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Same-sex couple from Salt Lake plan to marry in California
244 comments | Read story
so what! | 12:28 a.m. June 28, 2008
Big whoopty-stinkin' do.
T_H_R_O | 12:52 a.m. June 28, 2008
Good for them. I see nothing offensive about a happy, committed and loving pair
of GROWN-UPS deciding to spend the rest of their life together, nor about them
having the same rights and responsibilities we straight couples do.
Why do people spend so much time and money fighting this? And why can the Church not see this as a CIVIL issue? Churches do not have to recognize or ordain any marriage they don't agree with. They do need to mind they own bidness when said marriages are performed in the civic, SECULAR square.
Back off and let them pursue happiness as they see it.
Why do people spend so much time and money fighting this? And why can the Church not see this as a CIVIL issue? Churches do not have to recognize or ordain any marriage they don't agree with. They do need to mind they own bidness when said marriages are performed in the civic, SECULAR square.
Back off and let them pursue happiness as they see it.
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 12:56 a.m. June 28, 2008
Congratulations.
America is about freedom and equality for all. Brethren who are bothered by gay marriage should not attend. Otherwise, it's really not our business how people arrange their private lives.
America is about freedom and equality for all. Brethren who are bothered by gay marriage should not attend. Otherwise, it's really not our business how people arrange their private lives.
Anon 2008 | 1:55 a.m. June 28, 2008
Question? What is the LDS Churches Stand on doing the Temple Work Of Dead
Homosexuals? If they where Married could they be Sealed To Their Spouse and
Kids? This is about Homosexuals both Male and Female. If you die, are you still
a Homosexual? If you had a Homosexual Relationship, but your parents where in
Denial and said that you where not really Homosexual (even after the Outward
Bound),but where under the Evil Influence of the other person. How would that
count? If I am a Missionary and I knock on the Door and Ted and Louie or Jill
and Jane answer and politely invite me in, and there on the Mantel Piece is
their Wedding Picture, and they say its okay to Teach Lesson #1, what does the
Missionary do? Now I'll stop. But you get the idea of the size of the
Pandora�s Box.
mormons_son Australia | 5:00 a.m. June 28, 2008
(New Testament | Matthew 7:13-27).
When God created life, he created life to reproduce itself, male and female after its OWN KIND...Heaven is a pattern here on this earth.....think about it!
There is NO homosexuality in heaven, none,God, has said so.. for NO unclean thing may enter into it...
(Old Testament | Isaiah 5:20)
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
I could say more,but this is suffice, dont you think so?
When God created life, he created life to reproduce itself, male and female after its OWN KIND...Heaven is a pattern here on this earth.....think about it!
There is NO homosexuality in heaven, none,God, has said so.. for NO unclean thing may enter into it...
(Old Testament | Isaiah 5:20)
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
I could say more,but this is suffice, dont you think so?
Hey Anon | 5:18 a.m. June 28, 2008
I agree, so why do we have to constantly read about their private lived in the
paper or see them in their private lives in parades that do nothing but point
out their differences.
This is wrong | 5:50 a.m. June 28, 2008
This is wrong because the people of California voted it down. The people
didn't want it and the government overthrew their vote. On any other issue
all you liberals would be screaming your heads off about how the government is
corrupt and trying to take away our freedom. I guess that's only the case
if it's against your personal beliefs and not against the beliefs of the
majority.
DFH | 5:55 a.m. June 28, 2008
gay...
Still a non believer | 6:45 a.m. June 28, 2008
When same sex couples start procreating children between themselves by
themselves. Then I will trust it is right.
Bob | 6:48 a.m. June 28, 2008
What about this drivel makes it a "news" story?
Grasnny5 | 6:47 a.m. June 28, 2008
Good for you! And best wishes. This is long overdue, but it is a shame you have
to travel outside your state (where you work, pay taxes, contribute to the
community, but can't marry) to be married. I don't, in the near or
long future, see this being a law in Utah. I respect you (you don't know
me, nor I you) and will respect your marriage. Again, accept my best wishes.
Thought | 6:50 a.m. June 28, 2008
I disagree with them and suggest States give islands as wedding gifts.
The first for all men, the second for all women and the third for men and women. Those who are around after 100 years will determine the nurture vs. nature argument.
You see "marriage is ordained of God" and thus I am one who will obey to "love the sinner, but not the sin."
The first for all men, the second for all women and the third for men and women. Those who are around after 100 years will determine the nurture vs. nature argument.
You see "marriage is ordained of God" and thus I am one who will obey to "love the sinner, but not the sin."
jds | 6:57 a.m. June 28, 2008
This is not news..who cares. Come on DN find something better to write about!
NOPE | 6:59 a.m. June 28, 2008
Not a civil issue, but a morality issue. That is why "THE" Church
keeps fighting it. It is not healthy, wholesome or natural.
I stand with the Gospel and the Prophets on this issue. All LDS should say to themselves and lead their families thus, "as for me and my house, we will choose the Lord".
I stand with the Gospel and the Prophets on this issue. All LDS should say to themselves and lead their families thus, "as for me and my house, we will choose the Lord".
Wainwright | 7:03 a.m. June 28, 2008
Seems fine, they harm no one and it makes them happy.
Brother Chuck Schroeder | 7:13 a.m. June 28, 2008
Are they scared to ask President Henry B. Eyring, to do their wedding?. Or would
he say; "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim
that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family
is central to the Creator�s plan for the eternal destiny of
His children.All human beings male and female are created in the image of God.
Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each
has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of
individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose. The first
commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for
parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God�s
commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in
force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of
procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as
husband and wife."
JOKE | 7:14 a.m. June 28, 2008
What a joke. This country is in the state that it is because we have abandoned
all of our founding values and laws. We are a very corrupt people and it is very
sad!
Anonymous | 7:22 a.m. June 28, 2008
Maybe we, in California, should start taking direct action against the LDS
Church by following missionaries and and making in clear the represent of church
that promotes hatred and division. We could circle them and male in hard to
convert people.
Anonymous | 7:35 a.m. June 28, 2008
Good luck you guys.
Muddied Waters | 7:39 a.m. June 28, 2008
Church and State? Which came first? The chicken or the egg?
The problem is that we've made government stick their noses into marriages. Marriage is an institute of heaven not government.
Unfortunately we've muddied the waters by giving tax incentives, special privilages, etc to those with a piece of paper that says they are "married".
Give same sex couples the legal rights of those who are married. If they love and support one another and want to share their lives together then give them a piece of paper giving them rights that we enjoy.
Marriage is between a man and a woman and is ordained of God. Let's not mock God by perverting our beliefs in him through justification of our human desires.
I can believe that I'm a turtle but when I talk to God eventually, he will tell me that I had the right to believe as I wished but that I was wrong. I was never a turtle.
Let's give gay couples the rights married couples do, excepting adpotion, so that they will give up the marriage battle and stop distorting and mocking this holy institution.
The problem is that we've made government stick their noses into marriages. Marriage is an institute of heaven not government.
Unfortunately we've muddied the waters by giving tax incentives, special privilages, etc to those with a piece of paper that says they are "married".
Give same sex couples the legal rights of those who are married. If they love and support one another and want to share their lives together then give them a piece of paper giving them rights that we enjoy.
Marriage is between a man and a woman and is ordained of God. Let's not mock God by perverting our beliefs in him through justification of our human desires.
I can believe that I'm a turtle but when I talk to God eventually, he will tell me that I had the right to believe as I wished but that I was wrong. I was never a turtle.
Let's give gay couples the rights married couples do, excepting adpotion, so that they will give up the marriage battle and stop distorting and mocking this holy institution.
samhill | 7:48 a.m. June 28, 2008
"The state of Utah has been very clear on whether or not to recognize
same-sex marriage. The answer is no," said Bill Duncan, director of the
Marriage Law Foundation…”
Actually, that was also true of California. By a 3:1 majority, the residents there made a “very clear” statement about their desire to leave the institute of marriage as one exclusively between male and female. Yet, as we’ve now seen, their “very clear” statement was not sufficient to have their wishes respected. Majorities DON’T rule, in places where judges deem otherwise.
Of course, everyone, especially judges, is supposed to be subject to constitutions. Hence the need to go the judicial root of things when it comes to establishing rules governing things as fundamental as the nature of marriage.
So, if nothing else, this recent ruling and the fervor it has produced has demonstrated why constitutions have provisions for admendments.
Actually, that was also true of California. By a 3:1 majority, the residents there made a “very clear” statement about their desire to leave the institute of marriage as one exclusively between male and female. Yet, as we’ve now seen, their “very clear” statement was not sufficient to have their wishes respected. Majorities DON’T rule, in places where judges deem otherwise.
Of course, everyone, especially judges, is supposed to be subject to constitutions. Hence the need to go the judicial root of things when it comes to establishing rules governing things as fundamental as the nature of marriage.
So, if nothing else, this recent ruling and the fervor it has produced has demonstrated why constitutions have provisions for admendments.
Cheers to You | 7:51 a.m. June 28, 2008
I am a 100% straight girl who loves dating boys :) Are they happy? It sure seems
like it, and that's more than alot of hus/wife couples can vouch for! Since
when was finding happiness a bad thing? Congrats Ron and Todd!!
Wishing you only the best... | 7:55 a.m. June 28, 2008
Best Wishes to both of you. Hope you continue to have a long and happy life
together. I'm not sure how much a "piece of paper" changes
anything, but if it's important to you, I'm glad you can have it.
CONGRATULATIONS!
CONGRATULATIONS!
Homer | 7:55 a.m. June 28, 2008
And this is news, and a lead story for the Deseret News, because????
Anonymous | 8:02 a.m. June 28, 2008
Sorry, T_H_R_0! The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has absolutely
NO INTENTIONS OF "Minding Our Own Business" on this Issue; This is a
Moral and a Legal problem. there are several instances in the Bible where the
LORD STRONGLY disapproves of this activity; example, in the Old Testament, the
LORD commands that a man shall not lie with another man; If you will read the
PROCLAMATION ON THE FAMILY, that the Church issued in 1995, you will note that
same-sex marriage is not mentioned, but the Traditional form of Marriage is
honored, and we are NOT going to change that. One more thing, if Barak Obama
favors Gay Marriage, than he better pack his bags and buy a one-way plane ticket
out of the United States.
Married | 8:06 a.m. June 28, 2008
They want an acknowledgement of their commitment to each other - fine. But it
isn't a "marriage". Marriage was ordained of God back to the
beginning of man/woman-kind.
djt | 8:10 a.m. June 28, 2008
When I hear all these calls for "Tolerance" I think of the attacks
against the boy scouts of america because they do not choose to associate with
those who choose a homosexual lifestyle. Should live and let live mean that
scouts cannot associate, yet those who choose homosexuality can? Should I be
ostracised as a bigot if I do not respect these associations as equivalent to
traditional marriage?
The "wall of separation" is not in the constitution. The wall of separation spoken of in a supreme court justice's opinion did not erase the constitutionally recognized right to freedom of speech. Having a certain moral viewpoint does not mean I have no political voice. Disagreeing with gay marriage is not a hate crime. At least, not yet.
All law has a foundation in morality.
The "wall of separation" is not in the constitution. The wall of separation spoken of in a supreme court justice's opinion did not erase the constitutionally recognized right to freedom of speech. Having a certain moral viewpoint does not mean I have no political voice. Disagreeing with gay marriage is not a hate crime. At least, not yet.
All law has a foundation in morality.
Utah Pioneer | 8:30 a.m. June 28, 2008
Congratulations--Many best wishes.
open minded | 8:32 a.m. June 28, 2008
I feel like I'm an open minded person. But, when it comes to same sex
marriage there is just something that seems to be, shall we say, not right.
I don't mind same gender attraction people having a committed relationship but when they ask govt. and society at large to accept this by way of marriage, it just is a little much to take.
back to the closet with you!
I don't mind same gender attraction people having a committed relationship but when they ask govt. and society at large to accept this by way of marriage, it just is a little much to take.
back to the closet with you!
Bert | 8:44 a.m. June 28, 2008
Congratulations you two. I hope you have many more years together with lots of
people who love you around for support.
The Church | 8:46 a.m. June 28, 2008
The Church doesn't care because it affects them, they care because it
affects us. It affects us because as we become "ok" with things like
this in our society, we become calloused to what is good and wholesome.
Homosexuality is an evil practice and those who practice it and/or accept it are
contributing to the degredation of our society. Is there any wonder why the
world is in such shambles these days?!
Anon | 8:48 a.m. June 28, 2008
Fine - let them go to CA and then be happy - but do not sue the state of Utah
and cost tax payers money and clog the courts
Its all about them | 8:58 a.m. June 28, 2008
I just love all the comments about how its 'none of our business' and
how church and state should be separated and that its a civil affair - right up
until the lawsuit is filed because I said I believe homosexuality is a sin, or
because my organization chooses not to have homosexuals within its membership,
or when I am forced to attend reprogramming classes at work because I find
openly homosexual behavior offensive.
CA has given the gay agenda a key victory is its quest to tear down society's institutions. This is not about equality or empowerment, it is about conquest. It is not about tolerance, it is about forcing acceptance and stifling dissent. The quote about not forcing one's beliefs is supremely ironic.
Those who believe this is a step forward are blind to its consequences. We have only to look to Europe, which has led the way down so many times, to see where we are headed: increased divorce, increased illegitimacy, increased single-parent "families", more fluid living arrangements. The costs are high and the scenery is littered with human debris. But, hey, we're =.
CA has given the gay agenda a key victory is its quest to tear down society's institutions. This is not about equality or empowerment, it is about conquest. It is not about tolerance, it is about forcing acceptance and stifling dissent. The quote about not forcing one's beliefs is supremely ironic.
Those who believe this is a step forward are blind to its consequences. We have only to look to Europe, which has led the way down so many times, to see where we are headed: increased divorce, increased illegitimacy, increased single-parent "families", more fluid living arrangements. The costs are high and the scenery is littered with human debris. But, hey, we're =.
uncannygunman | 8:57 a.m. June 28, 2008
I think it is insulting to Utah's courts to suggest that they would not
ever come out in favor of equal rights. If the arguments are there, and I think
they are, make them!
It is our business | 9:14 a.m. June 28, 2008
It is our business when people do things in their private lives that have
consequences on the rest of us. Such as adoption, survival rights, wills etc.
This is not about sex ---it is about the classification of what is a family.
California Resident | 9:27 a.m. June 28, 2008
America is a nation of laws and when a couple of liberal judges on a California
court can overturn the will of the people who overwhelmingly voted to ban
homosexual marriage, the people of California will stand up for decency and
strike down this perversion of the sanctity of marriage.
A constitutional amendment is coming.
A constitutional amendment is coming.
Opinion | 9:30 a.m. June 28, 2008
I agree - it is none of our business and it has no business being NEWS. My
issue with the religion of homosexuality is that they cannot keep it to
themselves but feel compelled to make it a social instead of a personal issue.
My lack of tolerance for the homosexual movement is in direct relation to their
lack of respect for social norms and those that practice a heterosexual
lifestyle.
Remember - it is a CHOICE, just like smoking, drinking, etc.... a wrong choice but still a choice nonetheless. IT should remain a personal choice. but when you choose to push it in my face it now becomes my issue and as such I have every right to express my opinion - even if you don't like it.
So, keep you choices to yourself and I will keep my opinions to myself and we can all live in harmony.
Remember - it is a CHOICE, just like smoking, drinking, etc.... a wrong choice but still a choice nonetheless. IT should remain a personal choice. but when you choose to push it in my face it now becomes my issue and as such I have every right to express my opinion - even if you don't like it.
So, keep you choices to yourself and I will keep my opinions to myself and we can all live in harmony.
Gus | 9:30 a.m. June 28, 2008
I don't understand why any gay person would want to get married, unless it
were to take advantage of a partner's health benefits offered through an
employer. Why would you want the responsibility, liability, stress, etc of
married life when you can have all the good without the bad? The chances of
these marriages lasting forever are slim and one of the partners is going to get
burned (just like husbands do when they divorce) financially.
I just don't see why such progressive thinkers would ever want to subject themselves to an antiquated institution that doesn't benefit them very much.
I just don't see why such progressive thinkers would ever want to subject themselves to an antiquated institution that doesn't benefit them very much.
Just one Mormon but.. | 9:43 a.m. June 28, 2008
My sincerest Congratulations and Best Wishes to both of you. In the words of
Professor Jeffrey Nielsen:
"You should also know, not all faithful Mormons agree with our religious leaders' encroachment into political matters. In fact, a growing number of active Mormons, who have gay friends and family members, are coming to the conclusion that our current leaders are as mistaken in promoting discrimination against gays and lesbians as was the Mormon hierarchy in the 60's when they opposed equal rights for people of color, and our Mormon leaders in the 70's when they opposed legal equality for women."
Many, many Mormons really DO wish you only the best!
"You should also know, not all faithful Mormons agree with our religious leaders' encroachment into political matters. In fact, a growing number of active Mormons, who have gay friends and family members, are coming to the conclusion that our current leaders are as mistaken in promoting discrimination against gays and lesbians as was the Mormon hierarchy in the 60's when they opposed equal rights for people of color, and our Mormon leaders in the 70's when they opposed legal equality for women."
Many, many Mormons really DO wish you only the best!
Spike | 9:42 a.m. June 28, 2008
Here is a possible solution to the gay marriage problem.
Make marriage purely a religous ordinance, such as a baptism. Religions that believe gay marriage is wrong will not allow those marriages to take place within their organizations.
This will have no negative impact on the LDS faith since many gay couples already make commitment vows and many non-LDS ministers perform these vows. These vows have not had a negative impact on the LDS church.
Take marriage out of the governments hands and replace it with a legal contract between two people which would give everyone the same rights and protection under the law. Gay couples are looking for equal rights.
According to the LDS perspective, by taking this measure we are still respecting the will of God by having marriage performed by ordained priesthood holders while allowing others who do not have the same believes as we do the same rights and protection under the law.
Let us make marriage a religous ordinance and take it out of the hands of the government.
Morally gay marriage is wrong though gay rights is not.
It is time to stop hating and to start seeking solutions to this ever growing problem.
Make marriage purely a religous ordinance, such as a baptism. Religions that believe gay marriage is wrong will not allow those marriages to take place within their organizations.
This will have no negative impact on the LDS faith since many gay couples already make commitment vows and many non-LDS ministers perform these vows. These vows have not had a negative impact on the LDS church.
Take marriage out of the governments hands and replace it with a legal contract between two people which would give everyone the same rights and protection under the law. Gay couples are looking for equal rights.
According to the LDS perspective, by taking this measure we are still respecting the will of God by having marriage performed by ordained priesthood holders while allowing others who do not have the same believes as we do the same rights and protection under the law.
Let us make marriage a religous ordinance and take it out of the hands of the government.
Morally gay marriage is wrong though gay rights is not.
It is time to stop hating and to start seeking solutions to this ever growing problem.
Cool. | 9:43 a.m. June 28, 2008
I bet they can find a good price on a house there too.
Red Smith | 9:49 a.m. June 28, 2008
So, two men want to get married. How is this news? When they want to get
divorced will this be a news story? Give us some real news like why gas is $2
in Mexico and $4 in the US, or how American use 25 barrels of oil per person,
and China uses 2 barrels of oil per person.
Where the news, Desert New?
Where the news, Desert New?
Anonymous | 9:54 a.m. June 28, 2008
Why won't the censors allow me to wish this couple best wishes and
congratulations? Wouldn't it be nice if EVERYONE could share their thoughts
on this forum?
Keep searching | 10:00 a.m. June 28, 2008
Just wish all Mormons could read Professor Jeffrey Nielsen's latest letter
on this subject. It is very beautifully written and makes a lot of sense. Use
your internet search if you'd like to find it. I guess the Deseret News is
either biased or just slow.
Al | 10:08 a.m. June 28, 2008
It wouldn't bother me so much that the church would oppose same-sex
marriage, if they were also opposing prostitution and etc.. They don't seem
to have a problem with a well known named family in the church making big bucks
from having porn available in their hotel rooms. Oh yeah and right next to the
book of mormon.
To someone above that | 10:06 a.m. June 28, 2008
says "there's no homosexuality in heaven"! Good for you! You
know what "heaven" is like from a book many centurys old. I'm
glad you enlightened us. Now, let me enlighten you! I "know" that
there is no marriage in heaven (perhaps not even male and female in heaven).
"God" did not create this bigotry...people did (originally people in
your book).
Congratulations Ron and Todd! "God" Bless You!
Congratulations Ron and Todd! "God" Bless You!
To Married | 10:09 a.m. June 28, 2008
Just because you and the "God" you speak for don't recognize
their marriage, doesn't mean it's not a marriage. The LDS church
takes a stand and has its beliefs, some which are shared with other religious
denominations. It does not, however, mean that these are universally shared
beliefs. Please keep that in mind.
Mahonri | 10:08 a.m. June 28, 2008
Let them marry. Then the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution will
force Utah to recognize this LEGAL union. That is only fair.
Utah supplies other States with concealed carry weapon users and California supplies us with married same sex couples.
What is wrong with two people who love each other getting married? It does not threaten my marriage, Tommy Monsons marriage or anyone else. It certainly can't increase the divorce rate and won't increase child sex abuse, where Utah is once again #1.
Utah supplies other States with concealed carry weapon users and California supplies us with married same sex couples.
What is wrong with two people who love each other getting married? It does not threaten my marriage, Tommy Monsons marriage or anyone else. It certainly can't increase the divorce rate and won't increase child sex abuse, where Utah is once again #1.
David Decker | 10:13 a.m. June 28, 2008
This is almost the last straw. If Desnews felt it had to carry this story it
should have been 50 words max hidden on page a10. My patience is running out.
I am very close to cancelling my subscription.
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Ron Hunt, left, and Todd Bennett, pose for wedding announcement photographs at Exchange Place in Salt Lake City on Thursday.
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Great announcement picture, by the way. You look really happy.