Deseret News | Utah liquor-control panel urged to change private-club rules

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Utah liquor-control panel urged to change private-club rules

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hmmm | 2:16 p.m. June 12, 2008

These liquor laws do not keep anyone from drinking any less. Infact, I propose that it may even have an opposite effect. Trying to control others only makes them want to rebel more.Therefore this law (in my opinion) could be contributing to the problem even more. SLC is a very extreme polarized place to live. By implying that drinking is a bad thing is another way of saying only freaks drink..if you step away and set yourself apart from others while looking down your noses at them its not going to solve anything..just feed into the "us and them concept". People will drink wether or not these restricted laws are in place..again in my opinion the laws don't solve any problems but just make everyone tense and grumpy (the above comments display this).

Greg | 2:33 p.m. June 12, 2008

Lose the rediculous private-club law. Just because you pay 10% (or are supposed to) for your club doesn't entitle you to charge me $10 for mine.

RE: Chris Plummer | 2:49 p.m. June 12, 2008

I don't know why all these people keep getting on here talking about how Mormon's don't know what they are talking about because we don't participate in indulging ourselves. I happen to know 25-30 people who never stop at a few beers when going out. A forth of them have DUI's, and another half drive drunk all the time and are lucky enough to not get caught. MOST people who drink in clubs drink enough to be legally intoxicated. I would be willing to bet just from reading your post that you don't stop at a few, and get "sauced" up on a reletively regular basis, otherwise you wouldn't care about this article. Drinking alcohol and the effects is has is not as innocent as everyone who drinks tries to make it sound, so quit kidding yourself and all of us. And just because it is socially accepted does not excuse the fact that it is a disease, that does more harm on society than it does good. You want to talk about ignorance of the facts, try burying your daughter because of a drunk driver and and come back and talk about who has experienced what...

Comments continue below

The point that is missed | 3:21 p.m. June 12, 2008

by those who don't want the laws changed:

This law does nothing - zero, zip, nada - to limit drinking. It just insures that everyone who wants to have a drink when not having dinner pays an extra $5 tax per year to the state. (And as long as I order some chips and salsa I can drink all I want, as long as I can afford it, and never have to pay a membership fee.)

Essentially, it's a $5 per year tax on almost everyone who isn't a Mormon.

While I appreciate that I'm not charged more than that, it's really a pointless law. Further, the state spends more money administering the law than it collects - it's actually damaging to the state budget. Collecting the fees and administering the law costs nearly half a million dollars a year more than is collected. As a fiscal Conservative, I call that ... stupid!

fr1nk | 3:25 p.m. June 12, 2008

The point is that the private club law does nothing but cause strife. Why cause for sticking up for a law that does nothing?

RE: RE: Chris Plummer | 3:34 p.m. June 12, 2008

Thats nice that you know a bunch of drunks, but that certainly doesn't mean everyone is a drunk that drinks. And is also doesn't mean that I drink and drive. Your blanket statements are typical of the Utah mentality to lump people into categories because of the lack of diversity in your state.

RE: RE: RE: Chris Plummer | 3:53 p.m. June 12, 2008

Funny that you judge Utah as a society that makes blanket statements and putting people into categories, while making that statement you are doing the exact thing you are arguing agaisnt. Oh the hyposcrisy. Stop assuming you know more than a Mormon just because you choose to poison your body. We are well aware of what people in the world do, we just choose not to become fall into line with societies idea of whats normal to fit into the world. We do what we think is right, for ourselves, and for our families, that does not include indulging ourselves at the nearest drinking hole.

Anonymous | 4:05 p.m. June 12, 2008

Just like roe v wade, every so often some wacky right-wingers start screaming for prohibition - and every time it is shot down.

RE: RE: RE: RE: Chris Plummer | 4:11 p.m. June 12, 2008

Yes very ironic that a blanket statement can be made about a blanket statement. You said it yourself:
"We do what we think is right, for ourselves, and for our families, that does not include indulging ourselves at the nearest drinking hole."
So don't try and do what you think is right for myself or my family... you have your hands full.

RE: RE: RE: RE: Chris Plummer | 4:14 p.m. June 12, 2008

To correct another blanket statement, the $5 tax isn't only on those who aren't Mormon. There are some people who pay it who do so far enough away from their home that no one is likely to recognize their car, and those people aren't all non-Mormon.

RE:RE: RE: RE: RE: Chris Plummer | 4:26 p.m. June 12, 2008

Doing what is right for myself and my family includes maintaining a community that is worth living in. There are plenty of places that are very nearby that don't have problems taking your money and getting you wasted. Stop complaining that Utah isn't another L.A. or Chicago or anything other city, and go there if it is so much better. I, and the majority of people here happen to like the way things are in Utah. If you don't like it here, leave, and if you won't leave, then shut up.

RE:RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Chris PLu | 4:41 p.m. June 12, 2008

The forum is discussing the Private Club law... which really is a annoyance, it certainly doesn't stop people from drinking. So doing away with this law isn't going to make SLC a Chicago or LA. Maybe 5 million more people would. the Private Club law really needs to go, it is making your drinking neighbors mad. But I'm guessing you are that guy that doesn't mind making your neighbors upset.

RE^5: Chris Plummer | 4:46 p.m. June 12, 2008

Wow you have some anger issues there, don't ya?

It always comes down to when you can't argue for something other than I don't like seeing others do it, you always revert to "if you don't like it, leave".

That's not exactly how differences get addressed and solved.

Mormons in Nevada | 4:47 p.m. June 12, 2008

I do not see what the deal is. I know plenty of Mormons (LDS, wherever they want to call themselves) that drink and gamble. Are Mormons in Utah more sanctimonious than the ones here? Mormons in Las Vegas seem to change their attitude towards drinking and gambling.

Anonymous | 5:02 p.m. June 12, 2008

Why do people think leaving is not reasonalbe option?

It is very reasonable, there are many places in the world to live.

The mormons founded this one so they could live they way they wanted to live.

And while mormons are the majority, and that is the forseeable future, they will make laws that reflect their values.

This will not change in the forseeble future

Many people come here because of that.

So is it reasonable to leave, so you can live in a place that reflects your values? YES.

Many non-mormons have tried to change the laws here, but the found they might as well have banged their head against a wall.

Sometimes it is just better to leave.

Hmmm | 5:30 p.m. June 12, 2008

Anonymous , You conveniently forget that Utah is in fact a part of the United States. In fact, your church sold it's soul (polygamy) to become a part of the United States.

To place do-nothing laws in the way of Utah's citizens is vindictive, petty and shows a complete lack of respect.

Anonymous | 5:42 p.m. June 12, 2008

Good one, Hmmmm!

Anonymous | 5:59 p.m. June 12, 2008

IF utah is part the united states, that means you are free to move about.

Re: Anonymous | 6:13 p.m. June 12, 2008

Remember that "like it or leave" comment next time you see a gay couple cannoodle in the movie theater or kissing in the park.

If you don't like seeing it you better just leave without making a comment.

ItsOnlySonia | 6:21 p.m. June 12, 2008

Doesn't The Church tm have better things to do like building multi-billion dollar mall or something?

Chris Plummer | 7:12 p.m. June 12, 2008

the like it or leave attitude happens a lot on this board. My ancestors moved to Utah as well. So I have every right to be here. And I want things to change. So I will continue to do what I can (and I have 7 other brothers and sisters with the same ideas) to change things for me and my family/friends in this state.
I would thing you don't' have as much in common with the Mormon founders of this state as you would think. And there were certainly NOn-Mormons who have contributed greatly to the successes of Utah. Mormons account for somewhere in the neighborhood of 50% of the state. Do you realize how sad Utah would be if that other 40-50% packed their bags and left. get real. And in 20 years when the table is turned, I'll be happy to let you stay.

Dave | 7:33 p.m. June 12, 2008

to Rich (way abv),
Read my comments again.
In NO way did I infer that I represent the MAJORITY, I said I was part of the Majority that make up the state. Still holding to my guns that if someone thinks and starts broadcasting that this state is messed up because of the laws: then they are free to leave. I would rather have it this way. I live with a lot of people that do things I don't agree with, Thank you no smoking laws. I still hold to my guns, that IN NO WAY SHOULD WE GIVE GROUND JUST TO PLEASE PEOPLE. If they don't want to hold a convention here, then go elsewhere...
I am glad that liquor isn't sold in stores. My kids may get a hold of a drink when they are older, but they are going to have to do quite a bit to get it.
I will be right there to try and diswayed them from trying to get it.

I am not telling

Hmmm | 7:47 p.m. June 12, 2008

Dave, If liquor is sold in the stores or the equivelant on the DMV (like it is now), underage purchase is illegal. In California when we were kids we didn't get it from the stores we got it from someone with an older brother.

If you have not experienced the indignity of complying with the laws here you should. It is insulting, demeaning and downright mean-spirited. You are treating good people as second class.

Susan | 8:08 p.m. June 12, 2008

Several of the comments state that they want to know who wouldn't come to Utah because of overly restrictive liquor laws. I'm raising my hand. I have family that live in Utah, and when I visit, it's usually for just a couple of days at a time. If there were less-strict drinking laws, at least I could break the monotony. I also might find a reason to venture out in to the city, or to explore other areas of the state. For me, part of a nice vacation is being able to have a glass of wine with dinner, or a mixed drink later in the evening, along with good conversation. And like others have said, one drink doesn't turn me into a stark, raving drunk. Believe it or not, it's quite possible to enjoy alcohol responsibly, without ill effects.

Responsible Drinker | 11:03 p.m. June 12, 2008

Maybe we should tax diapers as much as we tax alcohol and cigarettes. Diapers are filling our landfills and they take 500 to 600 years to decompose. We should make people fill out the same forms and pay the same fees to buy them as we do to get into a private club. Since they do more harm to our environment.

With all of those extra tax dollars just think what we could do to this state. We might even get better schools out of it.

Utah Crackers | 12:16 a.m. June 13, 2008

What century do you folks live in? Some of the posts on here sound like they were made in Afghanistan. I pity non-Mormons who have to live among in Utahstan.

RE: Susan | 8:04 a.m. June 13, 2008

I find it a little pathetic to read that someone has problems visiting their family in Utah because they believe they can't go out and get smashed at the bar. For you information, alcohol is sold at every restraunt in the city, you can have a glass of wine or a mixed drink anywhere you go. It goes to show that some of these people out there let drinking make the decisions for what the will or won't do (even if ther decision is uneducated). Utah is a beautiful place, a safe place where I feel comfortable walking down the street wherever I want. The people that choose to live here with Utah's quirky laws help make it that way. I would be willing to bet the way of life here helps detract a lot of people that aren't necessarily welcome (drug dealers, gang members, etc). Not to say there aren't any of those in Utah, but there are far less than most larger cities. We want to preserve our cleaner and safer society, and aren't interested in conforming to how the rest of the world does it. I've seen a lot of places, I'd much rather be here!

Re: RE: Susan | 5:26 p.m. June 13, 2008

Your credability was lost in your first sentence. They never said anything about getting "smashed". You made a quantum illlogical leap.

It seems that the proponents of these silly laws usually resort to distortion, exaggeration and outright lies to "prove" their point.

RE: RE: RE: Susan | 2:22 p.m. June 16, 2008

The word "smashed" may be an exaggeration (although many people DO regularly get smashed at bars), but the point is still there. Replace "smashed" with "drink" and my point is still "proved". Come back when you have a real arguement rather than getting caught up on a word choice.

Bar Tndr | 8:03 p.m. July 6, 2008

These comments are so amusing! If everyone could stop being angry long enough to spell check, and use some punctuation, it would be much more comical! I am a Bar tender in Utah. Let me tell you, I spend more time trying to explain our warped laws, than I do serving beer! Oh yeah, in the southern part of the state, it is even worse, we are only allowed tavern licenses! Because the city thinks it needs even more control than the state has already mandated! This is such a joke! Just let us have a normal bar with normal alcohol! The state liquor store, is making a killing! We just want a tiny share of their fortune! Give us a chance to make a living too! PLEASE!!!!

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