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Lawyers for FLDS may sue over raid
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Weapons??? | 2:41 p.m. June 13, 2008
Even the media has said in more then one case that there were no weapons found
at the ranch. One article said that there was one weapon. It was a bow and it
could not be collected as evidence because it was registered with the sheriffs
office as a hunting weapon.So what was being used in these so called guard
towers, PEBBLES????
Re: zxcvbnm | 2:43 p.m. June 13, 2008
"Just in case the anti pologamy people don't get it.
If you don't agree with pologamy...don't practice pologamy."
Just in case you don't get it and you are planing on practicing polygamy or are already a polygamist, polygamy is STILL against the law.
If you don't believe that, enter a polygamist relationship, then call up your local law enforcement officer and self-report yourself.
You'll quickly find out that polygamy is still against the law. Ponder that while you're sitting in your jail cell wondering what happened to your friend Scottus, Scotus, Scott, hmmm, whatever his name was.
If you don't agree with pologamy...don't practice pologamy."
Just in case you don't get it and you are planing on practicing polygamy or are already a polygamist, polygamy is STILL against the law.
If you don't believe that, enter a polygamist relationship, then call up your local law enforcement officer and self-report yourself.
You'll quickly find out that polygamy is still against the law. Ponder that while you're sitting in your jail cell wondering what happened to your friend Scottus, Scotus, Scott, hmmm, whatever his name was.
commonsense | 2:49 p.m. June 13, 2008
To DC
Ive never hated a human being in my life, dont intend to start now. What I find scarey is the what and who they follow. They cant be an open society, because of the way they live. Its against the law. They have been for instance at the YFZ ranch for 4 yrs. NO one, not even the sheriff knew how many people were living on that ranch. Your assumining quite a bit DC. Ive heard NO one say stamp anyone out. You can beleive Rabbits are purple if you want, Just make sure you follow the law. Religious beleifs are protected by the constitution, but even religion can be prosecuted for breaking the law. If FLDS can prove their were no marriages under 17, they should do that, but they cant.
Ive never hated a human being in my life, dont intend to start now. What I find scarey is the what and who they follow. They cant be an open society, because of the way they live. Its against the law. They have been for instance at the YFZ ranch for 4 yrs. NO one, not even the sheriff knew how many people were living on that ranch. Your assumining quite a bit DC. Ive heard NO one say stamp anyone out. You can beleive Rabbits are purple if you want, Just make sure you follow the law. Religious beleifs are protected by the constitution, but even religion can be prosecuted for breaking the law. If FLDS can prove their were no marriages under 17, they should do that, but they cant.
Comments continue below
In-breeding | 2:54 p.m. June 13, 2008
The FLDS care more about living their polygamous lifestyle than they do about
the genetic consequences of in-breeding.
They can't or don't want to attract new blood to their family, so the only option they have for continuing their lifestyle, and their belief system, is to continue marrying first cousins, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, grandfathers, granddaughters, etc., etc.
If that results in children born with genetic defects, that's god's fault, not theirs.
They can't or don't want to attract new blood to their family, so the only option they have for continuing their lifestyle, and their belief system, is to continue marrying first cousins, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, grandfathers, granddaughters, etc., etc.
If that results in children born with genetic defects, that's god's fault, not theirs.
to DC | 2:57 p.m. June 13, 2008
"They stick to themselves because the broader society has once in every
generation gone in and tried to crush them"
No, they stick to themselves because they know what they are doing is wrong.
how many of the FLDS men did you see on t.v. or in court trying to get their kids back????
the coward men were in hiding ..just like they do out here in southern utah.
No, they stick to themselves because they know what they are doing is wrong.
how many of the FLDS men did you see on t.v. or in court trying to get their kids back????
the coward men were in hiding ..just like they do out here in southern utah.
commonsense | 3:01 p.m. June 13, 2008
ToDc
Excuse me, you dont know me, or what i beleive. Its essentially ignorant for you to describe a person youve never met or had a conversation with. Yes, ive read lots of the information myself. Ive also read website supporting flds, what would one expect flds to say? Responsible adults wouldnt allow such to happen to their children, or anyone elses. The children are innocent, all they know is this sick belief system, they are never allowed to learn about anything else. How bout Flds teach them things like science, history, and math? Little minds need stimulation besides cleaning door knobs or tending a garden. Why do you not want them to be all they could be, instead of a commoditity DC?
Excuse me, you dont know me, or what i beleive. Its essentially ignorant for you to describe a person youve never met or had a conversation with. Yes, ive read lots of the information myself. Ive also read website supporting flds, what would one expect flds to say? Responsible adults wouldnt allow such to happen to their children, or anyone elses. The children are innocent, all they know is this sick belief system, they are never allowed to learn about anything else. How bout Flds teach them things like science, history, and math? Little minds need stimulation besides cleaning door knobs or tending a garden. Why do you not want them to be all they could be, instead of a commoditity DC?
so... | 3:00 p.m. June 13, 2008
does this mean that rod parker is gonna get licensed to practice in texas so he
can actually represent one of these families?
To Amish | 3:08 p.m. June 13, 2008
Sorry, I did not mean anything by my post except that the Amish do have some
genetic disorders and that they are working with the medical community to
address them--in hopes that the FLDS would follow that example.
I have PA ancestry (Sturtzbach) and lived in PA a long time and have a good many friends and acquaintances among the various Plain Peoples. I am aware of Amish teachings to a fair degree (and also to some degree with the FLDS--the comparison, if any could be made, is that both have determined to live lives somewhat apart from the world).
My main issue was that accusing anyone who had a genetically abnormal child of being a child abuser was unkind and incorrect.
I have PA ancestry (Sturtzbach) and lived in PA a long time and have a good many friends and acquaintances among the various Plain Peoples. I am aware of Amish teachings to a fair degree (and also to some degree with the FLDS--the comparison, if any could be made, is that both have determined to live lives somewhat apart from the world).
My main issue was that accusing anyone who had a genetically abnormal child of being a child abuser was unkind and incorrect.
zxcvbnm | 3:07 p.m. June 13, 2008
Re Common sense: It makes no difference if the State of Texas bought those children a poney with a gold saddle and a set of diamond encrusted spurs....they were forceably removed from their parents and locked under armed guard in a state sanctioned facility.
Yes there were armed guards.....yes several places had controled perimiters.....the kids were kept from their parents.
The Texas courts ruled that the State had no right to remove the children from their parents.
Those children could have been placed in the Hilton with continual room service and the results would be the same......they were captives of the incompetent state officials.
wyogirl | 3:13 p.m. June 13, 2008
I don't believe the FLDS will sue - even if their lawyers want them too.
If they did, they would expose themselves - something they try to prevent. But,
I agree with others that if they do, they run the risk of exposing themselves
and their Prophet.
I'd like to recommend a great book about the arrest of Warren Jeffs called "When Men Become Gods" by Stephen Singular. He NOT a former FLDS member with a grudge. The book is very interesting and outlines the details of the events that have led up to this mess in Texas. If you want to know what Utah and Arizona did and how it was different from Texas I recommend this book.
Warren Jeffs has told his followers to NOT cooperate with authorities - to "answer them nothing." I wonder if these children could have been spared this heartache if their parents would have been more willing to cooperate with authorities? They had the documents required to allow them to interview the girls but the FLDS put up a fight - and they got one. Too bad the kids were in the middle.
I'd like to recommend a great book about the arrest of Warren Jeffs called "When Men Become Gods" by Stephen Singular. He NOT a former FLDS member with a grudge. The book is very interesting and outlines the details of the events that have led up to this mess in Texas. If you want to know what Utah and Arizona did and how it was different from Texas I recommend this book.
Warren Jeffs has told his followers to NOT cooperate with authorities - to "answer them nothing." I wonder if these children could have been spared this heartache if their parents would have been more willing to cooperate with authorities? They had the documents required to allow them to interview the girls but the FLDS put up a fight - and they got one. Too bad the kids were in the middle.
Re 1:59 | 3:14 p.m. June 13, 2008
I certainly would like to know what are you talking about?
Perhaps you are suffering from Fumarase inbreeding disease or something? I have seen all the photo's that the media have released and printed out for the public to view on the FLDS, and they all look just like the live ones we all see everyday on TV. Actually though, the media photographs of Willie Jessop did him a true favor. You people should be grateful.
Perhaps you are suffering from Fumarase inbreeding disease or something? I have seen all the photo's that the media have released and printed out for the public to view on the FLDS, and they all look just like the live ones we all see everyday on TV. Actually though, the media photographs of Willie Jessop did him a true favor. You people should be grateful.
Sylana | 3:17 p.m. June 13, 2008
I definately feel if any adult woman was being held as a minor AFTER she
presented documentation that she WAS an adult, she needs to sue. I don't
care if CPS or the State said "We think your papers are forged and
won't accept them." If they presented legal documents with legal
seals (etc) on them and the State kept saying they were minors and reporting to
the press they were minors, they need to be held accountable.
Interloper | 3:20 p.m. June 13, 2008
The comment by someone pretending to be an emergency room physician does not
ring true. As someone who was married to an emergency room doctor for years, I
am quite familiar with both the procedures and jargon. A child without any
emergency conditions would be referred to a pediatrician. If a child were
extremely malnourished, she would be admitted and given liquids and food
intravenously. A child who appeared to have severe mental health issues would
be referred to a child psychiatrist. An emergency room physician is not
qualified to provide most pediatric care or psychiatric treatment. One has to
wonder why anyone would be deceptive about such an issue.
commonsense | 3:21 p.m. June 13, 2008
Why do people who know they are wrong, always BLAME everyone but themselves?
Thats what Flds are doing. They are by no means perfect. They have done this
same thing in Arizona, Utah for decades. I dont understand defending child abuse
as religion.
celia | 3:26 p.m. June 13, 2008
yes waco should have been a leeson, another controlling self proclaimed prophet
having sex with underage girls
To Celia | 3:25 p.m. June 13, 2008
Waco was FEDERAL Government. NOT state government. Maybe you should learn what
your talking about first! Waco was entirely different. And Waco people were died
because they refused to leave, NOT because they werent given a chance to leave.
You cant even begin to compare the two.
Justin | 3:29 p.m. June 13, 2008
Did anyone notice that not only the State of Texas can be sued but also
individuals employed by the State of Texas may also be liable for their actions
depriving the flds of their civil rights. These individuals have no
governmental immunity and their personal assets can be siezed to pay for the
damages they caused.
The only way for the State of Texas to assert immunity for its unlawful actions is to say, "Yes, we broke our own laws and deprived our citizens of their civil rights but because we are the government we don't have to pay for the actual damages we caused these people." Asserting governmental immunity is not required but is available to the State at its discretion. How sad if Texas asserts immunity in these cases. Representatives of the State of Texas assured the County that the State would provide financial resources when the children were taken. They should be just as willing to use those resources to compensate those whose rights have been violated.
The only way for the State of Texas to assert immunity for its unlawful actions is to say, "Yes, we broke our own laws and deprived our citizens of their civil rights but because we are the government we don't have to pay for the actual damages we caused these people." Asserting governmental immunity is not required but is available to the State at its discretion. How sad if Texas asserts immunity in these cases. Representatives of the State of Texas assured the County that the State would provide financial resources when the children were taken. They should be just as willing to use those resources to compensate those whose rights have been violated.
commonsense | 3:30 p.m. June 13, 2008
Short Creek Should have been a lesson. If they had changed some of thier ways,
like marrying underage girls related to them, its possible none of this would of
happened
Red | 3:43 p.m. June 13, 2008
From the time of the raid onward, the FLDS can't be sure that anything they
say or do is private anywhere law enforcement had unescorted access. The FBI can
plant audio/video pickups that are practically undetectable.
And the FBI, as well as Texas law'nforcers, were wandering everywhere.
Bedrooms.
Chapel.
School.
Temple.
Big Brother could be anywhere --
And the FBI, as well as Texas law'nforcers, were wandering everywhere.
Bedrooms.
Chapel.
School.
Temple.
Big Brother could be anywhere --
RE: In-breeding | 3:43 p.m. June 13, 2008
Inbreeding? Sort of like modern Jews and lots of LDS in past generations! Lets raid them all.
Jake | 3:54 p.m. June 13, 2008
FLDS people do not have missionaries spreading their gospel like the LDS church.
The FLDS cannot allow outsiders, non-Mormons, strong pioneer MORMON bloodlines,
or men to come into their organization, and take all the young teenage girls
away from them-- This will never go over in their cultist life style. If you are
a man just go find out for yourself and try to join and see what happens-- You
will be sorry!
Spinazi | 4:02 p.m. June 13, 2008
The Jews are an example of a relatively small group with strict social/religious
sanctions against exogamy.
The average IQ of Jews is said to be 10-15 points higher than that of whites. The Rothschild�s pattern of uncles marrying nieces and marriage between first cousins has been a most effective way of concentrating wealth and power.
Jews have endeavored to keep their race pure by teaching their young that all gentiles are different in essence from Jews. They sexually mutilate their infant sons to brand them as belonging to an exclusive group.
I suppose you could say the Jews have paid a terrible price for defying nature, because they have several genetic diseases caused by recessive genes, but they would say that their covenant with God is more important and besides they practice eugenics, the much maligned effort to prevent genetic disease.
I am quite certain, however, that no one will apply the same standards of criticism to Jews as they apply to the FLDS.
The average IQ of Jews is said to be 10-15 points higher than that of whites. The Rothschild�s pattern of uncles marrying nieces and marriage between first cousins has been a most effective way of concentrating wealth and power.
Jews have endeavored to keep their race pure by teaching their young that all gentiles are different in essence from Jews. They sexually mutilate their infant sons to brand them as belonging to an exclusive group.
I suppose you could say the Jews have paid a terrible price for defying nature, because they have several genetic diseases caused by recessive genes, but they would say that their covenant with God is more important and besides they practice eugenics, the much maligned effort to prevent genetic disease.
I am quite certain, however, that no one will apply the same standards of criticism to Jews as they apply to the FLDS.
Interloper | 4:14 p.m. June 13, 2008
A reminder: The appeals courts did not rule there was NO evidence of child
abuse. It ruled that there was insufficient evidence for removing all the
children from YFZ Ranch. Texas officials are continuing to gather and analyze
evidence of child abuse.
Shipments of weapons have been traced to Short Creek for years. There is a warren of caves there that law enforcement suspects of being a hiding place for things the FLDS does not want found. Neighbors of YFZ Ranch have said that the guards who patrol the property are armed, though the weapons may have disappeared during the time law enforcement was present.
Inbreeding is the cause of Fumerase deficiency. It can also result in gender disorders, reduced intelligence and stunted growth. No one looking at the family trees of the FLDS can doubt there is a high degree of consanguinity among persons who reproduce.
Shipments of weapons have been traced to Short Creek for years. There is a warren of caves there that law enforcement suspects of being a hiding place for things the FLDS does not want found. Neighbors of YFZ Ranch have said that the guards who patrol the property are armed, though the weapons may have disappeared during the time law enforcement was present.
Inbreeding is the cause of Fumerase deficiency. It can also result in gender disorders, reduced intelligence and stunted growth. No one looking at the family trees of the FLDS can doubt there is a high degree of consanguinity among persons who reproduce.
Wild Bill | 4:17 p.m. June 13, 2008
This issue is really fun. It truly shows how the media and a few anti FLDS women
can whip people up
into a frenzy. Nancy Grace is a great leader of the
hate mongers who make up the media.
I for one am on the side of the FLDS.
How dare the CPS and State of Texas steal away children from there parents.
As far as lawsuits go. A class action suit seems the most lodical. The State acted upon false pretense
against a class of people who were damaged.
The State of Texas used the color of law to promote
an illegal act. Cival liberties were ignored.
Children basically ripped away from parents arms.
Home many times in our country have we sen the abuse
of the Goverment upon the people?
The internment of the Japanese, recent detainees in
Getmo, American Indians, to name just a few.
Please let it be known that If we fail to act in the
face of illegal acts and bigotry by any state, we have failed our founding fathers and our children.
Any person who feels that the FLDS has committed any crime please bring forth the evidence.
PUT UP OR SHUT UP.
into a frenzy. Nancy Grace is a great leader of the
hate mongers who make up the media.
I for one am on the side of the FLDS.
How dare the CPS and State of Texas steal away children from there parents.
As far as lawsuits go. A class action suit seems the most lodical. The State acted upon false pretense
against a class of people who were damaged.
The State of Texas used the color of law to promote
an illegal act. Cival liberties were ignored.
Children basically ripped away from parents arms.
Home many times in our country have we sen the abuse
of the Goverment upon the people?
The internment of the Japanese, recent detainees in
Getmo, American Indians, to name just a few.
Please let it be known that If we fail to act in the
face of illegal acts and bigotry by any state, we have failed our founding fathers and our children.
Any person who feels that the FLDS has committed any crime please bring forth the evidence.
PUT UP OR SHUT UP.
Justthefactsmaam | 4:32 p.m. June 13, 2008
commonsense | 12:52 p.m. June 13, 2008
zxbvm
Im afraid not. The issue of polygamy , the supreme court has already decided. In fact in 1998 a man practing polygamy took his case to the Supreme Court and LOST! And Lawerence vs Texas was Two ADULT males in consentual relationship. Not a 40yr old man and a 16 yr old girl.
Until the supreme court of the United States overturns polygamy, it isnt legal,
---------
False information. That was Rodney Holm. It was this decade not last decade. And it did NOT get to the Supreme Court.
It was asked to be heard by the Supreme Court.
The Supreme Court refused to hear it..
Major reason: Ruth Stubbs, Holm's plural wife, for which he was convicted of criminal sexual assault of a child, was a 16-year old minor according to her state.
As of yes, SCOTUS has NEVER ruled (since Lawrence vs Texas) of ONLY ADULTS being criminally prosecuted for polygyny
Thanks to the FLDS raid, we may soon get that test.
Polygynists everywhere are praying for it.
commonsense | 4:33 p.m. June 13, 2008
To Cosmo: I was and am still against Abortion. I protested Abortion,just like
millions of other people did. THe Supreme Court of the United States ruled in
favor of Abortion, NOT the people. Do i still protest it, YES i do, just not in
the same manner. I have many days stood outside Abortion (planned parenthoods
clinics) but prayed, not yelled or screamed. Just like i pray for all Children,
including FLDS. To be honest, I dont care what the law decides about the
"adults" , they knew better. The Children are the ones who have to
suffer, have to bear perhaps a genetic disorder because of unwise decisions of
parents. Boys or Girls should NEVER be forced into sexual abuse, I dont care
what the reason!
Justthefactsmaam | 4:39 p.m. June 13, 2008
Re: zxcvbnm | 2:43 p.m. June 13, 2008
"Just in case the anti pologamy people don't get it.
If you don't agree with pologamy...don't practice pologamy."
Just in case you don't get it and you are planing on practicing polygamy or are already a polygamist, polygamy is STILL against the law.
If you don't believe that, enter a polygamist relationship, then call up your local law enforcement officer and self-report yourself.
You'll quickly find out that polygamy is still against the law. Ponder that while you're sitting in your jail cell wondering what happened to your friend Scottus, Scotus, Scott, hmmm, whatever his name was.
-----------
You're nuts. Bigamy is against the law.
Polygynous co-habitation is not.
If I called my Chicago cops and told them that I lived with 3 women that I wasn't legally married to but I called them my wives, they'd
LAUGH THEIR ARSES OFF
and tell me that they got millions on the South Side of Chicago doing the same thing calling them baby-mamas.
And then tell me God Bless and have a good night and call us if you've got an actual crime to report.
PUT-UP-OR-SHUT-UP | 4:39 p.m. June 13, 2008
Hey wild Bill,
I believe you are lying about not being FLDS, because I know that the favorite words of FLDS men sex abusers are the words... PUT UP AND SHUT UP! hummmmm.. I think you are a fraud.
Also, you are always picking at ANTI-X-FLDS women. hummmmm... for some reason that says it all about you!
I believe you are lying about not being FLDS, because I know that the favorite words of FLDS men sex abusers are the words... PUT UP AND SHUT UP! hummmmm.. I think you are a fraud.
Also, you are always picking at ANTI-X-FLDS women. hummmmm... for some reason that says it all about you!
Oklahoma Mormon | 4:43 p.m. June 13, 2008
I think that the FLDS is correct in suing the State of Texas for a stupid and
ill conceived travesty of justice. I wish them all the luck in the world.
Wild Bill | 4:42 p.m. June 13, 2008
Some of the Evidence has been presented already, a very small amount. There are
6 girls 16 right now that have children or are pregnant, all recorded as wives
on the bishops list. So now you are saying the Bishops list is lying? Im on the
side of Truth and Justice, and so far, Flds has done nothing but hide, detour
with mass public propaghanda!
Zxcv, The authorities had warrants for everything they searched. The SCOT never said there wasnt abuse. In fact, they left it up to Judge Walther to decided the plan needed to know where all these children are, and to moniter them. If you havent read the order, do so.
Zxcv, The authorities had warrants for everything they searched. The SCOT never said there wasnt abuse. In fact, they left it up to Judge Walther to decided the plan needed to know where all these children are, and to moniter them. If you havent read the order, do so.
Let this wrong, be for your good | 4:49 p.m. June 13, 2008
What the Texans did to you FLDS was wrong. What you do to your own children is
wrong. What about kicking young male teens out to make the numbers right for
you to live polygamy?
If you let this trauma change your society for the better, you will be the winners.
If you let this trauma change your society for the better, you will be the winners.
commonsense | 5:29 p.m. June 13, 2008
Trauma? You think its not trauma for an underage girl to be thrown in a marriage
and sexual relationship without any information? These people or women dont
teach their children anything about sex. Arranged marriage is wrong, especially
when there is NO marriage license. These girls arent wives by law. Sexual
assault of minor has been against the law before the marriage age was every
changed of and underage boy or girl.
Commonsense | 5:32 p.m. June 13, 2008
People, (gentiles) can convert to Judism, its done all the time. They arent a
closed society. And jews marry outside their faith also.
Thoroughbreds | 5:56 p.m. June 13, 2008
Most all religions have members who have married outside their own faith, even
LDS . However, YOU WILL NEVER FIND THAT TO BE SO WITH FLDS. They have to keep
their Mormon blood pure without spot. That is why they inbreed.
commonsense | 6:07 p.m. June 13, 2008
Evidently it isnt pure or they wouldnt have so many genetic defects. I would
however be interested in how the AG's office took the visit from Wilie
Jessop. And where's Merrill? He's disappeared!
commonsense | 6:12 p.m. June 13, 2008
Bigotry? What about Bigotry of People of color? People who are Hispanic, or
Asian.? Its Okay for Flds to be bigoted against these races? Why arent you
fighting for them? INstead your defending Bigots! We all bleed the same color,
RED! We are all Flesh and blood. Yet you take up a cause for a whole group of
people who call people of color "evil".
Gal50 | 6:16 p.m. June 13, 2008
Texas had a search warrant and there was information stored in the temple
regarding illegal activity. It seems the FLDS again wants to use religious
rights to hide evidence of illegal activity.
The FLDS needs to make a choice. Either continue on with the illegal activity and expect outsiders to search the entire premises or give up the illegal activity and maintain the premises as you wish. There is no way Texas will be held responsible for the costs of repairing the door or replacing the temple, so you can forget that battle. You may believe the temple is useless, but reality is that it isn't.
The damage to homes is another story. As it has been printed in the press, the homes were made accessible, so there should be no damage. Most people do not sue over damage caused by search warrants. There was illegal activity taking place in many of the homes according to the bishop's records and information related to criminal activity was obtained through the searches of the homes. I would like to believe that anyone who causes damage during a search in which the people willingly provided access would be liable.
The FLDS needs to make a choice. Either continue on with the illegal activity and expect outsiders to search the entire premises or give up the illegal activity and maintain the premises as you wish. There is no way Texas will be held responsible for the costs of repairing the door or replacing the temple, so you can forget that battle. You may believe the temple is useless, but reality is that it isn't.
The damage to homes is another story. As it has been printed in the press, the homes were made accessible, so there should be no damage. Most people do not sue over damage caused by search warrants. There was illegal activity taking place in many of the homes according to the bishop's records and information related to criminal activity was obtained through the searches of the homes. I would like to believe that anyone who causes damage during a search in which the people willingly provided access would be liable.
What do... | 7:06 p.m. June 13, 2008
you expect? Aren't we a country of law suits etc?
Sorry Im Dyslexic | 8:28 p.m. June 13, 2008
Where is the evidence that Flora, Carolyn and Elissa are lying????
I keep hearing that CPS had no evidence to support taking the kids.
But I don't see anybody showing the evidence that Flora, Carolyn and Elissa are lying.
I think it was proven in court that Elissa was telling the truth. And I have never seen any evidence that Flora & Carolyn have lied in any way.
It is very sad that so many completly overlook the harm that has been done to the young girls. Or at least let the state and do their jobs to find the evidence either for them or against them.
If a nursing home is accused of abusing the elderly, does the state wait until after the trial to take the elderly out of the nursing home???
No, they take them out for their protection then the nursing home has a right to a trial.
And by the way, Dr of the Gov, what happened to privacy laws?? And why does the Gov go to see you in the emergancy room??
I keep hearing that CPS had no evidence to support taking the kids.
But I don't see anybody showing the evidence that Flora, Carolyn and Elissa are lying.
I think it was proven in court that Elissa was telling the truth. And I have never seen any evidence that Flora & Carolyn have lied in any way.
It is very sad that so many completly overlook the harm that has been done to the young girls. Or at least let the state and do their jobs to find the evidence either for them or against them.
If a nursing home is accused of abusing the elderly, does the state wait until after the trial to take the elderly out of the nursing home???
No, they take them out for their protection then the nursing home has a right to a trial.
And by the way, Dr of the Gov, what happened to privacy laws?? And why does the Gov go to see you in the emergancy room??
Only Bigotry abounds here.... | 8:29 p.m. June 13, 2008
This thread is disgusting with the load of bigots it carries. Anti-FLDS,
Anti-Religion, Anti-Freedom, Anti-family.
Grow up.
Grow up.
Mr. Parker, Esq. | 8:34 p.m. June 13, 2008
Is that the sweet smell of money on your breathe? Of course it's not the
money, it's the principle . We aaaaalllllllll know that. Or is it
principal?
zxcvbnm | 8:56 p.m. June 13, 2008
Ok Dyslexic. Call these lies if you desire.I prefer sensationalizing for the sake of aquireing an audience.
Carolyn was married at the for 18 years to a jerk then left. She didn't "Escape" she simply left and took her children with her. The lost boys she refered to were predominately 18 year old men...
Flora has complained ad nauseum about her twin sister being held against her will. The State questioned Floras sister and the woman chose to stay with her parents.
Elisa said yes to marraige.....went to her minister for counseling numerous times over a two year period and was finally released from the marraige after an affair with a former meth addict.
With a 200 word limit it is hard to discuss the issues in debth..I will only say there is another side to the story and none of these women has portrayed their involvement with the FLDS in an objective manner.....Sex sells.......and they sold the sensational headlines.
Anonymous | 8:56 p.m. June 13, 2008
This is ridiculous. Yes, the state was out of line. But last time I checked,
Polygamy is a Federal Offense. The only reason the LDS leaders abandoned it so
many years ago was the fear of the government confiscating all of their
property. It is ILLEGAL.
Texas' problem was they tried to stop them the wrong way. They don't have to find nit-picky issues to deal with. Take them where it hurts and put the leaders away!
That said, Polygamy being a federal offense is, in my opinion, not something the government should have decided in the first place. Let them practice their religion how they want to.
Some how they managed to run it just fine for over 100 years until Warren Jeffs took to the head. No doubt he was stirring things up the wrong way and he's being convicted for actual crimes he's convicted. Leave them alone and let them do their thing.
Texas' problem was they tried to stop them the wrong way. They don't have to find nit-picky issues to deal with. Take them where it hurts and put the leaders away!
That said, Polygamy being a federal offense is, in my opinion, not something the government should have decided in the first place. Let them practice their religion how they want to.
Some how they managed to run it just fine for over 100 years until Warren Jeffs took to the head. No doubt he was stirring things up the wrong way and he's being convicted for actual crimes he's convicted. Leave them alone and let them do their thing.
Where's The Proof!!?? | 9:07 p.m. June 13, 2008
Could someone please point out solid proof for even one of these allegations.
Please note that for the allegations to be considered significant, the abuses
need to be happening at a much higher rate than in normal society.
* The FLDS have a guard tower. (Still haven't seen a photo)
* The FLDS live polygamy. (Legally they are only married to the first woman. So technically they cheat on their wife, and that IS legal.)
* The FLDS beat their children. (I bet it's more like they spank a kid now and then)
* The FLDS have an extremely high percentage of baby deaths. (Apparantley a mound of dirt over a grave means it is a baby grave. That's according to Flora Jessop. Please, get some real evidence Flora)
* There is a much higher rate of teen pregnancy in the FLDS. (The Texas raid proved the rate to be lower)
* The FLDS beat their children (X-Rays proved the broken bones were not from abuse, and the percentage of broken bones were actually lower than in normal American society)
* The FLDS milk the welfare system. (Texas investigated, found this isn't true)
Had more, Out of Space!
* The FLDS have a guard tower. (Still haven't seen a photo)
* The FLDS live polygamy. (Legally they are only married to the first woman. So technically they cheat on their wife, and that IS legal.)
* The FLDS beat their children. (I bet it's more like they spank a kid now and then)
* The FLDS have an extremely high percentage of baby deaths. (Apparantley a mound of dirt over a grave means it is a baby grave. That's according to Flora Jessop. Please, get some real evidence Flora)
* There is a much higher rate of teen pregnancy in the FLDS. (The Texas raid proved the rate to be lower)
* The FLDS beat their children (X-Rays proved the broken bones were not from abuse, and the percentage of broken bones were actually lower than in normal American society)
* The FLDS milk the welfare system. (Texas investigated, found this isn't true)
Had more, Out of Space!
DC | 9:19 p.m. June 13, 2008
To Sorry Im Dyslexic
No need to apologize or be ashamed of your dyslexia; we understand and have made allowances for the several lexical errors in your post -- no decent person would hold that against you. You ask where is the evidence that the three disaffected FLDS members you refer to are lying. Certainly some things those women have said have been proven true (the circumstances of Elissa Wall's marriage, for example). Much of what they have said has been strongly challenged, and for those of us who do not have an ax to grind, there is no particular reason to believe them rather than those who contradict them until we have some evidence other than the allegations and counter-allegations of both sides. I certainly don't think that harm to young girls should be overlooked -- when the CPS comes forth with evidence of that harm (which I think they will in some cases), I will strongly support action against the perpetrators. Your nursing home case is identical -- the state doesn't have to have a criminal trial before it removes the elderly, but it does have to provide evidence of potential harm to a court.
No need to apologize or be ashamed of your dyslexia; we understand and have made allowances for the several lexical errors in your post -- no decent person would hold that against you. You ask where is the evidence that the three disaffected FLDS members you refer to are lying. Certainly some things those women have said have been proven true (the circumstances of Elissa Wall's marriage, for example). Much of what they have said has been strongly challenged, and for those of us who do not have an ax to grind, there is no particular reason to believe them rather than those who contradict them until we have some evidence other than the allegations and counter-allegations of both sides. I certainly don't think that harm to young girls should be overlooked -- when the CPS comes forth with evidence of that harm (which I think they will in some cases), I will strongly support action against the perpetrators. Your nursing home case is identical -- the state doesn't have to have a criminal trial before it removes the elderly, but it does have to provide evidence of potential harm to a court.
Right On Go for it FLDS | 9:34 p.m. June 13, 2008
Hope they rake the texas gulag over the coals. CPS et al deserve to go down as
a sorry shameful memory and a blemish on all things decent. No billions will be
enough for the false arrests, kidnapping at gunpoint, misuse of warrants,
holding adult women as children. Yes indeed, the day texas pays out will be a
bright day for Americans everywhere.
Matt Connelly | 9:39 p.m. June 13, 2008
Good. Glad to see the FLDS will sue. And they should. I've never seen such
a shocking violation of due process in all my years. The Texas judge who ordered
the removal of the children should be removed from the bench and disbarred.
To DC and zxcvbnm | 10:05 p.m. June 13, 2008
You still didn't show any proof. Sounded like it was all hearsay.
I prefer to error on the side of caution. the fdls did get their day in court. they got their kids back didnt they. Sounds like due process to me.
And Im sorry but 14 year old girls are not old enough to make the decision to marry.
And to: Where's The Proof!!?? Google FDLS & look for the site that is not affilated with the fdls and see a hand written copy of the document that each of head of household had to list all members of their family and their relationship. And many had more than one wife listed. (And Im sure the next comment will be that they are forgeries) What ever.
I prefer to error on the side of caution. the fdls did get their day in court. they got their kids back didnt they. Sounds like due process to me.
And Im sorry but 14 year old girls are not old enough to make the decision to marry.
And to: Where's The Proof!!?? Google FDLS & look for the site that is not affilated with the fdls and see a hand written copy of the document that each of head of household had to list all members of their family and their relationship. And many had more than one wife listed. (And Im sure the next comment will be that they are forgeries) What ever.
Doug in La. | 10:41 p.m. June 13, 2008
The FLDS broke the law of the U.S.Government. Now its time to pay up.
The Might Call Them A Wife | 10:49 p.m. June 13, 2008
The FLDS might call them a wife, but legally they are not married, so legally
they are mistresses, or girlfriends, or lovers, or whatever. To legally be a
wife, you have to have a marriage license. This is why the government cannot be
prosecuted for polygamy.
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