Reader comments
LDS Church backs marriage measure on California ballot
699 comments | Read story
Two Thoughts | 1:44 p.m. June 24, 2008
Thought #1: Please don't associate the natural with the unnatural. People
who have a heterosexual relationship can bare children. Those who are not can
not bare children. Homosexuality is purely unnatural. Because it is nature to
procreate. The marriage of two people has always been for the purpose of
creating family units. Divorce is a weakness of men not an accepted covenant of
God. A divorce is wrong even though widely accepted. Now to accpet gay marriages
would be another assault on this covenant and term.
Thought #2: What one has to determine for themselves is if they will accept the counsel of President Thomas S. Monson. President Monson claims to have received direction from the Savior Himself on this issue. We then have to determine if this direction is of God or not. One must consider if raising their hand at the last conference was in full support of the newly called Prophet and mouthpiece of the Lord or simply a gesture of oneself to fit in with the masses and simply lie in wait to accept or reject what we think is God's will.
As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.
Thought #2: What one has to determine for themselves is if they will accept the counsel of President Thomas S. Monson. President Monson claims to have received direction from the Savior Himself on this issue. We then have to determine if this direction is of God or not. One must consider if raising their hand at the last conference was in full support of the newly called Prophet and mouthpiece of the Lord or simply a gesture of oneself to fit in with the masses and simply lie in wait to accept or reject what we think is God's will.
As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.
Steve-Re:Re:Steve-LDS&FreeAgency | 1:48 p.m. June 24, 2008
By not making it a law that states people of the same gender can't marry
you are removing the choice to do so. An act (their marriage) which harms
nobody but the individual (as you and I believe God wouldn't honor such a
union, that these people would still be commiting the sin of fornication).
Can you please tell me how allowing two people of the same gender to marry harms you or I? How does it directly effect/harm people who stick to God's revelation that only a man and woman should be doing it?
Exactly how is society going to fall apart if we allow them to marry? Less than 100 years ago many thought it would be the break down of society if a black person married a white. Has the allowance and acceptance of inter-racial marriage done that damage? No. So why should same sex marriages be any different?
Can you please tell me how allowing two people of the same gender to marry harms you or I? How does it directly effect/harm people who stick to God's revelation that only a man and woman should be doing it?
Exactly how is society going to fall apart if we allow them to marry? Less than 100 years ago many thought it would be the break down of society if a black person married a white. Has the allowance and acceptance of inter-racial marriage done that damage? No. So why should same sex marriages be any different?
Comments continue below
I'm worried... | 1:50 p.m. June 24, 2008
I'm afraid the Church is simply creating more enemies. As gay marriage
becomes more acceptable in society (and it IS becoming more acceptable) Mormons
will continue to be seen as a "fringe" religion.
By encouraging actions that make members stand out as being "bigoted" and lacking empathy and understanding, less and less people will be inclined to join.
I already see this problem with my young nieces and nephews. Over half of them have left the Church mainly because of the stigma they feel that comes along with being a member. Instead of being an organization they feel "proud" to belong to, I'm afraid they now feel ashamed.
By encouraging actions that make members stand out as being "bigoted" and lacking empathy and understanding, less and less people will be inclined to join.
I already see this problem with my young nieces and nephews. Over half of them have left the Church mainly because of the stigma they feel that comes along with being a member. Instead of being an organization they feel "proud" to belong to, I'm afraid they now feel ashamed.
Lakers | 1:51 p.m. June 24, 2008
The definition of marriage is as follows:
marriage: The institution whereby MEN and WOMEN are joined in a special kind of social and legal dependence for the purpose of founding and maintaining a family. (See mr. Webster)
Notice the definition did not say Men and Men or Women and Women. The pupose is for founding and maintaining a family. Can a Man and a man found a family? I would like to see that happen by natural means. IT will not ever happen, god made sure of that.
Gay and Lesbians (GL's) have perverted themselves, they perverted the meaning of the word gay. and now they want to pervert the family unit.
These perverts must be stopped!!!! GL behavior is WRONG!!!
marriage: The institution whereby MEN and WOMEN are joined in a special kind of social and legal dependence for the purpose of founding and maintaining a family. (See mr. Webster)
Notice the definition did not say Men and Men or Women and Women. The pupose is for founding and maintaining a family. Can a Man and a man found a family? I would like to see that happen by natural means. IT will not ever happen, god made sure of that.
Gay and Lesbians (GL's) have perverted themselves, they perverted the meaning of the word gay. and now they want to pervert the family unit.
These perverts must be stopped!!!! GL behavior is WRONG!!!
Once again... | 1:51 p.m. June 24, 2008
If its "all about the children" then STOP SMOKERS FROM GETTING
MARRIED. Children of smokers are twice as likely to pick up this "lifestyle
choice" as children of non-smokers. Something that kills 400,000 Americans
every year. Yet I don't hear a peep from anyone demanding a law against
letting smokers get married.
We'll let alcoholics, pedophiles, rapists, drug dealers and convicted murders get married. NO ONE is out demanding they be prohibited from getting married. Can anyone show me one sane reason why any of these would be LESS of a threat to children than a gay couple?
We'll let alcoholics, pedophiles, rapists, drug dealers and convicted murders get married. NO ONE is out demanding they be prohibited from getting married. Can anyone show me one sane reason why any of these would be LESS of a threat to children than a gay couple?
More Clarity... | 1:53 p.m. June 24, 2008
Empathy and Compassion are not values while mired in ignorance. If a murderer is
at my door and willing to kill my children, I am grabbing a bigger weapon. I am
protecting that which I love and hold dear. I am hopeful that the murderer will
not enter because I will shoot to kill, with love and compassion for my
children.
Therefore it is both ignorant and rediculous to hear the word of Christ on the subject through His duly sustained Prophet and to twist into something that meets your personal agenda.
As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.
Therefore it is both ignorant and rediculous to hear the word of Christ on the subject through His duly sustained Prophet and to twist into something that meets your personal agenda.
As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.
Scott S | 1:54 p.m. June 24, 2008
Could it be that Mormons are speaking up while they are still able to do so?
Given the growing body of DNA evidence supporting a genetic basis for
homosexuality vs. the nearly conclusive DNA evidence dismissing all claims of
Book of Mormon authenticity, same-sex marriage will certainly be around in the
future. Mormons? Perhaps not.
New revelation will come | 1:55 p.m. June 24, 2008
It will come when the GAs realize that they are allowing the church to be pulled
apart by this issue.
Even if there are a small number of gay members there is a large number of families who have to deal with this issue. There are marriages that are destroyed when someone who married hoping to deny that they were gay can't deal with it anymore. Their spouses and children are pitched into pain and chaos. Parents live with kids who are struggling until they leave the church or end their misery in violence or self-medicate themselves into oblivion and addiction.
When it comes it will be a dark day for people who have shored up their consciences with hateful speech and ideas. But you'll have to change then so perhaps some softening of the hearts is in order now for the sake of your brothers and sisters who honestly struggle and for the sake of your own openness to the change that's coming.
Even if there are a small number of gay members there is a large number of families who have to deal with this issue. There are marriages that are destroyed when someone who married hoping to deny that they were gay can't deal with it anymore. Their spouses and children are pitched into pain and chaos. Parents live with kids who are struggling until they leave the church or end their misery in violence or self-medicate themselves into oblivion and addiction.
When it comes it will be a dark day for people who have shored up their consciences with hateful speech and ideas. But you'll have to change then so perhaps some softening of the hearts is in order now for the sake of your brothers and sisters who honestly struggle and for the sake of your own openness to the change that's coming.
Tell me? | 1:55 p.m. June 24, 2008
Who takes marriage advice from a church that esteems leaders and prophets who
had 30-50 wives, married teenagers, disposed of women's living husbands so
they could marry them, intimidated fathers into giving up their daughters under
threat of damnation, and sealed plural marriages for 10 years after their
Manifesto abolishing polygamy?
Janis | 1:56 p.m. June 24, 2008
I think polygamy is just as bad or worse than Gay relationships. The church has
nothing to spout off about on moral conduct. Geez! Look at your LDS history,
folks, and PLEASE don't write back and tell me the Mormon woman were just
fine with the practice of polygamy. I know for a true fact that they were
miserable! I am so tired of all this almighty pious BS!
re: Too much pqwer | 1:57 p.m. June 24, 2008
"But, the most troubling of all is the power that the Supreme Court has to
over turn what the majority wants."
Reactionary knuckle-draggers 50 years ago said the same thing about giving equal rights to blacks.
Reactionary knuckle-draggers 50 years ago said the same thing about giving equal rights to blacks.
The world | 2:00 p.m. June 24, 2008
I love how Jesus Christ taught that "the world" hates Him and His
Apostles or disciples. (John 17:14-16)
Nothing has changed, God is unchangeable, so is His Gospel and laws. Just because man changes doesn't mean God did. The world hated Christ and His message when He was on the earth, they will hate it today as well. Therefore all the posts that indicate how uneducated or narrow minded the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is, you are fulfilling what Jesus spoke of. So, thank you for fighting the kingdom of God on the earth. It shows that it is true.
It is interesting that one thing that caused the fall of Sodom and Gomorrah was homosexuality, and we are trying to embrace it as a nation, I pity the fool who is vying for our destruction. And you wonder why so many bad things are happening right now in the world, they will get worse.
Nothing has changed, God is unchangeable, so is His Gospel and laws. Just because man changes doesn't mean God did. The world hated Christ and His message when He was on the earth, they will hate it today as well. Therefore all the posts that indicate how uneducated or narrow minded the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is, you are fulfilling what Jesus spoke of. So, thank you for fighting the kingdom of God on the earth. It shows that it is true.
It is interesting that one thing that caused the fall of Sodom and Gomorrah was homosexuality, and we are trying to embrace it as a nation, I pity the fool who is vying for our destruction. And you wonder why so many bad things are happening right now in the world, they will get worse.
Dave | 2:00 p.m. June 24, 2008
If the Mormon church really wanted to take a moral stand why don't they
renounce war? Why don't they preach pacifism? Why do they praise the
armies of Helaman and not the parents who actually laid down their arms? War
kills, war destroys families. Yet, they piddle their time on this?
Church and State? | 2:00 p.m. June 24, 2008
It seems to me that the government fining or taking away tax-exempt status from
churches that object to issues involving gay marriage is the true violation of
the separation of church and state. Cases that have occurred involving this are
an extremely dangerous precedent that seem to imply that the government can
force churches to change the exercise of their beliefs.
It does seem though, the government needs to make a solid ruling on what marriage is, and it should be defined by a majority of the people, and not brought down by the judiciary. Otherwise, simply stating that it's unconstitutional to define marriage as between a man and a woman seems to make positions against plural marriage unjustifiable, or even people marrying animals... obviously there has to be an agreed upon standard.
Also, I don't understand why society doesn't focus more on changes in hospital and insurance regulations to allow individuals to designate beneficiaries... it seems like that would solve some of the problems.
It does seem though, the government needs to make a solid ruling on what marriage is, and it should be defined by a majority of the people, and not brought down by the judiciary. Otherwise, simply stating that it's unconstitutional to define marriage as between a man and a woman seems to make positions against plural marriage unjustifiable, or even people marrying animals... obviously there has to be an agreed upon standard.
Also, I don't understand why society doesn't focus more on changes in hospital and insurance regulations to allow individuals to designate beneficiaries... it seems like that would solve some of the problems.
ToTwo Thoughts | 2:04 p.m. June 24, 2008
"President Monson claims to have received direction from the Savior Himself
on this issue."
Please give references to this statement. I have not heard, "Thus sayeth the Lord." Where did you hear, read this?
Please give references to this statement. I have not heard, "Thus sayeth the Lord." Where did you hear, read this?
bleedkentuckyblue re: to Twothou | 2:10 p.m. June 24, 2008
How about D&C 1:38? The prophet does not have to say, thus saith the Lord to
have authority from God...
What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.
What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.
Stop Attacking Marriage | 2:09 p.m. June 24, 2008
Marriage is between a man and a woman.
God created male and female. Children are born to a man and a woman. The natural order would provide children with a father and a mother--a family.
All the rights of being born a citizen of America are given to everyone regardless of how we orientate our sexual preference. Any of us can choose to get married under the definition of marriage being between a man and a woman. Any of us can choose freedom, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and any other equalities granted us.
The only thing under attack here is marriage. Marriage as we know it, if redefined, will be destroyed. Redefining marriage will not give gays any more rights than they already have, it will just mean that we, society, accept their actions. Tolerance is not acceptance. Do what you will but don't force us to accept it on the same level of moral actions.
I unconditionally love everyone, but I do not unconditionally accept everything they do, and that does not make me less Christlike, it makes me more Christlike. He loves you for more than you do yourself. Wanting more for you isn't hate.
God created male and female. Children are born to a man and a woman. The natural order would provide children with a father and a mother--a family.
All the rights of being born a citizen of America are given to everyone regardless of how we orientate our sexual preference. Any of us can choose to get married under the definition of marriage being between a man and a woman. Any of us can choose freedom, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and any other equalities granted us.
The only thing under attack here is marriage. Marriage as we know it, if redefined, will be destroyed. Redefining marriage will not give gays any more rights than they already have, it will just mean that we, society, accept their actions. Tolerance is not acceptance. Do what you will but don't force us to accept it on the same level of moral actions.
I unconditionally love everyone, but I do not unconditionally accept everything they do, and that does not make me less Christlike, it makes me more Christlike. He loves you for more than you do yourself. Wanting more for you isn't hate.
YBU | 2:10 p.m. June 24, 2008
Please someone,help me understand why you would want to vote for something that
goes against the constitution.
Why you would think that only the heterosexuals should have the privileges of marriage other than you think it is normal and natural and children should have both parents. This is a little late for that. The horse is out of the barn and now you want to close the door. Children are born to unwed mothers, homosexuals live as spouses now and have children that they are raising. Is it just a stand for your beliefs, or is it trying to punish those who live a different kind of life than what you think they should.
Why you would think that only the heterosexuals should have the privileges of marriage other than you think it is normal and natural and children should have both parents. This is a little late for that. The horse is out of the barn and now you want to close the door. Children are born to unwed mothers, homosexuals live as spouses now and have children that they are raising. Is it just a stand for your beliefs, or is it trying to punish those who live a different kind of life than what you think they should.
Think | 2:12 p.m. June 24, 2008
You think that same sex marriage will not affect your life? Talk to those who
felt the same in Mass. They learned real quick when their young children came
home from school saying that boys could marry boys and girls could marry girls,
and there was nothing wrong with it. When the parents asked the school system
about this they were told it was no big deal. The parents asked that if this
was going to be a topic of conversation in the future that they be notified.
The school refused to do so, and said that they did not have to let the parents
know. So, it is OK not to have prayer in school, or talk about the Bible, but
it is OK to teach our children things that we morally do not believe in. Do you
see where this is going? What about the adoption agency that had to close their
doors after having placed hundreds of hard to place children in loving home just
because they did not place children in same sex couples homes. This was a
religious based adoption agency. Think it won't affect you? Think again.
Richard G. | 2:12 p.m. June 24, 2008
The Mormon church again is misbehaving in a reprehensible, bigoted manner.
This gay bashing by your church must stop.
Until it does, I will feel no guilt whatsoever in promoting hatred against the Mormon church.
You reap what you sow, sheep people!
This gay bashing by your church must stop.
Until it does, I will feel no guilt whatsoever in promoting hatred against the Mormon church.
You reap what you sow, sheep people!
lakers | 2:15 p.m. June 24, 2008
I wonder if the recent fires in california have anything to do with the laws
that are currently in place for gay marriage?
Standing Up | 2:16 p.m. June 24, 2008
I want all of you to know that it's the gospel that makes up the church,
and not the people. Some here assume that when they meet a member of the church
who is homophobic perhaps, or in some other way discriminative, that all of the
church members are that way. I can assure you that this is not true.
Being younger, I don't know as much as other people do about this long, drawn out issue. However, this I do know: agency is there for all. I am so blessed to live in the United States. But God gave us agency as a test. He knew it would be hard, so he gave us commandments, guidelines, to help us along the way. Being homosexual doesn't make someone a bad person. Not in the least! But it doesn't fit into His plan for us - it wasn't supposed to be that way.
To The Real Tragedy:
I'm very sorry for your loss. But keep strong and always look to God as a friend and teacher.
And to Steve: Thank you. I completely agree.
Being younger, I don't know as much as other people do about this long, drawn out issue. However, this I do know: agency is there for all. I am so blessed to live in the United States. But God gave us agency as a test. He knew it would be hard, so he gave us commandments, guidelines, to help us along the way. Being homosexual doesn't make someone a bad person. Not in the least! But it doesn't fit into His plan for us - it wasn't supposed to be that way.
To The Real Tragedy:
I'm very sorry for your loss. But keep strong and always look to God as a friend and teacher.
And to Steve: Thank you. I completely agree.
re: More Clarity... | 2:16 p.m. June 24, 2008
Your analogy is horribly flawed. Homosexuals are not threatening you or your
children as the murder at your door is.
re: Scott S | 2:18 p.m. June 24, 2008
Do a little research buddy and you will find you are wrong. Do you really
believe every thing you read? Come on.
Re: I'm Worried | 2:18 p.m. June 24, 2008
If standing up for whats right creates enemies, so be it. Do you think the
church should cave in to every philosophy of man so they don't make someone
angry?
As for being called a bigot. Who cares. Homosexuals throw that word around so much that it is now meaningless. It's a label that gets put on anyone who disagrees with them.
If your family members are so weak as to leave because they felt a stigma then they are to blame not the church. I'll stand for truth no matter what the world thinks.
As for being called a bigot. Who cares. Homosexuals throw that word around so much that it is now meaningless. It's a label that gets put on anyone who disagrees with them.
If your family members are so weak as to leave because they felt a stigma then they are to blame not the church. I'll stand for truth no matter what the world thinks.
hithere | 2:21 p.m. June 24, 2008
I thought Mormons were all for alternative marital arrangements. Afterall,
church founder Joseph Smith was one the first to introduce the alternative
marital practice of one man marrying a baker's-dozen of underage wives.
Then it was called "spiritual wifery". What's the big deal if two
dudes decide to marry. Or a woman, to several men. Gay marriage can be termed
"Spiritual Menery" or something. There. We're all happy now.
Anonymous | 2:21 p.m. June 24, 2008
To those concerned that one day gays will insist on being married in the temple,
here's a news flash-we don't want to get married in the temple because
we know the temple is a fraud just like we know the Mormon Church's
teaching that God doesn't love gays for who they are is a fraud! We only
want to be allowed to have civil marriages just as straight people are allowed.
re: Tell me | 2:22 p.m. June 24, 2008
Get your facts straight before you spout off. Your facts are incorrect.
re: Happy w/ the Lord, sad for m | 2:23 p.m. June 24, 2008
"But none of us have the right to redefine marriage, thereby destroying
what marriage is."
Society has been redefining itself for centuries and it has proven to have been for the better. We got rid of slavery (and slavery was approved in the Scriptures), we started treating women like people instead of property (unlike the "traditional" societies) etc, etc, etc.
"It takes a man and a woman to create a child. Every child should have the right to be born into a family with a mother and a father."
But they DON'T have that right and many children have grown up as orphans.
"How great the goodness of our God who set up familial units to have a mother and a father!"
He didn't. Learn some history. During most of "traditional" society, your average marriage lasted about eleven years before one member of the couple was DEAD, usually the woman through childbirth. Thats how "God/nature" made human society and mankind has been desperately trying to improve the crappy product.
Society has been redefining itself for centuries and it has proven to have been for the better. We got rid of slavery (and slavery was approved in the Scriptures), we started treating women like people instead of property (unlike the "traditional" societies) etc, etc, etc.
"It takes a man and a woman to create a child. Every child should have the right to be born into a family with a mother and a father."
But they DON'T have that right and many children have grown up as orphans.
"How great the goodness of our God who set up familial units to have a mother and a father!"
He didn't. Learn some history. During most of "traditional" society, your average marriage lasted about eleven years before one member of the couple was DEAD, usually the woman through childbirth. Thats how "God/nature" made human society and mankind has been desperately trying to improve the crappy product.
Pop the wop | 2:23 p.m. June 24, 2008
When Alaska had a "no gay marriage" on the ballot, I spoke against it,
based on the writings of Pres. McKay:
�To deprive an intelligent human being of his free agency is to commit the crime of the ages. To every man is given an inherent power to do right or to do wrong. In this he has free agency. He may choose the right and obtain salvation, or he may choose evil and merit abomination."
�Unwise legislation, too often prompted by political expediency, is periodically being enacted that seductively undermines man's right of free agency, robs him of his rightful liberties��
�A fundamental principle of the gospel is free agency, and ... may become a measuring rod by which the actions of men, of organizations, of nations may be judged.�
How could the LDS Church, who suffered so much abuse by those opposed to plural marriage now seek to do the same to gays? Support for the Alaska amendment was from a Regional Rep. and urged "prayerful consideration' After that prayerful consideration, I opposed the amendment.
Since that time, the judicial climate has changed, and the Prophet has spoken.
I support & will be obediant to that Prophet.
�To deprive an intelligent human being of his free agency is to commit the crime of the ages. To every man is given an inherent power to do right or to do wrong. In this he has free agency. He may choose the right and obtain salvation, or he may choose evil and merit abomination."
�Unwise legislation, too often prompted by political expediency, is periodically being enacted that seductively undermines man's right of free agency, robs him of his rightful liberties��
�A fundamental principle of the gospel is free agency, and ... may become a measuring rod by which the actions of men, of organizations, of nations may be judged.�
How could the LDS Church, who suffered so much abuse by those opposed to plural marriage now seek to do the same to gays? Support for the Alaska amendment was from a Regional Rep. and urged "prayerful consideration' After that prayerful consideration, I opposed the amendment.
Since that time, the judicial climate has changed, and the Prophet has spoken.
I support & will be obediant to that Prophet.
To Scott S 1:54 p.m. | 2:24 p.m. June 24, 2008
Scott,
Please provide a reference for the "growing body of evidence supporting a genetic basis for homosexuality".
A clue: There isn't any. Quite the contrary. All studies point away from any genetic and unlikely biological evidence for same-sex attraction. Rather, it points to a developmental disorder.
When you find a male twin who is gay, there is only a 50% chance his identical twin is also gay. Their genetics are identical. You can hardly think of a better study situation than this.
Please provide a reference for the "growing body of evidence supporting a genetic basis for homosexuality".
A clue: There isn't any. Quite the contrary. All studies point away from any genetic and unlikely biological evidence for same-sex attraction. Rather, it points to a developmental disorder.
When you find a male twin who is gay, there is only a 50% chance his identical twin is also gay. Their genetics are identical. You can hardly think of a better study situation than this.
Standing Up | 2:23 p.m. June 24, 2008
. . . For the Lord seeth not as man seeth, man looketh on the outward
appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart. (1 Sam 16:7)
People will be judged by God only. No one can assume that all homosexuals will go to hell, and the same for homophobics, racists, and EVERY ONE ELSE. We will all be judged for who we were and what we did on earth. NO ONE will be stuck in a group. We will all be judged individually.
I am standing up for God, for my religion, and for myself. And I ain't going about it quietly, either.
People will be judged by God only. No one can assume that all homosexuals will go to hell, and the same for homophobics, racists, and EVERY ONE ELSE. We will all be judged for who we were and what we did on earth. NO ONE will be stuck in a group. We will all be judged individually.
I am standing up for God, for my religion, and for myself. And I ain't going about it quietly, either.
Kathy | 2:25 p.m. June 24, 2008
I doubt it will even make the ballot. There is a great article in Metropolitan
News-Enterprise.
THE LEGAL COMMUNITY
Election Law: How One Legally Might Remove a Ballot Initiative Prior to an Election
THE LEGAL COMMUNITY
Election Law: How One Legally Might Remove a Ballot Initiative Prior to an Election
Marriage and the world | 2:27 p.m. June 24, 2008
Marriage was around throughout the world long before Christian missionaries
showed up. Its hardly a product of Judeo-Christian religions.
And don't give me any of that "they learned about it from being descendants of Noah" bit. Genesis is an allegorical parable with zero supporting evidence and a mountain of evidence against it.
And don't give me any of that "they learned about it from being descendants of Noah" bit. Genesis is an allegorical parable with zero supporting evidence and a mountain of evidence against it.
Liberation or Enslavement? | 2:28 p.m. June 24, 2008
If a hunger for liberation destroys morality then immorality will destroy liberty. The homo faction of evil is proceeding under the fashionable banner of liberation. Such trends do not a truth but a tragedy make. Deafness to scriptural history is fatal. The more normal abnormalities seem the less reason people have to be wary of them. Homosexuals try to normalize immorality so people will not be wary of it. The more coarse and crude people become, the less they are aware of it. "To confuse tolerance with permissiveness can be fatal, since it is like not knowing the difference between a mushroom and a poisonous toadstool." Evil people are not polite pluralists - they are predators. The wicked are never tolerant. The hardness that produces insensitivity toward large-scale abortions and homosexuality will not confine itself to one expression. The insensitivity will spread, it will find other focal points. Once society loses its capacity to say firmly that certain things are wrong per se, then it finds itself forever building temporary defenses, drawing new lines, falling back further, and losing its nerve. A plea for freedom to sin soon ends up in a demand for all to si
Einstein | 2:26 p.m. June 24, 2008
First to all the "enlightened, free-thinking, non-robot,
intellectuals" that condescend with their air of superiority, I have
personally learned from experiences both good and bad, that the only truly
enlightened person is someone that obeys God.
Second, when Civil Unions are supported by most Americans and they can be constructed to give similar rights as marraige, why then do the gays insist on demanding heterosexual marrage.
Answer: follow the gay progression
25 years ago--don't bash of hurt me--OK with me
15 to 20 years ago--let us out of the closet and be treated as others--OK with me
5 years ago-- we need civil unions to secure some basic rights--OK with me
NOW--we want to be equal with normal people in every way and redefine something that has already been defined by God--nope, now matter how you try to spin it, I am normal, you are not, and you are abetting the destruction of society.
FUTURE--sue churches to force them to marry them, accuse all opponents of hate crimes (and prosecute if possible), sue to allow adoptions even if the birth mother disagrees, continue to erode boy/man
boundaries. In short, the ultimate goal of gay activism is the destruction of Christianity.
Second, when Civil Unions are supported by most Americans and they can be constructed to give similar rights as marraige, why then do the gays insist on demanding heterosexual marrage.
Answer: follow the gay progression
25 years ago--don't bash of hurt me--OK with me
15 to 20 years ago--let us out of the closet and be treated as others--OK with me
5 years ago-- we need civil unions to secure some basic rights--OK with me
NOW--we want to be equal with normal people in every way and redefine something that has already been defined by God--nope, now matter how you try to spin it, I am normal, you are not, and you are abetting the destruction of society.
FUTURE--sue churches to force them to marry them, accuse all opponents of hate crimes (and prosecute if possible), sue to allow adoptions even if the birth mother disagrees, continue to erode boy/man
boundaries. In short, the ultimate goal of gay activism is the destruction of Christianity.
Anonymous | 2:29 p.m. June 24, 2008
Understanding the basic beliefs of LDS Church is the first step in understanding
why it would be so important for all members to really make a firm stand in
regards to this decision. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents,
rulers and magistrates, in obeying honoring and sustaining the law. If it were
made law that a marriage between two people of the same sex could legally marry,
then how are we supposed to honor and sustain that law. I have known many
openly gay people, and while I don�t agree with the
decision they made, it does not make them any less of a friend or a person that
I could count on. The view is that the action being taken is not in accordance
to the laws of God as we believe them, but that does not mean that the person is
a bad and wicked person, only the choice they have made. But you could say that
what it really comes down to is �how can we as a whole
Church honor and sustain a law that is the complete antithesis for the basic
beliefs of the LDS faith?�
Welcome the Fringe | 2:32 p.m. June 24, 2008
If refusal to accept the value of the homosexual lifestyle means living on the
fringe of society, I welcome that. As the church becomes more isolated in this
stance there will be more people willing to exist on the fringe with us.
Everyone is asking the wrong question here. They keep asking what would it hurt. While those issues can be argued ad nauseum with neither side conceeding. The question that still remains to be answered is what would it improve? Absolutely nothing! Any benefit gays seek could be, and in many cases already have been accomplished without marriage. I don't expect any increase in happiness in the gay community if gay marriage is legalized. If being gay makes them happy, what does marriage do for them? Make them legitimate in the eyes of God? I think not.
Everyone is asking the wrong question here. They keep asking what would it hurt. While those issues can be argued ad nauseum with neither side conceeding. The question that still remains to be answered is what would it improve? Absolutely nothing! Any benefit gays seek could be, and in many cases already have been accomplished without marriage. I don't expect any increase in happiness in the gay community if gay marriage is legalized. If being gay makes them happy, what does marriage do for them? Make them legitimate in the eyes of God? I think not.
Re: New revelation will come | 2:36 p.m. June 24, 2008
It is not the church that is pulling people apart. It is immoral practices that
are tearing people apart. Why can't anyone take responsibility for their
actions anymore?
YBU | 2:35 p.m. June 24, 2008
Yet to see anyone say why they would vote against the constitution just to limit
the privileges of a few people that you feel do not deserve to marry. If it is
just to obey your prophet, why is he making you go against that inspired
document?
Hmmm... | 2:37 p.m. June 24, 2008
Are we starting to see a little sifting of the wheat from the tares?
Hypocritical...again | 2:39 p.m. June 24, 2008
With all the bad events going on in the world, the LDS church decides to throw
it's political clout behind stopping people who want to be in a commited
relationship with full legal rights.
Think about what might have happened if they encouraged their members to do all they could to stop poverty, racism, bigotry, helping those who REALLY need a hand especially now and all the other social ills that are the REAL threats to our country. Aren't there a couple verses in the same bible that cover doing just that? What? Nobody wants to acknowledge those?
Gay marriage is a nice distration from the REAL issues that are destroying our country. It's the magician's assistant. It distracts you from what is going on behind the scenes until it's too late to notice you've been duped.
Shouldn't we expect better from those who profess to be followers of Christ?
Think about what might have happened if they encouraged their members to do all they could to stop poverty, racism, bigotry, helping those who REALLY need a hand especially now and all the other social ills that are the REAL threats to our country. Aren't there a couple verses in the same bible that cover doing just that? What? Nobody wants to acknowledge those?
Gay marriage is a nice distration from the REAL issues that are destroying our country. It's the magician's assistant. It distracts you from what is going on behind the scenes until it's too late to notice you've been duped.
Shouldn't we expect better from those who profess to be followers of Christ?
One more thought.... | 2:41 p.m. June 24, 2008
I remember (and I paraphrase) President Hinckley stated, with regard to the
Hawaii and California ballots, that according to the tenants of our faith, and
on the basis or morality, homosexuality is a sin. Threfore (this is my
statement) to condone or accept the notion of homosexual marriage in the context
of our faith on the one hand, and then to extricate the sin from the covenant on
the other hand would be in opposition to the tenant. Besides, have you ever
heard the Prophet say, "Thus sayeth the Lord..." in regards to
pornography, food storage, missionary service, etc...
Don't parse phrases. The Prophet said use your time and resources (which are gifts of God...if you believe God gave them to you) to combat this attack on our most holy covenant. You need to decide if you will do it or not.
As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.
Don't parse phrases. The Prophet said use your time and resources (which are gifts of God...if you believe God gave them to you) to combat this attack on our most holy covenant. You need to decide if you will do it or not.
As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.
to lakers | 2:40 p.m. June 24, 2008
The fires are mainly in areas where Conservatives live. They are the Republican
strongholds of the state. No West Hollywood fires or San Francisco fires.
Interesting...
@ lakers | 2:45 p.m. June 24, 2008
So, following your line of reasoniong, why hasn't Mass. been burned to a
cinder? Or Canada? Or South Africa? Or the United Kingdom?
If fire was God's way of punishing the world for doing stuff He disapproved of, the world would look like an ashtray from the day Eve bit the apple until today.
If fire was God's way of punishing the world for doing stuff He disapproved of, the world would look like an ashtray from the day Eve bit the apple until today.
marriage means family | 2:45 p.m. June 24, 2008
The greatest concern not only the LDS church, but most churches have, is the
fact that once you legalize Homosexual marriages you essentially say their union
is no different than a hetrosexual couples in the eyes of the law. In other
words, when adoption agencies look for couples to place a child with they can no
longer choose a traditional mother/father household over a homosexual household
or they will get their butts sued. When a child is put up for adoption,
traditionally that child is placed with a traditional mother/father household,
because THAT is natural and is traditional and religiously established. With
the legalization of homosexual marriages, the state (especially California) will
begin to favor homosexual couples in order to "equalize" and therefore
discriminate against traditional marriages in the adoption process thus
dipriving children of a true mother/father relationship, one that makes sense by
nature and is ordained by God. Affirmative action mindset will now seep its way
into the adoption process and reverse discrimination ensue. Just wait, it will
happen and probably already is in California.
Homosexuals: | 2:49 p.m. June 24, 2008
The new boogey man, scape goat, excuse for all the wrongs in our society.
So much easier to just blame others for whats wrong than to accept our part (i.e. who you voted for time and again because of the letter beside their name) in the way society is heading.
So much easier to just blame others for whats wrong than to accept our part (i.e. who you voted for time and again because of the letter beside their name) in the way society is heading.
law taking away rights | 2:48 p.m. June 24, 2008
Hmmm... let me see. We have our freeagency. That was God's plan yes? So,
if we can't have a law that defines marriage because it will take away our
freeagency, then why in the heck do we have laws to keep us from murdering,
stealing, etc. Don't these laws also take away my freeagency? Get real
people. Freeagency is important, but having rules and guidelines are also as
valuable. Didn't God give us rules and guidelines when he gave us the Ten
commandments? Do the Ten Commandments take away our freeagency? I don't
think so.
Even more clarity | 2:50 p.m. June 24, 2008
You are wholly wrong. The practice of homosexuality in my family would deprive
me of offspring. Therefore my analogy wherein I compared it to murder is
entirely correct. This is a battle not so different than that of Capitan Moroni
(for those of you who believe the Book of Mormon).
The value is purity/morality. Obedience to that tenet is of extreme importance. President Monson didn't just say "Oh go about your business and accept the destruction of a sacred ordinance/covenant/act". He said use your time and resource to battle it. I now personally wave my rent cloak in support of that statement and challenge all others of like mind to do the same.
Apathy condones. Active pursuit conquers.
As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.
The value is purity/morality. Obedience to that tenet is of extreme importance. President Monson didn't just say "Oh go about your business and accept the destruction of a sacred ordinance/covenant/act". He said use your time and resource to battle it. I now personally wave my rent cloak in support of that statement and challenge all others of like mind to do the same.
Apathy condones. Active pursuit conquers.
As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
- New Irish coach Brian Kelly 1:10 p.m.
- Wall Street regulatory overhaul 1:08 p.m.
- Health care tab to keep growing 12:57 p.m.
- Dr. explains Mitchell review change 12:50 p.m.
- Choir event 'experience to remember' 12:48 p.m.
- Cable falls on I-80, closing lanes 12:36 p.m.
- Iraq blasted over Iran exile treatment 12:27 p.m.
- No mortgage relief in Wall Street bill 12:22 p.m.
- Draft: Rich nations' emission cuts 12:19 p.m.
- Paula Hawkins laid to rest 12:14 p.m.
- Letters: Global warming a lie
263 - TCU to play Boise in Fiesta Bowl206
- BYU football: Bronco weighs in on Hall193
- Palin signs books, chats with fans168
- Utah/BYU rivalry can be more civil151
- Cougars going back to Vegas150
- Andersen apologizes for Jordan hoax142
- Nude bathers cited for lewdness131
- Max Hall wants to look ahead127
- Jazz fall apart late at L.A.110
David Rankin, one of Utah's youngest and ablest astrophotographers has...
There was a time when free shipping was rare. This holiday season, you...
Love him or hate him, Utah Sen. Orrin Hatch knows how to get attention.
Latest comments
Some of the comments on here reveal a horrible distortion in Christian...
The words "Stacy Peterson" come to mind here...
It won't take them long to solve this one.
WOW, SO MANY BITTER UTE'S FANS AND I THINK I KNOW THE REASONS WHY,BYU26-UTE23.
I'm about as loyal a Cougar fan as you'll ever find, but I gotta think Harvey...
'Just don't try to justify these terror murders by pretending that Christians...
I am proud of Judge Valdez and also proud of that wonderful and interesting...
Weak excuse? What will your excuse be after a loss, tomahawk chop, drum and...
I would rather see the billions of dollars being committed to Global Warming...
From the Trib: Skeem also acknowledged that at one point Mitchell had a clear...
Advertisements
To the nameless individual that replied to me that homosexuality is flamboyant and rarely ever practices the discipline, restraint, fidelity, trust and patnership - Puhleeese! How many homosexuals do you know and care about? I know many - committed couples and others still looking, many of whose relationships have stood the test of time and the judgment of others. Even the Church has adulterers and abusers. These people have the right to be allowed to commit to a willing same sex partner in love and in the law. They are not threatening you, your children. My marriage certainly isn't threatened by them. Your fear and prejudice has been taught to you.
By the way - in reference to the King James translation - pasty faced old white men with an agenda of their own traslated it!