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Creators of Obama monkey shift gears
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Malt | 4:19 p.m. June 17, 2008
Everyone is too sensitive. Let the Lawsons make the dumb sock puppet. They can
pay the consequence for their naivety or racism (whichever it is) if it
doesn't sell.
I own a sock puppet.
I own a sock puppet.
oh yeah | 4:44 p.m. June 17, 2008
I think from now on, this need to be referred to as "The Evil Sock
Monkey".
Comments continue below
RL | 4:53 p.m. June 17, 2008
I'm all for free speech, but why do people do/say stuff like this??? I
mean come on! I don't like his opinions on how to run this country, but
he's still a human being just like the rest of us. He's
everyone's brother in some sense, and that color of his skin doesn't
make him any different than the mole on my toe makes me. Why are people so
stupid!!!!!!!!
To All | 5:27 p.m. June 17, 2008
Obama's campaign has NOT complained one bit about this -- in fact,
they've been more adult about it than the Lawsons or anyone here.
People who believe hoax emails, are too busy making up their own rumors.
People who believe hoax emails, are too busy making up their own rumors.
Denice | 5:39 p.m. June 17, 2008
Some of you out there are ignorant and uninformed. If this Obama sock
would've been made in New York or the South nobody would've cared!
These people being from Utah is truly too bad because that doesn't reflect
the mind of this state nor of the Church of Jesus Christ by any means. People
have always thought of the church as being racist including Black people.
However, that is absolutely not true! Research for yourself what Joseph Smith
said about the blacks prior to and while running for President of the United
States. Look at his party's platform. And as for McConkie. He had a lot
of retractions in his book "Mormon Doctrine". People honestly have no
clue about where true doctrine comes from. If it comes from the first
presidency, it is doctrine. Next is the scriptures: The Bible (Old and New
Testaments), The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great
Price, and Conference talks. Everything else is likely to be conjecture or
individual opinions and personal beliefs. Also you may sometimes be able to
able rely on copyrighted the Church. The Church asked McConkie to remove his
false doctrinal positions and he did.
Chris Plummer | 5:42 p.m. June 17, 2008
You have the right to make a Obama sock puppet, I also have the right to
ridicule you about it... what a great country.
Gus Talwynd | 6:21 p.m. June 17, 2008
Well, it didn't take long for the long-suppressed, racial stereotypes to be
introduced into this election. And, unfortunately, we are only seeing the
beginning. Unfortunately, if nothing else, the racial bigotry will become more
subtle and continue to be put out.
We're all waiting for the white hooker making a call and thanking Barack Obama for his position, leaving it up to the audience to connect the dots. White bigotry is particularly harmful because white people have the power in this country, and people with the power have control over others. This makes it imperative to be considerate and mindful of racist remarks and images.
We're all waiting for the white hooker making a call and thanking Barack Obama for his position, leaving it up to the audience to connect the dots. White bigotry is particularly harmful because white people have the power in this country, and people with the power have control over others. This makes it imperative to be considerate and mindful of racist remarks and images.
shadow | 6:54 p.m. June 17, 2008
Well, what do we have here? A sock puppet that is a caricature of one of the
candidates for President of the United States. No news here, people, move
along.
But wait, hold on...as I look at it... let's see...
Oh, this would sell well in Little Rock, Ark., 1956? Or in the backwoods of Alabama? Or any other racist territory.
Didn't we get by this in the last 40-50 years?
Apparently not; well, not in Utah. Has the community risen up and said, "Quit it, you embarass us so much! Have you no shame? How can we convert blacks to the love and wisdom of the Mormon church when you sell these insulting dolls?"
Where is the church? Where are the home missionaries? Before you rush off to worry about gays getting married in California you might want to get that log out of your eye!!"
Oh, Utah. We are so much better than this. But the world will never know because we have become racist in their eyes.
Well, maybe we are.
The Shadow Knows.
But wait, hold on...as I look at it... let's see...
Oh, this would sell well in Little Rock, Ark., 1956? Or in the backwoods of Alabama? Or any other racist territory.
Didn't we get by this in the last 40-50 years?
Apparently not; well, not in Utah. Has the community risen up and said, "Quit it, you embarass us so much! Have you no shame? How can we convert blacks to the love and wisdom of the Mormon church when you sell these insulting dolls?"
Where is the church? Where are the home missionaries? Before you rush off to worry about gays getting married in California you might want to get that log out of your eye!!"
Oh, Utah. We are so much better than this. But the world will never know because we have become racist in their eyes.
Well, maybe we are.
The Shadow Knows.
auction | 6:57 p.m. June 17, 2008
I wonder how much they could get if they put the doll on E-Bay?
Stumped | 7:09 p.m. June 17, 2008
The internet is an amazing place isn't it? Hundreds of brave souls sitting
behind their keyboards trying to defend racism.
Anonymous | 7:19 p.m. June 17, 2008
A spade is a spade.
Free Speach | 7:19 p.m. June 17, 2008
Liberals say they love free speach,they just don't want YOU to have it, if
you disagree with them! They are the ones that cry racism everytime someone
disagrees with them. Hypocrits all!
Anonymous | 7:21 p.m. June 17, 2008
And again, I ask...What if the Lawsons are from Illinois (Barak Obama's
home) and what if they are Christian but not LDS and what if they really are
Obama supporters, is it still racist?
For a people who so quickly say "do not judge" or "love the sinner, hate the sin", or "you don't have the facts or know these people", you are the ones defining the Utah reputation of hypocristy and intolerance, not the Lawsons.
For a people who so quickly say "do not judge" or "love the sinner, hate the sin", or "you don't have the facts or know these people", you are the ones defining the Utah reputation of hypocristy and intolerance, not the Lawsons.
Anonymous | 7:26 p.m. June 17, 2008
I haven't found the Obama sock puppet on ebay, it's only a matter of
time. BUT, there is an OBAMA troll doll. Trolls everywhere should be up in arms
and protesting!
Annie | 7:27 p.m. June 17, 2008
In answer to Anonymous who posted at 7:21 - Yes. It's still racist.
Re:stumped | 7:36 p.m. June 17, 2008
You have it wrong pal, it's hundred of people bravely sitting behind their
keyboards who see racism where it doesn't exist! Did you forget the racists
comments made from the left about Condelisa Rice, Clarence Thomas and other
minority conservatives? It seems it is only "good" minorities that you
approve of! The rest of us, have to agree with you or we are racists? Open your
eyes, the racists are on your side of the keyboard too!
Anonymous | 7:38 p.m. June 17, 2008
You are in charge of your own feelings. The Lawsons did not offend you, you
chose to be offended.
Dear "Free Speach" | 7:43 p.m. June 17, 2008
It's spelled SPEECH.
Sheesh. I'd expect you to at least be able to spell the word, since you're constantly lecturing us on it (despite your obviously never having read the First Amendment to the US Constitution).
Oh, and that other hard word?
It's spelled "hypocrites".
Sheesh. I'd expect you to at least be able to spell the word, since you're constantly lecturing us on it (despite your obviously never having read the First Amendment to the US Constitution).
Oh, and that other hard word?
It's spelled "hypocrites".
Anonymous | 7:42 p.m. June 17, 2008
Thanks for educating me. Apparently, I can't form my own opinions.
Dear Anonymous 7:21pm | 7:46 p.m. June 17, 2008
If you would bother to read the article, it clearly states that the Lawson
family is not Mormon.
They are not from Illinois. They live in West Jordan, Utah.
The name is spelled "Barack Obama" (not Barak).
IF they were Obama supporters, they'd certainly have stated so in their myriad writings. After all, a 20th excuse is as good as a 19th nervous breakdown.
They are not from Illinois. They live in West Jordan, Utah.
The name is spelled "Barack Obama" (not Barak).
IF they were Obama supporters, they'd certainly have stated so in their myriad writings. After all, a 20th excuse is as good as a 19th nervous breakdown.
re: dear anonymous | 7:53 p.m. June 17, 2008
I know the Lawsons, I know I'm right.
To "I can't help it" | 7:59 p.m. June 17, 2008
There's this thing called the Internet. I think you've heard of it. I
have it on good authority that there are numerous websites outlining grammatical
rules. I also find books to be invaluable in helping overcome both spelling
issues and ignorance.
The ignorance and racism expressed in many of these comments is dismaying - although not entirely unexpected. I visit family in Utah a couple of times a year and have lost count of the numerous racist and sexist slurs I've heard while in the state.
Comparing a black person to a monkey is incredibly offensive. Comparing a black person to a monkey was a common stereotype back in Jim Crow days. White people weren't dehumanized in the same way. To equate photos of GW Bush being compared to a monkey to a monkey toy used to portray Barack Obama is simply ignorant. Are Utah schools so deplorable that they don't teach students the fundamentals of the history of this country, and the grave injustices done to racial minorities??
The ignorance and racism expressed in many of these comments is dismaying - although not entirely unexpected. I visit family in Utah a couple of times a year and have lost count of the numerous racist and sexist slurs I've heard while in the state.
Comparing a black person to a monkey is incredibly offensive. Comparing a black person to a monkey was a common stereotype back in Jim Crow days. White people weren't dehumanized in the same way. To equate photos of GW Bush being compared to a monkey to a monkey toy used to portray Barack Obama is simply ignorant. Are Utah schools so deplorable that they don't teach students the fundamentals of the history of this country, and the grave injustices done to racial minorities??
Disgusted | 8:57 p.m. June 17, 2008
I am not surprised that this toy has caught the attention of the racist Utah
majority...to think this is funny or cute is disgusting. Those of you in Utah
who feel this is acceptable should check your recommend at the door as this is
not one bit Christlike or tolerable.
RE: Disgusted | 9:27 p.m. June 17, 2008
I'll agree with you 95 percent! Almost completely right on! The only
point of dissent: I doubt the majority of Utahns or LDS are NOT out-and-out
racists. A number of them are woefully uninformed about race, true--but
that's ignorance, not willful spite and bigotry.
Anyone who's REALLY "trying to be like Jesus," as the LDS profess, knows full well that racism is incompatible with this goal and is trying to be compassionate and egalitarian.
Not that there aren't some Utahns, including LDS, on the lunatic fringe--and comment boards like these tend to draw a disproportionate share of them. (We're not dealing with a representative sample here!) :) But *reasonable* and *decent* LDS people aren't racists at heart--even if some need more education on the subject.
Any LDS who ARE racists, however, should do exactly as you suggest. As President Hinckley made clear on several occasions, they should repent of that sentiment if they want to stay in the church.
Anyone who's REALLY "trying to be like Jesus," as the LDS profess, knows full well that racism is incompatible with this goal and is trying to be compassionate and egalitarian.
Not that there aren't some Utahns, including LDS, on the lunatic fringe--and comment boards like these tend to draw a disproportionate share of them. (We're not dealing with a representative sample here!) :) But *reasonable* and *decent* LDS people aren't racists at heart--even if some need more education on the subject.
Any LDS who ARE racists, however, should do exactly as you suggest. As President Hinckley made clear on several occasions, they should repent of that sentiment if they want to stay in the church.
History | 9:58 p.m. June 17, 2008
A careful study of history will show that slavery has existed in practically all
cultures--Asian, African, Arabic, European, the Americas and yes, Native
American. Slaves were sometimes prisoners taken in wars and raids. Sometimes
they were bought from slave dealers. Sometimes they were of the same racial or
ethnic background as the slave-holders and sometimes not.
Slavery existed (and still, unfortunately, does sometimes exist) particularly before the inventions of machines, to get physical work done that those of higher status in the society didn't want to do.
Whether you called a person a slave or a serf, the results were the same. At one time, serfs in England wore iron collars and were effectively "owned" by the lords of the manor. The serf was not allowed to ever leave the manor on which he was born without permission of the lord. (Some of my ancestors were serfs).
Thanks to the enlightenment of many good people, a huge number of them Christians like my Quaker ancestors, with not a little help from the industrial revolution, slavery was abolished in European and American countries pretty well at least 150 years ago.
Can't we ALL go forward as brothers and sisters--fellow human beings?
Slavery existed (and still, unfortunately, does sometimes exist) particularly before the inventions of machines, to get physical work done that those of higher status in the society didn't want to do.
Whether you called a person a slave or a serf, the results were the same. At one time, serfs in England wore iron collars and were effectively "owned" by the lords of the manor. The serf was not allowed to ever leave the manor on which he was born without permission of the lord. (Some of my ancestors were serfs).
Thanks to the enlightenment of many good people, a huge number of them Christians like my Quaker ancestors, with not a little help from the industrial revolution, slavery was abolished in European and American countries pretty well at least 150 years ago.
Can't we ALL go forward as brothers and sisters--fellow human beings?
Smivic | 10:13 p.m. June 17, 2008
To portray Obama as a monkey is a known racial stereotype and shouldn't be
a part of civilized discussion.
To portray Bush as a monkey simply expresses an opinion on his capabilities and his record.
...Not the same...
To portray Bush as a monkey simply expresses an opinion on his capabilities and his record.
...Not the same...
re: History | 10:49 p.m. June 17, 2008
Your "history" ignores the fact that in this country, racism and the
marginalization of African Americans did not end with the abolition of slavery.
Well into the 1900s, Jim Crow laws enforced segregation - many schools, other
public institutions, and businesses were segregated by law; many blacks were
disenfranchised through discriminatory voting laws; anti-miscegenation laws
remained on the books for decades, and notable child custody cases hinged on the
race of a parent or their new spouse. I don't need to tell you that racism
is still alive and well - do you not remember several years ago the lynching and
brutal murder of James Byrd in Texas? It would be wonderful if we could all
simply put history behind us and move on, but it's far easier said than
done. The legacy of slavery, Jim Crow and more subtle forms of racism continue
to exist in this country - as is clear both from the sock puppet and comments
left here.
Anonymous | 11:25 p.m. June 17, 2008
Seriously, all of you, shut up.
Great Liberal minds | 11:57 p.m. June 17, 2008
As I read some of the comments on this site, I am amazed how much some of you
sound like the "great" liberal minds of the past; Karl Marks, Lennin,
Mao and Pol Pot. All were anti-capitalists. All were sure religion was very bad.
All were some how able to see racism where it never existed and all were sure
they knew a higher road for the human race and that everyone except themselves
were uneducated and needed enlightenment. Even when their ideas killed millions
of people, some say they were simply, "not understood or before their
time." They promised utopia but delivered poverty, death and political
slavery. Some of you scare the rest of us very much!
Anonymous | 12:13 a.m. June 18, 2008
When White people go through 450 years of slavery and racism, and beatings and
cruel treatment, then the Bush/Monkey references will be just as wrong as this
puppet.
It isn't a double standard, because the history of whites and blacks aren't equal. If they were, it would be.
All this right-wing, "why can black people say it's racist, but we can't?", stuff is silly and you know why it's silly.
Just as silly is all the Utah Bashing. I grew up in Ogden, and I was treated horribly by the children, because I wasn't Mormon, but it wasn't all the children, just the mean ones. The point is, there are mean people everywhere, in New York and L.A., as well as SLC. Overall, I enjoyed the people of Utah. I live in Nevada now, but I still look fondly on those times. Utah isn't stuck in 1958, it's changing like the whole country is.
The Puppet was in bad taste, I hope these folks didn't understand, like they said, but I doubt it.
It isn't a double standard, because the history of whites and blacks aren't equal. If they were, it would be.
All this right-wing, "why can black people say it's racist, but we can't?", stuff is silly and you know why it's silly.
Just as silly is all the Utah Bashing. I grew up in Ogden, and I was treated horribly by the children, because I wasn't Mormon, but it wasn't all the children, just the mean ones. The point is, there are mean people everywhere, in New York and L.A., as well as SLC. Overall, I enjoyed the people of Utah. I live in Nevada now, but I still look fondly on those times. Utah isn't stuck in 1958, it's changing like the whole country is.
The Puppet was in bad taste, I hope these folks didn't understand, like they said, but I doubt it.
Joe | 12:56 a.m. June 18, 2008
Thanks to the Lawson's I just saw on national television how backward
Utahns must be. That should be good for tourism.
Re: anonymous 12:13am | 1:16 a.m. June 18, 2008
IF my math is correct you didn't live through all that either.
By bringing up past history, jim crow, etc,
aren't you teaching your children to hate and anger, racism, and to be offended by things they don't need to b, all based on long ago past wrongs?.
Stop living in the past.
we don't need to create offense of sock puppets,
we don't need to manufacture racism by twisting a senators words.
It's time to realize things have changed.
all this stuff is doing is trying to keep things the same by teaching an new generation to have hatred and anger and to be easily offended.
NOne this is doing any good.
It's time to stop living in the past.
By bringing up past history, jim crow, etc,
aren't you teaching your children to hate and anger, racism, and to be offended by things they don't need to b, all based on long ago past wrongs?.
Stop living in the past.
we don't need to create offense of sock puppets,
we don't need to manufacture racism by twisting a senators words.
It's time to realize things have changed.
all this stuff is doing is trying to keep things the same by teaching an new generation to have hatred and anger and to be easily offended.
NOne this is doing any good.
It's time to stop living in the past.
Hey, Denice | 5:04 a.m. June 18, 2008
To answer your question about whether people in the South would care if this
puppet was being made there: YES, THEY WOULD. You'd better believe it!
It's a racist symbol from their ignoble past. You'd have people
complaining about the KKK and complaining about the racist legacy of the
"monkey" image. Just like on here--but on a bigger scale!
It's flat-out ridiculous to imply that there's nothing wrong with making fun of Obama's race. Yes, there is. Don't be too blind to recognize it.
It's flat-out ridiculous to imply that there's nothing wrong with making fun of Obama's race. Yes, there is. Don't be too blind to recognize it.
GLC3 | 5:14 a.m. June 18, 2008
Not offensive???
I'm sure right now the doll is at the top of every KKK members Christmas list.
If we can't see how portraying a black person as a monkey is racist then we have a lot further to go with race relations in this country than we thought.
It's impossible that no one involved with the doll did not see the racist implications especially after the racist T shirt in Georgia that portrayed Barack Obama as a monkey a few months ago.
PS, they claimed that wasn't racist either.
I'm sure right now the doll is at the top of every KKK members Christmas list.
If we can't see how portraying a black person as a monkey is racist then we have a lot further to go with race relations in this country than we thought.
It's impossible that no one involved with the doll did not see the racist implications especially after the racist T shirt in Georgia that portrayed Barack Obama as a monkey a few months ago.
PS, they claimed that wasn't racist either.
RE: History | 5:17 a.m. June 18, 2008
We can all go forward together as human beings once we admit two core facts: 1)
FOR ONE GROUP TO ENSLAVE ANOTHER GROUP OF HUMAN BEINGS IS WRONG. 2) FOR ONE
GROUP TO EXERCISE POWER OVER LESS-POWERFUL GROUPS BY STEREOTYPING AND EXERCISING
PREJUDICE IS WRONG.
If history has taught us anything, it's taught us that--or tried to. Maybe we should have been listening better for the past 500 years or so. I frankly don't give a rat's patoot who else has done slavery, where, and why. It's still wrong.
Prostitution has existed in nearly every known society of the world. Like slavery, does its historical prevalence make it right?
Finally, it's an excellent point that we need to forgive and forget. Yet minimizing the historical damage that has been done or suggesting that we should demand forgiveness from a group of people who have been mistreated is short-sighted at best (and cruel at worst). Forgiveness is a gift that will come much easier when we ourselves stop judging and extend mercy.
If history has taught us anything, it's taught us that--or tried to. Maybe we should have been listening better for the past 500 years or so. I frankly don't give a rat's patoot who else has done slavery, where, and why. It's still wrong.
Prostitution has existed in nearly every known society of the world. Like slavery, does its historical prevalence make it right?
Finally, it's an excellent point that we need to forgive and forget. Yet minimizing the historical damage that has been done or suggesting that we should demand forgiveness from a group of people who have been mistreated is short-sighted at best (and cruel at worst). Forgiveness is a gift that will come much easier when we ourselves stop judging and extend mercy.
RE: Great Liberal Minds | 5:59 a.m. June 18, 2008
I assume you mean Karl MARX? Vladimir LENIN? Correct spelling always helps
people believe that you truly understand the issues.
Liberals are simply people who want social change in the interest of creating a better society than the one we've got now. So thank heavens for truly "Great Liberal Minds" like Locke, Rousseau, Hobbes, Kant, Hegel, and so forth--not to mention Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Washington, and others. Wonderful Liberals, all of them.
Agreed: Marx and Lenin hardly fall in the same class. They, too, wanted social change. But their goals and approaches were hardly the same--and hardly beneficial to people who value freedom. Not a contradiction of my point--but my point itself. Those "Liberals" are pretty darn varied, aren't they? And we've got to carefully discern which ones we'll listen to?
So if it's "Liberal" and therefore evil to encourage people to be kinder, friendlier, more generous, more willing to serve others, more family-oriented, less inclined to believe that politics is religion, and in short, more Christlike--shoot, I guess you'll have to call me one, too!
"Great Liberal Minds," there's more to being "Liberal"--in the best sense of the word!-- than you've ever imagined.
Liberals are simply people who want social change in the interest of creating a better society than the one we've got now. So thank heavens for truly "Great Liberal Minds" like Locke, Rousseau, Hobbes, Kant, Hegel, and so forth--not to mention Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Washington, and others. Wonderful Liberals, all of them.
Agreed: Marx and Lenin hardly fall in the same class. They, too, wanted social change. But their goals and approaches were hardly the same--and hardly beneficial to people who value freedom. Not a contradiction of my point--but my point itself. Those "Liberals" are pretty darn varied, aren't they? And we've got to carefully discern which ones we'll listen to?
So if it's "Liberal" and therefore evil to encourage people to be kinder, friendlier, more generous, more willing to serve others, more family-oriented, less inclined to believe that politics is religion, and in short, more Christlike--shoot, I guess you'll have to call me one, too!
"Great Liberal Minds," there's more to being "Liberal"--in the best sense of the word!-- than you've ever imagined.
Tank | 8:28 a.m. June 18, 2008
Well my last post was removed, I guess someone needs to stay out of the
kitchen..(they apparently can't stand the heat).
So in an effort to not be censored again...
The bottom line to this whole thing is answered through one simple question.
If both candidates were white, would the concept of a sockpuppet made to look like a monkey ever see the light of day?
Ummm nope, I didn't think so.
So there it is....congratulations Lawson's...you are officially racists.
Oh an to the panicky republican's that can't stand the thought that we will have a Democratic white house this time, relax kids, there is no way anyone on this planet could make things worse than Bush.
So in an effort to not be censored again...
The bottom line to this whole thing is answered through one simple question.
If both candidates were white, would the concept of a sockpuppet made to look like a monkey ever see the light of day?
Ummm nope, I didn't think so.
So there it is....congratulations Lawson's...you are officially racists.
Oh an to the panicky republican's that can't stand the thought that we will have a Democratic white house this time, relax kids, there is no way anyone on this planet could make things worse than Bush.
If Utah is racist... | 9:23 a.m. June 18, 2008
If Utah (and LDS members) as a whole are considered racist because of the
actions of a few. Then everyone in California are gang bangers, everyone
Oklahoma are government building bombing terrorists, everyone in Colorado are
high school kid murderers.... and the list goes on and on.
Bad things happen in every state people. In fact, there is a lot worse happening in most states than what goes on here. Oh, but I guess if the guy down the street goes to jail for child abuse, the entire neighborhood is condemed.
You think you're living in the here and now because you are a defender against racism, and in the next breath you are spewing bigotry. There is no room in this country for either. The fight for religious freedom has been a battle with a MUCH longer history than racial freedom and civil rights. Remember that the next time promote hate towards another's religion, you are no better than a racist.
Bad things happen in every state people. In fact, there is a lot worse happening in most states than what goes on here. Oh, but I guess if the guy down the street goes to jail for child abuse, the entire neighborhood is condemed.
You think you're living in the here and now because you are a defender against racism, and in the next breath you are spewing bigotry. There is no room in this country for either. The fight for religious freedom has been a battle with a MUCH longer history than racial freedom and civil rights. Remember that the next time promote hate towards another's religion, you are no better than a racist.
Anonymous | 9:51 a.m. June 18, 2008
Would this doll have ever been created had Obama's ears not looked the way
they do? Probably not. That's not racist, it's just insulting to his
appearance.
That said, the puppets are not cute. They are not funny. As evidenced by the comments on this board, they only serve as a reminder of hateful theories floated around in the past. If there's even a CHANCE that something you say or do could be considered hurtful or insulting to others, you shouldn't say or do it. Free speech exists, but that doesn't mean we should be openly trying to offend others with it.
And painting all Utahns, and all LDS members, with the same approving brush is also offensive. The Lawsons aren't even LDS, and their sock puppet does not reflect the opinions of the majority of people in this state. Did you guys see that horrible cartoon in the SLC Trib yesterday? That's just as offensive as this puppet is, and moreover, there's no basis for it. The vast majority of people commenting on these boards are Utahns who disagree with what the Lawsons created, and I'd bet a good number of them are LDS, too, given this newspaper.
That said, the puppets are not cute. They are not funny. As evidenced by the comments on this board, they only serve as a reminder of hateful theories floated around in the past. If there's even a CHANCE that something you say or do could be considered hurtful or insulting to others, you shouldn't say or do it. Free speech exists, but that doesn't mean we should be openly trying to offend others with it.
And painting all Utahns, and all LDS members, with the same approving brush is also offensive. The Lawsons aren't even LDS, and their sock puppet does not reflect the opinions of the majority of people in this state. Did you guys see that horrible cartoon in the SLC Trib yesterday? That's just as offensive as this puppet is, and moreover, there's no basis for it. The vast majority of people commenting on these boards are Utahns who disagree with what the Lawsons created, and I'd bet a good number of them are LDS, too, given this newspaper.
Heather | 10:54 a.m. June 18, 2008
Keith Olbermann put it best last night when he named the Lawsons one of his
"Worst Persons in the World".
He likened the use of a monkey for a stuffed toy version of Obama to if someone decided to make a "Mr. & Mrs. Lawson" doll and decided that it would be funny to have 3 dolls in the set, because if they're from Utah, maybe Mr. Lawson has 2 wives.
Clearly, a prejudiced and hateful statement. Same sentiment as portraying a black man as a monkey.
He likened the use of a monkey for a stuffed toy version of Obama to if someone decided to make a "Mr. & Mrs. Lawson" doll and decided that it would be funny to have 3 dolls in the set, because if they're from Utah, maybe Mr. Lawson has 2 wives.
Clearly, a prejudiced and hateful statement. Same sentiment as portraying a black man as a monkey.
John Lambert | 1:51 p.m. June 18, 2008
I am really tired of reading all the blanket attacks on African Americans that
are lodged on the Deseret News boards. TO say some African Americans are
racists is one thing, but to say "the ones who are racists are the
blacks" is bigotry pure and simple.
Just because you only take notice of blacks when they speak up does not mean that is all they do. When has Condoleeza Rice been engaged in race baiting?
There are differences among blacks and whites. There are white people who say they have voted democrat all their lives but will not vote for Obama because he is black. The KKK still exists. It was less than 15 years ago that the classic racist book "The Bell Curve" was published. So do not tell me racism only exists among blacks. If you really want an end to racialized rhetoric, than stop attacking other races as a group. If you have a gripe with one person, name them, not a whole group of people.
Just because you only take notice of blacks when they speak up does not mean that is all they do. When has Condoleeza Rice been engaged in race baiting?
There are differences among blacks and whites. There are white people who say they have voted democrat all their lives but will not vote for Obama because he is black. The KKK still exists. It was less than 15 years ago that the classic racist book "The Bell Curve" was published. So do not tell me racism only exists among blacks. If you really want an end to racialized rhetoric, than stop attacking other races as a group. If you have a gripe with one person, name them, not a whole group of people.
RE: Anonymous@9:51 | 1:53 p.m. June 18, 2008
I largely agree with MOST of your comments. For instance: Free speech does NOT
guarantee the right to deliberately provoke and offend others (i.e., the
"fighting words" exclusion). That's what makes this Obama puppet
so horrible.
Just a couple of points where we vary, however:
1) I hope you can understand eventually that the sock puppet's insult to Obama's appearance IS racist. That's the very point. The KKK and others interested in tearing down racial minorities have made long careers of mockery, including depicting Black appearance (and intelligence!) as monkey-like. Several posters have explained the Black/monkey stereotype pretty well.
2) I highly doubt "the vast majority" of people posting here are from Utah, though a *simple* majority may be. I myself don't live in Utah, and I'm aware of DesNews readers and commenters alike in most U.S. states and even some abroad. However, most posters certainly have some LDS membership, sympathy, or interest (even anti).
Just a couple of points where we vary, however:
1) I hope you can understand eventually that the sock puppet's insult to Obama's appearance IS racist. That's the very point. The KKK and others interested in tearing down racial minorities have made long careers of mockery, including depicting Black appearance (and intelligence!) as monkey-like. Several posters have explained the Black/monkey stereotype pretty well.
2) I highly doubt "the vast majority" of people posting here are from Utah, though a *simple* majority may be. I myself don't live in Utah, and I'm aware of DesNews readers and commenters alike in most U.S. states and even some abroad. However, most posters certainly have some LDS membership, sympathy, or interest (even anti).
To RE: Anonymous@9:51 | 4:31 p.m. June 18, 2008
While I completely agree that comparing a black person to a monkey is racist, I
believe you also have to look at the intent. In this case, they were basing
their puppets off Obama's ears, not his skin color. It doesn't make it
right, and it's quite obviously upsetting to a lot of people who are taking
it as a reference to the color of his skin. I would be completely horrified by
this, as most people on these boards are, if that was the basis for the puppets.
I'm still VERY unimpressed by them as it is. But I'm also willing to
give them the benefit of the doubt that they didn't intend to mean it the
way it was taken. I don't that I think they're right, and I don't
mean that I think they should continue making the dolls now that they know how
people are perceiving them. But I do believe that they didn't realize how
hurtful and upsetting their actions would be. They should have, but I don't
think in this case that they did.
Paul | 6:33 p.m. June 19, 2008
Wow the LDS have some damage control to do over this one.
Bob | 9:39 p.m. June 19, 2008
Shadow; you are spot on. The ironic thing is that Obama won the Utah Democratic
primary.
Though, I'd guess its because he wasn't Hillary.
Though, I'd guess its because he wasn't Hillary.
American Voter | 6:15 a.m. June 20, 2008
I see a lot of people that need to step back an reevaluate their position on
this! You say that this is "wrong" and "disgusting" but yet
you fail to take the same position when President Bush is compared to a Chimp or
idiot!!! You are a bunch of hypocrites!!! And death threats??? What is that
all about? Could this be a precursor to the (possible) election of our
"First Muslim President"? Is this not the way they conduct
"business" in the Muslim world?
To Paul: | 9:10 a.m. June 20, 2008
"Wow the LDS have some damage control to do over this one."
Why? The Lawsons aren't LDS. The LDS church isn't making, selling, or even commenting on the sale of these dolls. What do they have to do with anything about this?
Why? The Lawsons aren't LDS. The LDS church isn't making, selling, or even commenting on the sale of these dolls. What do they have to do with anything about this?
To American Voter | 12:04 p.m. June 20, 2008
Please. Your ignorance is showing. Let me help you out:
1) Barack Obama is not Muslim. Yes, his father was Muslim, but he is not. Believe it or not, it's possible for a child to NOT follow in the faith of their parents. Even if he were, how ignorant of you to lump all Muslims together! Would you like to see all Christians lumped together as fanatical abortion doctor killers, or as little boy molesters? I thought not.
2) As has been said numerous times here and elsewhere already, comparing a black person to a monkey is completely different from comparing a white person to a monkey. Comparisons of black people to monkeys is deragatory, and is dates back to practices of dehumanizing black people. To compare a white person to a monkey is to make a statement regarding their decisions and intelligence. Completely and totally different.
1) Barack Obama is not Muslim. Yes, his father was Muslim, but he is not. Believe it or not, it's possible for a child to NOT follow in the faith of their parents. Even if he were, how ignorant of you to lump all Muslims together! Would you like to see all Christians lumped together as fanatical abortion doctor killers, or as little boy molesters? I thought not.
2) As has been said numerous times here and elsewhere already, comparing a black person to a monkey is completely different from comparing a white person to a monkey. Comparisons of black people to monkeys is deragatory, and is dates back to practices of dehumanizing black people. To compare a white person to a monkey is to make a statement regarding their decisions and intelligence. Completely and totally different.
Couple of Things | 12:36 p.m. June 20, 2008
To "Paul": Uh, nice try. But "To Paul" is spot on. This has
nothing to do with the LDS Church. Trying to drag Mormonism into this speaks to
your own biases, my friend--not those you might ascribe to someone else.
To "To American Voter": Applause! Just a minor tweak on your second point--it's STILL insulting to compare a white person to a monkey. It's just a much more MAGNIFIED insult, because of the historical baggage involved, in the case of Blacks.
To "To American Voter": Applause! Just a minor tweak on your second point--it's STILL insulting to compare a white person to a monkey. It's just a much more MAGNIFIED insult, because of the historical baggage involved, in the case of Blacks.
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And yes I am white and LDS.