Comments about ‘Beware of FLDS enforcers, Texas told’

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Published: Wednesday, June 11 2008 12:06 a.m. MDT

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Anonymous

Predictable Critic, you don't know jack. I know that Jeffs was rightfully convicted. I'm referring to the violations of the Texas group's civil rights. Improve your reading comprehension skills. You can also give your BS speech to innocent people who have been in prison for years because they were framed or wrongfully convicted. Try telling them that you "know better".

Paul

I never said that I wasn't outraged by Jeffs. I'm sticking to the issue. These people in Texas weren't indicted or convicted of any crimes. Your suspicions don't equal evidence. I never claimed to know everything, but I know that you don't(or shouldn't) convict people without proof. It's been two to three months! Enough is enough.

Paul

I was Anonymous in the other post.

I'll make this short. These people have been harassed for almost three months. The Texas Supreme Court ruled that the kidnapping was not justified due to the lack of evidence. Now, show me one conviction or indictment of one man at this ranch. Show me one arrest. You can *claim* that crimes took place. You can *claim* that there must be something. Your claims mean nothing without facts to back them. It's not up to the people to prove their innocence. You and the state must prove their guilt. That's how it works here. Don't like it? Move to China.

R

//It is common knowledge that these girls are married off WELL before they're 18. //

"Common knowledge" has a way of being horribly wrong. CPS hasn't produced enough evidence for any judge other than Barbara Walther to back them up. Why should anyone else buy their claims?

And to the people (including the Texas CPS) who say or imply that there is evidence the public isn't seeing and that said evidence could be decisive: what is that evidence? This is a child welfare case, not some top-secret military project. If you have smoking guns, go public.

Anonymous

They CAN'T make that evidence public. It's obviously so secret that they can't even show it to the other judges.

jt

i think noone has anything to worry about as the FLDS men are just child molesters not killers. which in my book is just as bad.

RS

I find it very interesting that everyone is wanting to know why there are no prosecutions yet. Did anyone ever think about all the documentation that must be analyzed and sorted through in order to determine even what to go after? It is going to be some time before an official indictment comes through because Law Enforcement has only one shot (no pun intended) to get it before the grand jury.

So that being said, all of the speculation that is going on as to what law enforcement is doing or what CPS did is purely that, speculation because you do not know all of the details about the investigation both on the criminal and civil side.

Would you please stop referring to CPS imprisoning the mother's and children...the agency is not law enforcement, they are civil.

You also do not know the level of cooperation that was given or not given during the initial process.

When parents do not cooperate, CPS has no choice but to remove the children and seek court intervention to gain cooperation, such that it is at this time.

Anonymous

RS,

The Texas State Supreme Court has ruled that the CPS had no justification to remove those children. They didn't rule that paperwork takes time. They ruled that the CPS grossly violated Texas law. And the Texas Third Court of Appeals ruled that the CPS's case was "legally and factually insufficient."

WE aren't the ones speculating. The speculation is coming entirely from those of you who refuse to accept the multiple court rulings that no evidence exists.

Beyond that, in these comments I'm reading claims of torture, rape, false imprisonment, welfare fraud, and serious gross weapons violations. (machine guns, etc) It doesn't take 2+ months to FILE charges for those offenses. When police suspect such crimes, they arrest you on the spot, even if no charges are ever filed.

How would you define cooperation? They stood there and watched while their children were taken. Are they now criminals because they didn't offer coffee to heavily armed kidnappers? If you think kidnapping is the best way to deal with social outcasts, then you're a much bigger threat to society than any fringe religion.

And prisoners are prisoners, whether the person holding them is a cop or a bartender.

Paul

RS, we know that CPS violated these people's civil rights. We don't have to speculate. They had no right to take those kids. Don't take my word for it. Ask the Texas Supreme Court.

The Real Emma

Go to the hospital to have your fourth baby daughter, and look up this case, it goes on and on..DRAMA...I am glad that someone used my name earlier, because this is about what I would have said."GOSSIP"! First of all, the FLDS is a religious church, I very much doubt that they intend to harm anyone, Willie Jessop looks like my Baptist pastor, HA!, I don't think he is a horrible evil man. Watching this from Illinois, I totally get the feeling that the Sheriff, Judge, and all the State Officials in this case, are just playing their game to make false allegations against the FLDS people. I'm sure of it that these people have been hurt, children torn away, their mothers running all over the State of Texas to be able to even see them. The man who posted the Judge's home information was not even FLDS. Has anything bad happened yet? No. Bad things HAVE happened to those poor women who had no rights, guns were pointed in their faces, they and their children were called liars, forced to move from their homes? These so called officials are STILL harrassing the FLDS to cover THEIR mistakes.

Paul

Emma, that's why the people must file suits to stop the persecution. It won't stop unless and until they do. That much is obvious. CPS has a personal vendetta that won't stop on its own.

Emma

Paul, I could not agree with you more, CPS does have a personal vendetta, that will not stop on it's own. It's truely so sad that so many innocent people had to suffer because of this, these people must file suits to really put an end to persecution.

R

//Did anyone ever think about all the documentation that must be analyzed and sorted through in order to determine even what to go after?//

So they don't know what crimes they want to go after, but they know they want to go after something.

My prediction is that since they've got so much egg on their faces after the statutory rape nonsense didn't pan out, they'll go for the low-hanging fruit of bigamy charges to distract from their failure.

Grandpa Phil

WRONG RS, You said, "When parents do not cooperate, CPS has choice but to remove the children.....". CPS had the LAW to regulate what they could and could not do and they violated Texas law in taking all of the children (and some adults) without attempting to find a less drastic alternative to removing them. CPS is required by law to FIRST seek a means of keeping the children in place (that could have been done by removing the males from the ranch) and then, of some abuse is found and removal is the only move left, they had to PROVE their case before a judge within 14 days in order to keep those children longer than 14 days. CPS made NO attempt to find a less drastic action than total removal of all children and then was unable to prove ANY abuse had been committed during the mandatory 14-day hearing. Judge Walther ruled for permanent removal in contradiction to the evidence presented at the 14 day hearing. That is what prompted the Appellate Court to overturn the order. That si what prompted the Supreme Court to uphold the Appellate Courts decision. CPS violate Texas law at every step.

Grandpa Phil

Paul, R, and The Real Emma are my new friends. Well said, all three of you. It is nice to see real Americans finally with a good head on their shoulders who can see things for how they really are. I raised my hand a long time ago and swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic. It is sad that there are domestic enemies to the Constitution but, there are also those who would defend it against such tyrannical abuses such as we have seen in Texas lately. Thank the Lord for Appellate Courts and Supreme Courts who do their jobs even when the public is against it.

BT

Here is how it works according to public opinion. if CPS does remove, they are home wreckers. If CPS does not remove, they are leaving children in danger. i would love to see public opinion if the state just left these children there. I would also love to see anyone of you actually work a case. You have no idea what these people actually do. Their lives are devoted to children and families. The decisions they make determine if a child is safe from abuse, or even if a child dies. You can sit in your ideal world and judge while some people actually have to do the real work.
Also, just a note, the supreme court was not in aggrement on the latest decision. Also, they did find enough proof to allow the state to monitor the children on an on-going basis and to require the parents participate in services. Why do you think that is? I can't wait for the criminal cases!

To Janet:

Who was that leader who god told would never die? Let me remeber... Uncle Roy was it? How is he doing these days? Oh, he is dead? But, but.. god said.....

Grandpa Phil

BT, I am VERY familiar with how CPS works and what they do for and TO children. My wife and I were foster parents to emergency teenage girls for 5 years in NC. In 5 years we had over two hundred teenage foster daughters. We worked with CPS on a daily basis so don't go assuming that none of us know what CPS actually does. We got so tired of watching the abuses they caused that we made a complaint regarding the unnecessary removal of some of those girls from their homes. The next thing we knew, we were being investigated for neglect of our infant daughter because "someone" complained that my wife was not producing enough breastmilk to properly nourish her. Yoou read that right. We had to take our daughter to the Dept of Social Services to get a physical on her so they would not take her away from us. The purpose of that was to intimidate us to make us shut up. We left foster care in order to protect our own children from CPS. The Supreme Court found no such proof because CPS presented NONE to the Court. The Court only allowed them to follow-up.

Grandpa Phil

Regarding the criminal cases, what I can't wait for is the Defense attornies getting their hands on that so-called search warrant that the Sheriff and CPS used to take all that "evidence" from all of those residences. All CPS has is the fruit of the forbidden tree - tainted evidence because they abused their authority in taking "evidence" from every house when the warrant did not include every house. It will still take a court order to allow the release of that "evidence" to even be used in a criminal action. Any prosecuting attorney worth his lisense wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot cattle prod. I get the feeling that the criminal cases will dissolve like the abuse cases did - due to lack of evidence. If they find that someone did do something illegal, I will be at the front of the pack yelling for his crucifiction; however, all we have heard so far is CPS lying and allegations turning into nothing but smoke and mirrors.

Grandpa

NC and Texas are very different states with VERY different systems. You can't think you know how texas CPS works due to your expierences. In you case, sounds like someone made a report, it was investigated, you were found to be good parents and the state let you be. That, Grandpa, is their job. I'm truly sorry you had a false alligation. And, i'm glad there are foster parents who advocate for children. All states need more who will. It's not CPSs fault someone made a false alligation. And, why did the court allow CPS to follow up, provide services and continue investigations if there is no proof? Read what the 2 decenting judges said. And, by the way, CPS does NOT need a search warrent in Texas. and CPS took NO evidence.

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