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LDS Church addresses FLDS confusion
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Valery | 9:29 a.m. June 27, 2008
The LDS and FLDS church both believe in polygamy, and they are not Christians.
SLC Resident | 9:29 a.m. June 27, 2008
I guess McCain must be getting ready to ask Mitt to be his VP.
Section 132 | 9:35 a.m. June 27, 2008
The FLDS men simply live openly and outwardly, what the LDS men want to live
secretly.
Comments continue below
zxcvbnm | 9:42 a.m. June 27, 2008
Tell ya what........seeing as how everyone has such an affinity for denying the origins and history of their "root" religion why not come back to the Catholic Church.
The whole mess started when Luther broke away from the "original" christian hypocrits and started their own group of hypocrits.
Then everyone can follow an ex-hitler youth and we can all focus on bombing the heck out of the Moslems in this current crusade.
Nothing like unity in faith to cement unity in purpose.
Bryan | 9:41 a.m. June 27, 2008
To Granpa Phil Thank you, thank you, thank you. I couldnt have said it better.
Outside looking in | 9:41 a.m. June 27, 2008
Sorry but you folks are wierd. This is the 21st century and you are still
living in a world of mythology and superstition. God does not exist and Jesus
is dead. Joseph Smith is dead too. They are not coming back, and they are not
going to "save" you. It is totally illogical and goes against both
the laws of physics and reason.
Ernest T. Bass | 9:42 a.m. June 27, 2008
Provo is correct, the FLDS is practicing the original religion run by JS and
BY.
It's the LDS church thats slowly changed over the decades.
Until Pres. Hinckley came alone, the LDS leaders embraced the "peculiar people" label. They were proud of it.
GBH's PR background realized that to attact more converts the church needed to appear more mainstream and he was working on doing that.
It's why he said polygamy wasn't doctrine on Larry King.
It's the LDS church thats slowly changed over the decades.
Until Pres. Hinckley came alone, the LDS leaders embraced the "peculiar people" label. They were proud of it.
GBH's PR background realized that to attact more converts the church needed to appear more mainstream and he was working on doing that.
It's why he said polygamy wasn't doctrine on Larry King.
Brother Chuck Schroeder | 9:43 a.m. June 27, 2008
I don't think the LDS Church can say that they no longer practice polygamy
as long as D&C 132 is still taught as doctrine. As you are aware, the FLDS
uses Section 132 as the sole reason they practice polygamy.
The LDS Church needs to clarify or distance itself from Section 132 if it doesn't want to be seen by the rest of the world as practicing polygamy.
The LDS Church needs to clarify or distance itself from Section 132 if it doesn't want to be seen by the rest of the world as practicing polygamy.
just be nice | 9:46 a.m. June 27, 2008
just to be accurate, I believe polygamy was practiced by patriarchs throughout
the old testament. I can list them for you. So if you are talking about who
started it, it was actually practiced long before Joseph Smith. It's
interesting the amount of hatred that these articles bring. I wish people were
more interesed in learning and being acurate, even if they don't agree,
rather than jumping on these comment rooms to join the mob. Regardless, the
church against all odds and opinion will progress and grow. Geez that must be
frustrating.....
Confused... | 9:48 a.m. June 27, 2008
To Grandpa Phil, I sure hope if you are FLDS that you aren't trying to
claim to be LDS? Hummm? You confuse me. Are you on the side of the LDS church or
the side of the devil?
And to Cosmo, yes, Warren Jeffs does have rocket fueled trousers. Very sad and scary.
And to Cosmo, yes, Warren Jeffs does have rocket fueled trousers. Very sad and scary.
Jay | 9:52 a.m. June 27, 2008
Does the church really have 13 million members? Many reports on the internet
question this and show the growth to be slowing down.
Lee | 9:55 a.m. June 27, 2008
To those of you that point the 'finger of shame" at the Mormons about
polygamy,check the facts. LDS are not the only ones with renegade believers that
still practice polygamy. Just do a Google search for Christiam polygamists and
you will be shocked!There are numerous Evangelicals that openly practice
polygamy.They justify using many Old Testament scriptures.And yes, they call
themselves CHRISTIANS!
Marie Devine | 9:57 a.m. June 27, 2008
The Bible says "Resist not evil." and "All things work together
for the good..." Don't worry about your image, with this major
opportunity, God verified His statement of what would happen if the LDS did not
give up plural marriages. Lift that revelation up to the leaders of FLDLS and
to show that God said to stop plural marriages. In trying to bring unity you
may unify more than this one group.
In the Book or Mormon and the Doctrines and Covenants God said that man should only have one wife and no concubines. I believe you will find that the right to take other wives as David and Solomon was to preserve His leadership and promise to the descendants. I don't believe it could be to all LDS men because of the one wife guidance.
No Christian denomination is following Jesus Christ and that needs to change to bring in the kingdom. Jesus said, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY word out of the mouth of God." (including 7th day Sabbath). God has prepared a way to eliminate divisions, but we must honor every word from Genesis on to all God's prophets.
In the Book or Mormon and the Doctrines and Covenants God said that man should only have one wife and no concubines. I believe you will find that the right to take other wives as David and Solomon was to preserve His leadership and promise to the descendants. I don't believe it could be to all LDS men because of the one wife guidance.
No Christian denomination is following Jesus Christ and that needs to change to bring in the kingdom. Jesus said, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY word out of the mouth of God." (including 7th day Sabbath). God has prepared a way to eliminate divisions, but we must honor every word from Genesis on to all God's prophets.
K2 | 10:09 a.m. June 27, 2008
It is apparent that far too many folks are confused and, why shouldn't
they be? The current LDS Church instituted plural marriage (i.e., one husband
to more than one wife. The LDS Church discontinued (but not in total) the
practice when it was politically expedient (we are talking statehood here folks
and "obeying the laws of the land") to do so. Now, the mere fact that
it is an LDS doctrine that the practice is part-and-parcel of the next existence
(regardless of how present-day members, particularly active LDS women, think
about it). Huge numbers of Utahns have polygamists in their own carefully
researched family trees and it is part of their "families are forever"
mantra. What Jan Shipps calls "tradition" I would refer to as their
"legacy". The good thing about the Texas and Arizona-Utah
"raids" is that someone is trying to insure that underaged children
and members are not being exploited by a few in these splinter groups. The
"Christian" thing is nearly totally irrelevant to this no matter how
people try to spin it. This is about human beings, their history, their
frailties, and the effect they have on the here-and-now.
To: Brother Chuck Schroeder | 10:13 a.m. June 27, 2008
You wrote:
"I don't think the LDS Church can say that they no longer practice polygamy as long as D&C 132 is still taught as doctrine. As you are aware, the FLDS uses Section 132 as the sole reason they practice polygamy.
The LDS Church needs to clarify or distance itself from Section 132 if it doesn't want to be seen by the rest of the world as practicing polygamy."
I just read verses 60-63. It's pretty clear from those verses that polygamy is doctrine. Here or in the afterlife, it is doctrine.
"I don't think the LDS Church can say that they no longer practice polygamy as long as D&C 132 is still taught as doctrine. As you are aware, the FLDS uses Section 132 as the sole reason they practice polygamy.
The LDS Church needs to clarify or distance itself from Section 132 if it doesn't want to be seen by the rest of the world as practicing polygamy."
I just read verses 60-63. It's pretty clear from those verses that polygamy is doctrine. Here or in the afterlife, it is doctrine.
Daniel | 10:13 a.m. June 27, 2008
NOPE! FLDS are nothing like LDS.
FLDS are men who only live to commit adultery and control womankind, The (FLDS) only purpose is to have as many women servants as possible in this life. The FLDS men indulge their entire lives into having sex. FLDS is a sex based organization. On the other hand, the LDS are a true religion and don't practice plural marriage. They believe in God and are true Christians.
FLDS are men who only live to commit adultery and control womankind, The (FLDS) only purpose is to have as many women servants as possible in this life. The FLDS men indulge their entire lives into having sex. FLDS is a sex based organization. On the other hand, the LDS are a true religion and don't practice plural marriage. They believe in God and are true Christians.
Mormons are hated | 10:26 a.m. June 27, 2008
Mormons are hated because of their hypocrisy and sense of moral superiority.
The LDS gay-bashing amendment in California is just the latest example. In
fact, the FLDS are morally superior to mainline LDS because they don't
change their theology every Monday and Thursday, depending the leader's
economic and political interests.
Matt | 10:27 a.m. June 27, 2008
I like peanut butter sandwiches....oh wait wrong forum.
Mom in MO | 10:49 a.m. June 27, 2008
First, there is belief. Then, there is behavior. You may believe it is your
constitutional right to marry as many women as you please (the pursuit of
happiness?). But if a law is passed prohibiting plural marriage, you know that
you are breaking the law and risking imprisonment. So your behavior changes. I
may believe brown-eyed people are bad and should die. As long as I don't
act out on my belief, I'm not breaking any laws. I can believe anything I
want, as long as my behavior complies with the law. This is one difference
between LDS and flds. LDS Church changed behavior to come into compliance with
law, flds didn't. See?
To Grandpa Phil and others | 10:55 a.m. June 27, 2008
I enjoyed reading all of your comments! I can see how perhaps you might think as
you do! My parents were both raised catholic and protestant and both joined the
LDS church in their late teens. There is a lot of confusion about truth, some
of which I am still learning myself. Gratefully there are a few people
everywhere that continue to teach me. At the age of 40, however, I do have a
testimony of the retored gospel of Jesus Christ which is the LDS belief I belong
to. I am a devout Christian who serves my Savior everyday and all day!!! I am
grateful for my membership in the church where I can live a high moral life and
where a church keeps me actively making and keeping covenants (promises). This
makes every action of mine accountable, especially when I am honest! It is
unfortunate that some are not, like the FLDS leaders who are great at
manipulating the truth to get gain! Real truth brings about nations of peace and
posperity-this is my dream for everyone!!! I hope it's yours. If it is I
know you will continue seeking for the real truth-Contact your local L.D.S.
missionaries:)
Anonymous | 10:57 a.m. June 27, 2008
Let us oft speak kind words to each other,
At home or where'er we may be...
...Oh, the kind words we give shall in memory live,
And sunshine forever impart.
Let us oft speak kind words to each other;
Kind words are sweet tones of the heart
At home or where'er we may be...
...Oh, the kind words we give shall in memory live,
And sunshine forever impart.
Let us oft speak kind words to each other;
Kind words are sweet tones of the heart
realitycheck | 11:15 a.m. June 27, 2008
Most religions have a common foundation in the recognition of God, and most
mainstream religions have a common recognition of a savior. More than a few take
it a step further, such as multiple levels of heaven (Mormon) or specific prayer
requirements (Muslims). And some go to extremes (FLDS) or are very strict
(FLDS, some Muslim faiths, etc).
What I find amusing is that many will strictly follow these doctrines yet not follow basic human morals. They will force people to do things that they don't want to do, they will lie, cheat, and steal without a second thought, and hurt others in the name of religion.
It seems to me that the clearest path to heaven is to be a good person and be kind to others, not to follow some strange doctrine passed down by people that you don't even know.
I look at it this way:
If you are wrong, not only have you wasted your entire life, you will pay for the harm you did to others.
If you're right, I still get to heaven because I was a good person and was kind and considerate to others. And I get to enjoy life!
What I find amusing is that many will strictly follow these doctrines yet not follow basic human morals. They will force people to do things that they don't want to do, they will lie, cheat, and steal without a second thought, and hurt others in the name of religion.
It seems to me that the clearest path to heaven is to be a good person and be kind to others, not to follow some strange doctrine passed down by people that you don't even know.
I look at it this way:
If you are wrong, not only have you wasted your entire life, you will pay for the harm you did to others.
If you're right, I still get to heaven because I was a good person and was kind and considerate to others. And I get to enjoy life!
Anonymous | 11:21 a.m. June 27, 2008
Ahh.. so glad I'm free from the silly quarrels of the religious!
Mahonri | 11:34 a.m. June 27, 2008
Fundamentalist LDS are LDS, it says so right in the name. Better the Mormons
quit referring to themselves as 'the Church of Jesus Christ' as that
name legally belongs to a Pennsylvania mormon group. Also quit using the term
'Church of Christ' as that belongs to the 'Temple Lot
Mormons' in Independence, Missouri.(You remember, where the big Temple will
be built and Jesus will come to when he returns)
LDS Lawyers might as well shut up. They are arguing how many prophets can dance on the horn of an angel, wasting tithing money and doing nothing but confirming our low opinion of lawyers with their simpering.
LDS Lawyers might as well shut up. They are arguing how many prophets can dance on the horn of an angel, wasting tithing money and doing nothing but confirming our low opinion of lawyers with their simpering.
Be responsible | 11:35 a.m. June 27, 2008
The church wanting nothing do to with the FLDS and plural marriage is like an
industrial company that originally had hazardous waist as a by product that was
buried and forgotten. They now use cleaner methods and do not want to be
responsible for the terrible mess they left in the ground.
Not Flds | 11:38 a.m. June 27, 2008
Practice what you preach and quit raping young girls!
David the Ex-mo | 11:44 a.m. June 27, 2008
I find it shocking that so many write that God told Abraham to have
concubines...odd I read that it was Sarah. When did she become a god?
In CA | 11:43 a.m. June 27, 2008
To: Mormons are hated | 10:26 a.m. June 27, 2008
For a group that is only 2% of the USA, you really exhibit extreme problems at them. You might want to consider getting a life.
For a group that is only 2% of the USA, you really exhibit extreme problems at them. You might want to consider getting a life.
To: just be nice 9:46 a.m. | 11:44 a.m. June 27, 2008
LOL! You wish people would be more interested in learning and being accurate?
I can argue Jewish history, archaeology and practices with you all day long.
You obviously are under the erroneous belief that because some Jewish patriarchs
practiced polygamy, that they have therefore set an example for all to follow.
The fact is that polygamy was not a Jewish religious ritual; and yet amusingly
enough, the Mormons have made it one. Polygamy was never commanded by God (go
ahead and re-read your Old Testament). But we do know for a fact from various
writings that it was ALLOWED under Jewish CIVIL law under very strict
circumstances--primarily to protect the loss of family property rights. It was
a violation of Jewish law to take another wife without meeting the proper
criteria, and of course there are always some who will choose to violate laws or
will become a victim of circumstance, whatever the reason. Many of you, like
Joseph Smith, who have no knowledge of ancient Hebrew customs, automatically
assume that because some larger than life figure in the Bible was a polygamist,
then the practice must have been divinely inspired. Ooops!
Anonymous | 11:47 a.m. June 27, 2008
They started it, end of that.
SLC LDS | 11:50 a.m. June 27, 2008
The LDS church needs to prohibit the FLDS from using the term LDS. I assume the term LDS is trademarked and should be protected as such. Sue the FLDS for infringement.
13 million, ya right | 11:52 a.m. June 27, 2008
No they don't really have 13 million members because they count people like
myself who have not been to church in 10 years and have opened my eyes to the
falsehoods and deceptions of the "church". I also know at least 50
people who are just like me who have left the church but they still count as a
member.
You can convince yourself of anything if you want to believe it bad enough.
You can convince yourself of anything if you want to believe it bad enough.
John Lambert | 12:00 p.m. June 27, 2008
To AJ,
If you read any media report on the church from a source outside Utah they will call us "The Mormon Church". I am going to go dig up a few and report back.
If you read any media report on the church from a source outside Utah they will call us "The Mormon Church". I am going to go dig up a few and report back.
Tim | 12:07 p.m. June 27, 2008
Mormons are a false religion. Man created polygamy. No religion involved. So
quit with the false beliefs, and learn to be nice to the ladies. Anyway, most
ladies are smarter than most men. One wife is great and I have one. And one wife
is enough for a good men who are not seeking out adultery.
Confused Christian | 12:13 p.m. June 27, 2008
Several years ago our church studied several cults and their basic beliefs. We
studied LDS and FLDS among other cults. Most of the information was gleaned from
libraries and the internet. My questions are directed at the LDS people on this
board. I see so many similarities between the two groups FLDS and LDS. What will
make me believe that they are not close in relation besides the obvious
(polygamy,child brides,warren jeffs)? Don't the two read and practice the
book of mormon? Don't the two believe in Joseph Smith? If that is so, how
can us non-mormans believe otherwise that the two religions are in fact mormon
religions? I seriously can not see how it is possible to seperate yourselves.
John Lambert | 12:17 p.m. June 27, 2008
Here are some leads. Boston Globe "Mormon Church obtained Vietnam draft
defferals for Romney, other Missionaries". In the article at one point
they say "leading the Mormon Church and the government to limit the number
of church missionaries who could put off their military service". From
Twin Cities.com "Mormon Church Enters California Gay Marriage Fight".
Then there is a book "Facts on the Mormon Church". Yahoo news ran an
article under the title "Mormon Church enters California Gay Marrige
fight". Foxnew said "Wikilinks took on the Mormon Church".
There there is the Clarkson integrator. It has an article with the headline "Sexual Scandal in the Mormon church". Later in the article it say "Warren Jeffs is the leader of a sect of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints". There is clearly confusion.
There there is the Clarkson integrator. It has an article with the headline "Sexual Scandal in the Mormon church". Later in the article it say "Warren Jeffs is the leader of a sect of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints". There is clearly confusion.
Jason | 12:19 p.m. June 27, 2008
Mormon fairy tales. What a mess they have become.
Pablo | 12:21 p.m. June 27, 2008
Mormons are fond of quoting from Matthew "Wherefore by their fruits ye
shall know them." Polygamy, whether praticed by early Mormons or by
today's FLDS is clearly a fruit of Mormonism.
John Lambert | 12:24 p.m. June 27, 2008
Oddly enough that reference to the YFZ ranch showed up even though I excluded
any article mentioning polygamy from my search.
Helen M. Kimball | 12:32 p.m. June 27, 2008
FLDS and LDS have way more similarities than differences. In fact there are
hardly any differences.
John Lambert | 12:38 p.m. June 27, 2008
To Houstonian 2,
Go look up the aricle from the Clarkson investigator and tell me how any reader will know that this is not The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Also, go look at the comments about when Jeffs got caught in the Los Angeles Times. Everyone was saying the church does not denounce Jeffs enough. It seems no matter what we do some people will gripe.
Go look up the aricle from the Clarkson investigator and tell me how any reader will know that this is not The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Also, go look at the comments about when Jeffs got caught in the Los Angeles Times. Everyone was saying the church does not denounce Jeffs enough. It seems no matter what we do some people will gripe.
Jessica | 12:43 p.m. June 27, 2008
The transition to monogamy was not easy for the LDS Church because polygamy had played such a central role in Mormon doctrine and culture for so long. It was regarded as theologically necessary for complete salvation. Many church leaders therefore continued to promote polygamy, inaugurating what has been called the post-Manifesto era. The Woodruff presidency, including George Q. Cannon and Joseph F. Smith, sent Mormons to church colonies in Mexico to be married plurally. Among the apostles (members of the second-highest quorum of the church), those who married plurally after the Manifesto included John W. Taylor, Brigham Young Jr., Marriner W. Merril, Abraham Owen Woodruff, Matthias F. Cowley, Rudger Clawson, Abraham Hoagland Cannon, and George Teasdale.
Many of these marriages were solemnized in Mexico by Anthony Ivins, who later became a member of the First Presidency. Other post-Manifesto marriages were solemnized in Canada, shipboard on the Pacific Ocean, and in Utah and neighboring states.
Thomas | 12:46 p.m. June 27, 2008
The FLDS people in Texas were the target of a horrible act of injustice. On the
basis of accusations of underage marriages, the state of texas seized every
child that they had irregardless of age or gender. And yet the sole concern is
that they not be confused with the FLDS. Shame on you.
realitycheck | 12:45 p.m. June 27, 2008
it's unclear to me why so many sound so angry about a religion. If you
want to be angry, be angry at those parents that prevent their children from
realizing their full potential, in the name of a religion. Or that prey on the
weak as a religious tenet.
Like I said, it will all boil down to how you treated others, not how you worship - or even whether you worship.
Cetainly you don't believe God is vain, and demanding worship would imply vanity.
So rest assured God doesn't want you to worship Him. He wants you to care for your fellow man, and protect the weak. That's how you lead a good life.
Like I said, it will all boil down to how you treated others, not how you worship - or even whether you worship.
Cetainly you don't believe God is vain, and demanding worship would imply vanity.
So rest assured God doesn't want you to worship Him. He wants you to care for your fellow man, and protect the weak. That's how you lead a good life.
COIN-THE-PHRASE | 12:54 p.m. June 27, 2008
=
COIN THE PRASE: "TRADITIONALIST MORMONS" OR "MORMON TRADITIONALISTS" AND ALL OF ITS DERIVATIVES
(X) MODERN LDS CHURCH
(X) "TRADITIONALIST FLDS/LDS CHURCH"
INSTEAD OF FUNDAMENTALIST MORMONS
(X) MODERN CATHOLIC CHURCH
(X) TRADITIONALIST CATHOLIC CHURCH
INSTEAD OF CATHOLIC FUNDAMENTALISTS
SIGNED: RECKIPS
COIN THE PRASE: "TRADITIONALIST MORMONS" OR "MORMON TRADITIONALISTS" AND ALL OF ITS DERIVATIVES
(X) MODERN LDS CHURCH
(X) "TRADITIONALIST FLDS/LDS CHURCH"
INSTEAD OF FUNDAMENTALIST MORMONS
(X) MODERN CATHOLIC CHURCH
(X) TRADITIONALIST CATHOLIC CHURCH
INSTEAD OF CATHOLIC FUNDAMENTALISTS
SIGNED: RECKIPS
kenny | 12:55 p.m. June 27, 2008
The LDS church does not like to be referred to as mormons but they still want to
protect the name and make sure no one else is using the name Mormon either. I
think there are a few people on the "management level" of the church
who are handling this whole lds/flds thing wrong.I dont believe that was their
intention but thats the way its looking. Very very political if you ask me.There
is separation of church and state but not church and politics.
kenny | 1:03 p.m. June 27, 2008
I know what. Let all count to 10 and bury all this nonsence.To you non mormons
you can get back to trying to disprove the book of mormon and to all you mormons
get back to doing your home/visiting teaching!!!!!!!! Signed, Your Mommy
(but its fun!!!!!!!!!!)
(but its fun!!!!!!!!!!)
To: John Lambert | 1:07 p.m. June 27, 2008
John,
Please stop posting so much. We all know your opinion. It would be nice to read someone else's opinion once in a while.
The Deseret News needs to have a rule that you cannot post more than 10 comments on each topic.
I'm sure I speak for most of the readers and contributors to this board.
Please stop posting so much. We all know your opinion. It would be nice to read someone else's opinion once in a while.
The Deseret News needs to have a rule that you cannot post more than 10 comments on each topic.
I'm sure I speak for most of the readers and contributors to this board.
kenny | 1:13 p.m. June 27, 2008
Thomas..................... you are wonderful!!!!! thats my point.I say to LDS
church members, if you wont become concerned with the real issues that went on
in TExas then you have no business calling yourself a saint. A true body of
Saints would be there helping those people regardless of what they believe
instead of turning their backs on our once brothers and sisters!!!!Latter Day
Saints need to practice their faith as well as preach it.Put polygamy aside and
be true Latter Day Saints.
Linda Lamb | 1:18 p.m. June 27, 2008
As a Protestant follower of Jesus Christ who has been following and praying for
the FLDS situation, I've seen a sincerity in those parents. They might
have had a corrupt leader, as other churches have had from time to time. They
might not have the best leaders speaking for them now, but for the most part,
those are some of the most humble and forgiving people I've every seen.
Their sense of being a "peoplehood" with unique customs are strange to
us, but there is something good within these people and the lifestyle is better
than what the rest of us are seeing in our own cities. They are acting out the
spirit and teachings of Jesus Christ. I think it somehow threatens the rest of
us. And maybe it should. Perhaps we as Christians should take inventory about
how our "religion" is really practiced in the world and work on areas
that we need to clean up about ourselves rather than judging those who boldly
practice what they believe to be right. It would be good if we all cast aside
those things which separate us as Christians and unite in love and concern for
those hurting.
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A package of videos and written statements of clarification were posted on the LDS Church's Web site Thursday in an effort to inform the media and the public of the differences between the LDS Church and the Fundamentalist LDS Church.
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