we all believe in being good and decent
to other people. That's a good place to start...build some understanding, and
you can still hold on to your beliefs without being unfriendly.
I am just amazed that people actually take the time to complain about something
thathas not ever hurt anyone, is not a big deal, and has been done in the world
since Adam and Eve. Actually probably before that. Praying, Wow,! I cannot
believe that there were any comments let alone twenty something. Wow a Mormon
praying in public, especially in Utah!, that is shocking don't you think. A big
deal should be made after something like that, don't you think, a prayer to God.
Uhm I am just amazed
These comments are always good for a laugh. There are the nice uplifting,
positive comments and then there are the negative, depressing comments. Why do
the losers that try to tear down those that believe in the LDS faith always come
to these comment boards? It's like they are searching for a way to bash the
LDS. Just go play by yourselves! We have heard all your ridiculous reasons why
you hate what the LDS are about. Your reasons are so lame!
As an outsider, let me just say that this is one weird state. There is not
another venue, city, or state where such a public forum would take place.Literally ONLY in Utah.And Tory, the only real grumps I have
met here are non-LDS and former LDS who seem to resent anything (be it news or
sports or education or George Osmond's obituary, etc.) Mormon and make every
issue into a religious debate.Grow up people. You are amazingly
funny. Only in Utah indeed would someone grumble about a public prayer. You
really might like it better in Tehran where you would have something real to
Do you LDS even try to get along with your own members? What a bunch of grumpy
grumbling Mormons. Hey! perhaps you folks need to start by praying for change in
your own personal life style, so that you aren't so bitter and grumpy all the
time. Perhaps try praying that you can accept others for being different and not
believing in all your baloney. And so what if the Mormon prophet gave a prayer?
Isn't that what most prophets do best, is to pray?
I suggest if there if a prayer in the public to be given, why not take your ear
plugs with you and use them? This way you won't have to be offended by what you
hear. I'm surprised that anyone in or out of the church would really even give a
darn if a prayer was given or not... Who cares? Why don't some of you people
Such narrowed minds on both sides. Go to NY to a public meeting it's always got
a Jewish or Catholic priest blessing involved. Go to Congress, it has prayers
every morning, the assigned religious leader prays in the style and form fitting
they're beliefs. Go to most colleges many have locker room prayers, and
virtually all have dedicatory prayers on new buildings. Utah is not special in
this regard, nor is the fact that the areas majority religion presides. This is
the tradition of surprise everywhere else on the planet. Do you
think for a second that anything happens in Pakistan without the clerics
involvement, do you think they publicly recognize the Christian God?Try
getting anything done in Ohio or Iowa without a Protestant. Try doing anything
in Georgia without Evangelicals or Southern Baptists the list goes on and on. We
live in a world where religion dominates and the dominant religion controls
much. Utah seems obsessed with political correctness, and unrelenting
self-loathing. If more of you would get out and experience the world you might
be surprised to learn it's very much like where you are only the names and power
No one has said that non-LDS should have no say. It is time for people to
start respecting our right to close prayers in the name of Jesus Christ. He is
our Lord and are Savior and no one comes to the father except by him. I
guess I should be encoraged because people are attacking us for being followers
of Jesus Christ.
To Darin, I have no clue why Jehovah's Witnesses would have problems
with your morning prayers. Now if you had done the plege of alligance, showing
fealty to an idol, now that would have bothered them. Personally I do not
agree with the Jehovah's Witnesses on the issue of the plege of allegiance, but
I doubt they were very much your friends if you so misunderstood their position.
My point is you assume that religion offends, when in fact to Jehovah's
Witnesses it is secularism that offends most often. If you do not want
people calling down the blessings of the Lord on UVU it is your right, go and
pray to God to withhold his blessings. However, their was no sectarianism in
President Monson's prayer. Ideas should be exchanged in the open.
Thank you for bringing that out. I was about to say the same thing. People act
like the Church bullied their way in to say the prayer. He was invited to be
there by the school. The school recognizes his importance to the community and
to the world.When I was going to grad school at University of
Massachusetts, graduation was accompanied with a prayer given by a local
Catholic priest. And even though I am not Catholic, it didn't offend me in the
least.People have taken this concept of seperation of church and
state to a new low. It seems like some won't be satisfied utnil the make
religious people second class citizens -- unworthy to participate in anything
related to the state.
If you object to the prayer, I suggest you write to those who chose the program.
Pres. Monson was invited to say the prayer. It would have been rude and an
affront to decline. If you have a legitimate complaint, take it to the source
instead of just blowing off steam. Unless you don't really want change.
"If prayer offends others, it is their problem....ifthey don't like it
[here], there are fortunately 49 other possibilities for them."I imagine God, who appears to be at the head of this country, would have
retorted in like manner...
So is the offense to a prayer being offered, or is it because Monson offered it?
Like others have said, why would anyone take offense? It wouldn't bother me at
all if anyone of any religious affiliation offered the dedicatory prayer. for
those of you who are so against prayer in public settings, doesn't the U S
Senate open with prayer every morning? You know, prayer realy does take place in
...is LDS so no one else should get a say?And people wonder why Utah
gets laughed at so often.Sadly too many people in this state seem to
think that only the opinion and beliefs of the majority are worth protecting.You ask how prayer is a bad thing....well, how is not praying a bad
Your comments are unfortunately typical for an LDS person from Utah.You seem to think that LDS folks were here from teh beginning of time, and
that anyone who isn't LDS came long after.Reality check time...there
are many people who were BORN here who aren't LDS. Of course, there were people
here long before Brigham and his band showed up, and they weren't LDS.Part of the problem with allowing LDS leaders to offer prayers is their lack
of understanding of other's. Listen to someone who is LDS give a prayer, it
always ends "In the name of Jesus Christ". Guess what, far more people in the
world DON'T revere Jesus than do. Sadly those who are LDS (and there
are exceptions to this) have proven time and time again that they put
themselves, and their religious beliefs above those of anyone else. In a public
setting, that's not acceptable.Those who constantly say that this
country was founded with God at it's head seem to forget that those who founded
the country were in part fleeing religious domination. Having a single religion
represented at something like this is not what this country was built on.
Like someone else said on one of the other D.News blogs, It's usually LDS
bashing LDS. And then you people have the nerve to call each other "Anti's
because you cannot agree with everything the church teaches or it's confusing
doctrine. You people are funny!As for me, I think public prayer is just
fine. I do not have a problem with prayer of any kind, because most of my
prayers have always been answered in one way or another.
i realize that UVU is in the midst of Moromondom, but why does the Mormon Church
have to bless it? It is a state university after all. Can't the LDS hierearchy
take a back seat just once? It's not like the Mormon ratio in Utah County is
going to fall below 85% tomorrow. Give it a rest. You'll gain more credibility
by doing so.
If prayer offends others, it is their problem. This country was founded with
God at its head, it is our history, it hopefully better be our future.
President Monson is the most prominent religious man in this state, we see
prominent religious leaders in all sorts of gatherings all over this country,
not just in Utah. Darin, drop the politically correct crap, non-Mormons in Utah
know what they are getting themselves into when they move here, if they don't
like it there are fortunately 49 other possibilities for them.What
happened at UVU today was very appropriate, very expected and very American.
I'm with Darin on this one and I consider myself a good LDS person.
Sorry, Darin, I don't understand your taking offense.I was at a
ceremony once in Roosevelt to honor a woman who had done a service to the Ute
tribe. The opening prayer was given by a Shoshone woman--in English, but it was
a Shoshone prayer. Neither I, nor, I think, was anyone else there offended,
though a majority were probably LDS.When I was young (a jillion
years ago) if you were from Utah County and were going to college you probably
went to BYU. Some non-LDS didn't, but then a few LDS didn't either. Now, with
BYU's access more and more restricted, I think it's a great thing to make UVSC
into UVU--we need it here. And since the vast majority of the population is LDS,
I don't see any offense in Pres Monson offering a prayer. Then again, I wouldn't
be offended if President Sederberg's pastor offered the prayer instead. How is prayer a bad thing?
I hate to rain on the parade, but....as one who has made a life-long career in
higher education, as a Utah taxpayer, and as a native son of Utah county, I have
to say that I find it offensive to have any religious leader "bless" UVU as part
of the official state ceremony. With all due respect to President Monson as the
leader of my church, he is not a state official and has no business praying for
the institution in a public ceremony. UVU exists to serve all residents of the
state of Utah, including those who do not share the beliefs of our predominant
religion. Public prayer in a state ceremony is in bad taste and disrespectful.
It's all too reminiscent of the unease I felt in first grade when my poor
Jehovah Witness friends had to endure our Mormon morning prayers. Keep it in
private where it doesn't offend.
....now that we've had the LDS Church bless a state institution, are they going
to be checking religious histories for future students?
It was a great morning for UVU and all that attended. Elizabeth captured the
emotions of the morning and shows why she is a qualified writer for the Deseret
happy with this historical moment in seeing UVSC becoming UVU. I was in their
Aviation Program a few years back. Do they still have the program or is it
going yonder hills with this change?