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LDS Church backs marriage measure on California ballot
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njp | 4:12 p.m. July 2, 2008
Anyone ever hear of Sodom and Gomorah and what happened to them?????
ONE MORE RIGHTWING REPUBLICAN | 4:19 p.m. July 2, 2008
AS FOR THE CHURCHES STAND ON MARRIAGE I AGREE WITH IT TO THE EXTENT OF ONE MAN
ONE WOMAN THE REST OF THE "MARRIAGES" ARE A FARCE AND SHOULD NOT BE
RECOGNIZED IN ANY OTHER STATE. I WILL SUPPORT ANY ACTION THAT MAKES THIS A FACT
ACROSS THE NATION. AND ONE MORE THOUGHT YOUR FREEDOM TO ACT AS YOU WISH IS NOT
GOING TO BE AFFECTED BY AN AMENDMENT TO EITHER THE STATE OR FEDERAL CONSITUTION.
JUST LOOK AT ALL THE PRISONS THEY ARE FULL OF PEOPLE WHO ACTED AS THEY WANTED.
andrew | 4:57 p.m. July 2, 2008
Here's a view from New Zealand...I am a less active member of the
Church...however,I must say without any doubt...that the Church stands for
"good" and promotes values that are good for any society, especially
in a world that appears to be like a boat without a rudder in a stormy sea...the
Church is an Ensign and an Anchor....for true seekers of truth to harbour from
the evil views of the world where some call "Right" wrong and
"Wrong" right. Marriage is only right when between Mary and
John...rather than John and John....its how God designed it to be....anything
else would be wrong and would stuff up society in a way we would never
imagine....Get it right America, the rest of the world is watching....and all
sense and wisdom to your lawmakers.....choose the right!!...ka kite ano (from
New Zealand)
Comments continue below
tigger | 4:58 p.m. July 2, 2008
**Vote however you will, support the prophet, but why trample civility and
goodness in dealing with gays in your disagreements, since we all struggle with
sin?**
When I said "You say we who oppose gay marriage are blind, but it is you who are blind, hardhearted, stiffnecked, etc." I was referring to other members who called me blind for following what Pres. Monson has asked of us. He woulddn't ask it of us unless the Lord instructed him to. If calling them blind, etc., in return was offensive, oh well, I'm not concerned.
When I said "You say we who oppose gay marriage are blind, but it is you who are blind, hardhearted, stiffnecked, etc." I was referring to other members who called me blind for following what Pres. Monson has asked of us. He woulddn't ask it of us unless the Lord instructed him to. If calling them blind, etc., in return was offensive, oh well, I'm not concerned.
Sure of that | 5:41 p.m. July 2, 2008
There have been many gay people in my life and I want to say that that was one
of their only shortcomings. They were funny, highly intelligent, kind, generous
and so forth but they were attracted to the same sex. Does that mean they are
evil? No. That means we love them inspite of this complex conflict. We
don't have any right to condemn them but we have every right to protect
what we in our hearts believe is God's way and purposes. We have a duty to
do that. Thats the beauty of the law in this country of and by and for the
people. If the people find it in conflict with what they consider true and good
they can support law to uphold the institution of marriage as we've known
it for generations now. Ultimately all the chatter will be hushed by what the
majority believe. If we come to the point where the majority turn from the
teachings of our nation's Christian heritage then as the Prophets have
warned there will be calamity upon us all. Let's vote from our hearts.
Even some gay people don't believe in gay marriage.
rockhound | 5:48 p.m. July 2, 2008
AWB: the LDS church has never ever preached the principle of free agency. The
LDS church teaches the principle of "agency." Each person has
"agency," or the ability to choose for each person for themselves.
The principle of "free agency" means that each person may choose for
themselves free from any responsibility of the consequences of their choice.
There are consequences for every choice we make. Some choices result in
blessings. Some not. If you excercise your agency to make wrong moral choices
(God's Law) or wrong legan choices (man's law), then you need to be
ready to accept the responsibility for the consequences of those wrong choices.
There is a price to be paid for every wrong choice we make. Again, there is no
such thing as "free agency" only "agency."
LDS church supports the ideal | 6:54 p.m. July 2, 2008
The ideal is a family where a loving mother and father raise their children.
ConcernedParent | 9:35 p.m. July 2, 2008
RE: "This is a matter of civil marriage. It doesn't affect religious
marriage."
Mr. Melson�s pat response to the gay marriage question may make a good quote, but the issue is not at all that simple. Like the earth's ecosystems, our society is highly connected. To say that gay marriage won't affect anything or anyone is inane. Of course it will!
Traditional marriage is highly valued because it provides the most stability for children, couples, and society. This is historically/statistically verifiable. Societies which condoned the gay lifestyle have collapsed, and in modern countries which embrace gay marriage, stable family life is rapidly declining and welfare systems are taxed.
Furthermore, the gay marriage issue is already rippling through our society in another way: Massachusetts currently preaches gay marriage in public schools, and the liberal CA legislature which has previously attempted to mandate gender neutrality and gay-centered curriculum in public schools, may just get their way. Those who support gay marriage will not tell you how they want to indoctrinate your children, too.
This is a very big deal. Will this issue affect you? You bet it will!
Mr. Melson�s pat response to the gay marriage question may make a good quote, but the issue is not at all that simple. Like the earth's ecosystems, our society is highly connected. To say that gay marriage won't affect anything or anyone is inane. Of course it will!
Traditional marriage is highly valued because it provides the most stability for children, couples, and society. This is historically/statistically verifiable. Societies which condoned the gay lifestyle have collapsed, and in modern countries which embrace gay marriage, stable family life is rapidly declining and welfare systems are taxed.
Furthermore, the gay marriage issue is already rippling through our society in another way: Massachusetts currently preaches gay marriage in public schools, and the liberal CA legislature which has previously attempted to mandate gender neutrality and gay-centered curriculum in public schools, may just get their way. Those who support gay marriage will not tell you how they want to indoctrinate your children, too.
This is a very big deal. Will this issue affect you? You bet it will!
Tamara Wilcox | 10:07 p.m. July 2, 2008
The only way to show you actually believe something is to do something about it.
If we believe marriage is a sacred covenant between a man and a woman (as the
LDS Church does), it is not enough to just preach it. We must stand up for it,
promote it, try to set a good example in our own marriages, help and counsel
others to nourish their marriages. It would be wrong to turn the other way and
ignore all that is encroaching on the sacredness of marriage: divorce,
pornography, homosexuality, and infidelity. The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-Day Saints is not just an office building in downtown Salt Lake City; it
is US, the members. And if we won't DO anything (including giving of our
means and time to protect marriage) to show what we believe, then it's an
empty Church.
In God We Trust | 10:19 p.m. July 2, 2008
In this country we believe we have the freedom to do what we want, say what we
want, and be what we want. Yet when some makes a stand against the belief of
others, they are looked at as "close minded" or "homophobes"
or "behind the times." Though all of us are God's children, it
does not mean that we have to tolerate the crosscurrent and sway of "the
new morality." Let us do all within our power to bring down the tide of
tolerance (of the new morality) and bring morality to where it belongs. Look to
God and live!
sburg | 8:25 a.m. July 3, 2008
so WRZ, since gay marriage is legal and has been for years in some Scandinavian
countries and Canada, why hasn't the church been marrying gay couples in
those countries? Don't we believe in following the law of the land, or is
this just one more example of saying we believe in one thing, like the 11th
through 13th articles of faith, and doing quite another.
This is a civil issue only. The proposed amendment states the "State of California ..." shall recognize marriage only between a man and a woman. It says nothing about the religious institution of marriage, ONLY the civil one. So, why should the church care?
One's left to wonder what would Christ do? My reading of the four gospels leads me to suspect he would be disgusted with the Mormon Church that blasphemes his name with it's formal title when it sends out letters that literally tear same sex families apart, and promotes sexual promiscuity or at least serial monogamy for gay people, (and yes gay people can adopt in most states, you don't have to be married to do that).
This is a civil issue only. The proposed amendment states the "State of California ..." shall recognize marriage only between a man and a woman. It says nothing about the religious institution of marriage, ONLY the civil one. So, why should the church care?
One's left to wonder what would Christ do? My reading of the four gospels leads me to suspect he would be disgusted with the Mormon Church that blasphemes his name with it's formal title when it sends out letters that literally tear same sex families apart, and promotes sexual promiscuity or at least serial monogamy for gay people, (and yes gay people can adopt in most states, you don't have to be married to do that).
freedom | 9:52 a.m. July 3, 2008
to sburg, yes we follow the "law of the land" that doesn't mean
we should let every BAD law be voted in. just because other countries do it,
doesn't mean that we should also. we were given this land, this FREE land
as a gift, and because "where much is given, much is required" we have
been admonished to take care of it. Loving others does not mean let them do
whatever they want. Just because something is legal, it doesn't mean that
it is moral ie. abortion. Do we follow the law of the land and get an abortion
"because it is legal?", why should the church care? You better
believe that the church should care about these issues, and so should we. i
have a feeling that we have no idea of the pandora's box that will be
opened if this law passes. Study the issue, ask questions, ignore the name
calling and pray to understand- then vote what you believe is right. One way or
the other, we will all suffer the consequences (and there will be consequences.)
audra | 11:00 a.m. July 3, 2008
This is statement from OUR prophet of the Lord..I'd probably listen if I
were you!...and even if you don't believe that then fine BUT let the church
promote their beliefs just as the gay and lesbians are promoting theirs.
Erica | 11:17 a.m. July 3, 2008
We do not believe in a relative morality that shifts with every wind of societal
preferences. Truth is eternal and never bends to accomodate philosophy, no
matter how loudly stated. I absolutely intend to support the California
amendment. I fought to get Prop 22 passed to ban gay marriage in California,
and now will have to do it again because of a judge who overrode the vote of the
people. Californians are NOT for gay marriage no matter what the media and the
shouters presume and claim. We voted it down twice and will do it again.
arizona | 11:16 a.m. July 3, 2008
For one: this is NOT a hatred act against gays..but this IS a church urging
it's members to help keep the laws in standing with what they believe. How
is that different then those groups urging their supporters to vote the other
way???
I have a dear friend who is gay and while I still respect her and her choice of lifestyle, I personally do NOT believe that is the way of God. We believe in the LDS church that those supposedly "born that way" are simply given this as their weakness or trial to overcome in this life...just as one might suffer with anger issues etc. This life is a test!
I have a dear friend who is gay and while I still respect her and her choice of lifestyle, I personally do NOT believe that is the way of God. We believe in the LDS church that those supposedly "born that way" are simply given this as their weakness or trial to overcome in this life...just as one might suffer with anger issues etc. This life is a test!
D in CA | 11:57 a.m. July 3, 2008
Our God-fearing forefathers probably would have wrote to ban same-sex marriage
in the US Constitution if they would have imagined that it would happen today.
ALL LDS people should support BANNING same-sex marriage. If not, then apparently one must do some true soul searching.
I will support all organizations (including other religious organizations) that support the will of the California voters with Prop. 22. WE, THE PEOPLE, of California voted to BAN same-sex marriage. Sad that one judge decides the will of a few (in comparison) people.
ALL LDS people should support BANNING same-sex marriage. If not, then apparently one must do some true soul searching.
I will support all organizations (including other religious organizations) that support the will of the California voters with Prop. 22. WE, THE PEOPLE, of California voted to BAN same-sex marriage. Sad that one judge decides the will of a few (in comparison) people.
Carol | 2:18 p.m. July 3, 2008
There is only one way to know if a prophet is speaking for God. That is to
listen to his words, read the words of former prophets in the scriptures, keep
God's commandments, and pray for guidance. Then be patient and with
humility continue to pray to be led to the truth and not be deceived. God will
not deceive us. We allow ourselves to be deceived through pride and arrogance,
thinking we know more than God, and that his laws have changed as times have
changed.
God has counseled us to love him with "all our hearts, might and minds" and to "love our neighbors as ourselves." We are not loving our gay neighbors by pretending that gay marriage is a good thing.
God's laws are in place to help us, not to take away our freedoms. The more we live in accordance with his laws, the more freedom we have. Because he loves us unconditionally he allows us to have agency. But with agency comes responsibility, as well as consequences. The consequences of non-gender marriage are not completely known, but society can not be perpetuated in genderless homes. God knows more than man. Let's listen to him.
God has counseled us to love him with "all our hearts, might and minds" and to "love our neighbors as ourselves." We are not loving our gay neighbors by pretending that gay marriage is a good thing.
God's laws are in place to help us, not to take away our freedoms. The more we live in accordance with his laws, the more freedom we have. Because he loves us unconditionally he allows us to have agency. But with agency comes responsibility, as well as consequences. The consequences of non-gender marriage are not completely known, but society can not be perpetuated in genderless homes. God knows more than man. Let's listen to him.
R Young | 2:39 p.m. July 3, 2008
I can't believe that we have to constanly address or defend our concept of
marriage in this country. Has the world all gone crazy? Are we all so stupid
that all of our common sense has completely disappeared? The animals have more
common sense than we humans do. Two people of the same gender can't have a
baby. They can only pretend to have a family. This is about as unatural a union
as there can possibly be. A marriage is between a man and a woman anything else
is just play acting.
to sberg | 2:51 p.m. July 3, 2008
I'm sad about all this pridefulness. When prideful, we learn nothing. What
a waste! To answer sberg: You wonder what Christ would do? I don't. He
already did it by inspiring His ancient apostle to speak out against
homosexuality-- because He loves us. He inspired His living prophet to speak out
today-- because He loves us. My baby grandson wants to stand on tables, but my
daughter loves him enough to safeguard him from such danger. God is precisely
the same, and He has all the facts! "Why would anyone with an ounce of
compassion fight against this?" Because, sberg, They love us enough to
safeguard us from danger; that's why. NO ONE has more compassion than
Christ, and Christ says no.
Jesus said nothing at all | 5:30 p.m. July 3, 2008
...about homosexuality as far as we know.
Beyond that, such claims (including what 'Christ inspired his apostles') are nothing but personal faith and religion and belief. You are free to have all those influence how you not only act personally, but also to inform your activism and how you vote. They are fine for Sunday School and sermons.
But the government should not be passing any laws based on "Christ says so" if you expect it to pass constitutional muster. It shouldn't and it won't. And it's not much of an argument in pluralistic public discussion, except for how you, the individual, personally believe. I, for one, and many others, recognize that "Christ" is not a person of history, but a declaration of faith tied to the Jewish life and Roman death of Jesus of Nazareth. As such, virtually nothing he is claimed to have said or inspired in the Bible means anything at all in a discussion of the legal issues involved.
Beyond that, such claims (including what 'Christ inspired his apostles') are nothing but personal faith and religion and belief. You are free to have all those influence how you not only act personally, but also to inform your activism and how you vote. They are fine for Sunday School and sermons.
But the government should not be passing any laws based on "Christ says so" if you expect it to pass constitutional muster. It shouldn't and it won't. And it's not much of an argument in pluralistic public discussion, except for how you, the individual, personally believe. I, for one, and many others, recognize that "Christ" is not a person of history, but a declaration of faith tied to the Jewish life and Roman death of Jesus of Nazareth. As such, virtually nothing he is claimed to have said or inspired in the Bible means anything at all in a discussion of the legal issues involved.
ladyblueyes | 6:05 p.m. July 3, 2008
When I first hear about the legislature overturning the voters will, I was
saddened and wondered how we could get our will back. I prayed.
Then I heard that we would get to vote again. I was thrilled. And I prayed.
I wondered if the LDS Church would tell us how to vote. I had already determined to vote my conscience - which is that MARRIAGE IS BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN ONLY. I kept praying that the Church would come out and back me up on that.
I love my gay sister and my transgender brother. I do NOT love their lifestyle, nor do I agree with it. Nor do the majority of people we know.
Why should we cater to the minority when they are fighting to take away our life as we know it and to replace it with the life they want us to know? Why should I accept a perverted way of life when I know in my heart and soul that it is wrong? Why should I let anyone dictate to me what I should believe?
Then I heard that we would get to vote again. I was thrilled. And I prayed.
I wondered if the LDS Church would tell us how to vote. I had already determined to vote my conscience - which is that MARRIAGE IS BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN ONLY. I kept praying that the Church would come out and back me up on that.
I love my gay sister and my transgender brother. I do NOT love their lifestyle, nor do I agree with it. Nor do the majority of people we know.
Why should we cater to the minority when they are fighting to take away our life as we know it and to replace it with the life they want us to know? Why should I accept a perverted way of life when I know in my heart and soul that it is wrong? Why should I let anyone dictate to me what I should believe?
ladyblueyes | 6:11 p.m. July 3, 2008
I have worked for and with gay people. Their home life is THEIR home life, like
mine is MINE.
I don't approve of their life choices - I don't agree that they should have 'marriage' since from the beginning of time it has always been MAN and WOMAN. Just because gays choose their lifestyle does not mean that I have to accept their choice as MY choice.
Again, when did minorities decide the fate or the choice of the majority? Hitler did the same, Bonapart, Castro ... and I'm sure I'm missing some of the other catastrophes there.
I'm very sorry for Mr. Romney - if this had not come up, I think he would have been a good running mate for Senator McCain.
Californians UNITE!! Marriage is between a MAN AND A WOMAN and there should be NO EXCEPTIONS.
Let them have their 'civil unions' or whatever else they want to call it - but NO GAY MARRIAGE. It's a travesty.
And no, I'm not 'homophobic' ... Just very convinced that to let go of traditional values would devestate the State as well as our United States.
I don't approve of their life choices - I don't agree that they should have 'marriage' since from the beginning of time it has always been MAN and WOMAN. Just because gays choose their lifestyle does not mean that I have to accept their choice as MY choice.
Again, when did minorities decide the fate or the choice of the majority? Hitler did the same, Bonapart, Castro ... and I'm sure I'm missing some of the other catastrophes there.
I'm very sorry for Mr. Romney - if this had not come up, I think he would have been a good running mate for Senator McCain.
Californians UNITE!! Marriage is between a MAN AND A WOMAN and there should be NO EXCEPTIONS.
Let them have their 'civil unions' or whatever else they want to call it - but NO GAY MARRIAGE. It's a travesty.
And no, I'm not 'homophobic' ... Just very convinced that to let go of traditional values would devestate the State as well as our United States.
ms. blueye's right..sorta...Huh? | 7:25 p.m. July 3, 2008
ladyblueyes is correct: just because someone else is gay and choses a gay
lifestyle does NOT meant that you also must be gay and live a gay lifestyle as
your own. But ...who ever said otherwise, ms. ladyblueyes?
Who, when and where, ever said you must accept their choice as your own choice? Who, when and where ever said that gays living as gays also decides the fate or the choice of the majority?
But continuing your line of thought, only more logically, who or what gives (or prevents?) the majority the right and power to control the rights and decIde the fate of a small minority? (The Constitution?)
Besides which, after gay marriages are finally legalized, why and how, with 95-97% of all marriages being of the "traditional values" heterosexual type, and only 3-5% or less same sex, are traditional values going to be "let go" and devastating? Traditional values cannot endure with a 95-97% majority??
Why not?
Who, when and where, ever said you must accept their choice as your own choice? Who, when and where ever said that gays living as gays also decides the fate or the choice of the majority?
But continuing your line of thought, only more logically, who or what gives (or prevents?) the majority the right and power to control the rights and decIde the fate of a small minority? (The Constitution?)
Besides which, after gay marriages are finally legalized, why and how, with 95-97% of all marriages being of the "traditional values" heterosexual type, and only 3-5% or less same sex, are traditional values going to be "let go" and devastating? Traditional values cannot endure with a 95-97% majority??
Why not?
ladyblueye's right..sorta...Huh? | 7:58 p.m. July 3, 2008
ladyblueyes is correct, sorta: ...just because someone else is gay and choses a
gay lifestyle, it does NOT meant that you also must be gay and live a gay
lifestyle as your own. But ...who ever said otherwise, ms. ladyblueyes?
Who, when and where, ever said you must become gay and accept their lifestyle choice as your own choice? Who, when and where, ever said that gays living as gays is equivalent to deciding the fate or the choice of the majority?
But continuing your line of thought, only more logically, who or what gives (or, rather, prevents?) the majority the right and power to control the rights and decIde the fate of a small minority? The Constitution, maybe?
Besides which, after gay marriages are finally legalized, why and how, with at least 95-97% of all marriages still being of the "traditional values" heterosexual type, and only 3-5% or less same sex, are traditional values going to be "let go" so devastatingly? Traditional values cannot endure with a 95-97% majority??
Why not?
Who, when and where, ever said you must become gay and accept their lifestyle choice as your own choice? Who, when and where, ever said that gays living as gays is equivalent to deciding the fate or the choice of the majority?
But continuing your line of thought, only more logically, who or what gives (or, rather, prevents?) the majority the right and power to control the rights and decIde the fate of a small minority? The Constitution, maybe?
Besides which, after gay marriages are finally legalized, why and how, with at least 95-97% of all marriages still being of the "traditional values" heterosexual type, and only 3-5% or less same sex, are traditional values going to be "let go" so devastatingly? Traditional values cannot endure with a 95-97% majority??
Why not?
tcdueck | 11:13 p.m. July 3, 2008
boiseguy:I feel sorry for you.
you are totally lost, the LDS Church in making a statement in regards to gay & Lesbian marriages.you
are the kind of people that demoralize this country.
your the kind that destroy every moral fabric God gave to us.you people shouldn,t even a voice,because you disgust me.Think about this,God created the earth & the heavens,he created man & women,NOT adam & Steve or Christine & Kim. Remember
this, one day you will give an account of what you did on this earth.You will get on your knees before Jesus Christ are lord & SAVIOR whether you beleive it or not, but you will.I am a LDS member of the church,all your disgsusting remarks & your thinking
comes from Satan,if that shocks you,well thats the road your taking & THATS what satan wants us to think.So before you go denoucing my church or any Christian church.you better think what road you are
taking. the statements you made are immoral & disgusting to me & to Jesus Christ.you totally disgust me in your attempt to destroy the Gospel of
Jesus Christ. Remember you will come face to face with are lord,than what will YOU say to him???
you are totally lost, the LDS Church in making a statement in regards to gay & Lesbian marriages.you
are the kind of people that demoralize this country.
your the kind that destroy every moral fabric God gave to us.you people shouldn,t even a voice,because you disgust me.Think about this,God created the earth & the heavens,he created man & women,NOT adam & Steve or Christine & Kim. Remember
this, one day you will give an account of what you did on this earth.You will get on your knees before Jesus Christ are lord & SAVIOR whether you beleive it or not, but you will.I am a LDS member of the church,all your disgsusting remarks & your thinking
comes from Satan,if that shocks you,well thats the road your taking & THATS what satan wants us to think.So before you go denoucing my church or any Christian church.you better think what road you are
taking. the statements you made are immoral & disgusting to me & to Jesus Christ.you totally disgust me in your attempt to destroy the Gospel of
Jesus Christ. Remember you will come face to face with are lord,than what will YOU say to him???
The Fisher | 6:07 p.m. July 5, 2008
It seems that many are forgetting one little thing on this issue. It is NOT a
sin to be gay, rather, the SIN occurs in having a SEXUAL relationship with
someone of the same sex. Read Leviticus chapter 20 King James version of the
bible for the Lords own words on this subject. They are VERY CLEAR on his views.
EVERY CHRISTIAN faith needs to unite on this issue, first California, then
other states will follow. I am proud to be LDS and have a firm testimony of the
teachings of the church. We do not condemn others, but condemn the SIN. Each
person has their free agency, even within the church. Leaders advise, and
admonish, but NEVER DICTATE doctrine to any member. I would envite everyone to
go to www.mormon.org and click on "Basic Beliefs" to learn exactly
what the church teaches.
TO MEMBERS: Read the article in July's Ensign for insight. "Contention is not of me..."
I do not live in California, but I support ANY measure that will define Marriage as "a union between a man and a woman" Remember our great nation was founded on these words "in GOD We Trust"
TO MEMBERS: Read the article in July's Ensign for insight. "Contention is not of me..."
I do not live in California, but I support ANY measure that will define Marriage as "a union between a man and a woman" Remember our great nation was founded on these words "in GOD We Trust"
StephenSacco Australia | 7:50 p.m. July 5, 2008
We live in an age where "lowering the bar" has become an obsession.
As a former member once said to me, " I know that the church teaches truth,
but it's too high for me to live". Surely most of us have had feelings
or thoughts that on relection we have judged as wrong. The danger is when we
attempt to put into place laws that will give legitimacy that those thoughts or
feelings do not derserve. Why do the opponants of the Church's stand feel
that their voice is the only one that should be heard and that we should "
butt-out". Freedom of speech is not defined by the popularity of what is
said. People living in a democracy have a right to express their views, be they
moral or otherwise.
If you believe it is sin, then | 10:15 p.m. July 5, 2008
...DON'T do it.
But if you think that government can legislate because either you or they believe something is "sin", it's not going to pass constitutional muster. Not all religious people, Christian or otherwise, consider it to be sin. And the views of your particular religious persuasion, thank god, cannot be legislated as law.
The texts of the Christian canon, plus 2 millenia of Christian history, tell us that EVERY Christian, and every Christian faith is NOT going to unite on this or almost any other issue, sorry. Christianity, since before Paul, has NEVER EVER been a "unity of the faith" regardless of what it might say in the NT.
Just because YOU believe it is sin, doesn't make it sin. Even if your Bible or other scriptures pronounces it sin, it ain't necessarily so. And the law cannot and should not recognize any particular religious doctrine as either a legislative means or end.
"In God we trust" is not in the Constitution, sorry.
Thank god, again, for the Constitution.
But if you think that government can legislate because either you or they believe something is "sin", it's not going to pass constitutional muster. Not all religious people, Christian or otherwise, consider it to be sin. And the views of your particular religious persuasion, thank god, cannot be legislated as law.
The texts of the Christian canon, plus 2 millenia of Christian history, tell us that EVERY Christian, and every Christian faith is NOT going to unite on this or almost any other issue, sorry. Christianity, since before Paul, has NEVER EVER been a "unity of the faith" regardless of what it might say in the NT.
Just because YOU believe it is sin, doesn't make it sin. Even if your Bible or other scriptures pronounces it sin, it ain't necessarily so. And the law cannot and should not recognize any particular religious doctrine as either a legislative means or end.
"In God we trust" is not in the Constitution, sorry.
Thank god, again, for the Constitution.
Amber | 3:59 a.m. July 6, 2008
I'd like to take you back 32 years ago. I was 20 years old then and there
was a 10-year old boy in our ward of whom everybody could see by the way he
acted that he was gay. His parents, brothers and sisters were good LDS and they
didn't want to see it. "It will change, he's still very
young".
Well, it didn't change and this young man was excommunicated. He believed that the Church was true and he missed his friends in Church, his family (only his mother never turned her head away from him). He was very lonely and found a new friend in drugs.
Ten years ago he stopped using drugs, but it was already too late. He died three years ago.
That's what can happen when people judge about other people.
Yes, this young man had a relationship, like everybody-else he needed a companion, he needed somebody who he could love and who he loved. That's no sin.
And if the Church teaches that it is, then I'm glad I'm no longer a member.
Well, it didn't change and this young man was excommunicated. He believed that the Church was true and he missed his friends in Church, his family (only his mother never turned her head away from him). He was very lonely and found a new friend in drugs.
Ten years ago he stopped using drugs, but it was already too late. He died three years ago.
That's what can happen when people judge about other people.
Yes, this young man had a relationship, like everybody-else he needed a companion, he needed somebody who he could love and who he loved. That's no sin.
And if the Church teaches that it is, then I'm glad I'm no longer a member.
DWmFrancis | 11:31 p.m. July 6, 2008
The word marriage has a broadly accepted meaning. Changing it so that a group
that does not fit the definition can get the financial and social benefits of
the group that does is like changing your personal meaning of
"smoking" to "non-smoking" so you can get lower health
insurance rates. It's deceptive and dishonest.
Rather than change the definition of a word that has been widely and commonly understood across hundreds of cultures for thousands of years, perhaps a new word for the union of people of the same sex and new rules for what their "rights" are is what's needed. (garriage?)
The people of the State of California can pass all the laws they want redefining "marriage". They can also decide to rename zebras as horses, or cats as cougars. It wouldn't change the core nature of their being. It would increase confusion and misunderstanding.
Governments and churches share a common goal; to protect and defend the safety, liberty and property of their members thru education, setting limits and enforcing laws. Don't put them at odds with one another by confusing the meaning of a word.
Rather than change the definition of a word that has been widely and commonly understood across hundreds of cultures for thousands of years, perhaps a new word for the union of people of the same sex and new rules for what their "rights" are is what's needed. (garriage?)
The people of the State of California can pass all the laws they want redefining "marriage". They can also decide to rename zebras as horses, or cats as cougars. It wouldn't change the core nature of their being. It would increase confusion and misunderstanding.
Governments and churches share a common goal; to protect and defend the safety, liberty and property of their members thru education, setting limits and enforcing laws. Don't put them at odds with one another by confusing the meaning of a word.
DWmFrancis | 12:22 a.m. July 7, 2008
Amber;
You are right. It's not a sin to want a mutual, loving relationship. What is a wrong is to have sexual relations with someone other than your spouse. Hundreds of thousands of widowed, divorced or otherwise unmarried single teenage and adult Latter-Day Saints have to deal with that every day.
Membership in any organization has terms and conditions. If your friend wanted to be LDS he had a choice to live the Word of Wisdom and Law of Chastity or not. Please don't confuse and blame the LDS Church for his not doing so.
The latest research shows that homosexuality is the result of environmental *and* genetic factors. Also, our genetic makeup is dynamic thruout our lifetimes. In other words; sexual orientation isn't simply inherited or static. (But our spiritual gender is.)
Did you also know that sexual attraction, drugs and nicotine produce the same self reinforcing effects in the brain? All impair the decision making abilities of the individual. Maybe God warned us about the use of those things for a reason.
Charity and the infinite, eternal atonement of Christ coupled with a firm personal commitment to endure the end can overcome or contain all human frailties.
You are right. It's not a sin to want a mutual, loving relationship. What is a wrong is to have sexual relations with someone other than your spouse. Hundreds of thousands of widowed, divorced or otherwise unmarried single teenage and adult Latter-Day Saints have to deal with that every day.
Membership in any organization has terms and conditions. If your friend wanted to be LDS he had a choice to live the Word of Wisdom and Law of Chastity or not. Please don't confuse and blame the LDS Church for his not doing so.
The latest research shows that homosexuality is the result of environmental *and* genetic factors. Also, our genetic makeup is dynamic thruout our lifetimes. In other words; sexual orientation isn't simply inherited or static. (But our spiritual gender is.)
Did you also know that sexual attraction, drugs and nicotine produce the same self reinforcing effects in the brain? All impair the decision making abilities of the individual. Maybe God warned us about the use of those things for a reason.
Charity and the infinite, eternal atonement of Christ coupled with a firm personal commitment to endure the end can overcome or contain all human frailties.
SC GUY | 3:34 p.m. July 7, 2008
boiseguy: YOU'RE A MORAN! If you don't know what your talking about,
keep your mouth shut and go to another site were people want to listen to your
anti-Mormon talk. We don't! I support everything the leaders of this church
do, b/c its coming from the lord. To reject their words, is the same as
rejecting the lords himself. It's their obligation to make a statment on
this matter to the members of this church and the people of this country that
was founded on family values and church teaching. We most not allow God to be
taken out topics voted on and discussed in this country. Not just Mormons, but
all faiths and religions. We need to stand up and and let our voices be heard.
God Bless America! We need it....
careful, SC GUY! | 8:32 p.m. July 7, 2008
If you want to follow ALL the counsel, please don't call people ugly names.
It's embarrassing to those who support your position on the issue, because
we can't condone your cruel words and dismissive attitude! Such is NOT
HELPFUL. We've been admonished to speak gently, politely, and not to hide
behind the anonymity of the Internet. The counsel given includes:
� 'a soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous
words stir up anger' (Proverbs 15:1). It almost never helps to argue or
contend with others... or to become defensive or belligerent... Remember to
respect others and their opinions.
Be friendly and polite, even if you comment anonymously... What helps the most are thoughtful and measured voices... Try that, if you want to make a difference for good.
Be friendly and polite, even if you comment anonymously... What helps the most are thoughtful and measured voices... Try that, if you want to make a difference for good.
Scouts Honor | 9:35 p.m. July 7, 2008
We pledge and honor a nations flag under God.
I know that the will of God will be fulfilled for we are citizens of a promised land that God gave us. His laws and commandments will not be forsaken. If we want a better world we should start by raising moral children who are our future leaders. This shall be done with moral parents such as a man and a woman just like the begining of time.
Gay people who pretend to be what they are not, should seek professional help, because God does not make mistakes.
I know that the will of God will be fulfilled for we are citizens of a promised land that God gave us. His laws and commandments will not be forsaken. If we want a better world we should start by raising moral children who are our future leaders. This shall be done with moral parents such as a man and a woman just like the begining of time.
Gay people who pretend to be what they are not, should seek professional help, because God does not make mistakes.
Christ said nothing? | 1:35 p.m. July 8, 2008
Christ said nothing about homosexuality? You're mistaken. Read Romans 1. He
spoke through His apostle. You cite no "authorities" for your
opinions, and reject Supreme Authority. Yikes. God will never be completely out
of the equation, no matter how you try. Facets of our lives overlap because
Americans have religious convictions. The First Amendment promises freedom OF,
not freedom FROM, religion. It never intended to thwart God or let
men�s opinions negate eternal law. The Constitution
supports a nation UNDER GOD, whose law is more
�supreme� than any court! We
don't force religion down throats; but we don't want opposing beliefs
shoved down our throats! Neither do we want the foundations of America eroded
through devious circumventing of �of the people, by the
people, for the people�. Marriage law affects us all, and
California upheld marriage through legal channels. The arrogant court acted
outside the law, and that should scare people to death, because a terrible
precedent was set, and our freedom is endangered by it.
Samuel Barney | 5:21 p.m. July 8, 2008
I want to thank Carole Knowles and Mike Thompson for standing up and OWNING
their statements by giving their full names. I find it interesting that no one
opposing their views is courageous enough to tell us who they are.
I am a resident of Alaska but I have family in CA. and the gay issue aside, the Supreme Court has no right to overturn the voice of the people.
I know that my family will strongly support this amendment.
I am a resident of Alaska but I have family in CA. and the gay issue aside, the Supreme Court has no right to overturn the voice of the people.
I know that my family will strongly support this amendment.
Arnie | 7:26 p.m. July 8, 2008
Here we go again.
I worked up a sweat in 2000, time to get a new pair of walking shoes.
I worked up a sweat in 2000, time to get a new pair of walking shoes.
Another LDS Kiwi | 3:02 p.m. July 9, 2008
As an active LDS YSA i take an interest in what happens in the world. In NZ, my
grandmother recalls ever since sundays became a working day, things gradually
went downhill. I have observed that ever since Prostitution and gay marriages
were legalised the state of the country has become even worse!
Economy,society,nature...all are in turmoil! The world is snowballing BIG time
and people need to open their eyes and ask why it's happening. We ( the
church members ) do not make the rules here. We obey the commandments of God and
do so because that is what makes us happy and brings us into Gods rest.Gods way
is the ONLY way to eternal happiness. Kia Kaha latter day saints, = Stand
Strong. We don't need to apologise to anybody, ANYBODY for standing up for
what we know to be Gods word, which is truth. A Reid. New Zealand
enpkg | 2:12 p.m. July 12, 2008
It all comes down to this. Are we going to follow the counsel of the prophet?
Pres. Monson is the mouthpiece for our faith. He is NOT the cornerstone.
Question that I'll ask is Who is on the Lord's side?
appalled | 10:02 p.m. July 12, 2008
wow. i've grown up in the LDS church....the past 30+ years. i've
grown disgusted with the appalling degree of "holier than thou,"
"moral superiority," "constant judging of others," that
I've seen consistently across it's membership. It's one thing to
have a testament in your heart of something, but the way Mormons have become
morality monsters, and so publicly thick-headed and condescending, is really an
embarrassment to the church. I dont believe this is a church Jesus is proud of
anymore. I'm not seeing christlike behavior, I'm seeing a bunch of
spiritually egomaniacal people who can't get off their high horse.
For me, this is the end of the road. I am formally resigning my membership this week. As for the LDS members I leave behind, I'll chose to "love the sinner, hate the sin."
For me, this is the end of the road. I am formally resigning my membership this week. As for the LDS members I leave behind, I'll chose to "love the sinner, hate the sin."
Cal2 | 12:07 p.m. July 16, 2008
Those who are proposing legalized same-sex marriage are lost souls promoting
their own agenda. They ignore the obligations of NATURE itself. They are so
selfishly engaged in self-gratification and perversion that the natural, lawful
ways for reproducing life insult them. And they want all the pleasure and all
the joys of a counterfeit union-- the ultimate dead-ended way of life -- not
even to create a posterity of their own. They also want to wreck every vessel
of decency in our civilization and create chaos rather than bliss for those who
still model their heterosexual behavior after the ways of God the Father who
said, "Be Fruitful and Multiply and replenish the Earth." These
people who choose to desecrate their bodies and pollute all institutions geared
to establish or maintain order-- providing for the most ideal nurturing of
children by a man and a woman-- will, even themselves, reap thorns and thistles
in the end. All of mankind will then live in the same pool of moral sewage
specially manufactured by Gay elements of society-- the one misguided minority
chosen to rule over the Majority in society (all the time calling it their civil
right to do so).
It's not about that. | 8:25 p.m. July 16, 2008
Dear appalled:
Yeah, I know some rude, "holier than thou" types too, you get them in every church (except maybe Buddhists-haven't met many of them lol), but if you believe in the teachings of the church -even if not the people- why would you leave it? Are you really going to brake your baptismal covenant and deny yourself the sacrament just because you don't like a few people? Try moving to an area on the mission front if you are having trouble with your ward. I loved the people I met in the areas where missionaries are most numerous, the spirit there was wonderful, the people were like family, and tho the areas were rough friends knew how to be True friends. I miss it but it is safer to raise my baby boy were I am now (no gangs at all). However we were all discussing the law & making good moral choices when voting, the prophet was telling us to do just that. If you think HE is being judgmental then I somehow doubt you have much of a testimony.
Yeah, I know some rude, "holier than thou" types too, you get them in every church (except maybe Buddhists-haven't met many of them lol), but if you believe in the teachings of the church -even if not the people- why would you leave it? Are you really going to brake your baptismal covenant and deny yourself the sacrament just because you don't like a few people? Try moving to an area on the mission front if you are having trouble with your ward. I loved the people I met in the areas where missionaries are most numerous, the spirit there was wonderful, the people were like family, and tho the areas were rough friends knew how to be True friends. I miss it but it is safer to raise my baby boy were I am now (no gangs at all). However we were all discussing the law & making good moral choices when voting, the prophet was telling us to do just that. If you think HE is being judgmental then I somehow doubt you have much of a testimony.
Richard | 12:11 p.m. July 23, 2008
If this is the case the LDS church should lose its tax exempt status at once.
Polyman | 12:39 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
"Let He who is without sin, cast the first stone"
God gave us a brain to think with and moral agency. We all have baggage and need to determne which train we want to put it on. Preserving marriage betwen a man and woman is essential to society.
God gave us a brain to think with and moral agency. We all have baggage and need to determne which train we want to put it on. Preserving marriage betwen a man and woman is essential to society.
amber | 12:49 p.m. Oct. 14, 2008
I agree with yes on measure 8. It protects the sanctity of marriage. It also
allows us not teach gay marriage in the schools to our children. Children in
another state that a similar measure had failed, have brought home gay
literature--in the very young grades. Please support measure 8. Vote Yes!! It
is so important for our society and our children!!
Scott | 8:34 p.m. Oct. 14, 2008
The idea of interfering in matters like marriage is to help others not LDS.
In the days of Abraham, Sodom and Gomorrah were considered evil. So men were sent to see if they would amend their ways. Of course they didn't and the rest is scriptural history.
To say nothing from the LDS Church about this issue of marriage may invite censure from the God in whom they believe. Secularists like to presume that their actions do not offend divine sensibilities. If the LDS Church believes otherwise, then to say nothing is an offense to their religious beliefs.
Who among the secularists will say with absolute authority that no divine sensibilities are offended? Can we rely upon them to tell us the absolute truth or just what they as mere mortals believe? It is much to say that no God exists--especially when we do not have all the information or the power to examine all the universe.
In the days of Abraham, Sodom and Gomorrah were considered evil. So men were sent to see if they would amend their ways. Of course they didn't and the rest is scriptural history.
To say nothing from the LDS Church about this issue of marriage may invite censure from the God in whom they believe. Secularists like to presume that their actions do not offend divine sensibilities. If the LDS Church believes otherwise, then to say nothing is an offense to their religious beliefs.
Who among the secularists will say with absolute authority that no divine sensibilities are offended? Can we rely upon them to tell us the absolute truth or just what they as mere mortals believe? It is much to say that no God exists--especially when we do not have all the information or the power to examine all the universe.
Joe | 4:35 p.m. Nov. 6, 2008
I have never had any reason in the past to discredit the Mormon religion.
However, now that you have taken a stance of hate against a group of people I
have changed my position. To have the audacity to proclame that you know what
the definition of marriage is amounts to arrogance. Your church needs to
start recognizing love and not hate. Please have the decency of recognizing
your hate of gay people. Don't hide behind your church. Until you rescind
your position on gay marriage I will work the rest of my life to discredit your
religion.
Scott/American | 6:29 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008
Shame on you !
Ernie Karafotias | 10:19 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008
All people of God are with you, Stand firm.
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