Reader comments
Shurtleff skips meeting with FLDS leader
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zxcvbnm | 6:45 a.m. June 14, 2008
I don't know if the old saying "better late than never" applys but at least they are talking.
It seems that the State of Utah and its partner in Arizona have watched the FLDS from a distance as the group grew hopeing to avoid direct confrontation.
Avoidance of unbiased investigation has led to the rumor fueled mess we have today.
Texas was supplied with the information gathered by its sister states as well as the sensationalized rantings of ex-members overreacted in its usual fashion and stands now looking like a modern Gestapo State.
Why didn't Utah and Arizona do something about Flora Jessop taking 14 year old girls away from their parents.....at the least provide foster care for the runaways. The boys that were truly juviniles should have been supported in state foster care until adulthood.
Hindsight may be 20/20 but 50 years of hindsight is blindness.
A few State workers dealing with truancy and State police overseeing local jurisdictions would have uncovered "lost boys" or crooked local cops.
Birth records are public, there is your evidence of under age mothers.
The redheaded stepchild has grown up and now we can't seperate truth from fiction.
Persecution | 9:31 a.m. June 14, 2008
Again the old line "this isn't about persecution, its about criminal
activity" yet I just read another DS article saying the AG's of Utah,
Arizona, Nevada, and Texas met to discuss their next plan of attack on FLDS
crime. Where is the evidence of crime? Even Warren Jeffs was convicted of
accomplice of a crime that was never committed, or tried in court. How does
that work and why only FLDS? Persecution it was, and persecution it continues to
be.
Comments continue below
down south | 10:51 a.m. June 14, 2008
birth records are public...only if the record has been filed~ Not all
Hildale/Colorado City births are filled and recorded. Many babies go months and
months without a name because the "father/sperm donor" doesn't
take the time to figure out a name for the child. I don't know if the
certificate is required to get on medicaid or to get food stamps. If so, that
would be the only reason to get one for many of these folks.
Emma in Illinois | 1:20 p.m. June 14, 2008
Of course, Shurtleff avoided the meeting with Willie Jessop, leading me to
believe that he does not want to face what happened to the women and children of
Eldorado. Jessop was there, ready to work out whatever it is that need be.
It's clear that Texas has taken wide steps to wipe out the FLDS, along with
help from Utah, and Arizona, the States that are hiding behind the rough and
tough, don't mess with me Texas! People, this is religious persecution,
done in the cruelest way! My heart goes out to Willie Jessop, it seems like he
is one of the only men defending the rights of the innocent. What in the world
is wrong with that? What is WRONG is to take over 400 children, and adult women
and hold them hostage. And, if Willie Jessop has commited horrible crimes, why
is he not hiding? He is out there in the public eye defending those who cannot
defend themselves. Face it Texas, you made a HUGE mistake! You are the ones that
are the child abusers, women abusers, and quite frankly you should be ashamed of
turning this community into 1942 Germany. Should'nt that have been enough!
once again | 1:37 p.m. June 14, 2008
once again FLDS are refused the chance to enter evidence in the case. If our
officials and courts refuse to listen and pre-judge anyone, and form special
task forces against them, then we just are not living in America anymore. Does
this happen all the time, but just on such a small scale that we dont see it?
Gal50 | 2:24 p.m. June 14, 2008
Talking is a good idea and Willie Jessop seems to be more on the ball than
Warren Jeffs or Merrill Jessop. Warren being in jail and Merrill
"traveling" during the Texas FLDS investigation makes them somewhat
indisposed when it comes to meeting with law enforcement.
Perhaps Willie Jessop recognizes that FLDS illegal activity has gone too far to escape attention from law enforcement and he needs to retrench. He has done what a decent leader should do which is announce changes and meet with authorities.
There could be a numbers game going on here. The AGs may want to ensure that they don't get landed with more headaches in terms of FLDS streaming out of Texas and into their states. Canada, Utah and others have sent out discouraging messages. Only Colorado and South Dakota seem relatively welcoming at this point.
The goal of leaving Utah due to more aggressive prosecution of criminal behavior for Texas has backfired. Rather than alter their recipe for religion, the FLDS may test the waters in Colorado and South Dakota while back peddling in Canada, Utah and Texas. Providing the federal investigation goes nowhere, sooner or later one state will provide a safe haven.
Perhaps Willie Jessop recognizes that FLDS illegal activity has gone too far to escape attention from law enforcement and he needs to retrench. He has done what a decent leader should do which is announce changes and meet with authorities.
There could be a numbers game going on here. The AGs may want to ensure that they don't get landed with more headaches in terms of FLDS streaming out of Texas and into their states. Canada, Utah and others have sent out discouraging messages. Only Colorado and South Dakota seem relatively welcoming at this point.
The goal of leaving Utah due to more aggressive prosecution of criminal behavior for Texas has backfired. Rather than alter their recipe for religion, the FLDS may test the waters in Colorado and South Dakota while back peddling in Canada, Utah and Texas. Providing the federal investigation goes nowhere, sooner or later one state will provide a safe haven.
thinkdeeper | 3:39 p.m. June 14, 2008
You know what is so amazing to me? How some articles are written as if everyone
wants the FLDS church to be brought down. THAT is so stupid. iIf the beliefs and
practices of the FLDS bring forth such peaceful, forgiving, and dare I say it
"sweet people" I for want want them to increase. One major advantage
of their lifestyle is that there are no fatherless housholds. One of their
beliefs is that a man must do all he can to provide for the children he
procreates or else he will lose them. They will be given to a man that will be
vigilant in his duty. TO ME THAT IS AWESOME!!!
The Truth of the Matter | 9:51 p.m. June 14, 2008
I agree with Emma from IL that it was a crime to rip nursing babies away from
their mothers.
It is also a crime to force young girls to choose between a life of polygamy or exile.
I hope and pray that the evildoers on both sides will be exposed and prosecuted. I also pray that safeguards will be put in place to prevent further abuse--either by CPS and Texas or by FLDS.
It is also a crime to force young girls to choose between a life of polygamy or exile.
I hope and pray that the evildoers on both sides will be exposed and prosecuted. I also pray that safeguards will be put in place to prevent further abuse--either by CPS and Texas or by FLDS.
Desiree Michigan | 1:01 a.m. June 15, 2008
I am Desiree Matteson From Michigan { NO I HAVE NO FEAR TO SAY WHO I AM... SO
BRING IT ON!!!
I have so much HEART-ACHE For ALL of the FLDS Women, Infants, Young Girls & Boys, Teenage Girls & Boys, & "The Lost Boys"!!!!!!
A CHILD IS A MINOR UNTIL THEY REACH THE AGE OF 18 IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!
NOW DO YOU THINK ANY OF THESE FLDS CHILDREN HAVE THIER OWN
DECISION???????
I have so much HEART-ACHE For ALL of the FLDS Women, Infants, Young Girls & Boys, Teenage Girls & Boys, & "The Lost Boys"!!!!!!
A CHILD IS A MINOR UNTIL THEY REACH THE AGE OF 18 IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!
NOW DO YOU THINK ANY OF THESE FLDS CHILDREN HAVE THIER OWN
DECISION???????
Desiree From Michigan | 1:02 a.m. June 15, 2008
I am the Daughter { My Parents are still married to each other, Over 40 Years
Later }, Wife, To The Husband I CHOOSE { Yes My Husband Randy Is Just Married To
Me!! } & I AM THE VERY PROUD MOTHER To 5 AWESOME CHILDREN WITH US & ONE
ANGEL "SIERRA MICHELE" AMONG US~~~
As I sit here & think about this, My son Joey will be 18 years old this Dec. 1, 2008 & is going into the UNITED STATES ARMY, AS THIS IS HIS OWN CHOICE { Rather we like it or not } BUT HE WILL FIGHT FOR OUR FREEDOM!!!!!!!!
YES I said FREEDOM!!! You see I was born and raised with MANY MORALS & Raised Within The Christian Church, Just As We Have Raised All Of Our Children.
Flora Jessop & Carolyn Jessop ARE TRUE HEROS!! THEY HAVE STOOD UP FOR THE RIGHT OF THESE CHILDREN AT ANY COST!!
As I sit here & think about this, My son Joey will be 18 years old this Dec. 1, 2008 & is going into the UNITED STATES ARMY, AS THIS IS HIS OWN CHOICE { Rather we like it or not } BUT HE WILL FIGHT FOR OUR FREEDOM!!!!!!!!
YES I said FREEDOM!!! You see I was born and raised with MANY MORALS & Raised Within The Christian Church, Just As We Have Raised All Of Our Children.
Flora Jessop & Carolyn Jessop ARE TRUE HEROS!! THEY HAVE STOOD UP FOR THE RIGHT OF THESE CHILDREN AT ANY COST!!
MiMi | 10:56 a.m. June 15, 2008
Seeing the comments here in support of "spiritual marriage" of
under-age girls to adult men (which is just a religious euphemnism for setting
up intimate sexual relations between minor girls and adult men) is disgusting.
And to justify it as "preventing the sin of fornication" is a bizarre
twist of logic. The lengths people will go to to rationalize sexual abuse of
minors is despicable.
Celia | 5:05 p.m. June 15, 2008
I can see where it would be very difficult to trust government officials.
Wrong | 2:16 a.m. June 16, 2008
To take the children is just wrong. To taked the husbands would have made more
sense. Then go from there.
The things people do in the name of religion. They must know this is not right. They are born into this religion, but God gave all of his children a conscience...they know right from wrong...and in their being they know that what this religion is doing to its members is not right. Look at all those who got out because they followed that light within themselves. Others have it, but they are too scared to follow it for the fear they will not make it to heaven.
It's a shame that so many defend this way of life. It is not right.
Let the children have their free agency, and the women too for that matter. The men controlling the women, and saying that once they are married, the wife belongs to them and becomes their property. It is true...it's just that those who speak up will lose everything...even their families.
I hope they come to their senses and just do the right thing and leave this mess behind and free their children.
The things people do in the name of religion. They must know this is not right. They are born into this religion, but God gave all of his children a conscience...they know right from wrong...and in their being they know that what this religion is doing to its members is not right. Look at all those who got out because they followed that light within themselves. Others have it, but they are too scared to follow it for the fear they will not make it to heaven.
It's a shame that so many defend this way of life. It is not right.
Let the children have their free agency, and the women too for that matter. The men controlling the women, and saying that once they are married, the wife belongs to them and becomes their property. It is true...it's just that those who speak up will lose everything...even their families.
I hope they come to their senses and just do the right thing and leave this mess behind and free their children.
Dennis | 9:13 a.m. June 16, 2008
MiMi | 10:56 a.m. June 15, 2008
"Seeing the comments here in support of... intimate sexual relations between minor girls and adult men) is disgusting."
You might want to read the posts again. You're the only one who said anything like that.
This article is about a government official who spouts vitriol about a private citizen but doesn't have the courage to meet him face to face. Maybe you should try to come up with something to say about that.
"Seeing the comments here in support of... intimate sexual relations between minor girls and adult men) is disgusting."
You might want to read the posts again. You're the only one who said anything like that.
This article is about a government official who spouts vitriol about a private citizen but doesn't have the courage to meet him face to face. Maybe you should try to come up with something to say about that.
Dennis | 9:17 a.m. June 16, 2008
Wrong | 2:16 a.m. June 16, 2008
"To take the children is just wrong. To taked the husbands would have made more sense."
How would it have made more sense to arrest adult men without any evidence? Please explain your thinking on this.
"To take the children is just wrong. To taked the husbands would have made more sense."
How would it have made more sense to arrest adult men without any evidence? Please explain your thinking on this.
Gregory | 9:32 a.m. June 16, 2008
Desiree From Michigan | 1:02 a.m. June 15, 2008
"Flora Jessop & Carolyn Jessop... HAVE STOOD UP FOR THE RIGHT OF THESE CHILDREN AT ANY COST!!"
1. Children's rights Flora and Carolyn have stood up for:
The right to see their mother's manhandled and humiliated.
The right to be ripped, sobbing, from their mothers' arms.
The right to be woke up in the middle of the night and interrogated.
The right to have CPS workers poking around their genitals.
The right to be subjected to anal examinations.
The right to be introduced to topics of deviant sex at a tender age.
The right to be moved hundreds of miles from parents and siblings.
2. The cost they have paid:
Best selling books.
Paid TV interviews.
International fame.
Sweet revenge on their enemies.
"Flora Jessop & Carolyn Jessop... HAVE STOOD UP FOR THE RIGHT OF THESE CHILDREN AT ANY COST!!"
1. Children's rights Flora and Carolyn have stood up for:
The right to see their mother's manhandled and humiliated.
The right to be ripped, sobbing, from their mothers' arms.
The right to be woke up in the middle of the night and interrogated.
The right to have CPS workers poking around their genitals.
The right to be subjected to anal examinations.
The right to be introduced to topics of deviant sex at a tender age.
The right to be moved hundreds of miles from parents and siblings.
2. The cost they have paid:
Best selling books.
Paid TV interviews.
International fame.
Sweet revenge on their enemies.
gregory | 1:50 p.m. June 16, 2008
CPS does not do or allow "anal examinations" or "poking around
genitals". Where do you get your info. from? most of the children already
knew about sex, they even wrote down their expierences. I'm sure you are
FLDS, you can tell by your post. Does your religion speak against dishonesty?
Or, is it allowed if it's directed to the " evil outsiders"?
Gregory Imposter | 7:17 p.m. June 16, 2008
No, they just hire someone to do the poking around, right? Where do you get
YOUR info?
To gregory | 12:09 p.m. June 17, 2008
Sorry, i thought I wrote "to gregory". I'm not trying to be an
imposter. Seriously though, anal exams and poking genitals? how do you know they
hire poeple to do this? What purpose would it serve. Do you really believe
caseworkers want to see children harmed? Do you know any caseworkers? I know
several. The are honest and work 50-60 hours a week trying to protect children.
They make less than teachers and are often in very dangerous situations. I
really don't think their goal is to poke at children's privates.
Desiree | 11:31 p.m. June 18, 2008
More of My Comments,
So again I ASK, where are all of the fathers to these children? Now Maggie may have been wife # 4 for all I know, but it would seem to a person like me, if you have that many wives, would it not go in SOME order and with each and everyone of them to get your own children??
I am guessing the answer is NO, so what purpose are you serving to have so many wives and children, when a "CRISIS" CAME ABOUT YOU
So again I ASK, where are all of the fathers to these children? Now Maggie may have been wife # 4 for all I know, but it would seem to a person like me, if you have that many wives, would it not go in SOME order and with each and everyone of them to get your own children??
I am guessing the answer is NO, so what purpose are you serving to have so many wives and children, when a "CRISIS" CAME ABOUT YOU
Desiree | 12:03 a.m. June 19, 2008
BUT HOW COULD ANY PARENT THINK THAT MAKING THIER 13, 14, 15 0R 16 YEAR OLD
DAUGHTER MARRY A MAN { WHOM THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT FOR THAT MATTER! } BE
OKAY??? WHO QUITE FARNKLY SHOULD BE IN PRISON FOR THE THOUGHT OF MARRYING A GIRL
OF THIS AGE!
To Desiree | 4:00 p.m. July 2, 2008
Sorry! you are SOOOOOOOOOOOO misinformed! Better start getting your info from
truthful "heros" not Flora and Carolyn. That is, if you want to know
the truth!
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In years past, it was never a policy to marry off all their young women at 13, 14, 15, etc. It was simply allowed as exceptions is certain cases. What were they? For some, to help prevent sin - the sin of fornication - for those who were more on the "wild side". For others, because they were exceptionally mature and prepared for motherhood and desired it.
Their justification for doing it? Because the Bible allows it - speaks nothing against it. A cultural and religious practice, which the Constitution protects but man's laws contradict.