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LDS Church officials urge California members to support marriage amendment

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Charles | 4:37 p.m. June 23, 2008

To to Charles...In reading your post, these are really the only thought that came to mind...You can find it in Revelation 3:15-16,

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."

It's time to stand up and be accounted for, my friend. Compassion has nothing to do with voicing opinions against that which is evil.

Bones | 4:41 p.m. June 23, 2008

The church has every right in the world to stand up and support its teachings. Are we not allowed to believe that homosexual marriage is harmful to society? Last I checked the church has never forced its beliefs on anyone. It has its own set of teachings and requirements for membership and status, but beyond that it has never forced its will or beliefs on anyone that chooses not to believe the same thing. there is a difference between forcing your will on someone and being politically active. If the people of California want to allow gay marriage they have the right to do it and the church can and will do nothing to stop them. All the church is doing now is encouraging people to make what it believes to be the right decision. If anyone thinks that The LDS church should not be allowed to voice an opinion I would love to hear from them.

Bert | 4:39 p.m. June 23, 2008

This really IS nothing more than a plot from the divorce attorneys in California to drum up MORE business. Why should all the straight people get to be the only ones getting divorced? Let people get married/unionized/glued together, who cares?
I for one am NOT threatened in my LDS membership or testimony if those of an alternative lifestyle want to get married to each other. Let them knock themselves out, crawling over each other to get to the Clerk's Office. Jack the fees for licenses up, it's a HUGE source of revenue for the counties and cities. Besides, they really DO know how to dress!

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 4:43 p.m. June 23, 2008

"Once same-sex marriage becomes the law of the land, gay rights group openly admit that they will challenge in court the tax-exempt status of churches that refuse to perform same-sex marriages. "

I can back them on that. And I won't even need someone telling me to do it. :)

The tax-exempt status of churches goes back to a simpler time when they used that for social programs for the poorest and most needy. Today, churches emass great wealth that they lavish on their leaders personal lifestyles and use as politial PACs. It's time to pull the plug on funding the radical right.

Member voting in California | 4:43 p.m. June 23, 2008

How I vote only I will know. No-one in "authority" will be asking me. If they do I will politely tell them it is not something I will discuss. It will not be part of my tithing settlement interview, temple recommend interview, or any other meeting with my leaders.

I will not be required by any leaders to vote one way or the other. I will not be required to show whether I have donated to a particular cause or not. My Church leaders are stating our Church's position on this, a moral issue.

Our building used to be a polling place until several years ago. Not any longer. Perhaps because the Church wanted to separate Church and State?

To the blogger who stated the LDS Church still practices polygamy - it does not, and will excommunicate any member found practicing it. That it was a part of Church history - of course it was. That it was not practiced after 1890 is also part of Church history. That polygamous families stayed together after 1890 is also well known. What caring father would abandon women and children dependent on him?

Those that wanted polygamy broke away from the LDS Church.

Sandy | 4:44 p.m. June 23, 2008

Keep your church out of our government. Hopefully the Supreme Court will remove that ballot initiative before it even gets on the ballot. Civil rights should not be up for a popular vote.

To FreeThinker | 4:45 p.m. June 23, 2008

You are missing something important in your comment:
"Boy am I glad that I don't have to ask some old guy in Salt Lake City how I should think or vote in the one life that I have. I was walking down the street the other day in downtown SLC, and I could swear that I heard a majority of the people going....baa, baa."

Remember Noah, Elijah, Paul, John The Baptist, John The Beloved - just to name a few.

They have it right. "..in the last days...men shall be...without natural affection... (2 Tim).

I think Bill Cosby hit it on the head...
"How long can you tread water?"

Anonymous | 4:45 p.m. June 23, 2008

When the voice of the people choose evil over good then we had all better watch out because God will now do the talking. Hope you are listening! Watch and you will see how smart you are to defy God's laws!

Just Say No to Ignorance | 4:45 p.m. June 23, 2008

I am a California LDS member, but I will vote with my conscience AGAINST the amendment. Our leadership, while well-intentioned, is wrong on this issue. Although they are the Lord's representatives, they as men are not infallible. I urge other California members to follow the Spirit and exercise compassion and common sense at the polls. Please vote NO to intolerance.

MTM | 4:47 p.m. June 23, 2008

Why is the argument that churches should mind their own business? The fact is homosexual marriage is wrong and CAN NOT BE MADE RIGHT just because someone wants to justify their sin. What would be wrong is for any church to accept homosexual marriages.

San Diego LDS | 4:47 p.m. June 23, 2008

To all LDS readers - I know this won't make the Editor too pleased but: Those who will deride "us" because of what and how we believe, are those clearly depicted in the dream/vision Lehi and Nephi saw. I would suggest you ignore them - sorry Editor. You aren't going to change any of their opinions. To re-state what we are about, and why, in a letter to the Editor, may make you feel better, but that's all it will do. If so, OK. But understand it for what it is. Those who are opposed to the Lord's work have within them a spirit that you will not change, because they don't want it. I would suggest you spend your energy in a more productive manner - and find ways to write to the people of California and the legislators. Find out how you can help financially. That will make a difference - not trying to change the minds of those in the large and spacious building. Think about it.

Darrin | 4:47 p.m. June 23, 2008

I believe it is the duty of all religous groups to uphold the moral integrity of this country. You can call us bigots or gay haters or whatever. The right thing to do in to get involved. Here is a little scripture from the Book of Mormon. Mosiah chapter 29 verse 26. Now it is not common that the voice of the people desireth anything contrary to that which is right; but it is common for the lesser part of the people to desire that which is not right; therefore this shall ye observe and make it your lawï¿½to do your business by the voice of the people.

The voice of the people spoke in California already. The judges should have upheld the voice of the people the 1st time. It makes me laugh when some of you post how behind the time the LDS church is. I say hold on to morality as long as you can. I am glad they are as you say behind the world. And believe me they are not changing on this issue. So if they are 50 years behind the times now. In 50 years they will be 100 years behind the times.

Truth Finally Revealed | 4:47 p.m. June 23, 2008

Just so you all know, I'm an active LDS member, but I refuse to surrender my individuality to the Mormon Collective, and the church's recent statements on the California marriage issue concerns me greatly concerning my church's integrity regarding things they say and then do differently.

Out of one side of their mouth the LDS leaders adamantly states it does not get involved in politics (which any issue that goes for a referrendum vote still is, no matter how you cut it), and then out the other side they wave their influence around and take a one-sided political stand.

No matter how you look at it, justify it, or word it, it's still religion getting too involved in secular politics.

Funny thing though is this, 'Is the MormonChurch so concerned about how its people will vote that they have to 'tell' them how to vote and deal with the issue?' Now that's a very telling thing isn't it?

I'm offended that my church feels it has to treat me like a child and not let me make these decisions for myself, according to the dictates of my own conscious and relationship with God. To them I say, 'But Out!.'

New Yorker | 4:50 p.m. June 23, 2008

to bert:
how do you know who's kids believe gay marriage is okay. it is not and no amount of chiding from people like you will change anyone's opinion. boys marrying boys and girls marrying girls accomplishes what? creating families? i think not?

To: East Coast Active Member | 4:51 p.m. June 23, 2008

This from an active Californian member!

There will NOT be an organized anti-gay marriage campaign by the Church. The Church is urging members to support this amendment, but individual members will decide for themselves how to support (or oppose) this amendment. Individual members will decide whether or not to donate to either side. There are plenty of organizations (for and against) to choose from! Members can also decide not to vote at all! That's what agency is all about!

The Church is stating its position on a moral issue. Plain and simple. Accept or not as an individual member of the Church.

John | 4:52 p.m. June 23, 2008

What I personally understand to be the Church's position on homosexuality, based on scripture, Conference talks, Church publication, etc.: (this not an official statement of any kind) 1)Homosexual acts are a sin, based on revelation from God, including the Bible. 2)Attraction to the same sex is a temptation to sin, not a sin. No official statements on whether it is environmental or biological; temptations in general may be either or both. 3)People with homosexual attractions are welcome in the Church. People who commit sexual sin, either heterosexual or homosexual, may lose their membership.
The Church is not trying to persecute or oppress gay people any more then it is trying to persecute alcoholics by preaching against drinking alcohol. It sees a behavior that is both wrong according to God and dangerous to its participants and society; it would like to help people avoid or be rescued from this behavior by making it socially and legally less acceptable. The Church teaches that people have the freedom to choose, but the issue in California is not freedom of choice; the amendment would stop the government from legitimizing homosexual behavior, not make the behavior illegal. That said, God loves all people, regardless.

HWB | 4:58 p.m. June 23, 2008

None of the Church's business.
Let the gay bashing Mormons out of the woodwork. Remember, ove 13% of the population is gay. That includes YOU, your family, your Church leadership, your neighbors, everyone. Take a look around.

Area code 302 | 5:03 p.m. June 23, 2008

The Church absolutely has the right to take a stand. It does NOT have the right to have bishops solicit funds with the caveat "I'm not coming to you as your bishop" the way it did in the Proposition 22 campaign. (And my brother's bishop did that _in his office_.) That's called lying, and if I'd had that pitch I would have told the IRS the next day.

But that's almost beside the point. For the Church to simply make lots of noise about a political issue (no matter how moral) can make it look bad in the community - and among members. (See Amendment 2 in Colorado, which would have allowed landlords to not rent to gays among other things.)

And yes, I'm "active" LDS, married in the temple - at 31. Many, many members (including a few leaders) made my life hell for being single before that. Some suggested I was gay - I got that label from one entire elders' quorum when I was 28. Some even said I was a "lost cause" for not having "done my duty" by not being married by 25. Others said finding a wife was more important than finding a job.

P Conlon | 5:02 p.m. June 23, 2008

******* The LDS Church , and other Religous bodies have no choice. Once Same Sex Marriage becomes the norm, the next step will be for some to demand Reigous Weddings .

Some Church's will fold on this and MANY wiill not. Then the litigation starts and the activst's fully intend to do this. It is not a matter of either Equal Rights or Live and Let Live.

It is a matter of forcing the much larger society into accepting deviancy. To force the larger society and culture into compliance because of a tremendous subliminal urge to "Slap the prevailing Culture" in it's collective face.

To Tom Pain | 5:05 p.m. June 23, 2008

This isn't about politics Tom Pain. This is about morality. Homosexuality and all other perversions including pedophiles, adulterers, fornicators, etc. are destroying this nation. Apparently you don't care about your country. The Church is not acting as an individual, the Prophet represents 13 million people that WANT him to speak for them because they know he speaks for God. Compare that to your degenerate lifestyle and tell me which is better for society.

Bert | 5:05 p.m. June 23, 2008

To Dave in Midvale:

"We ask that you do all you can to support the proposed constitutional amendment by donating of your means and time to assure that marriage is legally defined as being between a man and a woman."

What else could this mean: "We ask...all you can to support the... amendment"?

Sounds pretty clear to me. There are hidden-message trigger-words there also. Temple recommend carrying members will recognize the message.

lakers | 5:06 p.m. June 23, 2008

Gay behavior is wrong!! If some of you so called mormons are in disagreement with the brethren on this, then you have already picked your side.

It is essential to liberty and our freedoms that these ungodly people do not force there sins upon us!! Stand up for what is right. Marriage is between a man and a woman. That is why they can have children.

Non of the gay responses on this comment spot say anything about this? Why? Why do you think gay people cannot reproduce? What do you think gay people and gay supporters?

Hate Speech | 5:07 p.m. June 23, 2008

Read the disposition of the preceeding posts and their stances on this issue. Which side is using a tone best described as "hate speech"? Hint: they are also foaming at the mouth.

Anonymous | 5:07 p.m. June 23, 2008

My concern for allowing gay marriage is the ability this will give homosexual couples to adopt children. I believe children have the right to be raised by a mother and a father if at all possible. What is in the BEST interest of the children needs to be considered.

Hilarious | 5:14 p.m. June 23, 2008

LDS church needs to minds its own business.

Common Sense | 5:16 p.m. June 23, 2008

I don't need the LDS Church to tell me that gay marriage is wrong. It's common sense people, wake up.

ediddy | 5:15 p.m. June 23, 2008

Idiots!!
Where did you get the notion that forcefully expressing an opinion, as an organization or otherwise, has anything at all to do with tax exempt status? It does not. Tax exempt status has to do with the operations of individuals to function as for profit entities. The LDS church has both for profit and not for profit divisions. Those that operate for profit pay taxes according to the governing tax code. Those not for profit are entitled, samr as any other entity, to voice any and all opinions political or otherwise, the samer as any other entity under the 1st amendment. The moral and political position of the church and its members has nix to do with tax exempt status. Get A Clue.

Is Man God? | 5:18 p.m. June 23, 2008

So if the laws made my man is considers God's law, maybe it might be a problem to allow same gender unions. So let's look to the law makers in the middle east, Europe, Asia ... ;)

So the problem is, I'm afraid what the prophets are doing about this is kindda an act of self opinions. I'm sure that if there were younger prophets in the 20s or 30s, they might think that this is really not that ok.

Because let's think about it, how does allowing same gender unions in the court of law compromise traditional marriages? (daniel.ebox@gmail.com, let me know) If you are not able to say that allowing same gender unions will cause straight people to have the desire to marry people of their same gender, then there is not grounds. Unless there is a more valid reasn.

daniel.ebox@gmail.com, let me know

To Mission... | 5:21 p.m. June 23, 2008

IS that you elder Casper? I knew you were gay and all but it is time to stop fighting against the truth. You are still loved, but that does not make being gay o.k. Gay behavior is wrong! It is that simple. You say you have urges that you were born with to be gay. Doesn't matter, put a little control on your urges. I was born with an urge to pee in public. That doesn't make it o.k. for me to do it now does it.

The reason gay people want to make what they do legal is so they can feel better about doing wrong things. But what you gay people need to realize is that you will not feel any better if you are allowed to get married because it is still wrong!! It is that SIMPLE!!! GAY IS WRONG

Tenderheart, aching | 5:23 p.m. June 23, 2008

If you don't believe the homosexual agenda takes freedom away from the rest of us you haven't been following the news:
Individuals who object to homosexuality are being convicted of "hate crimes." Pubic school children are being force-fed tolerance for "two-mother" or "two-father" families. (Which fly in the face of nature as even young children can see.) And photographers who refused to help celebrate a same-sex so-called "marriage" were fined for their beliefs. A pastor in Canada was told to renounce his beliefs.
Marriage means a melding of opposites, not a pairing of sameness, and lust isn't the same thing as love, and no matter how you twist them, two left shoes do not make a real pair!
(They've already changed the meaning of the word "gay" now they want to steal the word "marriage" too. What's wrong with calling what they're doing by the correct term: a civil union.)
Finally, since you don't know how very painfully and personally I've been hurt by the homosexual agenda, please don't try to tell me how I should feel about it or that I'm wicked for disagreeing with you.

re John | 5:26 p.m. June 23, 2008

So what choice does the LDS Church give Gay People? Marry a woman/man you can't fully be a spouse to, live a lie and end up in a mess, or be Alone and Loveless your whole life? No Thanks, that's not a choice, and yes, it is persecution and oppression whether you choose to acknowledge that or not.

John | 5:36 p.m. June 23, 2008

To members of the Church posting on this article: Please be polite. Please refrain from hate speech and misrepresenting the Church's doctrine. Gay marriage is wrong (in my humble opinion) and shouldn't be a legal right, but those who support it do have the right to civility and well-reasoned arguments. Otherwise, you encourage the misconception that the Church as an organization is homophobic and hateful, giving a black eye to its efforts and frankly embarrassing your fellow members. To others posting/reading posts: (the following is my opinion) read carefully the Proclamation on the Family. You'll see that the Church regards homosexual behavior as sin because it considers a family consisting of a husband, wife and children to be the best situation to raise emotionally, mentally and spiritually healthy children. The Church also works against premarital sex, infidelity, abuse, alcohol, drugs and divorce (it does permit divorce, but condemns both casual divorce and behaviors that lead to "justified divorce," like adultery) because they threaten this ideal incubator for humanity.

Lakers | 5:34 p.m. June 23, 2008

Gay people trying to make Gay behavior legal is only slightly better that murderers trying to make murder legal. it is also like Pedophiles trying to make their actions legal. its like theives trying to make theft legal. IT is also like heterosexuals making adultery legal IT IS WRONG!!!

to Wait:
As for the comments of why the church doesn't spend its time helping out the suffering because of natural disasters and political suppresion, the AIDS crisis starving children etc. These problems are directly related to gay behavior and the reasoning that people use to justify gay behavior. They do not understand some very basic concepts of right and wrong and the church has to teach them these very simple principles I.E. Gay relationships are wrong!!

Kevin | 5:39 p.m. June 23, 2008

The Mormon church has drawn it's line in the sand. So be it. I believe the IRS and the state of California should"do all you can" to ensure the Mormon religion pays it's fair share of taxes.

I can't wait | 5:41 p.m. June 23, 2008

to see all the active LDS people on this list who are complaining about the statement from the First Presidency to oppose the sustaining of them in Conference in October - that is IF YOU HAVE THE GUTS!!!!

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | 5:47 p.m. June 23, 2008

To Just Say No to Ignorance:

If you are a member of the LDS Church, I am guessing you have no strong testimony of the gospel. You obviously have no testimony of the role of a prophet. You have no testimomy of the true workings of the spirit and I pray you can develop one. You are wrong in your comments and you are an embarrassment to yourself, the rest of us just feel sorry for you.

Bigotry | 5:50 p.m. June 23, 2008

I don't usually read these things, but I had a little extra time at work today and I thought I might as well. I'm surprised by the amount of anger and hate that is being expressed in this forum. It's interesting that those who would accuse the LDS church of bigotry are doing it with so much hate and vile meant to belittle members of the church.

On a second note, I think that the church probably fully understands the tax implications of doing this. (Despite what many of you think). This is an issue central to the teachings of the church and is important enough to warrant a stand. To quote two verses in the bible "render unto Caesar that which is caesar's" "but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

You might not agree with their views but at least they are standing up for what they believe to be right.

paa | 5:54 p.m. June 23, 2008

The LDS church is not the one trying to impose its will on others, its the homosexual community which is trying to impose its will on the rest of our country. It's easy to predict where a ruling like this will lead: If Californians don't reject it, it will first spread to all states in the USA, through law suits, so that all states will be forced to accept this new definition of "marriage". Then, religious institutions, such as the LDS church, will then be forced to accept and perform them, or else they will be harassed with lawsuits and fines, for not letting homosexuals have their full "rights". We've seen this before, and it's like the old story about the "camel in the tent". This "progressive" PC crowd is very unforgiving and intolerant. They will try to force others to think as they do by accusing them of "hate speech" and "intolerance" if they don't. I don't have a problem giving homosexuals certain legal rights for financial benefits as "couples", but don't try to force everyone to accept new experimental definitions of the foundational institution of "marriage".

Tom in Houston | 5:54 p.m. June 23, 2008

Just curious, but if the LDS wanted to celebrate marriage between one man and one woman, shouldn't they change the name of their University so that it doesn't endorse Brigham Young? Wasn't he a polygamist?

A Few Facts, LDS answer this, | 5:56 p.m. June 23, 2008

1) There are over 600,000 voting age Mormons in CA, that makes up about 5% of the 12,000,000 who voted in the last major election cycle in California.

2)A stand against homosexuality as a sin has been a part of LDS doctrine as found in the Bible and taught as doctrine by LDS general authorities; The issue of Blacks holding the priesthood was never doctrine, was not established through scripture or advocated by Joseph Smith.

It was instituted as a result of racism by church officials later on; it is still unclear when this occurred. However, it is paramount to men not being allowed to wear shorts at some LDS schools today or a vague position against cremation by some LDS members to this day.

3) It is unlikely the IRS will intervene, other non-profit organizations such as the NAACP have influenced elections systematically in a much larger way and haven't been touched.

One Question I would like answered; if some members of the LDS church who post on this board claim that their Prophet recieves guidance from God on substantial issues, why stand against him on this issue? Aren't you basically calling your church untrue?

Oh gee, what a surprise. | 5:57 p.m. June 23, 2008

Why would the LDS church support equality? They never have. All white and male, all the time. Period.

to John at 4:52 | 5:59 p.m. June 23, 2008

I think your comment is the best expressed comment on the whole list of posts!
And I am the active LDS mother of a lesbian woman--one who has seen the damage her lifestyle has done to her children and to her. Since her comment to me on relationships when her daughter had a baby out of wedlock (then lived with another guy and is now married to still another for who knows how long) was "Oh, Mom, why worry. After all, nothing lasts forever."
Will she marry one of the numerous partners she's had over the years? I don't know. But given her track record on relationships, the chance of its success isn't good.
Once, when I told her I loved her, she replied, "But you don't think my way of life is right." I told her I didn't have to agree with her way of life to love her, but gays and their supporters don't understand that--they demand that we agree with them.
And by the way, California already had civil unions which gave gay couples the legal rights they say they want.
What they really want is to force society to accept their way of life as normal.

Ender2155 | 6:01 p.m. June 23, 2008

It's not that much of a surprise to find that the LDS church has made the statement re: the marriage ammendment, and so long as they are not forcing their members to vote for it, that is their right. What people DO need to realize, though, is that the definition of marriage changed long ago from a religious one to a legal one. Marriage is a LEGAL contract two people enter into now; you can say your vows all you want, but if you don't get a license from the gov. you're not married. So, since marriage really has nothing to do with religion anymore, I don't see why same-sex couples should be denied entry into this legal contract.

marcus | 6:07 p.m. June 23, 2008

Mormon Church involved in politics, outside of Utah no less.

my my

They must have more power than I thought. Or, they are scared their minions will catch a drift or wind of freedom and act accordingly. wonder which one it is?

LOL | 6:09 p.m. June 23, 2008

The LDS Church won't stand against torture or lies. Some values to replicate.

You will loss in California. This silly amendment won't pass. The majority of California favor gay marriages.

If you want dumb laws and a nanny government, this is America and you are free to move to Utah. I will wave as you leave.

Ken | 6:10 p.m. June 23, 2008

Here are some things people in CA (and elsewhere) can do to fight AGAINST the ban on gay marriage in November: 1. Donate money to a pro-gay-marriage, like EQUALITY CALIFORNIA; 2. Send a copy of the FP's letter to your local paper and/or radio station, and your non-LDS church leaders. 3. Attend a gay wedding - it's an eye-opening experience. I went to one in West Hollywood last Saturday. Lots of love and tears of happiness. 4. Go to your sacrament meeting, and when the bishop reads the letter, get up and leave the meeting. Maybe someone will get people in the meeting to start thinking for themselves.

jfblg | 6:11 p.m. June 23, 2008

VOR accuses the LDS Church of forcing it's views on marriage, yet I always find it interesting the same people that don't want churches to preach to them are the same ones that want to force their beliefs on church goers and believers. They always want to force their beliefs on the rest of us through the use of force, intimidation, or threat of the law to make people follow their beliefs, it is never voluntary with them. Sounds very hypocritical.

zoar | 6:17 p.m. June 23, 2008

I am surprised that we are even having this discussion. Since the dawn of civilization, marriage has always been between a man and a woman. At no point in time has any culture legally sanctioned gay marriage. Now our supposedly enlightened society thinks to change times and seasons. The very idea that this has been entertained is an indication that the winding up scenes are at our doors. We should consider seriously the words of the ancient prophets when they told their society that the foundation of the destruction of this people is beginning to be laid by the unrighteousness of your lawyers and your judges.

Stay out of Politics! | 6:28 p.m. June 23, 2008

Isnt it the LDS policy to stay out of State affairs??? If they get involved in this one it is only time before they get actively involved in anything else. Just one look at Utah can tell you that!!

anonymous | 6:31 p.m. June 23, 2008

The LDS Church has every right to declare where we stand on moral issues....this is NOT a political or "civil rights" issue it is a moral issue. The courts can declare all they want that homosexuality is OK but that doesn't make it any more OK than declaring the world flat would make it flat. You members who are openly defying the First Presidency are no better than the Israelites who worshipped a golden calf..only your idol is perversion and immorality under the guise of "tolerance and love."

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