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LDS Church officials urge California members to support marriage amendment
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Alex | 2:56 p.m. June 25, 2008
I will follow the counsel of the First Presidency regardless of what happens to
my reputation as a result. I would obey to my own hurt. I know whose work this
is, and I have always been blessed and protected in spite of short term fears
when I have stood with the Brethren and the scriptures.
En Hedu' Anna | 3:01 p.m. June 25, 2008
I actually find it quite refreshing that people on both sides of this issue are
so passionate in their interest. So much better than apathy. So much better
than letting others vote then whining about what is passed and defeated. The
more people actually participate in the political process. The more people work
to have the nation reflect what they truly believe is best for all, the stronger
our nation will be.
In my opinion, We The People have sat on our do-nothings for too long enjoying the ride provided by those who actually stick their necks out and do the work. Coming to a consensus takes spirited debate, hopefully courteous and respectful, and listening to understand. Come one, come all to the discussion. Our strength has always been in seeking the greater good from our many diverse walks and ways of life.
In my opinion, We The People have sat on our do-nothings for too long enjoying the ride provided by those who actually stick their necks out and do the work. Coming to a consensus takes spirited debate, hopefully courteous and respectful, and listening to understand. Come one, come all to the discussion. Our strength has always been in seeking the greater good from our many diverse walks and ways of life.
Comments continue below
Charles | 3:15 p.m. June 25, 2008
Ken, I'm not ashamed to have Christ as my shepherd; apparently you are. I
know you are your followers like to use the sheep reference as something
derogatory. Sorry to let you know that to me it is a huge compliment. So
thanks.
And for your reference.... John 10...
23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon�s porch.
24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father�s name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
And for your reference.... John 10...
23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon�s porch.
24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father�s name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Catherine | 4:56 p.m. June 25, 2008
I'm not commenting about all of the commenters here, I'm commenting
about the article itself:
So much for free agency. The approach of the Church on this matter is puzzling to me. A letter read in Sacrament meeting urging people to vote a certain way with a sidenote of "let your conscience guide you"? If that isn't a guilt trip, I don't know what is.
It turned my thoughts to the pre-existence. Hopefully God and Jesus didn't guilt me into choosing who to follow and just let me make up my own mind because they would trust that I would make a sound decision on my own. They more than likely allowed me to make my own decision and allowed others to make their own decision also- hence why some of us are here and others never will be. Free agency is the root of all of our beliefs as LDS people. We have a right to choose; along with that comes consequences- good or bad. But we all have a right to choose and that fundamental right shouldn't be taken away from someone else just because they want to choose differently.
So much for free agency. The approach of the Church on this matter is puzzling to me. A letter read in Sacrament meeting urging people to vote a certain way with a sidenote of "let your conscience guide you"? If that isn't a guilt trip, I don't know what is.
It turned my thoughts to the pre-existence. Hopefully God and Jesus didn't guilt me into choosing who to follow and just let me make up my own mind because they would trust that I would make a sound decision on my own. They more than likely allowed me to make my own decision and allowed others to make their own decision also- hence why some of us are here and others never will be. Free agency is the root of all of our beliefs as LDS people. We have a right to choose; along with that comes consequences- good or bad. But we all have a right to choose and that fundamental right shouldn't be taken away from someone else just because they want to choose differently.
Bill Knowlton | 4:59 p.m. June 25, 2008
For all of you IRS/tax law geniuses who are calling for the LDS Church's
tax exempt status be revoked for "meddling in politics," perhaps you
should read IRS Code section 501(c)(3). If you did, you'd realize that
tax-exempt organizations are restricted from endorsing political candidates. The
Code says nothing about restricting support or opposition to legislation,
amendments, etc.
Alex | 5:32 p.m. June 25, 2008
Catherine:
"Hopefully God and Jesus didn't guilt me into choosing who to follow and just let me make up my own mind because they would trust that I would make a sound decision on my own. They more than likely allowed me to make my own decision and allowed others to make their own decision also- hence why some of us are here and others never will be. "
Couldn't you then argue that the Father and Christ guilted you into accepting the plan of salvation, what with the commandments, consequences and all? Just a thought.
"Hopefully God and Jesus didn't guilt me into choosing who to follow and just let me make up my own mind because they would trust that I would make a sound decision on my own. They more than likely allowed me to make my own decision and allowed others to make their own decision also- hence why some of us are here and others never will be. "
Couldn't you then argue that the Father and Christ guilted you into accepting the plan of salvation, what with the commandments, consequences and all? Just a thought.
Charles | 6:00 p.m. June 25, 2008
Actually Alex it's a pretty simple concept that we are living by on this
planet if we want to return and live with God and Christ again; obedience to the
things that they ask us to do.
Obey or not, our choice, but the blessings for eternity rest upon the decisions we make here. There is not guilt involved, it's a matter of what we want in the afterlife.
It's actually love for what the Savior did for us that makes one want to be obedient. It's simple and joyful!
Obey or not, our choice, but the blessings for eternity rest upon the decisions we make here. There is not guilt involved, it's a matter of what we want in the afterlife.
It's actually love for what the Savior did for us that makes one want to be obedient. It's simple and joyful!
To My SLC: | 6:23 p.m. June 25, 2008
Sonia Johnson was excommunicated for repeatedly and vocally speaking out against
the church, and it's doctrines and policies, and for openly encouraging
other members to revolt against their leaders.
In the General Handbook of Instructions, this is defined as apostacy: "repeatedly act[ing] in clear, open and deliberate public opposition to the church or its leaders." Apostacy is grounds for excommunication, and her actions have not changed since.
She left the church long before she was officially excommunicated.
In the General Handbook of Instructions, this is defined as apostacy: "repeatedly act[ing] in clear, open and deliberate public opposition to the church or its leaders." Apostacy is grounds for excommunication, and her actions have not changed since.
She left the church long before she was officially excommunicated.
So what | 7:00 p.m. June 25, 2008
I don't think that the The First Presidency did anything wrong. Even though
they said what they did the members in Californa still have their free agency to
vote as they want to. I believe that everybody that thinks the Church did
something wrong would feel different if they were like a lot of other religions.
Which is that they change to fit the way society is. I think that more religions
and people should stand up for what they believe. And quit changing to make the
rest of the world happy by accepting thei immoral life styles.
Homosexual Posts Claim.... | 7:09 p.m. June 25, 2008
Several of these posts by pro-homosexuals claim that if they cannot legally
"marry" then us mean, 'ol heartless conservatives are banishing
them to a life of utter lonliness.
No offense meant, people, but that is a boldfaced lie.
To adopt your line of thinking ("no marriage equals utter lonliness and sorrow") would also mean that any non-homosexual man or woman who never marries is utterly doomed to sadness.
And that just ain't true.....
Sure, the pinnacle of human existence is found in marriage, but without it, ALL is lost? There can be no personal growth?, no personal satisfaction?, no friendship of any kind?, no personal victories? and I'll even be so bold as to ask, no love experienced of ANY kind? You can't love your family?, your friends?, the woman down the street or the lonely gentleman in the nursing home?
You're copping out by saying that "no marriage means only misery" and instead are trying to shift the responsibility of YOUR growth to those who don't agree with your ideas of morality.
Marriage WILL come for you (if you desire it) but in the LORD'S way and in the LORD'S time.
No offense meant, people, but that is a boldfaced lie.
To adopt your line of thinking ("no marriage equals utter lonliness and sorrow") would also mean that any non-homosexual man or woman who never marries is utterly doomed to sadness.
And that just ain't true.....
Sure, the pinnacle of human existence is found in marriage, but without it, ALL is lost? There can be no personal growth?, no personal satisfaction?, no friendship of any kind?, no personal victories? and I'll even be so bold as to ask, no love experienced of ANY kind? You can't love your family?, your friends?, the woman down the street or the lonely gentleman in the nursing home?
You're copping out by saying that "no marriage means only misery" and instead are trying to shift the responsibility of YOUR growth to those who don't agree with your ideas of morality.
Marriage WILL come for you (if you desire it) but in the LORD'S way and in the LORD'S time.
To True Christians Everywhere | 7:48 p.m. June 25, 2008
Stand strong, my brothers and siters, stand strong! Let us unite as Latter-day
Saints, Catholics, Baptists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Pentecostals, Seventh-day
Adventists, Evangelicals, Methodists and every other church who claims to
worship God the Father and His Only Begotten Son, our common Savior and Friend,
Jesus Christ.
Good IS good and evil IS evil and our God has assured us repeatedly that doing good will be rewarded and evil will result in the removal of promised blessings.
Let us attack false doctrine, foolish thinking and poor decisions while we show love and respect to our brothers and sisters who claim light to be darkness and darkness, light.
There is more that binds us as Christians than separates us so let us work together to serve our Master, the Lord.
The practicing of homosexuality is wrong and if you need reaffirming of that truth, ask your Heavenly Father for wisdom, for He will give "liberally and upbraideth not" (James 1: 5-6).
May God bless us all.
Good IS good and evil IS evil and our God has assured us repeatedly that doing good will be rewarded and evil will result in the removal of promised blessings.
Let us attack false doctrine, foolish thinking and poor decisions while we show love and respect to our brothers and sisters who claim light to be darkness and darkness, light.
There is more that binds us as Christians than separates us so let us work together to serve our Master, the Lord.
The practicing of homosexuality is wrong and if you need reaffirming of that truth, ask your Heavenly Father for wisdom, for He will give "liberally and upbraideth not" (James 1: 5-6).
May God bless us all.
Love | 8:08 p.m. June 25, 2008
�We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not
enough to make us love one another.� - Jonathan Swift
What say you all? How can we make religion something that leads to more love?
What say you all? How can we make religion something that leads to more love?
Charles | 8:27 p.m. June 25, 2008
to Love....there is a ton of love everywhere in the world. Hopefully you give
some and in also get some in return.
The more you give, the more you get in return. Simple concept.
However, don't confuse acceptance of homosexual behavior as a form of love because it is far from it. Bad behavior can be addressed while still loving the person. If you have children, you know the concept.
The more you give, the more you get in return. Simple concept.
However, don't confuse acceptance of homosexual behavior as a form of love because it is far from it. Bad behavior can be addressed while still loving the person. If you have children, you know the concept.
Anonymous | 8:32 p.m. June 25, 2008
inalienable rights means inalienable rights... if you are a republican in these
days, you are selfish. You expect the government, who you think should play as
little of a role as possible in our lives, to force people who don't agree
with your religious circumstances to live a life different/lesser than that of
your own.
selfish, greedy, and oil hungry. shame on you. back off and let people who want to get married, get married. We all deserve the same; so much for love one another and humanity in the word of christ, thank the god i don't believe in that I left that scene a long time ago.
I don't care what you believe regarding god or no god. If people want to get married, and it makes you uncomfortable, that is your intolerant problem, not theirs.
GO CALIFORNIA, YES TO TAXES, YES TO OBAMA AND YES TO A LIFE OF EQUALITY, says the middle class, male, white, heterosexual.
selfish, greedy, and oil hungry. shame on you. back off and let people who want to get married, get married. We all deserve the same; so much for love one another and humanity in the word of christ, thank the god i don't believe in that I left that scene a long time ago.
I don't care what you believe regarding god or no god. If people want to get married, and it makes you uncomfortable, that is your intolerant problem, not theirs.
GO CALIFORNIA, YES TO TAXES, YES TO OBAMA AND YES TO A LIFE OF EQUALITY, says the middle class, male, white, heterosexual.
Alex | 8:48 p.m. June 25, 2008
Charles:
"Obey or not, our choice, but the blessings for eternity rest upon the decisions we make here. There is not guilt involved, it's a matter of what we want in the afterlife.
It's actually love for what the Savior did for us that makes one want to be obedient. It's simple and joyful! "
You are preaching to the choir. I agree wholeheartedly. I was merely saying something absurd to make a point. It just seemed to me that Catherine was suggesting that the First Presidency action is against the principle of agency. I disagreed by arguing that by that standard, God and Christ could be said to be guilting everyone who came to the earth into the plan. That is obviously absurd for the reasons you gave. Best regards.
"Obey or not, our choice, but the blessings for eternity rest upon the decisions we make here. There is not guilt involved, it's a matter of what we want in the afterlife.
It's actually love for what the Savior did for us that makes one want to be obedient. It's simple and joyful! "
You are preaching to the choir. I agree wholeheartedly. I was merely saying something absurd to make a point. It just seemed to me that Catherine was suggesting that the First Presidency action is against the principle of agency. I disagreed by arguing that by that standard, God and Christ could be said to be guilting everyone who came to the earth into the plan. That is obviously absurd for the reasons you gave. Best regards.
John Lambert | 11:17 p.m. June 25, 2008
I always thought that the church still stood by its opposition to the ERA. I
am not aware of the church having ever retracted its opposition to that
proposal.
Attacks on the church for its position on same-gender marriage are nothing new. I was getting them 12 years ago. It is not the church that has changed its position on this issue. The only thing that amazes me is that "active" members of the church are up in arms about this.
This is the third statement by the church along these lines in less than four years. This is nothing new.
Attacks on the church for its position on same-gender marriage are nothing new. I was getting them 12 years ago. It is not the church that has changed its position on this issue. The only thing that amazes me is that "active" members of the church are up in arms about this.
This is the third statement by the church along these lines in less than four years. This is nothing new.
JW (anonymous 2) | 11:20 p.m. June 25, 2008
I am appalled by the conversation here. If you are truly god fearing people, and
you truly believe in the word of god as is transmitted through the bible and
BOM, then you would accept the decisions of others, who through law, are not
obligated to follow your doctrine, to be married as you are. The LDS church is
very wrong to intervene. This POLITICAL matter is separated from the LDS
teachings, this STATE is separated from this CHURCH. Stop forcing others to
believe your words, they are people too, humans, with a life to live their own.
I am embarrassed to have been both a member of the LDS church and from Utah, equality or tolerance is not a term well understood in the Utahn community.
These are sad days, and I am sad to have known so many of you who despise some that are PERFECTLY normal humans- I wish that a true humanistic perspective existed with in you.
I am embarrassed to have been both a member of the LDS church and from Utah, equality or tolerance is not a term well understood in the Utahn community.
These are sad days, and I am sad to have known so many of you who despise some that are PERFECTLY normal humans- I wish that a true humanistic perspective existed with in you.
guess what... | 4:31 a.m. June 26, 2008
The disdain is completely mutual, and quite common.
Many people don't like gays, and many people don't like Mormons.
Y'all don't like gays, and we don't like Mormons. I would never invite a Mormon into my home, or hire one to work for me, never. Likewise, I'm sure, Mormons feel about me.
So please stop feeling so superior, you are just as despised, if not more so.
Many people don't like gays, and many people don't like Mormons.
Y'all don't like gays, and we don't like Mormons. I would never invite a Mormon into my home, or hire one to work for me, never. Likewise, I'm sure, Mormons feel about me.
So please stop feeling so superior, you are just as despised, if not more so.
Cherilyn Bacon Eagar | 8:47 a.m. June 26, 2008
This is an excellent practical explanation of the havoc SSM will bring (in 3
parts):
"Next."
"Good morning. We want to apply for a marriage license."
"Names?"
"Tim and Jim Jones."
"Jones? Are you related? I see a resemblance."
"Yes, we're brothers."
"Brothers? You can't get married."
"Why not? Aren't you giving marriage licenses to same gender couples?"
"Yes, thousands. But we haven't had any siblings . That's incest!"
"Incest?" No, we are not gay."
"Not gay? Then why do you want to get married?"
"For the financial benefits, of course. And we do love each other.
Besides, we don't have any other prospects."
"But we're issuing marriage licenses to gay and lesbian couples who've been denied equal protection under the law. If you are not gay, you can get married to a woman."
"Wait a minute. A gay man has the same right to marry a woman as I have. But just because I'm straight doesn't mean I want to marry a woman. I want to marry Jim."
"And I want to marry Tim, Are you going to discriminate against us just because we are not gay?"
"All right, all right. I'll give you your license. Next."
"Next."
"Good morning. We want to apply for a marriage license."
"Names?"
"Tim and Jim Jones."
"Jones? Are you related? I see a resemblance."
"Yes, we're brothers."
"Brothers? You can't get married."
"Why not? Aren't you giving marriage licenses to same gender couples?"
"Yes, thousands. But we haven't had any siblings . That's incest!"
"Incest?" No, we are not gay."
"Not gay? Then why do you want to get married?"
"For the financial benefits, of course. And we do love each other.
Besides, we don't have any other prospects."
"But we're issuing marriage licenses to gay and lesbian couples who've been denied equal protection under the law. If you are not gay, you can get married to a woman."
"Wait a minute. A gay man has the same right to marry a woman as I have. But just because I'm straight doesn't mean I want to marry a woman. I want to marry Jim."
"And I want to marry Tim, Are you going to discriminate against us just because we are not gay?"
"All right, all right. I'll give you your license. Next."
Alex | 9:47 a.m. June 26, 2008
Cherilyn Bacon Eagar:
I couldn't have said it better myself.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Frank | 10:26 a.m. June 26, 2008
I love being told not to interfere in others lifes or express my convictions by
people who are telling me how to live my life by expressing their convictions.
I think we all deserve each other.
Its about choice | 12:25 p.m. June 26, 2008
This is not about the fear of gays marrying in the temples. This is totally
about choosing to uphold the scriptures and the prophets who have taught that
homosexuality is a sin. Unless God has revealed new revelation to the contrary,
that law still stands no matter what uninspired men think. Gay marriage may
come to pass but the LDS Church wants to go on record before the courts of
heaven that they opposed it. It is a matter of choice and always has been.
Consequences always follow choices. That is what comes when you have free
agency. The war is still going on and at this time in history we have been
asked by the Lord through his prophet to choose which side we will be on despite
the outcome. This is not about Non-Mormons or gays because this proclamation is
not addressed to them. It is addressed to the LDS members in California.
Re: Its about choice | 1:41 p.m. June 26, 2008
I couldn't have said it any better. We're not told to hate those that
are different from us, the way one or two churches are. We're taught to
love them. But that doesn't mean we have to support their choices when
those choices go against the teachings of the Lord.
Like John Lambert said, this is hardly the first time the LDS church has taken such a stand. In fact, this same message is coming with increasing frequency. That obviously means that this is an important issue, and that we must remain valiant to the revelations the Lord has given us, whether it's popular or not.
What is popular on Earth is NOT going to be popular in Heaven. This has nothing to do with bigotry or hatred, it has to do with standing up for the teachings of the Lord, and following Him regardless of the physical outcome. Whether this law passes or fails doesn't matter. What does matter is whether we will accept what the world tells us is right, or what our Father in Heaven tells us is right.
Like John Lambert said, this is hardly the first time the LDS church has taken such a stand. In fact, this same message is coming with increasing frequency. That obviously means that this is an important issue, and that we must remain valiant to the revelations the Lord has given us, whether it's popular or not.
What is popular on Earth is NOT going to be popular in Heaven. This has nothing to do with bigotry or hatred, it has to do with standing up for the teachings of the Lord, and following Him regardless of the physical outcome. Whether this law passes or fails doesn't matter. What does matter is whether we will accept what the world tells us is right, or what our Father in Heaven tells us is right.
erm, people | 2:16 p.m. June 26, 2008
Would everyone please refrain from posting the same comment to both discussion
threads on this topic? I'm interested and reading all of this, but several
have started posting everything they're saying to both.
Alex | 2:22 p.m. June 26, 2008
To "Re: Its about choice":
Thank you for your words. It is time for us to stand with the Lord regardless of the cost to us.
Thank you for your words. It is time for us to stand with the Lord regardless of the cost to us.
To: Alex | 3:02 p.m. June 26, 2008
"Thank you for your words. It is time for us to stand with the Lord
regardless of the cost to us."
Thank you, too. I greatly appreciated your comment at the top of this page, about being blessed and protected for siding with the Brethren, regardless of short term fears. It's very true, and it's certainly not just a myth that when you're following the commandments and heeding the counsel of the Brethren, your life gets easier in many ways, both large and small. And regardless of the outcome of this, we need to show the Lord that we're wiling to obey His counsel and stand up for Him and His teachings. Thank you again for your kind words. =)
Thank you, too. I greatly appreciated your comment at the top of this page, about being blessed and protected for siding with the Brethren, regardless of short term fears. It's very true, and it's certainly not just a myth that when you're following the commandments and heeding the counsel of the Brethren, your life gets easier in many ways, both large and small. And regardless of the outcome of this, we need to show the Lord that we're wiling to obey His counsel and stand up for Him and His teachings. Thank you again for your kind words. =)
To: Cherilyn Bacon Eagar | 8:47 | 4:10 p.m. June 26, 2008
Funny, "traditional marriages" described in the Bible had close
relatives marrying each other all the time.
Arthur | 5:24 p.m. June 26, 2008
And in South America its not uncommon to date or kiss your immediate cousins.
In some countries many first dates occur with close relatives. United States is
one of only a handfull of countries that getts the ickies when close relatives
are mentioned, so I'm not too surprised that the isrealites didnt believe
their relatives had cooties.
John Lambert | 11:17 p.m. June 26, 2008
I found the comment by someone who seems to self designate as "gay"
interesting.
I would not allow people to practice homosexuality in my home. Howeer I would have no problem having a homosexual stop by for a visit. I quite probably taught some homosexuals in their homes on my mission, although no one who openly told us that this was an issue.
If I ran a business I would not even ask people their sexual orientation in the highering process, let alone refuse to higher them based on it.
I still do not think that the government should give proactive public policy approval to homosexuality, nor do I think public schools should try to teach seven year olds than homosexuality is ok. However I would even higher someone who spends most of their time off work trying to change the law on this matter if they could get the job done.
I would not allow people to practice homosexuality in my home. Howeer I would have no problem having a homosexual stop by for a visit. I quite probably taught some homosexuals in their homes on my mission, although no one who openly told us that this was an issue.
If I ran a business I would not even ask people their sexual orientation in the highering process, let alone refuse to higher them based on it.
I still do not think that the government should give proactive public policy approval to homosexuality, nor do I think public schools should try to teach seven year olds than homosexuality is ok. However I would even higher someone who spends most of their time off work trying to change the law on this matter if they could get the job done.
Harvard Argument | 1:04 a.m. June 27, 2008
If universities began to award Bachelor degrees to students that attend only one
semester, that would impact the validity of the degree I earned through 4 years
of study and hard work. SSM would have a similar detriment on traditional
marriage. Changing the moral fabric of society will impact everyone.
Homosexual relations don't perpetuate life, they destroy it. Without both
a mother & father, homosexuals wouldn't exist. A homosexual male that
believes he can take on the role of mother doesn't understand his own
identity. Those who fight against God, don't know who God is. "He
that saith I know Him, and doeth not His will is a liar."
To Harvard | 8:15 a.m. June 27, 2008
"Without both a mother & father, homosexuals wouldn't
exist."
No one is trying to get rid of families. That is a fallacy in your thinking. We love families and are not trying to change yours. We just want our families to be recognized. There are all types of families - not all are the mother-father type. Some are mother only, some are grandparents, some are couples without children. This is another type. Most gay couples will NOT have children. Please do not think or promote that we are trying to stop others from marrying and having great kids.
PS Your "degree" has already been cheapened by the likes of Britany Spears quickie, divorce, abandonment, etc.
No one is trying to get rid of families. That is a fallacy in your thinking. We love families and are not trying to change yours. We just want our families to be recognized. There are all types of families - not all are the mother-father type. Some are mother only, some are grandparents, some are couples without children. This is another type. Most gay couples will NOT have children. Please do not think or promote that we are trying to stop others from marrying and having great kids.
PS Your "degree" has already been cheapened by the likes of Britany Spears quickie, divorce, abandonment, etc.
"A peculiar people" | 9:48 a.m. June 27, 2008
Those of us who prefer that Mormonism be marginalized can only welcome the
Church's ridiculous stand on homosexuality. THe LDS will continue to
attract fringe converts, angry homophobes and other bigots. Just when you
thought Mormons would be accepted in the mainstream, your 80 year old leader
makes LDS seem like a relic of the past. Good work, keep it up.
The Golden Rule | 11:36 a.m. June 27, 2008
Let's follow the Golden Rule when it comes to our LDS friends and
neighbors.
Do unto them as they would do unto gays and lesbians.
Let's vote to restrict the freedoms of Mormons. Let's vote to restrict the number of children they can have. And the amount of money they can give to the LDS church. And let's vote to eliminate their tax-exempt status. And let's vote to restrict the countries and states into which they can send missionaries. And let's vote to annul all their marriages because they are ALL tainted by the spiritual polygamy that they practice in their temples. And let's vote for laws requiring the LDS Church to pay reparations to all the descendants of all the people they have baptized "for the dead".
I think this feels right: treat all Mormons with the same legislative regard that they are treating gays and lesbians! The Golden Rule at work!
Do unto them as they would do unto gays and lesbians.
Let's vote to restrict the freedoms of Mormons. Let's vote to restrict the number of children they can have. And the amount of money they can give to the LDS church. And let's vote to eliminate their tax-exempt status. And let's vote to restrict the countries and states into which they can send missionaries. And let's vote to annul all their marriages because they are ALL tainted by the spiritual polygamy that they practice in their temples. And let's vote for laws requiring the LDS Church to pay reparations to all the descendants of all the people they have baptized "for the dead".
I think this feels right: treat all Mormons with the same legislative regard that they are treating gays and lesbians! The Golden Rule at work!
To Golden Rule | 3:51 p.m. June 27, 2008
You are getting your wish and have successfully revealed the true intention of
the gay rights movement - to limit the freedom of others and to criminalize any
speech or action they don't like.
=======
Associated Press
Thursday, March 1, 2007
SANTA ROSA, Calif. � When a few classmates razzed Rebekah Rice about her Mormon upbringing with questions such as, "Do you have 10 moms?" she shot back: "That's so gay."
Those three words landed the high school freshman in the principal's office and resulted in a lawsuit that raises this question: When do playground insults used every day all over America cross the line into hate speech that must be stamped out?
Rice's parents, Elden and Katherine Rice, also claim the public high school employed a double-standard because, they say, administrators never sought to shield Rebekah from teasing based on Mormon stereotypes.
=======
So, an unfortunate, unintentional and general off-hand remark about gayness is punishable, but intentional harrassment on account of someone's religion is cool?
Is this the America we are heading for?
=======
Associated Press
Thursday, March 1, 2007
SANTA ROSA, Calif. � When a few classmates razzed Rebekah Rice about her Mormon upbringing with questions such as, "Do you have 10 moms?" she shot back: "That's so gay."
Those three words landed the high school freshman in the principal's office and resulted in a lawsuit that raises this question: When do playground insults used every day all over America cross the line into hate speech that must be stamped out?
Rice's parents, Elden and Katherine Rice, also claim the public high school employed a double-standard because, they say, administrators never sought to shield Rebekah from teasing based on Mormon stereotypes.
=======
So, an unfortunate, unintentional and general off-hand remark about gayness is punishable, but intentional harrassment on account of someone's religion is cool?
Is this the America we are heading for?
Re: The Golden Rule | 3:57 p.m. June 27, 2008
How is the LDS church voting to restrict the number of children gays and
lesbians can have? How are they voting to give them higher taxes, or limiting
where they spend their money? How are they voting to ban their civil unions in
states where they're legal? How are they voting to say where gays can and
can't travel to? How are they voting to force them to pay reparations to
everybody they've offended at any point in their lifetime?
Oh, gee, they're not. Guess your examples don't work.
Oh, gee, they're not. Guess your examples don't work.
re re The Golden Rule | 5:09 p.m. June 27, 2008
They certainly endorsed Amendment 3, which made Civil Unions illegal, here in
Utah.
Truth | 10:01 p.m. June 27, 2008
Truth will always be midunderstood, mistaken for evil, and rejected as
undesirable.
Wo unto those who call light darkness and darkness light.
Stand by the prophet! Who's on the Lord's side who? I am, I hope you are too.
Wo unto those who call light darkness and darkness light.
Stand by the prophet! Who's on the Lord's side who? I am, I hope you are too.
Stand by me | 3:39 p.m. June 30, 2008
Our Church has to take a stand on any issue that is in direct assault to Gods
plan of salvation for his children. Just like Jesus Christ we all came from our
heavenly home and this is our time to experience and be tested on earth.
Marriage and procreation by a man and women is the vehicle that brings us here.
The Gay-Lesbian marriage is not ordained of God and the sex activity is
immoral. Pregnancy is impossible and just like abortion it impedes and
frustrates the opportunities for many spirits awaiting their time on earth. God
always calls us to his ways through repentance by the voice of his holy spirit,
the voice of his prophets, if we're still hard headed by the voice storms,
fires, floods, earthquakes, famines and disease. We must take action to insure
the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman is firm and affixed in our
nation to be an example to the world. Anything to the contrary will bring the
judgemnts of God that will indeed humble us.(no negative or profane comments
please)
Patrick Terrill | 5:53 p.m. July 7, 2008
As a former member of the LDS Church, whom was told that being gay was against
god's law and was equal in LDS doctrine to murder by my childhood bishop,
why would I choose being gay? I had no choice over my sexuality than anyone has
over there eye color. The LDS church should keep out of church-state matters
or face losing there tax exempt status that they enjoy currently. As a
californian living in Los Angeles, there is always skiing in Colorado instead of
Utah, just a thought!
robert petersen | 10:02 a.m. Aug. 12, 2008
I don't care what you call a relationship between homosexuals or lesbians,
just don't call it marriage. That is a word that means between a man and a
woman.
Have all the rights you want otherwise, although seems to me a power of attorney would suffice.
Have all the rights you want otherwise, although seems to me a power of attorney would suffice.
kelly miller | 3:49 p.m. Aug. 21, 2008
I don't have a brother. Someone should have read carefully.
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